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News & ArtsSaturday, September 4, 2010
Politics Americans Warming to Obamacare
Posted by Dan Savage on Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 3:49 PM
Some new oldish polling data on health care reform...
Opposition to the landmark health care overhaul declined over the past month, to 35 percent from 41 percent, according to the latest results of a tracking poll, reported Thursday. Fifty percent of the public held a favorable view of the law, up slightly from 48 percent a month ago, while 14 percent expressed no opinion about the measure, according to the poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation.
Remember when conservatives railed against Hillarycare? I don't understand exactly what attaching the suffix "care" to the name of a politician pushing for health care reform is supposed to accomplish. Why is it an insult? Why is it presumed to be a negative? Maybe "Hillarycare" helped to derail the Clinton administration's health care reform efforts, but... hammering away at the supposed evil of Obamacare while its numbers steadily improve doesn't seem too bright. If it's popular and it's called Obamacare... then Obama winds up with the credit, right?
UPDATE: Mistakes were made—opened a whole bunch of old emails, unread, by accident, thought they waz new emails. Obamacare/Hillarycare question still in play, however. Thank you for playing Slog.
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Yay healthcare! I don't really know what all is in the bill or how it will affect me, but I'm excited to see how it all turns out. The number one priority should be, in my opinion, healthcare for children. Number two should be regulation of the healthcare insurance industry.
3
from POLITICO
Public sours on health care reform as midterms loom
By JENNIFER HABERKORN | 8/31/10
A new poll shows that public support for health care reform dropped sharply in August — a dagger in Democrats’ hopes that their landmark legislation will help them in November’s midterm.
The Kaiser Health Tracking Poll has support for the bill dropping 7 percentage points in August — down to 43 percent — while opposition rose 10 points to 45 percent. That’s the weakest showing since May — and a far cry from the bump proponents had hoped to see as some of the law’s more consumer-friendly provisions kick in.
Democrats said throughout the year-long debate on Capitol Hill that support for the overhaul would increase once the bill passed and Americans were able to take advantage of some of its benefits. But it appears voters’ opinions of the legislation were set more firmly than anyone thought during the bruising political fight.
Opposition to some provisions — namely, the requirement that nearly all Americans buy insurance coverage — has increased. The so-called “individual mandate” was opposed by 70 percent of the Kaiser poll’s respondents.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/081…
Public sours on health care reform as midterms loom
By JENNIFER HABERKORN | 8/31/10
A new poll shows that public support for health care reform dropped sharply in August — a dagger in Democrats’ hopes that their landmark legislation will help them in November’s midterm.
The Kaiser Health Tracking Poll has support for the bill dropping 7 percentage points in August — down to 43 percent — while opposition rose 10 points to 45 percent. That’s the weakest showing since May — and a far cry from the bump proponents had hoped to see as some of the law’s more consumer-friendly provisions kick in.
Democrats said throughout the year-long debate on Capitol Hill that support for the overhaul would increase once the bill passed and Americans were able to take advantage of some of its benefits. But it appears voters’ opinions of the legislation were set more firmly than anyone thought during the bruising political fight.
Opposition to some provisions — namely, the requirement that nearly all Americans buy insurance coverage — has increased. The so-called “individual mandate” was opposed by 70 percent of the Kaiser poll’s respondents.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/081…
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Indeed, different polls show different results. Maybe someone could send an e-mail to that guy Nate Silver, from www.fivethirtyeight.com, and ask him what he thinks about the current popularity of Obamacare?
5
This country is so lucky to have Obama as president. Let's see if we deserve such a good president.
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Dan, you do realize that the poll you link is from JULY?
"By David S. Hilzenrath
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 29, 2010"
You do realize than Slog posted the poll quoted @3 above just a few days ago?
Do you even read Slog, Dan?
"By David S. Hilzenrath
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 29, 2010"
You do realize than Slog posted the poll quoted @3 above just a few days ago?
Do you even read Slog, Dan?
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please don't give Danny any of your shit.
his world is a sunny place,
from his Bong's eye perspective....
please don't give Danny any of your shit.
his world is a sunny place,
from his Bong's eye perspective....
