Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, September 1, 2010
The Ladies Slog Poll: Buy That Fetus a Drink!
Posted by Cienna Madrid on Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 12:34 PM
Thefrisky.com—a site devoted to female troubles and powered by raw estrogen—recently polled their audience and found that 48.6 percent of women would drink while pregnant. The poll didn't mention whether these pregnant women would drink in public or not—just that more women are open to the idea of drinking while pregnant.
I have never been pregnant, but if you've got a built-in drinking buddy, it sounds pretty rad. But here's the thing: all the pregnant ladies I know say that if you're pregnant and you drink in public, you get nervous, pitying looks from people—as if you are actively killing your fetus's one brain cell.
"The only way to enjoy yourself is to drink alone, in the bathroom, like your alcoholic uncle does," one pregnant friend told me. Now I'm feeling confused and judgmental. Maybe my friends are hysterical and paranoid that society is judging them. Maybe society is judging them. Maybe my friends are pregnant alcoholics.
Help me out. Is it now socially acceptable for pregnant ladies to drink?
1
How did this all work out before the 20th century? Not to be a smartass, as I'm genuinely curious and I have no idea: where were the armies of disabled children over the years?
3
Sure, drinking while preg passes on drink to the fetus who's got a lot less body mass to diffuse that poison. But *A* drink, now and then, isn't gonna do any harm.
Whatever, DWPers. Your body, your choice.
Whatever, DWPers. Your body, your choice.
4
There's a difference between "would drink" and "do drink" while pregnant. One makes you sound indifferent and cool, one makes you a social pariah.
5
@1: institutionalized.
Personally, I would avoid drinking during the first, maybe second trimester. Third trimester, maybe limited to a small glass of something once in a while. Unfortunately this is the hugely pregnant stage and I'd feel pretty self-conscious. Personally I'd rather deal with physical than mental disability in a child, and brain formation happens early on.
But I think it's something where each person decides acceptable risk, though unfortunately there's not a lot of available info on what those risks are. I think I read that FAS happens when people drink more than 8 drinks a week, which seems like a lot to me but doesn't factor in how the drinking is spread out.
Personally, I would avoid drinking during the first, maybe second trimester. Third trimester, maybe limited to a small glass of something once in a while. Unfortunately this is the hugely pregnant stage and I'd feel pretty self-conscious. Personally I'd rather deal with physical than mental disability in a child, and brain formation happens early on.
But I think it's something where each person decides acceptable risk, though unfortunately there's not a lot of available info on what those risks are. I think I read that FAS happens when people drink more than 8 drinks a week, which seems like a lot to me but doesn't factor in how the drinking is spread out.
7
People would sure look at my wife funny when she was pregnant and came into the liquor store with me. People really feel entitled to protect other folk's fetuses. Now that little baby Beelzebub is here, though, people REALLY freak out when wifey is nursing the kid and nursing a whiskey at the same time. Ha! Just toughening up his liver a little, folks!
8
"built-in drinking buddy"
Now that's funny!
5 years ago (which is when I stopped associating with pregnant people), I can say that among Seattle's latte liberal crowd it was OK, even cool, for a pregnant woman to enjoy a glass of wine, although the vast majority of women abstained. Two glasses of wine would raise eyebrows. Any more would be scandalous.
Some of the "men" also abstained in solidarity with their wives. I was not one of them.
Now that's funny!
5 years ago (which is when I stopped associating with pregnant people), I can say that among Seattle's latte liberal crowd it was OK, even cool, for a pregnant woman to enjoy a glass of wine, although the vast majority of women abstained. Two glasses of wine would raise eyebrows. Any more would be scandalous.
Some of the "men" also abstained in solidarity with their wives. I was not one of them.
9
My mom's doctor told her it was OK to have a beer once in a while to deal with pregnancy-related stress while she carried me, which he felt was potentially more detrimental than a little alcohol. I turned out perfectly potato.
10
Joe, you are a fucking idiot. Apparently, a fucking idiot that doesn't know how to use Google. Where were the armies of disable children over the years?" Look it up. They were called retards. Don't worry, those good soldiers were treated super-de-dooper in all of those centuries before the 20th.
Cienna, good writer, also a fucking idiot. This is not something to make light of, even if your dipshit friends think that it is.
Spend a day with a child that has Fetal Alchol Syndrome. Or, spend a day with a child that doesn't have the full blown syndrome, but does have permanent brain damage because their mother drank. Watch them struggle to learn how to read -- at age nine or ten. It wouldn't be to hard for you to find them. FAS was first discovered at the University of Washington, and the world's premier FAS clinic is still there. Do you know anything at all about FAS. Do some research on how many days during a fetus' development there are during which alcohol can result in the "face of FAS." Then get on here and make fun drinking while pregnant.
Drinking while pregnant is about as funny as injecting a little bit of HIV into a fetus to see if they will develop immunity.
For fucks sake.
Cienna, good writer, also a fucking idiot. This is not something to make light of, even if your dipshit friends think that it is.
Spend a day with a child that has Fetal Alchol Syndrome. Or, spend a day with a child that doesn't have the full blown syndrome, but does have permanent brain damage because their mother drank. Watch them struggle to learn how to read -- at age nine or ten. It wouldn't be to hard for you to find them. FAS was first discovered at the University of Washington, and the world's premier FAS clinic is still there. Do you know anything at all about FAS. Do some research on how many days during a fetus' development there are during which alcohol can result in the "face of FAS." Then get on here and make fun drinking while pregnant.
Drinking while pregnant is about as funny as injecting a little bit of HIV into a fetus to see if they will develop immunity.
For fucks sake.
11
Responsible drinking is fine. But even if one drink could or would fuck your baby up forever, it's nobody's business but the pregnant lady's.
12
Typically pregnant women who drink, don't feel like drinking too much. My wife's drinking has never been as moderate as when she was pregnant.
This country is also filled with ninnie nannies who like to tell other people what to do. If I were pregnant I would fill a Jack Daniels bottle with Iced tea just to Piss people of.
This country is also filled with ninnie nannies who like to tell other people what to do. If I were pregnant I would fill a Jack Daniels bottle with Iced tea just to Piss people of.
13
Humans have been ingesting alcohol for millenia, partially due to good that went bad.
The key here is moderation. You shouldn't be going out every night and getting totally blotto, and it IS better that you don't drink, but ... cut yourself some slack if and when you do.
A lot of pregnancies are the result of women drinking, after all.
The key here is moderation. You shouldn't be going out every night and getting totally blotto, and it IS better that you don't drink, but ... cut yourself some slack if and when you do.
A lot of pregnancies are the result of women drinking, after all.
15
Depends what you mean by "drinking". If I were pregnant, I would not stress about drinking a glass of wine once in a while. Some studies say that no amount of alcohol is safe. Show me the child suffering from FAS because his mother had one drink while pregnant, and I'll believe it.
@2: http://www.foodeu.com/articles/Drink+Lig…
@2: http://www.foodeu.com/articles/Drink+Lig…
16
A microscopically small number of babies have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, and the percentage tracks pretty well with the number of alcoholics in society. Women who regularly get falling down drunk while pregnant wind up with seriously disabled children. Moderate drinking is not harmful.
17
@10 Thanks for jumping up my asshole. I was asking a serious question, because this really wasn't a Big Thing widely discussed Back In The Day that I know of. Hence why I asked. Sorry I didn't ask in apologetic enough terms for you.
