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News & ArtsMonday, March 28, 2011
Homo This Is Not a Road We Want to Go Down
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 2:52 PM
Gay and lesbian activists stage a protest outside the home of the Canadian florists who refused to provide flowers for a same-sex couple's wedding.
Not cool.
These florists, presumably, have a flower shop somewhere. Their place of business would've been a much more appropriate place to stage a protest about their discriminatory—and illegal—business practices. As peaceful as this entirely legal protest was, I'm against making people feel uncomfortable or unsafe in their own homes. Even bigots. And staging protests outside people's homes is a tactic usually employed by rightwing anti-abortion activists and the KKK back in the day. I don't think this is a tactic that gay rights movement should endorse or adopt.
To bring this down to a personal level: I say a lot of shit that pisses off the religious right. I don't want rightwing anti-gay haters turning up on the sidewalk outside my house, annoying my neighbors, and, most importantly, making my son feel unsafe in his own home. (Honestly sometimes I'm surprised that they haven't; I'd even go so far to express my gratitude—yes, to the haters—that they haven't.) Protesting outside people's homes? I don't think they should do that to us, any of us, and I don't think we should do that to them, any of them. Not Tony, not Maggie, not these florists.
UPDATE: There's no flower shop, apparently—this is a home-based business. Nevertheless, I would err on the side of not staging protests at people's homes. There had to be some other way to stage a protest against what is, as I wrote in earlier post, not that big a deal. When the wedding planner described the couple whose business was turned away as devastated ("this is something that's going to stay with them for years"), I wrote...
Oh, please. Shrug the bigot off, faggots, and make a big show of taking your business elsewhere. This can't be the first you've about or from anti-gay bigots over the course of your lives. There are lots of people out there who don't think your lives are OK and you haven't let them stop you—or reduce you to tears—up to now, right? Don't give this stupid petal pusher so much power. How about you double your flower order and take it to—hey!—a gay florist who would welcome your business?
Brainstorming now: you wanna stage a TV-news friendly protest—you gotta give 'em something to tpae—and you don't wanna stage a protest at the bigot's place of business because it's also the bigot's home. How about this: raise money online for a flower fund for this couple's wedding—I'd would've kicked in some dough—and make sure that their wedding was the most flower-bedazzled thing that ever happened in New Brunswick, and invite the TV cameras to come and film the chapel and the reception (before, not during, the wedding), and interview the florist who was happy to take this couple's business and ecstatic at the resulting size of the order. How about that?
2
I have to agree with you here.
Protesting at the flower shop - totally ok.
But not people's homes. That's un-Canadian.
Protesting at the flower shop - totally ok.
But not people's homes. That's un-Canadian.
3
I totally agree. We should be smart, not unkind. Words are one thing, and protesting at a business is sufficient, but not at their home. That's mean like Phelp's. And it doesn't win friends.
6
They ARE protesting outside of the florist's place of business (front of the home operation) and anti-gay protesters frequently target the homes of pro-gay legislators already. That christian "sodomy truck" or whatever it's called frequently hits the bricks outside of the homes and offices of pro-gay politicos.
Dropping flowers outside a florist's place of business during normal business hours is annoying but nothing major.
Dropping flowers outside a florist's place of business during normal business hours is annoying but nothing major.
7
i completely disagree
people protested wall street exec houses during the worst of the worst in the economy, after a trillion dropped in via TARP, and there was zero sympathy here or elsewhere
i think with the amount of bile and ignorance/arrogance dan savage vomits all over the internet on a weekly basis is more than enough reason to protest at his house, and i agree with 98% of what he says
freedom of speech, to the limits that don't go beyond our personal comfort zone. yeah, i don't think that qualifier was part of the original intention.
of course, if any protester should commit a crime like trespass or make threats, arrest and restraining order is extremely appropriate. but to just stand outside of your house on the sidewalk pointing out to the neighbor that you're an idiot? no problem from me. maybe they shouldn't be fucking idiots in the first place.
and i'd say the same to dan
people protested wall street exec houses during the worst of the worst in the economy, after a trillion dropped in via TARP, and there was zero sympathy here or elsewhere
i think with the amount of bile and ignorance/arrogance dan savage vomits all over the internet on a weekly basis is more than enough reason to protest at his house, and i agree with 98% of what he says
freedom of speech, to the limits that don't go beyond our personal comfort zone. yeah, i don't think that qualifier was part of the original intention.
of course, if any protester should commit a crime like trespass or make threats, arrest and restraining order is extremely appropriate. but to just stand outside of your house on the sidewalk pointing out to the neighbor that you're an idiot? no problem from me. maybe they shouldn't be fucking idiots in the first place.
and i'd say the same to dan
10
Homophobic florists aren't worth protesting; one can always choose, simply, to opt for some other florist more open-minded.
