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News & ArtsWednesday, September 1, 2010
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Ex'd Out
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 2:04 PM
My partner of two years just broke up with me. We were living together at his place and after the breakup we decided that I could live with him until I found a job (I was laid off last year and still haven't found anything). I was pretty depressed because of my failure to find a job; the breakup made the depression worse. I was in an obvious state of grief over the end of the relationship. I'm assuming he had been thinking about breaking up with me for a while, so he was emotionally prepared for the post-breakup phase. Living with my ex was tough, since my status was downgraded from boyfriend to roommate, even though we were still sharing the same bed.We also hadn't ironed out details of our breakup—would we bring dates home? would we still have sex? would we have sex with others?—and when I tried to have this conversation with him he dodged. He did, however, say that if I wanted to know anything all I had to do was ask. I had no plans for sex or dating, especially not when I was grieving, though I hoped my ex and I would continue having sex.
A couple of weeks after the breakup I tried to have the post breakup conversation again, I learned from him (and boy did he not want to tell me!) that a week after our breakup he participated in an orgy with mutual friends while I was camping with my brother. I was not emotionally prepared for this news. I got very upset and angry, left, and now I'm living with a friend. My ex can't understand why I was so upset, since we were broken up and his affairs were no longer any of my business, as he said. I was furious. I realize that a lot of my anger comes from not getting what I want, but I also feel that having an orgy with mutual friends one week after our breakup, and not being honest about it, was ill-advised at best and unnecessarily hurtful. He thinks that there wouldn't be a problem if I weren't so immature and selfish. I think there wouldn't be a problem if he had been honest about about his intentions to go wild so soon after we broke up. Of course, it hurt me that he was able to move on so quickly, without going through any apparent grief about the end of the relationship.
This wouldn't be a problem but we have many friends in common and hang out regularly, so we're sure to interact at least once a week. I feel terrible about how this happened and think it could have been avoided with honest and open communication. What do you think, Dan?
Exes And Orgies
My response after the jump...
••••••••••
I think he's your EX-boyfriend, EAO.
And I think your ex is free to do whatever he pleases without running it by you first—regardless of your living arrangements, regardless of your hopes, regardless of your feelings that your post-breakup conversations have been inadequate at best. Would it have been any easier if he had been honest with about his intentions to go wild and attend an orgy? When would've been the right time to give you a heads up? Before? After? During?
I don't mean to be cruel, EAO. You have a right to your feelings—you have a right to be upset if you're upset—but you don't have a right to dictate terms to your ex. He's right: the orgy was none of your business. You were not together, he did nothing wrong. And it sounds like you only found out about it because you pressed him. Perhaps he didn't tell you because, in addition to it not being any of your business, your ex-boyfriend knew that you would be upset and he wanted to spare your feelings (or spare himself the grief).
And I'm thinking your post-breakup relationship—unavoidable interactions thanks to mutual friends (presumably not the same friends from the orgy)—might be easier to negotiate if you hadn't dragged the orgy confession out of him. Finding out a year or two from now, after you found your own place, and landed a new job, that he'd gone wild after the breakup might've been less painful.
1
Dan's right of course. But may I state the obvious? WTF was EAO doing living with an ex when she was still "grieving" over the relationship? If there was ever a time to GTFO and explore the hospitality of your friends and their couches, this is the time ...
3
"we have many friends in common and hang out regularly"
More than you know, EAO. More than you know.
More than you know, EAO. More than you know.
4
Dan's right. He broke up with you. It's not his fault you had unreal expectations. Better he had an orgy after the break up than before. Be graceful if you have any hope of a post break up relationship.
5
The ex is being a dick. Clearly the ex was over the relationship a long time ago and delayed giving EAO the news because she was unemployed. It sounds like the the ex could have been passive-aggressive by dodging a real conversation about the breakup and instead saying he would tell EAO whatever she wanted to know.
I agree that he was free to do what he wanted, but he knew EAO was struggling, and not even close to being aware of his true feelings. He was really insensitive. The guy sounds like a nasty bit of work. Good riddance.
I agree that he was free to do what he wanted, but he knew EAO was struggling, and not even close to being aware of his true feelings. He was really insensitive. The guy sounds like a nasty bit of work. Good riddance.
7
"since my status was downgraded from boyfriend to roommate"
Why are you people saying this letter is from a female? Seems to me it's a guy.
Why are you people saying this letter is from a female? Seems to me it's a guy.
11
AD, that was my original take as well, but then everyone kept saying "her."
Still a drama queen, though.
Still a drama queen, though.
13
Agree w/5 & 6 - The ex sounds like a jerk.
But EAO - WTF were you doing still sleeping in your now-roommate's bed?!? And still hoping for sex?!?!
Your jerky ex MUST have been aware that you were still secretly hoping for some show of emotion (or lust) from him - he let you go on thinking that, all the while knowing that there was no possibility? MAJOR DOUCHE!!
EAO, I know it doesn't seem like it now, but your ex really and truly did for you the very best thing he could, which was to end it. The sooner this guy is totally out of your life, the better. (And yeah, those mutual 'friends' - you can do better, trust me.)
But EAO - WTF were you doing still sleeping in your now-roommate's bed?!? And still hoping for sex?!?!
Your jerky ex MUST have been aware that you were still secretly hoping for some show of emotion (or lust) from him - he let you go on thinking that, all the while knowing that there was no possibility? MAJOR DOUCHE!!
