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News & ArtsWednesday, March 16, 2011
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Coded Conversation
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 4:35 PM
I guess my question is more a general relationship question than a sex question, but...
How much are we obligated to adopt our partner's interests to be a good partner? I've been with my husband for almost three years. I love him a lot, and respect him; he's one of the smartest people I know. However... pretty much all of his interests are WAY over my head. When I met him, he was in his final years completing his PhD. in neurobiology. After graduation he started teaching himself computer programming and got a job doing web security. Now, pretty much ALL he ever talks about is super hard, super complicated computer shit. I'm seriously talking 6 solid months of talking non-stop about programming languages and website vulnerabilities. I'm talking like, hours a day lectures that I barely understand, my knowledge of the internet being limited to updating my status on Facebook.
I've tried valiantly to understand it, but usually I'm lost within the first couple sentences and spend the rest of the "conversation" trying to just nod at the appropriate times and not show how bored I am. If I don't do this, he gets super hurt and offended, acts like I'm rejecting him as a person, acts distant, and denies me sex and affection. I understand that he's trying to get close to me by sharing things he's excited about, but honestly, I am NEVER going to understand computer programming, and I'm starting to deeply resent that I'm even being asked to. I feel terribly guilty about it, but I actually try to avoid talking to him sometimes because it's so likely that I'll be subjected to an hours-long computer science lecture. Trying to ask questions to understand it better just results in longer and more complicated lectures. He criticizes me for my "lack of curiosity" but... am I really obligated to be curious about everything he's into? He doesn't seem particularly interested in any of MY interests, none of which are "technical" enough to sustain his interest. He's a good person, but I'm going nuts here. Am I being a jerk, or is it reasonable to ask that some topics are kept to a minimum?
Computer Illiterate
My response after the jump...
···············
DTMFA.
Okay, perhaps that's harsh. You say you love him and that he's a good person and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. And you are married, CI, and divorce isn't something I push on people. But I'm tossing that DTMFA out there as food for thought. Because from where I'm sitting the good person you married sounds like a dense, inconsiderate, self-obsessed, controlling, manipulative, obsessive-compulsive-disordered asshole.
Reading your letter, CI, I couldn't help but think of my own relationship. If I were required to feign an interest in dance music—my husband's chief interest—in order to be considered a "good partner," I wouldn't be considered a good partner. Luckily my husband doesn't insist on talking with/at me about dance music for hours at a time. Sometimes he can't help himself and he'll enthuse at me about a "track" or an "artist" that he's excited about. I'll listen patiently, ask a question or two, even listen to a "track" now and then. But he doesn't expect more from me than a little patient, loving indulgence, e.g. what he needs to tide him over until he can get someone who gives a shit about dance music on the phone.
On the flip side, my boyfriend doesn't share my passion for the Tudors or the Stuarts and the English Revolution. When I read something interesting on those subjects, I'll share it with him, and he will smile and nod before turning his attentions back to whatever "music" he's listening to.
So in answer to your question: We are not obligated to adopt our partner's interests. We are obligated to take a healthy, respectful interest in our partner's interests (the ones we don't share), we are obligated to support our partner's pursuit of their interests, and we are obligated to listen when no one who gives a shit is nearby. And that's it.
1
I think you're being way harsh on this dude, Dan. He sounds like an oblivious, dense nerd with no social skills.
His denial of sex and affection probably comes more from having no idea how to deal with other human beings rather than manipulative assholishness.
Just recommend counseling and get it over with.
His denial of sex and affection probably comes more from having no idea how to deal with other human beings rather than manipulative assholishness.
Just recommend counseling and get it over with.
3
I'm with Dan all the way. This guy is dense and inconsiderate, and it's probably not going to get any better. Sorry, hon.
4
You need to be straight forward with him. Don't expect him to change, just tell him computers and programming are over your head. Then find an interest you both can share together like golfing, or kayaking.
5
It sounds to me like one of those passive-aggressive things some folks (especially some guys) do, where they behave like assholes to force the partner into dumping them. Him berating her for "lack of curiosity" over his arcane interests is a huge red flag. CI: DTMFA, since he doesn't apparently have the stones to dump you.
6
I'm with @1. At least consider that rather than being deliberately self-obsessed and manipulative, perhaps the problem is lack of social skills? Some people really don't get it when you're not as enthusiastic (or enthusiastic at all) about the things they're super interested in. Their innate reaction is to withdraw or get angry, but they can be taught better behavior.
7
Here we have the Typical American female. Weak willed, always looking to her man to fill her life with, well everything. And what do we make of this typical American female who has a successful and smart husband? She is not satisfied. No she is not and to whom does she turn for help? Lord Help us our own dear and beloved sweet Lord Savage. She has one redeeming quality.
8
With Dan, too. Being boring is one thing, but being an manipulative asshole as well leads to only one conclusion...
10
Dan, way too harsh.
Were the husband's interests over her head when he was getting his PhD? Or is this just a recent occurrence? And who cares if you don't understand what he's talking about? The point is being a supportive spouse, right? Listening to the day he had is a VITAL aspect of that support. I just don't think there's that much a difference between complicated computer shit and Jersey Shore shit. Different people will be utterly confused different things.
Counseling would be good, but both of them need to learn to communicate better. CI needs to communicate to husband that his explanations aren't working and truly just more confusing. Husband needs to understand that sometimes we can't all be excited about the same shit. And the withholding of sex thing is just wrong.
But if you don't think you'll ever get it (I still can't tell the difference between JWow/Sammi and Ronnie/Pauly) what's the point asking questions that will just get you more confused? Listen, nod, hug, kiss, repeat. Being a good listener doesn't mean you have to actually understand the details of his job.
Were the husband's interests over her head when he was getting his PhD? Or is this just a recent occurrence? And who cares if you don't understand what he's talking about? The point is being a supportive spouse, right? Listening to the day he had is a VITAL aspect of that support. I just don't think there's that much a difference between complicated computer shit and Jersey Shore shit. Different people will be utterly confused different things.
Counseling would be good, but both of them need to learn to communicate better. CI needs to communicate to husband that his explanations aren't working and truly just more confusing. Husband needs to understand that sometimes we can't all be excited about the same shit. And the withholding of sex thing is just wrong.
But if you don't think you'll ever get it (I still can't tell the difference between JWow/Sammi and Ronnie/Pauly) what's the point asking questions that will just get you more confused? Listen, nod, hug, kiss, repeat. Being a good listener doesn't mean you have to actually understand the details of his job.
11
Note to all future Savage Love letter writers: If your letter includes the following, "If I don't do x, s/he gets super hurt and offended, acts like I'm rejecting him/her as a person, acts distant, and denies me sex and affection," where x = something beyond basic courtesy, then the answer is DTMFA.
p.s. Dan, you can call me any time to discuss 16th-18th C. English royalty! What is your theory on the death of Christopher Marlowe?
p.s. Dan, you can call me any time to discuss 16th-18th C. English royalty! What is your theory on the death of Christopher Marlowe?
12
Girlfriend needs to find herself a life. Dan's response is entirely too charitable. Tudors and dance music is one thing. Expecting your partner to read up on your profession and enjoy doing it is another. Anyone who identifies that much with something as tedious and ultimately ephemeral as computer security, well. Slap a Mr Yuck sticker on his ass, and put him out with the trash.
13
Was he like this when you first met?
I don't usually like DTMFA regarding spouses. I think it's a glib thing for those of us not involved to say, and relationships are about making compromises, bah blah bah. I also don't think that all those being complained of are necessarily motherfuckers, just because the letter writers are unhappy with them.
But this is a clear case of DTMFA if ever I've read one.
He seems ungrateful for the attempts you are making to listen to his interests, even if you don't share them; he sounds selfish and manipulative, and kind of Aspergers-y.
Anyone who criticizes your attempts to be polite because you don't want to sit through "hours long computer science" lectures doesn't sound like someone to want to stay married to. You say you're already avoiding conversations with him, and you're only in three years.
Do you have kids?
If you're not ready to walk, try couples counseling, but if your description of it is accurate, this relationship seems doomed.
I don't usually like DTMFA regarding spouses. I think it's a glib thing for those of us not involved to say, and relationships are about making compromises, bah blah bah. I also don't think that all those being complained of are necessarily motherfuckers, just because the letter writers are unhappy with them.
But this is a clear case of DTMFA if ever I've read one.
He seems ungrateful for the attempts you are making to listen to his interests, even if you don't share them; he sounds selfish and manipulative, and kind of Aspergers-y.
Anyone who criticizes your attempts to be polite because you don't want to sit through "hours long computer science" lectures doesn't sound like someone to want to stay married to. You say you're already avoiding conversations with him, and you're only in three years.
Do you have kids?
If you're not ready to walk, try couples counseling, but if your description of it is accurate, this relationship seems doomed.
14
Is the letter writer female? For some reason I assumed it was a man, and they got married in one of those places where it's legal.
Also, I know hardly anything about autism or asperger's or anything, but this guy sounds kind of like some of the people with Asperger's I've read about: talking on and on about a technical subject they're passionate about and failing to notice that their partner checked out of the conversation long ago.
Also, I know hardly anything about autism or asperger's or anything, but this guy sounds kind of like some of the people with Asperger's I've read about: talking on and on about a technical subject they're passionate about and failing to notice that their partner checked out of the conversation long ago.
15
@11:
I'll discuss 16-18th-C English royalty with you, offer my theory that Marlowe proves that good writers can also be bad boys (or even spies), and more.
But can we expand into Pepys' diary?
I'll discuss 16-18th-C English royalty with you, offer my theory that Marlowe proves that good writers can also be bad boys (or even spies), and more.
But can we expand into Pepys' diary?
16
CI is an audience, not a partner. As an audience, you have a right to leave when you lose interest.
17
Asperger's syndrome, maybe?
I find it hard to believe she didn't have some hint of this behavior before she married the guy.
I find it hard to believe she didn't have some hint of this behavior before she married the guy.
18
I'm going to weigh-in on the side of Aspergers. If not literally in the medical sense, than at least in the personality-type sense. He sounds like my brother: a super smart geek who can go on for hours when enthused, completely oblivious to the glassed-over eyes surrounding him.
19
My partner and I have been together for more than 20 years. We have some interests we share, and some we don't. It is totally reasonable for me to be required to listen to him prattle about cruise ships (of which I have no interest whatsoever) for a few minutes on occasion, but it is not reasonable for me to be required to listen to that for hours at a time. He likewise pays me the same courtesy, as long as I don't go overboard. We otherwise gravitate toward subjects where we share a common interest.
Your husband is an insensitive moron if he expects you to listen to hours of programming drivel when he knows you aren't interested, and he's an asshole for withholding sex.
Dan is totally right. DTMFA.
Your husband is an insensitive moron if he expects you to listen to hours of programming drivel when he knows you aren't interested, and he's an asshole for withholding sex.
Dan is totally right. DTMFA.
20
@10, listening to him grouse about his day is one thing. Putting up with "hours a day lectures" on computer topics is beyond the pale. I know people who do high-level tech stuff at this level, and they can and do hold normal conversations about other stuff. If this guy isn't interested in other stuff, then he's going to be a misery to live with for the next 50 years.
Seriously: if start droning on about DHCP and mounting the store and authentication and blah blah blah, Mrs. Fnarf starts openly laughing in my face after about twenty seconds. Guy needs to get a life.
Seriously: if start droning on about DHCP and mounting the store and authentication and blah blah blah, Mrs. Fnarf starts openly laughing in my face after about twenty seconds. Guy needs to get a life.
21
@ 10, It sounds like she has communicated that this doesn't work for and that just makes him act like a bigger asshole. And yes, talking for hours about intricate, technical details about your job and little else when you know that your partner isn't in your career field (or shit, even if they are) and isn't interested makes one an asshole.
My husband's a programmer and I work in theatre. He talks about his day for a bit, and I listen. I talk about my day a bit, and he listens. I'm a reasonably technologically intelligent person, so he'll explain some basic stuff to me so I can understand what he's saying. He's a reasonably artistically intelligent person, so I'll explain some basic stuff to him so he can understand what I'm saying. Then we both shut the fuck up about our jobs and talk about mutual interests and life events like normal people in a functional relationship.
My husband's a programmer and I work in theatre. He talks about his day for a bit, and I listen. I talk about my day a bit, and he listens. I'm a reasonably technologically intelligent person, so he'll explain some basic stuff to me so I can understand what he's saying. He's a reasonably artistically intelligent person, so I'll explain some basic stuff to him so he can understand what I'm saying. Then we both shut the fuck up about our jobs and talk about mutual interests and life events like normal people in a functional relationship.