That said, if the left wants to edge itself back into prominence, it's going to need to lose its sense of shame. People like Beck and O'Reilly, and those who like them, aren't going to be impressed with your concern for decorum. In fact, they will take it as a cue to walk all over you.
That said, if the left wants to edge itself back into prominence, it's going to need to lose its sense of shame. People like Beck and O'Reilly, and those who like them, aren't going to be impressed with your concern for decorum. In fact, they will take it as a cue to walk all over you.
11
If you think about it, adopting the tactics of your enemy is just bad stategy. We can see it NOT WORKING in today's world. So, no, I'm against doing what mean spirited people do, just because they do it to us. That's not smart!
12
Well said, Dan. And for heaven's sake, just take your business elsewhere. Why would you want grudgingly provided flowers at your wedding? That's bad juju!
13
I feel a little bad for that family... maybe I'll send flowers from one of their competitors to let them know just how bad.
14
From what I read she ran the business from her home. Not sure that justifies the front yard protest.
15
Since heterosexuals seem to eschewing marriage completely and having kids out of wedlock in single parent families, a gay unfriendly florist is an out of business florist.
17
Protesting in front of a home is similar to advocating in front of a home during political times. PRO "Prop 8" signs in people's yards is the home owners choice, just as standing in front of that home with a NO on "Prop 8" is the other side's choice. We all see political/economic signs in yards all the time. This is just one more form of political speak in a front yard. Politics is ugly business and not for the weak.
18
Might be more effective to investigate whether the home-run business complies with local zoning ordinances.
19
I agree with you Dan - the idea of protesting these bigots is kind of pointless in light of more productive possibilities. I also agree that homes should be off limits - except that this business in run out of their home, and that is one of the drawbacks of having a home-based business. Even if it was not a protest, but an angry customer pounding on the door at midnight demanding his money back, this is a trade off that home-based business owners choose when they decide to keep their costs low and get a tax write-off for their homes.
20
@7: The question isn't whether they can protest outside a residential home, but should they? Or perhaps a more poignant question: does protesting outside a residence convince anyone? I think not.
I once lived in an apartment building a couple blocks away from a relatively nice hotel. At one point, the hotel workers had some kind of wage dispute with management and went on strike.
Now normally I support workers' right to strike (fuck you, Governor Walker). But these fuckers showed up on weekends at 7am, blasting megaphones and chanting solidarity bullshit. The workers' callous disregard for the the hotel's neighbors quickly turned the entire neighborhood against them. (We started crossing the picket lines just to order drinks at the hotel bar.) Needless to say, the workers did not receive their raise.
We have a right to free expression. But we shouldn't simply voice displeasure whenever and wherever we like; rather, we should determine how to use that right to free expression to advance our goals.
I once lived in an apartment building a couple blocks away from a relatively nice hotel. At one point, the hotel workers had some kind of wage dispute with management and went on strike.
Now normally I support workers' right to strike (fuck you, Governor Walker). But these fuckers showed up on weekends at 7am, blasting megaphones and chanting solidarity bullshit. The workers' callous disregard for the the hotel's neighbors quickly turned the entire neighborhood against them. (We started crossing the picket lines just to order drinks at the hotel bar.) Needless to say, the workers did not receive their raise.
We have a right to free expression. But we shouldn't simply voice displeasure whenever and wherever we like; rather, we should determine how to use that right to free expression to advance our goals.
21
@18 interesting point. Depends on the number of employees usually, but if it's a family business, they're usually permitted in most areas.
22
I think you brainstorm idea is great, but only if the wedding is scheduled soon. The whole impact might be lost on the public if it doesn't happen until 6 months or so from now.
24
It's bad PR for the cause as much as anything else. Plenty of (liberal) people who comprise the base of support for gay rights will be turned off by seeing activists adopt tactics commonly associated with extreme right-wing groups. Heck, just look at a lot of the comments here.