EAO, I know it doesn't seem like it now, but your ex really and truly did for you the very best thing he could, which was to end it. The sooner this guy is totally out of your life, the better. (And yeah, those mutual 'friends' - you can do better, trust me.)
14
yup, FTE, definitely a drama queen. And a guy. Sounds like some of the guys I've dated in fact....
15
Oh, fuck off EAO - he broke up with you. Get over over it, and quit expecting him to keep treating you like a SO.
17
If the ex-boyfriend had any hopes of maintaining a friendship after the break-up, this probably wasn't the way to go about it. A short grace period demonstrates some respect if you want to leave on good terms.
If my ex slept with our mutual friends a week after a break-up, I'd be pretty hurt too. Moreso by the friends, though.
If my ex slept with our mutual friends a week after a break-up, I'd be pretty hurt too. Moreso by the friends, though.
18
I am the recent dumpee in a 10-year relationship. As part of my grieving, I have been experiencing my own feelings of jealously, wondering what he has been up to, and with whom. But Dan's right: it's none of my business.
Fortunately, he moved out of our apartment, so I don't have to deal with what EAO is dealing with, but I have been in a similar situation before, so I can empathize. Bottom line: you need to get out of that apartment as soon as possible. Crash with a friend or relative until you find a new job if you can. Being around an ex who you care about who doesn't feel the same way is toxic and bad for your emotional well-being. As hard as it is to accept, he is free to fuck whomever he likes, whenever he likes.
Fortunately, he moved out of our apartment, so I don't have to deal with what EAO is dealing with, but I have been in a similar situation before, so I can empathize. Bottom line: you need to get out of that apartment as soon as possible. Crash with a friend or relative until you find a new job if you can. Being around an ex who you care about who doesn't feel the same way is toxic and bad for your emotional well-being. As hard as it is to accept, he is free to fuck whomever he likes, whenever he likes.
20
My suggestion is that the whole living arrangement is unhealthy.
EAO is not just living in the same place as his ex, but sleeping in the same fucking bed! Is there any surprise here that he's entertaining hope that the relationship may pick up again?
My advice? GTFO and get on with your life (GTFOAGOWYL?). Go stay with friends, like 1 says. Or go home to parents, if that's an option. Or join the foreign legion. Or whatever.
@5 I dunno. I think the ex was trying to be a good guy here (knowing EAO's precarious financial situation). My guess is that by avoiding the question of how future relationships would be handled, the ex didn't want to give an answer that would push EAO even further off the deep end and was probably trying to spare EAO further heartache.
What would have been the right thing for the ex to do? Bite the bullet. Ending the relationship means ending the relationship: someone moves out; people move on with their sex lives. I think the ex came at it with the best of intentions, but has ended up doing more harm than good.
Rip that fucking band-aid off.
EAO is not just living in the same place as his ex, but sleeping in the same fucking bed! Is there any surprise here that he's entertaining hope that the relationship may pick up again?
My advice? GTFO and get on with your life (GTFOAGOWYL?). Go stay with friends, like 1 says. Or go home to parents, if that's an option. Or join the foreign legion. Or whatever.
@5 I dunno. I think the ex was trying to be a good guy here (knowing EAO's precarious financial situation). My guess is that by avoiding the question of how future relationships would be handled, the ex didn't want to give an answer that would push EAO even further off the deep end and was probably trying to spare EAO further heartache.
What would have been the right thing for the ex to do? Bite the bullet. Ending the relationship means ending the relationship: someone moves out; people move on with their sex lives. I think the ex came at it with the best of intentions, but has ended up doing more harm than good.
Rip that fucking band-aid off.
22
I can only imagine the conversations the boyfriend is having. "I DID dump him, dammit" "And he's still sleeping in your bed?" "He won't leave" "Change the fucking locks" "He never goes out of the house". "Christ, that is a problem" "And he still wants sex!" "I guess you can't kill him; can you humiliate him until he can't take it anymore?" "Good idea".
23
LOL at Fnarf.
Not only is it none of EAO's business what his ex is doing any more, it is obvious he's still pining for the ex, and hoping to get back together (still sleeping in the same bed???, thinking the ex owes him some consideration, etc). Not going to happen.
If the orgy happened a week after the breakup, I have news for you. He was probably planning it before the breakup.
Not only is it none of EAO's business what his ex is doing any more, it is obvious he's still pining for the ex, and hoping to get back together (still sleeping in the same bed???, thinking the ex owes him some consideration, etc). Not going to happen.
If the orgy happened a week after the breakup, I have news for you. He was probably planning it before the breakup.
24
Moral of the story: Don't dump someone you're living with who lacks the means to immediately move out.
Seriously though, I think the living situation warranted a little additional sensitivity. Sure, he's free to fuck whoever he likes now. But an orgy? With mutual friends? A week after the breakup, still sleeping in the same bed, and with the ex too broke to move out?
More I think about it, the more I think fnarf @22 has this pegged...this is not just cruel, but caluculated.
Seriously though, I think the living situation warranted a little additional sensitivity. Sure, he's free to fuck whoever he likes now. But an orgy? With mutual friends? A week after the breakup, still sleeping in the same bed, and with the ex too broke to move out?
More I think about it, the more I think fnarf @22 has this pegged...this is not just cruel, but caluculated.
