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News & ArtsFriday, January 7, 2011
Homo We Don't Allow Gay-Straight Student Alliances At Our Schools Because Vulnerable Gay Teenagers...
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 9:37 AM
...are just like Nazis.
The [Catholic] Halton Catholic District School Board (HCDSB)... feels the groups are harmful, and has issued a ban on GSA’s altogether. “We don’t have Nazi groups either,” rationalizes board chair Alice Anne LeMay. “Gay-Straight Alliances are banned because they are not within the teachings of the Catholic Church."
The Catholic Church, of course, has demonstrated a willingness to work with Nazi groups in the past.
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Why parents still wonder why I left the church after I turned 18... what a miserable existence, to be so bigoted and hateful.
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Aw, sweetie, you are so talented!...I was trying to cut and paste my link, to no avail...muchas gracias, mwah!
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It is ironic that Catholics would compare gay groups to the Nazis, who the Roman Catholics aided. They're just grasping at straws. All they needed to say was that the gay lifestyle is against their teachings. As a religious institution, that presumably does not receive public funding, the school has a right to that no matter how it affects their students. Why is it that we must call everything we don't like Nazis?
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Maybe I'm missing something here (and yes, the Catholic Church is scum), but it's a Catholic school. And this really isn't within the teachings of the church. The only outrage here is that they're getting tax dollars to pull this kind of bullshit.
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The enemy of my enemy is apparently still my enemy if I'm the Catholic Chuch. You'd think that allying with a Nazi stance might be a big clue-in that it's fucking crazy.
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I once was accused of Nazi behavior when I posted "Safe Sex is Hot Sex" postcards on my dorm door. People are so fucked up about what nazism actually is.
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@7 You might think that, but it's not true. Catholic aid agencies regularly get government contracts and support for nominally secular activities, like feeding people, adoption agencies, etc., and in some places, Catholic schools get some of that school tax money for the secular portion of their curriculum.
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@6: No, he didn't. About 10 to 20 million people died as a result of Stalin's policies, and at least half of that was due to famines brought on by mismanagement. Additionally, the purges and executions were political rather than ethnocentric in nature; it is often remarked that Stalin hated everybody equally. Stalin is much more comparable to Robespierre than Hitler, in terms of killing people.
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@7 Jamie: "As a religious institution, that presumably does not receive public funding"....
Unfortunately, the Catholic schools in Canada are publicly funded, I guess because Canada has such a large Catholic population. You can send your kids to public (secular) or separate (Catholic) school. In some areas that have a Catholic majority, the secular schools are the ones called "separate." However, they are still bound by some basic rules, and from what I read, the Ontario Ministry of Education may have some leverage...fire off an email to the Ministry or Halton Board if you have time, links are @4.
Unfortunately, the Catholic schools in Canada are publicly funded, I guess because Canada has such a large Catholic population. You can send your kids to public (secular) or separate (Catholic) school. In some areas that have a Catholic majority, the secular schools are the ones called "separate." However, they are still bound by some basic rules, and from what I read, the Ontario Ministry of Education may have some leverage...fire off an email to the Ministry or Halton Board if you have time, links are @4.
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That Catholic school so does too have a GSA. It's called Catholic Youth Ministries and it's the club for all the future seminarians. Plus drama club.
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-- Board Chair Anne Alice LeMay: lemaya@hcdsb.org
-- List of all Board members and their email addresses: http://www.hcdsb.org/Board/Trustees/Page…
-- Ontario Ministry of Education: http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/about/conta…
-- List of all Board members and their email addresses: http://www.hcdsb.org/Board/Trustees/Page…
-- Ontario Ministry of Education: http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/about/conta…
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Apparently it's more righteous to pull a man's head off for political disagreements than because he looks funny.
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Catholic schools should be forced by the government to allow "Satanic Fags" clubs too!
Anything less is BIGOTED and UNACCEPTABLE!
Anything less is BIGOTED and UNACCEPTABLE!
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Thanks for the head's up, Dan--I'm drafting my strongly worded letter to my Member of Provincial Parliament now.