18
Jesus, # 10, why don't you just start calling everybody idiots. Some points:
1. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is bad.
2. You have to drink a lot, early in the pregnancy, to put your child at risk of the syndrome.
3. People should mind their own god-damned business.
4. Your wig is on crooked.
1. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is bad.
2. You have to drink a lot, early in the pregnancy, to put your child at risk of the syndrome.
3. People should mind their own god-damned business.
4. Your wig is on crooked.
19
"A study published in the International Journal of Epidemiology last year found that children whose moms had “one to two” drinks per week during pregnancy were at no more risk of cognitive deficits than those who had zero alcohol.""
But that would take all the fun out of exercising another way to attempt to control women via their bodies, which we so love to do. So, keep judging away...
But that would take all the fun out of exercising another way to attempt to control women via their bodies, which we so love to do. So, keep judging away...
20
Yeah, the funniest thing about drinking while pregnant is, at the state when its most damaging, a lot of women don't know they're pregnant.
A beer once in a while isn't gonna kill a fetus or even damage it is kind of the bottom line though. I'd go so far as to say that probably at least a third of people had a little taste of alcohol as a fetus, just because of unplanned/unexpected pregnancy or a little bathroom beer once in a while.
A beer once in a while isn't gonna kill a fetus or even damage it is kind of the bottom line though. I'd go so far as to say that probably at least a third of people had a little taste of alcohol as a fetus, just because of unplanned/unexpected pregnancy or a little bathroom beer once in a while.
22
the devastating effects of alcohol on fetal development are limited to mothers with serious alcoholism. casual drinking has never been shown to be harmful to the fetus, but public health messages are rarely nuanced. it's easier to tell people to not drink at all while pregant than it is to tell people drinking in moderation is okay, because "moderation" is relative.
23
FAS is something that is nearly impossible to study. Some studies have shown up to 14 drinks per week doesn't cause any damage. You have a hard time studying the real effects because you can't take a 10 groups of pregnant women and feed them different amounts of alcohol and see what happens to their kids. All that you can do is relies on self reported consumption rates. Even if the reported rates are accurate you can't really control for other factors. Are women who have 20 drinks a week likely to have other diet or behavior issues that cause problems? Most likely. Are you going to be able to find a sample of heavy drinking pregnant women that have the same diet, drug use, exercise behaviors, and socio-economic status as non drinking and/or light drinking women? Unlikely.
24
Okay, yeah, it's a free country, and people can do what they want.
But, really, why? Is a drink so fucking important that you can't put it off for a few months? Do you really not care that you're putting your fetus at risk?
So, yes, you have a right to do what you want. And I have the right to think you're a fucking idiot for doing so.
But, really, why? Is a drink so fucking important that you can't put it off for a few months? Do you really not care that you're putting your fetus at risk?
So, yes, you have a right to do what you want. And I have the right to think you're a fucking idiot for doing so.
25
@24,
Do you have any idea how hard it is to be pregnant? No? Then I reserve the right to think you're a fucking judgmental idiot.
And it's NINE months. As in three-quarters of a year.
Do you have any idea how hard it is to be pregnant? No? Then I reserve the right to think you're a fucking judgmental idiot.
And it's NINE months. As in three-quarters of a year.
26
Actually, there have been a couple studies over the last few years (dig up your own links) saying having A glass of red wine a day can be good for the baby, just like it's good for the adult. It seems likely that the same would apply to A dark beer as studies have shown A dark beer to be good for the health of the adult.
That said, there are countless studies over the years saying that having several drinks in an evening is clearly bad for the baby.
I would say if I saw a pregnant woman drinking a glass of wine I wouldn't think twice about it. If I saw a pregnant woman drinking her third glass of wine I'd probably go talk to her about it.
That said, there are countless studies over the years saying that having several drinks in an evening is clearly bad for the baby.
I would say if I saw a pregnant woman drinking a glass of wine I wouldn't think twice about it. If I saw a pregnant woman drinking her third glass of wine I'd probably go talk to her about it.
27
i agree that in order for it to be harmful, there has to be a fairly heavy consumption in the first trimester. many women do not find out they're pregnant until well into the first trimester, and have been consuming as if they were not pregnant the entire time with no consequences.
the reason for the abstinence message is that there is no level that has been officially declared safe, same as with advil and time in the hot tub.
the reason for the abstinence message is that there is no level that has been officially declared safe, same as with advil and time in the hot tub.
28
p.s. i was a perfect angel with my first baby. second baby? not so much. they're both healthy and happy and smart.
29
@23 FAS is not any more difficult to study than any other illness. researchers always collect data on more variables (nutritional status, etc) than just the primary variable of interest and control for these factors with statistical models. if you needed to have a study population where everyone was exactly the same in every way (not 'unlikely' but impossible), epidemiology would not exist. no single study is perfect or has all the answers, rather it's the larger body of research considered collectively.
30
Actually, paying attention to false problems is dangerous. People tend to only be able to put effort and energy into so many directions. For every fake risk we create, that's energy and effort not being spent on doing something helpful. For the awareness taken to not drink when pregnant, we are taking away awareness and effort for things like making sure you have enough folic acid if you might get pregnant.
Heavy drinking during pregnancy is dangerous. Fetal alcohol syndrome is a horrible thing. But light drinking isn't shown to be dangerous. And stress during pregnancy does affect brain development. If you're creating stress for the mother by having her not drink in social settings, then you are increasing the eventual child's predisposition to be stressed. And you're taking awareness away from issues that matter.
having a drink now and then isn't particularly important. It's easy to go several months without a drink. But being told you can't drink for several months is a completely different situation. Not drinking when you cannot drink is more difficult. The very act of forbidding something to yourself makes it more appealing.
And why should someone do that to themselves when there is no actual health benefit? Better to focus on getting proper nutrition, taking prenatal vitamins, avoiding stress, or any of the other things that would actually be helpful for both the mother and the eventual child.
Heavy drinking during pregnancy is dangerous. Fetal alcohol syndrome is a horrible thing. But light drinking isn't shown to be dangerous. And stress during pregnancy does affect brain development. If you're creating stress for the mother by having her not drink in social settings, then you are increasing the eventual child's predisposition to be stressed. And you're taking awareness away from issues that matter.
having a drink now and then isn't particularly important. It's easy to go several months without a drink. But being told you can't drink for several months is a completely different situation. Not drinking when you cannot drink is more difficult. The very act of forbidding something to yourself makes it more appealing.
And why should someone do that to themselves when there is no actual health benefit? Better to focus on getting proper nutrition, taking prenatal vitamins, avoiding stress, or any of the other things that would actually be helpful for both the mother and the eventual child.
31
I call BS on people who say moderate drinking is ok. Alcohol is a solvent. Period. The first 2 trimesters specifically are critical to brain development, which alcohol is beyond detrimental.
And further, it may take a lot to have the full blown syndrome, but Fetal Alcohol Effects are a lot more common then you think, and they include:
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Fet…
I have heard that a glass of wine late in the 3rd trimester is ok, but honestly people? You can't give up drinking for 9 months to ensure your child doesn't have developmental issues? How fucking selfish, and boy am I glad you procreated!
Sure, people can be on meth for 7 months of their pregnancy (like an old co-worker of mine, who is now clean) and their child can come out *ok* but damn, why risk it?!
And further, it may take a lot to have the full blown syndrome, but Fetal Alcohol Effects are a lot more common then you think, and they include:
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Fet…
I have heard that a glass of wine late in the 3rd trimester is ok, but honestly people? You can't give up drinking for 9 months to ensure your child doesn't have developmental issues? How fucking selfish, and boy am I glad you procreated!
