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News & ArtsThursday, September 30, 2010
Homo Why Are So Many Gay Kids Killing Themselves?
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 10:05 AM
Maybe it has something to do with shit like this:
La Crosse police are investigating accusations the reigning Riverfest commodore shoved a 14-year-old girl carrying a gay pride flag just before Saturday’s Maple Leaf parade. The teen was rollerblading and carrying a flag pole with two rainbow flags—one a hybrid of the American flag and the gay pride flag—as members of 7 Rivers LGBT Resource Center’s float prepared for the parade about 9:45 a.m. Saturday on Rose Street, said Roseanne St. Sauver, the center’s executive director.Commodore Mark Schneider, who was on a float nearby, approached the girl and put his hands on the flagpole, St. Sauver said. St. Sauver walked over, placed her hands on the pole and told him, “Please stop, she’s a 14-year-old child." “He said, ‘I do not care. Look what you are teaching them,’” St. Sauver said.
That’s when, St. Sauver said, Schneider shoved the girl with his body. St. Sauver said Schneider told the girl: “Go to a country where they will hang people like you.“The incident left the teen crying, and others upset, St. Sauver said. This is the first year the center has participated in the parade.
You know the drill:
Riverfest Inc.
(608) 782-6000
info@riverfestlacrosse.com
Here's the commodore:
2
Heartbreaking. I know the area well, and Wisconsinites are better than this dickcheese. Called and left a message with the answering service, who said they would email my complaint to Riverfest. So, I recommend emailing directly.
3
"Go to a country where the will hang people like you" is a "polite" way of saying "you're lucky I don't kill you right here."
4
Takes a big man to shove a 14 year old girl. If there is any justice in the world, this event will stress him to the point of a heart attack...Come on massive heart attack!
7
What I wrote to riverfest:
Commodore Schneider is certainly welcome to any opinion of his own. He is certainly welcome to disdain both gays and the cause of gay rights. But a mature man of a certain age and stature—both social and physical—should be above shoving a fourteen year-old girl and knocking her to the sidewalk for the crime of merely expressing an opinion that differs from his own. I was horrified when I read the following:
Commodore Mark Schneider, who was on a float nearby, approached the girl and put his hands on the flagpole, St. Sauver said. St. Sauver walked over, placed her hands on the pole and told him, “Please stop, she’s a 14-year-old child." “He said, ‘I do not care. Look what you are teaching them,’” St. Sauver said.
That’s when, St. Sauver said, Schneider shoved the girl with his body. St. Sauver said Schneider told the girl: “Go to a country where they will hang people like you.“
Commodore Schneider is single-handedly responsible for bringing disgrace upon the Riverfest. Your organization should immediately issue a statement excoriating his actions.
Commodore Schneider is certainly welcome to any opinion of his own. He is certainly welcome to disdain both gays and the cause of gay rights. But a mature man of a certain age and stature—both social and physical—should be above shoving a fourteen year-old girl and knocking her to the sidewalk for the crime of merely expressing an opinion that differs from his own. I was horrified when I read the following:
Commodore Mark Schneider, who was on a float nearby, approached the girl and put his hands on the flagpole, St. Sauver said. St. Sauver walked over, placed her hands on the pole and told him, “Please stop, she’s a 14-year-old child." “He said, ‘I do not care. Look what you are teaching them,’” St. Sauver said.
That’s when, St. Sauver said, Schneider shoved the girl with his body. St. Sauver said Schneider told the girl: “Go to a country where they will hang people like you.“
Commodore Schneider is single-handedly responsible for bringing disgrace upon the Riverfest. Your organization should immediately issue a statement excoriating his actions.
9
He shoved?
Where is the assault charge? All sorts of situations police encounter where simple shoves become assault charges and this should be one.
Where is the assault charge? All sorts of situations police encounter where simple shoves become assault charges and this should be one.
10
Apparently they think this is resolved now?
http://www.wxow.com/Global/story.asp?S=1…
He claims he got upset because it was an insult to veterans. I'm sorry, when does getting upset by veterans justify threatening a 14 year old girl?
http://www.wxow.com/Global/story.asp?S=1…
He claims he got upset because it was an insult to veterans. I'm sorry, when does getting upset by veterans justify threatening a 14 year old girl?
