Slog

News & Arts

Line Out

Music & the City
at Night

« Hey, There's an Unofficial Slog Hap… | You (May) Only Think the Adderall I… »

Tuesday, February 8, 2011

Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Mr. Republican Comes Around

Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 11:06 AM

I have a Republican friend with whom I've argued about every issue under the sun, including gay marriage, something I feel quite passionately about. He g-chatted me today to let me know that he's changed his mind, and I had to send the chat along to you because it so perfectly showcased a point you've made about the importance of coming out. (Sadly I'm straight, so I was no help there.) For years I argued with this guy until I was blue in the face, but it was finding out that he was actually friends with a gay person that finally did the trick.

N.B.

Thanks for sharing, N.B., and once again, queeros: coming out to friends, families, and coworkers is the single most important political act that a gay, lesbian, bi, or trans person can possibly take. Finally knowing a gay person—or finally knowing that they know a gay person—does more to change hearts and minds than anything else.

The text of N.B.'s chat with her Republican friend—with permission—is after the jump.

Republican Friend: You'll be REALLY happy to know something about me—a certain topic that we used to argue about. I've changed my mind. Take a wild guess.

NB: uh oh
it's hard to choose
we've argued about so much
hehehe

Republican Friend: no you know which one it is
one very particular issue that we are almost coming to blows on in your apartment one day

NB: gay marriage?

Republican Friend: yes

NB: oh i didn't know you were really against it
i kind of thought you were just effin' with me

Republican Friend: i was against judges mandating it
imposing things without people voting on it
or legislatures voting on it
as an actual act i was probably so so on it, but i never really knew any gay people, like not closely
and lo and behold
my friend from college who i never suspected comes out a few months ago
i started thinking more about it
i think it should become legalized no matter how its done now

NB: Oh, I'm so very very glad to hear that!

Republican Friend: although on most issues i prefer legislatures voting on shit, for the most part, like economic/fiscal issues, whether we go to war, crap like that.
but gay marriage, why the fuck should we care either way, what a waste of time to argue about it

NB: well i think you might agree more now that your friend has come out, it really is a civil rights issue, and by definition those can't really be left up to a vote.
otherwise we might still have segregated schools

Republican Friend: who said i didn't want segregated schools?
HA
i keed
i think knowing this guy made me think more about it
but DON'T tell anyone
i'm still Mr. Republican to those up there in Boston

Mr. Republican's friend came out to Mr. Republican and it's only a matter of time before for Mr. Republican—like a certain Bush twin I could name—comes out to his friends about being for marriage equality.

And here's hoping that all straight people everywhere will one day assume that they must know and like at least one gay person—or have at least one gay family member—even if they don't yet know which one of their friends or family members are gay, and that they'll back equality and fairness in anticipation of a friend, family member, or coworker coming out, not in the wake of it.

Comments (31) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment

Perversion is a monster of so frightful mien,
As to be rejected needs but to be seen;
Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,
we first endure, then pity, then embrace

Posted by Daddy-0 on February 8, 2011 at 11:22 AM

I always give liberals a hard time when they assume all Republicans think a certain way on social issues. Then this guy comes along and confirms he'd lose his cred with Republicans if they knew he couldn't give a crap if gays were allowed to marry. What a nightmare this two party system is.

Posted by cliche on February 8, 2011 at 11:30 AM

to add to Dan's comments: not just in anticipation of known family or friends ... think about possibly gay grandchildren or great-grandchildren not yet born. Do the right thing now and you won't have to roll over in your grave for making their lives more difficult.

Posted by peace 2 you on February 8, 2011 at 11:34 AM

Mr. Republican needs to come out w/ his support for gay marriage. If you hide your beliefs you might as well not have them.

Posted by Asparagus! on February 8, 2011 at 11:34 AM

"queeros"? how 'bout queerlings? :)

i have had mixed results with republicans... there's a certain slice of them that can be reasonable as per LW's friend. but there's others I've just had to cut out or agree to not discuss politics *at all*...

Posted by BEG

on February 8, 2011 at 11:35 AM

And going against the cause? Being an asshole gay. You gotta be a good guy gay that people like to get the support.

Posted by Confluence on February 8, 2011 at 11:37 AM

@4 Agreed. Dan, your should push for NB to start arguing for his Republican Friend to come out with his beliefs to his Boston friends. If he really believes that gay marriage should be allowed no matter how it comes about, then he should feel free to argue that point without feeling that it compromises his Republican credentials.