25
Oh Jeez, schmacky, I've been the dumper and the dumpee and my sympathies are totally with the dumper: the guy hasn't been employed in a year, is depressed, is sleeping in the same bed, won't move out, and is making ALL KINDS of emotional demands. Sounds like the dumper was trying to be kind, even patient, and dumpee keeps asking for more and expecting more. So dumper got fed up. Can you blame him for wanting his life back? I wonder if the orgy wasn't fictional---I'd love to know if dumper made it up to chase off dumpee....
26
I love how people can be so casual about the feelings of others. I bet lots of you would just love to be broken up about a relationship only to have a total stranger tell you to get over youself you "drama queen". Yeah, how dare he have, you know, feelings.
Dan is right, EAO's ex is his ex and therefore has the right to do whatever he pleases. However to suggest that it's drama queeny to be upset that one week after breaking up with you the ex goes to an orgy with a mutual friend is absurd. For fucks sake, have none of you ever been dumped and felt shitty about it? If there's something inherently wrong with being sensitive just after a breakup then you might as well condemn the whole damn world.
Your first mistake EAO, which I'm sure your aware of, was living with the ex. Trying to hold on to your contact with the ex is natural but really counter-productive and it will only cause you pain, particularly if he is so over you that he's up for romps with multiple others including mutual friends. You say you can't avoid him. Unless you work together I would encourage you to re-examine that idea. Are you sure you can't arrange to meet mutual friends without him, explaining your reasons? Distance is needed now, and if it means not getting to meet up with the whole gang but maybe just some individually perhaps that's a step you need to take. Good luck!
Dan is right, EAO's ex is his ex and therefore has the right to do whatever he pleases. However to suggest that it's drama queeny to be upset that one week after breaking up with you the ex goes to an orgy with a mutual friend is absurd. For fucks sake, have none of you ever been dumped and felt shitty about it? If there's something inherently wrong with being sensitive just after a breakup then you might as well condemn the whole damn world.
Your first mistake EAO, which I'm sure your aware of, was living with the ex. Trying to hold on to your contact with the ex is natural but really counter-productive and it will only cause you pain, particularly if he is so over you that he's up for romps with multiple others including mutual friends. You say you can't avoid him. Unless you work together I would encourage you to re-examine that idea. Are you sure you can't arrange to meet mutual friends without him, explaining your reasons? Distance is needed now, and if it means not getting to meet up with the whole gang but maybe just some individually perhaps that's a step you need to take. Good luck!
27
was in this situation at 21. not the orgy or unemployed part. but the still living with my ex and sleeping in the same bed and occasionally having sex for almost 3 months after he had broken up with me. Only later found out that he was seeing another girl during this. I can't defend it, but, looking back, that was one of the worst decisions i ever made, and continuing to live there eroded my entire self more than the break-up ever could have. Get out now. And stop trying to communicate, he doesn't want to talk. You will not encounter him if you choose not to, you just won't. Get away, and maybe you get back some dignity.
28
At the end of a serious relationship, the first rule is that the dumper should do no more harm to the dumpee (or as little as possible). After all, the persons hopes, dreams, and aspirations have just been completely crushed. No reason to make it worse.
So, having an orgy with MUTUAL friends a week after the relationship ended, and then telling the ex about it a couple of weeks later, is pretty bad. Now, having an orgy after a breakup isn't bad (so long as everything is safe), but having a delightful time with mutual friends is a little bit tricky - and if the delightful time includes an orgy, that's not so good. Also, telling the ex about said orgy was probably a bad idea. He should have lied about it, and worked with the ex to set down some ground rules. . .
On the other hand, it is perfectly possible the ex-bf told EXO about the orgy to convince her to move out of his place. After all, it was his place, so, he now has to support his ex-girlfriend financially, can't have dates over, and now she's bugging him about the rules?
So, having an orgy with MUTUAL friends a week after the relationship ended, and then telling the ex about it a couple of weeks later, is pretty bad. Now, having an orgy after a breakup isn't bad (so long as everything is safe), but having a delightful time with mutual friends is a little bit tricky - and if the delightful time includes an orgy, that's not so good. Also, telling the ex about said orgy was probably a bad idea. He should have lied about it, and worked with the ex to set down some ground rules. . .
On the other hand, it is perfectly possible the ex-bf told EXO about the orgy to convince her to move out of his place. After all, it was his place, so, he now has to support his ex-girlfriend financially, can't have dates over, and now she's bugging him about the rules?
30
blah blah blah blah blah blah....
Dumper only told dumpee about the orgy because dumpee was pressing dumper to talk about it and demanding honesty. Dumpee sounds like a real tool. At least dumper didn't tell dumpee how their mutual friends don't like him and were waiting for them to break up (otherwise, um, mightn't they have all had an orgy together before then?).
Dumper only told dumpee about the orgy because dumpee was pressing dumper to talk about it and demanding honesty. Dumpee sounds like a real tool. At least dumper didn't tell dumpee how their mutual friends don't like him and were waiting for them to break up (otherwise, um, mightn't they have all had an orgy together before then?).
31
As a not so great consolation prize, it should be noted that sometimes orgies and wanton sex IS a persons way to grieve. Sometimes you need to take a little action to leverage the emotional distance you need to heal from a break up. Perhaps your ex fucked a huge room of dudes because he was having trouble getting over you. just saying.
32
#31, it struck me as odd that dumpee considers dumper's participation in an orgy evidence that "he was able to move on so quickly, without going through any apparent grief".
Again, tool.
Again, tool.
