Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, December 21, 2010
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: The Electric Company You Keep
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 11:10 AM
I have to point out something. The speaker on behalf of Body Electric on this week's "Savage Lovecast" insisted that their program is "not just for gay men," but then went on to specifically describe some pretty damned homoerotic stuff. I don't understand why some people can't get the concept of "straight" through their heads. Straight men are, by definition, generally uninterested in being erotically touched by other men. If they are interested in being erotically touched by other men, then they've got, as you've called it, a touch of the bi (and they should just nut up and admit that instead of inventing a thousand euphemisms for it). The point is that a straight guy is just way less likely to volunteer for that experience, so Body Electric has created for itself a self-selecting group of participants. I'm very happy for the people who got something out of it, but the Body Electric people are fooling themselves if they think they're "open to straight men." That's a bit like a strip joint that features only female dancers saying that they "cater to the gay male crowd, too." It's just boneheaded.Orion
P.S. I really appreciated your scepticism of his new-age explanation, by the way. Thanks for that.
My response after the jump...
••••••••••••••••••
When Body Electric's Bob Findle mentioned the mutual anal massage part of the program... well, I figured that was setting the bar pretty/impossibly high for straight guys. But there are lots of straight-identified men out there who have, as I've said, "a touch of the bi." And many of these mostly/nearly straight guys round themselves down to straight and that's I think that's legit—so long as the rounded down are being honest with themselves and others—and these guys might get something out of volunteering for a little mutual anal massage in a consciousness-riasing workshop setting.
Or not.
And for the record: the Body Electric experience won't appeal to most straight guys, for obvious/straight reasons, but Body Electric's self-selection process transcends sexual orientation. While it may be true that most of men who would attend a workshop that required them to massage anuses/have their anuses massaged are gay, it doesn't follow that most gay men would go to that workshop. Given a choice between going to a workshop and having my naked anus massaged by a strange man and staying fully clothed at a strip club that features only female dancers, I'd pick the strip every time.
5
As someone who has attended several Body Electric workshops, I feel compelled to speak. First, the "introductory" workshop -- Celebrating the Body Erotic --does NOT include anal massage or anal touching or anything of the sort. When I took the workshop, there were three straight men taking the course. And I'm quite confident they were straight. The introductory workshop is really not that erotic -- its purpose is to deepen one's connection to one's body and soul. I should also mention that -- as a 100% exclusively gay male -- I have taken Body Electric workshops that included woman -- allowing myself to be touched by women. This does not make me straight or even "bi-curious." It makes me someone who is looking to dig deeper to reach the depths of his Divinity.
6
Yeah, anal massage? I've got nothing. But, in case people start heading off to parts unknown, I would like to wish Dan and his family, you charming Sloggers, and my darling twin-brain gus the happiest of holidays, egg nog that is more nog than egg, and too many cookies.
7
Body Electric sounds like a lot of new age nonsense to me, anal massage or no anal massage.
I can enjoy anal massage all day with my significant other. At a workshop full of strangers? No thank you.
I can enjoy anal massage all day with my significant other. At a workshop full of strangers? No thank you.
10
Thanks, Canuck, you too. And all drive safe in the awful weather we seem to be having all over the country.
11
Canuck, points to you for coupling "anal massage" with "heading off for parts unknown."
Same back at you re: holiday joy, to you and Mr. Canuck and all y'all.
Same back at you re: holiday joy, to you and Mr. Canuck and all y'all.
12
@7 -- thanks for continuing to demonstrate that the "Seattle Freeze" is alive and well and that Seattlites continue to be -- in the words of a fellow Slogger -- "judgmental asshats."
13
@12, I think crafting asshats together would be a nice follow up to the group anal massages. Body Electric's about to get a lot more festive!
14
As I listened to that dude talking, at first I was kinda into it. Erotic massage kind of a thing? Okay, that's pretty cool. I'm down.
But then he started getting all softheaded with talk about chi and magical energy and seeking Divinity and it started to sound less like a sexy massage club and more like a weird, sorta-closeted cult. Like Scientology, only with cock rubs instead of personality tests.
But then he started getting all softheaded with talk about chi and magical energy and seeking Divinity and it started to sound less like a sexy massage club and more like a weird, sorta-closeted cult. Like Scientology, only with cock rubs instead of personality tests.