Sure, people can be on meth for 7 months of their pregnancy (like an old co-worker of mine, who is now clean) and their child can come out *ok* but damn, why risk it?!
32
@26, you'd go talk to her about it. And it's your business how? She'd be well within her rights to toss that glass in your face.
@31, is the solvent supposed to dissolve the brain or something? That's not how solvents, or alcohol, work. And alcohol isn't meth.
@31, is the solvent supposed to dissolve the brain or something? That's not how solvents, or alcohol, work. And alcohol isn't meth.
33
Also, any alcohol intoxication over .7 has been shown to be bad for the baby. That means you can *maybe* have one glass.
34
@24: You're normally so reasonable. I really don't get this judgemental response.
A fetus is more at risk if its mother chooses to drive a car every day than have a glass of wine once in a while. Are pregnant women who drive also "fucking idiots" in your book?
A fetus is more at risk if its mother chooses to drive a car every day than have a glass of wine once in a while. Are pregnant women who drive also "fucking idiots" in your book?
35
Fnarf: Alchol acts like a solvent on the brain, in fact the sticky membranes within the brain get weakened when you drink, and cause lasting damage.
Having taken psychology classes and studied brain development (where you can see brain damage) it is pretty easy. As @10 said, UW has a premier study of FAS, and of alchohol on the adult brain. I spoke with a professor who worked on a brain study in the 80s regarding alcohol. It's pretty staggering. If ADULTS have more than a few drinks a month, there is permenant, lasting brain damage.
Not that it stops me, but the scans and papers I have seen are pretty damning.
Having taken psychology classes and studied brain development (where you can see brain damage) it is pretty easy. As @10 said, UW has a premier study of FAS, and of alchohol on the adult brain. I spoke with a professor who worked on a brain study in the 80s regarding alcohol. It's pretty staggering. If ADULTS have more than a few drinks a month, there is permenant, lasting brain damage.
Not that it stops me, but the scans and papers I have seen are pretty damning.
36
It scares the crap out of me when I see parents willing to expose small children and even babies to the risk of bicycling in traffic. The odds of death, dismemberment and permanent disability from that are extraordinarily high -- far higher than most of the crap people wring their hands over, like the occasional drink during pregnancy.
I understand why people get scared and protective when the see a pregnant lady drinking in public. People are ignorant, simpleminded motherfuckers. They divide the world up into easy categories like "good" and "bad" with no mentally challenging degrees of difference in between.
We learned from experience the best way to drink in public if you're showing: do it with four other big round pregnant ladies. Most of these ignoramuses are too cowardly to open their fat mouths to a whole gaggle of pregnant ladies.
I understand why people get scared and protective when the see a pregnant lady drinking in public. People are ignorant, simpleminded motherfuckers. They divide the world up into easy categories like "good" and "bad" with no mentally challenging degrees of difference in between.
We learned from experience the best way to drink in public if you're showing: do it with four other big round pregnant ladies. Most of these ignoramuses are too cowardly to open their fat mouths to a whole gaggle of pregnant ladies.
37
lots and lots of things are "shown to be bad for the baby" but people don't take much issue with them. over-exercising, under-eating, high stress, unpasteurized cheese, running a fever, working around chemicals, and the aforementioned hot tub.
39
and Fnarf: my point was there are lots of drugs (alcohol being a drug) that you can take and your baby will turn out ok. But to risk your child's development...well, that is up to the mother.
Let's say you have a glass of wine now and then (as is suggested by commenters here) and your child has problems? Was it worth it? If you are stressed, take a yoga class or exercise both are much better for mother and child.
Let's say you have a glass of wine now and then (as is suggested by commenters here) and your child has problems? Was it worth it? If you are stressed, take a yoga class or exercise both are much better for mother and child.
40
@17, you ask an excellent question, sir! While I do agree that expectant mothers should avoid downing the Jack Daniels, why indeed has this become "zero tolerance" in terms of the public health message? The LaLeche league used to recommend beer for nursing mothers.
I hate the argument that the public is too stupid to understand facts, so must be fed a one-size-fits-all mandate. It is patronizing to insist that all women, all the time, must avoid any alcohol while pregnant.
I hate the argument that the public is too stupid to understand facts, so must be fed a one-size-fits-all mandate. It is patronizing to insist that all women, all the time, must avoid any alcohol while pregnant.
41
@31 http://parentingsquad.com/yes-you-can-dr…
Yes, alcohol is a solvent but you're not bathing the kid in it. You're having a glass of wine which your liver processes in about an hour. No harm will come to the kid.
@32, yes she might thrown the drink in my face, so? No, it's not my business but it is my responsibility the same as it's my responsibility to step in if I see a parent beating the shit out of their kid or a man beating the shit out of his wife. Doing the right thing doesn't always involve limiting yourself to what's "your business".
@33 (I know, same person as 31) one glass is what I've been suggesting. Out of curiosity, where has it "been shown"?
Yes, alcohol is a solvent but you're not bathing the kid in it. You're having a glass of wine which your liver processes in about an hour. No harm will come to the kid.
@32, yes she might thrown the drink in my face, so? No, it's not my business but it is my responsibility the same as it's my responsibility to step in if I see a parent beating the shit out of their kid or a man beating the shit out of his wife. Doing the right thing doesn't always involve limiting yourself to what's "your business".
@33 (I know, same person as 31) one glass is what I've been suggesting. Out of curiosity, where has it "been shown"?
42
@40
Dude! Have you been watching fox news for the last several years? The public is clearly too stupid to understand facts.
Dude! Have you been watching fox news for the last several years? The public is clearly too stupid to understand facts.
43
@root: In a text book when I was studying abnormal psychology. It's not readily online, so I can't point you to a link. and some commenters said "just less than 3" which means more than 1.
That second glass can have negative effects.
In general, people can do what they want. But downplaying the effects doesn't help anyone. Just in the way more women need to have folic acid not only while pregnant, but before they get pregnant (which can't happen when people don't plan on being pregnant)
But I digress. Sure, one glass in the 3rd trimester is probably ok, but honestly I wouldn't touch anything during the first 2.
That second glass can have negative effects.
In general, people can do what they want. But downplaying the effects doesn't help anyone. Just in the way more women need to have folic acid not only while pregnant, but before they get pregnant (which can't happen when people don't plan on being pregnant)
But I digress. Sure, one glass in the 3rd trimester is probably ok, but honestly I wouldn't touch anything during the first 2.
44
Maybe I'm being judgmental.
But I just don't get it. I like to drink. I like to smoke pot occasionally. I'm not at all anti-party. But if I were a woman, and pregnant, I would gladly give it up for 9 months, just to be sure I'm not fucking up my baby.
Why risk it? I don't understand.
But I just don't get it. I like to drink. I like to smoke pot occasionally. I'm not at all anti-party. But if I were a woman, and pregnant, I would gladly give it up for 9 months, just to be sure I'm not fucking up my baby.
Why risk it? I don't understand.
45
In spite of what some people are saying (e.g., my baby/babies turned out OK, others did too, I know for certain that I am just fine, no one has the right to say, some studies say red wine and dark beer - how convenient - are OK, moderation is better than the unrealistic goal of abstinence), FAS/FAE is just not well enough understood to make those statements. And, Fetal Alcohol Effects are even less understood.
