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News & ArtsThursday, January 20, 2011
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: She Who Will Not Be Ignored
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 4:28 PM
I've written before, but didn't hear back from you. Probably because my email didn't contain flogging or santorium or whatever. But I won't be IGNORED, Dan.I'm a 32-year-old female. Second marriage, two kids. One with my ex and one with the man I cheated on him with and my current husband. My problem: a year ago I found my "first love" on a social network. I'd been looking for him off and on for more than sixteen years. This person was a jerk who left me for one of my friends back in high school. But he was and still the love of my life. Always has been. Always will be. He is not married and never has been married and has no children. We began an affair about seven months after finding each other. My marriage, my second marriage, had been rocky before this. My second husband, of three years, stopped having sex with me after I became pregnant and this continued after our child was born. We tried counseling. It didn't help. In no way am I using this as an excuse. I know what I've done is wrong. But I also have a pretty bad track record and I've cheated on every man I've ever been with except for my "first love."
This man, my first love, is the worst person in the world for me. Yet I'm in love with him. I have ALWAYS been in love with him. He wants me to leave my white-collar husband for him, a very-blue collar guy. I live in a nice home in the suburbs, my first love lives in a small apartment in the city. Five months after we began having sex with each other my current husband found out. Instead of leaving me, he has turned into a different man. Extremely loving and attentive. He says this experience has made him realize how much he loves me and that doesn't want to lose me.
My other problem: I didn't begin this affair to get my second husband's attention. I began it because I'm in love with my first love and always have been. My husband knows of my deep feelings for my "first." I mention divorce often, but it falls on deaf ears. I want to do what is best for my kids and that would be staying right where I am. But I feel my only chance for "true" love, if there's such a thing, is passing me by. I've never felt for anyone as I do for this man. Every man who that has come into my life AFTER him knew about him and knew that if he ever came back for me, I was gone. This includes my current husband. Dan, pull out all the stops on this one, as you famously do, and please tell me what to do.
Serial Cheater In Love
My response after the jump...
••••••••••••••••••
I didn't respond to your earlier pleas for help, SCIL, because I didn't have much to say to you. I still don't. I had the same reaction reading your email today that I had reading all the other emails you've sent me about your situation. My reaction is a little selfish and I'm a little embarrassed to share it with you. But you keep pressing me, SCIL, and so here it is:
THIS BITCH CAN GET LEGALLY MARRIED AND I CAN'T?!?!
Sorry, sorry, sorry. That was cunty of me, I realize, nowhere near the level of respectful professionalism that people expect of me. So I'm gonna make amends by scrounging up some of that advice shit you're after—my readers will doubtless have lots to say to you too—but on one condition: that you don't write me ever again.
Okay!
You say you've cheated on every man you've ever been with the exception of your "first love," SCIL. You seem to be operating under the assumption that you never cheated on him because he's the love of your life and that he's the love of your life because you never cheated on him. No. You never cheated on him, SCIL, because you never got around to it. You two broke up when you were fifteen. If you'd been with him a little longer, you would've cheated on him like you've cheated on everybody else. And if you leave your current husband and break up your first child's second home and your second child's first, it won't be long before you're cheating on the love of your life too. Because you're a cheater, SCIL, you're the kind of person who couldn't and shouldn't make monogamous commitments.
Or get married. Or have children.
So what should you do. Stay? Go? Frankly, SCIL, I don't give a fuck what you do. And, stay or go, it's not going to make fuck of a lot of difference. Your personal life is a mess, SCIL, and always be. Because, you see, wherever you go, there you are.
That said: If your current husband doesn't mind being cheated on, if he can put up with your affairs, I think you should stay with him for the sake of your kids. They deserve whatever stability and continuity you scrounge up between infidelities. And, again, if you leave your current husband for the love of your life, SCIL, it won't be long before you're cheating on your third husband and preparing to uproot your kids a third/second time again. I know it, you know it, everyone reading this knows it.
So just stay put, okay?
1
wtf. Love of your life is a turd from high school? Most people change a hell of a lot after high school.
3
Leave the kids and go chase your "true love." You're too silly, selfish and immature to be a parent.
4
Isn't that just marvelous, to think that someday gay marriages will be just as likely sloppy loveless unions of convenience with kids attached as anybody else's?
We shall overcome....
We shall overcome....
5
The first paragraph sounds just like the character Flip from Connie Willis's Bellwether.
And what's up the the listing of the marriages and kids? Two marriages & two kids but one of the kids was with someone she wasn't married to, right? Confusing. Sounded like there were 3 of something. Or no, wait, is the current husband the one she cheated on the first one with?
People like this need flowcharts and diagrams and crap.
And what's up the the listing of the marriages and kids? Two marriages & two kids but one of the kids was with someone she wasn't married to, right? Confusing. Sounded like there were 3 of something. Or no, wait, is the current husband the one she cheated on the first one with?
People like this need flowcharts and diagrams and crap.
9
I hope responding back does not backfire on you, Dan. The LW reminds me of my charming and stubborn son, he thought if he just kept repeating himself things would change. Fortunately, he's no longer a preschooler.
To the LW,
You've fallen for the one true love myth. It doesn't exist. He does not exist for you. Relationships require work and an adult decision to choose to love someone when they act like an arse. You are acting like an arse. The grass is not greener. If you really want a life partner, you have to put in the time and pay the price of admission, it is not for either soft cocks or Palin's. I suggest counseling. Just my $0.02.
WT;SN
To the LW,
You've fallen for the one true love myth. It doesn't exist. He does not exist for you. Relationships require work and an adult decision to choose to love someone when they act like an arse. You are acting like an arse. The grass is not greener. If you really want a life partner, you have to put in the time and pay the price of admission, it is not for either soft cocks or Palin's. I suggest counseling. Just my $0.02.
WT;SN
12
I'm with @3 - because "first love" is never going to be able to handle two kids, and it would be a huge mistake to go there. And "second husband" is obviously yesterday's news.
I wonder how long it will take before she cheats on "first love."
I wonder how long it will take before she cheats on "first love."
13
Since Dan nailed the basics, I'll make a stray observation.
Come on, people who are annoyed Dan hasn't answered your letter. How many letters do you think Dan gets in an average day?
I'm guessing at least a thousand.
Come on, people who are annoyed Dan hasn't answered your letter. How many letters do you think Dan gets in an average day?
I'm guessing at least a thousand.
14
Ahhh, the Dan Savage velvet touch! I wonder if she really wrote 'ignored' in all caps? She probabley did, the compulsively promiscuous are usually attention junkies.
15
This girl sounds like she is still in high school. A completely self involved, short attentioned spanned, little whiny bitch. I know that's harsh, but she needs to grow up and think of her children. Sadly, I don't think it will happen. The poor kids are going to be constantly uprooted and most likely become mysogynists with an exmaple like her. I hope the second husband gets custody (I know bitchy, but it's then end of the day and I hate people like this).
16
I can't say this is a problem with just the straights. I've seen the gays do this song and dance too. They just don't have children and marriages in the mix.
And, they're generally younger than 32.
And, they generally are looking for attention.
This woman, like the afore mentioned gay drama queens, is a complete and utter selfish bitch floundering in her own soap opera sick. She needs to leave the second child of less than 3 years old with her current second husband, return the first child to the first husband, and go on uprooting herself for awhile.
Poor kids. They didn't choose her.
And, they're generally younger than 32.
And, they generally are looking for attention.
This woman, like the afore mentioned gay drama queens, is a complete and utter selfish bitch floundering in her own soap opera sick. She needs to leave the second child of less than 3 years old with her current second husband, return the first child to the first husband, and go on uprooting herself for awhile.
Poor kids. They didn't choose her.
18
Wow. Nailed on all counts. I'd also recommend counseling, in addition to whatever you do. And WHATEVER you do, don't get married again. That's not what you appear to be here for.
Wow. Just ... wow.
Wow. Just ... wow.
