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News & ArtsTuesday, March 15, 2011
Panic / Enviro / International Totally Non-Editorialized Update from Japan
Posted by Goldy on Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 8:12 AM
I've been getting a lot of hate in the comment threads over my allegedly alarmist and irresponsible coverage of the unfolding nuclear crisis in Japan, so here's a big, fat block quote from Japan's Kyodo News service.
The aftermath of the catastrophic earthquake in Japan worsened Tuesday, with fears of the spread of radioactive materials becoming a reality following apparent hydrogen blasts at reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant.
[...] Radiation levels shot up even in Tokyo and its vicinity, prompting foreign embassies in Tokyo to urge their nationals in Japan to leave the country, while the transport ministry banned aircraft from flying within 30 kilometers of the troubled nuclear plant.
Prime Minister Naoto Kan urged people living between 20 to 30 kilometers of the plant to stay indoors, after radiation equivalent to 400 times the level to which people can be safely exposed in one year was detected near the No. 3 reactor at the plant.
Also from Kyodo, the number of confirmed dead or reported missing has climbed to over 10,000... the first time a natural disaster in Japan has surpassed that mark since the Great Kanto Earthquake of 1923.
As for the notoriously sensationalist BBC, they're reporting that the "US Navy says more of its personnel are testing positive for low-level radiation," and the US Army has urged personnel and families to "take precautions" at the Yokosuka and Atsugi bases after radiation was detected.
1
Nuclear apologists and Goldy haters in 5, 4, 3, .....
GOP, lobbyists and Nuclear think tank people are getting their money out of this bunch, at least from a word count standpoint.
GOP, lobbyists and Nuclear think tank people are getting their money out of this bunch, at least from a word count standpoint.
2
You'll never please everybody esp. defensive people who can't handle a statement on what you'd hypothetically do to protect your daughter. Thanks for paying attention to all those somewhat conflicting sources.
3
I don't think you've been alarmist. For the most part you're stating the facts. Shit's fucked up and could easily get more fucked up! There have been a bunch of very large explosions in the nuke plant. That's always a bad thing. Radiation has been leaking. Again, always a bad thing. Nobody really knows exactly what's going on inside because they can't get in there. Bad thing! They just revealed that they think up to 7 feet of nuclear fuel might be exposed creating a serious risk of meltdown. Really really bad thing!
To all the haters here. Goldy's been telling us what is happening as it's reported and then explaining what that could mean and what could happen as a result. That's not being alarmist, it's explaining the real risks of a really fucked up situation. It might result in a meltdown or it might not but any decent reporter should be telling us the facts and the potential outcomes. As more information is released it seems more and more likely that Goldy's been right about the risks on this the whole way.
To all the haters here. Goldy's been telling us what is happening as it's reported and then explaining what that could mean and what could happen as a result. That's not being alarmist, it's explaining the real risks of a really fucked up situation. It might result in a meltdown or it might not but any decent reporter should be telling us the facts and the potential outcomes. As more information is released it seems more and more likely that Goldy's been right about the risks on this the whole way.
5
Thousands of bodies are washing up on shore. Entire cities have been scraped off the face of the map. Stop freaking out about things you do not understand, and focus on ways you can actually help, rather than hurt through misdirection, the relief effort.
6
@5 First you're telling Golob to rescale a graph that he doesn't own and now you're projecting a freak-out where there is none. I'd say there's misdirection here, but probably not on the part of Goldy.
7
Goldy, all we're asking for is some sense of perspective as to the scale of potential disaster. In terms of near-term harm to human health, how much is currently at risk due to the incidents at the nuclear plants, vs, how much risk exists due to the issues of disease, starvation, dehydration, and the other results of infrastructure damage?
That is, please do not do the thousands already dead the disservice of ignoring them for a nuclear incident which may cause a comparatively small amount of risk. Please do not ignore those currently at risk of death due to the more prosaic and less "blogogenic" destruction due to the gigantic tidal wave.
That's all. Perspective, please. What we're telling you is that your anxieties about nuclear issues are leaking into your normally very reasonable reporting, and we find it to be bothersome, for the precise reason that we usually expect so much more in terms of rationality and reasonability.
That is, please do not do the thousands already dead the disservice of ignoring them for a nuclear incident which may cause a comparatively small amount of risk. Please do not ignore those currently at risk of death due to the more prosaic and less "blogogenic" destruction due to the gigantic tidal wave.
That's all. Perspective, please. What we're telling you is that your anxieties about nuclear issues are leaking into your normally very reasonable reporting, and we find it to be bothersome, for the precise reason that we usually expect so much more in terms of rationality and reasonability.
8
Just for "perspective" go visit HuffPo and look at the 36-42 pt. font (and accompanying siren gif) with sensational headline then compare that to Goldy's reposting of links. The nuclear thing is one more factor of the public health problems presented by the earthquake and the scale is indeterminate (remember, last Friday meltdown was impossible). To a degree, it's individual responsibility to seek a diversity of opinions and facts as they are known at the time. I am grateful that other people are aggregating that for me.
11
I am not a Goldy hater. I generally like Goldy's reporting overall. I just felt he was fanning the flames of panic on this one particular issue.
Nor am I an apologist. I don't like nuclear power. I think it is inherently dangerous, and we are no closer to solving the problems of disposing of nuclear waste than we were 50 years ago. And I never claimed that the problems with the Fukushima reactors was no big deal. It is a dangerous situation.