I would never say anything to a pregnant mom. Nor would I shoot her a dirty look. But I sure would think it.
For example, there are twins (by definition, same mom, same ingestion), where one of the twins has FAS and the other does not. Anyone care to explain that away? Guess it really is just a dice roll, huh?
Again, you want to make light of it then you should spend some time with kids that have FAS and FAE. It probably won't happen to a fetus that is moderately exposed (very moderately), but then again you may feel differently when you see how they struggle.
I would never say anything to a pregnant mom. Nor would I shoot her a dirty look. But I sure would think it.
For example, there are twins (by definition, same mom, same ingestion), where one of the twins has FAS and the other does not. Anyone care to explain that away? Guess it really is just a dice roll, huh?
Again, you want to make light of it then you should spend some time with kids that have FAS and FAE. It probably won't happen to a fetus that is moderately exposed (very moderately), but then again you may feel differently when you see how they struggle.
46
@44 - I'm with you there; if I had a womb, and if it had a person in it, I wouldn't drink. But if I want to drink--and I do--it's nobody's business but my own what's going on in my abdomen, especially among the people at the bar.
47
@ Monique,
fair enough. We all get to make our own choices and I certainly can't blame anyone for an overabundance of caution when it comes to their unborn child. I'd certainly rather see everyone in the house give up alcohol rather than the mother overindulge and cause the kid harm.
From what I've read I wouldn't be concerned with a glass of wine or beer a day but as I've said I can't blame anyone for being more cautious with their babies health.
fair enough. We all get to make our own choices and I certainly can't blame anyone for an overabundance of caution when it comes to their unborn child. I'd certainly rather see everyone in the house give up alcohol rather than the mother overindulge and cause the kid harm.
From what I've read I wouldn't be concerned with a glass of wine or beer a day but as I've said I can't blame anyone for being more cautious with their babies health.
48
@35, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that any brain studies in the 80s are pretty meaningless today. Water is a solvent, too, you know.
Alcohol is good for you. In particular, it's good for your brain; those sticky substances you're worried about dissolving are called "plaque" and they are brain damaging. Alcohol helps get rid of them. Alcohol reduces the risk of Alzheimer's Disease and delays its onset; it prevents stroke; and improves both memory and cognitive function.
There is evidence that children born to mothers who drink lightly are significantly less likely -- 30% less likely -- to have emotional and behavioral problems than those born to women who don't drink at all. Light drinking is good for baby!
It's also been a part of human culture for ten thousand years. Some anthropologists think alcohol is responsible for civilization itself.
Alcohol is good for you. In particular, it's good for your brain; those sticky substances you're worried about dissolving are called "plaque" and they are brain damaging. Alcohol helps get rid of them. Alcohol reduces the risk of Alzheimer's Disease and delays its onset; it prevents stroke; and improves both memory and cognitive function.
There is evidence that children born to mothers who drink lightly are significantly less likely -- 30% less likely -- to have emotional and behavioral problems than those born to women who don't drink at all. Light drinking is good for baby!
It's also been a part of human culture for ten thousand years. Some anthropologists think alcohol is responsible for civilization itself.
49
@44: Because there is no proven risk to drinking very small amounts of alcohol when pregnant. A glass of wine is not going to damage your baby. If you are that concerned with such tiny, and still only potential, risks, then you'd better start getting judgemental about pregnant women who drive, who ride their bikes, who live in homes with new carpeting or upholstery, who eat junk food, etc.
I just don't get it. I have German friends, and they would laugh this stuff off as typical American puritanical thinking. Their kids are ridiculously healthy -- no candy, no processed food, no TV. Just food from the garden, almost everything homemade, lots of exercise and creative play (their mother was a Montessori kid). And their mother had the odd glass of wine when she was pregnant. She even--gasp!--let them taste wine when they were toddlers. That anyone would look down on her as a bad parent, or call her an idiot, or ask, a la @39, "Was it worth it?" ...she would just shake her head and think, you people are crazy!
I just don't get it. I have German friends, and they would laugh this stuff off as typical American puritanical thinking. Their kids are ridiculously healthy -- no candy, no processed food, no TV. Just food from the garden, almost everything homemade, lots of exercise and creative play (their mother was a Montessori kid). And their mother had the odd glass of wine when she was pregnant. She even--gasp!--let them taste wine when they were toddlers. That anyone would look down on her as a bad parent, or call her an idiot, or ask, a la @39, "Was it worth it?" ...she would just shake her head and think, you people are crazy!
50
@44,
I like to enjoy a burger now and then. We know that large amounts of saturated fat is harmful to a fetus but the effects of small amounts of saturated fat haven't been shown to be 100% harmless. Pregnant women should go strictly vegan or they don't care about their baby.
I live in the city. We know that large amounts of carbon monoxide and other pollutants are bad for developing fetuses but the effects of small amounts have not been shown to be 100% harmless so pregnant women should all move out to the farm until they give birth. If they don't they're choosing to fuck up their baby.
I could go on if you like but I hope you get the point. Virtually everything we do adds risk to our life and, if pregnant, the health of the fetus, and given the facts available we have to make an educated decision of what risks to take/inflict on the fetus.
I like to enjoy a burger now and then. We know that large amounts of saturated fat is harmful to a fetus but the effects of small amounts of saturated fat haven't been shown to be 100% harmless. Pregnant women should go strictly vegan or they don't care about their baby.
I live in the city. We know that large amounts of carbon monoxide and other pollutants are bad for developing fetuses but the effects of small amounts have not been shown to be 100% harmless so pregnant women should all move out to the farm until they give birth. If they don't they're choosing to fuck up their baby.
I could go on if you like but I hope you get the point. Virtually everything we do adds risk to our life and, if pregnant, the health of the fetus, and given the facts available we have to make an educated decision of what risks to take/inflict on the fetus.
51
Holy fuck. Did that "professor" get his degree from the back of a magazine?
Seriously, Monique, stop while you're not totally behind.
If ADULTS have more than a few drinks a month, there is permenant, lasting brain damage.
Holy fuck. Did that "professor" get his degree from the back of a magazine?
Seriously, Monique, stop while you're not totally behind.
52
@51, the paragraph should read, "if adults have more than a few drinks a month, there are permanent, lasting brain benefits".
53
regardless of what we want to think, @20 is correct.
By the time you know you're pregnant, if you're a heavy drinker, it's probably pretty late to reduce the risk factors that much.
Binge drinking is always pretty much bad for you, of course.
I think the problem is that we're acting like everyone is Tim Eyman, wanting to make it legal to blow through red lights and endanger everyone, when most people don't blow through red lights and try to endanger others.
By the time you know you're pregnant, if you're a heavy drinker, it's probably pretty late to reduce the risk factors that much.
Binge drinking is always pretty much bad for you, of course.
I think the problem is that we're acting like everyone is Tim Eyman, wanting to make it legal to blow through red lights and endanger everyone, when most people don't blow through red lights and try to endanger others.
54
@53, "There is even little evidence that occasional binge drinking during pregnancy seriously harms the fetus, according to an analysis of medical research published during the 35 year period between 1970 and 2005 involving over 3,500 articles. Binge drinking was defined as consuming five or more alcoholic drinks per occasion.
There was little evidence that binge drinking caused miscarriage, stillbirths, abnormal birthweight, or birth defects such as fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS)."
I think steady but heavy drinking is worse than occasional binge drinking.
There was little evidence that binge drinking caused miscarriage, stillbirths, abnormal birthweight, or birth defects such as fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS)."