33
@25 and others: The dumpee may be a drama queen/tool...sure. But you're dwelling in theory, extrapolating from the facts to get there. I'm looking at the actual facts themselves: Dumper drops dumpee while dumpee is unemployed and unable to move out; dumper fucks a bunch of dumpee's friends a week later. The poor bastard is still living there, still hurting, still sleeping in the same fucking bed. Even bitchy drama queens don't deserve to have their noses rubbed in it like this (and yeah, I know the dumpee pressed the dumper to admit he'd fucked his friends. But that still isn't a defense for, you know, fucking his friends).
Sympathy is warranted. Dumper, along with the mutual friends, while perhaps having cause to act like assholes, have indisputably acted like assholes.
Sympathy is warranted. Dumper, along with the mutual friends, while perhaps having cause to act like assholes, have indisputably acted like assholes.
34
"I learned from him (and boy did he not want to tell me!) . . ."
Well, if you press hard enough, you can get any information out of anybody, but if you're really broken up, i.e., seriously not together any longer, even a dumpee has to have the intelligence not to press for information that might turn out to make him/her feel even worse; or s/he has to resist the urge to be manipulative. I've been dumped, and I didn't enjoy it one bit, but once I was dumped I didn't go back and nag and whine and beg and plead to get information out of my ex about what he'd been up to that was fun and exciting since he'd dumped me. "And boy did he not want to tell me!" tells me that EAO was not taking the high road, or the intelligent one, toward recuperation from dumping.
Well, if you press hard enough, you can get any information out of anybody, but if you're really broken up, i.e., seriously not together any longer, even a dumpee has to have the intelligence not to press for information that might turn out to make him/her feel even worse; or s/he has to resist the urge to be manipulative. I've been dumped, and I didn't enjoy it one bit, but once I was dumped I didn't go back and nag and whine and beg and plead to get information out of my ex about what he'd been up to that was fun and exciting since he'd dumped me. "And boy did he not want to tell me!" tells me that EAO was not taking the high road, or the intelligent one, toward recuperation from dumping.
35
This all goes back to one thing.
The advice asker really, really, really needs to move out.
For many reasons.
The advice asker really, really, really needs to move out.
For many reasons.
36
I'm with Lynx.
There's got to be some real separation and distance after a breakup. No living together, no hanging out, no asking about the ex's sex life. Some people can be friends again after some time apart and some people can't, but the time apart is crucial to let both parties move along and heal.
There's got to be some real separation and distance after a breakup. No living together, no hanging out, no asking about the ex's sex life. Some people can be friends again after some time apart and some people can't, but the time apart is crucial to let both parties move along and heal.
37
Both of these people sound cuh-razy. Boyfriend #1 for thinking it would be okay to live together and sleep in the same bed (?!) with his ex after dumping him, and for offering to tell the ex "anything he wanted to know." (Not to mention following through on it!) He should have just said he considered them both free to date/sleep with other people, but would not be giving specifics. Boyfriend #2 for expecting sex/intimacy from his ex, and for badgering him about info that wasn't gonna do him any good. Also, "we have many friends in common and hang out regularly." No, no! Don't hang out regularly! That's the worst thing you could do!
38
@34 I read it as EAO trying to have a discussion of boundaries and expectations. EAO tried to have this conversation earlier, and the ex said "if you want to know anything, all you have to do is ask." So I can see why the orgy was quite a shock--would've been lessened if the ex was willing to have that honest conversation earlier.
39
They seriously couldn't buy an air mattress and put it on the floor?
Most of the letter reads like a countdown to a drama explosion. Sleeping in the same bed with your self-involved emo ex? Orgies with mutual friends right after a breakup? Nagging and demanding "honesty" from the guy who dumped you? "Giving in" and revealing the orgy to the ex? The drama bomb explodes!!!!
Both of these people are nothing but drama. I feel sorry for both their future partners. What a bunch of unnecessary nonsense.
Most of the letter reads like a countdown to a drama explosion. Sleeping in the same bed with your self-involved emo ex? Orgies with mutual friends right after a breakup? Nagging and demanding "honesty" from the guy who dumped you? "Giving in" and revealing the orgy to the ex? The drama bomb explodes!!!!
Both of these people are nothing but drama. I feel sorry for both their future partners. What a bunch of unnecessary nonsense.
40
I dunno. Wanton sex, FWBs, orgies...these are all parts of the healing process for many many people, especially if the relationship was relatively long term (and 2 years is). The orgy was with friends. Friends that the dumper (and possibly even the dumpee) had been wanting to fuck for awhile, but friends nonetheless.
Dumpee is being an emotional dipshit. The relationship broke up, and then he became clingy. After that, Dumpee wanted FWB sex (which you shouldn't with the ex you're currently trying to get over) in an attempt to hold on to Dumper. When Dumper made the move to get on with his life, Dumpee threw a possessive fit.
It's not like Dumper had an orgy while Dumpee was even in the same town! It's not like Dumper wanted to tell Dumpee about the sex and rub his face in it. Dumpee pressed, and got what he wanted: a reason to be royally pissed off. Part of Dumpee's own grieving process.
Why Dumpee had to write to an advice columnist about his personal dramatic grieving process, I don't understand.
My advice to Dumper: RUN. RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Dumpee will be psycho for a while [even if he is a good guy when not in severe depression mode].
Dumpee is being an emotional dipshit. The relationship broke up, and then he became clingy. After that, Dumpee wanted FWB sex (which you shouldn't with the ex you're currently trying to get over) in an attempt to hold on to Dumper. When Dumper made the move to get on with his life, Dumpee threw a possessive fit.