12
Old Bigots. Honestly this guy is probably like my Dad. I can see him boiling over and loosing it when his 19th century white Amerika world view is challenged. Control yourself grandpa.
13
<“It all had to do with the discoloring of the American flag,” Schneider said. “Other commodores on the commodore float were upset because the flag is offensive to veterans ... This is not an issue of gays. This is an issue with the American flag.”>
This seems like a pathetic backpedaling attempt to cover his ass. I suppose it's possible that there are purists out there who find any alteration of the flag in any way to be wrong, but this would seem to be zealotry in the same vein as putting someone to death for an image of Mohammed.
What does this guy think of people wearing stars and stripes patterned clothing? It's an alteration or bastardization of the actual American flag, is that wrong?
This seems like a pathetic backpedaling attempt to cover his ass. I suppose it's possible that there are purists out there who find any alteration of the flag in any way to be wrong, but this would seem to be zealotry in the same vein as putting someone to death for an image of Mohammed.
What does this guy think of people wearing stars and stripes patterned clothing? It's an alteration or bastardization of the actual American flag, is that wrong?
14
You know what's really an insult to veterans? Dickheads like this guy hiding behind them in an attempt to justify assaulting a 14-year-old girl. That doesn't seem very veteran-ish to me.
Mr. Schneider: just because they gave you the hat, you're still NOT A REAL COMMODORE.
Mr. Schneider: just because they gave you the hat, you're still NOT A REAL COMMODORE.
15
Jesus fucking christ. Between this and Andrew Shirvell(I'm on my phone, or I would link, but search this fucking guy), my faith in humanity is seriously fucking shaken. I mean, I know kids are bullying kids, and it's obviously horrible and inexcusable, but they're fucking children. I've been thinking that these asshole kids will at least have to live their adult lives with the guilt of what they have done, but maybe I'm wrong.
16
I don't get it. If he's so pissed about how things work in America (i.e. that they don't hang gays for being gay), shouldn't HE go to a country that hangs gays? I mean, honestly. You don't like it here, go back to Gay-Hanging-Land, right? Isn't that what people are always screaming?
18
He tells her "Go to a country where they hang people like you."
Well, that would be rather foolish advice. She lives in a country where they don't...because this country tries to be more civilized and smart about things like that.
The better advice would be for the Commodore to move to a place where they hang people like that--as he clearly doesn't share the values of THIS country that doesn't...
One would think that his years of life on this planet would given him the experience to offer better advice.
...or a soul.
Well, that would be rather foolish advice. She lives in a country where they don't...because this country tries to be more civilized and smart about things like that.
The better advice would be for the Commodore to move to a place where they hang people like that--as he clearly doesn't share the values of THIS country that doesn't...
One would think that his years of life on this planet would given him the experience to offer better advice.
...or a soul.
19
@13: I hate bullshit like that. In the end, no matter what, a flag is a piece of cloth. I mean, I try to respect other people when it comes to things they rever, and I completely understand the potent power they can hold over people's emotions. Most of the time, it's what the flag represents, not the flag itself. Cool.
But in the end, it is still the FLAG being treated here, not the things it represents. And if you think you can justify *assaulting* another person over her treatment of an INANIMATE OBJECT, no matter how much symbolic power it's been endowed with, then your priorities are messed up.
But in the end, it is still the FLAG being treated here, not the things it represents. And if you think you can justify *assaulting* another person over her treatment of an INANIMATE OBJECT, no matter how much symbolic power it's been endowed with, then your priorities are messed up.
21
What a nasty cunt he is. Booooooooooo, Mark Schneider. Oh, and do us all a favor and fuck off and die.
22
That man is no commodore. If he were a commodore he would have epaulets and Lionel Richie lurking about.
23
I only wish my veteran husband, father and father-in-law had been there when this happened.
Not only are there gay veterans, there are straight veterans who support gay rights. Lastly, I wager that the vast majority of veterans would be angry that a 14 year old was assaulted in their name.