I think steady but heavy drinking is worse than occasional binge drinking.
55
"an analysis of medical research published during the 35 year period between 1970 and 2005 involving over 3,500 articles"
aaaah yes, that's the stuff. anyone can pull a study or 2 out of their ass that supports what they already believe to be true, but it's hard to argue with the collective wisdom of decades worth of research.
aaaah yes, that's the stuff. anyone can pull a study or 2 out of their ass that supports what they already believe to be true, but it's hard to argue with the collective wisdom of decades worth of research.
57
Wait- who has just one drink..? Is it even possible to feel any sort of intoxication off one drink?
I know I feel absolutely nothing after one drink- so why even bother?
I know I feel absolutely nothing after one drink- so why even bother?
58
i get a light buzz after one drink. problem is i don't want to stop, which is why if i had a uterus and got pregnant i would probably not drink at all. i'm really glad i don't have a uterus.
59
I suggest that the pregnant woman discusses it with her Ob/Gyn. Get the facts from a medical professional that actually knows something about this topic over what someone idiot might post on a blog.
60
Ummm, because 57, not all of us drink for intoxication. In most countries beer and wine are what you have with lunch and dinner. Period.
The scientific literature on fetal alcohol syndrome fails to reveal a significant (i.e., detectable) incidence until the moms studied are ADMITTING to the equivalent of four drinks daily. Given the chronic underreporting of alcohol intake by women in most studies, you probably don't see FAS until there is significant drinking---much more than an occasional glass of wine.
The party line in the US medical community is : "We don't know what level of drinking is safe, so best not to drink at all." Bullshit! I didn't buy that crap in med school, or residency, or during my pregnancies, and I don't buy it now.
(...and don't even get me started on the fact that in earlier eras we treated certain medical conditions in pregnancy with alcohol: premature labor, hyperemesis, etc. The current party line is the current fashion. That's all.)
The scientific literature on fetal alcohol syndrome fails to reveal a significant (i.e., detectable) incidence until the moms studied are ADMITTING to the equivalent of four drinks daily. Given the chronic underreporting of alcohol intake by women in most studies, you probably don't see FAS until there is significant drinking---much more than an occasional glass of wine.
The party line in the US medical community is : "We don't know what level of drinking is safe, so best not to drink at all." Bullshit! I didn't buy that crap in med school, or residency, or during my pregnancies, and I don't buy it now.
(...and don't even get me started on the fact that in earlier eras we treated certain medical conditions in pregnancy with alcohol: premature labor, hyperemesis, etc. The current party line is the current fashion. That's all.)
61
@60 Seriously? That's all you can come up with? If your only reason for drinking is to fit in with the crowd, do yourself and your baby a favor and don't get pregnant in the first place- the last thing this world needs is more mindless sheep.
62
@25- It's more like 40 weeks, which is closer to 4/5s of a year. Why does everyone run with this "9 months" number?
And to everyone with their panties in a wad: unwad them. There's no evidence moderate drinking causes FAS.
And to everyone with their panties in a wad: unwad them. There's no evidence moderate drinking causes FAS.
64
Uhhh 61, I'm not much of a drinker. I like wine with dinner sometimes and an occasional beer. If you're talking about drinking to fit in with the crowd, that wouldn't be me, not by a long shot.
But in most of the world, wine and beer are table beverages, and have been for ages.
I was actually touching on the party line because as a practicing obstetrician, I'm supposed to parrot it. But I don't because the science is lacking. Instead I tell my patients what the evidence shows and doesn't show and I trust them to make good judgements. Most adults really do want to do the right thing and be good parents. Not all people drink to get high. Some like the taste and some like the appetite stimulation. For my own part, a few slugs of beer were all that controlled my vomiting with my first pregnancy (don't ask me why---something about the hops and the urps and the salt and the carbs I guess). All in all I maybe had a whole six pack in the first 14 weeks. Hardly enough to give me a buzz, particularly because it was light beer....). That kept me from throwing up literally 18 times a day and got some calories in, so I can't think it was much worse than the other sedatives we hand out for that condition.
But in most of the world, wine and beer are table beverages, and have been for ages.
I was actually touching on the party line because as a practicing obstetrician, I'm supposed to parrot it. But I don't because the science is lacking. Instead I tell my patients what the evidence shows and doesn't show and I trust them to make good judgements. Most adults really do want to do the right thing and be good parents. Not all people drink to get high. Some like the taste and some like the appetite stimulation. For my own part, a few slugs of beer were all that controlled my vomiting with my first pregnancy (don't ask me why---something about the hops and the urps and the salt and the carbs I guess). All in all I maybe had a whole six pack in the first 14 weeks. Hardly enough to give me a buzz, particularly because it was light beer....). That kept me from throwing up literally 18 times a day and got some calories in, so I can't think it was much worse than the other sedatives we hand out for that condition.
65
Pretty much every woman who's been pregnant in the last few years and dared to have a sip of alcohol in public has a story about some self-righteous do-gooder who gave her a public lecture about how her baby was going to be born with FAS and probably end up raping and killing kindergarten teachers.
I'm on a mailing list with a large and diverse group of women. This subject has come up several times. There are several absolutist FAS crusaders on the list, all of whom have no problem getting right up in the face of someone they do not know in public because they appear to be pregnant and they appear to be imbibing alcohol. They all insist that even one sip of alcohol at any time during gestation can cause FAS, which is horseshit.
I know at least one woman who has a prominent tummy (she is not pregnant, nor particularly fat, she just has a pot belly), and she's been harassed numerous times by the Nanny Brigade for having a glass of wine or a beer.
My mother, like many mothers of her era, coped with pregnancy and its hassles by drinking and smoking to great excess. Not falling-down-drunk drinking, but definitely a few cocktails nearly every night. That used to be pretty damned common. She had six healthy, full-term babies. I'm not saying that makes her some kind of anti-FAS role model - I've definitely encountered some kids with FAS in my time - I'm just saying there has to be some happy midpoint between the prohibitionists and the old days. Starting off with MYOFB unless it's either your body or you were the sperm donor is a damned good beginning.
I'm on a mailing list with a large and diverse group of women. This subject has come up several times. There are several absolutist FAS crusaders on the list, all of whom have no problem getting right up in the face of someone they do not know in public because they appear to be pregnant and they appear to be imbibing alcohol. They all insist that even one sip of alcohol at any time during gestation can cause FAS, which is horseshit.
I know at least one woman who has a prominent tummy (she is not pregnant, nor particularly fat, she just has a pot belly), and she's been harassed numerous times by the Nanny Brigade for having a glass of wine or a beer.
My mother, like many mothers of her era, coped with pregnancy and its hassles by drinking and smoking to great excess. Not falling-down-drunk drinking, but definitely a few cocktails nearly every night. That used to be pretty damned common. She had six healthy, full-term babies. I'm not saying that makes her some kind of anti-FAS role model - I've definitely encountered some kids with FAS in my time - I'm just saying there has to be some happy midpoint between the prohibitionists and the old days. Starting off with MYOFB unless it's either your body or you were the sperm donor is a damned good beginning.
67
once, in an anatomy class, we were talking about FAS and one girl said matter-of-factly: "yeah, i drank through one of my pregnancies and that baby died."
jaw dropper.
one huge problem is that FAS has a huge spectrum and is difficult to diagnose. you might not ever realize the effects.
countries like Germany and Italy that have that causal drinking culture see huge FAS problems.
sad to see us go backwards on this.
jaw dropper.
one huge problem is that FAS has a huge spectrum and is difficult to diagnose. you might not ever realize the effects.
countries like Germany and Italy that have that causal drinking culture see huge FAS problems.
sad to see us go backwards on this.