22
If you can get him to therapy you will most likely find out he has Aspergers syndrome. With some professional help there is plenty of hope for both him and their relationship.
23
This motherfucker just needs to be set straight. From the tone of the letter she obviously thinks she shares the blame in this problem. But a PhD in neurobiology AND computer programming? Fuck that, that stuff is WAY too complicated for a layman to follow. It's one thing to talk about your day, it's another to lecture your spouse like a professor with stuff they can't understand.
I'm finding myself in the group that says this guy is socially leotarded and needs to be made aware of why he's not being cool.
I'm finding myself in the group that says this guy is socially leotarded and needs to be made aware of why he's not being cool.
24
Wow. My wife loves the dance music, words and language and hiking. I am a nerd for the tudors, religion and other history.
We share a love of snorkeling and the Galapagos. Guess what we talk about more often than not?
As a team, though, we are deathly good at trivia. except for sports. which we both dislike. We need a little sporty dyke on the side to round out our trivia death panel.
We share a love of snorkeling and the Galapagos. Guess what we talk about more often than not?
As a team, though, we are deathly good at trivia. except for sports. which we both dislike. We need a little sporty dyke on the side to round out our trivia death panel.
25
I, personally, will never marry someone who can't have in-depth conversations with me about physics, astronomy, and mathematics.
Point out to your husband that he's being a complete asshole. If he doesn't seem to care that his behaviour is making him a total jerk (and this includes changing his behaviour, not just realising that it exists), then he's not worth staying married to.
Point out to your husband that he's being a complete asshole. If he doesn't seem to care that his behaviour is making him a total jerk (and this includes changing his behaviour, not just realising that it exists), then he's not worth staying married to.
26
@15
I gather you don't ascribe to the "argument over the bill" excuse. Neither do I.
As far as Pepys, goes, he's one of the more fascinating ass-wipes in history. But still a major ass-wipe.
But more on-topic, I think it's silly to look for medical explanations when this is classic male-dominant behavior, which is still prevalent is some societies today. The man could have grown up in Saudi Arabia, or Utah. I recall a story about a brilliant Turkish mathematician who would have starved in a house full of food if his wife wasn't around to cook for him.
I gather you don't ascribe to the "argument over the bill" excuse. Neither do I.
As far as Pepys, goes, he's one of the more fascinating ass-wipes in history. But still a major ass-wipe.
But more on-topic, I think it's silly to look for medical explanations when this is classic male-dominant behavior, which is still prevalent is some societies today. The man could have grown up in Saudi Arabia, or Utah. I recall a story about a brilliant Turkish mathematician who would have starved in a house full of food if his wife wasn't around to cook for him.
27
Is he hot? If you don't want him, can I have him?
Wait...
Stop. I swear I won't date another geekier than me type again.
Seriously, this sounds like my ex. Only throw in minor temper trantrums about nothing when he gets frustrated about something completely unrelated. They're not bad guys, but they can be taxing on your sanity. But, hey, you're lucky. Your guy knows what he rambles about. It's worse when they don't know what they're going on about. Trust me.
Wait...
Stop. I swear I won't date another geekier than me type again.
Seriously, this sounds like my ex. Only throw in minor temper trantrums about nothing when he gets frustrated about something completely unrelated. They're not bad guys, but they can be taxing on your sanity. But, hey, you're lucky. Your guy knows what he rambles about. It's worse when they don't know what they're going on about. Trust me.
28
He sounds like Sheldon from "The Big Bang Theory." Who should never marry anyone. If he expects her to fascinated by hours (and we're not talking, "here was my day" minutes) of lectures because she finds them both too geekily specialized and uninteresting, and yet also finds her interests not worth listening to because they're too "simple" and uninteresting -- well, how fair is that?
One of the things *he* could be learning from his marriage is how to describe his work in less time, and with easier-to-understand concepts, to a lay audience. That actually takes a stronger understanding of the subject than just rattling on and on about everything he knows (Mark Twain reportedly demanded more prep time and money for a ten-minute speech than a two-hour speech). If he'd stayed in academics and had to teach undergrads, he would have had to learn that lesson too. Smarter people than him -- Albert Einstein, Stephen Jay Gould, Lynn Margulis, Arthur C. Clarke -- found that one of the most difficult and rewarding aspects of their careers. (May not Isaac Newton, but his romantic life was a barren one.)
But maybe that's why he got out of academia and into the hermetic world of computer security: he doesn't seem to want to convey information, at least not in a way people actually understand. He just wants to show off. And with your spouse, that's getting into DTMFA territory.
One of the things *he* could be learning from his marriage is how to describe his work in less time, and with easier-to-understand concepts, to a lay audience. That actually takes a stronger understanding of the subject than just rattling on and on about everything he knows (Mark Twain reportedly demanded more prep time and money for a ten-minute speech than a two-hour speech). If he'd stayed in academics and had to teach undergrads, he would have had to learn that lesson too. Smarter people than him -- Albert Einstein, Stephen Jay Gould, Lynn Margulis, Arthur C. Clarke -- found that one of the most difficult and rewarding aspects of their careers. (May not Isaac Newton, but his romantic life was a barren one.)
But maybe that's why he got out of academia and into the hermetic world of computer security: he doesn't seem to want to convey information, at least not in a way people actually understand. He just wants to show off. And with your spouse, that's getting into DTMFA territory.
29
@26 Really? Making this about sexism?
So not true. This is probably more socially/emotionally immature behavior. Think of a 7-year-old who prattles on and on about Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh or whathaveyou. Note that he'll get hurt and withdraw emotionally if you tell him what he cares about is lame.
Now, change that interest to computer science and put the same personality in a 30-year-olds (or however old this dude is) body. It's probably quite similar.
So not true. This is probably more socially/emotionally immature behavior. Think of a 7-year-old who prattles on and on about Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh or whathaveyou. Note that he'll get hurt and withdraw emotionally if you tell him what he cares about is lame.
Now, change that interest to computer science and put the same personality in a 30-year-olds (or however old this dude is) body. It's probably quite similar.
30
Sorry kids, all of you who say Dan is too harsh are completely missing the point.
The guy sounds like a person with no social skills who IS AN ADULT and can't figure out when someone he's talking to (lecturing too) is BORED. Maybe he has Aspergers, maybe he's just a douche, but this is ridiculous. A conversation is a two way street, not a college seminar.
Either way, he's alienating his partner (it's not entirely clear to me the letter writer is a woman). You have to be able to read the people you're spouting off to. If they are all glazed over, shut the fuck up. Most people learn that when they're 15, by the time they're 30 (I'm guessing his age here) it's a very unpleasant trait.
I work in IT, and my hubby gets some of what I do, but mostly I shut up about the technical aspects of it. He's been very helpful in assisting me with figuring how to deal with difficult clients, since he works with people all day in a retail setting and I don't.
The guy sounds like a person with no social skills who IS AN ADULT and can't figure out when someone he's talking to (lecturing too) is BORED. Maybe he has Aspergers, maybe he's just a douche, but this is ridiculous. A conversation is a two way street, not a college seminar.
Either way, he's alienating his partner (it's not entirely clear to me the letter writer is a woman). You have to be able to read the people you're spouting off to. If they are all glazed over, shut the fuck up. Most people learn that when they're 15, by the time they're 30 (I'm guessing his age here) it's a very unpleasant trait.
I work in IT, and my hubby gets some of what I do, but mostly I shut up about the technical aspects of it. He's been very helpful in assisting me with figuring how to deal with difficult clients, since he works with people all day in a retail setting and I don't.
31
I'd say to let your husband know that you support him in his technical ventures, but you just don't understand it, the way he probably wouldn't understand some of your interests. Remind him that it has nothing to do with him as a person or as a husband; you're just not into computers the way he is.
I don't get upset with my girlfriend when she loses concentration while I'm telling her about cool bio stuff, and she doesn't hold it against me when I go all glassy-eyed while she's discussing anime.
I don't get upset with my girlfriend when she loses concentration while I'm telling her about cool bio stuff, and she doesn't hold it against me when I go all glassy-eyed while she's discussing anime.
32
Your husband has Aspergers Syndrome.
Standard issue geeks don't bother having deep technical discussions with their nontechnical spouses, because what's the point in having a conversation when the other person has no idea what you are talking about?
Standard issue geeks don't bother having deep technical discussions with their nontechnical spouses, because what's the point in having a conversation when the other person has no idea what you are talking about?
33
Why do people put up with stuff like this?
CI, leave him or don't, but either way take some responsibility for your own happiness! You are not obligated to put up with anything that makes you miserable. It's not reasonable to expect that of yourself or for anyone else to expect it of you. But you are responsible for making the changes that need to be made.
CI, leave him or don't, but either way take some responsibility for your own happiness! You are not obligated to put up with anything that makes you miserable. It's not reasonable to expect that of yourself or for anyone else to expect it of you. But you are responsible for making the changes that need to be made.
34
He's an asshole because it's all about him. You have to listen to what he wants to talk about, and if he doesn't get his way, then he withholds sex and blames you. But he doesn't have to listen to what you find interesting, because he finds it boring. Well, you find his interests boring, but that doesn't count - because it is all about him.
That isn't a partnership. He sets up the benchmarks for judging a person. You have no curiosity, because you aren't interested in the things he finds interesting. Anything that interests you that he finds boring doesn't count, because it doesn't interest him.
And you are feeling guilty about not being a good partner or not being sufficiently intellectual. It makes sense, he keeps telling you that you are inferior, because you do not meet his standard of being him.
Whether he intends to or not, these are classic abusive behaviors. So, make him change his behaviors or DTMFA. It doesn't matter why he is doing it. Either he can change his patterns to healthy ones that treat you with respect, decency, and courtesy. Where you each talk about your interests equally, and not to a point that it bores either of you. Where neither of you regularly insults or belittles the other person. Or you separate, before you do serious harm to each other. Your letter has several red flags. Please do take it seriously.
That isn't a partnership. He sets up the benchmarks for judging a person. You have no curiosity, because you aren't interested in the things he finds interesting. Anything that interests you that he finds boring doesn't count, because it doesn't interest him.
And you are feeling guilty about not being a good partner or not being sufficiently intellectual. It makes sense, he keeps telling you that you are inferior, because you do not meet his standard of being him.
Whether he intends to or not, these are classic abusive behaviors. So, make him change his behaviors or DTMFA. It doesn't matter why he is doing it. Either he can change his patterns to healthy ones that treat you with respect, decency, and courtesy. Where you each talk about your interests equally, and not to a point that it bores either of you. Where neither of you regularly insults or belittles the other person. Or you separate, before you do serious harm to each other. Your letter has several red flags. Please do take it seriously.
35
A certain amount of indulgence is reasonable, but a good partnership requires a certain quantity of shared interests, ones with longevity, depth, and complexity. Because you'll be talking about them for a long time. My parents have virtually NO interests in common, and they don't really talk to each other except about practical matters. Don't end up like them.
The letter writer already mentioned that her interests are too nontechnical for her partner, which is not a good sign. I would test him to see whether he's worth keeping. For example, if she goes on and on about an interest of her which bores him, how does he act? Is he at least as nice to her as she is to him? Does he try to change the topic to a subject of mutual interest? Or to one that only interests him? How does he act when told that he is being rude by either not noticing her boredom or being bored? How many mutual interests do they have and do they acquire new ones easily? The answers to these questions should be a good indication whether there is anything worth saving.
The letter writer already mentioned that her interests are too nontechnical for her partner, which is not a good sign. I would test him to see whether he's worth keeping. For example, if she goes on and on about an interest of her which bores him, how does he act? Is he at least as nice to her as she is to him? Does he try to change the topic to a subject of mutual interest? Or to one that only interests him? How does he act when told that he is being rude by either not noticing her boredom or being bored? How many mutual interests do they have and do they acquire new ones easily? The answers to these questions should be a good indication whether there is anything worth saving.
36
Wow, all of these technical diagnoses! Good thing I don't have to be married to you psychiatric experts who will only gab all day about your area of expertise: Asperger's. I mean, you can diagnose a problem like this after this short little note? Wow.
Diagnose me! Diagnose me!
I get it. I have Asperger's. But just you wait 10 years and you'll all tell me I have something different based on its visibility.
Anyway, why don't people marry people with whom they share a major passion? I don't get everything my husband talks about (he has Asperger's! You can't have a relationship with them because they have ASPERGER'S!), so I listen, and then I focus on my other passions, including my passion for him.
PS: That "typical American Female" poster up there not only has ASPERGER'S!, he don't got no date neither.
Diagnose me! Diagnose me!