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This is why Ontario (along with Alberta and Saskatchewan) needs to catch up with the rest of Canada and do away with the separate school system. It is an archaic carry-over from Confederation that makes no sense today - educationally, socially, or economically.
Quebec did it. Newfoundland did it. Wake up, Ontario.
Quebec did it. Newfoundland did it. Wake up, Ontario.
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Hey Canuck, aren't Canadians still considered subjects of the Queen, who's head of the Church of England anyways? How does your government get away with helping fund a competing cult?
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We are, OuterCow (my inner Bostonian is shuddering...), it's true. When my husband signs a contract with the government, there's this bit about "Her Majesty blah blah", it's...odd. You'd think getting their collective asses kicked on the Plains of Abraham would have convinced those crazy Catholics to lay low, but dang, they are so demanding...the Queen should definitely consider coming over and throwing some royal weight around. "Out of sight, out of mind," I suppose is her reasoning... ;)
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23: The Queen is Canada's head of state, but Canadians aren't "subjects of the Queen," they're Commonwealth citizens. Also, "faith schools" in England--which include non-Anglican schools--are funded by the government.
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@25 Although the term "subject" was replaced by "Commonwealth citizen," Canadians certainly sound like subjects of the Queen, hence the following discussion one night after Cub Scouts at our house a number of years ago:
Kid: "We had to swear to do our duty to the Queen."
Mum: "Do you know who that is?"
Kid: "Yes, she's God's wife."
Plus, as I said above, Mr. Canuck signs contracts swearing/promising something to the Queen, can't remember what...
Kid: "We had to swear to do our duty to the Queen."
Mum: "Do you know who that is?"
Kid: "Yes, she's God's wife."
Plus, as I said above, Mr. Canuck signs contracts swearing/promising something to the Queen, can't remember what...
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26: That's an good story. However, "Queen's subject" and "British subject" are specific legal terms, and Canadians are neither. The Queen is Canada's head of state, but she's the head of a constitutional, not an abosulute, monarchy. Canadians are no more "subjects of the Queen" than Americans are "subjects of the president."
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Let's ask the Government of Canada:
"In today's constitutional monarchy, Queen Elizabeth II is Queen of Canada and Canada's Head of State. She is the personal embodiment of the Crown in Canada.
"In Canada’s system of government, the power to govern is vested in the Crown but is entrusted to the government to use on behalf of the people. The Crown reminds the government of the day that the source of the power to govern rests elsewhere and that it is only given to them for a limited duration. As an enduring institution, the Crown serves to safeguard Canadians’ rights and freedoms."
It's all pretty symbolic. Oaths to the Queen are not dissimilar to pledges of allegiance to flags, republics, constitutions, and other such items that embody the sovereignty of a nation.
"In today's constitutional monarchy, Queen Elizabeth II is Queen of Canada and Canada's Head of State. She is the personal embodiment of the Crown in Canada.
"In Canada’s system of government, the power to govern is vested in the Crown but is entrusted to the government to use on behalf of the people. The Crown reminds the government of the day that the source of the power to govern rests elsewhere and that it is only given to them for a limited duration. As an enduring institution, the Crown serves to safeguard Canadians’ rights and freedoms."
It's all pretty symbolic. Oaths to the Queen are not dissimilar to pledges of allegiance to flags, republics, constitutions, and other such items that embody the sovereignty of a nation.
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Elizabeth II is queen of Canada, a position that commands no jurisdiction over policy. What other jobs she may hold down in her spare time to make ends meet are no concern of ours since we don't pay her anything at all. ;)
The article Dan links to points out that plenty of Catholic schools have GSA.s This is not really a religious issue so much as an elected board of bigots intent on defying public policy, much like the equally odious but fully public board in Surrey BC that squandered a million dollars of taxpayer money to fight a losing battle to ban gay books all the way to the Supreme Court.
The Catholic Church itself has no control over the board's policies.