68
@31: "Alcohol is a solvent."
I know what you intended to say based on your follow-up posts, but in future you should be more specific. FYI, Water is also a solvent. I presume you agree that drinking water is not bad for pregnant women. The quoted statement puts you at risk for being called out by anyone who knows even a tiny bit about chemistry.
@ everyone else:
I don't care about others' behavior as long as they're not binge drinking. (And even then, I wouldn't have the temerity to confront them about it. Unless they're a close friend or family member, it's none of my business.) My (European) husband feels that a few drinks a week is fine. I incline more towards abstinence, despite the lack of scientific evidence that one drink a week would harm the baby. Like a poster above said, it's easier to say "none" than make an established study of what "moderation" means.
Has anyone actually read the alcohol warning signs in bars/liquor stores? In my state it says, "Drinking alcohol while pregnant or prior to conception may cause birth defects."
PRIOR TO CONCEPTION?! So I had one beer on my 21st birthday, and that could fuck up the baby I have at 35? Obviously bullshit. But CYA extremism is easier than proving something one way or the other. Scientific research is an ongoing pursuit of the asymptote of fact. You can get closer and closer to the truth, but it takes a lot of resources, and not all experiments are perfectly executed.
That said, I'll change gears in response to comments above:
If women track their cycles, it's tough to do much damage before they know they're pregnant. Implantation (beginning of the embryo stage) doesn't happen until 1-2 weeks (roughly) after conception. That's when the embryo starts sharing the mother's blood supply. Brain development does begin early, but in my opinion (based on an understanding of science and the journal articles I've read) a bender between ovulation and a missed period is highly unlikely to cause a severe mental disability.
In summary: I don't plan to drink if I become pregnant, but I do not think that a glass of wine a week is an irresponsible decision. Hell, I don't think a glass of wine a DAY is an irresponsible decision... especially if it is consumed slowly enough for the liver to metabolize the alcohol before it can build up (i.e. nurse it for more than an hour). But if and when I become pregnant, and IF I decide to drink in moderation, I will certainly never do so in public. It's not worth the grief.
Sorry for being so long-winded. I'm late to the party (as usual... damn EST)
More...
I know what you intended to say based on your follow-up posts, but in future you should be more specific. FYI, Water is also a solvent. I presume you agree that drinking water is not bad for pregnant women. The quoted statement puts you at risk for being called out by anyone who knows even a tiny bit about chemistry.
@ everyone else:
I don't care about others' behavior as long as they're not binge drinking. (And even then, I wouldn't have the temerity to confront them about it. Unless they're a close friend or family member, it's none of my business.) My (European) husband feels that a few drinks a week is fine. I incline more towards abstinence, despite the lack of scientific evidence that one drink a week would harm the baby. Like a poster above said, it's easier to say "none" than make an established study of what "moderation" means.
Has anyone actually read the alcohol warning signs in bars/liquor stores? In my state it says, "Drinking alcohol while pregnant or prior to conception may cause birth defects."
PRIOR TO CONCEPTION?! So I had one beer on my 21st birthday, and that could fuck up the baby I have at 35? Obviously bullshit. But CYA extremism is easier than proving something one way or the other. Scientific research is an ongoing pursuit of the asymptote of fact. You can get closer and closer to the truth, but it takes a lot of resources, and not all experiments are perfectly executed.
That said, I'll change gears in response to comments above:
If women track their cycles, it's tough to do much damage before they know they're pregnant. Implantation (beginning of the embryo stage) doesn't happen until 1-2 weeks (roughly) after conception. That's when the embryo starts sharing the mother's blood supply. Brain development does begin early, but in my opinion (based on an understanding of science and the journal articles I've read) a bender between ovulation and a missed period is highly unlikely to cause a severe mental disability.
In summary: I don't plan to drink if I become pregnant, but I do not think that a glass of wine a week is an irresponsible decision. Hell, I don't think a glass of wine a DAY is an irresponsible decision... especially if it is consumed slowly enough for the liver to metabolize the alcohol before it can build up (i.e. nurse it for more than an hour). But if and when I become pregnant, and IF I decide to drink in moderation, I will certainly never do so in public. It's not worth the grief.
Sorry for being so long-winded. I'm late to the party (as usual... damn EST)
69
I couldn't vote. I would've picked: "It might not be socially acceptable, but a drink here and there in public or private isn't go to hurt the fetus's one brain cell." Or, according to the study that @19 mentions, one to two per week! Whoo hoo! I'm getting pregnant!
70
I think there's a huge problem with the world policing the behavior of women we presume to be pregnant.
#1 - Are you sure she's pregnant? Maybe that belly is a metabolic disorder or a big tumor, benign or cancerous. Maybe she's just fat. Can you tell? I can't, and I deliver babies for a living. Unless it's you, yourself, or you're the FOB, STFU.
#2 - How the hell do you know what's in that glass? Do you know if that's an O'Doul's or a cranberry juice or pear juice, or a ginger ale? You don't, so STFU.
#3 - What the hell do you know about her world, her situation, her problems? Maybe her doc has given her guidelines and she follows them. Who are you to overrule her medical team? STFU.
#4 - This is in no way analogous (as one poster suggests above) to intervening with someone who's smacking a child around. Don't even go there. That's like saying we should invade Iraq because Saddam might have WMDs (and we all know how that turned out). STFU!!
#5 - I have been taking care of pregnant women for decades and I have yet to meet one who isn't trying her damnedest to be a good mom. I include in that statement meth-heads and alcoholics. These folks are really trying, and even if they are failing YOU ARE NOT HELPING BY REGISTERING YOUR DISAPPROVAL. Do you really think your symbolic statement is making ANY difference in her situation? You're right: it isn't. If you want babies to be healthier, there are lots of things you CAN do, like supporting universal healthcare for moms and babes, pushing Congress to expand WIC, and demanding that drug and alcohol rehab centers take mothers WITH their children. These things make a difference.
But confronting a woman you think is pregnant with what you think is alcohol in her hand?
Oh please STFU.
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#1 - Are you sure she's pregnant? Maybe that belly is a metabolic disorder or a big tumor, benign or cancerous. Maybe she's just fat. Can you tell? I can't, and I deliver babies for a living. Unless it's you, yourself, or you're the FOB, STFU.
#2 - How the hell do you know what's in that glass? Do you know if that's an O'Doul's or a cranberry juice or pear juice, or a ginger ale? You don't, so STFU.
#3 - What the hell do you know about her world, her situation, her problems? Maybe her doc has given her guidelines and she follows them. Who are you to overrule her medical team? STFU.
#4 - This is in no way analogous (as one poster suggests above) to intervening with someone who's smacking a child around. Don't even go there. That's like saying we should invade Iraq because Saddam might have WMDs (and we all know how that turned out). STFU!!
#5 - I have been taking care of pregnant women for decades and I have yet to meet one who isn't trying her damnedest to be a good mom. I include in that statement meth-heads and alcoholics. These folks are really trying, and even if they are failing YOU ARE NOT HELPING BY REGISTERING YOUR DISAPPROVAL. Do you really think your symbolic statement is making ANY difference in her situation? You're right: it isn't. If you want babies to be healthier, there are lots of things you CAN do, like supporting universal healthcare for moms and babes, pushing Congress to expand WIC, and demanding that drug and alcohol rehab centers take mothers WITH their children. These things make a difference.
