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News & ArtsTuesday, October 12, 2010
Homo Who You Gonna Believe?
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 2:24 PM
Tony Perkins? Or your own lying, blackened eyes?
Where bullying has occurred, the blame should be placed on the bullies themselves—not on organizations within society who clearly oppose bullying. I suspect that few, if any, such bullies are people who regularly attend church, and I would not be surprised if most of the "bullies" did not have the positive benefit of both an active mom and dad in their lives.
Where bullying has occurred—nice formulation there, Tone, as it strongly implies that bullying may not have actually occurred in some of the places where it has been reported—Tony suspects that "few, if any, such bullies" regularly attended church.
Oh. My. Fucking. God.
I went to two Catholic grade schools and two Catholic high schools. And I—like so many others—was regularly bullied by kids who attended church. I was in church. I'm not talking about being bullied from the pulpit by hateful preachers. I'm talking about being verbally and sometimes physically attacked by my church-going classmates—some of them with a mom and a dad in the home—in church, during services, regularly. My husband was assaulted for years by church-going Jesus freaks in the private evangelical schools his parents sent him to.
As for the other lies in Tony's op-ed—and they are Legion-of-Christ—Jim over at Box Turtle Bulletin does an excellent job of tearing them apart.
As for Christian organizations, they do not "clearly oppose" bullying. They oppose anti-bullying programs that address anti-gay bullying. Once again, this Minnesota Independent piece about the efforts—so far successful—of "Christian" parents to block an anti-bullying program in a school district that has seen five bulllying-related suicides (including that of Justin Aaberg) is required reading.
1
OK, that tears it. I AM gonna make a video for the IGPB. Even if not too many ppl watch it, if it saves one schoolkid from feeling the way..well, bullies make you feel, which is ALONE, it's worth it. The bullies were in my "nice" Catholic middle & high schools.
As you point out, Dan, those protestations about the organizations that clearly opposed bullying would be a lot more believable if any of them DID.
This is right up there w/ how everyone keeps insisting that Molly Wei & Dharum Ravi are "basically good kids". Off-topic, but I adore this rebuttal:
http://kateharding.info/2010/10/06/on-go…
As you point out, Dan, those protestations about the organizations that clearly opposed bullying would be a lot more believable if any of them DID.
This is right up there w/ how everyone keeps insisting that Molly Wei & Dharum Ravi are "basically good kids". Off-topic, but I adore this rebuttal:
http://kateharding.info/2010/10/06/on-go…
2
Christian fundamentalists have also historically been at the forefront of trying to block stricter child abuse laws. There is clearly a type of Christian who believes that positive Christian Values can be beaten into children, and that the state shouldn't interfere with the process.
5
The Christian religion, and this cannot be denied, has always engaged in torture and murder of people they demanded must conform. They are doing it again and expect us to believe they bear no responsiblity. Tony Perkins clearly has Torquemada syndrome. It's a self hating problem.
6
As a side-point; Dan, does someone vet the IGBP videos to make sure that fundamentalists (or douchebags trying to be funny) don't upload an anti-gay video and falsely tag it?
7
You know, it wasn't gay bashing, but I left Catholic school after second grade because I was going home from with black eyes and my fingers in splints. Just because I was a girl. Public school was a blessing.
9
Yeah, I was bullied like mad in Catholic school, though not because they thought I was lesbian (that didn't come until public high school), but just because I didn't fit it - I was smart, quiet, and respectful, so naturally I was a kissup. Those kids were all in church with their parents every Sunday. That was most of my class, except for the small group of other people who didn't fit.
And really, despite being bullied by one particular group, public school was a blessing for me, too. The group that bullied me were misfits themselves, who used a kid who was insecure about his own sexuality (he's happily out and has a nice partner now) to sexually harrass me - until I lost it one day when I was sick and tired and fought back. But those folks were all church goers with their parents, too.
Tony Perkins is full of crap. When I see a commercial for something he supports down here (Louisiana), I write a letter to the TV station that airs it chiding them for accepting money from a bigot. I think I'll add this little bit to my letters from now on. Won't do any good - money is money to these stations - but I'll feel better.
And really, despite being bullied by one particular group, public school was a blessing for me, too. The group that bullied me were misfits themselves, who used a kid who was insecure about his own sexuality (he's happily out and has a nice partner now) to sexually harrass me - until I lost it one day when I was sick and tired and fought back. But those folks were all church goers with their parents, too.
Tony Perkins is full of crap. When I see a commercial for something he supports down here (Louisiana), I write a letter to the TV station that airs it chiding them for accepting money from a bigot. I think I'll add this little bit to my letters from now on. Won't do any good - money is money to these stations - but I'll feel better.