The concept is a bit hard to understand for Americans used to their type of Catholic schools but I can best explain it like this:
Catholic schools in Ontario are fully-publicly funded schools that (at the high school level) are open to all. They are run by elected school boards and are subject to the same laws and policies as public schools. They are not run by the church.
The article Dan links to points out that plenty of Catholic schools have GSA.s This is not really a religious issue so much as an elected board of bigots intent on defying public policy, much like the equally odious but fully public board in Surrey BC that squandered a million dollars of taxpayer money to fight a losing battle to ban gay books all the way to the Supreme Court.
The Catholic Church itself has no control over the board's policies.
The concept is a bit hard to understand for Americans used to their type of Catholic schools but I can best explain it like this:
Catholic schools in Ontario are fully-publicly funded schools that (at the high school level) are open to all. They are run by elected school boards and are subject to the same laws and policies as public schools. They are not run by the church.
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Heil heil! Our Nazi Club was WAY better than our GSA, though they both had pretty sharp outfits. Ah high school, I'll always miss my days of marching Jews to death camps and making posters denouncing homophobia.
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@22: Yes, thank you. That we still fund Catholic schools with tax dollars peeves me off to no end, and has always left the province vulnerable to questions of discrimination (why not other religious schools? etc.).
@13: I admit I'm not fact-checking this, but I'm fairly sure that if you don't have at least one Catholic parent, you cannot enroll in a Catholic school (and thus take advantage of what many people, including plenty of non-Catholics, view as the system "superior" to the public, secular system). All in all, pure garbage.
@13: I admit I'm not fact-checking this, but I'm fairly sure that if you don't have at least one Catholic parent, you cannot enroll in a Catholic school (and thus take advantage of what many people, including plenty of non-Catholics, view as the system "superior" to the public, secular system). All in all, pure garbage.
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@29: "Catholic schools in Ontario are fully-publicly funded schools that (at the high school level) are open to all."
Ok, maybe I'm thinking of elementary schools? My co-worker recently tried to enroll her four-year-old in a Catholic school, and he wasn't allowed.
Ok, maybe I'm thinking of elementary schools? My co-worker recently tried to enroll her four-year-old in a Catholic school, and he wasn't allowed.
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@29: "Catholic schools in Ontario are fully-publicly funded schools that (at the high school level) are open to all. They are run by elected school boards and are subject to the same laws and policies as public schools. They are not run by the church."
This is pretty much correct, as far as it goes, but it is also true that the separate school boards have considerable leeway in how they interpret those laws and policies and that religion - the Roman Catholic religion in the case of Ontario separate schools - has a strong influence on how they do so. I'm not sure what the current status is but in the very recent past teacher hiring decisions included consideration of the applicant's religion, separate school teachers were fired for being openly gay, etc., all in violation of the provincial Human Rights Code (which contains an explicit exception for the rights and privileges of separate schools).
When I lived in Ontario, I had my choice of four - FOUR - different school boards and systems for my children (English and French; public and separate). That is a ridiculous duplication (quadruplication?) of resources and efforts.
This is pretty much correct, as far as it goes, but it is also true that the separate school boards have considerable leeway in how they interpret those laws and policies and that religion - the Roman Catholic religion in the case of Ontario separate schools - has a strong influence on how they do so. I'm not sure what the current status is but in the very recent past teacher hiring decisions included consideration of the applicant's religion, separate school teachers were fired for being openly gay, etc., all in violation of the provincial Human Rights Code (which contains an explicit exception for the rights and privileges of separate schools).
When I lived in Ontario, I had my choice of four - FOUR - different school boards and systems for my children (English and French; public and separate). That is a ridiculous duplication (quadruplication?) of resources and efforts.
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5280 nailed it. We can't expect the Catholic Church to stop being hypocritical jackasses, it's their right and they're going to exercise it. But public funds going to Catholic education? That could be stopped and should be stopped.