19
Dan, I loved your RESPONSE. I'm not surprised LW is on her second rocky marriage, because she sounds like a DOUCHE. I feel SORRY for her kids, hopefully the second husband is a good dad. LW should get her tubes TIED and break her CAPSLOCK key.
21
Oh thank god. Reading this letter, I thought, there is no answer Dan can come up with that will satisfy my longing to reach into the screen and smack this unbelievable asshole and what do you know if he didn't come through after all.
I was willing to give the LW credit for being merely deluded and emotionally immature, but when I read
"Every man who that has come into my life AFTER him knew about him and knew that if he ever came back for me, I was gone,"
I had to concede that, no, she's actually a shitty human being who has somehow managed to reach 32 and motherhood without growing one little bit since she was a teenager. Blech.
I was willing to give the LW credit for being merely deluded and emotionally immature, but when I read
"Every man who that has come into my life AFTER him knew about him and knew that if he ever came back for me, I was gone,"
I had to concede that, no, she's actually a shitty human being who has somehow managed to reach 32 and motherhood without growing one little bit since she was a teenager. Blech.
23
32 and you're still like this, LW? If you didn't get over this kind of crazy shit by the age of 25, you took a wrong turn somewhere in life. Wow.
24
Parenting like this is the reason why public bathrooms in America are always look like a bomb went off in them.
25
I don't know how old those kids are, but I hope they can get out from under this ASAP. Once they're gone she can screw up as many times as she wants without hurting anyone else, except the men who are unlucky enough to be around her.
Lady: forget about your stupid love life and parent your damn kids. And if you do run off with High School Loser, use birth control.
Who's the NFL player with nine kids by eight different moms? Sheesh.
Lady: forget about your stupid love life and parent your damn kids. And if you do run off with High School Loser, use birth control.
Who's the NFL player with nine kids by eight different moms? Sheesh.
26
"This person was a jerk who left me for one of my friends back in high school. But he was and still the love of my life. Always has been. Always will be."
And you're a fucking headcase. Always have been. Always will be.
Get some help, woman. Sweet raptor jesus, you have the emotional intelligence of a cocker spaniel. You're chasing after a vague but pathologically obsessive memory of some twerp from high school, but like an idiot dog chasing cars, if you ever manage to catch one, the best possible outcome is that you won't know what to do with it and the disappointment will leave you crestfallen in the middle of the road, waiting to be run over by a bus.
And you're a fucking headcase. Always have been. Always will be.
Get some help, woman. Sweet raptor jesus, you have the emotional intelligence of a cocker spaniel. You're chasing after a vague but pathologically obsessive memory of some twerp from high school, but like an idiot dog chasing cars, if you ever manage to catch one, the best possible outcome is that you won't know what to do with it and the disappointment will leave you crestfallen in the middle of the road, waiting to be run over by a bus.
(THE BUS REPRESENTS TIME. BECAUSE THEY'RE ON SCHEDULES, GET IT? HA HA, YES. THAT WAS A GOOD ONE. I THOUGHT I SHOULD POINT THAT OUT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE AN IDIOT.)
27
I am really not sure who I feel sorry for here. Well the kids, who apparently have a whiny self absorbed mom, but not sure there is anyone else...
28
I would also recommend sterilization for SCiL. I feel pity for everyone in this mess's life, especially her children.
31
Wow, what a self-centered cunt. My personal advice? Leave your current husband, who is obviously wayyyy too good for you, make sure he gets to keep the kiddies (because damn, bitch, no way should they be raised by you) and then go screw the love of your life's brains out for six months until you get tired of him and some other guy comes along. Just please, please, please get your tubes tied now, before you fuck up any more kids' lives by your sociopathic self-interest.
32
Hope she gets her tubes tied before she gets married a third time.
This lady makes my infertility all the more painful.
This lady makes my infertility all the more painful.
35
I'm sure Dan posted this letter to show the self-appointed defenders of marriage who they actually need to defend it from.
36
Holy cats. I have no words, and no useful advice, unless this woman can somehow lay her hands on a time machine, in which case traveling back a decade to warn herself to under no circumstances get married or have kids seems appropriate.
Also, I want to start a betting pool on which happens first: she cheats on Mr. Blue Collar Love Of Her Life, or he flees the state and changes his name. Because it's all fun and games to screw the hot-to-trot wife when the desperate husband is taking care of the kids and holding down the fort at home, but actually marrying or in any way settling down with an obsessive headcase with two kids by two different dads? Yeah, I'm not seeing that happen.
Also, I want to start a betting pool on which happens first: she cheats on Mr. Blue Collar Love Of Her Life, or he flees the state and changes his name. Because it's all fun and games to screw the hot-to-trot wife when the desperate husband is taking care of the kids and holding down the fort at home, but actually marrying or in any way settling down with an obsessive headcase with two kids by two different dads? Yeah, I'm not seeing that happen.
39
Dan, I can't believe you were able to resist putting "the love of your life" in quotes. Because, sheesh.
40
She will not ever be happy in any relationship she has because it sounds like her "life" ended in high school (and apparently in the arms of her "first love"). I feel sorry for her children who have a mother who is so self involved, so callous, so damaged beyond repair that they will be lucky to pay for their college tuition with the money they receive from their future stints on Teen Mom.
And to LW - once you have kids, all bets are off. If you have a man at home who is willing to put up with your sorry ass and provide for you and your kids - you best stay put. Just like you can't fit into your powder blue prom dress anymore, relationships from high school shouldn't fit in your "adult" life either.
If our dumbass government won't allow gays to marry why don't they initiate a lifelong ban on marriage for assholes like this woman and for anyone stupid enough to get her pregnant.
And to LW - once you have kids, all bets are off. If you have a man at home who is willing to put up with your sorry ass and provide for you and your kids - you best stay put. Just like you can't fit into your powder blue prom dress anymore, relationships from high school shouldn't fit in your "adult" life either.
If our dumbass government won't allow gays to marry why don't they initiate a lifelong ban on marriage for assholes like this woman and for anyone stupid enough to get her pregnant.
41
The obvious best choice here is for her to get a tubal ligation and put her kids up for adoption.
She's a complete moron, and any guy stupid enough to knock her up must be a lousy father.
The kids will be better off, she will get what seems most important to her and the current husband will eventually straighten out his life.
She's a complete moron, and any guy stupid enough to knock her up must be a lousy father.
The kids will be better off, she will get what seems most important to her and the current husband will eventually straighten out his life.
45
The Sanctity of Marriage must be protected from the Homos. This woman MUST be the poster Child for the Sanctity of Marriage, that kids do best with a Mom and a Dad (even if no one knows who produced whom). Amen let us pray.
46
Wait, wait, WHY doesn't the husband want to lose her? I swear, if I fucked up to the point of MARRYING this crazy person, I'd JUMP on ANY chance to divorce her. (Also, would fight to keep the damn kids, because sheesh)
47
Am I the only person that thinks this isn't that unusual? Yes, she's a cheater. Yes, she's selfish. Yes, she shouldn't drag her kids into this. However, I think this situation isn't all that uncommon. Don't we all look back fondly on our "first true love?" It would only stand to reason that a good number of people would jump at the opportunity to go back to that level passion. Most of us know better, or think we would, but I'm sure there are some that would give in to the emotional high, despite the consequences.
My guess is that she knew Dan would crack down on her, but actually needed him to do it. I feel awful for the kids and hubby #2, but I'm hopeful that this is the kick in the ass she needed.
My guess is that she knew Dan would crack down on her, but actually needed him to do it. I feel awful for the kids and hubby #2, but I'm hopeful that this is the kick in the ass she needed.
49
@47: "Don't we all look back fondly on our 'first true love?'"
I myself look back with deep shame and embarrassment. God, was I young and stupid.
I myself look back with deep shame and embarrassment. God, was I young and stupid.
50
Well she sounds like a real prize.
