Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, January 18, 2011
Homo Lance Lundsten: Not a Suicide?
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 5:55 PM
This isn't good news—a teenager is still dead—but there are now conflicting reports about the death of Lance Lundsten, the gay Minnesota high school student who died on Saturday and was reported to be a bullying-related suicide last night. It might not have been a suicide:
According to preliminary autopsy results that were shared with the family, he died from cardiac edema, a condition caused by an enlarged heart. There was no evidence that drugs or alcohol played any role in the death, according to a family member interviewed by the newspaper. The family was told that it would be six to eight weeks before complete toxicology results are determined.
More:
Lundsten's father reportedly called KSAX and said that the coroner ruled that Lance died not of suicide, but coronary edema. He said his son had an enlarged heart, and that neither drugs nor alcohol was found in the teen's system.
Lundsten's death is a tragedy however he died—and no one has disputed the fact that Lundsten was gay, out, and bullied at his high school, a school with anti-bullying programs and policies that do not cover or address anti-gay bullying. That Lundsten's friends—who were quoted in the first reports about his death—immediately concluded his death was a suicide and the bullying he endured at his rural high school was a contributing or determinative factor, is evidence that Jefferson High School has a bullying problem regardless.
More details as they emerge.
2
" no one has disputed the fact that Lundsten was gay, out, and bullied at his high school"
Who has said he was bullied?
One name, please.
Who has said he was bullied?
One name, please.
3
@1: "Lundsten’s friends say he was gay and that he was bullied at Jefferson High School in Alexandria, Minn."
Not quoted, technically, but they were referenced. Get your bitch-ass self out of my internets until you have something intelligent to say, you no-talent assclown.
Not quoted, technically, but they were referenced. Get your bitch-ass self out of my internets until you have something intelligent to say, you no-talent assclown.
4
"That Lundsten's friends—who were quoted in the first reports about his death—immediately concluded that his death was a suicide, and that the bullying he endured at his rural high school was a contributing or determinative factor, is evidence that Jefferson High School has a bullying problem regardless."
again, no one was "quoted"...
this could also be evidence that teens are credulous gossips.
what is your excuse Dan?
again, no one was "quoted"...
this could also be evidence that teens are credulous gossips.
what is your excuse Dan?
6
"More details as they emerge"
These "details" had emerged at the time the original credulous post was vomited onto Slog....
These "details" had emerged at the time the original credulous post was vomited onto Slog....
8
We hate BullShit parading as Journalism.
We hate illiterate credulous spiteful gossip mongerers parading as Journalists.
We hate illiterate credulous spiteful gossip mongerers parading as Journalists.
9
In the title of the original credulous post Dan stated: "Gay Teenager Bullied At School Commits Suicide"
There was nothing in the material Dan posted at that time to support that assertion, which in fact was false.
Dan was up to his eyeballs in his own credulous bullshit before he hit the send burtton on the original post...
There was nothing in the material Dan posted at that time to support that assertion, which in fact was false.
Dan was up to his eyeballs in his own credulous bullshit before he hit the send burtton on the original post...
10
"We hate BullShit parading as Journalism.
We hate illiterate credulous spiteful gossip mongerers parading as Journalists."
@8 Then stay away from Fox News, because that's what you're describing. This is a blog, and Dan does a pretty good job of linking actual journalists when he does this.
Frankly, there are far more insidious and influential examples of what you describe on Fox News... go troll there.
Thanks for reporting the updated info, Dan. Despite this unregistered troll, posting this update suggesting that this wasn't a suicide contrary to previous blog entries WAS ACTUALLY responsible journalism, despite the fact that you are not a journalist. If only Fox News could learn this lesson.
We hate illiterate credulous spiteful gossip mongerers parading as Journalists."
@8 Then stay away from Fox News, because that's what you're describing. This is a blog, and Dan does a pretty good job of linking actual journalists when he does this.
Frankly, there are far more insidious and influential examples of what you describe on Fox News... go troll there.
Thanks for reporting the updated info, Dan. Despite this unregistered troll, posting this update suggesting that this wasn't a suicide contrary to previous blog entries WAS ACTUALLY responsible journalism, despite the fact that you are not a journalist. If only Fox News could learn this lesson.
12
How many actual Gay Bullying Suicides occured in the whole country in the past month?
In the past year?