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Gloria, it depends on the school. For example, in the town north of us, Cochrane, Alberta, there are two Catholic schools. One takes anyone, although you have to agree to take a religion class, and the other doesn't admit kids unless both of their farking grandparents were baptized Catholic, proof required (I am not joking.) I know this because my daughter decided she wanted a "change of pace" for her last two years of school, and went to the inclusive Catholic high school. She got a change of pace, alright: she learned some nifty racial slurs, she got to comfort her gay friend when the jocks wouldn't let him in the pool, and she learned she didn't want to live in a redneck town after she graduated.
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In Ontario, when paying your property taxes, you get to choose which school board you pay towards, the Public or Catholic school system.
Regarding hiring practices, that is less clear. It is true that certain positions, such as administration positions, require letters from your parish priest noting that you consistently attend and participate at church. For teachers in the system those letters are usually required but exceptions were made a few years back and whenever there is a need for more teachers in the system.
Also you must have a Catholic parent in order to attend a Catholic elementary school; however, anyone has access to Catholic secondary schools. You are required to take a religious studies class every year, regardless of your personal religion. There are other religious based schools (private schools) where there are restrictions based on religion.
Regarding hiring practices, that is less clear. It is true that certain positions, such as administration positions, require letters from your parish priest noting that you consistently attend and participate at church. For teachers in the system those letters are usually required but exceptions were made a few years back and whenever there is a need for more teachers in the system.
Also you must have a Catholic parent in order to attend a Catholic elementary school; however, anyone has access to Catholic secondary schools. You are required to take a religious studies class every year, regardless of your personal religion. There are other religious based schools (private schools) where there are restrictions based on religion.
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Apparently comparing gays to Nazis is the latest trend: http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/…
For the Catholics to be making this claim is not only ludicrous but also demonstrates historical amnesia, since a) as noted above, the Catholics didn't exactly behave admirably during WWII and b) gays were also persecuted by the Nazis, and by many accounts gays were in fact the ones subjected to the worst treatment in concentration camps.
For the Catholics to be making this claim is not only ludicrous but also demonstrates historical amnesia, since a) as noted above, the Catholics didn't exactly behave admirably during WWII and b) gays were also persecuted by the Nazis, and by many accounts gays were in fact the ones subjected to the worst treatment in concentration camps.
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33, yes it's true they have considerable leeway when it comes to hiring. When it comes to students, however, the rights of the students are paramount. They could refuse to hire an openly gay teacher, but not expell an openly gay student, or refuse admission to the child of a same-sex couple.
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Hahaha, Holy Crap (pun fully intended) I grew up in Halton County! There are only 4 town's Oakville, Burlington, Milton, and Georgetown in the county. Back in the 80's when I went to high school there was only 1 Catholic H.S., Assumption in Burlington that bussed in kids from the entire county. There might have been one further north in G-Town but don't remember. There is a huge Italian community which mostly feeds the catholic schools. So maybe she should've said Mussolini - LOL
When I was in school there were tons of kids that lived walking distance to my H.S, but we being bussed an hour away to Assumption. Back then the Catholic schools were only partially funded there was an annual tuition plus you had to pay for uniforms too. When they became fully funded enrollment sky rocketed. Few years after I left my first H.S. closed due to declining enrollment and a few years later was re-opened at full capacity as a Catholic school.
For being part of the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) Halton always was a very very conservative place. Looking at the pics of the dinosaurs on the HCDSB I'm not surprised they would say something so dumb. But the cute one at the bottom of the list though looks like a total Mo!
When I was in school there were tons of kids that lived walking distance to my H.S, but we being bussed an hour away to Assumption. Back then the Catholic schools were only partially funded there was an annual tuition plus you had to pay for uniforms too. When they became fully funded enrollment sky rocketed. Few years after I left my first H.S. closed due to declining enrollment and a few years later was re-opened at full capacity as a Catholic school.
For being part of the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) Halton always was a very very conservative place. Looking at the pics of the dinosaurs on the HCDSB I'm not surprised they would say something so dumb. But the cute one at the bottom of the list though looks like a total Mo!
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@Likemtall: The cute one at the bottom who looks like a total Mo, is a Mo. :) His young self has been causing quite a stir in our backwards little district.
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