It's not like Dumper had an orgy while Dumpee was even in the same town! It's not like Dumper wanted to tell Dumpee about the sex and rub his face in it. Dumpee pressed, and got what he wanted: a reason to be royally pissed off. Part of Dumpee's own grieving process.
Why Dumpee had to write to an advice columnist about his personal dramatic grieving process, I don't understand.
My advice to Dumper: RUN. RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Dumpee will be psycho for a while [even if he is a good guy when not in severe depression mode].
42
just another day in gommorah.
the drama and chaos come with the deviant perverted lifestyle.
enjoy!
the drama and chaos come with the deviant perverted lifestyle.
enjoy!
44
Thank You 33.
The whole fucking friends (be it at an orgy or what ever) is inexcusable, especially if your still living together, regardless if you ex is a whiney bitchy depressed looser. And a week after the break up is just salt and piss in the wound. Plus the fact he didn't keep his mouth welded shut about it (but honestly, dumpee would have found out from the friends eventually, it always comes out).
Now if dumpee had gotten the hell out of there as soon as he could, and dumper had an orgy with non-mutual-friends, then dumpee wouldn't have any legitimate complaint. But as it stands, he damn well does, even if he made some big fucking mistakes himself.
The whole fucking friends (be it at an orgy or what ever) is inexcusable, especially if your still living together, regardless if you ex is a whiney bitchy depressed looser. And a week after the break up is just salt and piss in the wound. Plus the fact he didn't keep his mouth welded shut about it (but honestly, dumpee would have found out from the friends eventually, it always comes out).
Now if dumpee had gotten the hell out of there as soon as he could, and dumper had an orgy with non-mutual-friends, then dumpee wouldn't have any legitimate complaint. But as it stands, he damn well does, even if he made some big fucking mistakes himself.
46
Wow, your ex is an asssssssshole. Yeah, Dan is right, he is no longer beholden to you and can do whatever he wants. But what he did was still a total dick move and you deserve some basic respect - ex or not. You don't suddenly become a person w/o feelings or history simply because you break up.
Fuck that asshole, gtfo, and never talk to him/her again.
Fuck that asshole, gtfo, and never talk to him/her again.
47
And fuck ya'll who call him a winey drama queen. You try not feeling anything when you find out your ex is having hot orgy sex a week after the break up while your sitting at home by yourself. You'd probably be pretty hurt and even jealous (in a "why am I not the one having the orgy!?" kinda way, not the "how dare he fuck other people" way).
48
I like your advice Dan. But I think it's prudent to mention that it's perfectly acceptable for her feelings to be hurt. Afterall, her friends and her ex all shared a very memorable and unique experience without her - immediately after the breakup. Naturally this would have intense emotional consequences.
Goal number 1 for her should be to move out and move on. Cutting off communication for the time being if necessary (and sounds like it may be).
Goal number 1 for her should be to move out and move on. Cutting off communication for the time being if necessary (and sounds like it may be).
49
I don't get the people who are all saying "clearly the ex was over him that's why he rushed out and had an orgy." It's possible to have non-romantic sex, y'all. After I was dumped and was heartbroken I went out and had sex like crazy, and actually doing it with friends was nice since it was sort of safe, wasn't going to turn into dating, etc. Eesh, prudes who think "oh no once you dump your bf you have to respectfully refrain from having sex for months." Please.
50
@49: yeah. totally.
this guy's still a jerk, though. the dumpee's a jerk for being hurt that he went out and had sex--the dumper was kind of a dick for doing it with a bunch of mutual friends.
personally, i'd feel left out :P
this guy's still a jerk, though. the dumpee's a jerk for being hurt that he went out and had sex--the dumper was kind of a dick for doing it with a bunch of mutual friends.
personally, i'd feel left out :P
51
@49 No one is saying you have to refrain from having sex for months. But I am definitely saying refrain from having an orgy with your mutual friends a week later.
52
@51 Do you know if Miss Manners has a set limitation on this? "It is proper etiquette to wait at least two months before engaging in group erotic festivities with mutual friends."
53
I don't think anyone fails to understand why EAO is hurt and upset. What people are saying is that it's no longer his place to freak out about it to his ex. Moving out was a good idea; clearly, they have issues with boundaries. But doing it in a big dramatic fashion and then going running to Dan hoping Dan will help crap on the ex for being a Big Bad MFA - THAT's the drama queeny part.
56
Schmacky @33, here are the facts I draw from the same letter: two have been a couple for 24 months. Letter Writer has been unemployed and depressed for half that time. Dumper says it's over (after 12 mos of living with unemployed depressed boyfriend), LW tries to create rules around that, while hoping that by hanging around he can still wangle a way back into Dumper's heart, since after all they still share the same bed. Maybe he can even get some!
Now it's a little shy of a month later and he DRAGS IT OUT of the guy that he had recreational canoodling with mutual friends. And he's got the nerve to be outraged by what he pushed the guy into telling him.
Holy cow! Not tolerable to have someone you're basically letting hang around until he gets onto his feet tell you what you can do when he's not even in town, not tolerable by a long shot. I tried to imagine a girl pulling this with a guy: we'd all be rolling our eyes.
That said, as an ex-dumpee I do have sympathy. But the poor boy needs to use this as his push to move on. (I have an old Gloria Gaynor song he might find helpful....)
Now it's a little shy of a month later and he DRAGS IT OUT of the guy that he had recreational canoodling with mutual friends. And he's got the nerve to be outraged by what he pushed the guy into telling him.