I get it. I have Asperger's. But just you wait 10 years and you'll all tell me I have something different based on its visibility.
Anyway, why don't people marry people with whom they share a major passion? I don't get everything my husband talks about (he has Asperger's! You can't have a relationship with them because they have ASPERGER'S!), so I listen, and then I focus on my other passions, including my passion for him.
PS: That "typical American Female" poster up there not only has ASPERGER'S!, he don't got no date neither.
38
Too harsh? Not hardly.
Maybe the husband does have Asperger's, or maybe he's just clueless. It's hard to tell. But it's certainly possible that he either doesn't know that people can't be faulted for not taking the same interest in his passion that he does, or doesn't care.
My boyfriend of ten years is also a programmer, and conversation about that bores the shit out of me. So he knows not to subject me to it, just as I know not to feel all pent up and angry if he doesn't feel like reading my PhD dissertation. It doesn't mean that either of us are stupid; just that some of our interests are very different. No denial of sex is involved, and no hurt feelings. LW has no reason to feel guilty or dumb, and if his/her (love how everyone assumes it's a "her") husband keeps trying to inflict those feelings, then DTMFA.
Maybe the husband does have Asperger's, or maybe he's just clueless. It's hard to tell. But it's certainly possible that he either doesn't know that people can't be faulted for not taking the same interest in his passion that he does, or doesn't care.
My boyfriend of ten years is also a programmer, and conversation about that bores the shit out of me. So he knows not to subject me to it, just as I know not to feel all pent up and angry if he doesn't feel like reading my PhD dissertation. It doesn't mean that either of us are stupid; just that some of our interests are very different. No denial of sex is involved, and no hurt feelings. LW has no reason to feel guilty or dumb, and if his/her (love how everyone assumes it's a "her") husband keeps trying to inflict those feelings, then DTMFA.
40
sounds like a chronic mansplainer to me, and it's fine if your love overcomes that sort of thing.... but chances are, he won't change for the better, at least not in any real way.
ymmv, but i would bet explaining your pov will probably only be turned into some sort of computer code in his head, and further the disconnect, to no good end.
i guess sadly, it depends on how much you are willing to
put up with this behavior.
in any case good luck, i think you might need it.
ymmv, but i would bet explaining your pov will probably only be turned into some sort of computer code in his head, and further the disconnect, to no good end.
i guess sadly, it depends on how much you are willing to
put up with this behavior.
in any case good luck, i think you might need it.
41
If Dan can't dispense advice based on one side of a story, he's going to have trouble continuing a career, #37.
43
ComIll doesn't understand her partner, or share his interests. ComIll is incapable of living up to his needs. Enough with telling ComIll to 'DTMFA'. Oblivious nerd or not, it's the partner who should think about dumping HER. After trying counselling, of course.
44
This guy needs to make 1) some computer-nerd friends who he can share his computer-life with, and 2) some other interests to talk about, and 3) some conversation that his wife is interested in. In other words, he needs to get a life.
45
Considering that ComIll's husband is the one being a shit about lack of shared interest rather than ComIll him/herself, Keef, I think the DTMFA advice has been applied appropriately.
46
Try this too: Put a mouse pad on the table. When you've had enough of the computer talk, start bashing your head on the mouse pad until he stops. If he doesn't get it, gradually increase the force of your head bashing until it's louder than his talking or you start bleeding out the ears.
I see your Asperger's and I raise you Autism.
I see your Asperger's and I raise you Autism.
47
Dan, did you mean the Tudors, English royal family, or The Tudors, TV series? I didn't think that you would be into the whole bodice-ripping spectacle. I liked it a lot, too!
48
If he's such a good guy, why does he treat you like crap? Deal with the guilt and resentment by dumping him.
50
Yeah, Pissy. 50 comments and he's the only guy who feels that way. Kinda makes you wonder what drugs he's on, eh?
51
It's very simple.
CI is trying to be GGG in the context of the conversations. Her husband does not seem to be making an effort to be GGG in this context at all.
I know I can be a selfish person...but, jeez, I sure hope I'm not THAT bad.
CI is trying to be GGG in the context of the conversations. Her husband does not seem to be making an effort to be GGG in this context at all.
I know I can be a selfish person...but, jeez, I sure hope I'm not THAT bad.
52
@50: ok, but still wow? 'cause those that post
< those that read and for whatever reason and still take that shit to heart...
< those that read and for whatever reason and still take that shit to heart...
53
I definitely vote Asperger's. He needs social skills training. Check out Michelle Garcia Winner's website. (No, I'm not a psychiatrist--just Mom to a child on the autistic spectrum.)
54
I suggest they try counseling first. This is anecdotal, but her description of him reminds me of some Mensa individuals who have very low social IQs that I cherish, wonderful people, but in many ways always living in the amazing world that is their minds. With the little information we are given he sounds more socially clueless than someone trying to be mean. Just my $0.02 and feel free to toss it in the dustbin.
56
anyway a diagnosis is kind of irrelevant to the main issue. Aspie or not, he's doing something that *really* isn't working for them as a couple, and he needs to learn to cut it out.
57
I notice that CI said "He doesn't seem particularly interested in any of MY interests, none of which are "technical" enough to sustain his interest." So I'm on the side of folks saying that he's the one being unreasonable. He doesn't want to hear about what she's interested in, he punishes her by withholding affection and sex if she doesn't submit to his lectures, and the dynamic of the relationship seems to be focused on CI not being smart enough to keep up (which sounds like BS). I'd suggest counseling before divorce, but I think what CI is asking is just: is this normal or okay? In my book it's not healthy, not okay.
58
My partner and I both tend to ramble on about something that interests only one of us, while the other sits there feigning interest. You know what works? Give it a few minutes. If your attention span is completely useless on the subject, speak up. "You know I love talking to you, honey, but I'm really tired and I just can't focus on computer science right now." My boyfriend frequently warns me that I'm approaching the end of his tolerance for a topic, and I know to move on. No hard feelings. We don't have to be twins with identical interests in order to be a good couple. It's nice to have differences. I just have to find someone else to watch horror movies with me and he has other friends to talk about his computer games with. No big deal. I don't know how you could deal with these hour long lectures without speaking up for yourself and defending your right to not be interested in computer science. Give it 5 minutes or so of polite smiling and nodding, and then kill the conversation.
60
I agree with those who are saying he sounds socially immature, rather than intentionally selfish, and although no, you can't diagnose Aspergers online, for those of us who know someone who does have it, this guy has some of the classic signs. What I find strange is that they wound up married, as though she wasn't aware of the traits and behaviours previously. This is something that is present, and noticeable, from childhood on, so how is she just now realizing he drones on about one subject, seemingly oblivious to the disinterest of those around him? That part strikes me as odd. I think often people who are like that tend to be happy with people who are a little bit on the quirky side, too.
My husband and I have almost nothing in common, and we've been married for 23 years, and he even builds computer programs, so it is possible, but only if you are aware of when you are driving the other person slightly insane.
My husband and I have almost nothing in common, and we've been married for 23 years, and he even builds computer programs, so it is possible, but only if you are aware of when you are driving the other person slightly insane.
61
Here's the thing. I'm probably someone who *could* actually understand this guy, because I *do* have that background.
But I wouldn't, not for a new york minute, because the last thing I want to do is talk shop after a day at work. I might toss off a few things just to vent, here and there, but as others have said, I wouldn't expect anyone -- whether they could follow along or not -- to put up with more than a few minutes here and there.
Not quite sure how to address this problem, though, especially if he gets all hissy when you aren't interested or can't follow along. That's pretty inconsiderate. I don't suppose simple things like changing th etopic, or getting into some other hobby that both of you enjoy would help or not (or maybe all you need is reassurance -- which you've got -- that you're not out of line to want to dial it back in order to try some other ways to deflect this).
Hope you can work something out.
As for Tudor's and Stuarts, I read recently of Yet Another Theory on what might have ailed Henry VIII to result in so few or sick children & to bloat up so much in later life... You probably spotted that though. (I fell in love with British history after first travelling through there -- there's something very satisfactoryt about how all the history is nicely broken down by distinctive monarchies (I was never able to keep all the Louis' straight so French history remained opaque)...) I learned all the British kings & queens long before getting the presidents straight (and we''ve had more presidents already!)
Ah, history. And to think of how much I hated it in high school :)
But I wouldn't, not for a new york minute, because the last thing I want to do is talk shop after a day at work. I might toss off a few things just to vent, here and there, but as others have said, I wouldn't expect anyone -- whether they could follow along or not -- to put up with more than a few minutes here and there.
Not quite sure how to address this problem, though, especially if he gets all hissy when you aren't interested or can't follow along. That's pretty inconsiderate. I don't suppose simple things like changing th etopic, or getting into some other hobby that both of you enjoy would help or not (or maybe all you need is reassurance -- which you've got -- that you're not out of line to want to dial it back in order to try some other ways to deflect this).
Hope you can work something out.
As for Tudor's and Stuarts, I read recently of Yet Another Theory on what might have ailed Henry VIII to result in so few or sick children & to bloat up so much in later life... You probably spotted that though. (I fell in love with British history after first travelling through there -- there's something very satisfactoryt about how all the history is nicely broken down by distinctive monarchies (I was never able to keep all the Louis' straight so French history remained opaque)...) I learned all the British kings & queens long before getting the presidents straight (and we''ve had more presidents already!)
Ah, history. And to think of how much I hated it in high school :)
62
So why couldn't he get a job with his PhD in neurobiology? Couldn't have anything to do with having a reputation for having lousy social skills, could it?
63
Bells and whistles going off here people.
@59, I'm with you, I think this is from a guy. I just reread the letter and I don't see a hint that this is a husband and wife. "I've been with my husband for almost three years...are we obligated to adopt our partner's interests...my knowledge of the internet being limited to updating my status on Facebook...Am I being a jerk?"
Not we've been married for 3 years, should I tell my husband I'm not interested in computers, am I being a bitch. And does anyone think a woman would take that long to change her Facebook status to married? Nope, I'm betting this is 2 guys!
@59, I'm with you, I think this is from a guy. I just reread the letter and I don't see a hint that this is a husband and wife. "I've been with my husband for almost three years...are we obligated to adopt our partner's interests...my knowledge of the internet being limited to updating my status on Facebook...Am I being a jerk?"
Not we've been married for 3 years, should I tell my husband I'm not interested in computers, am I being a bitch. And does anyone think a woman would take that long to change her Facebook status to married? Nope, I'm betting this is 2 guys!
64
The guy obviously has a low social IQ and counseling would probably be good, but let me offer a slightly different take.
CI has expressed both interest and confusion in topics that are incredibly interesting to her husband. He probably believes she's smart enough and is doing his damnedest to help her here, offering up multiple hour lectures and encouragement. Honestly, in his clueless way, I imagine he's trying to be GGG, but also lacks the emotional maturity to deal with CI's conflicting statements and actions.
I think the correct test is for CI to explain unequivocally that she's expressing an interest in him, not his current field of interest and that she is currently happy with her level of understanding. Give him some time to process this emotionally, and it will probably take him a couple days. If that doesn't start them down the path to resolution and he is resistant to counseling, then it's time to leave.
CI has expressed both interest and confusion in topics that are incredibly interesting to her husband. He probably believes she's smart enough and is doing his damnedest to help her here, offering up multiple hour lectures and encouragement. Honestly, in his clueless way, I imagine he's trying to be GGG, but also lacks the emotional maturity to deal with CI's conflicting statements and actions.
I think the correct test is for CI to explain unequivocally that she's expressing an interest in him, not his current field of interest and that she is currently happy with her level of understanding. Give him some time to process this emotionally, and it will probably take him a couple days. If that doesn't start them down the path to resolution and he is resistant to counseling, then it's time to leave.
65
I have Asperger's (with higher social function than most), and this guy sounds like an Aspie to me too. Although Aspies can be assholes too, and this guy sounds like he's not just pedantic and lacking social awareness, but childish and manipulative too.
Still, I have some difficulty scraping up sympathy for CI's almost willful sounding lack of interest in her husband's interests and professions and her repeated insistence that these things are just over her head. I'm not a biochemist or an economist, but I can still manage to be utterly fascinated by conversations in these topics, and it's probably totally unfair, but I can't help but think that one who fails to be at all interested, who just claims that such things are "over their head" is intellectually lazy or just plain dumb.
But then, yeah, I think about an economist-friend of mine and how, when he gets going for a good half-hour spewing dry, technical econo-jargon, everyone at the table just glazes over and starts looking at their watches...