25
As a gay who owns a business, I think they would've been better off finding some violation of home-based business rules to screw the woman. There are so many bureaucratic rules for having a home-based business, it's almost impossible to have one without violating something.
Funny though, the uber-libs didn't seem to have a problem when people protested outside of the home of WI Gov. Scott Walker, even though the protestors knew he was in Madison and the only people at his home were his wife and minor children.
Funny though, the uber-libs didn't seem to have a problem when people protested outside of the home of WI Gov. Scott Walker, even though the protestors knew he was in Madison and the only people at his home were his wife and minor children.
26
Where you you when your rag gleefully posted pictures and home addresses of people who had republican signs in front of their houses. I bet you were hoping for some nice "progressive" vandalism.
27
Dan, there were times in the past where in figured you for a brilliant asshole who I enjoyed reading, but would end up punching if we so much as sat down for a beer. But as I (we) age, I figure I'd like you more and more. What is it? I don't know. But your update to this post filled my imagination and was honestly inspirational.
Ya want to get a beer?
Ya want to get a beer?
29
Am I wrong (or forgetful, or wasted too often to have memories) when I recall that the Stranger backed releasing the names and addresses of signatories on a referendum to ban gay marriage, or some such?
I honestly can't remember what exactly I'm thinking of.
I honestly can't remember what exactly I'm thinking of.
30
@29
The Stranger (and almost every other news source in Washington State) backed obeying a law that states that signatures on ballot referendum petitions are public records, fundi xians (as usual) felt that the law should apply to them.
The Stranger (and almost every other news source in Washington State) backed obeying a law that states that signatures on ballot referendum petitions are public records, fundi xians (as usual) felt that the law should apply to them.
31
While I don't want Mr Savage's son to feel unsafe in his own home, I feel ill that that is the most important (and probably the only one that really matters) point regarding the issue. I sometimes joke about never trusting anyone with children, but cannot get rid of the nagging idea that Mr Savage would sell me and all the rest of the non-heterosexual population down the river voluntarily, willingly, even cheerfully if it would bring any benefit or avert any evil, even if minor, to his son. It feels as if he's sold out and joined The Enemy.
Now to meditate and work out how much I mean it.
Now to meditate and work out how much I mean it.
34
@32
Perhaps you could duct-tape 27's hands to the chair and they could dink their beer through a straw? OK probably not worth the effort.
as for 31, not only are they a drama queen, I hope they lack offspring, what kind of parent wouldn't do everything they could to protect their child?
Perhaps you could duct-tape 27's hands to the chair and they could dink their beer through a straw? OK probably not worth the effort.
as for 31, not only are they a drama queen, I hope they lack offspring, what kind of parent wouldn't do everything they could to protect their child?
35
I completely disagree, Dan. First, by running a business from her home, the florist has blurred the line between public and private. Where are unhappy customers supposed to go to complain? Let's say it wasn't about bigotry at all, but instead a couple had a wedding, and the florist didn't show up. (It happens.) Would it be all right for them to go to the place of business (her home) and complain? Of course it would. If your home is where you run your business, you should expect people who are unhappy with your business to show up at your home when they want to voice their discontent.
Secondly, anti-gay bigots have made our homes the battleground for years. Our private lives are their business! (And by business, I mean, it's how they keep the cash rolling in.) So let's make a deal -- when they stop attacking my home and my family, I'll stop protesting outside of the flower shop they run in their garage. (If she were a better florist, maybe she could afford a storefront.)
Secondly, anti-gay bigots have made our homes the battleground for years. Our private lives are their business! (And by business, I mean, it's how they keep the cash rolling in.) So let's make a deal -- when they stop attacking my home and my family, I'll stop protesting outside of the flower shop they run in their garage. (If she were a better florist, maybe she could afford a storefront.)
36
@32 - Thank you.
On reflection, while I might have exaggerated a tad, there are way too many newly-conservative jerks out there whose jerkiness wasn't apparent before parenthood.
I've actually no objection to taking people's families off the table; it's just a bit disconcerting to see Think of the Children being made into the main argument and presented as an inflexible absolute, given how often it's used against us.