Half of the spate of 3 or 4 suicides Dan cited when he launched his Claim to Fame were in fact not Gay Bullying Suicides.
fabricated Gay Bully Suicides are to Dan what
Officially Designated Hate Groups are to the SPLC-
BullShit Lies to create and exploit for fame and fortune.....
In the past year?
Half of the spate of 3 or 4 suicides Dan cited when he launched his Claim to Fame were in fact not Gay Bullying Suicides.
fabricated Gay Bully Suicides are to Dan what
Officially Designated Hate Groups are to the SPLC-
BullShit Lies to create and exploit for fame and fortune.....
13
I don't know why you're all hating on Dan. He's a blogger and sex advice columnist, not a journalist. And he does a pretty good job blogging by linking to primary sources and offering pithy commentary on a subset of news that is of particular interest to most of us. If you want some investigative journalism, I'd start by asking what those marks on his left arm in the picture are and then see if a suspected suicide story makes sense.
14
10
Nate, have you visited Slog's gift shop where you can purchase Dan's Ass flavored lip gloss for those awkward moments when you can't kiss Dan's actual ass?....
Nate, have you visited Slog's gift shop where you can purchase Dan's Ass flavored lip gloss for those awkward moments when you can't kiss Dan's actual ass?....
15
10
oh goodie.
now is Responsible Dan going to retract all the posts blaming Palin for Arizonia's Atheist Anti-Religion PotHead Killer?
oh goodie.
now is Responsible Dan going to retract all the posts blaming Palin for Arizonia's Atheist Anti-Religion PotHead Killer?
16
Oh, that's rich. Unregistered troll, you are a beautiful example of the downside of everyone getting a voice on the Internet... all while you rabidly attack someone else's voice on the Internet.
Thanks for that extra little exposure of your true colors. ^_^/
Thanks for that extra little exposure of your true colors. ^_^/
17
Long before Dan became famous, there were a lot of bitter and jealous people in the "gay community" who resented him for calling out the sacred cows in what was a very provincial, self-satisfied environment. You'd think they would have moved on by now, but some birds only have one song in them.
But this thread should be about the death of the young man. Bullying or not, suicide or not, gay or not, it's a sad story.
But this thread should be about the death of the young man. Bullying or not, suicide or not, gay or not, it's a sad story.
19
Dang!
I wanna know what the troll said. if nothing else it would give a moment of amusement on a very boring evening.
I wanna know what the troll said. if nothing else it would give a moment of amusement on a very boring evening.
20
@15 Don't you think it's a little early to be naming a Credulous DumbAss Hack of the Century, I mean were only 10 years in. Wouldn't Credulous DumbAss Hack of the Decade be more appropriate.
21
20
ah- our pedestrian friend.
it pains us to have to explain
but the clever inference is that Dan is SOOOO credulous that we may award the title now assured that no one in the next 990 years could possibly surpass Dan's Credulous DumbAssed Hackery.
see how that works?
ah- our pedestrian friend.
it pains us to have to explain
but the clever inference is that Dan is SOOOO credulous that we may award the title now assured that no one in the next 990 years could possibly surpass Dan's Credulous DumbAssed Hackery.
see how that works?
22
@17 Yeah, I've always respected Dan Savage for telling us homos that gay male sluttiness spreads AIDS. Can you imagine Sarah Palin telling the Tea Party that abstinence only sex-ed causes teen pregnancy?
23
I feel bullied by unregistered users. Familiarity may breed contempt, but anonymity breeds idiots. Hell, I'd rather read shit from Loveschild than this tripe. Cowardly assholes.
26
23
you feel "bullied" by unregistered comments?
and you call someone else "cowardly"
we bet your own farts scare you shitless....
you feel "bullied" by unregistered comments?
and you call someone else "cowardly"
we bet your own farts scare you shitless....
27
Looks like our Troll doesn't know how long a century is. Seems he's an uneducated fucktard. Who would have guessed?!?!
28
25
damn ken you're a first rate wit-
skewering us over a mistype!
but we'll play it your way-
DanSavage- Credulous DumbAss Hack of the Millennium
better?
damn ken you're a first rate wit-
skewering us over a mistype!
but we'll play it your way-
DanSavage- Credulous DumbAss Hack of the Millennium
better?
30
I didn't waste my time reading the unregistered user, because I can fill in the blanks all by myself. Let's see.... Because in one instance, an out gay teen wasn't a suicide, that automatically means that the dilemma of teen LGBT suicide is all a myth of Dan's making.
Amiright?