Not only are there gay veterans, there are straight veterans who support gay rights. Lastly, I wager that the vast majority of veterans would be angry that a 14 year old was assaulted in their name.
24
Reports are that he has apologized, according to a joint statement by him and the local GLBT organization:
http://lacrossetribune.com/news/local/ar…
I still would like to hear his explanation of why the flag was a "disgrace to veterans". I think that title should go to grown men who physically assault 14 year old girls.
http://lacrossetribune.com/news/local/ar…
I still would like to hear his explanation of why the flag was a "disgrace to veterans". I think that title should go to grown men who physically assault 14 year old girls.
25
Can't see why nobody shoved back. I mean a grown man shoving a 14 year old is beyond the pale. People just watched this happen?
26
@8, @9, agreed. Where's the fucking assault and battery charge? There were witnesses, it was a public event. You can spew any hate you want, it's a free country, but when it gets physical the cuffs should go on.
27
This is America, you old fat fuck. If I want to carry a flag that says "OLD WHITE COMMODORES CAN EAT A BOWL OF DICKS" that's my right. And I guaran-fuckin'-tee you, if you shove me that'll be the last thing you ever do. Unlike 14 y.o. girls, nemo me impune lacessit.
29
All this talk of respect for the flag reminded me of this:
http://www.studio360.org/episodes/2009/0…
Studio 360 and Isaac Mizrahi's choice for a new gay pride flag. At the time I thought the one he picked lacked punch, especially since it would, hopefully, eventually be filled in. On this particular occasion, though, it seems pretty poignant, especially given the absence of Wisconsin from the design.
http://www.studio360.org/episodes/2009/0…
Studio 360 and Isaac Mizrahi's choice for a new gay pride flag. At the time I thought the one he picked lacked punch, especially since it would, hopefully, eventually be filled in. On this particular occasion, though, it seems pretty poignant, especially given the absence of Wisconsin from the design.
30
Thing is, how many people actually write? If this were a dittohead chain email, the target would be getting thousands and thousands of emails, full of bile. This guy will probably get ten sternly worded emails that will be instantly suspicious to him because of their impeccable orthography and capitalization.
31
Like the Tea Party, they're all ramping up the hate and violence because the writing is on the wall of things falling apart for them. The South turned into a total shit storm of violence right before civil rights law passed, too, remember?
33
My letter sent via email to Riverfest:
To Whom It May Concern,
When a grown adult make body slams a 14 year old child and tells her to "go to a country where they will hang people like you", a definite line has been crossed. Schneider appears to be an unstable, dangerous sub-human and needs to be removed from any position of influence. He LITERALLY told a little girl that she deserves to be executed. This is a horrible stain on the event known as "Riverfest" and will be forever tainted unless appropriate action is taken.
This is beyond outrageous - it's criminal and needs to be dealt with as such ASAP.
Sincerely,
Tre Gibbs
To Whom It May Concern,
When a grown adult make body slams a 14 year old child and tells her to "go to a country where they will hang people like you", a definite line has been crossed. Schneider appears to be an unstable, dangerous sub-human and needs to be removed from any position of influence. He LITERALLY told a little girl that she deserves to be executed. This is a horrible stain on the event known as "Riverfest" and will be forever tainted unless appropriate action is taken.
This is beyond outrageous - it's criminal and needs to be dealt with as such ASAP.
Sincerely,
Tre Gibbs
35
I am sick to death of douches who use veterans to justify ANYTHING they do. Oh, and don't you dare ever criticize the military or any individual person who served in the military (no matter how dishonorably). That offends The Veterans' delicate, pweshus sensibilities.
36
letters@lacrossetribune.com Here is a link to send a letter to the editor of the local paper that carried the story.
It is shameful bullying and he tries to cover his bigotry by claiming patriotism, since she had "discolered" the flag. People alter flags in many ways, with slogans or symbols or use the stars and stripes for hats and shirts and pants. I don't see him knocking down some guy wearing Flag pants at a Tea Party rally for getting crotch sweat on the flag.
