Slog
News & ArtsSaturday, September 11, 2010
At Large Walking Down Canal Street In Manhattan On September 11...
Posted by Dan Savage on Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 3:02 PM
Sharing the sidewalks with people of all races and religions, with legals and illegals, with women in veils and women in nearly nothing, with gays and lesbians, straights and bis, dykes and bikes. You know...
On some level I think social conservatives are angry that the terrorists attacked New York City and not Branson, Missouri. Al-Qaeda wanted to attack real America—and real Americans—and they knew that here is where you find both. So in addition to murdering 3,000 innocent people in New York City on September 11, 2001, the terrorists insulted the vanity of America's social conservatives and demonstrated that they shared their prejudices. They're still reeling from the blow.
Okay—heading out to dinner now with some fags.
1
Dan, do us a favor and check to see where the nearest toilet is to Ground Zero. Because surely having bathrooms where people shit and piss close by would be a finger in the eye of America.
3
Oh, there was more to the post.
Considering how often conservatives--social and otherwise (John Bolton, the swinger)--have publicly fantasized about the destruction of places like San Francisco and Chicago, I'm not sure they have much regret about NYC being attacked. NYC was perfect for them, because they could get rid of some liberals and some people of color, then go on to claim NYC as their own, as they are doing now with their anti-community center rallies.
Considering how often conservatives--social and otherwise (John Bolton, the swinger)--have publicly fantasized about the destruction of places like San Francisco and Chicago, I'm not sure they have much regret about NYC being attacked. NYC was perfect for them, because they could get rid of some liberals and some people of color, then go on to claim NYC as their own, as they are doing now with their anti-community center rallies.
4
3
yeah
sort of like when the pussy liberals tie America's hands in dealing with NKorea and Iran then somebody uses an 'axisofevil' nuke on San Francisco or LA or Seattle.
real mixed emotions.....
yeah
sort of like when the pussy liberals tie America's hands in dealing with NKorea and Iran then somebody uses an 'axisofevil' nuke on San Francisco or LA or Seattle.
real mixed emotions.....
5
poor danny.
wouldn't know Real America if it kicked him in the ass.
the homoliberals sit bewildered
when their candidates lose (gore?! kerry!?- who could have seen that coming?!? HAHAHAHA)
and the ones that win are Epic Failures (yes. obama. who could have seen THAT trainwreck coming?!? HAHAHAHA)
the only connection homoliberals like danny have with Real America is when some tyrant judge overturns another piece of what is near and dear to Real America.
soon the day will be when it won't be possible to hide behind tyrant judges.
then Real America will introduce itself.
wouldn't know Real America if it kicked him in the ass.
the homoliberals sit bewildered
when their candidates lose (gore?! kerry!?- who could have seen that coming?!? HAHAHAHA)
and the ones that win are Epic Failures (yes. obama. who could have seen THAT trainwreck coming?!? HAHAHAHA)
the only connection homoliberals like danny have with Real America is when some tyrant judge overturns another piece of what is near and dear to Real America.
soon the day will be when it won't be possible to hide behind tyrant judges.
then Real America will introduce itself.
6
The terrorists were looking for a target that epitomized American decadence and corruption.
They hit the bullseye.
There isn't much of Real America in Manhatten.
They hit the bullseye.
There isn't much of Real America in Manhatten.
7
We hated the french, now we love them
We hated the british, now we love them
We hated the spanish, now we love them
We hated catholics, now we love them
We hated the irish, now we love them
We hated blacks, now we... well, most of us love them. I do, and most of you guys do, too.
We hated the british, now we love them
We hated the spanish, now we love them
We hated catholics, now we love them
We hated the irish, now we love them
We hated blacks, now we... well, most of us love them. I do, and most of you guys do, too.
8
I get what you're saying, but I don't agree with your idea of "what" was attacked. It's pretty clear. On 9/11 the World Trade Center and Pentagon were attacked. It was an attack on world trade and the American military. That's why it didn't matter to al-qaeda if Muslims died in the attacks; if they collaborated with world trade, they were "infidels". That's also why al-qaeda has attacked citizens from all over the world in places all over the world -- what they hate is modernity.