See, unregistered user, there's no reason for you to contribute anything: We've heard it all before & can write your screed's 10x better than you'll ever be able to.
Amiright?
See, unregistered user, there's no reason for you to contribute anything: We've heard it all before & can write your screed's 10x better than you'll ever be able to.
31
30
darn, you're good!
so, oh wise one,
How many actual Gay Bullying Suicides occured in the whole country in the past month?
In the past year?
Half of the spate of 3 or 4 suicides Dan cited when he launched his Claim to Fame were in fact not Gay Bullying Suicides.
How many?
Exploiting fabricated Gay Bully Suicides are Dan's ticket to fame and fortune.....
.
HOW MANY?
darn, you're good!
so, oh wise one,
How many actual Gay Bullying Suicides occured in the whole country in the past month?
In the past year?
Half of the spate of 3 or 4 suicides Dan cited when he launched his Claim to Fame were in fact not Gay Bullying Suicides.
How many?
Exploiting fabricated Gay Bully Suicides are Dan's ticket to fame and fortune.....
.
HOW MANY?
32
@31: Relatively few gay kids an hero, true.
But for every teen suicide, how many kids (gay or straight) do you think go through hell every day of their adolescent lives, but are never quite pushed over the edge? If you think there's not that many, you obviously never went to public school.
But for every teen suicide, how many kids (gay or straight) do you think go through hell every day of their adolescent lives, but are never quite pushed over the edge? If you think there's not that many, you obviously never went to public school.
36
For The Win.
I know: it looks like "Fuck The World" to me, too, even when I'm in a good mood which I pretty much am right now.
I mean not like ecstatic, but peachy.
I know: it looks like "Fuck The World" to me, too, even when I'm in a good mood which I pretty much am right now.
I mean not like ecstatic, but peachy.
38
Hello, my name is alec roth, and i got to Jefferson high school, alexandira MN. (it's not a rural town!) anyways, Lance was bullyed and it annoyed the hell out of me. I didn't know much about him, except that he had rumors/truth going around that he was gay, and that everyone should at least show some respect for the dude, wheather or not he had a huge heart or not.
I wore purple to school today in memorie of him, as purple was his favorite color. Over 500 people wore purple today. it affects everyone. not just the person that commits the suicide.
And to those that don't even give a crap about the poor dude that went to my school, get off this page and troll on youtube. cause i do.
I wore purple to school today in memorie of him, as purple was his favorite color. Over 500 people wore purple today. it affects everyone. not just the person that commits the suicide.
And to those that don't even give a crap about the poor dude that went to my school, get off this page and troll on youtube. cause i do.
39
If Lundsten's death turns out to be due to a heart condition it raises the question of what role stress played in causing that heart condition.
40
You know, if you all would just keep that "unregistered comments OFF" switch in the off position, we'd get very little of this BS. (Not zero, but a whole hell of a lot less than what we get now.)
So switch it to off, resist the temptation to read these when you see a bunch of them, esp. if someone decides they just have to engage these trolls, and watch what happens.
So switch it to off, resist the temptation to read these when you see a bunch of them, esp. if someone decides they just have to engage these trolls, and watch what happens.
41
i know this troll. he was a registered commenter at one time. i even met him about two years ago. he was so nice back then. sigh.
42
I graduated from that high school (Jefferson SENIOR High School, btw) back in the late 80s. My graduating class was around 350 people. If you weren't white, Christian, manly (or house-wifey, if one's genitals happened to be on the inside), and enjoyed killing animals (or cooking those animals, again, depending on genetial placement), you were a freak -- not only in the eyes of other students, but to the parents and neighbors who were often just as cruel and ignorant. Until the time I hauled my hetero ass to college, I had met a total of one black person, no Jewish people, and no Muslim people, and the idea of homosexuality was never mentioned except in the form of slurs.
I'm happy to have escaped to Washington (which I chose because, at the time, it was deemed the most un-churched state in the country, and was about has far from Minnesota as I could get without finally learning to swim). I thought that maybe the rise of the internet would help the rural kids open their eyes to the rest of the world, but based on my visits back, not much has changed over the past two decades (especially within one sibling's Jesus-crazy, innernet a-fearing brood of 9 kids, many of whom were home-schooled by their mother (bolstered by her post-secondary education consisting of a few months at beauty school)).
The anti-bullying regulations being adopted my many schools are steps in the right direction, but without also helping the students start to understand the people who aren't exactly like them, the regulations are likely received as just another attempt by the system to pussify our precious, carefully sheltered snowflakes.