8
I don't understand exactly what attaching the suffix "care" to the name of a politician pushing for health care reform is supposed to accomplish. Why is it an insult? Why is it presumed to be a negative?
Hmmm...would "Bushcare", "Palincare", "Santorumcare" change your opinion?
Seriously, I can't understand anyone defending the status quo in healthcare. For example, just look at how much insurance rates have risen just in the last few years, and how companies are just passing that cost along to employees. That's a good thing?
10
Um, sorry to sound absolutely stupid but what does "Obamcare" even mean?
I like to think I follow politics and I have pretty high reading comp skills, but still, I am baffled about the O-Care thing. As far as I can tell, nothing, and I mean NOTHING has changed for me and mine.
Am I just missing something here? Or is it something (hold your breath) that I'm 'posed to just wait and see? AKA Sara Palin?
Just wonderin'. When does my awesome O-Care kick in? My chronically ill wife would like to know....
I like to think I follow politics and I have pretty high reading comp skills, but still, I am baffled about the O-Care thing. As far as I can tell, nothing, and I mean NOTHING has changed for me and mine.
Am I just missing something here? Or is it something (hold your breath) that I'm 'posed to just wait and see? AKA Sara Palin?
Just wonderin'. When does my awesome O-Care kick in? My chronically ill wife would like to know....
11
NAME-care is intended to evoke not a system but a personality. Instead of something reliable, a sort of compact for each generation to pay it forward, i.e., Social Security, you have nothing but an all too fallible person.
So you think of all of Hillary's, or Obama's, flaws and disappointments and broken promises, you imagine those are the wheels that make healthcare go. Where the personality falls short, so does your medical care. When the personality is in a bad mood, no doctor visit for you. No matter how many good things you believe about the person, you want a degree of staid impersonality for this sort of thing.
It's like the horror of a nuclear plant whose efficiency is tied directly to that maniac Mr. Burns. You'd really rather have a good rulebook than a good man, and god forbid if you have a bad man.
So you think of all of Hillary's, or Obama's, flaws and disappointments and broken promises, you imagine those are the wheels that make healthcare go. Where the personality falls short, so does your medical care. When the personality is in a bad mood, no doctor visit for you. No matter how many good things you believe about the person, you want a degree of staid impersonality for this sort of thing.
It's like the horror of a nuclear plant whose efficiency is tied directly to that maniac Mr. Burns. You'd really rather have a good rulebook than a good man, and god forbid if you have a bad man.
12
Whoops—I accidentally opened four or five old emails. I am dum.
Mistakes were made, accidents happen, I meant the headless bodies in Mexico, etc.
Mistakes were made, accidents happen, I meant the headless bodies in Mexico, etc.
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Mistakes were made—opened a whole bunch of old emails, unread, by accident, thought they waz new emails.
HILLARYCAREGATE!!1!!1 Waht did you no and when did you no it?????
HILLARYCAREGATE!!1!!1 Waht did you no and when did you no it?????
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I no now that I didn't no then and what I needed to no. And you no how laywers are: that's all their wiling to let me to say. At least fer now.
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The public is realizing Obama's plan is not a massive take over of healthcare or a Loony single payer, government run system, but a sensible, centrist program.
What a shame sloggers wanted the loony left plan.
What a shame sloggers wanted the loony left plan.
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So, Elenchos and Dan, you are confirming that I am just stupid? Cuz I totally still don't see where or how hillarycare (failed) and Obamacare (passed) affect me and my wife personally. Seriously please....what is it exactly I'm supposed to be thrilled/pissed about? I still don't get it...???
O is in a bad mood and therefore my appointment with our PCP will be canceled cuz the Commander in Chief that was never invited into the exam room says he's cranky to be there? Um, ok...WTF are you people talking about???
It's my reading comp, ain't it??? Damnit all to hell!!!
What's with the red underline?? I spelled "damn" correctly! That's all O's fault too, ain't it!?!?!
O is in a bad mood and therefore my appointment with our PCP will be canceled cuz the Commander in Chief that was never invited into the exam room says he's cranky to be there? Um, ok...WTF are you people talking about???