16
Exactly, @15. First it's inflamed chakras, next thing you know a popped o-ring prolapses. Suddenly cross-legged sitting is impossible until well after New Year's.
17
@5/12 Sounds like you are very easily separated from your money. I have a number of hare-brained schemes you may be interested in, all of which are guaranteed to deepen your Divinity.
18
I just saw an asshat pattern in Martha Stewart! You bring the glitter, I'll bring the glue, and Fnarf can entertain everone with an interpretive dance of the birth of the baby jesus.
19
Yes, @12, clearly it's only a "Seattle Freeze" attitude that would discourage a person from having their anus massaged by a stranger in front of a group of people. Such hostility! Just accept it, please: your particular hobby is never going to be for everyone, or even necessarily most people. Enjoy your divinity-depth-reaching, but I'll pass, thanks.
20
Not the most honest SL letter. The guy chides them for claiming to be "open to straight men" by comparing that to a female-only strip club claiming to "cater to the gay male crowd, too." Being open means you don't turn people away, you accept them if they choose to, er, come, and so on. Catering to a crowd means optimizing the experience for that crowd. Two totally different things.
So what? Most straight guys won't be into Body Electric. That doesn't meant there's something wrong with them hanging a "straights welcome" sign out, does it?
So what? Most straight guys won't be into Body Electric. That doesn't meant there's something wrong with them hanging a "straights welcome" sign out, does it?
21
It's a plan, Canuck. We should start thinking about different styles and sizes.
I tend to think the proper asshat would be jaunty but diminutive, not to cover but to accent.
Like the one Reno 911's superannuated hustler Terry wore serving burritos and selling five-dollar tug jobs at Tacos Tacos Tacos Tacos.
http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/photo…
I tend to think the proper asshat would be jaunty but diminutive, not to cover but to accent.
Like the one Reno 911's superannuated hustler Terry wore serving burritos and selling five-dollar tug jobs at Tacos Tacos Tacos Tacos.
http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/photo…
22
Anyone else get kind of distracted when Dan started talking about getting his naked anus massaged?
23
@19 -- I'm so glad you actually choose to read people's comments before posting a knee-jerk reaction. If you had actually READ my comment, you would have noticed that the workshop of which I speak DOES NOT INCLUDE ANAL MASSAGE. But again, your moronic judgmental attitude speaks volumes about "the Seattle freeze."
25
Yes, fine on the yes/no anal massage dichotomy. And the asshat crafting. I finally got my overlock machine to work, so I can do the edging, as soon as I can figure out how to disengage the blade.
But for the love of Christ, can you copy-edit your posts, Dan?
But for the love of Christ, can you copy-edit your posts, Dan?
26
Yes, fine on the yes/no anal massage dichotomy. And the asshat crafting. I finally got my overlock machine to work, so I can do the edging.
But for the love of Christ, can you copy-edit your posts, Dan?
But for the love of Christ, can you copy-edit your posts, Dan?
27
My fecking iPhone won't load your picture, gus, but I'm sure it's stunning. And agree, the asshat should never mask the assishness of the person wearing it. I belive it was Emily Post who said "Always wear your asshat, never let your asshat wear you."
Re: the overlock machine: A glue gun and top stitching should do the trick, save the serger for when we're making Santa thongs.
Re: the overlock machine: A glue gun and top stitching should do the trick, save the serger for when we're making Santa thongs.
28
@24 -- No, Body Electric is not 100% gay. I took my certification from them, and there were at least a third of the class who were straight men, along with several women (who didn't telegraph their affectional preferences).
I'm not a straight man, and I do love having my anus played with, but not in a group setting with complete or even comparative strangers, thank you. That's not part of the main curriculum at Body Electric anyway, which is a comprehensive certification in massage that meets California State requirements and includes instruction in several different types of massage techniques.
I'm not a straight man, and I do love having my anus played with, but not in a group setting with complete or even comparative strangers, thank you. That's not part of the main curriculum at Body Electric anyway, which is a comprehensive certification in massage that meets California State requirements and includes instruction in several different types of massage techniques.
30
@1 OH GOD NO!! Please do not let WiS be a burlesque fan. I really would like to have NOTHING in common with that moron. I think I just threw up in my mouth.