The challenge: How to make kids (even/especially rural kids) understand how cool, powerful, necessary, and rewarding it is to embrace diversity -- in thought, appearance, ability, ethnicity, sexuality, religion (including non-religion), etc., etc.
More...
I'm happy to have escaped to Washington (which I chose because, at the time, it was deemed the most un-churched state in the country, and was about has far from Minnesota as I could get without finally learning to swim). I thought that maybe the rise of the internet would help the rural kids open their eyes to the rest of the world, but based on my visits back, not much has changed over the past two decades (especially within one sibling's Jesus-crazy, innernet a-fearing brood of 9 kids, many of whom were home-schooled by their mother (bolstered by her post-secondary education consisting of a few months at beauty school)).
The anti-bullying regulations being adopted my many schools are steps in the right direction, but without also helping the students start to understand the people who aren't exactly like them, the regulations are likely received as just another attempt by the system to pussify our precious, carefully sheltered snowflakes.
The challenge: How to make kids (even/especially rural kids) understand how cool, powerful, necessary, and rewarding it is to embrace diversity -- in thought, appearance, ability, ethnicity, sexuality, religion (including non-religion), etc., etc.
43
@Catalina
Dear Heaven your right! When I first came out, all I heard was how awful Dan Savage is and that he's not 'our' spokesman.
Bitter queens who can't take it like it is or handle other peoples success.
@22
When your heading down to the Cuff and BareBacking some stranger, your going to get HIV. Tough Shit.
Dear Heaven your right! When I first came out, all I heard was how awful Dan Savage is and that he's not 'our' spokesman.
Bitter queens who can't take it like it is or handle other peoples success.
@22
When your heading down to the Cuff and BareBacking some stranger, your going to get HIV. Tough Shit.
45
@42 Really excellent questions. It would be great if that "diversity education" could extend to the parents, as well.
46
Ah I see, so the fact he didn't die from suicide makes his being bullied for being gay is okay. Fucking trolls...
47
32
Listen up!
Are we dealing with an epidemic, here?
Of all the suicides that occur, of course some of them will be gay
Are we to blame here?
What's next? will poor danny boy want us to wear t-shirts with bulls-eye targets to the funerals?
Listen up!
Are we dealing with an epidemic, here?
Of all the suicides that occur, of course some of them will be gay
Are we to blame here?
What's next? will poor danny boy want us to wear t-shirts with bulls-eye targets to the funerals?
48
Do not tease or feed the trolls.
We're winning, either way. Even my uber-Xtian sister who won't eat pork and has paid ivy-league tuition to be educated under a rock (or The Rock, depending on where you're coming from) likes gay marriage.
:P
We're winning, either way. Even my uber-Xtian sister who won't eat pork and has paid ivy-league tuition to be educated under a rock (or The Rock, depending on where you're coming from) likes gay marriage.
:P
49
If Dan was trying to cover up the truth to further his own agenda, he wouldn't have posted what amounts to a retraction LESS THAN TWENTY MINUTES LATER.
fucktards
fucktards
50
@Alec/38
I'm glad to know that people have been showing their support. My condolences to you and your community for losing one of your own.
I'm glad to know that people have been showing their support. My condolences to you and your community for losing one of your own.
52
High School IS a tough, sometimes emotionally brutal, enviroment.
For pretty much everyone.
Society needs to address that reality.
In a way that actually helps, and helps everyone.
Dan created IGB based on the premise that there was an epidemic of homosexual high school suicide prompted by religiously motivated bigotry.
That premise is demonstrably factually false.
Lies and demogoguery and hatred of religion are a poor foundation for meaningful social change.
Distorting the root causes of the homosexual suicides that do occur to further Dan's agenda and craving for attention does a huge disservice to homosexual kids and is unconscionable.
The Slog DanFans should quit playing along and think instead of what will actually help the GLBT children.
The Truth will set you free:
How many actual Gay Bullying Suicides occured in the whole country in the past month?
In the past year?
What are the actual root causes of homosexual teen depression and suicide?
How can those be addressed?
"It Get's Better"?
"JUST SAY NO"?!
yeah. we've been there and done that.
OUT with the facile shallow meaningless "make the adults feel good" bullshit.
IN with some actual care and help for GLBT kids.....
For pretty much everyone.
Society needs to address that reality.
In a way that actually helps, and helps everyone.