I know there's a temptation to make this conflict all about America vs. terrorists but it's really about a global community predicated on interconnectedness vs. paleolithic thugs and their violence. We're not in this alone. All thinking people and nations are our allies.
I know there's a temptation to make this conflict all about America vs. terrorists but it's really about a global community predicated on interconnectedness vs. paleolithic thugs and their violence. We're not in this alone. All thinking people and nations are our allies.
9
Dan,
I disagree with you. I would exercise caution politicizing the tragedy of 9/11. I, too have been to Ground Zero and was humbled. It was a solemn moment. I remain convinced that that event was a loss for ALL of America and by extension humanity. You nailed it in your first paragraph. The rest I could have done without.
I disagree with you. I would exercise caution politicizing the tragedy of 9/11. I, too have been to Ground Zero and was humbled. It was a solemn moment. I remain convinced that that event was a loss for ALL of America and by extension humanity. You nailed it in your first paragraph. The rest I could have done without.
10
Dan, you may be onto something when it comes to how a lot of America's social cons have taken 9/11, but TValley @ 8 is dead right - al Qaeda was making a statement about taking on American power, and chose their targets for their symbolism. Don't play their game by following their rules of terminology.
11
Lark @9. I understand your point, but you really do need to take it up with @6 above, who is making Dan's argument much more eloquently than Dan ever could.
Former conservative darling Dinesh d'Souza wrote a whole book turning Dan's argument on its head, saying we ought to more closely adopt the cultural values of the islamacists, so as to avoid pissing them off in the future. Weirdly, d'Souza hasn't been seen so much, on the conservative lecture circuit, ever since his book came out.
Former conservative darling Dinesh d'Souza wrote a whole book turning Dan's argument on its head, saying we ought to more closely adopt the cultural values of the islamacists, so as to avoid pissing them off in the future. Weirdly, d'Souza hasn't been seen so much, on the conservative lecture circuit, ever since his book came out.
12
Well, the added sentences don't do much to improve it. Maybe the lesson here is that before composing future 9/11 posts smoke either more or less weed, but not this amount again.
13
There have always been extremes. Sensible people must resist them no matter where they exist. Most especially when they intend harm to others. But it is man's burden that there are always those that seek harm to others. Gay people know this well. By the way, there is a Saudi diplomat seeking asylum because he's gay and Saudis whip gay people. This is a case that deserves our attention.
15
@4: Who was it who funded Iran AND Iraq in a destructive and pointless war that claimed the lives of countless civilians and soldiers alike?
Your golden boy Ronald Reagan.
And if we liberals HAD gone along with your desire to attack Iran, we'd be in an even bigger shitstorm than you actually got us into. Don't try to pin the blame on us.
@5: Yeah, Obama's an epic failure all right. I mean, is it really an accomplishment to pass a recovery act that's estimated to have saved about 3 million jobs, institute substantial reform of the insurance and financial industries, tie up our loose ends in Iraq, and improve our nation's reputation in the eyes of the world? C'mon, we all know that a SUCCESSFUL president spends all his time attacking countries that look at us funny, cutting taxes on the rich, and deregulating the major markets, right?
@6: Al Qaeda is made up of people who think that art and music are idolatrous, that nobody should be allowed to look good in public, that sports are the devil's work, and that education should be limited to religious texts.
I'd consider it a compliment for them to think us decadent and corrupt.
Do you think that your idea of Real America is something that Osama bin Laden would approve of? Based on your comment, it certainly seems that way. Which side are you on, you filthy terrorist-loving swine?
Your golden boy Ronald Reagan.
And if we liberals HAD gone along with your desire to attack Iran, we'd be in an even bigger shitstorm than you actually got us into. Don't try to pin the blame on us.
@5: Yeah, Obama's an epic failure all right. I mean, is it really an accomplishment to pass a recovery act that's estimated to have saved about 3 million jobs, institute substantial reform of the insurance and financial industries, tie up our loose ends in Iraq, and improve our nation's reputation in the eyes of the world? C'mon, we all know that a SUCCESSFUL president spends all his time attacking countries that look at us funny, cutting taxes on the rich, and deregulating the major markets, right?