It is shameful bullying and he tries to cover his bigotry by claiming patriotism, since she had "discolered" the flag. People alter flags in many ways, with slogans or symbols or use the stars and stripes for hats and shirts and pants. I don't see him knocking down some guy wearing Flag pants at a Tea Party rally for getting crotch sweat on the flag.
37
This is the website for the company he founded and now run by someone of the same name. Their motto is: "Your comfort is our business"
http://www.schneiderheating.com/
http://www.schneiderheating.com/
38
@37: Thanks. I was appalled to learn via Dan's video that the asshole also used to head up the LaCrosse footwear co. Their Pac boots get me through these slushy midwestern winters. Guess I'll have to rainbow-flag mine up (mixing in the stars'n'stripes, natch) and mail them to him.
39
@24 - I'm curious as to whether he ever admitted to having shoved the girl (which he initially denied) or whether, conversely, the shove had been dropped as an issue. I'm glad they reached a mutual solution, but something still rings false.
@25 - I agree. To paraphrase John Travolta in Pulp Fiction, I wish I could've been there to catch him doing it; it would have been worth his doing it to have been there when he did.
@25 - I agree. To paraphrase John Travolta in Pulp Fiction, I wish I could've been there to catch him doing it; it would have been worth his doing it to have been there when he did.
40
Dan is totally right.
It is a wonder this girl hasn't killed herself.
She'll probably get around to it any day now.
And it will be the Christians' fault, for sure.
It is a wonder this girl hasn't killed herself.
She'll probably get around to it any day now.
And it will be the Christians' fault, for sure.
41
In fact, now that this HORRIBLE incident is all over the nets probably 500 or 600 gay kids will commit suicide.
43
@40 & 41: It occurred to me (not for the first time), while reading your posts, that the headline WAS a little hyperbolic. Then again, given the choice between Dan's dramatic hyperbole and your smug, churlish dismissal, I'll take the former any day.
46
43
of course,
we have to admit that Dan knows
his credulous fanboy base-
3 dozen idiots lapping this shit up and begging for more.....
of course,
we have to admit that Dan knows
his credulous fanboy base-
3 dozen idiots lapping this shit up and begging for more.....
48
just a friendly reminder, wishing death upon someone else is exactly what uh we are trying to move past. i recommend him a long slow slide into senility, confusion and irrelevance. though they still vote.
49
Making a 14-year-old girl cry. Yeah, those are the kinds of family values we need to preserve.
Mean old bastard.
Mean old bastard.
50
At first I was completely flummoxed. Then it occurred to me: this guy has literally been convinced that people who are different from him are in a giant conspiracy to destroy everything he holds dear. People like teh gays, even little 14-yr old girls. And probably our black President, too. Nice work, FOX News.
51
We need to add something to "the drill": Let's all write letters to reassure the poor girl, care of the 7 Rivers LGBT Resource Center! I think this is at least as important as shaming the old fool.
55
+1 to what #8 and #9 said. Cut and dried case of Assault and Battery. Hey, parents of the girl, step up and do your job. Press charges NOW.
56
Next step is to get that flagpole carried by a black belt. The next shit-for-brains who tries to lay hands on it or its carrier gets it broken over their skull.
58
Someone should go to his house and hang a bunch of gay-pride flags.
And okay, even if he was mad about her discoloring the flag (although she OBVIOUSLY was not the one who did it herself), saying "You should go to a country where they hang people like you." doesn't remotely fit in to his argument. That explicitly implies that they should hang gays, not people who offend the flag. If that's what he was going for then he would have said something more along the lines of "You should go to a country where they hang you for SOMETHING LIKE THIS.". That would make it known that he was offended by the flag. But because of his phrasing his problem was obviously with her sexuality. Or even possibly the fact that the flag was being used to represent homosexuality. It was most certainly not an issue with JUST the flag.
And okay, even if he was mad about her discoloring the flag (although she OBVIOUSLY was not the one who did it herself), saying "You should go to a country where they hang people like you." doesn't remotely fit in to his argument. That explicitly implies that they should hang gays, not people who offend the flag. If that's what he was going for then he would have said something more along the lines of "You should go to a country where they hang you for SOMETHING LIKE THIS.". That would make it known that he was offended by the flag. But because of his phrasing his problem was obviously with her sexuality. Or even possibly the fact that the flag was being used to represent homosexuality. It was most certainly not an issue with JUST the flag.
