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News & ArtsFriday, October 22, 2010
News Win-Win
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:01 PM
I don't have to listen to Juan Williams on the radio anymore, and Juan gets $2,000,000 to provide a little butt cover for the crazy racists at Fox and in the GOP. He and Michael Steele should start a support group.
And for what it's worth: I know where Juan is coming from. Every time I see a guy who looks like this getting on an airplane, man, do I get nervous. It's the orange v-neck that unnerves me, of course, not the color of the man's skin.
3
Danny is a great barometer for what
Real Heartland America is thinking,
just take the opposite of what Danny likes....
This was a brilliant and class move by Fox.
and they will continue to rule.
Real Heartland America is thinking,
just take the opposite of what Danny likes....
This was a brilliant and class move by Fox.
and they will continue to rule.
5
Wow, for someone with the sensitivity to start the "It gets better project" you have the appalling insensitivity to label a polical party and a news network as racist.
6
raindrop, he didn't label everyone at FOX or in the Republican Party a crazy racist, just said there were crazy racists associated with both. Which is true - check out that Angle chick in Arizona...
7
How fucked is it that Fox can publicly be proud to be the home for Islamaphobia? Oh wait, that's normal now. Sorry Sanchez, ya shoulda picked on the Muslims.
8
@6, don't mind our raindrop, he's just taking a break from his Maple Valley doorbelling for Dino Rossi.
13
Just exactly who the hell thought it was a good idea that the most nutso, libtarded network in the country should be funded with taxpayer money, anyway? Look for that to change.
15
Nope. Just a guy wondering why, when 20% of the people self-identify as "liberal," 100% of the population is stuck paying for that drivel.
16
I'm disappointed that NPR fired a guy over an out of context sound bite. I thought they were better than that.
17
The man was honest, and he got fired for it. Are his views PC? No. But was he spewing hate? No.
NPR took it in the mouth this time.
NPR took it in the mouth this time.
18
@13: You calling NPR "the most nutso, libtarded network in the country" is quite funny. Thanks for the laughs.
19
Good riddance. I live in Austin, about a mile and a half or so from where the decidedly non-Muslim Joe Stack sent his plane into an office building because he felt the IRS was persecuting. I drive by this building more or less every day, because it's on the route where I get my groceries and where I get my son from his babysitters.
It's the angry anti-government nuts--the audience being pandered to by Fox News--that scare the hell out of me. I'd fly with a plane-load of imams before I'd go to one of their rallies, with talk of revolution and "Second Amendment remedies."
It's the angry anti-government nuts--the audience being pandered to by Fox News--that scare the hell out of me. I'd fly with a plane-load of imams before I'd go to one of their rallies, with talk of revolution and "Second Amendment remedies."
20
Liberals wanna get rid of prejudices, when prejudices are natural and required for our survival. Over the past 600 or so years the Christians gave us Western civilization, the Jews have been highly involved in some of the worlds greatest countries, but what have the Muslims done in that time? Sorry, not a fan of seeing Muslims anywhere, and I'm not s fan of my taxpayer dollars funding pinko commie trite like NPR.
21
@15, what kinda time warp you livin' in? NPR gets zero direct federal funding. Indirectly, CPB kicks in enough to cover 3% maybe. The Reagan hysteria saw to that, but just like Maggie Thatcher's gang continually hounding the BBC I'm guessing you'll never shut up about it.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2010…
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2010…
23
How would Juan respond if he were told that when he stepped on an elevator with some sheltered suburban soccer mom she became nervous or agitated, simply because he was black?
24
You can't report facts without coming off as Liberal. It's impossible. The right wing in this country has a ideology based entirely in fiction. From economics to gay marriage to infrastructure. The right wing is not some alternate equal to progressivism.
25
And I'm wondering why 11% of the population gets 41% of the vote in the Senate, and I and my fellow 600,000 DC residents get none (yep, still bigger than the population of Wyoming), 5280. Are we still funding that abstinence-only education stuff? ("According to the results of a 2005–2006 nationally representative survey of U.S. adults, published in the Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, there is far greater support for comprehensive sex education than for the abstinence-only approach, regardless of respondents’ political leanings and frequency of attendance at religious services. Overall, 82% of those polled supported a comprehensive approach, and 68% favored instruction on how to use a condom; only 36% supported abstinence-only education." http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/gpr/12/1/…) And are we still funding that war? (http://www.pollingreport.com/afghan.htm)
28
25
according to the cdc abstinence (followed by monogamy once in a longterm relationship) is the best way to avoid STDs.
are you going to follow the science or the polls?
don't you give a shit about the children, you fucking cuntface?
(ps when we want a Senate vote out of DC will beat it out of you. til then shut the fuck up)
are you equally impressed by the 82% majority in Mississippi that outlawed homosexual marriage?
jackass.
according to the cdc abstinence (followed by monogamy once in a longterm relationship) is the best way to avoid STDs.
are you going to follow the science or the polls?
don't you give a shit about the children, you fucking cuntface?
(ps when we want a Senate vote out of DC will beat it out of you. til then shut the fuck up)
are you equally impressed by the 82% majority in Mississippi that outlawed homosexual marriage?
jackass.
29
Firing him was an overreaction - especially considering he was on the show to explain to O'Reilly that he was wrong to say what he said on The View.
Williams, in the same interview: "Wait a second though, wait, hold on, because if you said Timothy McVeigh, the Atlanta bomber, these people who are protesting against homosexuality at military funerals, very obnoxious, you don't say first and foremost, we got a problem with Christians. That's crazy."
I mean, Muslims on planes don't make me nervous, but it's more about the odds of one actually targeting the flight I'm on. I don't fear a plane crash for the same reason. Still, it would be pretty dishonest to say, when a guy in a turban sits next to you on a plane, that the thought doesn't even cross your mind.