On reflection, while I might have exaggerated a tad, there are way too many newly-conservative jerks out there whose jerkiness wasn't apparent before parenthood.
I've actually no objection to taking people's families off the table; it's just a bit disconcerting to see Think of the Children being made into the main argument and presented as an inflexible absolute, given how often it's used against us.
37
@34 - I raised my two sisters. Protection wasn't at all what I had in mind. I was thinking more along the lines of deliberately using and playing upon the homophobia of the judicial system in various locations (particularly in custody battles) or arranging for leaks about one's friends' private lives to board members to give one's own child the tiniest increase of a chance of getting into an exclusive school.
38
@20: Good point. Protesters shouldn't go out of their way to piss off anyone but the people they're protesting. It's a good way to turn people against you who would've otherwise been out there holding signs with you.
39
Finding some way to directly harm her or her business makes you out as a persecutor, which ultimately won't help your cause.
To repeat an argument made in the previous discussion of this incident: Far better is to turn her own prejudice against her, by flooding her business with legitimate requests for her services -- only make it clear that they will be for same-sex events. At that point she will be the one destroying her own revenue stream by turning away tens of thousands of dollars of business. (As far as I'm concerned, it's okay to lie, to tell her you event is same-sex even if it isn't. If she wants to turn you away based on that criterion, let her.)
True, there will be a number of indirect harms to her business as a side effect:
-- every time she turns away an event, that can be publicized, cementing her reputation as a bigot and driving away additional business.
-- tieing up her communication channels with requests for services that she refuses, thereby blocking requests that she might actually contract for.
But again, SHE is the one harming HERSELF by her own actions.
Think karma as judo.
To repeat an argument made in the previous discussion of this incident: Far better is to turn her own prejudice against her, by flooding her business with legitimate requests for her services -- only make it clear that they will be for same-sex events. At that point she will be the one destroying her own revenue stream by turning away tens of thousands of dollars of business. (As far as I'm concerned, it's okay to lie, to tell her you event is same-sex even if it isn't. If she wants to turn you away based on that criterion, let her.)
True, there will be a number of indirect harms to her business as a side effect:
-- every time she turns away an event, that can be publicized, cementing her reputation as a bigot and driving away additional business.
-- tieing up her communication channels with requests for services that she refuses, thereby blocking requests that she might actually contract for.
But again, SHE is the one harming HERSELF by her own actions.
Think karma as judo.
40
"Not a big deal"? Dead wrong. It is very much a big deal---not that the couple couldn't get their flowers from their florist of choice, but that the florist broke the law by turning them down on the basis of their sexual orientation. It is exactly the same type of big deal as it would be if a restaurant turned away a couple for being black, or a hairdresser refused to cut a Chinese woman's hair.
And while I get the larger point about protesting at people's homes, there was nowhere else to protest in this case (in Dan's case, for example, people could protest his office or his public speaking engagements).
Or maybe you're just too numbed to bigoted assholes saying idiotic things about teh gays in America. However, this is the type of nonsense up with which Canadians will clearly not put.
And while I get the larger point about protesting at people's homes, there was nowhere else to protest in this case (in Dan's case, for example, people could protest his office or his public speaking engagements).
Or maybe you're just too numbed to bigoted assholes saying idiotic things about teh gays in America. However, this is the type of nonsense up with which Canadians will clearly not put.
41
HEY DAN - Remember when you posted the home addresses of Seattle-area people who had Republican signs in their yard last year?
Hypocrisy is cool.
Hypocrisy is cool.
42
I agree with @40 that Canadians are much less used to homophobic bullshit, so we tend to react much more strongly. Refusing to provide your business to someone who's gay is illegal and deserves both legal prosecution and community shunning.
I'd be more concerned about protesters at home based businesses if they were angry or oppositional or belligerent. Flowers and photos and people saying "we must meet hatred with love" seems pretty OK to me.
I like your creative idea, Dan, but my sense is that the couple doesn't want this to be about them and doesn't want their wedding to become about this story. That's why they haven't wanted their names released.
I'd be more concerned about protesters at home based businesses if they were angry or oppositional or belligerent. Flowers and photos and people saying "we must meet hatred with love" seems pretty OK to me.
I like your creative idea, Dan, but my sense is that the couple doesn't want this to be about them and doesn't want their wedding to become about this story. That's why they haven't wanted their names released.
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