It's my reading comp, ain't it??? Damnit all to hell!!!
What's with the red underline?? I spelled "damn" correctly! That's all O's fault too, ain't it!?!?!
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Looking at the actual data, Americans seem highly ambivalent. Recall everybody that the major provisions haven't even been enacted so why would people's opinions change?
http://pollingreport.com/health.htm
Also lone polls are meaningless without looking at whether they're in line with most other polling or not. That is why you should only look up your polls on pollingreport.com, or at least check there if you see a poll showing anything surprising.
http://pollingreport.com/health.htm
Also lone polls are meaningless without looking at whether they're in line with most other polling or not. That is why you should only look up your polls on pollingreport.com, or at least check there if you see a poll showing anything surprising.
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JVM...when and if I ever hear from a poll taker, perhaps I'll take what they say seriously. I have TONS of opinions, but not a single pol has ever bothered to ask me. WHO the hell do they ask? I am a registered and active voter.
I don't mean to say that they don't count cuz they don't ask me, but I do have to wonder WHO THE HELL THAT TAKES THE POLLS DOES the polls ask the ACTUAL QUESTIONS TOO??? And how do they ask it?
I think those are reasonable questions. Does anyone other than the "poll-takers" know the answer?
I don't mean to say that they don't count cuz they don't ask me, but I do have to wonder WHO THE HELL THAT TAKES THE POLLS DOES the polls ask the ACTUAL QUESTIONS TOO??? And how do they ask it?
I think those are reasonable questions. Does anyone other than the "poll-takers" know the answer?
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Dan, that's the best laugh I've had all day. Thanks.
Maia, I dunno, they ask me all the time. Got a land line? (I get tons of crap from Nielsen in the mail too.)
Maia, I dunno, they ask me all the time. Got a land line? (I get tons of crap from Nielsen in the mail too.)
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Nope, fifty-two-eighty, me and a huge number of others do not have a land line. Why would I pay twice to have a phone???
I think that explains a lot. but, just to clarify, it takes a land line to have an opinion as far as "official" opinions are concerned?
Given we are approaching 2011, I think that is faulty. Just my humble opinion, of course.
I think that explains a lot. but, just to clarify, it takes a land line to have an opinion as far as "official" opinions are concerned?
Given we are approaching 2011, I think that is faulty. Just my humble opinion, of course.
21
I think I figured the "care" thing out a little bit. It's not that adding the suffix "care" casues people to discount the policy proposal. Rather, it's that the detractors are hoping to tie the policy to the supposed unpopularity of the person proposing it. So if I'm a Republican, and I know my fellow Republicans hate Obama, then I'm going to call it Obamacare. In other words it works in the opposite (obverse? inverse?) direction that "gate" does.
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@9
Shoddy.
And embarrassing.
M. Bare. Assing.
If things don't start improving around here we may have to find a classier dump to haunt.....
Shoddy.
And embarrassing.
M. Bare. Assing.
If things don't start improving around here we may have to find a classier dump to haunt.....
25
ImplemenTation.
Expect the administration to publicize this more heavily as the election approaches.
Parents of college-age dependent children are largely already aware that they can keep their kids on their policy until age 26.
Personally, I think reading and passing a test on this information should be required to renew your driver's license. It would go a long way toward combating disinformation.
Expect the administration to publicize this more heavily as the election approaches.
Parents of college-age dependent children are largely already aware that they can keep their kids on their policy until age 26.
Personally, I think reading and passing a test on this information should be required to renew your driver's license. It would go a long way toward combating disinformation.
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Are parents of college-age dependent children aware how much their premiums will go up if they keep their loser-mooch kids on their policy until age 26?
Are parents of college-age dependent children aware how much their premiums will go up if they keep their loser-mooch kids on their policy until age 26?
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Actually, the news is even worse than the troll thought. Here's a story about a new USA Today/Gallup poll. Would you believe 56%-39% disapproval? (The penultimate paragraph. The rest of the poll results are pretty gruesome also.)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/20…
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/20…
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@26: It's cheaper to pay a higher premium that covers everyone than to pay for separate policies for parents AND children. And the provision ALLOWS parents to cover college-age children. It doesn't REQUIRE them to. This can only benefit these families, and yet you oppose it, since you apparently side with the greedy insurance companies.