I merely tried to bring some level-headed perspective to the table. Much of the media coverage has been completely sensationalistic (as it is on most any subject these days), inaccurate, or simply wrong. I was just trying to understand how these reactors work, what exactly has gone wrong, and what the realistic dangers are, rather than freaking out over "mushroom clouds" and panicking about radioactive fallout thousands of miles away when no such danger exists, nor is likely to occur.
Nor am I an apologist. I don't like nuclear power. I think it is inherently dangerous, and we are no closer to solving the problems of disposing of nuclear waste than we were 50 years ago. And I never claimed that the problems with the Fukushima reactors was no big deal. It is a dangerous situation.
I merely tried to bring some level-headed perspective to the table. Much of the media coverage has been completely sensationalistic (as it is on most any subject these days), inaccurate, or simply wrong. I was just trying to understand how these reactors work, what exactly has gone wrong, and what the realistic dangers are, rather than freaking out over "mushroom clouds" and panicking about radioactive fallout thousands of miles away when no such danger exists, nor is likely to occur.
12
Ok, no one has said that there is not a danger at the nuclear plants. However, the calm & careful reading of the information coming out of Japan and the IAEA over the past week, things were progressing well, considering a 9.0 quake + 10m tsunami. Goldy making bold-italic statments like mushroom cloud is alarmist when the explosion was an anticipated and expected event when seawater is used to cool a reactor. So, alarmist is a charge that has validity.
NOW that things have changed, and that radiation is clearly leaking out, NOW we can begin a calm, clear, reasoned analysis of how bad, and what to do.
Also jambalaya @7 says it well too.
NOW that things have changed, and that radiation is clearly leaking out, NOW we can begin a calm, clear, reasoned analysis of how bad, and what to do.
Also jambalaya @7 says it well too.
17
"Nor am I an apologist. I don't like nuclear power...."
Sounds like "I am a hardcore lefty, but George Bush is just dreamy and so very smart! I love all his policies."
Sounds like "I am a hardcore lefty, but George Bush is just dreamy and so very smart! I love all his policies."
18
Congratulations, Goldy. You have somehow made this tragedy entirely about you. I'm not sure whether to applaud or scream.
19
My central point is that it's the nuclear industry and their fanboys who are the ones who suffer from poor risk assessment, and it's offensive to hear these people endlessly lecture everyone else on the relative risks of coal plants or airplanes or nuclear power. If they knew what they were doing, they would have built reactors in Japan to withstand a 9.0 magnitude quake, not to mention a tsunami. These unanticipated events actually happened, proving the nuclear industry risk assessment wrong. QED.
Especially a tsunami; even low magnitude quakes can cause waves that will flood your diesel generators, and failing to prepare for that proves that we're dealing with incompetents and bullshit artists.
It's the height of delusion to call critics of the nuclear industry crazy and hysterical when it's fans of nuclear power who are so pathologically wrong. Repeatedly wrong. They show a narrow, rigid mindset, which instantly rebuffs all criticism. I know a lot of paid flacks for the nuclear business have suddenly registered accounts on Slog; it's their job to peddle nuclear power and downplay the risks. But what's the excuse of you with no money at stake?
It's a lot like the ones who were saying the housing bubble would never burst and Wall Street's derivatives schemes were boon to mankind and who never saw the crash and the recession coming. The were so, so, so wrong, and they should shut up now and let the ones who predicted all this shit have the microphone.
Especially a tsunami; even low magnitude quakes can cause waves that will flood your diesel generators, and failing to prepare for that proves that we're dealing with incompetents and bullshit artists.
It's the height of delusion to call critics of the nuclear industry crazy and hysterical when it's fans of nuclear power who are so pathologically wrong. Repeatedly wrong. They show a narrow, rigid mindset, which instantly rebuffs all criticism. I know a lot of paid flacks for the nuclear business have suddenly registered accounts on Slog; it's their job to peddle nuclear power and downplay the risks. But what's the excuse of you with no money at stake?
It's a lot like the ones who were saying the housing bubble would never burst and Wall Street's derivatives schemes were boon to mankind and who never saw the crash and the recession coming. The were so, so, so wrong, and they should shut up now and let the ones who predicted all this shit have the microphone.
20
Tuesday Morning (in Japan):
"The utility said it could not deny the possibility that the early morning explosion was caused by hydrogen generated by a chemical reaction involving the exposed spent nuclear fuel and vapor."
Wednesday Morning:
"A fire broke out again early Wednesday at the troubled No. 4 reactor of the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant" --from Kyodo News
Maybe those assuring us that the spent fuel was safe were nuclear engineers whose only concern was nuclear explosions, not chemical ones. Spent fuel burns (chemically), explodes (chemically) and is incredibly toxic.
"The utility said it could not deny the possibility that the early morning explosion was caused by hydrogen generated by a chemical reaction involving the exposed spent nuclear fuel and vapor."
Wednesday Morning:
"A fire broke out again early Wednesday at the troubled No. 4 reactor of the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant" --from Kyodo News
Maybe those assuring us that the spent fuel was safe were nuclear engineers whose only concern was nuclear explosions, not chemical ones. Spent fuel burns (chemically), explodes (chemically) and is incredibly toxic.
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