Dan created IGB based on the premise that there was an epidemic of homosexual high school suicide prompted by religiously motivated bigotry.
That premise is demonstrably factually false.
Lies and demogoguery and hatred of religion are a poor foundation for meaningful social change.
Distorting the root causes of the homosexual suicides that do occur to further Dan's agenda and craving for attention does a huge disservice to homosexual kids and is unconscionable.
The Slog DanFans should quit playing along and think instead of what will actually help the GLBT children.
The Truth will set you free:
How many actual Gay Bullying Suicides occured in the whole country in the past month?
In the past year?
What are the actual root causes of homosexual teen depression and suicide?
How can those be addressed?
"It Get's Better"?
"JUST SAY NO"?!
yeah. we've been there and done that.
OUT with the facile shallow meaningless "make the adults feel good" bullshit.
IN with some actual care and help for GLBT kids.....
53
@Alec/38
I'm glad to know that people have been showing their support. My condolences to you and your community for losing one of your own.
I'm glad to know that people have been showing their support. My condolences to you and your community for losing one of your own.
54
Svensken, as a former employee of The Cuff, I feel it's my duty to say that it's entirely possible to "head down there" without "barebacking some stranger". In all the time I've been going there - both as a customer and an employee - I never did that. In fact, it is where I first met Mr. Vel-DuRay, all those years ago. What could be more romantic?
55
We used to assume that when a gay guy died, it was AIDS. Now we assume it was suicide due to bullying. I'm not sure what that says...
56
Tuesday night's episode of NCIS had a gay high school bullying theme. And they showed approval for gays wanting to serve in the military. Considering how highly rated the show is, it will hit a lot of eyeballs. I hope it reaches their hearts, too.
57
@52:Well get crackin' then! Start your own project to help bullied kids instead of whining about Dan's. As a formerly bullied teen I would be happy to participate, but until you put your money where your mouth is, you are accomplishing nothing here or anywhere else. And, particularly since you're not registered, it's making ya look like you're motivated by petty jealousy and spite instead of by true concern for the plight of our nation's teens.
60
@25, 27: Don't feed the trolls. Also, he meant implication, not "inference". I have no idea why people confuse these so much: they don't sound alike, except for a word-initial "i", and the meanings are not really that similar.
62
@55 it's also demonstrably different in that people do not blame bullies for being bullied. Whereas people DID blame gays for contracting AIDS, even if they didn't actually have AIDS.
63
I went to school with Lance. I never really talked to him, but I do know he was bullied. EVERYONE is bullied in my school. It might not be directly, but it happens. I wrote a note of facebook about bullying, and I want to bring attention to it. It has taken my time, and I already have had a tremendous impact. But, I want it to be heard by thousands! So please, read, then comment/like if you like, then please repost it on blogs, twitter, and facebook. Either way, Lance is gone, he was bullied, and there's no changing that. RIP Lance <3
http://www.facebook.com/notes/alex-sonju…
http://www.facebook.com/notes/alex-sonju…
66
" a school with anti-bullying programs and policies that do not cover or address anti-gay bullying. "
Why should they have policies that cover anti-gay bullying? I mean, besides how schools have policies involving racism.
But my point is this: if someone gets the shit kicked out of them persistently, they're being bullied, whether or not it's because they're gay or someone thinks they are. And the school's policy should cover it anyway.
Mind you, the homophobic closet case type bullies always think *everyone* (or is that everyone smaller than them?) is a faggot worthy of a beating.
Why should they have policies that cover anti-gay bullying? I mean, besides how schools have policies involving racism.
But my point is this: if someone gets the shit kicked out of them persistently, they're being bullied, whether or not it's because they're gay or someone thinks they are. And the school's policy should cover it anyway.
Mind you, the homophobic closet case type bullies always think *everyone* (or is that everyone smaller than them?) is a faggot worthy of a beating.
67
LANCE WAS NOT GAY OR BULLIED!
No one here will listen, I'm sure. Not only am I late, but you all seem a little off to me...
Anyhow, I'm Lance's best friend... If that even matters...
No one here will listen, I'm sure. Not only am I late, but you all seem a little off to me...
Anyhow, I'm Lance's best friend... If that even matters...
68
Everyone who dare judge, go to hell. A young beautiful man has died all because it some assholes care what he does in his bedroom. The people who contributed to his death, u will stand before God and have the ultimate judgment upon u. May u never have a moment of peace in your lives.
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