I'm with Dan. If her husband is providing a stable environment for those kids, which their mother certainly isn't, and he's willing to stay with her despite her cheating, then stay put. And get some fucking counseling for god's sake, you're a disaster. You've never felt about anyone the way you felt about a dude you dated when you were 15, so he must be your only shot for true love? Are you living in a bad Harlequin novel?
I'm with Dan. If her husband is providing a stable environment for those kids, which their mother certainly isn't, and he's willing to stay with her despite her cheating, then stay put. And get some fucking counseling for god's sake, you're a disaster. You've never felt about anyone the way you felt about a dude you dated when you were 15, so he must be your only shot for true love? Are you living in a bad Harlequin novel?
51
@47 I look back fondly on my big high school unrequited love, but I don't ruin my life obsessing about him. I didn't try and break up his senior-year relationship even though his girlfriend was one of my "friends" who started dating him a couple weeks after I pointed him out to her as my crush. I would never dump a boyfriend to be with him either, even though he's only gotten hotter as the years passed.
53
I can't understand how she imagined Dan's advice would be anything but extremely critical of her.
54
I'm betting her current husband isn't nearly as happy with this situation as she'd like to believe.
55
@19: Damn you woman! You made me spit out my Dennis Dale Commemoration Manhattan! Bad Canuck! No Cupcake!
56
Dan got it basicly right.
there is no happy ending here.
she is a selfish whore and a stupid slut.
we need to review the difference between 'love' and 'lust' and 'infatuation'.
we also need to grow up.
if your husband(s) will take the kid(s) divorce and get out of their lives and have yourself fixed (not in that order...)
social network sites make it easy to look up high school sweethearts. we grow up, adulthood sux, we fondly remember those early carefree 'loves'. it is tempting to abandon adult responsibilities and flee back to our youth. except we can't.
all we can do is totally fuck up our Real World lives and hurt the people that have a right to depend on us.
recap-
you're a selfish stupid cheating whore slut and your kids will be better off if you're dead. have you considered that option?
there is no happy ending here.
she is a selfish whore and a stupid slut.
we need to review the difference between 'love' and 'lust' and 'infatuation'.
we also need to grow up.
if your husband(s) will take the kid(s) divorce and get out of their lives and have yourself fixed (not in that order...)
social network sites make it easy to look up high school sweethearts. we grow up, adulthood sux, we fondly remember those early carefree 'loves'. it is tempting to abandon adult responsibilities and flee back to our youth. except we can't.
all we can do is totally fuck up our Real World lives and hurt the people that have a right to depend on us.
recap-
you're a selfish stupid cheating whore slut and your kids will be better off if you're dead. have you considered that option?
57
But I won't be IGNORED, Dan.
Anybody else catch that she was quoting Glenn Close's character in Fatal Attraction? Right down to the name "Dan," even. That speaks volumes.
Emotional tumult has never been so perky. I guess it has to be when it's clearly what this woman thrives on.
Anybody else catch that she was quoting Glenn Close's character in Fatal Attraction? Right down to the name "Dan," even. That speaks volumes.
Emotional tumult has never been so perky. I guess it has to be when it's clearly what this woman thrives on.
59
37
we're not sure what you're after, ritardo-
this woman is a miserable cheat who hurts everyone close to her and dishonors her marriage vows.
is there something else?.....
we're not sure what you're after, ritardo-
this woman is a miserable cheat who hurts everyone close to her and dishonors her marriage vows.
is there something else?.....
60
@26: Whoa, that's really harsh and totally uncalled for. Cocker spaniels are loyal, loving creatures who brighten up the lives of all around them...
61
If I had to take a guess at a consistent principle Dan advocates in maintaining a romantic relationship it's that:
a. you can be slick in it if your romantic relationship is your first priority, or
b. you can make your romantic relationship something other than your first priority if you are not slick,
but you cannot make your romantic relationship something other than your first priority, and be slick in it, at the same time.
Dan is not feeling generous, we're all human, and his account may be different than how it seems to an outsider like me. But for your case, the principle as I've observed it still seems to apply: don't be slick with your husband, if your boyfriend isn't your first priority don't be slick with him (there doesn't seem to be much to be slick with in his case), and if your children aren't your first priority know they will pay for every slickness you pull on them. For when your slickness catches up to whatever is your first priority, keep the principle you've been following on the tip of your tongue.
a. you can be slick in it if your romantic relationship is your first priority, or
b. you can make your romantic relationship something other than your first priority if you are not slick,
but you cannot make your romantic relationship something other than your first priority, and be slick in it, at the same time.
Dan is not feeling generous, we're all human, and his account may be different than how it seems to an outsider like me. But for your case, the principle as I've observed it still seems to apply: don't be slick with your husband, if your boyfriend isn't your first priority don't be slick with him (there doesn't seem to be much to be slick with in his case), and if your children aren't your first priority know they will pay for every slickness you pull on them. For when your slickness catches up to whatever is your first priority, keep the principle you've been following on the tip of your tongue.
62
Shorter Version:
Dan, I'm a self-centered CPOS with two baby daddies. Can I keep fucking this guy I fucked in high school until I get tired of him and find someone new to fuck, while still having my second baby daddy pay for shit?
Dan, I'm a self-centered CPOS with two baby daddies. Can I keep fucking this guy I fucked in high school until I get tired of him and find someone new to fuck, while still having my second baby daddy pay for shit?
64
I was lucky enough to spend a year and a half with "my first true love." Found out he was an asshole.
65
@13 - I'm now burning with curiosity to know the answer. I don't think I'd actually be surprised if Dan got more than a thousand emails a day, if you include all the people that write in to respond to columns, or to pass on some sex-related news item - not to mention the hate mail that I'm sure he gets. I'd bet that even aside from that he gets at least a few hundred "this is my problem, please help me!" letters daily. Many of which are probably kind of boring problems that he's written about dozens of times before.
Dan, if you're reading these comments, inquiring minds want to know - how much mail DO you get?
Dan, if you're reading these comments, inquiring minds want to know - how much mail DO you get?
66
@Dan: Perfect
@16: Are you really that stupid? "I can't say this is a problem with just the straights. I've seen the gays do this song and dance too. They just don't have children and marriages in the mix."
If they are not married and they don't have kids, then it is not the same song and dance. It's not even in the same fucking musical. The point is not that she sleeps around, or even that she can't be faithful to anyone. The only reason this is a tragedy and not just the story of another low self esteem slut is because SHE IS MARRIED AND HAS FUCKING KIDS.
Asshole.
@16: Are you really that stupid? "I can't say this is a problem with just the straights. I've seen the gays do this song and dance too. They just don't have children and marriages in the mix."
If they are not married and they don't have kids, then it is not the same song and dance. It's not even in the same fucking musical. The point is not that she sleeps around, or even that she can't be faithful to anyone. The only reason this is a tragedy and not just the story of another low self esteem slut is because SHE IS MARRIED AND HAS FUCKING KIDS.
Asshole.
67
MY VAGINA NEEDS A NEW DICK!!!!! MY VAGINA NEEDS A NEW DICK!!!!! MY VAGINA NEEDS A NEW DICK!!!!!!
oh my, I'm sorry folks I...it just kinda came out. It won't happen again, please excuse my poor behavior. I will aim to be more civil and thoughtful in the future with my comments. Good day to you and yours.
sincerely,
Trucker Joe
oh my, I'm sorry folks I...it just kinda came out. It won't happen again, please excuse my poor behavior. I will aim to be more civil and thoughtful in the future with my comments. Good day to you and yours.
sincerely,
Trucker Joe
68
@16: if you are interested in, you know, learning something, start here.
http://waxbanks.typepad.com/blog/2005/11…
http://waxbanks.typepad.com/blog/2005/11…
69
MY VAGINA NEEDS A NEW DICK!!!!! MY VAGINA NEEDS A NEW DICK!!!!! MY VAGINA NEEDS A NEW DICK!!!!!!
oh my, I'm sorry folks I...it just kinda came out. It won't happen again, please excuse my poor behavior. I will aim to be more civil and thoughtful in the future with my comments. Good day to you and yours.
sincerely,
Trucker Joe
oh my, I'm sorry folks I...it just kinda came out. It won't happen again, please excuse my poor behavior. I will aim to be more civil and thoughtful in the future with my comments. Good day to you and yours.
sincerely,
Trucker Joe
70
@57- Wow. Quoting Marquise Isabelle de Merteuil would seem to indicate she's aware of the fact she's pointlessly ruining lives.