@6: Al Qaeda is made up of people who think that art and music are idolatrous, that nobody should be allowed to look good in public, that sports are the devil's work, and that education should be limited to religious texts.
I'd consider it a compliment for them to think us decadent and corrupt.
Do you think that your idea of Real America is something that Osama bin Laden would approve of? Based on your comment, it certainly seems that way. Which side are you on, you filthy terrorist-loving swine?
16
It was gratifying to see all the places like North Dakota and Arkansas beg the federal government for homeland security money after 9/11 to protect all their strategic targets they were certain the terrorists would attack (grain elevators, giant balls of twine, etc.).
Yes, Red America, Al Qaeda hates you too.
Yes, Red America, Al Qaeda hates you too.
17
I drove by Planned parenthood and people were outside with their anti-abortion signs and 9/11 signs. The two have nothing in common. It quite sad that someone would use the tradegy of 9/11 to further an anti-abortion cause.
18
@6 so you think the Pentagon epitomizes American decadence and corruption? What are you some kind of hippie faggot?
20
@8 couldn't agree more. Adding to the symbology was their attempt to fly into the whitehouse. They were going after our symbols of finance, military, and government.
21
Yeah, 6, over 60% of Americans are asshole coast-dwellers that this country doesn't need. YOU clearly represent most of the country. I really, really wish we could withhold our tax dollars from these idiots, and see how they like their "small government" then.
22
The first act of intellectual failure and cowardice is, rather than come up with a valid argument or reason to prove your point, to wrap yourselves in an emotional garment so that whatever issue you are trying to make people aware of reeks of, and begs for, sympathy, no matter how heinous it is. It is a sad fact fact of history that people are often, and easily, led more by their emotions and not their brains. To navigate the current world requires not only critical thinking skills but an ability to separate the act from the intent, something necessary to keep from being led like sheep by people with an ulterior motive. It should be obvious that people who listen and believe Faux news, as well as #'s 3 & 4, are exactly those sheep.
To be blunt, they couldn't pour piss out of a boot with directions on the bottom.
To be blunt, they couldn't pour piss out of a boot with directions on the bottom.
23
Must be in NY for the Interview magazine November issue: http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/1730…
just like Pam Spaulding.
just like Pam Spaulding.
24
Oops! Missed #6. Hello, Moron. In case you hadn't noticed, regardless of what coast you live on, we are all Americans. Oh, wait. You probably read Armenians. It is exactly that "Us Vs. Them" mentality that will make this world go up in flames. I hate to point out the obvious to you, but since you are so willfully oblivious to it, I feel no choice. No one, and I do mean NO ONE, on this planet has a forwarding address! This is the only home we currently have! And unless you want to end up as some special on the Nuclear Charred B-B-Q menu, I suggest you stop hating people long enough to try to find some solutions or common ground with other people, most of whom, despite your provincial and ignorant attitudes, also have no desire to be on said menu!
We are more alike than we are different, and we are richer for exploring and learning our differences that we are for wanting to exterminate those that believe different because of some bizarre belief in an invisible Sky Grandpa who thinks that we are special because we read a fantasy novel.
To say that you are ignorant beyond belief is, indeed, setting the bar too low....
We are more alike than we are different, and we are richer for exploring and learning our differences that we are for wanting to exterminate those that believe different because of some bizarre belief in an invisible Sky Grandpa who thinks that we are special because we read a fantasy novel.
To say that you are ignorant beyond belief is, indeed, setting the bar too low....
25
The only problem is that the veiled women probably aren't so accepting as you are of the rest of them. Or their husbands. Ditto the ultra-Christian men and women.
This is the problem with being an ultra-accepting tolerant liberal: if you really value your beliefs, then you have to be incredibly intolerant of intolerance. That means *not* "accepting" wife-battery-thumbs-upping sharia-accepting Muslims, for one.