59
Someone should go to his house and hang a bunch of gay-pride flags.
And okay, even if he was mad about her discoloring the flag (although she OBVIOUSLY was not the one who did it herself), saying "You should go to a country where they hang people like you." doesn't remotely fit in to his argument. That explicitly implies that they should hang gays, not people who offend the flag. If that's what he was going for then he would have said something more along the lines of "You should go to a country where they hang you for SOMETHING LIKE THIS.". That would make it known that he was offended by the flag. But because of his phrasing his problem was obviously with her sexuality. Or even possibly the fact that the flag was being used to represent homosexuality. It was most certainly not an issue with JUST the flag.
And okay, even if he was mad about her discoloring the flag (although she OBVIOUSLY was not the one who did it herself), saying "You should go to a country where they hang people like you." doesn't remotely fit in to his argument. That explicitly implies that they should hang gays, not people who offend the flag. If that's what he was going for then he would have said something more along the lines of "You should go to a country where they hang you for SOMETHING LIKE THIS.". That would make it known that he was offended by the flag. But because of his phrasing his problem was obviously with her sexuality. Or even possibly the fact that the flag was being used to represent homosexuality. It was most certainly not an issue with JUST the flag.
60
Even if it was just an issue of being offended by an altered flag (and that is possible, a lot of these old school vets take the flag VERY seriously) these vets with the short fuses need to be reminded if you fought for freedom then you fought for freedom. That means that people will be saying and doing things in public demonstrations that you don't like. And no, the old "your right to swing your arm ends where my nose begins" does not apply to being annoyed by a visual image.
61
Isn't anyone's gaydar pinging on this guy? What else would drive him to be so threatened by this little girl and her flag?
62
Why didn't somebody call the cops on the old fart? Have him arrested for assault and battery? Or did he run away before they could do that?
63
If I were her parent I would have pressed charges and pushed for it to be considered a hate crime.
64
If I were her parent, I would have pressed charges and pushed for it to be treated as a hate crime. And I would have contacted his Commanding Officer as well...whatever is going on with DADT, this behavior would still be considered "unbecoming conduct" and the military hates to look bad in the press.
65
Her mother is actually the executive director of the LGBT Resource Center of the Seven Rivers Region. I'm not sure why she hasn't been more aggressive in seeking criminal charges.
66
For kids & teens fac’n crisis: Life isn't EZ. Suicide's a way out, but it's EZ & stupid. Life's neither! When we face our challenges & win, we’re WINNERS! So follow ur dreams & never give up! The Suicide Prevention Hotline says: If U or SOMEONE U KNOW's in SUICIDAL crisis or EMOTIONAL DISTRESS, call 1-800-273-TALK (8255).
No one deserves b’n made fun of. Bullies deserve to get in trouble. U can even call the police to help! U may not only be help'n urself, but others2. In some cases, bullies wisen up & befriend u. It's tru! So speak & stand up. Make a change! Ask ur parents for help2. If they can't, won't, or are some way involved, then go 4help on ur own. It may be scary 2do so- but so are scary movies. Do it anyways! Reach out, call or talk2 someone. Take the 1st step & save ur life 4the many beautiful days yet to come ur way.
Please feel free to copy and pass this message on.
No one deserves b’n made fun of. Bullies deserve to get in trouble. U can even call the police to help! U may not only be help'n urself, but others2. In some cases, bullies wisen up & befriend u. It's tru! So speak & stand up. Make a change! Ask ur parents for help2. If they can't, won't, or are some way involved, then go 4help on ur own. It may be scary 2do so- but so are scary movies. Do it anyways! Reach out, call or talk2 someone. Take the 1st step & save ur life 4the many beautiful days yet to come ur way.
Please feel free to copy and pass this message on.
67
Regarding her parents seeking charges: the Commodore was cited by officers who were on the scene. Several reports were filed and contact was made with the Chief of Police and the District Attorney, but nothing else was considered "warranted" by officials with decision-making power.
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