Still, how the fuck did she even end up with this guy? How did they ever make it beyond their first dates? What did she honestly expect to share in common with him? What kind of future could she possibly have imagined with such a person?
Still, I have some difficulty scraping up sympathy for CI's almost willful sounding lack of interest in her husband's interests and professions and her repeated insistence that these things are just over her head. I'm not a biochemist or an economist, but I can still manage to be utterly fascinated by conversations in these topics, and it's probably totally unfair, but I can't help but think that one who fails to be at all interested, who just claims that such things are "over their head" is intellectually lazy or just plain dumb.
But then, yeah, I think about an economist-friend of mine and how, when he gets going for a good half-hour spewing dry, technical econo-jargon, everyone at the table just glazes over and starts looking at their watches...
Still, how the fuck did she even end up with this guy? How did they ever make it beyond their first dates? What did she honestly expect to share in common with him? What kind of future could she possibly have imagined with such a person?
66
I definitely agree with 60 - how on earth has it come this far? Who would marry that? And how could anybody put up with hours-a-day lectures for anywhere close to six months solid?
I suppose she could have been so desperate to marry him for some unsubstantiated reason that she went along with the situation hoping it would get better. But it's hard to take her seriously when she asks if she's being a jerk after that laundry list indicting him. Could she be trying any harder to angle for all the sympathy in response? Then again, they might be well-matched, if only they both get better in counseling at compatible rates.
I suppose she could have been so desperate to marry him for some unsubstantiated reason that she went along with the situation hoping it would get better. But it's hard to take her seriously when she asks if she's being a jerk after that laundry list indicting him. Could she be trying any harder to angle for all the sympathy in response? Then again, they might be well-matched, if only they both get better in counseling at compatible rates.
67
The husband is a nerd and a little socially inept. Surely she noticed this before she married him. He probably isn't picking up on the message that she just isn't interested, particularly since she's been FEIGNING INTEREST all this time.
She writes, "...usually I'm lost within the first couple sentences and spend the rest of the "conversation" trying to just nod at the appropriate times and not show how bored I am. If I don't do this, he gets super hurt and offended...."
Note that the letter writer doesn't actually say anything about directly discussing how she feels with her husband. Again, he's obviously not a social genius, and may just not GET it.
Be direct, don't beat around the bush.
If she has been direct, and he's still being a manipulative asshole, then and only then consider DTMFA.
She writes, "...usually I'm lost within the first couple sentences and spend the rest of the "conversation" trying to just nod at the appropriate times and not show how bored I am. If I don't do this, he gets super hurt and offended...."
Note that the letter writer doesn't actually say anything about directly discussing how she feels with her husband. Again, he's obviously not a social genius, and may just not GET it.
Be direct, don't beat around the bush.
If she has been direct, and he's still being a manipulative asshole, then and only then consider DTMFA.
68
@29
Umm...... Yeah. I mean, you have a type of behavior that has been a part of nearly every civilized human society, that has existed for millenia and is woven deeply into cultural heritage v. the pop psychology syndrome du jour.
Oh, never mind, I give in: This is obviously munchhausen-by-proxy. I saw that on X-Files once, so it makes me an expert.
Umm...... Yeah. I mean, you have a type of behavior that has been a part of nearly every civilized human society, that has existed for millenia and is woven deeply into cultural heritage v. the pop psychology syndrome du jour.
Oh, never mind, I give in: This is obviously munchhausen-by-proxy. I saw that on X-Files once, so it makes me an expert.
69
@60: What I find strange is that they wound up married, as though she wasn't aware of the traits and behaviours previously.
I find that very strange as well.
However, I also knew an amazing and smart woman who married an Aspie and didn't realize it until about 3 years into their marriage. I'm really not sure how she missed it - perhaps it was lost among some of his other fairly remarkable qualities. Last I heard, he was driving her completely nuts. I don't know if they are still together.
I find that very strange as well.
However, I also knew an amazing and smart woman who married an Aspie and didn't realize it until about 3 years into their marriage. I'm really not sure how she missed it - perhaps it was lost among some of his other fairly remarkable qualities. Last I heard, he was driving her completely nuts. I don't know if they are still together.
70
@26, @68:
If this was a case of classic male dominance, the guy wouldn't be discussing serious professional matters with his wife. He'd be telling her to be a good girl and make him and his buddies sandwiches while they talked about important things that she couldn't possibly understand. And to be quick about it.
@68: Just because you don't know anything about mental health doesn't mean no one else here does.
If this was a case of classic male dominance, the guy wouldn't be discussing serious professional matters with his wife. He'd be telling her to be a good girl and make him and his buddies sandwiches while they talked about important things that she couldn't possibly understand. And to be quick about it.
@68: Just because you don't know anything about mental health doesn't mean no one else here does.
71
@69 Well, three years? Just about the time those endorphins time out? I don't know. Doesn't sound promising. Personally, if I had to choose the ideal spouse, it'd be Jack Johnson...I can't imagine the guy who wrote Banana Pancakes could get upset about anything.
72
No DTMFA, just set the guy straight. Nick Swardson has a bit about his nephew going on and on about his Pokemon cards that this lady can take a lesson from.
She needs to pull her husband into the bathroom and start going on and on about all of her make-up. Ridiculous detail after detail, with comparisons of color to wardrobe. Even if she's not particularly into this type of thing, she needs to fake it and be ready to fake it for 2-4 hours non-stop. When he finally asks if it is necessary because he's lost or uninterested, she should answer no, and that that's how she feels when he goes on about work and computers.
I'd suggest though that they find a hobby or two together so that they have some common ground.
She needs to pull her husband into the bathroom and start going on and on about all of her make-up. Ridiculous detail after detail, with comparisons of color to wardrobe. Even if she's not particularly into this type of thing, she needs to fake it and be ready to fake it for 2-4 hours non-stop. When he finally asks if it is necessary because he's lost or uninterested, she should answer no, and that that's how she feels when he goes on about work and computers.
I'd suggest though that they find a hobby or two together so that they have some common ground.
73
@67 That doesn't add up. He knows she isn't interested. He criticizes her for not being interested. He calls it her lack of curiosity, which seems to amount to not having the same interests he does.
It could be Asperger's, but I don't think so. Aspies tend to be socially awkward, whereas he is being a deft social manipulator. He is very successfully manipulating his spouse into giving him exactly what he wants - attention to his lectures with no requirement that he reciprocate. And he is doing so by using several classic abuse patterns (insulting, withholding of sex, blaming the victim). And you see several classic victim responses in the letter, where the letter writer feels guilty and at fault for not being good enough. The letter has insecurity about various types of inadequacies, which is generally what an emotional abuser instills in his/her victims.
It's a classic pattern. It's just that this guy isn't being as controlling or awful (as far as we know and currently) as one would generally expect. He's just using it to totally dominate conversations and shut up his spouse (who has no right to his attention about his/her interests).
That isn't a classic aspie pattern, but it is a classic abuse pattern. It's just that being interested in a technical field and obsessing on a single subject are typical aspie traits. Of course, it could be both - an abusive aspie. But even if that's the case, it's the abusive patterns that are the serious problem.
It could be Asperger's, but I don't think so. Aspies tend to be socially awkward, whereas he is being a deft social manipulator. He is very successfully manipulating his spouse into giving him exactly what he wants - attention to his lectures with no requirement that he reciprocate. And he is doing so by using several classic abuse patterns (insulting, withholding of sex, blaming the victim). And you see several classic victim responses in the letter, where the letter writer feels guilty and at fault for not being good enough. The letter has insecurity about various types of inadequacies, which is generally what an emotional abuser instills in his/her victims.
It's a classic pattern. It's just that this guy isn't being as controlling or awful (as far as we know and currently) as one would generally expect. He's just using it to totally dominate conversations and shut up his spouse (who has no right to his attention about his/her interests).
That isn't a classic aspie pattern, but it is a classic abuse pattern. It's just that being interested in a technical field and obsessing on a single subject are typical aspie traits. Of course, it could be both - an abusive aspie. But even if that's the case, it's the abusive patterns that are the serious problem.
74
I, too, was at DTMFA by the 2nd sentence of the 2nd 'graph. I'm no genius, but I can certainly bore the crap out of average folk on a couple-three subjects. However, I *understand* that they are bored and, at best, will treat it as an amusing quirk and grounds for joking about me. I don't refuse to change the subject day after day after day after day!
You can start with an ultimatum to stop the supercilious lecturing and acting butt-hurt or get dumped, but from your time-line, this guy is 30ish, by which time anyone reasonable would have noticed that all-nerd-all-the-time doesn't cut it with most people. So, good luck with that.
And a +1 to @ 65: how did it get this far? Unless you have two noses and both have damage from leprosy, you DO have other options. Pursue them.
You can start with an ultimatum to stop the supercilious lecturing and acting butt-hurt or get dumped, but from your time-line, this guy is 30ish, by which time anyone reasonable would have noticed that all-nerd-all-the-time doesn't cut it with most people. So, good luck with that.
And a +1 to @ 65: how did it get this far? Unless you have two noses and both have damage from leprosy, you DO have other options. Pursue them.
75
Loving the quotes around "music", Dan. Reminds me of how my boyfriend kindly-but-cheekily tolerates my brief spurts of enthusiasm for boy bands.
Though, I'm kind of edgy on the OCD-comment. It was brief in passing, but remember it's an actual brain-wiring difference in people and takes away from your argument because OCD isn't the guy's fault, especially if he's not aware that he has it. But, it's likely he's just got a personality thing going, and I agree with you.
Though, I'm kind of edgy on the OCD-comment. It was brief in passing, but remember it's an actual brain-wiring difference in people and takes away from your argument because OCD isn't the guy's fault, especially if he's not aware that he has it. But, it's likely he's just got a personality thing going, and I agree with you.
76
This is what I call the Sonny & Cher Syndrome.
Initially (and here I will guess that he is older and she younger) the Sonny appears as an older brother, father figure. Fascinating and full of new information. The Cher figure of course provides the ego boost to Sonny.
Fast forward after the marriage 3 years later. He's still thinking he got the best end of the deal. She's looking at herself in the mirror and thinking...I gotta use this now!
Lesson to be learned: Don't Marry Your Whore
77
I also wondered how she got married without being frustrated. I'm guessing/projecting, though, that he has a lot of romantic qualities that blinded her and the minor frustrations are now showing up.
I thougt I once read a thing that stated that the first couple of years were spent getting to know your partners quirks, and the remaining was spent dealing with them.
Also, @68 I pity the man who dates you, what with you seeing sexism and misogyny around every corner.
I thougt I once read a thing that stated that the first couple of years were spent getting to know your partners quirks, and the remaining was spent dealing with them.
Also, @68 I pity the man who dates you, what with you seeing sexism and misogyny around every corner.
78
"He criticizes me for my "lack of curiosity" "
That's all I need to know. That's Asshole Behavior,and it needs to stop. You don't berate your wife for daring to be different from you.
Your wife does not need to understand the intricate details of the problems that you are tackling at work every day in order to love you. Learn to summarize. Also, learn to shut up and do your share of listening to HER, for a change. Have you ever heard the phrase "monopolizing the conversation?" It's what you are doing. It isn't a compliment.
You have an entire fucking corporation to talk to about this stuff, all day long, folks who are actually fascinated by it. You display a level of insatiability that makes me agree with the other commenters who suspect neurological problems.
That's all I need to know. That's Asshole Behavior,and it needs to stop. You don't berate your wife for daring to be different from you.
Your wife does not need to understand the intricate details of the problems that you are tackling at work every day in order to love you. Learn to summarize. Also, learn to shut up and do your share of listening to HER, for a change. Have you ever heard the phrase "monopolizing the conversation?" It's what you are doing. It isn't a compliment.
You have an entire fucking corporation to talk to about this stuff, all day long, folks who are actually fascinated by it. You display a level of insatiability that makes me agree with the other commenters who suspect neurological problems.
79
#72 FTW. The only thing I would add is, get a stopwatch.
Let him drone on until he runs out of steam. Show him the elapsed time, and tell him he is going to listen to YOU talk about makeup for an equal amount of time, or he will be sleeping on the couch. If he complains or exhibits boredom, berate him for his lack of sensitivity on a topic near and dear to half the human population.
Next day, when he wants to open conversation about work, brandish the stopwatch.
Eventually, he will find himself editing his monologues down to a few minutes.out of a sense of self-preservation.
Let him drone on until he runs out of steam. Show him the elapsed time, and tell him he is going to listen to YOU talk about makeup for an equal amount of time, or he will be sleeping on the couch. If he complains or exhibits boredom, berate him for his lack of sensitivity on a topic near and dear to half the human population.