Posted by kcrobinson

on February 8, 2011 at 11:41 AM

Good point. Growing up knowing the openly gay guys in my dad's office back in the 70s (yay for arts careers) probably influenced me, although I'm sure I said stupid straight-assuming things to my kids before I really started paying attention to not doing that, and not making blanket hetero assumptions.

Posted by Canuck on February 8, 2011 at 11:51 AM

Now, if only Obama had a gay friend.

Posted by LJM on February 8, 2011 at 12:14 PM

It's not the republicans who are the bane of existence. Don't get me wrong, they suck and all and I don't want them anywhere near the government, but they're not the real problem with civil rights.

It's the religious fundamentalists who are the real problem. The two groups overlap much of the time, but still, religious craziness is the problem here, not republican craziness.

Posted by Urgutha Forka on February 8, 2011 at 12:22 PM

Eighty years ago, the conservative factions grudgingly accepted the idea of female suffrage.

Forty years ago, the conservative factions grudgingly accepted the idea of integration.

Seeing them grudgingly accept the idea of marriage equality - well, folks, you can't unwind a clock. Slow but steady. We have passed the tipping point. In a few more years, publicly making "fag" jokes will be every bit as unacceptable as making "n-word" jokes (I'm speaking of polite society; there will always be a coterie of lowlifes who find every form of vulgarity hilarious).

Posted by Geni on February 8, 2011 at 12:57 PM

The Republicans own the religious craziness, Urgutha Forka. They bought sometime ago. They use it, need it, to win elections, and their campaigns have promoted it and fostered it. If Republicans reek of fundamentalism, which they do, it's because they've been rubbing it on themselves for over 30 years.

Posted by Park on February 8, 2011 at 12:58 PM

@10: At times, I'm not sure which is worse:

The religious fundamentalists, for their rampant bigotry and hypocrisy?

Or the Republicans, who are willing to ally with rampant bigotry and fuck over a whole lot of gay people if it lets them give rich people more money.

Posted by I Hate Screen Names on February 8, 2011 at 1:01 PM

@7 and everyone who wants the Republican to come out to his Republican friends without losing his credibility with them:

Point that friend over to Ted Olsen's conservative arguments in favor of marriage equality. Teddy's got impeccable conservative street cred and he (and David Boies) are sharp as a tack.

I won't bother linking to anything in particular (Dan has been all over it, God Bless Him), but there's plenty out there from the piece in Newsweek last year ("The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage"), to numerous interviews and the entire Prop 8 Trial. Olsen's opening argument in the case was posted at the Prop 8 Trial Tracker (among other places) and it's a nice summary.

If you're going to argue with Republicans, you might as well use their language.

Posted by jasonzenobia

on February 8, 2011 at 1:20 PM

@2: I don't think he's worried about losing cred with Republicans. It sounds like he likes being the conservative voice among his liberal friends, and he doesn't want to have to admit to them that they were right and he was wrong about something.

Posted by pz on February 8, 2011 at 1:33 PM

@12 and 13,
Oh, I totally agree. The repubs have been in bed with the religious nuts for a long time (that was a delight to type) and when they get hit with the bigot label, they have only themselves to blame.

If no religious fanatics existed, I would be willing to bet a shiny new nickel that the republicans would be supporters of marriage equality for gays (i.e., smaller government, less nanny state laws, etc.). I could be wrong, but alas, we'll never know.

Anyway, yes, republicans are, by and large, bigots. If not in their hearts, then guilty by association.

Posted by Urgutha Forka on February 8, 2011 at 1:40 PM

I don't know. I had a similar experience, an online friend out in the Midwest who I'd argued passionately with for ages on the subject, and he kept up his whole "I don't hate gays, I just hate their gay pride parades and having to tell kids what gay sex is" sort of attitude. Then he dated and married a bi woman and within a week of dating her had changed his tune. Now they're divorced and he's back to his old views.

Posted by Karey on February 8, 2011 at 1:47 PM

Knowing a friend is gay never helped Fmr. Senator Santorum's views on the subject: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news…

This isn't an argument against coming out, of course, just a reminder of how awful some of the conservatives can be despite it. Not that this site is exactly a friend of the former senator's ;-)

Posted by Philly Liberal on February 8, 2011 at 1:57 PM

@1: "It is only the ignorant who despise education."
-Publilius Syrus
"Prejudices, it is well known, are most difficult to eradicate from the heart whose soil has never been loosened or fertilized by education; they grow there, firm as weeds among stones."
-Charlotte Bronte

Posted by venomlash on February 8, 2011 at 2:15 PM

Republican Friend sounds like a closeted liberal.