This is the problem with being an ultra-accepting tolerant liberal: if you really value your beliefs, then you have to be incredibly intolerant of intolerance. That means *not* "accepting" wife-battery-thumbs-upping sharia-accepting Muslims, for one.
27
@ 25: not sure exactly what your point is. Yes, most of us super liberals don't "accept" things like wife beating, etc., but that doesn't mean that I see a woman in a veil and immediately dismiss her as a radical Islamic terrorist. Not sure what that had to do with Dan's post, other than apparently insinuating that Dan supports sharia?
28
The terrorists merely read the sign on the building that said "World Trade Center" and thought -- gee, this will stop all world trade.
If only they had met up with Madoff and Lehman beforehand, they'd know that "Wall Street" is more like a facade on a back lot in Hollywood. The trading is done on unix servers in windowless buildings out in places...like Branson, MO.
If only they had met up with Madoff and Lehman beforehand, they'd know that "Wall Street" is more like a facade on a back lot in Hollywood. The trading is done on unix servers in windowless buildings out in places...like Branson, MO.
29
Rudy Giuliani expressed the same sentiment when he addressed the UN after 9/11.
"Just go outside for a walk in the streets and the parks of New York City. You can't walk a block or two blocks in New York City without seeing somebody that looks different than you, acts different than you, talks different than you, believes different than you. If you grow up in New York City you learn that and then you learn something -- if you're an intelligent or decent person -- you learn that all those differences are nothing in comparison to the things that unite us. We're a city of immigrants unlike any other city -- within a nation of immigrants. Like the victims of the World Trade Center attack, we're of every race; we're of every religion; we're of every ethnicity; and our diversity has been our greatest source of strength. It's the thing that renews us and revives us in every generation, our openness to new people from all over the world."
"Just go outside for a walk in the streets and the parks of New York City. You can't walk a block or two blocks in New York City without seeing somebody that looks different than you, acts different than you, talks different than you, believes different than you. If you grow up in New York City you learn that and then you learn something -- if you're an intelligent or decent person -- you learn that all those differences are nothing in comparison to the things that unite us. We're a city of immigrants unlike any other city -- within a nation of immigrants. Like the victims of the World Trade Center attack, we're of every race; we're of every religion; we're of every ethnicity; and our diversity has been our greatest source of strength. It's the thing that renews us and revives us in every generation, our openness to new people from all over the world."
30
@29,
Yes, except that the victims in 9/11 did not reflect this "rich diversity" at all
http://www.gothamgazette.com/demographic…
All of which means that downtown Manhattan finance is far less diverse than...say...my own zip of 98030.
http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/m…
Yes, except that the victims in 9/11 did not reflect this "rich diversity" at all
The victims were overwhelmingly male (about 75 percent), young (many under 40, most under 50), and white (about 75 percent). Only about eight percent were black, nine percent Hispanic, and about six percent Asian. About 75 percent were born in the United States; the rest came from many countries. Together New York and New Jersey accounted for about 87 percent.
http://www.gothamgazette.com/demographic…
All of which means that downtown Manhattan finance is far less diverse than...say...my own zip of 98030.
http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/m…
31
I'm going to ignore the real meaning of Dan's post and simply say that Canal Street is probably the shittiest area in Manhattan (SoHo - and some of Broome street aside - Canal is a dump, especially Chinatown).
Discuss?
Discuss?
32
I lived in a small blue town in a small (by population) red state on 9/11/2001. Here's the thing: no one in small town America is surprised when tragedy strikes a coastal city. Not the LA quakes, not Katrina, not the World Trade Center bombings, not the innumerable muggings, stabbings, and killings.
The populations in cities are simply more dense than in small towns, so the latter three things I listed are very common by way of statistics. The cities are iconic--rural people in other parts of the world think the US looks like Chicago, NYC, and LA, with nothing else in between because that is what the media shows them.
By the same turn, people who live in the major cities of the US think that all people who live in rural areas are stupid (because that's what the media shows them--rednecks in trailer courts). They also believe that there is nothing under them as they fly over the continent, despite the fact that the flyover land is where most of the agricultural output of the US comes from (say what you will about eating local, but durum wheat only grows well in South Dakota on this continent, just as citrus only grows really well on the Indian River in Florida). Finally, why do people flock to the cities? "Because nothing ever happens in the middle of the country."