Holy cow! Not tolerable to have someone you're basically letting hang around until he gets onto his feet tell you what you can do when he's not even in town, not tolerable by a long shot. I tried to imagine a girl pulling this with a guy: we'd all be rolling our eyes.
That said, as an ex-dumpee I do have sympathy. But the poor boy needs to use this as his push to move on. (I have an old Gloria Gaynor song he might find helpful....)
57
Seriously people, the letter is from a gay man:
"Living with my ex was tough, since my status was downgraded from boyfriend to roommate, even though we were still sharing the same bed."
MY status, he is referring to how he used to be a boyfriend, as in the writer is male. So no more of this him/her business ok.
"Living with my ex was tough, since my status was downgraded from boyfriend to roommate, even though we were still sharing the same bed."
MY status, he is referring to how he used to be a boyfriend, as in the writer is male. So no more of this him/her business ok.
58
That situation is seriously dramarific. EAO is emotionally unstable, which he admits himself, but that is leading him to make terrible decisions like sleeping in the same bed as his ex. His ex is kind of a jerk for leading him on. I'm imagining that the orgy was planned in advance and their mutual friends insisted that he break up with EAO beforehand and that he was pretty much stringing EAO along until his hand was forced.
That said, the best thing is for EAO to distance himself from his ex both emotionally and physically. Oh, and don't jump into another relationship right away. Gain financial and emotional stability before getting back into the dating scene.
That said, the best thing is for EAO to distance himself from his ex both emotionally and physically. Oh, and don't jump into another relationship right away. Gain financial and emotional stability before getting back into the dating scene.
59
I agree with 45/50(post).
@42: Your rhyme(ing)is weak.
Ex DJ/talking frog/12 step
Recovery good/Attention fine/Conceit Devine
@42: Your rhyme(ing)is weak.
Ex DJ/talking frog/12 step
Recovery good/Attention fine/Conceit Devine
60
Nice catch there @57. Though I really wish (and I've said this before) that all LW's would clearly establish gender and any other potentially relevant details at the outset of the question. It's always weird reading those first few sentences/paragraphs and trying to read into it to establish the appropriate context. And just FYI -- I've known a couple crazy women in my day who were more than capable of this sort of drama (in fact I was pretty certain it WAS a girl until everyone started saying otherwise. Though I've certainly never been invited to any orgies by any of those crazy women. Shit, I've never been invited to any orgies at all. Maybe I need new friends.)
61
Lord, what a trainwreck.
I'm going to refrain from judging the dumpee's actions, because I've been the dumpee myself and it tends to impair one's common sense... no shame in that. What I am going to say is get the hell out of that apartment. Beg, steal, borrow, couch-surf, impose upon your family, but get out now. Neither your ex nor your mutual friends are worth one second more of your time and attention. Wash those men out of your hair.
As for the dumper - what an asshole. Trying to both be the sweet, caring friend and roommate to an ex and celebrate your freedom from him at the same time is NOT a good look. Did he honestly expect the guy to transition smoothly into being a sexless cuddle toy and kept man of a roommate? Either he enjoys having someone moping over him 24/7 or he is tragically unable to stand up and actually say, "Sorry, we're over, I need you to find another place to stay by next week." And either way, he is terrible.
Anyway, LW, things will get better only once you quit living with and hanging out with your ex. GTFO out of his life, since he doesn't have the common decency to get out of yours.
I'm going to refrain from judging the dumpee's actions, because I've been the dumpee myself and it tends to impair one's common sense... no shame in that. What I am going to say is get the hell out of that apartment. Beg, steal, borrow, couch-surf, impose upon your family, but get out now. Neither your ex nor your mutual friends are worth one second more of your time and attention. Wash those men out of your hair.
As for the dumper - what an asshole. Trying to both be the sweet, caring friend and roommate to an ex and celebrate your freedom from him at the same time is NOT a good look. Did he honestly expect the guy to transition smoothly into being a sexless cuddle toy and kept man of a roommate? Either he enjoys having someone moping over him 24/7 or he is tragically unable to stand up and actually say, "Sorry, we're over, I need you to find another place to stay by next week." And either way, he is terrible.
Anyway, LW, things will get better only once you quit living with and hanging out with your ex. GTFO out of his life, since he doesn't have the common decency to get out of yours.
62
@45 made me laugh.
I am always amazed at people who think that being able to have sex immediately after a breakup equals not caring and being completely over it. I love my bf dearly, but if we broke up today...I'd be out tonight looking for my old booty call. That's just the way I am, and I'm sure there are plenty of people out there like me. That said, I think the reason post-breakup sex with another person is so bothersome is actually about ego, not about believing the other person doesn't care. We SAY it's about feeling like the other person doesn't care, but what we're REALLY feeling is, "How can they just go out and be with other people like that?! They must not think I'm so awesome!"
That said, I think it's totally fine to FREAK THE FUCK OUT after a breakup for ANY REASON YOU WANT--but that freak out should be taken to FRIENDS, not the EX. Talk unwarranted shit, cry, say you want to get back together with him, say you hate his guts, say he's being a jerk and HOW COULD HE TREAT ME THIS WAY--but say it all to friends. After being the queen of "break up and get back together fifty times with the same person", I'm a firm believer that after a breakup, all bets should be called off on having any kind of relationship with the ex--friendship or otherwise--until it's been at least a year, preferrably two. Feelings are just too confused right after a breakup. P.S. Love your screen name, 61.