But confronting a woman you think is pregnant with what you think is alcohol in her hand?
Oh please STFU.
71
My wife and I did quite a bit of reading on dietary and drinking during both pregnancies (we are both vegetarians so were a little more wigged about dietary things). Based on that reading, we concluded that a little drinking every now and then was ok.
And based on the existence of people like Original Monique & Reverse Polarity we adopted a strategy for whenever someone gave my wife the stink eye when she had a beer. I would finish most of my beer quickly and then switch glasses with her throughout the evening. We would then have her order another beer. And another. And another. And another. She would wind up drinking 1-1 1/2 beers max, but continually be ordering.
Pure comedy gold watching people try to contain their disapproval.
And based on the existence of people like Original Monique & Reverse Polarity we adopted a strategy for whenever someone gave my wife the stink eye when she had a beer. I would finish most of my beer quickly and then switch glasses with her throughout the evening. We would then have her order another beer. And another. And another. And another. She would wind up drinking 1-1 1/2 beers max, but continually be ordering.
Pure comedy gold watching people try to contain their disapproval.
73
Quite likely no one is reading this anymore, but my wife is pregnant with our second child and is having occasional drinks. This is based on the following advice from our pediatrician:
1. No American doctor would ever say it is OK to drink during pregnancy.
2. There is no established minimal level of drinking that has been established as safe.
3. Studies to rigorously determine a safe drinking level during pregnancy would be unethical.
4. In France, the advice to pregnant women is to have no more than two glasses of wine a day.
5. In France, the level of FAS is lower than the US.
6. You are now fully informed.
My wife would probably have a couple of drinks a week, but I'm more cautious (and paranoid that if something goes wrong for any reason that it will be too easy to blame the drinking). Because I'm the only other person whose opinion counts, she won't drink if it makes me uncomfortable.
1. No American doctor would ever say it is OK to drink during pregnancy.
2. There is no established minimal level of drinking that has been established as safe.
3. Studies to rigorously determine a safe drinking level during pregnancy would be unethical.
4. In France, the advice to pregnant women is to have no more than two glasses of wine a day.
5. In France, the level of FAS is lower than the US.
6. You are now fully informed.
My wife would probably have a couple of drinks a week, but I'm more cautious (and paranoid that if something goes wrong for any reason that it will be too easy to blame the drinking). Because I'm the only other person whose opinion counts, she won't drink if it makes me uncomfortable.
74
Drinking early on in pregnancy is most likely to cause defects. Some studies (this is not well researched) suggest that an occasional glass of wine is ok. This is something that gives me pause as a bartender - what do I do when a pregnant woman comes up to me and orders a drink? And God help me if I say "I don't want to serve a pregnant woman" and she's not pregnant.
75
Look, if you can't handle your life without alcohol for 9 months, you've got a problem. That includes "pregnancy-related stress". You wanna know what's stressful? Raising a disabled child.
The "societal pressure" I got when I was pregnant was everybody saying to me "how are you doing NOT DRINKING? Isn't NOT DRINKING really hard? I don't think I could handle NOT DRINKING for 9 months."
What the fuck is wrong with our society that the mere idea of being unimpaired is so frightening?
The "societal pressure" I got when I was pregnant was everybody saying to me "how are you doing NOT DRINKING? Isn't NOT DRINKING really hard? I don't think I could handle NOT DRINKING for 9 months."
What the fuck is wrong with our society that the mere idea of being unimpaired is so frightening?
76
OK, I'm still steamed up about this.
All y'all who are drinking to deal with "pregnancy-related stress"? Hey, guess what? Being a parent is infinitely more stressful. Now would be a great time to find some way of coping with stress other than alcohol.
I know (from experience, thank you) that there are lots of things that pregnant women are/are not supposed to eat and drink, and it's a hassle, and you get some unsolicited advice. (I never got much advice, truth be told, but I got some, it's annoying, fine.) For example, you're not supposed to eat unpasteurized soft cheeses. This is because there is a risk that they may carry a certain bacteria that can cause birth defects. Some people eat unpasteurized Brie anyway. THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS DRINK AND DRUGS.
See, if you eat the Brie and it doesn't have the bacteria-- and it probably won't; although some contaminated cheese did show up at a local grocery store and at the farmer's market in my neighborhood this year, as it happens-- if you eat the cheese and it DOESN'T have the bacteria, NO HARM DONE. Alcohol is different. If you drink, there is SOME harm. "Having" FAS means having it severely enough that your parents can't ignore the problem. Not "having" FAS doesn't necessarily mean that you were not affected by alcohol exposure in utero.
Furthermore-- and I think the science is entirely in agreement on this point-- kids are definitely adversely affected by having parents who use alcohol to deal with stress. (I also know this from experience.)
C'mon, seriously? There are plenty of tasty non-alcoholic beverages out there, and you are, in fact, allowed to enter a bar even if you're not drinking alcohol.
All y'all who are drinking to deal with "pregnancy-related stress"? Hey, guess what? Being a parent is infinitely more stressful. Now would be a great time to find some way of coping with stress other than alcohol.
I know (from experience, thank you) that there are lots of things that pregnant women are/are not supposed to eat and drink, and it's a hassle, and you get some unsolicited advice. (I never got much advice, truth be told, but I got some, it's annoying, fine.) For example, you're not supposed to eat unpasteurized soft cheeses. This is because there is a risk that they may carry a certain bacteria that can cause birth defects. Some people eat unpasteurized Brie anyway. THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS DRINK AND DRUGS.
See, if you eat the Brie and it doesn't have the bacteria-- and it probably won't; although some contaminated cheese did show up at a local grocery store and at the farmer's market in my neighborhood this year, as it happens-- if you eat the cheese and it DOESN'T have the bacteria, NO HARM DONE. Alcohol is different. If you drink, there is SOME harm. "Having" FAS means having it severely enough that your parents can't ignore the problem. Not "having" FAS doesn't necessarily mean that you were not affected by alcohol exposure in utero.
Furthermore-- and I think the science is entirely in agreement on this point-- kids are definitely adversely affected by having parents who use alcohol to deal with stress. (I also know this from experience.)
C'mon, seriously? There are plenty of tasty non-alcoholic beverages out there, and you are, in fact, allowed to enter a bar even if you're not drinking alcohol.
77
Well, rca, the amazing thing about humans is that we all process our ideas about risk differently.
For my part, I'm quite the opposite of you. The bug in the cheese you reference (Listeria) is deadly. If you contract the infection from contaminated cheese or deli meat (and you won't know it was tainted until later) your fetus will die. End of story. So my opinion is that that risk is unacceptable.
The risk of an occasional beer or glass of wine is much much lower. In fact that risk is purely theoretical, since the science isn't there to support that it's risky at all.
On the other hand I should say that I don't drink to deal with stress either, so I'm in agreement with you that alcohol is not a good way to de-stress.... Having said that, I would point out that sometimes people who aren't as enlightened and well-adjusted and centered as you do find themselves to be pregnant.....
For my part, I'm quite the opposite of you. The bug in the cheese you reference (Listeria) is deadly. If you contract the infection from contaminated cheese or deli meat (and you won't know it was tainted until later) your fetus will die. End of story. So my opinion is that that risk is unacceptable.
