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News & ArtsMonday, November 22, 2010
Religion New Jersey Pastor: Screw As I Say, Not As I Screw!
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 8:31 AM
Some portals to infidelity are more problematic than others:
A New Jersey pastor who banned church staff from using Facebook, claiming it leads to infideity, admitted to having group sex with his wife and another couple. Last week, Rev Cedric Miller told 50 church leaders at the Living Word Christian Fellowship church in Neptune, N.J., to delete their Facebook accounts or resign from their jobs. He called the social networking site a “portal to infidelity,” and said he'd seen many marriages fall apart after one partner rekindled romance with an ex on the site. Neptune's Asbury Park Press recently revealed that Miller admitted to having sex with his wife, a church assistant and the assistant's wife during a 2003 court testimony.
1
I guess you could trust this man as an expert on infidelity due to his first-hand experience; though I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it.
5
"...Miller admitted to having sex with his wife, a church assistant and the assistant's wife during a 2003 court testimony."
Awesome! They were able to have a group scene during testimony in court. Must have been a re-enactment, or a group deposition...
Awesome! They were able to have a group scene during testimony in court. Must have been a re-enactment, or a group deposition...
6
They were glorifying Christ by demonstrating their confidence that his holy Blood will "cover" _any_ sin they might commit. (In their theology, if I've got them pegged correctly*, they believe that Jesus' sacrifice does not forgive or eliminate sin, but covers it in God's estimation.)
*(Your joke goes in _here_. Ouch.)
*(Your joke goes in _here_. Ouch.)
7
Interesting. Hypocrite does mean actor.
I guess having teens and preteens in the house is why I miss out on all the infidelity stuff. But, I've seen plenty of the "You're not my friend so I'm deleting you" drama, that Facebook seems less and less a way to communicate and share pictures, etc., and more of a way to punish people for pissing you off. We do like a weapon we can use, just ask the Palin sisters.
I guess having teens and preteens in the house is why I miss out on all the infidelity stuff. But, I've seen plenty of the "You're not my friend so I'm deleting you" drama, that Facebook seems less and less a way to communicate and share pictures, etc., and more of a way to punish people for pissing you off. We do like a weapon we can use, just ask the Palin sisters.
8
How hypocritical is this, actually, though? If he and his wife were having group sex with another couple, presumably his wife knew about it. I mean, she was there.
He wasn't speaking out against Facebook because it leads to group sex, he was speaking out against Facebook because it (purportedly) leads to cheating.
He wasn't speaking out against Facebook because it leads to group sex, he was speaking out against Facebook because it (purportedly) leads to cheating.
10
Another two faced pastor. Big surprise. It turns out the real low lifes are the church leaders that are always telling others what to do. Why is anyone one stupid enough to llisten to these jerks? That's the real surprise. That people are so fucking dumb.
13
Wait... where is the infidelity by this guy? Sounds like all were in agreement including his wife... He is telling others not to cheat by rekindling old flames. He himself did not cheat.
this one doesn't seem to fit with the others, Dan.
this one doesn't seem to fit with the others, Dan.
14
Agree with 8, 9, 13. A pastor who is down with group sex is good in my book. A pastor who is against cheating is also good in my book. I don't see the contradiction.
16
8, 9, 13, 14: you're all confusing Dan's revised, restricted version of infidelity (it's only cheating if you're sneaking around) with the mainstream American version of infidelity (any erotic or even titillating act married people do with anyone other than their spouses counts as cheating). This man was trumpeting the mainstream definition of fidelity, to the extent of banning something that might, possibly, lead to hanky-panky eventually, while practising the easy-going Savage Love version of marital faith. As an ethical slut, I'd sign off on these swingin' Christians if the good Reverend was willing to grow a pair and say "I love my wife, and I'm quite fond of my assistant and his wife, too." However, the do-as-I-say, not-as-I-do hypocrisy of his craven apology sticks in my craw.