71
Wow, at least three men were willing to sleep with this hell-on-wheels bitch? Those must be some class-A titties.
74
Wasn't this the plot of "Desperately Seeking Susan"?
Only in the film she gets hit on the head before going nutso.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5pQAf2_bHfU/Sa…
76
Being a parent is a great privilege. We get to be selfish for a long time before we're parents, and we get to be selfish again when the kids are gone. Those eighteen years fly by. Why not put the fucking drama on hold for a bit to enjoy what you'll never get another chance to enjoy again?
Honestly. Bitch is addicted to drama. Her poor kids.
Honestly. Bitch is addicted to drama. Her poor kids.
77
This letter sounds exactly like the sort of thing I would expect my dumb-cunt sister to come up with.
Who the fuck more than barely remembers people they dated in high school, let alone obsesses over them for over sixteen goddamned years? Holy shit, this woman is Coutney Love level crazy.
Who the fuck more than barely remembers people they dated in high school, let alone obsesses over them for over sixteen goddamned years? Holy shit, this woman is Coutney Love level crazy.
78
This just seems to me but a further point of what most middle american straight couples are mostly about, sure, she is an ass and very self-involved but even in that, to me, it all seems kind of standard fare for pretty much everyone.. of any gender and sexuality, just saying.
I'm all for calling her out on her whatever-the-fuck idiocy,
she is spewing ,
'cause it's about the children. or something.
sill though, she is kind of a stupid heartless skank.
I'm all for calling her out on her whatever-the-fuck idiocy,
she is spewing ,
'cause it's about the children. or something.
sill though, she is kind of a stupid heartless skank.
79
This sounds like a classic case of histrionic personality disorder:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_…
80
#70: You're thinking of "Dangerous Liaisons", which is a much better movie than "Fatal Attraction", despite them both having the awesome Glenn Close in them.
81
It's funnier if you go back and read it like "one twue wuv", like the Priest from The Princess Bride.
82
66
you nailed it, sister.
there is no harm in cheating on homosexuals.
cause, they don't have any nerves or feelings so they don't feel pain if you cheat on them and all homosexuals are just in 'relationships' for the buttsex so they'll understand if you cheat on them to get a fresher piece of ass.
you nailed it, sister.
there is no harm in cheating on homosexuals.
cause, they don't have any nerves or feelings so they don't feel pain if you cheat on them and all homosexuals are just in 'relationships' for the buttsex so they'll understand if you cheat on them to get a fresher piece of ass.
84
I was a little angry about this letter for a moment, then I realized that would be like getting angry at some junkie huddled in the corner with a needle still dangling from their arm.
You silly junkie, what the fuck have you done to your life?
You silly junkie, what the fuck have you done to your life?
85
Social networking sites have made it possible for stupid people to show the world just how incredibly stupid they can be. Seriously, her one twue wuv (thanks, Caralain, I love that movie) is the one that she didn't have the opportunity to cheat on when she was 15? Isn't that a little like the former high school quarterback who can't let go of his glory days?
I can't believe it took her 7 months to start fucking this guy, or that it took her husband 5 months to find out about it. Or that I've been sucked into this, good lord I need a hobby.
Dan, your response was not nearly as cunty as it could or should have been. You are absolutely correct, there is no justice in the fact that this bitch can get legally married multiple times and you can't. You really should have continued to ignore her, behavior like this should not be rewarded with attention.
I can't believe it took her 7 months to start fucking this guy, or that it took her husband 5 months to find out about it. Or that I've been sucked into this, good lord I need a hobby.
Dan, your response was not nearly as cunty as it could or should have been. You are absolutely correct, there is no justice in the fact that this bitch can get legally married multiple times and you can't. You really should have continued to ignore her, behavior like this should not be rewarded with attention.
89
Thought experiment: you're one of the guys this chick takes a liking to. She pursues and pursues and pursues. She "won't be IGNORED". So you fuck her, hoping that will get rid of her -- not right away, but inevitably one day!
91
@89...she falls pregnant. But she said she was on the pill!
Get your tubes tied, histrionic woman.
Get your tubes tied, histrionic woman.
93
oh. my. god. I think I know this person. and she's related to me. If its not her, its very similar and everyone in the family would love to know how to take her kids away from her, but its impossible and sad. Very sad.
94
I like how Dan can hold back on being "cuntish" because he knows the commenters will let her have it.
@90: Thanks, but she's not my type. I could definitely see fucking your wife, though, the poor thing.
@90: Thanks, but she's not my type. I could definitely see fucking your wife, though, the poor thing.
96
So why isn't anyone getting to the heart of the matter?
How long was it before she emailed Dan again?
How long was it before she emailed Dan again?
97
Wow. I hate my life at the moment. But yours sucks, and your a kunt. Fuck, i'll have another beer. Thanks you sorry sack of sdot.
98
I often wonder about the Men that get involved with this sort of woman. Don't they see her coming a mile away? Maybe, just maybe if the Men in her life told her to get some professional help (and Dan's too) things would be easier. I don't know.
99
I feel sorry for you Dan, for getting letters like this.
Then again, I have a feeling that you often screen this pathetic horror stories from us, and there's actually a high percentage of letters that are like this -insultingly not worth your attention. Stick with the ones with matter. I feel sorry for this woman's kids, but there's nothing we can do.
Then again, I have a feeling that you often screen this pathetic horror stories from us, and there's actually a high percentage of letters that are like this -insultingly not worth your attention. Stick with the ones with matter. I feel sorry for this woman's kids, but there's nothing we can do.
100
@98, Yes, they know she brings drama, but she has nice tits. And at 32, she looks damn good in tight jeans. (When she's not pregnant, that is...) I'm thinking husband #2 is just delaying the inevitable -- it takes some time to stash one's assets in an off-shore bank.
@9, what does "WT;SN" mean? Urban dictionary says "WT;SN isn't defined yet."
@9, what does "WT;SN" mean? Urban dictionary says "WT;SN isn't defined yet."
101
Dan, I think you're wrong. If she leaves husband number 2 for First Love Boy, First Love Boy will probably dump HER butt first :D
102
@98 The men who get attracted to her are co-dependent, probably a little personality-challenged, hence their unconquerable lure to a sociopath who knows how to weave a rather tawdry personal drama in such excitable, theatrical ways, making up for their terrified deference and emotional disability. Excepting her bwue-cowwar-one-twue-wuv, who if he does manage to snare her into his urban Old Spice sweathouse, will undoubtedly cheat on her again, if only to get away from the Sue Ellen Ewing histrionics and weekend child visitations.
103
@81 -- dammit, you made me spit out my drink. no cupcakes for you.
I think the consensus is Bitch Be Crazy on this one.
I think the consensus is Bitch Be Crazy on this one.
104
@100
"Women's Television Sports Network
Western Transsexual Support Network
Seaman, Weapons Technician Striker (Naval Rating)"
Google answers...somehow, none of these seem very "Kim-ian"... :)
"Women's Television Sports Network
Western Transsexual Support Network
Seaman, Weapons Technician Striker (Naval Rating)"
Google answers...somehow, none of these seem very "Kim-ian"... :)
105
Why is it that the people who seem like the biggest messes, the ones you would most like to see barricade themselves away from everyone else for good, are ALWAYS the ones having the most offspring? It's intentional pollution of the gene pool.
107
Sometimes I wish there were a reality show where the entire premise is that Dan sometimes shows up at these peoples' homes to deliver his response in person...