@2Fnarf, I hope you are wrong since burlesque pays a lot of my bills :-/
@2Fnarf, I hope you are wrong since burlesque pays a lot of my bills :-/
32
this group smacks a little of cultiness. Be careful with your time and money..especially from a systematic program that requires an escalating investment of time, money, and identity.
34
Canuck and Gus:
Let me know when the crafting starts and I'll bring sequins.
I think an asshat should sparkle.
Let me know when the crafting starts and I'll bring sequins.
I think an asshat should sparkle.
35
Asshat's are pretty much required to sparkle, nocutname, totally agree. How else would we spot the wearers at night? Feathers would be good, too.
Fnarf, I will be giddy with anticipation waiting for your interpretive dance. In fact, I think it would be rather unsporting of you NOT to post a preview on Youtube. I know your Etsy costume probably hasn't arrived yet, but we'll use our imaginations. You go, girl!!
Fnarf, I will be giddy with anticipation waiting for your interpretive dance. In fact, I think it would be rather unsporting of you NOT to post a preview on Youtube. I know your Etsy costume probably hasn't arrived yet, but we'll use our imaginations. You go, girl!!
37
Getting in touch with your body is great and all, but, uh... it seems like most people should do a little exercise and eat a few vegetables before they move on to to group anal tai chi.
38
Getting back to the original caller - a straight guy without a "touch of the gay" - his girlfriend shouldn't be pressuring him to attend this. Even if you're 100% gay as I am, the chances of me wanting to touch and be touched by a random group of men are non-existent. The chance of me wanting to do it with men who want to do this, but have to pay to participate in a group in order to accomplish it - less than zero.
39
Dan: But there are lots of straight-identified men out there who have, as I've said, "a touch of the bi." And many of these mostly/nearly straight guys round themselves down to straight and that's I think that's legit—so long as the rounded down are being honest with themselves and others...
I'm curious what kinds of physically intimate things a straight guy could do with another guy, and with what frequency, and still "legitimately" round himself down to being straight? I'm not suggesting there's a definitive answer. I just wonder what different opinions people would have.
Letter writer: I have to point out something. The speaker on behalf of Body Electric on this week's "Savage Lovecast" insisted that their program is "not just for gay men," . . . the Body Electric people are fooling themselves if they think they're "open to straight men."
I don't know anything about the Body Electric but, from reading this, "not just for gay men" sounds accurate, since (some) bi guys would probably be interested. And while it may be open to straight men, I'm with the letter writer in that I'm sure only "rounded down" straight men would attend. Guys are great -- I have guys who are great friends as well as two brothers and I wish women could be more like guys in some ways (e.g. more into music, more sexual) -- but mutual anal massage with another guy? No interest whatsoever. Unless he was Kate Beckinsale.
I'm curious what kinds of physically intimate things a straight guy could do with another guy, and with what frequency, and still "legitimately" round himself down to being straight? I'm not suggesting there's a definitive answer. I just wonder what different opinions people would have.
Letter writer: I have to point out something. The speaker on behalf of Body Electric on this week's "Savage Lovecast" insisted that their program is "not just for gay men," . . . the Body Electric people are fooling themselves if they think they're "open to straight men."
I don't know anything about the Body Electric but, from reading this, "not just for gay men" sounds accurate, since (some) bi guys would probably be interested. And while it may be open to straight men, I'm with the letter writer in that I'm sure only "rounded down" straight men would attend. Guys are great -- I have guys who are great friends as well as two brothers and I wish women could be more like guys in some ways (e.g. more into music, more sexual) -- but mutual anal massage with another guy? No interest whatsoever. Unless he was Kate Beckinsale.
40
@5, 12 Anyone on a sincere quest to 'reach the depths of his divinity,' should anticipate some eye-rolling and mocking from a community with so many skeptics/atheists/agnostics. New age blather is at least as giggle-inducing as Magic Baby Jesus blather.
Having said that, I really do want a judgmental asshat to wear to the interpretive dance.
Having said that, I really do want a judgmental asshat to wear to the interpretive dance.
41
I also attended the intro Body Electric workshop here years ago, and its not at all what most people assume. And yes there were DEFINITELY straight men there, including married guys; at that time the men's intro workshop was required if you wanted to subsequently attend the more advanced mixed workshop for women and men (which I eventually did). And no the intro workshop did not get "anal" as I recall (much more advanced ones do however and I would be very surprised to find straight-identified men there).