17
I agree that a good portion of us who read Savage Love are in the camp that infidelity = cheating and that consensual group sex is not infidelity. I think the reason that Dan could see this as hypocrisy is that the church website says:
We believe that all Scripture, both Old and New Testaments, was given by inspiration of God as the writers were moved by the Holy Spirit to write the very words of God and that the Scriptures are the only rule of faith and practice.
(2nd Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21)
and Matthew 5:27-28 does say that if you look at a woman lustfully you have committed adultery in your heart. Plus, Exodus 20:14, Deuteronomy 5:18, Proverbs 6:25, 2 Peter 2:14 are the verses used to interpret Matthew 5:27-28.
Maybe it is a limitation of Dan, and myself, that we look at our husbands with a hell of a lot of lust when we ravish them. Perhaps, the pastor and his wife are capable of having group sex without looking lustfully at the person they are having it with?
I think that the pastor and his wife decided after multiple play-dates with this couple, and learning that the assistant was getting some on the side within the church and apart from the group, plus a trip to court that they had made a mistake and they want to prevent it from happening to other couples in their church body. Perhaps, the pastor finds Facebook a temptation, and he is trying to save his flock from the very thing that he sees led him to his downfall? I wish him luck with dealing with his feelings of shame. And, I think that his making his staff delete their Facebook accounts or resign from their jobs is a little over the top. That is just my $0.02 and everyone is welcome to discard it.
We believe that all Scripture, both Old and New Testaments, was given by inspiration of God as the writers were moved by the Holy Spirit to write the very words of God and that the Scriptures are the only rule of faith and practice.
(2nd Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21)
and Matthew 5:27-28 does say that if you look at a woman lustfully you have committed adultery in your heart. Plus, Exodus 20:14, Deuteronomy 5:18, Proverbs 6:25, 2 Peter 2:14 are the verses used to interpret Matthew 5:27-28.
Maybe it is a limitation of Dan, and myself, that we look at our husbands with a hell of a lot of lust when we ravish them. Perhaps, the pastor and his wife are capable of having group sex without looking lustfully at the person they are having it with?
I think that the pastor and his wife decided after multiple play-dates with this couple, and learning that the assistant was getting some on the side within the church and apart from the group, plus a trip to court that they had made a mistake and they want to prevent it from happening to other couples in their church body. Perhaps, the pastor finds Facebook a temptation, and he is trying to save his flock from the very thing that he sees led him to his downfall? I wish him luck with dealing with his feelings of shame. And, I think that his making his staff delete their Facebook accounts or resign from their jobs is a little over the top. That is just my $0.02 and everyone is welcome to discard it.
19
Oh wow, this story just gets better and better. I read an article on the pastor banning Facebook accounts last week and thought it was one of the most ridiculous things I had ever heard. I mean, if your marriage is in danger just because you happen to run into an old flame on Facebook, how good could that marriage have been to begin with? And now, how the "temptation" of Facebook pales in comparison to the temptation that is right there in the church office with you every day. Though I wouldn't call it cheating since the wife was obviously okay with it, I don't think there's much support for swinging in the scriptures either, is there?
20
And then there's Pastor Jim Swilley...
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoft…
kim in portland, are you aware of this guy? It's an amazing story (no scandal!!), the guy's for real. This could be huge...
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoft…
kim in portland, are you aware of this guy? It's an amazing story (no scandal!!), the guy's for real. This could be huge...
22
the fact that the pastor had group sex does not negate the correctness of his observations about facebook
23
Every form of social contact is a potential portal to sexual contact. That's just a fact of life. Unless we want to make like the Taliban and jail women in the home, adultery will happen. Church leaders can disapprove of adultery and try to discourage it if they so choose, but discouraging social activity in general does way more harm than good. If you take this to its logical conclusion, you'd have to ban people from going to church, because you might commit adultery with someone you meet there - and indeed, many people have!
24
Dude wait, you mean I can have group sex, blame it on facebook and the bitch is gonna buy it? "Honey you understand, I was helpless, I looked at the picture of their faces on a computer screen and just had to have sex, oh my gawd this internet thing is totally out of control!". Somebody lock up the internet, before it forces another white privileged male into forced gang sex. Won't somebody please think of the chil...wait...don't.
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