Next day, when he wants to open conversation about work, brandish the stopwatch.
Eventually, he will find himself editing his monologues down to a few minutes.out of a sense of self-preservation.
80
I didn't read the whole thread, so someone might have already said this, but it seems like he is rubbing his intellectual superiority (or perceived superiority) in her face.
An habit born of deep insecurity, I'm guessing.
An habit born of deep insecurity, I'm guessing.
81
Agreed Dan,
I'm a mathematician and my wife is not. Occasionally there is something I just have to talk about because there is no one else around or because it's just so interesting. She listens, asks questions (because I've done a good job of teaching her some of the basics of what I do) and puts up with for a bit. But that's all I really have the right to expect. And that's all this woman's husband should have the right to expect. If you want to talk computer programming, make a friend or find a colleague.
I'm a mathematician and my wife is not. Occasionally there is something I just have to talk about because there is no one else around or because it's just so interesting. She listens, asks questions (because I've done a good job of teaching her some of the basics of what I do) and puts up with for a bit. But that's all I really have the right to expect. And that's all this woman's husband should have the right to expect. If you want to talk computer programming, make a friend or find a colleague.
82
Sounds like they got married while they were still infatuated, during that time when a partner's quirks and hobbies are interesting just because they're your partner's. Why do people make commitments during this time? I'll never understand it.
People like the husband here - and both my own husband and I have our moments when we lapse into lectures about the things we've studied, worked on, or read - should marry people like them, in different but similar fields.
People like the husband here - and both my own husband and I have our moments when we lapse into lectures about the things we've studied, worked on, or read - should marry people like them, in different but similar fields.
83
It doesn't sound to me like this is pure social awkwardness on his part, because the LW notes that "now" all he talks about is computer programming. I can't imagine that LW actually dated this guy for 3 years and is just now getting around to realizing he was never able to hold a pleasant conversation. Something's going on with him.
Maybe he's feeling inadequate or insecure at work, and so he feels like he has to assert his dominance by babbling on and on to his spouse about these technical subjects, and berating the LW for a lack of interest? Or maybe he's always felt slightly contemptuous of LW's lack of interest/ability in technical fields, and now that they're married he feels like he can really start browbeating his partner about not being his exact intellectual equal?
Whatever it is, he's acting like an asshole, and the LW is only enabling him by smiling and nodding. There's no reason for LW to put up with this behavior, and using these avoidance strategies is not going to help. What freaks me out about the letter is that LW seems to agree that the husband's interests and talents actually are more important, legitimate and serious than LW's own interests! Honey, that's not true. It shouldn't be your role in this relationship to sit and reinforce his perceptions that he is a genius and you are an idiot. You're smart and interesting too. His refusal to acknowledge that you, too, have a legitimate career and real intellectual passions is very very worrying.
Maybe he's feeling inadequate or insecure at work, and so he feels like he has to assert his dominance by babbling on and on to his spouse about these technical subjects, and berating the LW for a lack of interest? Or maybe he's always felt slightly contemptuous of LW's lack of interest/ability in technical fields, and now that they're married he feels like he can really start browbeating his partner about not being his exact intellectual equal?
Whatever it is, he's acting like an asshole, and the LW is only enabling him by smiling and nodding. There's no reason for LW to put up with this behavior, and using these avoidance strategies is not going to help. What freaks me out about the letter is that LW seems to agree that the husband's interests and talents actually are more important, legitimate and serious than LW's own interests! Honey, that's not true. It shouldn't be your role in this relationship to sit and reinforce his perceptions that he is a genius and you are an idiot. You're smart and interesting too. His refusal to acknowledge that you, too, have a legitimate career and real intellectual passions is very very worrying.
84
And then he's hurt when his every whim isn't the centre of the spouse's world. Childish self centred rubbish. And why did he marry the spouse if he/she wasn't interesting?!
85
I have known way too many guys who do this. Usually it's not so much computer programming, but things like Magic the Gathering cards or Warhammer 40k models (I'm a computer gamer, and all my friends are geeks, but I don't like tabletop gaming AT ALL). The key is to find something you have in common and try to gently nudgingly redirect the conversation there. If he will not be nudged... ever... and doesn't let up, and withholds affection, and doesn't respond to counseling, then he's a fucker and you need to dump him.
My eyes have gone to glaze indulging my last boyfriend's Magic cards fetish, but even then he would stop rambling after 5 or 10 minutes and let me get back to blowing shit up in WoW. But we had WoW in common so that was always something fun to mutually geek out about. If you and this guy don't have any mutually geekable topics, then maybe it just isn't meant to be.
My eyes have gone to glaze indulging my last boyfriend's Magic cards fetish, but even then he would stop rambling after 5 or 10 minutes and let me get back to blowing shit up in WoW. But we had WoW in common so that was always something fun to mutually geek out about. If you and this guy don't have any mutually geekable topics, then maybe it just isn't meant to be.
86
Sounds like Asperger's to me. My husband (who also has Asperger's) is highly technical and can talk for hours about the intricacies of database architecture. Ditto car engines, batteries, video games, robotics and mathematics. Because he has trouble seeing the world from other people's perspectives, it never occurs to him that everyone else in the world is not interested in those things, nor can they carry on a long conversation about them. It helps that I share two of his special interests (card and video games), so we always have something to talk about, but I will say it is frustrating sometimes.
Perhaps a visit to a psychiatrist for a diagnosis is in order for CI and her husband. Understanding that he is wired differently will allow both of you to begin to work toward a reasonable solution to your communication problems and hopefully keep divorce off the table, unless of course he refuses to change. Many with Asperger's see the world as being the one with the problem, so they expect the entire world to change to suit them. If he values you and your marriage, then he will at least try. If he refuses, then you're back to the first line: DTMFA.
Perhaps a visit to a psychiatrist for a diagnosis is in order for CI and her husband. Understanding that he is wired differently will allow both of you to begin to work toward a reasonable solution to your communication problems and hopefully keep divorce off the table, unless of course he refuses to change. Many with Asperger's see the world as being the one with the problem, so they expect the entire world to change to suit them. If he values you and your marriage, then he will at least try. If he refuses, then you're back to the first line: DTMFA.
87
The prognosis is poor, but here's what we need to do:
1- Do not, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, get pregnant.
2- Tell Mr Clueless he needs to share some of your interests.
. . .Take him to counseling so you can work on your communication skills.
. . .If he resists move on......
enjoy-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxUuDPNbk…
1- Do not, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, get pregnant.
2- Tell Mr Clueless he needs to share some of your interests.
. . .Take him to counseling so you can work on your communication skills.
. . .If he resists move on......
enjoy-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxUuDPNbk…
88
I'm a computer programmer and my husband is a web developer - we're as geeky as geeky gets. We still don't make each other listen for hours to whatever it is we're working on or playing around with lately. It's one thing to talk at a high level about your excitement or frustration with something, but *nobody* wants to hear all the technical details of something they aren't doing themselves.
89
Everybody is asking how CI would have ended up with this guy.
He was getting his PhD when they started dating. That means that he was spending vast amounts of time thinking about, talking about and working on neurobiology. His time with CI probably represented the time he spent not dealing with neurobiology in some way. It was probably a welcome break.
In computer security, he's not required to spend all his time on it. So he has to obsess on it recreationally. He has to enlist CIs help to spend all his time on it.
This behavior is unfair to CI. I agree with that. But it is behavior that CI's husband has been rewarded for for a while now. I just don't think he's necessarily a complete basket case. Maybe he just needs time and help adjusting to the real world of just hanging the fuck out and talking about irrelevant crap.
He was getting his PhD when they started dating. That means that he was spending vast amounts of time thinking about, talking about and working on neurobiology. His time with CI probably represented the time he spent not dealing with neurobiology in some way. It was probably a welcome break.
In computer security, he's not required to spend all his time on it. So he has to obsess on it recreationally. He has to enlist CIs help to spend all his time on it.
This behavior is unfair to CI. I agree with that. But it is behavior that CI's husband has been rewarded for for a while now. I just don't think he's necessarily a complete basket case. Maybe he just needs time and help adjusting to the real world of just hanging the fuck out and talking about irrelevant crap.
90
@seandr and misanthrope: Sometimes dominating someone in an relationship is a LITTLE more subtle than "MAKE ME A SANDWICH." All those wonderful "isms" are so poisonous because no one who benefits from them in some way wants to admit that they do.
For example, oh, maybe a man who believes that his career and his field and his hobbies are obviously MUCH more important and difficult and interesting than his wife's boring, frivolous, and useless work, whatever the hell it is she does all day while he does REAL work, and thinks therefor that it makes perfect sense that he should lecture her and berate about this for HOURS on end. Our culture's ingrained sexism just miiiiight have influenced this guy's view of how relationships work.
It's obviously not the whole story, but you can't just ignore it because you don't want to see "sexism and misogyny around every corner" (and racism, and ableism, and homophobia, and...). Who does? They suck. Most sane people can agree on that. But they are there, and pretending they are not and berating people who try to discuss them will not make them magically go away. Actually discussing the possibility will actually do SOMETHING rather than nothing.
For example, oh, maybe a man who believes that his career and his field and his hobbies are obviously MUCH more important and difficult and interesting than his wife's boring, frivolous, and useless work, whatever the hell it is she does all day while he does REAL work, and thinks therefor that it makes perfect sense that he should lecture her and berate about this for HOURS on end. Our culture's ingrained sexism just miiiiight have influenced this guy's view of how relationships work.
It's obviously not the whole story, but you can't just ignore it because you don't want to see "sexism and misogyny around every corner" (and racism, and ableism, and homophobia, and...). Who does? They suck. Most sane people can agree on that. But they are there, and pretending they are not and berating people who try to discuss them will not make them magically go away. Actually discussing the possibility will actually do SOMETHING rather than nothing.
91
I had relationship kind of like this for three years. The guy was very smart and loved teaching, so went off on long rants about topics in his area of interest. When it was an interest of mine (math) I really enjoyed it and learned a lot. After year two it shifted to computer programming and I was bored stiff. One of the reasons why it didn't work out, and we didn't fix this problem. But in a marriage I would imagine (hope?) both people are willing to put in more effort into it.
My advice: Explain to him explicitly how it is making you feel and lay down some enforceable rules. ie max 15 minutes of computer talk a day. With a counselor if necessary. Feel free to add an ultimatum or two. But stand strong: it may not be easy but he'll respect you more in the end (and if he doesn't see Dan's advice ;). If you are going to be with each other the rest of your lives, then both of you - not just you - need to learn to enjoy each other's company.
My advice: Explain to him explicitly how it is making you feel and lay down some enforceable rules. ie max 15 minutes of computer talk a day. With a counselor if necessary. Feel free to add an ultimatum or two. But stand strong: it may not be easy but he'll respect you more in the end (and if he doesn't see Dan's advice ;). If you are going to be with each other the rest of your lives, then both of you - not just you - need to learn to enjoy each other's company.
92
Did anyone else read Dear Prudence this morning? Sounds like this woman's husband wrote to her with his side of the story. http://www.slate.com/id/2288470/?from=rs…
(And yes, I know what a witch Emily Yoffe can be. She's no Margo Howard, but I'm addicted to advice columns and Dan doesn't write enough.)
(And yes, I know what a witch Emily Yoffe can be. She's no Margo Howard, but I'm addicted to advice columns and Dan doesn't write enough.)
93
"[I] spend the rest of the "conversation" trying to just nod at the appropriate times and not show how bored I am. If I don't do this, he gets super hurt and offended, acts like I'm rejecting him as a person, acts distant, and denies me sex and affection."
This is the part that bothers me. CI's partner doesn't just want to talk at length about the differences between python and perl, this dude wants his/her RAPT, UNDIVIDED ATTENTION as he talks about things that he must know s/he has no interest in. I suspect CI has tried to discuss it in polite terms,* and has gotten only the brush-off and the accusations that CI "isn't curious enough." Regardless of whether his neurochemistry is wonky, that's just selfish, and makes me think that this marriage isn't worth saving. S/he owes him one last conversation/fight about how he needs to learn that s/he's not there to hang off his every word whenever he feels like talking, and then I think CI should ultmatlyely leave
I doubt it's Asperger's, too, as CI would have gotten indications of that earlier in life, it's not exactly adult-onset. And, as much as I hate to say it, if it is, does that require CI to stay with a partner who may never meet his or her emotional needs in the way s/he wants? If a partner comes down with the sort of serious illness that makes themkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
And, for the record, this guy is an idiot. When and if CI leaves him, where is he going to find another human being who will put up with hours-long discourses on the minutia of computer security? That sort of love and compassion should be treasured, and this dude is a moron if he throws CI away just because he can't leave work at work.