My problem with the workshops is that they can really shatter a person's psyche by the end of the weekend, leaving people completely on their own to pick up the pieces. Personally I was floating on air.
My problem with the workshops is that they can really shatter a person's psyche by the end of the weekend, leaving people completely on their own to pick up the pieces. Personally I was floating on air.
42
My personal experience of body electric is a couple of older gays bending over backwards to convince me and a buddy over a period of months that there was nothing gay whatsoever about a bunch of guys going into the woods and rolling around naked.
The pretence of "men don't have enough opportunities to connect with other men or themselves emotionally and spiritually, was quickly washed away by their drool as they oogled us.
Boy did those ladies protest if you referred to their thing as a "gay camp"
The pretence of "men don't have enough opportunities to connect with other men or themselves emotionally and spiritually, was quickly washed away by their drool as they oogled us.
Boy did those ladies protest if you referred to their thing as a "gay camp"
43
I appreciate the comments from those who have been to Body Electric workshops. I haven't, but I've been a student of tantra for several years and I like hearing people's reports.
To the skeptics. . .you're really being narrow-minded and you don't know what you're missing. Which is fine -- I'm not interested in converting people or changing minds. But assuming you know everything there is to know about sexuality, or about experiences that feel spiritual -- when you haven't given something like this a try -- is dumbassery.
To the skeptics. . .you're really being narrow-minded and you don't know what you're missing. Which is fine -- I'm not interested in converting people or changing minds. But assuming you know everything there is to know about sexuality, or about experiences that feel spiritual -- when you haven't given something like this a try -- is dumbassery.
44
I'm sure it would be plenty 'spiritual' and all having some creepy old dude's finger up my butt, but you know what they say..... there are many paths in this world.
45
Dude, he totally printed my letter. Wicked.
Dan makes a good point when he says that not all gay men would attend BE. I didn't mean to imply that they would, but it's a fair point nonetheless.
If the intro class *doesn't* involve erotic touch (I didn't even hear the words "anal massage" so I won't reference that), then Bob should have made that a whole lot clearer. For all those who've attended the classes and gotten something out of them, I'm very happy for you (really, I am!), but saying that they're "open" to straight men attending and then going on and on about male-on-male erotic touch would indicate (if that were the nature of the classes) that they're not actually creating an environment that's open to them. They're just hanging a sign on the door and then not acknowledging what straight guys most likely are willing to do in said classes. Yes, I'm welcome to attend, but I'm not actually going to if what they describe is homoerotic massage.
I don't have a problem with people rounding themselves up to straight or gay if they're only a wee bit bi--I have had a few girlfriends who've made that exact call--but I do have a problem with people deluding themselves, avoiding acknowledging that they're not straight by making up euphemisms like 'heteroflexible.' It induces about the same level of eye-rolling as when I heard Mr. Findle talking about spreading your ball energy throughout your body.
Dan makes a good point when he says that not all gay men would attend BE. I didn't mean to imply that they would, but it's a fair point nonetheless.
If the intro class *doesn't* involve erotic touch (I didn't even hear the words "anal massage" so I won't reference that), then Bob should have made that a whole lot clearer. For all those who've attended the classes and gotten something out of them, I'm very happy for you (really, I am!), but saying that they're "open" to straight men attending and then going on and on about male-on-male erotic touch would indicate (if that were the nature of the classes) that they're not actually creating an environment that's open to them. They're just hanging a sign on the door and then not acknowledging what straight guys most likely are willing to do in said classes. Yes, I'm welcome to attend, but I'm not actually going to if what they describe is homoerotic massage.
I don't have a problem with people rounding themselves up to straight or gay if they're only a wee bit bi--I have had a few girlfriends who've made that exact call--but I do have a problem with people deluding themselves, avoiding acknowledging that they're not straight by making up euphemisms like 'heteroflexible.' It induces about the same level of eye-rolling as when I heard Mr. Findle talking about spreading your ball energy throughout your body.
46
It might be worth mentioning that the Body Electric runs a slew of different courses, basically tied to particular (body part, gender) pairs. Dropping the new age nomenclature, their class progression was:
1- Basic Gender Segregated Introductory Massage: Penile massage in male-only setting, vaginal massage in female-only setting.