Stuff does happen in large coastal cities, good and bad, that just doesn't happen in Des Moines. That's why rural people (aka "Real Americans" TM) weren't as upset as city people by terror attacks.
By the same stroke, though, were terrorists to blow up, say, Ponca, NE, the entire nation would be shaken because city-thought of "it's unimportant and nothing ever happens there" would be in sync with rural "it's quiet and nothing bad ever happens here."
The populations in cities are simply more dense than in small towns, so the latter three things I listed are very common by way of statistics. The cities are iconic--rural people in other parts of the world think the US looks like Chicago, NYC, and LA, with nothing else in between because that is what the media shows them.
By the same turn, people who live in the major cities of the US think that all people who live in rural areas are stupid (because that's what the media shows them--rednecks in trailer courts). They also believe that there is nothing under them as they fly over the continent, despite the fact that the flyover land is where most of the agricultural output of the US comes from (say what you will about eating local, but durum wheat only grows well in South Dakota on this continent, just as citrus only grows really well on the Indian River in Florida). Finally, why do people flock to the cities? "Because nothing ever happens in the middle of the country."
Stuff does happen in large coastal cities, good and bad, that just doesn't happen in Des Moines. That's why rural people (aka "Real Americans" TM) weren't as upset as city people by terror attacks.
By the same stroke, though, were terrorists to blow up, say, Ponca, NE, the entire nation would be shaken because city-thought of "it's unimportant and nothing ever happens there" would be in sync with rural "it's quiet and nothing bad ever happens here."
33
@31 Urgutha, no idea what Canal St. is like now, but I have many happy memories of tramping around Canal Street with my mom and her friends in the late 70s, I seem to recall Army & Navy stores, cool consignment stores, etc. PLUS, once, as I was waiting for her, I was in the backseat of our huge, red station wagon with my feet up on the open windowsill, and a young man stopped to photograph my feet, because he said the "light was hitting them perfectly." My secret fantasy has been to walk into a gallery some day and see MY FEET up on the wall...
34
9-11 was easy for Real Americans.
Outraged and Indignant because "America" was attacked so we'll kick your ass by god but because it was Manhatten no real skin in that particular game.
Bombing a WalMart, any WalMart, would have hit much closer to home for Real Americans.
Outraged and Indignant because "America" was attacked so we'll kick your ass by god but because it was Manhatten no real skin in that particular game.
Bombing a WalMart, any WalMart, would have hit much closer to home for Real Americans.
35
21
23
We'll take that bet.
Let global warming add a few feet to the oceans, add some killer hurricanes, flush out a few coastal ratholes (Miami, NO{again...}, NYC, Boston....)
Let the next STD Plague (a real one this time- easily and readily spread, antibiotic resistant, fleash eating, fast acting...) burn it's way through the Free Love Skipping to Gommorah crowd (been nice knowing you...)
Let some rouge state that got nukes thanks to Obama Love and Peace Man diplomacy incinerate a few Big Cities (DC, LA, NYC again; you can add a few of your favorites...)
Throw in a little mayhem and chaos when the darker members of the Democrap Big Tent turn on their tentmates in the gentrified parts of town because the Bankrupt Socialist Welfare can no longer buy them off with public money....
(we won't even discuss the Big One sinking the liberal parts of the west coast states under the Pacific....)
What exactly are we out when the coasts finally dry up and blow away?
No longer being exploited and robbed by Wall Street and WashingtonDC?
The tap on the Hollywood cultural sewer cut off?
Look at how Congress would look without 80-100 Liberal big city House seats. the Senate? Electoral College?
we could live with that.
Yeah.
We can imagine life without the coasts....
23
We'll take that bet.
Let global warming add a few feet to the oceans, add some killer hurricanes, flush out a few coastal ratholes (Miami, NO{again...}, NYC, Boston....)
Let the next STD Plague (a real one this time- easily and readily spread, antibiotic resistant, fleash eating, fast acting...) burn it's way through the Free Love Skipping to Gommorah crowd (been nice knowing you...)