More...
This is the part that bothers me. CI's partner doesn't just want to talk at length about the differences between python and perl, this dude wants his/her RAPT, UNDIVIDED ATTENTION as he talks about things that he must know s/he has no interest in. I suspect CI has tried to discuss it in polite terms,* and has gotten only the brush-off and the accusations that CI "isn't curious enough." Regardless of whether his neurochemistry is wonky, that's just selfish, and makes me think that this marriage isn't worth saving. S/he owes him one last conversation/fight about how he needs to learn that s/he's not there to hang off his every word whenever he feels like talking, and then I think CI should ultmatlyely leave
I doubt it's Asperger's, too, as CI would have gotten indications of that earlier in life, it's not exactly adult-onset. And, as much as I hate to say it, if it is, does that require CI to stay with a partner who may never meet his or her emotional needs in the way s/he wants? If a partner comes down with the sort of serious illness that makes themkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
And, for the record, this guy is an idiot. When and if CI leaves him, where is he going to find another human being who will put up with hours-long discourses on the minutia of computer security? That sort of love and compassion should be treasured, and this dude is a moron if he throws CI away just because he can't leave work at work.
94
All other things being equal, can we put away the word "mansplaining"? We have finally put away (among non-neanderthals anyway) the notion that a woman's opinion is prima facie worth less than a man's. "Mansplaining" has rapidly morphed a lever to say that a man's opinion is prima facie worth less than a woman's and is damned tiresome to those who hope for some degree of egalitarian respect.
95
@90 You know, your argument would hold water if he didn't expect the little lady to actually be learning something. If he was like *blah blah blah You're an idiot blah blah blah*. But, I think he actually finds this shit fascinating, and expects everybody else to as well. And, if you don't find it fascinating, you're just not curious.
Your argument would also hold water if it was exclusive to men, and also exclusive to straights. As a man dating a man, dating somebody kind of like this (and, also, to a point, being somebody who can be like this unchecked), I don't know how misogyny works itself into the relationships I have. But, you could possibly work misogyny into it.
Side rant: I recently read somebody saying how they didn't like gay porn (though they were gay themselves) because gay porn tended towards the same type of dehumanization of the bottom as straight porn does towards women, thus inducing a misogyny into gay porn. Which, to me, is a hilarious post-feminist argument against all porn for being misogynistic. Retarded (oops, ableist...I mean moronic) but hilarious.
In other words, you're an idiot for wanting to interject something cultural like an -ism into somebody's social limitations. Stop being such a liberal nanny willing to blame society for your problems and deal with the actual problems at hand.
CI, another way to get your husband off your back: have him tutor students in Computer Science. It will burn off the extra CS energy he has now that he is his own student. At least when he was in neuroscience, he had other students to blab on and on about.
Your argument would also hold water if it was exclusive to men, and also exclusive to straights. As a man dating a man, dating somebody kind of like this (and, also, to a point, being somebody who can be like this unchecked), I don't know how misogyny works itself into the relationships I have. But, you could possibly work misogyny into it.
Side rant: I recently read somebody saying how they didn't like gay porn (though they were gay themselves) because gay porn tended towards the same type of dehumanization of the bottom as straight porn does towards women, thus inducing a misogyny into gay porn. Which, to me, is a hilarious post-feminist argument against all porn for being misogynistic. Retarded (oops, ableist...I mean moronic) but hilarious.
In other words, you're an idiot for wanting to interject something cultural like an -ism into somebody's social limitations. Stop being such a liberal nanny willing to blame society for your problems and deal with the actual problems at hand.
CI, another way to get your husband off your back: have him tutor students in Computer Science. It will burn off the extra CS energy he has now that he is his own student. At least when he was in neuroscience, he had other students to blab on and on about.
96
Why is this all HIS fault? It sounds to me that the only mistake he made was marrying someone not smart enough for him, and yeah, while that's a big one, he might reasonably expect her to 'play smart' because that's what he needs. Of course, ultimately, one cannot play that game very long, and that's where their communication problems come in.
I bet she's over-reacting. I bet he gets frustrated with her because he's wicked smart and she's not, and that's why he gets angry and withdraws. She should dump him, if he's unlikely to dump her, at least to set him free.
I bet she's over-reacting. I bet he gets frustrated with her because he's wicked smart and she's not, and that's why he gets angry and withdraws. She should dump him, if he's unlikely to dump her, at least to set him free.
97
92 - Yes, I caught that as well.
I've finally placed CI though with her overextended selflessness - Gerda Christow in *The Hollow*. Maybe this marriage will have the same ending.
I've finally placed CI though with her overextended selflessness - Gerda Christow in *The Hollow*. Maybe this marriage will have the same ending.
98
The guy does sound like he might potentially have mild Aspberger's. Though she should not at all be ok with the current situation, it is not necessarily hopeless.
THIS article might help explain some things and gives hope to this couple, and aspies and their partners in general. It is written by a man who finds out he has Asperger's (he is probably early 30's when he finds out?) when his marriage starts to fall apart, ironically, it its 3rd year :http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/fashio…
THIS article might help explain some things and gives hope to this couple, and aspies and their partners in general. It is written by a man who finds out he has Asperger's (he is probably early 30's when he finds out?) when his marriage starts to fall apart, ironically, it its 3rd year :http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/fashio…
100
#92:
Why is Emily Yoffe a witch? I like her advice, and she frequently has questions to deal with that are pretty complex. I don't always agree with her answers, but then I don't always agree with Dan's answers, either.
Why is Emily Yoffe a witch? I like her advice, and she frequently has questions to deal with that are pretty complex. I don't always agree with her answers, but then I don't always agree with Dan's answers, either.
101
He sounds like my first husband. We're both bright, intelligent, attractive individuals, but he couldn't be courteous enough to understand that sometimes that horse just won't get up, no matter how much you flog it. Took 11 years of patient explaining until I finally wised up to DTMFA.
103
I don't get this thing people are saying about whether or not he's "intentionally selfish." Who's *intentionally* selfish? He's selfish, and that's bad.
Also, people referring to him as "clueless"--he's not. When she gives him clues, he punishes her for them.
Also, people referring to him as "clueless"--he's not. When she gives him clues, he punishes her for them.
104
I have a bunch of friends who, if they want to, could get way into the computer security/geek level of conversation -- probably far deeper than this guy because he's only been at it a little while and is self-taught. And you know how often they talk among themselves about the stuff they know. Hardly ever. You know why? Because they have more interesting things to talk about. People who are actually smart don't have to spend their time telling you what they know. They just do something with it.
105
Damn, the husband's an asshole; he's emotionally abusive if CI is honest about her lack of interest in (or even ability to understand) his hours-long, highly technical tirades? You're not obligated to find anything he's into interesting, CI. It's nice if we can be encouraging about our partners' interests, but that doesn't necessitate sharing them, and his expectation that you should share them (and his responses when you don't) are WAY out of line. I'm with Dan: DTMFA.
As for Asperger's: maybe he has it, maybe not; it doesn't matter - he's treating his wife like shit. Apsberger's, like anything else, is not an essentialized state, it's a diagnostic model that has been developed to categorize certain behavior patterns with similar causes, such that people who experience trouble as a result might be able to overcome some of their barriers to happiness. Mental illness is not an excuse to treat other people badly; people suffering mental illness who hurt others as a result and don't seek help and/or avoid situations in which they're likely to hurt other people (like intimate relationships) are inconsiderate or outright uncaring assholes. That's on them, irrespective of their issues. If CI's husband can be diagnosed with Aspberger's, it doesn't mean he isn't an asshole, it means he's and asshole with Aspberger's.
That said, it's possible no one has ever pulled him up short and told him that and how his behavior is unacceptable. He may not be vindictive about this, or even realize he has issues that are causing others harm and for which he should seek help. CI needs to have this conversation with him; even if she does wind up dumping him, either because he won't acknowledge that his behavior is problematic, he does but refuses to seek help, or he isn't able to function at a level that doesn't make CI miserable even with help, it's a kindness to both her husband and anyone who might date him in the future to make him aware that what he's doing isn't okay. And in the event that he ISN'T aware of what, exactly, he's doing, then he may be able to get better. So have the conversation, and if he isn't receptive, DTMFA.
More...
As for Asperger's: maybe he has it, maybe not; it doesn't matter - he's treating his wife like shit. Apsberger's, like anything else, is not an essentialized state, it's a diagnostic model that has been developed to categorize certain behavior patterns with similar causes, such that people who experience trouble as a result might be able to overcome some of their barriers to happiness. Mental illness is not an excuse to treat other people badly; people suffering mental illness who hurt others as a result and don't seek help and/or avoid situations in which they're likely to hurt other people (like intimate relationships) are inconsiderate or outright uncaring assholes. That's on them, irrespective of their issues. If CI's husband can be diagnosed with Aspberger's, it doesn't mean he isn't an asshole, it means he's and asshole with Aspberger's.
That said, it's possible no one has ever pulled him up short and told him that and how his behavior is unacceptable. He may not be vindictive about this, or even realize he has issues that are causing others harm and for which he should seek help. CI needs to have this conversation with him; even if she does wind up dumping him, either because he won't acknowledge that his behavior is problematic, he does but refuses to seek help, or he isn't able to function at a level that doesn't make CI miserable even with help, it's a kindness to both her husband and anyone who might date him in the future to make him aware that what he's doing isn't okay. And in the event that he ISN'T aware of what, exactly, he's doing, then he may be able to get better. So have the conversation, and if he isn't receptive, DTMFA.
106
Wow
Waaay too many comments to get through on this one.
As someone who is friends with lots of nerds I'm going with the very first comment. This guy is just a dense nerd who needs to be clued in that not everyone cares about über nerd stuff. Give him that chance first.
This could also be a case where the woman married him because he is way smart and pays for everything. In that case she should shut up and enjoy the gravy train. That's what the wives of my nerdy friends do.
Waaay too many comments to get through on this one.
As someone who is friends with lots of nerds I'm going with the very first comment. This guy is just a dense nerd who needs to be clued in that not everyone cares about über nerd stuff. Give him that chance first.
This could also be a case where the woman married him because he is way smart and pays for everything. In that case she should shut up and enjoy the gravy train. That's what the wives of my nerdy friends do.
107
103
you're smart. you should answer the letters...
99
don't feel bad. Danny will only learn if we all help him. he's actually making great progress toward being ready to take his GED exam.
you're smart. you should answer the letters...
99
don't feel bad. Danny will only learn if we all help him. he's actually making great progress toward being ready to take his GED exam.
108
I have a fair amount of experience with people on the Asperger's/Autism spectrum and this sounds like a pretty clear candidate for an evaluation. Obsessive technical interests, the tendency to talk at length and in great detail about them, the inability to see when others might tire of hearing of them, the inability to see the lack of reciprocation on his part. Each of these are actually SYMPTOMS, criteria for diagnosis, and they are so classic people familiar with it will laugh. Socially clueless computer nerd aspie is as classic as Irish people liking Guinness (and I am Irish so I can say that) or gay men liking blowjobs. Get an evaluation or just google around a little for starters.
109
Yeah dan's being too harsh.
A Ph.D? Self-taught computer programmer? Clearly this is someone who's operating at a very high intellectual level. It's a common trait for scientists and engineers to be farther up the autism scale than the average population, and one of the traits of high-functioning autism/asperger's is a strong desire to share personal interests at great lengths with others without understanding a lack of interest on their part.
But if he's a good person, I think a broader explanation than "you're boring me" will find some resonance. As an intellectually curious person, particularly with a Ph.D in neurobiology, I think he might be very interested to consider how the default functioning of his brain is affecting his interactions with other people. With that considered, I would hope/suspect he would at least try to take his wife's feelings into account, but I also think he would struggle to succeed...but some well-defined boundaries and soft reminders placed in a larger, non-"you're boring me" context could help him slowly change his pattern of behavior over time and work more consideration into his repertoire.
Also, he needs nerdy friends who like an earful. I'm liable to talk anyone's ear off about the variety of nerdy, technical things that interest me, but I definitely try to funnel it away from people who don't care toward people who do, with a fair deal of success.
A Ph.D? Self-taught computer programmer? Clearly this is someone who's operating at a very high intellectual level. It's a common trait for scientists and engineers to be farther up the autism scale than the average population, and one of the traits of high-functioning autism/asperger's is a strong desire to share personal interests at great lengths with others without understanding a lack of interest on their part.