I am always amazed at people who think that being able to have sex immediately after a breakup equals not caring and being completely over it. I love my bf dearly, but if we broke up today...I'd be out tonight looking for my old booty call. That's just the way I am, and I'm sure there are plenty of people out there like me. That said, I think the reason post-breakup sex with another person is so bothersome is actually about ego, not about believing the other person doesn't care. We SAY it's about feeling like the other person doesn't care, but what we're REALLY feeling is, "How can they just go out and be with other people like that?! They must not think I'm so awesome!"
That said, I think it's totally fine to FREAK THE FUCK OUT after a breakup for ANY REASON YOU WANT--but that freak out should be taken to FRIENDS, not the EX. Talk unwarranted shit, cry, say you want to get back together with him, say you hate his guts, say he's being a jerk and HOW COULD HE TREAT ME THIS WAY--but say it all to friends. After being the queen of "break up and get back together fifty times with the same person", I'm a firm believer that after a breakup, all bets should be called off on having any kind of relationship with the ex--friendship or otherwise--until it's been at least a year, preferrably two. Feelings are just too confused right after a breakup. P.S. Love your screen name, 61.
63
On the one hand I do have sympathy for Dumpee in that I've seen people do some pretty shitty things to their Dumpees because, they, the Dumpers, are way ahead on the Ready To Move On curve. (They have, after all, spent ages thinking about this, and when they do the Dumping they've already made the adjustment that the Dumpee is now starting.) They then get all pissy because the Dumpee isn't magically in the same emotional place INSTANTLY that they are after months of hard (secret) work.
64
But...
Dumpee's insistence on prying the information out and then whinging about its contents is ludicrous. Can you imagine that in a physical context?
"Hit me." / "Don't want to."
Hit me!" / "Really don't want to."
Hit me!!!!!!!" / "Really, really don't want to, and you know why."
Hit me!!!!!!!" / "Really, really don't want to, because you might get hurt."
"I insist." / "Okay, fine." (Thump!)
"YOU HIT ME! THAT HURT! YOU'RE A COMPLETE BASTARD AND I'M GONNA WRITE DAN SAVAGE ABOUT YOU!"
Dumpee's insistence on prying the information out and then whinging about its contents is ludicrous. Can you imagine that in a physical context?
"Hit me." / "Don't want to."
Hit me!" / "Really don't want to."
Hit me!!!!!!!" / "Really, really don't want to, and you know why."
Hit me!!!!!!!" / "Really, really don't want to, because you might get hurt."
"I insist." / "Okay, fine." (Thump!)
"YOU HIT ME! THAT HURT! YOU'RE A COMPLETE BASTARD AND I'M GONNA WRITE DAN SAVAGE ABOUT YOU!"
66
@63 Of course we should have sympathy for the dumpee. But going out and having an orgy one week after the breakup doesn't necessarily equal out to the dumper believing that the dumpee should be in the same emotional place. He gets to be upset. People get upset. He just doesn't get to demand that the dumper stay out of sexual situations after the breakup any more than the dumper gets to implicity "demand" that the dumpee move on and get into sexual situations of his own. The dumper moving on is not any indication of how that dumper thinks the dumpee should be feeling about the situation or where he should be on the "getting over it" scale.
Relationships are a bitch sometimes. Fact of life.
Relationships are a bitch sometimes. Fact of life.
67
two "facts" that seem to have escaped most. 1) as Lola @57 points out EAO is a man. and B) "I got very upset and angry, left, and now I'm living with a friend." EAO has left the conjugal bed (and apartment).
68
EAO should have moved to the couch, except that it's obvious he was hoping his presence in the ex-boyfriend's bed would eventually dissolve the "ex" status. It sounds like the ex was ready to move on - and did.
EOA needs to realize that the ex made it very clear he's no longer interested (or he wouldn't have revealed the orgy) so it's time to go through the rest of his grieving process. Play sappy music, eat cheesecake, cry to friends. Then up the exercise quota, get out in public, and get on with life.
EOA needs to realize that the ex made it very clear he's no longer interested (or he wouldn't have revealed the orgy) so it's time to go through the rest of his grieving process. Play sappy music, eat cheesecake, cry to friends. Then up the exercise quota, get out in public, and get on with life.
69
@60, why is gender a relevant detail in this case? Is this any less or more of a trainwreck if you know the exact genders of the people having all the sex?
70
People who think that all feelings of attachment and commitment snap back like a vacuum cleaner cord the moment someone breaks up with you have never had any feelings of attachment and commitment. (At the same time, the advice is correct: Stop asking, get out, take whatever time you need to retract and rebalance.)
71
I think that the fact that the ex was able, in the space of a very short time, move onto an orgy with friends should have told everyone that this was a guy relationship. Us breeders have to work waaaaaaaaay harder and over a longer period of time over more barren soil to raise that sort of crop.
73
Why is that when a couple breaks up, the one who has been preparing and wanting the breakup is confused by the others hurt feelings and anger? Are there so many heartless people out there? Breakups are brutal, and when you are the one that wants to stay together, its even harder. Now with that said EAO get out and move on. Realize the jerk never really cared for you if he treats you that way!!
74
Dear EAO, and any other Dumpees,
Do not ask questions you do not want to know the answer to...ESPECIALLY if you are asking your ex about sexual/dating stuff. You think you want to know. But you don't! You really really don't! The more you know the more you know, and the more it hurts and you feel hurt, jealous, angry and betrayed. But here's the deal, you don't get to be a whiney pissy bitch about it because YOU OPENED THAT CAN OF WORMS by asking.