Let some rouge state that got nukes thanks to Obama Love and Peace Man diplomacy incinerate a few Big Cities (DC, LA, NYC again; you can add a few of your favorites...)
Throw in a little mayhem and chaos when the darker members of the Democrap Big Tent turn on their tentmates in the gentrified parts of town because the Bankrupt Socialist Welfare can no longer buy them off with public money....
(we won't even discuss the Big One sinking the liberal parts of the west coast states under the Pacific....)
What exactly are we out when the coasts finally dry up and blow away?
No longer being exploited and robbed by Wall Street and WashingtonDC?
The tap on the Hollywood cultural sewer cut off?
Look at how Congress would look without 80-100 Liberal big city House seats. the Senate? Electoral College?
we could live with that.
Yeah.
We can imagine life without the coasts....
36
Dan's analysis of what the terrorists were trying to do couldn't be more wrong. In addition, it's yet another example of someone trying to use the tragedy of 9/11 for their own purposes. Seriously, f#kk you Dan.
37
Well, yeah, @32, and that's why the Oklahoma City bombing was so shocking to people - first, because it was in that godforsaken "flyover" land, and second - and after a couple of days of hysteria about A-rabs and the like - because it was perpetrated by some nice young white American boys.
It's funny how nobody talks about it any more. They only seem to want to talk about the enemy without, and when media talk about "home-grown" terrorists, who do they talk about? That guy who failed to blow up a car bomb in Times Square. That non-white guy. Hmm.
It's funny how nobody talks about it any more. They only seem to want to talk about the enemy without, and when media talk about "home-grown" terrorists, who do they talk about? That guy who failed to blow up a car bomb in Times Square. That non-white guy. Hmm.
38
Hope you got to enjoy the beautiful tribute in lights memorial. I can see it from my backyard in Jersey City, and I tell ya, every year, it's one of the more powerful things I've seen.
39
Incorrect, Dan. The perpetrators of 9/11 hate YOU and ME and every GLBT person (and every free-thinker, for that matter) in the USA more than they could ever hate anyone in Ms. Palin's "real America". Indeed, Muslim extremists would probably get along quite well with Christian extremists.
As simple-minded as it was, GWB was kinda correct when he said, "They hate us for our freedoms."
As simple-minded as it was, GWB was kinda correct when he said, "They hate us for our freedoms."
42
@41: Yeah, just the facts*.
*Masturbatory, dogmatic, self-aggrandizing, butthurt, illogical, more butthurt, self-righteous, xenophobic, incoherent, even more butthurt, arrogant, rabidly frothing, neurotic, delusional, wanking-at-keyboard-while-typing, impotent rage.
*Masturbatory, dogmatic, self-aggrandizing, butthurt, illogical, more butthurt, self-righteous, xenophobic, incoherent, even more butthurt, arrogant, rabidly frothing, neurotic, delusional, wanking-at-keyboard-while-typing, impotent rage.
43
My God, some of you people need to check yourselves or as we used to say in the 70's, get laid already.
Yes, @32, exactly.
Yes, @32, exactly.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Hating People Doesn't Make Them Thinner by Jen Graves
-
Los Angeles Gay Bar Bans Bachelorette Parties Until Marriage Equality Is Attained by David Schmader
-
Fill in the Blank by Grant Brissey
-
This Reminds Me of the Great Calculator Scare of the Late '70s/Early '80s by David Schmader
-
Idiot Tries to Defend Bigoted Anti-Gay-Marriage Preacher on Anderson Cooper by Paul Constant
-
Six Moms with Too Much Time on Their Hands and a Shitty Website Decide to Fight Gay Superheroes by Paul Constant
-
The Saturday Morning News by Unpaid Intern
-
Why Mayor McGinn's Wife Canceled Her Family's Seattle Times Subscription by Eli Sanders
-
What the Hell Is Wrong With Seattle's Pride Parade? by Dominic Holden
-
NYC Man Ticketed for Not Riding in the Bike Lane by Jonathan Golob
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (43) RSS