But if he's a good person, I think a broader explanation than "you're boring me" will find some resonance. As an intellectually curious person, particularly with a Ph.D in neurobiology, I think he might be very interested to consider how the default functioning of his brain is affecting his interactions with other people. With that considered, I would hope/suspect he would at least try to take his wife's feelings into account, but I also think he would struggle to succeed...but some well-defined boundaries and soft reminders placed in a larger, non-"you're boring me" context could help him slowly change his pattern of behavior over time and work more consideration into his repertoire.
Also, he needs nerdy friends who like an earful. I'm liable to talk anyone's ear off about the variety of nerdy, technical things that interest me, but I definitely try to funnel it away from people who don't care toward people who do, with a fair deal of success.
110
@100: I didn't say she is, I said she can be. In general I like her advice, which is why I keep reading it. But she does make some absolutely terrible calls sometimes, like last year's latex fiasco, among others.
@Dan: I always assumed that was a holdover from before Margo Howard left, and I'm surprised you didn't change it after the "Kids who like gloves are going to be sex abusers" thing.
@Dan: I always assumed that was a holdover from before Margo Howard left, and I'm surprised you didn't change it after the "Kids who like gloves are going to be sex abusers" thing.
111
I am so glad that my boyfriend isn't like this. He is a self taught computer programmer who makes 6 figures in his industry even without a college degree. He is also the definition of a computer geek.
I have 2 graduate degrees in Education. My interests fall with methods to improve learning by adults with disabilities. I like the ballet, country music, shopping and supernatural mystery novels. He likes indie rock, Heinlein, gadgets and occultism. What do we talk about? All of it. We just limit our selves to not lecturing for hours on end.
If he won't take an interest in anything you are interested in the yes you night need to dump him.
I have 2 graduate degrees in Education. My interests fall with methods to improve learning by adults with disabilities. I like the ballet, country music, shopping and supernatural mystery novels. He likes indie rock, Heinlein, gadgets and occultism. What do we talk about? All of it. We just limit our selves to not lecturing for hours on end.
If he won't take an interest in anything you are interested in the yes you night need to dump him.
112
I've known a guy like this, only he was barely literate. He talked and talked and talked and talked at anyone who was close by. You didn't even have to feign interest: as long as you didn't stand up and leave, he would go on talking. You could probably start masturbating right in front of him, and he would still continue driving his point at you, sometimes interjecting his lecture with, "You get it?"
113
This guy is not only incredibly dense, but the LW makes it sound like he's had an entire personality change in the three years that they've been together! DTMFA, LW, and never look back!
114
@94: We can put it to bed when it stops being true for a large amount of the population. It's great that it doesn't affect you, but please try to remember that other people exist too.
115
Man, Aspies coming out of the woodwork on this one to comment defensively on how the guy is "just really smart," he's horribly put-upon by having a wife who's too stupid to understand him, and it's not his fault he's so "clueless." As @104 pointed out, every time she gives him a "clue," he punishes her for it!
Lecturing people endlessly about your area of professional interest has nothing to do with how "intelligent" you are. True intelligence involves being able to converse on a wide range of topics, and having perspective on your field. Most PhD's are aware that non-specialists won't grasp the details of what they do, so they don't subject them to detailed discourse. For that matter, that's also true of people who spend all day doing data entry and making Excel spreadsheets in a cubicle. Learn how to summarize, and get some non-work interests.
@109 if he needs a complex philosophical/neurobiological explanation to grasp the fact that people outside his field don't know his field, he must be barely able to function socially! How does he think he got a PhD and a web security job, other than by understanding technicalities that ~other people don't get~?
Bottom line, he's bringing his feelings into this issue (acting hurt if she's not interested), without showing a willingness to notice her feelings. This needs to change drastically or the marriage is doomed.
Lecturing people endlessly about your area of professional interest has nothing to do with how "intelligent" you are. True intelligence involves being able to converse on a wide range of topics, and having perspective on your field. Most PhD's are aware that non-specialists won't grasp the details of what they do, so they don't subject them to detailed discourse. For that matter, that's also true of people who spend all day doing data entry and making Excel spreadsheets in a cubicle. Learn how to summarize, and get some non-work interests.
@109 if he needs a complex philosophical/neurobiological explanation to grasp the fact that people outside his field don't know his field, he must be barely able to function socially! How does he think he got a PhD and a web security job, other than by understanding technicalities that ~other people don't get~?
Bottom line, he's bringing his feelings into this issue (acting hurt if she's not interested), without showing a willingness to notice her feelings. This needs to change drastically or the marriage is doomed.
116
why is every friggin programmer assumed to have some sort of syndrome?
if he was this way over something like box scores, would people make the same assumption?
yeah, they're not well suited. However they both seem to have a very strong need to be with someone who shares their own interests. There's the one thing they've got
if he was this way over something like box scores, would people make the same assumption?
yeah, they're not well suited. However they both seem to have a very strong need to be with someone who shares their own interests. There's the one thing they've got
118
They need to dump each other. She -- because he's an asshole (or unbelievably clueless, but I agree with the commenters here that most signs point towards asshole); and he -- because she's no match for him intellectually, and he needs someone who is.
@82: "Sounds like they got married while they were still infatuated, during that time when a partner's quirks and hobbies are interesting just because they're your partner's. "
Wow, that's sad. I kind of thought this time was supposed to be all the time! But maybe my partner and I are spoiled that way... I can't imagine not sharing his passionate interests, whatever these are or might become, and he does the same for me. We wouldn't settle for less.
@82: "Sounds like they got married while they were still infatuated, during that time when a partner's quirks and hobbies are interesting just because they're your partner's. "
Wow, that's sad. I kind of thought this time was supposed to be all the time! But maybe my partner and I are spoiled that way... I can't imagine not sharing his passionate interests, whatever these are or might become, and he does the same for me. We wouldn't settle for less.
119
really all i want to comment is that it's effing awesome that nearly everyone who comments on these posts put up something coherent, respectful and kind. don't think i've ever seen another comments section like it. no trolls!
@merula - i, also, am addicted to advice columns...haha ive never seen anyone else say that.
@merula - i, also, am addicted to advice columns...haha ive never seen anyone else say that.
120
really all i want to comment is that it's effing awesome that nearly everyone who comments on these posts put up something coherent, respectful and kind. don't think i've ever seen another comments section like it. no trolls!
@merula - i, also, am addicted to advice columns...haha ive never seen anyone else say that.
@merula - i, also, am addicted to advice columns...haha ive never seen anyone else say that.
121
I've been there--still am there. My husband is a philosopher. I was literature major. I work retail. He teaches philosophy. I know shit about philosophy--literary theory really didn't prepare me for people like Plato and Russell. But he has the habit of rambling on and on about philosophy, mostly because he likes to talk out his ideas. So I nod and stay quiet for a few hours. But after he tried to engage me with this subject for a few years, I finally flat out told him--I love you, but I didn't marry you so I could learn more about philosophy. I'll listen quietly, but don't think I'm gonna get revved up about Socrates or logical fallacies (phalluses, maybe). He was a little crushed, but then he met other people with the same philosophy kink. And he explores his little philosophy kink with other people, taking the pressure off of me.
As for him, he's literally fascinated and interested in everything. So it doesn't matter what I'm interested in, he wants to know about it. He's one of those crazy kinds of spouses that makes me feel like a bad person.
And maybe it makes me feel bad for telling him I didn't really care that much about philosophy (apart from the fact that he likes it so much), but you kinda have to be able to be that brutally honest with your spouse. And they have to be able to handle it. If you can't, or they can't, then I'd go with Dan--DTMFA. Especially if they're punishing you for your lack of interests. That's manipulative bullshit.
As for him, he's literally fascinated and interested in everything. So it doesn't matter what I'm interested in, he wants to know about it. He's one of those crazy kinds of spouses that makes me feel like a bad person.
And maybe it makes me feel bad for telling him I didn't really care that much about philosophy (apart from the fact that he likes it so much), but you kinda have to be able to be that brutally honest with your spouse. And they have to be able to handle it. If you can't, or they can't, then I'd go with Dan--DTMFA. Especially if they're punishing you for your lack of interests. That's manipulative bullshit.
122
To CI:
I agree with various people above that it sounds like he has Asperger's. (I have a hard time believing that normal guys would stop having sex in an attempt to manipulate their partners into listening to them talk about computer programming. But an Aspie? yeah.) CI, if you're reading this, you should check out "The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome" by Tony Attwood - probably can get it in a library, it's a bit of a tome. If, after reading that, you think Asperger's is a likely cause, you can talk to your husband about it and then, if appropriate, try for a diagnosis by a specialist ($500???). There are also self-tests on the Web which can definitively rule it out (but can only give a "definitely not" or a "maybe", not a "definite yes").
Although there's no cure, and no treatment, per se, for adults, I found being diagnosed to be very useful. It told me a lot about the world that I'd never guessed at. Because what people aren't understanding here is that if you have Asperger's, then the world looks very different to you than it does to a normal person. And if you don't know you have Asperger's, then you likely don't know that: you likely think your view of the world is the view everyone else sees, too. I think it's a lot like being red-green colourblind would be.
This makes a lot of the advice being suggested impractical. For example, #30 writes "You have to be able to read the people you're spouting off to." Well, yeah. But if **you don't know that it's possible** to "read" the people you're spouting off to, it's pretty hard to identify this as a skill you need to learn.
It also means that he MAY not really "grok" (understand deep down) that your interests are, in fact, different from his. Oh, sure, you say they are, and he gives lip service to that (and probably he understands that: I'm just speculating). But he may not understand that it's actually true - it may be inconceivable, literally, to him that you, in particular, could really be interested in any interests except his. The point is that IF he is actually an Aspie then he doesn't necessarily have a working Theory of Mind, and, if not, then this is the sort of POSSIBILITY you, as the person with the working Theory of Mind, have to consider.
The diagnosis taught me a lot about skills I don't have that others take for granted; it taught me that behaviour in others which I'd always thought intended to offend me was actually innocuous (most people wouldn't think of it as offensive behaviour); and last but not least it taught me that the feeling of being "different" I'd had my whole life wasn't craziness or paranoia but a perception of a real thing. It made the world make sense.
As for the original question, no, CI, you shouldn't have to put up with this and if he doesn't fix it then DTMFA is the only option. But hopefully you can figure out a solution that works. Perhaps he just wants someone to talk about this with: if so, he must be desperate, since that he's willing to compromise his marriage over it. But perhaps it's that he wants to share the most important thing in his life with the most important person in his life. I know that I've been there. He needs to understand that he needs to find an appropriate way to do that (and this isn't it).
More...
I agree with various people above that it sounds like he has Asperger's. (I have a hard time believing that normal guys would stop having sex in an attempt to manipulate their partners into listening to them talk about computer programming. But an Aspie? yeah.) CI, if you're reading this, you should check out "The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome" by Tony Attwood - probably can get it in a library, it's a bit of a tome. If, after reading that, you think Asperger's is a likely cause, you can talk to your husband about it and then, if appropriate, try for a diagnosis by a specialist ($500???). There are also self-tests on the Web which can definitively rule it out (but can only give a "definitely not" or a "maybe", not a "definite yes").
Although there's no cure, and no treatment, per se, for adults, I found being diagnosed to be very useful. It told me a lot about the world that I'd never guessed at. Because what people aren't understanding here is that if you have Asperger's, then the world looks very different to you than it does to a normal person. And if you don't know you have Asperger's, then you likely don't know that: you likely think your view of the world is the view everyone else sees, too. I think it's a lot like being red-green colourblind would be.
This makes a lot of the advice being suggested impractical. For example, #30 writes "You have to be able to read the people you're spouting off to." Well, yeah. But if **you don't know that it's possible** to "read" the people you're spouting off to, it's pretty hard to identify this as a skill you need to learn.
It also means that he MAY not really "grok" (understand deep down) that your interests are, in fact, different from his. Oh, sure, you say they are, and he gives lip service to that (and probably he understands that: I'm just speculating). But he may not understand that it's actually true - it may be inconceivable, literally, to him that you, in particular, could really be interested in any interests except his. The point is that IF he is actually an Aspie then he doesn't necessarily have a working Theory of Mind, and, if not, then this is the sort of POSSIBILITY you, as the person with the working Theory of Mind, have to consider.
The diagnosis taught me a lot about skills I don't have that others take for granted; it taught me that behaviour in others which I'd always thought intended to offend me was actually innocuous (most people wouldn't think of it as offensive behaviour); and last but not least it taught me that the feeling of being "different" I'd had my whole life wasn't craziness or paranoia but a perception of a real thing. It made the world make sense.