The risk of an occasional beer or glass of wine is much much lower. In fact that risk is purely theoretical, since the science isn't there to support that it's risky at all.
On the other hand I should say that I don't drink to deal with stress either, so I'm in agreement with you that alcohol is not a good way to de-stress.... Having said that, I would point out that sometimes people who aren't as enlightened and well-adjusted and centered as you do find themselves to be pregnant.....
78
@76: You are simply moralizing. Your opinion is not based in fact.
"no study has been able to correlate moderate drinking to birth defects. The studies used to promote abstinence from drinking are based on results from heavy drinkers."
"A study in 2006 by the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology concluded that there was no convincing evidence of adverse effects of prenatal alcohol exposure at low to moderate levels."
Dr Eric Jauniaux, professor of obstetrics and fetal medicine at the Royal Free hospital in London: "Alcohol is mainly metabolised by the liver, and only what's left will be met by the placenta. The amount that could reach the foetus in a glass of beer or a glass of wine is negligible."
“If a patient tells me that she’s drinking two or three glasses of wine a week, I am personally comfortable with that after the first trimester,” said Dr. Austin Chen, an obstetrician in TriBeCa.
"As far as we know, drinking lightly during pregnancy does not have adverse consequences. The systematic studies and meta-analyses we looked at suggest that drinking fewer than three small drinks per week is a safe level of consumption for pregnant women. This result seems robust in that the literature reviews considered hundreds of articles."
http://parentingsquad.com/yes-you-can-dr…
http://www.stats.org/stories/2007/what_r…
"The study found that small doses of alcohol did not harm the baby's cognitive development and in many cases, may have been beneficial to the child." Small doses is defined as 1-2 drinks per week.
http://www.foodeu.com/articles/Drink+Lig…
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Alcohol is different. If you drink, there is SOME harm.
"no study has been able to correlate moderate drinking to birth defects. The studies used to promote abstinence from drinking are based on results from heavy drinkers."
"A study in 2006 by the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology concluded that there was no convincing evidence of adverse effects of prenatal alcohol exposure at low to moderate levels."
Dr Eric Jauniaux, professor of obstetrics and fetal medicine at the Royal Free hospital in London: "Alcohol is mainly metabolised by the liver, and only what's left will be met by the placenta. The amount that could reach the foetus in a glass of beer or a glass of wine is negligible."
“If a patient tells me that she’s drinking two or three glasses of wine a week, I am personally comfortable with that after the first trimester,” said Dr. Austin Chen, an obstetrician in TriBeCa.
"As far as we know, drinking lightly during pregnancy does not have adverse consequences. The systematic studies and meta-analyses we looked at suggest that drinking fewer than three small drinks per week is a safe level of consumption for pregnant women. This result seems robust in that the literature reviews considered hundreds of articles."
http://parentingsquad.com/yes-you-can-dr…
http://www.stats.org/stories/2007/what_r…
Furthermore-- and I think the science is entirely in agreement on this point-- kids are definitely adversely affected by having parents who use alcohol to deal with stress.
"The study found that small doses of alcohol did not harm the baby's cognitive development and in many cases, may have been beneficial to the child." Small doses is defined as 1-2 drinks per week.
http://www.foodeu.com/articles/Drink+Lig…
79
@76 "If you drink, there is SOME harm."
Nope. You're assumptions are wrong, so your conclusions are shot.
Humans have spent tens of thousands of years being less than completely sober, and it's worked out well for us.
Nope. You're assumptions are wrong, so your conclusions are shot.
Humans have spent tens of thousands of years being less than completely sober, and it's worked out well for us.
80
I drank moderately (as in, an *occasional* glass of wine *with a meal*) during both of my recent pregnancies, after I'd successfully passsed the one-trimester mark (an especially intense time when baby's neurons are getting knitted together) with all signals go, health-wise. Both of my kids were born healthy and with no complications. The point is to avoid *fetal alcohol syndrome* people (drunkenness is a no-no), so please don't get all preachy. Plenty of women in Europe (and other less puritanical places than the U.S., too, I imagine) drink during pregnancy with no ill effects. In fact, in some countries, upon the announcement of the pregnancy, women actually have the tradition of gathering to toast the new-mother-to-be (who of course imbibes) with liqueurs considered special to the occasion. Lighten up!
82
Most of the harm that may have occurred, UNLESS YOU ARE DRINKING YOURSELF BLOTTO MOST NIGHTS LIKE AN ALKIE, occurred before the potential mother realized she was pregnant.
Now, smoking, on the other hand, that has really bad impacts during all of the pregnancy, but not as much at early stages.
Now, smoking, on the other hand, that has really bad impacts during all of the pregnancy, but not as much at early stages.
84
I'm not in the field but it seems to me that, looking at the 'yes alcohol'/'no alcohol' studies that -- durr -- a small percentage of women can give their babies FAS by drinking only a few drinks, but most women won't hurt the fetus drinking anything below a liver-killing amount. They just don't know what the real X factor(s) is -- and really, where the fuck are they going to get the data to say one way or another? It's not exactly an experiment that can be carried out this side of Nazi Germany. To know the answer, we need to look more closely at the women whose kids have FAS after only a few drinks while pregnant, but it is probably way harder than it sounds to get a large test group of these women. Plus, it's not exactly the sexiest disease/condition to cure; if you prohibit women from drinking the devil's drink, it goes away. Is anyone even motivated to study it right now?
85
@84- "...we need to look more closely at the women whose kids have FAS after only a few drinks while pregnant, but it is probably way harder than it sounds to get a large test group of these women."
Pretty much impossible, because you need to have observed the women 24/7 for forty weeks to make sure they're not lying.
Pretty much impossible, because you need to have observed the women 24/7 for forty weeks to make sure they're not lying.
88
Hell, I was pregnant in Europe. I was drinking, smoking and having orgies in the hot tub. THOSE people know how to handle a life change.
89
Honestly, drinking while pregnant isn't that bad. If you're drinking 'til you pass out, that's damaging, but think about the Middle Ages. At that time, water was unsafe to drink. Pretty much all anyone drank was ale. Did every baby have FAS? Um...no.
90
I think it's selfish to take chances with your fetus's health. However, I wouldn't judge any woman who was following her doctor's recommendations, even if that included a glass of wine with dinner. If it were me, I would give up alcohol all together- but then again, it wouldn't exactly be a huge sacrifice for me to make. I probably haven't had more than one or two drinks in the last nine months anyway. It wouldn't be all that hard for me to go without. The thing I would really struggle with would be giving up caffiene. Going decaf for 9 mos. would be really difficult, so I imagine that for some women, going without a glass or two of wine would be next to impossible for them.
Also, no men can comment on this, because they get to drink all through their wive's or baby momma's pregnancies. They don't have to change all that much. No 9 mos. of being a cow, no pushing a bowling ball out of their ass, no lactating, no breastfeeding, and they don't do anywhere near the amount of caregiving as we women do. As long as your wife or girlfriend is following doctor's orders, I would suggest you shut the hell up about what she should and shouldn't be eating or drinking.
Also, no men can comment on this, because they get to drink all through their wive's or baby momma's pregnancies. They don't have to change all that much. No 9 mos. of being a cow, no pushing a bowling ball out of their ass, no lactating, no breastfeeding, and they don't do anywhere near the amount of caregiving as we women do. As long as your wife or girlfriend is following doctor's orders, I would suggest you shut the hell up about what she should and shouldn't be eating or drinking.
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