Williams, in the same interview: "Wait a second though, wait, hold on, because if you said Timothy McVeigh, the Atlanta bomber, these people who are protesting against homosexuality at military funerals, very obnoxious, you don't say first and foremost, we got a problem with Christians. That's crazy."
I mean, Muslims on planes don't make me nervous, but it's more about the odds of one actually targeting the flight I'm on. I don't fear a plane crash for the same reason. Still, it would be pretty dishonest to say, when a guy in a turban sits next to you on a plane, that the thought doesn't even cross your mind.
30
@28: "abstinence-ONLY" (caps mine).
It's far more effective to encourage abstinence but to still teach teens how to use a rubber, than to just tell them not to fuck.
It's far more effective to encourage abstinence but to still teach teens how to use a rubber, than to just tell them not to fuck.
31
@ 28,
You think the next time you want to type "fucking cuntface" or "will beat it out of you. til then shut the fuck up" you could read it aloud to yourself first? Would you like that said to you? Your mother? Your sister? Your daughter? Your abusive choice of words diminished your point. And, they make sound like a misogynist.
You think the next time you want to type "fucking cuntface" or "will beat it out of you. til then shut the fuck up" you could read it aloud to yourself first? Would you like that said to you? Your mother? Your sister? Your daughter? Your abusive choice of words diminished your point. And, they make sound like a misogynist.
32
I remember that brief, shining moment when the context of a remark was important, when it was bad to throw someone under the bus for saying they have held an intolerant opinion, when it was just political sniping to attack someone for a soundbite. Those were good times.
33
@29: No, it's perfectly honest for me to say that the thought doesn't cross my mind when I see somebody who looks Muslim on a plane. It would be dishonest for you to say it, apparently because you're prejudiced.
My first thought in such a situation is, "Uh-oh, somebody [e.g., you] is going to start clutching their pearls when they see this guy. How sad a world we live in."
@32: The context was perfectly clear. In the context of trying to sound like a reasonable human being, Williams let the truth (that he has an irrational fear of Muslims) slip. For that he was very rightfully fired. I for one still expect journalists to maintain at least the appearance of objectivity. Once you've lost your claim to objectivity, you're just another asshole with an opinion.
My first thought in such a situation is, "Uh-oh, somebody [e.g., you] is going to start clutching their pearls when they see this guy. How sad a world we live in."
@32: The context was perfectly clear. In the context of trying to sound like a reasonable human being, Williams let the truth (that he has an irrational fear of Muslims) slip. For that he was very rightfully fired. I for one still expect journalists to maintain at least the appearance of objectivity. Once you've lost your claim to objectivity, you're just another asshole with an opinion.
34
22, that explains pretty much all of Islam up until 600 years ago, when I had asked- what they had done in the previous 600 years. Catholicism destroyed Islam at that time and they've never recovered.
35
I think it depends on where you fly, but I doubt that's what he means. Cause while Timmy there wouldn't make too many people nervous in the states, if he traveled to Saudi Arabia you think they'd get a little nervous on the idea that he sticks out like a sore thumb? I'm guilty of it too, I see girls with the headscarf thing and I can't help but want to scream at them for how unbelievably gullible they are for thinking (and of course, I don't even really know if they think...) that god will punish them if men for whom they aren't eternally fucking look at their skin/hair. Of course, not only is that the last thing I'd say on tv or radio, but I know my irrational fear is about them looking different. It's the same when an old person sees a kid with blue hair and assumes the worst, and when we stop spreading this false notion that anyone who looks at the Koran wants to blow us up we'll all be much calmer people. Remember after the H1N1 'scare' when someone sneezed in a plane and it almost crashed because everyone got so nervous. The scare did way more damage than the flu, and there's a definite case for the scare making things worse.
36
Man, I got into a debate with one of our (WAY out there classical-Libertarian) professors about Juan's comments. He was claiming that they weren't bigoted because everyone exhibits bigoted behavior to a certain degree (group bias, fear of the Other). I was claiming that the fact that everyone (and particularly everyone like him: White, male, heterogendered, heterosexual, wealthy) exhibits bigotry to varying degrees doesn't make it not bigotry, it makes it institutionalized and therefore racism. He then moved on to say that if we look at the context, it was actually a valuable comment, because we need to bring things like bigotry and racism into the open where we can discuss them. I agree that we need to do so, but in a way and context that doesn't normalize and therefore excuse and reinforce bigotry (particularly that which operates along institutional racist vectors) as acceptable or unproblematic, which WAS the context of his comments. It was basically (this is a paraphrase, obviously, not a direct quote): "I'm a Black man who has written about Civil Rights, so I know bigotry. You're not a bigot Bill, because Muslims irrationally frighten me too, and I can't possibly be a bigot, because I'm a Black man who has written about Civil Rights. What you said was fine, although you should try not to say it in such a way the universalizes the actions of extremists to all Muslims, even though I subconsciously do the same thing, and my statements in the last sentence normalize that behavior [ed: this last part wasn't directly stated, just an unavoidable implication of his statements]."
I don't think NPR should have fired him; I think they should have required him to explicitly state his bias at the start and end of his reports: "I'm Juan Williams, and I have an irrational fear of Muslims." Humiliating, and FAR more effective as a statement against bigotry - as shame is essentially the only weapon we have against thoughtcrime that isn't entirely problematic.
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I don't think NPR should have fired him; I think they should have required him to explicitly state his bias at the start and end of his reports: "I'm Juan Williams, and I have an irrational fear of Muslims." Humiliating, and FAR more effective as a statement against bigotry - as shame is essentially the only weapon we have against thoughtcrime that isn't entirely problematic.
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