2- Male Only Buttwork.
3- Mixed Gender Genital Massage: Males massage vaginas, females massage penises.
4- Mixed Gender Anal Massage: Males/females massage female/male anuses.
5- Single and Mixed Gender SM: Basic bondage and flagellation.
6- Male only "advanced" workshops: Really good genital massage, buttwork, and fisting.
On the surface, it is possible that some straight people (not even bi) might be comfortable in the mixed gender classes, and in fact I seem to recall having met about one such men when I did their (unfortunately named) "2 Spirits Workshop". And while I can't recall his name, he seemed quite friendly and pleasant. But at least 4 years ago, the basic penile massage class was a prerequisite for the mixed gender classes. The male version of this basic class was a very gay weekend that involved:
- Pleasant communal meals at a rural retreat center in New Hampshire.
- Walking around in circles hugging each other.
- Breaking into groups and stripping everyone.
- A solid day of playing with each other's penises: practicing the 18 named massage strokes and breathing for non-ejaculatory multiple orgasm.
I'm a bit dubious about the idea that many straight people would particularly enjoy the huggings and strippings, but maybe they'd simply spend the weekend thinking about the number of women who'd have sex with them on this story. If it works for them then it works for me.
For what it's worth, my main objection to the school is that the overwhelming majority of instructors were depressed ex-catholics trying to replicate their experience of going to church.
More...
1- Basic Gender Segregated Introductory Massage: Penile massage in male-only setting, vaginal massage in female-only setting.
2- Male Only Buttwork.
3- Mixed Gender Genital Massage: Males massage vaginas, females massage penises.
4- Mixed Gender Anal Massage: Males/females massage female/male anuses.
5- Single and Mixed Gender SM: Basic bondage and flagellation.
6- Male only "advanced" workshops: Really good genital massage, buttwork, and fisting.
On the surface, it is possible that some straight people (not even bi) might be comfortable in the mixed gender classes, and in fact I seem to recall having met about one such men when I did their (unfortunately named) "2 Spirits Workshop". And while I can't recall his name, he seemed quite friendly and pleasant. But at least 4 years ago, the basic penile massage class was a prerequisite for the mixed gender classes. The male version of this basic class was a very gay weekend that involved:
- Pleasant communal meals at a rural retreat center in New Hampshire.
- Walking around in circles hugging each other.
- Breaking into groups and stripping everyone.
- A solid day of playing with each other's penises: practicing the 18 named massage strokes and breathing for non-ejaculatory multiple orgasm.
I'm a bit dubious about the idea that many straight people would particularly enjoy the huggings and strippings, but maybe they'd simply spend the weekend thinking about the number of women who'd have sex with them on this story. If it works for them then it works for me.
For what it's worth, my main objection to the school is that the overwhelming majority of instructors were depressed ex-catholics trying to replicate their experience of going to church.
48
Having been through two workshops myself, there's validity to both the work and to cynicism about the work and everything commercially associated with it.
In a sense, it's very Eat Pray Love, because it's about tweezing stuff out of closed-off people in ways that only the very privileged can afford (and at those prices, that's the point exactly). The offer is one of a vaguely "superior" non-Western sense of enlightenment for those who have attained all that they can materially, and everyone else can just fuck right off.
There are some principles in the workshops that are very useful for people in the same ways that Dan's advice is useful in that they're designed to get past a lot of the shame and guilt associated with sex and our bodies, but I'm not sure that gaining those insights is worth spending over $300 for a two-day workshop (not including travel expenses) or over $1600 (again, excluding travel expenses) for a one-week retreat in residence.
Speaking personally, I guess I'm one of those metaphysically delusional types who'd really like to get past the cultural shorthand that goes into identifying people by what/who they choose to fuck, but I'm realistic enough to know that we as a species are dozens of generations away from achieving a blurry resemblance of it.
What Bob didn't mention is that Body Electric wasn't really the first group to do this kind of exploration, just the first one that was created for gay men. There were already groups doing this kind of work, but they were for straight people (HBO's Real Sex series featured one such group somewhat early on in the show's existence), so there was arguably a niche for gay men to make the same explorations in an environment that was at least nominally less exclusionary.