108
19, 28, and 52 beat me to it, but I must echo their advice:
GET YOUR TUBES TIED!!! TUBAL LIGATION!!! MAKE THE APPOINTMENT IMMEDIATELY!!!
Other than omitting that crucial point, Dan's response was spot-on.
GET YOUR TUBES TIED!!! TUBAL LIGATION!!! MAKE THE APPOINTMENT IMMEDIATELY!!!
Other than omitting that crucial point, Dan's response was spot-on.
109
Like several other commenters, I'm hoping and praying to sweet baby jeebus that she's having protected sex with "Mr. True Love", but somehow doubt it. I'll be sure to watch for her on Springer or Maury. It's sure to happen.
111
It takes a lot for me to laugh out loud on the internet.
@38
@107
Hats off to you. She is everything I wish I could be the opposite of.
@38
@107
Hats off to you. She is everything I wish I could be the opposite of.
113
What @31 said. If your current husband is a decent person, please divorce him and leave him with custody of your children. You are in no position to provide a stable home to your kids. Stick around the city, visit them often, whatever, but let someone give them the stable loving home they deserve, instead of the dick merry-go-round they are destined to have if they're attached to your selfish ass until they run away from whatever "home" is at the age of 16.
Once you've safely divorced your husband, further traumatized your first child and newly traumatized your second, get your tubes tied at once. Then go fuck blue collar guy until he moves away and gets a restraining order against you.
Once you've safely divorced your husband, further traumatized your first child and newly traumatized your second, get your tubes tied at once. Then go fuck blue collar guy until he moves away and gets a restraining order against you.
114
"Because you're a cheater, SCIL, you're the kind of person who couldn't and shouldn't make monogamous commitments. Or get married. Or have children."
... Hang on. You're always going on how monogamy isn't natural for humans, yet now you're saying cheaters shouldn't have children? How does that work?
... Hang on. You're always going on how monogamy isn't natural for humans, yet now you're saying cheaters shouldn't have children? How does that work?
115
There's really nothing left to say about this deluded person. But if you are reading this and you're a parent, please remember to teach your children that there is no such thing as "one true love". PLEASE.
116
"This person was a jerk who left me for one of my friends back in high school. But he was and still the love of my life. Always has been. Always will be. He is not married and never has been married and has no children."
Ahaahhahah you're both so fucked up.
I can't wait for you to dump your husband and for your TWOO WUVV to start fucking other girls behind your back.
Ahaahhahah you're both so fucked up.
I can't wait for you to dump your husband and for your TWOO WUVV to start fucking other girls behind your back.
117
@114: Dan has always distinguished between cheating and polygamy. They're two different things. Pay attention.
118
@40: "If our dumbass government won't allow gays to marry why don't they initiate a lifelong ban on marriage for assholes like this woman and for anyone stupid enough to get her pregnant. "
The politicians who vote for DOMA are male versions of this bitch.
The politicians who vote for DOMA are male versions of this bitch.
119
@109: "Like several other commenters, I'm hoping and praying to sweet baby jeebus that she's having protected sex with "Mr. True Love", but somehow doubt it. I'll be sure to watch for her on Springer or Maury. It's sure to happen. "
How else is she going to get this fucking sap to marry her? It worked twice before.
How else is she going to get this fucking sap to marry her? It worked twice before.
120
SEW HER VAGINA SHUT FOR GOOD, MAKE HER USE HER BACKDOOR FOR SPERM INJECTIONS. AND DAD'S NEED TO CLAIM THEIR KIDS FROM THIS WACKO BITCH.
121
@114: "... Hang on. You're always going on how monogamy isn't natural for humans, yet now you're saying cheaters shouldn't have children? How does that work? "
You're advocating polygamy in which one partner's participation is non-consensual, douchebag.
You're advocating polygamy in which one partner's participation is non-consensual, douchebag.
123
STILL laughing!!! And I am a humorless feminist who hates to see "bitch" used as an insult. But that was so perfect.
125
I don't know if I've ever read anything quite so soaked in narcissism. By the time this woman grows old and dies, her life's path will be cluttered with the flotsam and jetsam of shattered relationships and lives. How utterly depressing (for the people in her life, not for her - she won't notice, probably).
126
I know someone who broke up with her long-term boyfriend to go back to her highschool flame. Turns out, the reasons she liked him in highschool were not enough to satisfy an adult relationship, and she realized he was a total tool. Luckily, it only lasted a few months and she got this out of her system when there were no legal ties. Now she's realized that the original guy was spot-on and they're having a kid in May.
Moral of the story? an idealized image of a highschool lover will always disappoint. Sorry, SCIL, you need to grow up.
Moral of the story? an idealized image of a highschool lover will always disappoint. Sorry, SCIL, you need to grow up.
127
@ 53. She's a textbook narcissist - therefore she believes she's special. HER situation is different from all the other situations and NO ONE can understand her pain because she's so special and unique and not like other people and how could Dan not be moved by her plight and respond kindly to her obvious distress?
In sum, what about that letter didn't scream complete disconnection with reality to you?
:)
In sum, what about that letter didn't scream complete disconnection with reality to you?
:)
128
On the one hand, especially after the first paragraph, I pretty much assumed this is some idiot (probably male, probably still in Mom's basement) who is trying to get Dan to publish him by inventing some POS story ("Dear Penthouse…..")
On the other hand, Jerry Springer keeps getting guests, and people in this thread say they know people like this.
Sigh.
Either way, good answer, Dan. And I totally agree with his first knee-jerk reaction. She can get married (early and often, apparently), and we can't.
Because, seriously, if the Supreme Court declares that the government has the right to base civil rights on "responsible procreation" why is this woman (real or fictional) not a candidate for forced sterilization?
On the other hand, Jerry Springer keeps getting guests, and people in this thread say they know people like this.
Sigh.
Either way, good answer, Dan. And I totally agree with his first knee-jerk reaction. She can get married (early and often, apparently), and we can't.
Because, seriously, if the Supreme Court declares that the government has the right to base civil rights on "responsible procreation" why is this woman (real or fictional) not a candidate for forced sterilization?
129
Dan is the man on this one. And amazingly--family values troll agrees! Now I wonder why that could be?
131
you're "true love" left you for your friend in High School? My first serious boyfriend did that and i just want to punch him in the head. i can't believe you're surprised that dan didn't waste his time wiht your bullshit until now. I feel bad for your kids
132
To those who complain that letters like this get published: But look how much fun everyone is having!
134
@ 59 Look who's into name-calling now!
But that's only one of your million double-standards, so I never expected anything more.
But that's only one of your million double-standards, so I never expected anything more.
135
@106 Sorry, Matt, went to bed early, and so didn't answer in a timely fashion...you were mean right outta the blue, honey, and that's just not nice (unless we're talking about Seattleblues, and then all bets are off...) and yes, I find seandr's (slightly raunchy) humour amusing...I was actually about to type something to that effect, when I happened to refresh the thread, and saw his zinger, the only possible response being, "oh snap," or possibly, "oh no you didn't!" Someday, you boys will have to kiss and make up...take pictures, and post them on Slog..mmm.
136
Dan, I wish I still had my pom poms from 9th grade. Because I'd love to give you a cheer right now.
138
Another POS looking for permission to act like a POS - same as yesterday. I feel bad for her kids - although her current husband should have known it was coming because she was in the same position with HIM before she married him, so no sympathy for him.
139
@ EricaP (100) and Canuck (104),
It is a Kim-ism for "You're driving me to drink" in my house. Uttering it, means I'm pouring myself a dram and sitting down with guitar and everyone should just leave me in peace. Leaving me in peace isn't an option, either.
Wild Turkey (101 proof); snort neat
But it doesn't have to be Wild Turkey.
It is a Kim-ism for "You're driving me to drink" in my house. Uttering it, means I'm pouring myself a dram and sitting down with guitar and everyone should just leave me in peace. Leaving me in peace isn't an option, either.