Thank you for playing SLOG.
Thank you for playing SLOG.
30
the polls that count are the upcoming elections in which it looks like democrats are going to lose heavily, alas. herera up by 13 over heck; larsen down by four; muray even and boxer in trouble; the obama team by pasing a muddled confusing no-one-knows-what-the-heck-it-is "reform" thatempowers insurers even more woo hoo hasn't helped, esp. as the current unemployment nos. are all most people feel they need to know about this admin's level of ....effectiveness. Shoulda coulda done medicare for all then compromise to medicare for all at age 50 -- at least that would be understandable....fact is the o teams' total failure to go all out to fight unemployment is going to do us in. plus the falure to message as to the how and why all this bad stuff happened, oh and the failure to really attack wall street leaving most amurkans with feeling that banksters get more care and love than we the people do. btw obamacare fits into gop frame of "govt control takes away yr freedoms" too bad democrats don't even HAVE a frame by which they would explain what the heck they're doing.....(eg, wall st. screwed you, govt. will protect you, we enacted medicare for all just like we have social security for all, etc. etc. we're hiring 5 million into the new wpa because work brings dignity and we have to rebuild bridges and lay down broadband and solar, etc. etc. etc. )
it's all pretty clear. the overall failure is one of guts and conviction. he forgot what he's quoting which is the only thing to fear is fear itself, he let his fear of gop aattacks rule him. shoulda read his rug more.
it's all pretty clear. the overall failure is one of guts and conviction. he forgot what he's quoting which is the only thing to fear is fear itself, he let his fear of gop aattacks rule him. shoulda read his rug more.
31
More timely, almost every insurance company is jacking up the premiums starting October and explicitly blaming it on Obamacare. The same as when the credit cards jacked up the rates before the new laws and regulations went into place.
As an individual policy holder, I already received my letter full of this bullshit. According to a NYTimes article this week, nearly all major corporations will be notifying their employees in October that the worker will bear the full costs of these increases and that its the fault of the healthcare law, Obama and the Democrats.
Nothing sneaky about the timing and all these corporations going along together, right?
As an individual policy holder, I already received my letter full of this bullshit. According to a NYTimes article this week, nearly all major corporations will be notifying their employees in October that the worker will bear the full costs of these increases and that its the fault of the healthcare law, Obama and the Democrats.
Nothing sneaky about the timing and all these corporations going along together, right?
32
I imagine that it's called Obamacare, Hillarycare, and whatever else, to emphasize that it's not about health. Healthcare is a good thing; it's promoting health, making people healthy, taking care of health. Obamacare, then, is all about Obama and advancing Obama's goals and promoting Obama, with little thought given to what it's supposed to be about, namely, health. It also just automatically has a negative sound if you dislike Obama.
34
29- We don't oppose it.
We oppose leading suckers on to believe they can get it, and all the other goodies ObamaCare promises, for free.
31- repeat after the Troll:
"there is no free lunch"
Who should pay for the increased costs of the provisions of ObamaCare? Grow up, America. Spit out the pacifier and start taking responsibility for your own life.....
We oppose leading suckers on to believe they can get it, and all the other goodies ObamaCare promises, for free.
31- repeat after the Troll:
"there is no free lunch"
Who should pay for the increased costs of the provisions of ObamaCare? Grow up, America. Spit out the pacifier and start taking responsibility for your own life.....
35
Is Slog going to post about the BYU Mormons thrashing the Washington Huskies in football?
UW should take Dan's advice and boycott the state of Utah.
It would spare them a yearly buttwhupping..
Speaking of Mormons Real Salt Lake tied a league record with 22 straight home victories. How are the Sounders doing?
UW should take Dan's advice and boycott the state of Utah.
It would spare them a yearly buttwhupping..
Speaking of Mormons Real Salt Lake tied a league record with 22 straight home victories. How are the Sounders doing?
36
Sometimes reading old news is refreshing, people have already moved on but I get time to think about it.