As for the original question, no, CI, you shouldn't have to put up with this and if he doesn't fix it then DTMFA is the only option. But hopefully you can figure out a solution that works. Perhaps he just wants someone to talk about this with: if so, he must be desperate, since that he's willing to compromise his marriage over it. But perhaps it's that he wants to share the most important thing in his life with the most important person in his life. I know that I've been there. He needs to understand that he needs to find an appropriate way to do that (and this isn't it).
123
@122, I had the same experience being diagnosed as ADD (pretty severely so) in my late 20s. Just being diagnosed and learning about the issue really let me know why I'd spent my life with such severe social and organizational issues. Knowing where my weaknesses and pitfalls are has allowed me to compensate for them and find ways to accomplish things in other ways. I never realized how different my perspective was from the majority of the people around me.
124
Hey Dan, something has begun to bother me here. When in a relationship with someone you love and care about, whether a friend or a partner, most people have an automatic instinct to want others to see this person in the best possible light, and tend to not talk about their shortcomings (real or imagined), faults, etc.
Here for example, you mention Terry's interest in dance "music" contrasted to your interest in Tudor history. Impressive, but why not instead compare it to your equally vapid interest in Broadway musicals? Or use his interest in art for a comparison? Are you aware of the image people have of Terry from the things you have said about him? Basically, an hysterical, swishy, dance "music" aficionado that likes to have things shoved up his ass (all your words from various talks, stories, etc.). Is this how you see him and would like others to see him? Do you really love this man, never mind respect him? While Terry had the class to ask that you don't discuss your sex life in public, maybe he should have included not denigrating each other in public as well.
Here for example, you mention Terry's interest in dance "music" contrasted to your interest in Tudor history. Impressive, but why not instead compare it to your equally vapid interest in Broadway musicals? Or use his interest in art for a comparison? Are you aware of the image people have of Terry from the things you have said about him? Basically, an hysterical, swishy, dance "music" aficionado that likes to have things shoved up his ass (all your words from various talks, stories, etc.). Is this how you see him and would like others to see him? Do you really love this man, never mind respect him? While Terry had the class to ask that you don't discuss your sex life in public, maybe he should have included not denigrating each other in public as well.
125
What a prick. Get him fixed or dump him, just don't have any kids before that. I'm serious, people assume that certain character flaws won't apply to their children, but they do, my dad was similar. It will seriously mess up your kid.
126
I'd read a dance music column by Terry more often than not. Hey Grant, how about it?
I hope that's not a totally idiotic suggestion: "The new Stranger, now written by staff husbands, wives, girlfriends and boyfriends!"
I hope that's not a totally idiotic suggestion: "The new Stranger, now written by staff husbands, wives, girlfriends and boyfriends!"
127
@124, Terry's a big boy who can look out for himself. Maybe you should think about why you are so invested in Dan's life that you insert yourself into his personal relationship?
Many bloggers (like novelists) write about the people in their lives; don't read if you don't like it, but I assume Terry understands what he signed up for being married to Dan.
Many bloggers (like novelists) write about the people in their lives; don't read if you don't like it, but I assume Terry understands what he signed up for being married to Dan.
128
124
Interesting insights.
Terry is in an uninviable position (as is The Kid....)
Dan holds his family up as proof that 'anything heteros can do homos can do better...".
Imagine the fallout if Dan's marriage goes bust.
Imagine the pressure on Terry to suck it up and be a good loyal adoringly gazing political wife for the sake of The Cause.
Dan is famously an arrogant asshole.
Slog's credulous fanboys lap it up but it has to get old on a daily basis.
What would become of Terry if he disappoints Dan and "spoils" the fairy tale marriage of America's Gay SpokesPrincess.
Hell hath no fury...
What disgusting bodily function would Dan name after Terry?
Santorum was just politics, after all- personal is sooo much more bitter.
So, yeah, Terry lives in a minefield.
And The Kid- if he slips up any at all will some other Asshole blogger give him the same treatment Dan has dished to Palin's children?
We can hope Dan is in a unique class of crass assholedness among bloggers but unfortunately that is probably not so.
What price will The Kid pay for Dan's assholery?
Interesting insights.
Terry is in an uninviable position (as is The Kid....)
Dan holds his family up as proof that 'anything heteros can do homos can do better...".
Imagine the fallout if Dan's marriage goes bust.
Imagine the pressure on Terry to suck it up and be a good loyal adoringly gazing political wife for the sake of The Cause.
Dan is famously an arrogant asshole.
Slog's credulous fanboys lap it up but it has to get old on a daily basis.
What would become of Terry if he disappoints Dan and "spoils" the fairy tale marriage of America's Gay SpokesPrincess.
Hell hath no fury...
What disgusting bodily function would Dan name after Terry?
Santorum was just politics, after all- personal is sooo much more bitter.
So, yeah, Terry lives in a minefield.
And The Kid- if he slips up any at all will some other Asshole blogger give him the same treatment Dan has dished to Palin's children?
We can hope Dan is in a unique class of crass assholedness among bloggers but unfortunately that is probably not so.
What price will The Kid pay for Dan's assholery?
129
@124
He might have used the dance "music" v Tudor history example because those are the subjects on which one partner truly does not give a fuck, and listens only out of politeness. I mostly just read the column every week, but impression from Dan is that he loves the fuck out of his husband.
He might have used the dance "music" v Tudor history example because those are the subjects on which one partner truly does not give a fuck, and listens only out of politeness. I mostly just read the column every week, but impression from Dan is that he loves the fuck out of his husband.
130
129
so much that he insists on the right to cheat on him or the "marriage" is off.
"love the fuck out of" may not mean what you imagine it does....
so much that he insists on the right to cheat on him or the "marriage" is off.
"love the fuck out of" may not mean what you imagine it does....
131
@130
I always got the impression that there is no "cheating," they have an open relationship with strict rules. Terry's allowed to sleep with other guys too. I don't see where you get the idea that Dan makes a lot of horrible demands and bullies Terry into staying with him. Then again, I spend very little time stalking them and as such my observations must be far less accurate than yours.
I always got the impression that there is no "cheating," they have an open relationship with strict rules. Terry's allowed to sleep with other guys too. I don't see where you get the idea that Dan makes a lot of horrible demands and bullies Terry into staying with him. Then again, I spend very little time stalking them and as such my observations must be far less accurate than yours.
132
@124 What's wrong with dance "music"? I just read it as an interest that Terry has. I didn't have some bizarre bigoted notion that it made Terry a worse person or that it was an inferior interest to Dan's interest. Maybe the problem with the example is that you prejudge people based on incredibly shallow traits, rather than anything that was actually inherent in the example.
133
[Note: I just opened up my browser window on my laptop to realize that the comment I wrote on the day of this post was still sitting there on the "preview" screen. Oops! I realize it's really late now, but I figured I'd hit "post" anyway.]
I feel kind of torn with this one. On the one hand, I can only imagine how frustrated she must feel. On the other, it really sounds like the husband is frustrated that he can't share the details of his day with his favorite person, and he isn't sure what to do with that frustration.
That said, if my boyfriend regularly sat me down and tried to talk to me about a single, complicated subject for over an hour, I'd probably lose it. It kind of sounds like this guy just needs to learn how to FILTER. Most people can respond to, "How was work?" in a few sentences, not an hour-long lecture. Additionally, I wouldn't let him get away with the guilt-tripping when the conversation goes south. If he calls her out on not being "curious" enough, she should call him out for drowning her in techno babble.
So, here's what I would say in this situation: "Hey, husband, I really like knowing how your day at work went. I always think about you during the day and wonder how you're doing. The thing is, I think you're over-sharing a bit, and all the technical info just goes over my head. When we get home, I just want to unwind with you, not re-live everything that happened all day at work. Plenty of things happen during my day that I know you wouldn't be interested in hearing described in detail. I just can't absorb all that computer language. What I do love hearing about in detail are the best parts of your day - what you accomplished, what you hope to do next, what made you laugh, etc. And, of course, any venting you need to do - what pissed you off, what do you hope doesn't happen next, etc. I hope that makes sense...Let's talk about this more. Love you!"
More...
I feel kind of torn with this one. On the one hand, I can only imagine how frustrated she must feel. On the other, it really sounds like the husband is frustrated that he can't share the details of his day with his favorite person, and he isn't sure what to do with that frustration.
That said, if my boyfriend regularly sat me down and tried to talk to me about a single, complicated subject for over an hour, I'd probably lose it. It kind of sounds like this guy just needs to learn how to FILTER. Most people can respond to, "How was work?" in a few sentences, not an hour-long lecture. Additionally, I wouldn't let him get away with the guilt-tripping when the conversation goes south. If he calls her out on not being "curious" enough, she should call him out for drowning her in techno babble.
So, here's what I would say in this situation: "Hey, husband, I really like knowing how your day at work went. I always think about you during the day and wonder how you're doing. The thing is, I think you're over-sharing a bit, and all the technical info just goes over my head. When we get home, I just want to unwind with you, not re-live everything that happened all day at work. Plenty of things happen during my day that I know you wouldn't be interested in hearing described in detail. I just can't absorb all that computer language. What I do love hearing about in detail are the best parts of your day - what you accomplished, what you hope to do next, what made you laugh, etc. And, of course, any venting you need to do - what pissed you off, what do you hope doesn't happen next, etc. I hope that makes sense...Let's talk about this more. Love you!"
134
There is a possibility that this person's husband may have Asperger's Syndrome which is a disorder on the autism spectrum. A keynote of AS is a tendency to obsessive interests often paired with an ability to store extraordinary amounts of information on that interest and, unfortunately, a tendency to share that information at length with limited awareness of how it's being received; AS folks have trouble grasping social cues but may be bright and well-spoken. Not enough info here to tell if that's the case but it's a possibility and if it were so this husband/couple would benefit from learning how to manage his disability.
136
I think I know what he's doing, because I see it at work ALL THE TIME. People who have Ph.D.s sometimes talk their way through whatever it is that they're trying to understand. This is the academic model. If they have an audience, great: it makes the understanding much easier. If not, they sometimes struggle to make sense of whatever arcane thing they're chewing on. Having an audience of enthralled graduate students (who are paying close attention because they might be next in line for a grant or assistantship) is enormously flattering. Now...notice that this guy doesn't have an audience or a classroom because he's doing computer stuff. But he's still forcing the partner into listening to the Guy With The Ph.D. and still sorting out his ideas in front of an audience. Aspie or not, he's being an asshole about it; if he could, he would deny his partner funding or an assistantship. Since he can't (and the partner isn't a grad student), he denies sex. *shudder* DTMFA.
137
Who denies sex because you won't listen to a dissertation on a topic that you've expressed no interest in? Who keeps talking about things that someone doesn't find interesting without finding common ground? It's one thing to talk about web security, but maybe he could find a way to make it more relatable to you.
My partner is doing her PhD, and she loses me all the time (though we're both trained in the same field, she's much more advanced than me) but she doesn't have any interest in cars or bicycles, which are two things that I enjoy. If I talk to her about car racing, I make it relate to her interests — the environment and achievements in fuel economy that some racing programs lead to.
This person's husband is a dick. Why can't he just find some middle ground? Being completely out of your element is no fun; why does he have no concern for her happiness? If he's going to talk like this to you for the rest of your life, leave now. It'll be more miserable when you have less of a physical relationship that relates you to one another.
“When entering into a marriage one ought to ask oneself: do you believe you are going to enjoy talking with this woman up into your old age? Everything else in marriage is transitory, but most of the time you are together will be devoted to conversation.” — Frederich Nietzsche
My partner is doing her PhD, and she loses me all the time (though we're both trained in the same field, she's much more advanced than me) but she doesn't have any interest in cars or bicycles, which are two things that I enjoy. If I talk to her about car racing, I make it relate to her interests — the environment and achievements in fuel economy that some racing programs lead to.
This person's husband is a dick. Why can't he just find some middle ground? Being completely out of your element is no fun; why does he have no concern for her happiness? If he's going to talk like this to you for the rest of your life, leave now. It'll be more miserable when you have less of a physical relationship that relates you to one another.
“When entering into a marriage one ought to ask oneself: do you believe you are going to enjoy talking with this woman up into your old age? Everything else in marriage is transitory, but most of the time you are together will be devoted to conversation.” — Frederich Nietzsche
138
Make him explain it to you so that you understand it, and so that it makes sense to you in terms of what's important to you. Ask him, '..so explain how that will that help people like me in my day to day life?'. Stop him every time you don't understand, and get him to break it down for you so that you do understand it. Either he'll get tired and give up, or you'll get a fascinating new mutual interest.
Worked for me!
Worked for me!
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