Wild Turkey (101 proof); snort neat
But it doesn't have to be Wild Turkey.
140
@66/68 Take the kids out of the equation, and it is the same. The kids are the only real tragedy here. The point isn't the kids. The point is barely the marriage, since it has only been 3 years. The point is that she is in a committed, LTR-for-her, 3+ year relationship that she wants to destroy to go back to an ex that she so TROOLY loves that treated her like shit. If you haven't seen a 22-24 year old gay do that to somebody whom they have dated (and lived with) for 3-4+ years, you're fucking blind. Or, you just think its more acceptable for gays to be UBER-drama than straights.
141
@66/68 p.s. I only made the straight/gay equivalence because Dan kind of did it with his (legit) marriage question in the first place.
144
Heh, Kim, now that makes sense. For me it would be red wine or Guinness, and no one would pay any attention to the "leave me alone" decree here, either...
145
"Because you're a cheater, SCIL, you're the kind of person who couldn't and shouldn't make monogamous commitments.
Or get married.
Or have children......"
Wait a cotton-picking minute, Hoss.....
Don't you dip your toes in other ponds, Danny?
Isn't that an essential part of keeping what you've got bearable?
Did you get 'married'?
Do you have kids?
Maybe the difference is that the insane bitch doesn't have her significant other by the short hairs, economically speaking, and they don't have to put up with her shit?
Is that the difference?
All cheaters are pieces of shit-
it's just that some have partners
who have to endure in silence....
Or get married.
Or have children......"
Wait a cotton-picking minute, Hoss.....
Don't you dip your toes in other ponds, Danny?
Isn't that an essential part of keeping what you've got bearable?
Did you get 'married'?
Do you have kids?
Maybe the difference is that the insane bitch doesn't have her significant other by the short hairs, economically speaking, and they don't have to put up with her shit?
Is that the difference?
All cheaters are pieces of shit-
it's just that some have partners
who have to endure in silence....
146
As one of those **ethical** non-monogs who was once a shitty shitty cheater, jesus christ, lady-kins: T-H-E-R-A-P-Y!!!
and yes, people change a lot after high school. except you! once a mess, always a mess. i hope you learn how to clean that shit up and don't fuck up your kids too much.
and yes, people change a lot after high school. except you! once a mess, always a mess. i hope you learn how to clean that shit up and don't fuck up your kids too much.
147
@139 - Thanks! adopting that for myself in 3, 2, 1... (who says I have to wait until Dennis posts to start drinking?)
148
What do all of these men see in this woman? What a piece of work! I feel sorry for the kids. If she doesn't get some counseling and start getting her shit together, here's hoping the kids will be able to go far away for college, and go to schools with good counseling centers! They're going to need to get out of there, and get some help, after making their escape from the walking soap opera that is their mother.
I'm glad Dan answered this letter (though it might encourage others to send him the same missive multiple times), and I hope LW is getting an education from reading all of the responses to it.
I'm glad Dan answered this letter (though it might encourage others to send him the same missive multiple times), and I hope LW is getting an education from reading all of the responses to it.
149
Reminds me of the book I ran across at Borders: "Why Men Marry Bitches."
No one here comes out unscathed, except maybe the first husband, who might have been too young and dumb to know what a complete asshole he married. The second husband fucked her knowing she was married, so he's no prize, either.
I think she should go live with her soul mate in his little apartment, and bring the kids with her. I want to know exactly how long the domestic bliss lasts.
No one here comes out unscathed, except maybe the first husband, who might have been too young and dumb to know what a complete asshole he married. The second husband fucked her knowing she was married, so he's no prize, either.
I think she should go live with her soul mate in his little apartment, and bring the kids with her. I want to know exactly how long the domestic bliss lasts.
150
Dan, I'm in awe of you ... I would have no idea how to answer such a letter. I think you nailed it, though. All the rest is commentary.
152
The chick is head over heels for a guy she describes as a "jerk". I think that's the most important clue for decoding this hot mess.
153
Can we please please PLEASE see the pathetic, furious, hilarious emails she sent after reading this response?! You know she couldn't possibly follow his "never email me again" restriction. That would require controlling herself, which she clearly has never done in her entire life. And the reason it took 7 months to fuck "Love of her life" is probably because she made him beg for it, while she "resisted" because she was SO torn... people like this love to make little dramatic narratives of their whole lives. I wanted to fuck him, so I did - soooo much less exciting.
154
I haven't got the energy or the will to read 153 comments that came before me, so forgive me if somebody already said this. But:
You're a selfish shit. Get some therapy.
You're a selfish shit. Get some therapy.
155
@ 135, it struck me as grade-school-cum-frat-boy, not raunchy, but whatev. (And I've been busy this morning, so sorry for not getting back to you sooner.) And if you like seandr, that's your biz. I think he's a buffoon myself.
BTW, I have noticed that you often insert yourself into discussions I have with others. Is there a reason for that?
BTW, I have noticed that you often insert yourself into discussions I have with others. Is there a reason for that?
156
I predict she and Blue-Collar Love of Her Life will be manufacturing meth in a double-wide within a year, and divorced in two. One of her kids will move as far away from her as possible, never speak to her again, and have a fairly normal life. The other one will write bitter, disturbing novels a la James Ellroy about how fucked up his life is because his mother was a headcase.
157
155 comments and only ONE recognized the Buckaroo Banzai reference?
Dan, super cool working that one in...
Dan, super cool working that one in...
159
It's people like this that give me faith that if I was to get pregnant in three or four years, I would be able to raise a child in a stable and loving environment. Sure, I'm young.. but I'm a hell of a lot more mature and grown up than this piece of shit.
If only there was as much paperwork into birthing a child as there is into adopting one.
If only there was as much paperwork into birthing a child as there is into adopting one.
161
Good god. What a fucking mess of a headcase. I'm still pretty young (a month away from 28) and it absolutely blows my mind how people my age and even older(!) are still children, and yet have children. And can vote! And can buy guns!
It's a sick and awful world, isn't it?
I feel sorry for the men that surround her, but at the same time, you have GOT to see this shit coming. Some guys like hot messes. I learned at 22 to run like hell from them.
And any man who marries a woman who's cheating on her current husband with him deserves exactly what he gets.
It's a sick and awful world, isn't it?
I feel sorry for the men that surround her, but at the same time, you have GOT to see this shit coming. Some guys like hot messes. I learned at 22 to run like hell from them.
And any man who marries a woman who's cheating on her current husband with him deserves exactly what he gets.
163
See if your husband would be interested in your sleeping with the tail on the side to spice up your relationship. You get to "cheat" as you seem to be programed to do while allowing your children the security of a good life. You left your first husband for this man, you obviously have/had feelings for him. See if you can't rekindle them. And for the love of all that is holy get your tubes tied, get tested often, and use a condom. Not or, AND. Take all precautions for the sake of your family.
164
So why hasn't she?
EEEEE the drama EEEEE the excitement EEEEE it's so exciting how everyone wants me EEEEE how dare anyone ignore me!
Yeah, it's the kids I feel sorry for. Whichever parent they end up with - the serial cheater and drama addict or the one who lets same walk all over him.
Every man who that has come into my life AFTER him knew about him and knew that if he ever came back for me, I was gone.
So why hasn't she?
EEEEE the drama EEEEE the excitement EEEEE it's so exciting how everyone wants me EEEEE how dare anyone ignore me!
Yeah, it's the kids I feel sorry for. Whichever parent they end up with - the serial cheater and drama addict or the one who lets same walk all over him.
165
@155 Hmm, unrequited crush? Irretrievable busybody? Hadn't realized I did that, but then I insert myself into *many* people's discussions, so maybe "narcissist" would be the simplest explanation...rest assured, I will be on guard in the future, and will let you just carry on unmolested. (Unless you pick on gus, in which case you'll be gettin' the verbal smackdown...)
166
Nah, I like Gus. There are a fair number of shitty slogger, but Gus isn't one of them.