Save yourself some grief. Move out. Move on. Heal.
Do not ask questions you do not want to know the answer to...ESPECIALLY if you are asking your ex about sexual/dating stuff. You think you want to know. But you don't! You really really don't! The more you know the more you know, and the more it hurts and you feel hurt, jealous, angry and betrayed. But here's the deal, you don't get to be a whiney pissy bitch about it because YOU OPENED THAT CAN OF WORMS by asking.
Save yourself some grief. Move out. Move on. Heal.
75
64 and 74 nailed it - you don't get to whine about information that you had to pry out of someone.
Why is it so much worse that the orgy was with mutual friends? I don't get why that upsets so many posters. I thought the "you're not allowed to be my friend and have anything to do with my ex" rule only applied to those under 15.
Why is it so much worse that the orgy was with mutual friends? I don't get why that upsets so many posters. I thought the "you're not allowed to be my friend and have anything to do with my ex" rule only applied to those under 15.
76
No sympathy of EAO. Guy sounds like a total loser. Leaching off the productive boyfriend until he got sick of it. Emotionally manipulative and demanding, trying to set rules on a relationship that ended, when he remains in the exes' house as a goddamn accommodation until he can get his act together and find somewhere else to live, which as we learn was quite easy for him to do, once he got furious because he was told the informaiton he didn't want to hear but pried out anyway.
Get some counseling, you fucking tool. And before your next relationship starts, save enough form your next job to have a way out if things go sideways again.
Get some counseling, you fucking tool. And before your next relationship starts, save enough form your next job to have a way out if things go sideways again.
77
Seriously, I think people are being a little harsh on the Ex, cause well if you ask a question you get an answer.... isn't that the way it works in an ideal world???
I mean it could be considered a rather dick move, but well yeah neither of them owe each other anything, they broke up!!! Everyone owes each other honesty, which he gave, but other then that there's not much else.
Plus why is everyone calling him a her, EAO is a guy! It's in the post!!
I mean it could be considered a rather dick move, but well yeah neither of them owe each other anything, they broke up!!! Everyone owes each other honesty, which he gave, but other then that there's not much else.
Plus why is everyone calling him a her, EAO is a guy! It's in the post!!
78
And here's a little more reality check for EAO: You were downgraded further than you think. A roommate pays his share of rent and utilities. You're post-breakup status wasn't "roommate". It was "unwanted houseguest grudgingly permitted to stay temporarily out of pity".
And EAO, since you seem to lack the smidgen of common sense to answer your own questions about what a break-up means, let me help you out:
1. He has the right to bring dates home. It's his place. It would be a bit insensitive of him to do that right away (as well as unwise - can you imagine going to a guy's home at the end of your first or second date to see some teary-eyed skulking guy and be told "That's my ex who I just broke up with and I am letting him stay with me until he finds a job" ? I would run, fast. If he is that insesntive, he should give you warning of when he is bringing a date home so you can go hang with friends or otherwise get out of the way.
However, EAO, you don't get to bring dates home. It's not your house. It's his. And wtf would you be doing dating anyway. You're a mess. Make yourself better first. Otherwise you don't really have anything to offer someone else. Get a job, get some counseling, get your own place, get through your grief about this breakup. Only then should you consider dating.
2. No, you're not going to still have sex with each other. He broke up with you, dumbass. That means no more sex. Get your ass on the couch and have some self-respect.
3. Yes, each of you can have sex with others. You're not a couple anymore. What he does in this regard is no longer your business, and vice versa.
And EAO, since you seem to lack the smidgen of common sense to answer your own questions about what a break-up means, let me help you out:
1. He has the right to bring dates home. It's his place. It would be a bit insensitive of him to do that right away (as well as unwise - can you imagine going to a guy's home at the end of your first or second date to see some teary-eyed skulking guy and be told "That's my ex who I just broke up with and I am letting him stay with me until he finds a job" ? I would run, fast. If he is that insesntive, he should give you warning of when he is bringing a date home so you can go hang with friends or otherwise get out of the way.
However, EAO, you don't get to bring dates home. It's not your house. It's his. And wtf would you be doing dating anyway. You're a mess. Make yourself better first. Otherwise you don't really have anything to offer someone else. Get a job, get some counseling, get your own place, get through your grief about this breakup. Only then should you consider dating.
2. No, you're not going to still have sex with each other. He broke up with you, dumbass. That means no more sex. Get your ass on the couch and have some self-respect.
3. Yes, each of you can have sex with others. You're not a couple anymore. What he does in this regard is no longer your business, and vice versa.
79
I don't know why some people are jumping all over the ex here for the lack of time between dumping and fucking. The best advice I received after my last big break up was, "You just need to fuck it out."
It totally helps with the healing process.
I would suggest that EAO go fuck someone else too, but I'm afraid he might latch on to this new person.
It totally helps with the healing process.
I would suggest that EAO go fuck someone else too, but I'm afraid he might latch on to this new person.
80
clearly the best response she could have given (since she was mad) was take a second, gather her thoughts, and let loose with, oh OK, that's great then, because I was spending that weekend fucking my brother and his boyfriend in the woods.
At that point you establish that either's claims about their post-breakup sexual escapades are exaggerated and untrustworthy and you don't get yourself bent out of shape about them. Then you move out.
At that point you establish that either's claims about their post-breakup sexual escapades are exaggerated and untrustworthy and you don't get yourself bent out of shape about them. Then you move out.
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