So yeah, I'm not so ready to deal with BE in terms of the two extremes of a sexual continuum, but in ways that are more germane to the institution itself, there are certainly other concerns.
More...
In a sense, it's very Eat Pray Love, because it's about tweezing stuff out of closed-off people in ways that only the very privileged can afford (and at those prices, that's the point exactly). The offer is one of a vaguely "superior" non-Western sense of enlightenment for those who have attained all that they can materially, and everyone else can just fuck right off.
There are some principles in the workshops that are very useful for people in the same ways that Dan's advice is useful in that they're designed to get past a lot of the shame and guilt associated with sex and our bodies, but I'm not sure that gaining those insights is worth spending over $300 for a two-day workshop (not including travel expenses) or over $1600 (again, excluding travel expenses) for a one-week retreat in residence.
Speaking personally, I guess I'm one of those metaphysically delusional types who'd really like to get past the cultural shorthand that goes into identifying people by what/who they choose to fuck, but I'm realistic enough to know that we as a species are dozens of generations away from achieving a blurry resemblance of it.
What Bob didn't mention is that Body Electric wasn't really the first group to do this kind of exploration, just the first one that was created for gay men. There were already groups doing this kind of work, but they were for straight people (HBO's Real Sex series featured one such group somewhat early on in the show's existence), so there was arguably a niche for gay men to make the same explorations in an environment that was at least nominally less exclusionary.
So yeah, I'm not so ready to deal with BE in terms of the two extremes of a sexual continuum, but in ways that are more germane to the institution itself, there are certainly other concerns.
49
I also appreciated your skeptical approach, Dan. When you asked if we could power our cars with the "energy", I totally cracked up. What the hell was that guy TALKING about?
50
I have attended a number of Body electric programs over the years and have given up trying to explain to skeptics that tantric processes are useful to anybody who wishes to get more in touch with their sexuality and to feel more at home in their bodies. It has very little to do with sexual orientation or gender issues. I am gay but have participated in workshops with straight men who were there for different reasons. One was a psychologist who had been abused as a teenager by a man and was still suffering shame. His wife encouraged him to come to learn to be more comfortable about his body. Yes, anal massage was involved and he participated and felt that it helped overcome the shame of his rape. I had dinner with him and his wife later and they both felt that it had been a positive experience. This man is definitely straight but was able to explore his shame in a positive way. Too few men whether staight or gay are prepared to deal with the issues surrounding tantric practices and yet it can be a very spiritually liberating process. I no longer try to defend it - it works for those who able to deal with the truth.
52
A few things:
1. The Body Electric guy Findle never mentioned anything about anal massage in the entire interview. That posters who "think" they heard that are saying something about their own desires and fears.
2. How can someone who has never taken a Body Electric course declare what the workshop involves, how the participants interact, who attends, and what they get? Kind of like doing a movie review without seeing the movie or judging someone's character before you meet them.
3. Lighten up - don't be so afraid of others learning to enjoy their bodies
Joe
1. The Body Electric guy Findle never mentioned anything about anal massage in the entire interview. That posters who "think" they heard that are saying something about their own desires and fears.
2. How can someone who has never taken a Body Electric course declare what the workshop involves, how the participants interact, who attends, and what they get? Kind of like doing a movie review without seeing the movie or judging someone's character before you meet them.
3. Lighten up - don't be so afraid of others learning to enjoy their bodies
Joe
53
A few thing:
1. The Body Electric guy Findle never mentioned anal massage even once in the interview. That posters "think" they heard that and have to comment says something about their fears and possibly desires.
2. How posters who have never been to a Body Electric workshop know anything about the experience, who attends, or what they get out of it? Kind of like reviewing a movie without seeing it or judging someone's character without ever meeting them.
3. Lighten up - why get so twisted when other people explore their erotic selves?
Joe
1. The Body Electric guy Findle never mentioned anal massage even once in the interview. That posters "think" they heard that and have to comment says something about their fears and possibly desires.
2. How posters who have never been to a Body Electric workshop know anything about the experience, who attends, or what they get out of it? Kind of like reviewing a movie without seeing it or judging someone's character without ever meeting them.
3. Lighten up - why get so twisted when other people explore their erotic selves?
Joe
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