But you oughta let him fight his own battles if someone does pick on him - I can tell you it's slightly embarrassing when our moms/GFs/wives do that for us menfolk, and I'd guess our regular old gal pals doing it has a similar effect. Or maybe not. Anyway, Gus is well equipped to spar.
But you oughta let him fight his own battles if someone does pick on him - I can tell you it's slightly embarrassing when our moms/GFs/wives do that for us menfolk, and I'd guess our regular old gal pals doing it has a similar effect. Or maybe not. Anyway, Gus is well equipped to spar.
167
Good god, I'd say that someone like this is a fantastically good case for non-monogamy on the grounds that then she'd be able to cheat honestly (because clearly she can't stay monogamous to anyone), but I seriously doubt that's what she wants anyway.
That aside, why would you want to be with someone so badly who you readily admit (more like tell everyone who will sit still for 5 minutes) is an asshole?
That aside, why would you want to be with someone so badly who you readily admit (more like tell everyone who will sit still for 5 minutes) is an asshole?
169
@166: Your fixation with me is just weird. Also weird - you telling Canuck which conversations she is allowed to get involved in.
@168: That pink superhero costume is hot, please don't put it away!
@168: That pink superhero costume is hot, please don't put it away!
170
Hey Dan,
Move (come?) to our lovely Commonwealth and get married!
As a 20+ year married breeder, I can unequivocally state that the gay couple across the road has no bearing upon my marriage what-so-ever (at least any more than my other neighbors). However much the FUDites want to destroy my belief that my relationship with my wife is my own responsibility, our relationship is still working possibly better than ever.
To the LW,
Have you ever felt comfortable in your own skin? Has there ever been a time when you really liked yourself? Our experiences are different, but I HATED myself in high school (compared to my mid-20s). I clearly remember the intensity of the passion and drama, but I'd never want to go back to that amount of misery. Figure out what makes you stable and happy to wake up in the morning, and that is a firm place to base where to go from here. Then commit yourself to the responsibility of giving that life to your children.
Married in MA.
Move (come?) to our lovely Commonwealth and get married!
As a 20+ year married breeder, I can unequivocally state that the gay couple across the road has no bearing upon my marriage what-so-ever (at least any more than my other neighbors). However much the FUDites want to destroy my belief that my relationship with my wife is my own responsibility, our relationship is still working possibly better than ever.
To the LW,
Have you ever felt comfortable in your own skin? Has there ever been a time when you really liked yourself? Our experiences are different, but I HATED myself in high school (compared to my mid-20s). I clearly remember the intensity of the passion and drama, but I'd never want to go back to that amount of misery. Figure out what makes you stable and happy to wake up in the morning, and that is a firm place to base where to go from here. Then commit yourself to the responsibility of giving that life to your children.
Married in MA.
171
Hey Dan,
Move (come?) to our lovely Commonwealth and get married!
As a 20+ year married breeder, I can unequivocally state that the gay couple across the road has no bearing upon my marriage what-so-ever (at least any more than my other neighbors). However much the FUDites want to destroy my belief that my relationship with my wife is my own responsibility, our relationship is still working possibly better than ever.
To the LW,
Have you ever felt comfortable in your own skin? Has there ever been a time when you really liked yourself? Our experiences are different, but I HATED myself in high school (compared to my mid-20s). I clearly remember the intensity of the passion and drama, but I'd never want to go back to that amount of misery. Figure out what makes you stable and happy to wake up in the morning, and that is a firm place to base where to go from here. Then commit yourself to the responsibility of giving that life to your children.
Married in MA.
Move (come?) to our lovely Commonwealth and get married!
As a 20+ year married breeder, I can unequivocally state that the gay couple across the road has no bearing upon my marriage what-so-ever (at least any more than my other neighbors). However much the FUDites want to destroy my belief that my relationship with my wife is my own responsibility, our relationship is still working possibly better than ever.
To the LW,
Have you ever felt comfortable in your own skin? Has there ever been a time when you really liked yourself? Our experiences are different, but I HATED myself in high school (compared to my mid-20s). I clearly remember the intensity of the passion and drama, but I'd never want to go back to that amount of misery. Figure out what makes you stable and happy to wake up in the morning, and that is a firm place to base where to go from here. Then commit yourself to the responsibility of giving that life to your children.
Married in MA.
173
What in hell fire? What is it with people's ridiculous obsession with "love of my life" bullshit? Marriage and love-of-your-life have nothing to do with each other. "Love of your life" is the fantasy version of your CHILDHOOD sweetheart, eroticized to just the right pitch (perfectly sexual, but romantic and unreachable), then textured with the disappointment of how routine and dull long-term-committment really is. You let those fantasies stew for a good twenty years, then pop it out of the oven for some delicious pie-in-the-sky, walk down nostalgia road. Masterbate to it, but don't try to keep it forever, because, afterall, it's just a fantasy. Fuck it. Divorce. Go for it. It couldn't turn out any worse than what you've already made for your kids....could it?
174
Wow, Can I meet her 2nd hubbie? I would LOVE to find somebody who would provide a great house and money in the bank, and still, you know, screw around.
I wonder if he can put up with someone like that, if he could deal with someone who isn't, you know, female.
I wonder if he can put up with someone like that, if he could deal with someone who isn't, you know, female.
175
I hate these expositions that have this theme of "But I'm in LOVE!" as if that's supposed to justify everything you do, and that "love" makes everything ok, it conquers all, blah blah blah. It doesn't help that American culture pushes this ALL THE TIME. So SCIL, I don't really blame you, but at the same time you have to take responsibility!!! This so-called "love" is an addiction, a delusion. What are you trying to escape from? I have to wonder, what happened to you growing up? No, seriously. Think about this. What kinds of pain, wounds, etc. did you experience that helped you to develop an attraction for a jerk, and to think this was "love," and to continue to think that this is the way to solve all your problems? You need help. Go get some.
176
Clearly she should leave her life and go live with the love of her life. She should just make sure to give custody of her kids to her second husband first. Then she can go live the shitty life she so clearly wants and deserves and everyone else she has damaged can go on with their lives without her toxic presence. Hopefully husband number two will find benevolent step mother number one and everyone else will live happily ever after.
177
@ 155 - Just inserting myself into a discussion you have with someone else, here: it's ok when Canuck does it because what she says is intelligent.
@ 157 - I saw Buckaroo Banzai when it came out, in the 80's, and I saw it just as one should, i.e. stoned out of my skull. Obviously, I don't remember anything about it except that it was cool. Now, this has been bugging me since yesterday: what's the goddamn BB reference?
@ 157 - I saw Buckaroo Banzai when it came out, in the 80's, and I saw it just as one should, i.e. stoned out of my skull. Obviously, I don't remember anything about it except that it was cool. Now, this has been bugging me since yesterday: what's the goddamn BB reference?
179
@ 169, what fixation? I made one comment about you. The rest was about Canuck, not you. Egomaniac.
180
@177 Ricardo, I LOVED Buckaroo Bonzai! I believe the quote is "Because, you see, wherever you go, there you are." I remember seeing it a bunch of times in college. Years later, I recommended it to some friends, saying, "Oh, it's amazing, you HAVE to watch it!"
......so they watch it, and call me the next day, and say, "Is there a chance, that when you saw this "amazing" movie, you were completely stoned?" "Oh," I said..."do you think that had something to do with it??"
......so they watch it, and call me the next day, and say, "Is there a chance, that when you saw this "amazing" movie, you were completely stoned?" "Oh," I said..."do you think that had something to do with it??"
182
DAN SAVAGE!!!!
If I couldn't have "loved" you anymore before, I do more so now! :] Terry, give that man of yours an extra big ol' hug!
"THIS BITCH CAN GET LEGALLY MARRIED AND I CAN'T?!?!"
I smacked my hands on the desk so hard when I read that, I'm still in pain. I had to get up out of my chair and go outside and walk it off! I have never read a one-liner that hit me so hard, and summed it all up so well! Whew! It sort of puts the RIDICULOUSNESS of the whole anti-gay-marraige issue in perspective.