10
Dan is handicapped because he was raised Catholic and he thinks he has insights into Christianity but all he knows is Catholicism.
11
The best line anyone ever delivered to Tony Perkins was when David Boies told him live on national television that a witness stand is a lonely place to lie. What a miserable, wretched coward. And shame on the Washington Post for giving this bigot a platform.
12
The church I grew up in and still attend has never had a fire and brimstone atmosphere, otherwise I'd have never kept up. However, the kids in the "youth group" were no less a bunch of fucking assholes than those in public schools.
13
I got pretty badly bullied at a liberal Hebrew school and at Jewish summer camp (where we had religious services, like, twice a day), just for being a late-developing dork.
14
I have to say, as someone who has both been bullied and a bully, it happens anywhere, any time and any place. Bullying knows no age, color, creed, or class. It happens amongst children, it happens amongst adults. And I believe many of us fill both roles at one point or another in their life.
Although it is clearly a social tool to help manage local members of our tribe, bullying is not something that people deserve or ask for. "Oh well" is NOT an answer. It's time for people to stop saying "Get over it" and start acknowledging that it is time to do something about it, starting with ourselves.
Although it is clearly a social tool to help manage local members of our tribe, bullying is not something that people deserve or ask for. "Oh well" is NOT an answer. It's time for people to stop saying "Get over it" and start acknowledging that it is time to do something about it, starting with ourselves.
15
Is there an email address for that idiot who interviewed with the Post? I was bullied and teased for years in school. No physical violence for the most part but still and I KNOW some of the worst of them went to church. I'd like to give this guy a LARGE piece of my mind on what bullshit he's spouting.
16
Ditto what @4 said. It would be great to hear you say "my husband" every time you're on TV or the radio. Every time the haters hear it, maybe one of their kids is absorbing it too, with different results.
And things are changing. My son and I were walking past a TD bank the other day, and they had those huge posters showing beautiful families and saying "get your mortgage here," and one of the posters was of two men, sitting on the same beach chair, with "their" lovely house behind them. You wouldn't have seen that 5 years ago, even in Canada.
And things are changing. My son and I were walking past a TD bank the other day, and they had those huge posters showing beautiful families and saying "get your mortgage here," and one of the posters was of two men, sitting on the same beach chair, with "their" lovely house behind them. You wouldn't have seen that 5 years ago, even in Canada.
17
I don't know who Tony Perkins is, so maybe you have cause to assume he's writing in bad faith, but another, more charitable explanation of his remarks is that he simply can't believe children raised in church would behave in such a deplorable manner. Apparently he'd be wrong, but that wouldn't make him a liar, just someone who believed in the positive power of his church to change lives.
18
Ahem. Just scrolled down a bit, saw the Tony Perkins op-ed, then clicked through to his organization. Re: 17, nevermind. Also, fuck that guy.
19
This guy is full of shit, I went to Catholic grade school and was bullied by two girls, one whose parents were loaded and another who was a broke fuck. Both girls had both parents at home. And I was both verbally and physically attacked. In the school and in the church that we attended every Monday.
Yet another stupid fucker who doesn't know what he's talking about.
Yet another stupid fucker who doesn't know what he's talking about.
20
I'm not surprised at all. When catholics say that Catholicism is the only true religion, what do you think they are promoting? The word begins with an "I" and ends with an "E". That's what those bullies learn when they go to church.
21
I was never bullied in school. Somehow, my school was just not unpleasant for me. I was short, skinny and semi-autistic, but I never got pestered by anyone.
One year, a Baptist friend invited me to a summer camp. My mother, despite her non-theism, always let her children go off to any religious events they wished to.
The children there were curious about me. They quickly knew I was not a Christian.
"So what are you, a Jew?"
"Uh, no"
"Well then what are you?"
"Um, nothing? I'm just a human."
They dragged me, in my sleeping bag, into the middle of the wet field near our tents and sprayed shaving cream in my face.
They were easily the crudest, cruelest people I'd ever met.
One year, a Baptist friend invited me to a summer camp. My mother, despite her non-theism, always let her children go off to any religious events they wished to.
The children there were curious about me. They quickly knew I was not a Christian.
"So what are you, a Jew?"
"Uh, no"
"Well then what are you?"
"Um, nothing? I'm just a human."
They dragged me, in my sleeping bag, into the middle of the wet field near our tents and sprayed shaving cream in my face.
They were easily the crudest, cruelest people I'd ever met.
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