Posted by sirkowski

on February 8, 2011 at 3:04 PM

One more grain of sand adds to the growing mountain. It is only a shame that our leaders are following on this civil rights issue.

Posted by Ophian on February 8, 2011 at 4:13 PM

I applaud N.B. for willing to risk her friendship to attempt to persuade her friend, and I applaud her friend for finally realizing the truth of the matter. This is a great story, and I hope it persuades more people to make gentle attempts to sway their wayward friends, and more GLBTs to come out.

When I pressed a friend, using similar arguments (there is such a thing as religious freedom, there are a million contradictions in the bible incl. the things about gays, it's not changing marriage it's just giving access to a disfavored group, there is nothing "harmful" or "sinful" about gay sex, condemnation actually causes gays' mental health issues and not the other way round (there are many statistics to prove this) it just pushed him away. When I spoke to him about it in person, he would get this terrified look in his eyes, tense up, and stop responding. Hopefully if he ever makes a gay friend (he explicitly stated he avoids them), his mind will change.

The problem with most Republicans, in my view, is that they base their pride on being able to look down on people and being able to feel morally superior. If you say to them, "Hey guess what, there's really no reason/use in hating on blacks/gays/mexicans/muslims," what they hear is, "Hey, the reason you felt like a good big strong man since you were a kid actually means you're a total jerk AND you need to completely rebuild your self-esteem". That is too scary for most of them and they will just flee with a cloud of circular arguments in their wake.

Posted by CharlesF on February 8, 2011 at 4:28 PM

Gee whiz, you've figures it out.

Call me a bitch, but I'm not really enthralled with the idea of patting someone on the back for NOT being a bigot.

Posted by pastaefagoli on February 8, 2011 at 4:42 PM

Uh, I couldn't get past "hehehe."

Posted by seatackled on February 8, 2011 at 4:56 PM

Ok now maybe dan needs to get to know some poly folks. On podcast 224 he goes off just like a republican about poly relationships never lasting more than three years. A. That is untrue--get to know more of us! And B. Does that mean the relationships are bad? From dan's own mouth, longevity does not equal quality.

Posted by s,a on February 8, 2011 at 5:45 PM

Some people really can't have equal amounts of love for seven, as they can for one. There may be an infinite amount of love in a poly's heart, but there are only 24 hours in a day. And let's face it, a large portion of our relationships directly correlate to time spent together.

I can't tell someone that they don't love all three of their significant others, but I sure as hell don't have to believe them.

Posted by pastaefagoli on February 8, 2011 at 6:08 PM

@26 -- Presumably the same logic tells us that only children are more loved than children with siblings, and that children don't love married parents as much as single parents.

To my mind, that indicates something wrong with the logic, but what do I know? Perhaps all of those things are true.

Posted by TheOtherDave on February 9, 2011 at 9:30 AM

Not too long ago I came out to some friends, one of which is a republican. Over the course of the hour and half conversation that we had he made a number of touching remarks including: “Let’s go to a gay bar. I’ll be your wingman”, “I love you”, and “I’m sorry for ever saying faggot around you”. For those of us who too often rush classify republicans in a certain way (myself definitely included) it’s important to take a step back every once in a while to appreciate why we became friends in the first place… We have become better friends ever since that day.

Posted by michaerd on February 9, 2011 at 10:24 AM

@27: you deny parents pick favorites? I certainly was not the favorite out of the five of us growing up, and I got way more attention in the first 7 years of my life that I spent as an only child, than after my siblings were born. Now that the elder of us are grown, the ones still in the house get more attention than any of us did when we were all together. The youngest two are the clear favorites.

For another example: take childhood best friends. Sure, you may have run in a group of five or ten friends, but really, weren't you closest with one or two other people? Of course you were, unless you had nobody at all :(.

So, yeah, I'd think my logic follows. It's not nice to say or think about but it is true in many cases.

It's also funny how "polyamorous" is now synonymous with open relationship. My understanding was that the two were quite different.

Posted by pastaefagoli on February 9, 2011 at 8:47 PM

Oh, and comparing parent-child love with romantic partner love is laughable. They're not even almost the same thing.

Posted by pastaefagoli on February 9, 2011 at 9:23 PM

Okay, you're right, Dan, but it pisses me off. The idea that we can only accept an idea outside our comfort zone if someone we loved is involved sucks ASS. Hey Christians, ain't you sposta love one another like you love JC?

Posted by ggg on February 10, 2011 at 12:23 AM