On a side note, I'm hard-pressed to find your GLAAD nomination in there recent nominees listing... Surely an oversight... between your Paper, blogs, podcasts, activism and the recent "It Gets Better Project" I'm hard pressed to believe that GLAAD snoozed on much deserved recognition...
Thanks to you and your crew for all of your entertainment, efforts, tireless devotion, etc. Take care and all the best!
- Tyler Straus, VA, USA
If I couldn't have "loved" you anymore before, I do more so now! :] Terry, give that man of yours an extra big ol' hug!
"THIS BITCH CAN GET LEGALLY MARRIED AND I CAN'T?!?!"
I smacked my hands on the desk so hard when I read that, I'm still in pain. I had to get up out of my chair and go outside and walk it off! I have never read a one-liner that hit me so hard, and summed it all up so well! Whew! It sort of puts the RIDICULOUSNESS of the whole anti-gay-marraige issue in perspective.
On a side note, I'm hard-pressed to find your GLAAD nomination in there recent nominees listing... Surely an oversight... between your Paper, blogs, podcasts, activism and the recent "It Gets Better Project" I'm hard pressed to believe that GLAAD snoozed on much deserved recognition...
Thanks to you and your crew for all of your entertainment, efforts, tireless devotion, etc. Take care and all the best!
- Tyler Straus, VA, USA
183
@167: "Good god, I'd say that someone like this is a fantastically good case for non-monogamy on the grounds that then she'd be able to cheat honestly"
She would never let hubby #2 fuck other women or want him to stop supporting her.
She would never let hubby #2 fuck other women or want him to stop supporting her.
184
Dan, I ♥ you more than words can say. I pray to my great and plentiful deities that this is a very determined troll.
185
I almost rank with the White Queen's Six Impossible Things Before Breakfast her claim that husband #2 loves her and doesn't want to lose her.
But I think SCIL's whole series of emails ought to be forwarded to a crime drama. She comes across as someone who would inspire a plot line with a splendid murderess.
But I think SCIL's whole series of emails ought to be forwarded to a crime drama. She comes across as someone who would inspire a plot line with a splendid murderess.
188
@ 180 - Thanks, looked it up and you are indeed right. I can now sleep better.
The fact that BB is fun on drugs doesn't mean it's a bad movie, it just means you have to come prepared when you see it.
A lot of movies I found fascinating while on drugs, I know I couldn't stand for 5 minutes if I hadn't smoked. That doesn't mean they're bad, just that I need weed to get in the right mood for those movies.
The fact that BB is fun on drugs doesn't mean it's a bad movie, it just means you have to come prepared when you see it.
A lot of movies I found fascinating while on drugs, I know I couldn't stand for 5 minutes if I hadn't smoked. That doesn't mean they're bad, just that I need weed to get in the right mood for those movies.
189
Ricardo, I hear ya...BB was on TV the other night, and I tried, I really tried, but I couldn't sit through it. Red wine doesn't have quite the same function as pot, apparently. I did think Peter Weller had rather lovely lips, though.
190
My dad is a recovered coke addict who counsels other recovering addicts in overcoming their addictions. He talks a lot about how sick addiction makes you, how messed up it makes your priorities, how little self-awareness addicts have, but I'm coming more and more to the realization that the difference between the average person and the average substance abuser is that the substance abuser just does more drugs.
191
To those folks wondering how many letters Dan gets... Well, obviously, I have no idea either, but just wanted to point out that I recall his doing a "Behind the scenes at Savage Love" (or something like that -- something about the process) column many years ago. He should consider doing another, as I recall it being long before the Letter of the Day feature, possibly before the series of tubes even existed, and so I can't imagine it's not being worth revisiting. Was a great column also, as evidenced by the fact that I recall it so well & fondly.
As for the letter writer... I always feel a little bad for the people who write in to him and get torn apart here in the comments. Yeah, she's got some narcissistic tendencies, but then I don't think that's really all that uncommon. And yeah -- she should really get herself some therapy. I can't be the only one who thought Dan's response was gonna consist entirely of the bold-texted portion. Would've been fine, in my humblest of humble.
As for the letter writer... I always feel a little bad for the people who write in to him and get torn apart here in the comments. Yeah, she's got some narcissistic tendencies, but then I don't think that's really all that uncommon. And yeah -- she should really get herself some therapy. I can't be the only one who thought Dan's response was gonna consist entirely of the bold-texted portion. Would've been fine, in my humblest of humble.
193
OMG,, ur 1truluv? SO AWSUM!!
(That hurt. Sorry.Had to bring myself down to your level though.)
Hey, she mentioned he treated her like a POS, leaving her for her friend, so if I recall my highschool days that means they were together for... a week? A week and two classes on Monday morning before lunch?
Bitch, please. Get out of my gender, you're making us look bad. Also, what you're feeling isn't love because if it was, you'd still be with your first husband. Or apologizing profusely to your second. But it wouldn't have you out working on your third.
(That hurt. Sorry.Had to bring myself down to your level though.)
Hey, she mentioned he treated her like a POS, leaving her for her friend, so if I recall my highschool days that means they were together for... a week? A week and two classes on Monday morning before lunch?
Bitch, please. Get out of my gender, you're making us look bad. Also, what you're feeling isn't love because if it was, you'd still be with your first husband. Or apologizing profusely to your second. But it wouldn't have you out working on your third.
194
Oh, god, psychotherapy. Also, I strongly disagree with Dan: get the fuck out of your kids' lives before you screw them up as severely as you.
195
Did anyone else notice the whole class issue in her letter? White collar vs. blue collar? In addition to being a thoroughly messed up CPOS who is directly aiming the bullets of her infidelity at the hearts of her children, she isn't "gone" (and off with the first love) because she's aware of the huge class distinction between her second husband and her "love." And she can't let go of the luxury of being middle or upper class. The more I think about this, the angrier I get. Honey, if you're reading this:
1. You are living a life of privilege -- you have a loving spouse with a JOB and a HOUSE and two children.
2. Your spouse has stepped up his warmth and attention.
3. You are only 32 so you have many decades of your life -- and possibly your good health -- ahead of you.
4. You also have the luxury of abandoning your children and your loving husband so that you can choose someone who may not have progressed much since high school but who happens to have a dick. Or you could acknowledge the elephant in the room (which is the fact that you feel you deserve the luxury of BOTH husband #2 AND the man with a dick).
5. You are correct that this situation is untenable. None of us may help you because we're all so angry about your behavior, but a counselor just might do the job.
1. You are living a life of privilege -- you have a loving spouse with a JOB and a HOUSE and two children.
2. Your spouse has stepped up his warmth and attention.
3. You are only 32 so you have many decades of your life -- and possibly your good health -- ahead of you.
4. You also have the luxury of abandoning your children and your loving husband so that you can choose someone who may not have progressed much since high school but who happens to have a dick. Or you could acknowledge the elephant in the room (which is the fact that you feel you deserve the luxury of BOTH husband #2 AND the man with a dick).
5. You are correct that this situation is untenable. None of us may help you because we're all so angry about your behavior, but a counselor just might do the job.
196
Just want to say, this is my mum, shes the scum of the earth too, they exist people and for every one person reading this website there are literally millions of idiots like this.
Too often we write something and hope and pray something/someone is troll because we don't want to believe people are really this awful.
BELIEVE IT!
Good news is, she is obese, smokes a pack a day and is a severe alcoholic, although i have two younger brother, im glad she is going to die so that he can live with their dad before she fucks them up any more/ cheats/gets pregnant AGAIN!.
Too often we write something and hope and pray something/someone is troll because we don't want to believe people are really this awful.
BELIEVE IT!
Good news is, she is obese, smokes a pack a day and is a severe alcoholic, although i have two younger brother, im glad she is going to die so that he can live with their dad before she fucks them up any more/ cheats/gets pregnant AGAIN!.
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