But I'm slow.
Everyone should have insurance(fishwrap logic), being a work troll, I'd like some bail-out cash too.
Anyway...I'll go to work and contribute to my fellow HumanShip.
Errr. I mean F U Hooray for me
But I'm slow.
Everyone should have insurance(fishwrap logic), being a work troll, I'd like some bail-out cash too.
Anyway...I'll go to work and contribute to my fellow HumanShip.
Errr. I mean F U Hooray for me
37
#33:
Health care may not make you healthy, but it goes a hell of a long towards making you healthy if you happen to get sick. Try having a chronic illness without insurance and let us know how that goes for you.
Health care may not make you healthy, but it goes a hell of a long towards making you healthy if you happen to get sick. Try having a chronic illness without insurance and let us know how that goes for you.
39
Remedial Political Science 101: hammering away at Obama-anything-and-everything is just another tactic for working up the base to turn out and vote against themselves yet again... works every time, so why would they give it up?
Look! Osama's under your bed! Don't worry, certified moose-hunter Sarah Palin is here to protect you! Pay no attention to the man with the hand in your pocket fishing for your wallet...
Look! Osama's under your bed! Don't worry, certified moose-hunter Sarah Palin is here to protect you! Pay no attention to the man with the hand in your pocket fishing for your wallet...
40
#39: My question is: are WE Obama's base? While the Dems need every vote they get, we, as GLBT, are a minority. They CAN get by without us. That's the message they have given us, so what are we to do? Earnest and honest question. What is a gay girl in Arizona to do? Please advise cuz this gay girl would love to feel as though she were doing SOMETHING!...voting just feels futile.
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poor people with cancer.
the universe is so unfair.
and only socialists can right those wrongs.....
what if we tell folks to put down their smokes and booze and soda and fatty food and get that nasty cock at the bus depot out of their ass cause most illnesses are lifestyle related and easily preventable.
then there won't be so many folks with cancer. or diabetes or heart disease or AIDS or etc etc etc etc.
then what if we reform the health care system so people who make good choices are rewarded and people who make poor choices are not rewarded. cause the present system has it exactly backwards.
then we change people's attitudes from "WHO (ELSE) is going to take care of my health care issues" to "how can I take care of my health care issues".
It is a subtle but important change in attitude.
Who do YOU think should pay up more?
How many people do you know who are willing or able to pay more for someone else's health care?
The RICH?
Take every penny they have and you'll keep the system going a couple of months.
Then what?
Sympathy is cheap.
But it doesn't pay for cancer treatment.
What is your answer?
poor people with cancer.
the universe is so unfair.
and only socialists can right those wrongs.....
what if we tell folks to put down their smokes and booze and soda and fatty food and get that nasty cock at the bus depot out of their ass cause most illnesses are lifestyle related and easily preventable.
then there won't be so many folks with cancer. or diabetes or heart disease or AIDS or etc etc etc etc.
then what if we reform the health care system so people who make good choices are rewarded and people who make poor choices are not rewarded. cause the present system has it exactly backwards.
then we change people's attitudes from "WHO (ELSE) is going to take care of my health care issues" to "how can I take care of my health care issues".
It is a subtle but important change in attitude.
Who do YOU think should pay up more?
How many people do you know who are willing or able to pay more for someone else's health care?
The RICH?
Take every penny they have and you'll keep the system going a couple of months.
Then what?
Sympathy is cheap.
But it doesn't pay for cancer treatment.
What is your answer?
45
Americans be crazy. EVERY OTHER CIVILIZED COUNTRY has mandatory health insurance/universal health insurance. Your country is BATSHIT CRAZY for expecting otherwise.
Also, most Americans forget one of the main benefits of having Obama as president. The rest of the fucking world doesn't hate your guts quite as much. Think of it as like...a totally cheap terrorist prevention method! Having a president who's not the incarnation of evil!
Also, most Americans forget one of the main benefits of having Obama as president. The rest of the fucking world doesn't hate your guts quite as much. Think of it as like...a totally cheap terrorist prevention method! Having a president who's not the incarnation of evil!
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