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Tuesday, August 31, 2010

Was Last Night's Fatal Shooting by a Cop an Excessive Use of Force?

Posted by on Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:54 PM

An incident last night in the Denny regrade, in which an officer fatally shot a man who refused to comply with a police officer's orders, is raising questions in comments and around the city—was this an excessive use of force? Couldn't the officer have used a non-lethal weapon to subdue this man instead? Does the Seattle Police Department need more de-escalation training?

Here are the basic facts of yesterday's shooting, as reported by the the SPD Blotter:

The officer noted that the man was holding a knife [and was whittling, according to other reports]. The officer thought that this was unusual and potentially dangerous behavior. The officer stopped his patrol car and made contact with the man. The officer instructed the man to put the knife down. The man refused and stood up to face the officer with the knife still in hand. The officer again ordered the man to put the knife down. When the man refused the officer fired several shots, fatally striking the man.

Seattlepi.com has more details.

It's worth noting that before John Diaz was sworn in as the police chief on August 16, the Seattle City Council presented him with a four-point letter highlighting the areas where the Seattle Police Department needs to make dramatic improvements. One of areas was in the department's training and emphasis of de-escalation techniques.

The council wrote that Diaz needed to "quickly develop and fully implement the most effective training available for minimizing and de-escalating conflict in encounters between officers and civilians."

How is that coming along?

"I know that's being worked on," says Sgt. Sean Whitcomb, a spokesman for SPD, referring to the departments plans to invest in more de-escalation training for officers. But he also notes that SPD training is all de-escalation based at heart. "Officers are trained to enter into tense and possibly violent situations, gain control, and diffuse that possibility of violence," he says. "Sometimes force is necessary to do that."

The SPD isn't commenting on how far away the man was from the officer when he was shot, or whether or not the officer had non-lethal weapons like pepper spray or a Taser at his disposal.

And from what we know, the officer appears to have followed the correct protocol.

According to a 2001 SPD's report on officers' use of force (.pdf), the officer wouldn't have been trained to respond to a knife with these non-lethal weapons (like pepper spray or a Taser). The report states, "It is recommended that officers meet force with superior force," meaning officers are trained, if they see person armed with a lethal weapon—like a knife—to reach for their guns. However, the report states that officers are also "trained to call for back up in use of force situations. This is done to prevent an incident from escalating to the point that a greater use of force may be required."

Given these facts, once the officer spotted the man holding a knife, he knew that he might have to employ his gun. But the man was whittling when the officer contacted him—not threatening anyone or posing any immediate danger—meaning the officer wasn't diffusing a violent situation. Why, then, didn't he wait for for backup—as the reports suggests officers should be trained to do?

It's impossible to know exactly what happened in this situation, and SPD isn't commenting further at this point. However, situations like this—minor incidents that escalate to death—would raise fewer questions if SPD showed the public that it was committed to investing in more de-escalation training, as council members urged earlier this month.

UPDATE: SPD is holding a press conference at 3:30 p.m. today to address yesterday's fatal shooting.

 

Comments (22) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
merry 1
On the face of it, a guy sitting there whittling wouldn't seem to be that much of a threat......
Posted by merry on August 31, 2010 at 1:39 PM
DOUG. 2
SPD has too many cops who are simply looking for a fight. To these officers none of us are citizens, we are all suspects.
Posted by DOUG. http://www.dougsvotersguide.com on August 31, 2010 at 1:41 PM
elenchos 3
What difference does it make that he was whittling before he was ordered to drop the knife? What if he had been knitting? Or wanking?

He wasn't shot for whittling. He was shot for what he didn't do after he stopped whittling, which was drop the knife.

Every two months The Stranger jumps up and starts asking open-ended questions about whether people with knives or even guns should be Tased or pepper sprayed by the cops. You all ought to spend the months between these incidents reading up on the subject so you wouldn't sound to naive. For example, laws have been floated around the country requiring police to try non-lethal force, and even to shoot to wound. How'd that work out? Any of them pass? How come?

I'd hate to see this blow over and you guys get interested in something else until the next shooting.
Posted by elenchos on August 31, 2010 at 1:46 PM
Will in Seattle 4
Whittlers must feel like our soldiers in Afghanistan and "training" in Iraq - targets of zealots.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on August 31, 2010 at 1:54 PM
Dougsf 5
My mind keeps going back to the idea of such a rural past-time ultimately getting someone killed by urban law enforcement. I've definately read too much Charles.
Posted by Dougsf on August 31, 2010 at 1:56 PM
seattlejenny 6
@3- the point of mentioning the whittling is that there was no reason to call backup- as cienna was implying he should have.
however, her argument makes no sense. she says that policy requires a call for backup in force situation then goes on to say that the situation was non-threatening so he should have called backup. the logic there is not really working for me.
demanding that new policy already be implemented within two weeks of new leadership is pretty illogical as well. do you really want a half-assed patch job?
Posted by seattlejenny on August 31, 2010 at 2:06 PM
7
Is Boren and Howell really considered the Denny Regrade?
Posted by bigyaz on August 31, 2010 at 2:08 PM
8
In Memoriam: The Whittler (1997-2010)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZQr9jlqz…
Posted by K on August 31, 2010 at 2:11 PM
9
Cop says he told us he was coming at him and we believe him because he and the police spokesperson says so. Most witnesess appeared to have been too far and the investigation-which will clear the officer- is not concluded, yet people already know what happened. I don't know what happened, but it certainly doesn't appear that 5 shots to the chest were justified. Guy was sitting there carving something and than he is dead. Seems from what Ive read that he wasn't threatening any one, yes he should've dropped the knife but who knows,if he was mentally I'll, a vet with PTSD, or who knows ,seems like the guy was homeless and though procedure says you can kill a dude, it doesn't mean you have to, but they'll clear him and some people will be outraged and others will say he deserved it.
Posted by SeMe on August 31, 2010 at 2:12 PM
michaelp 10
If a cop tells you to come over to him and you wave him off, and don't listen the second time he asks, you get punched in the face.

If a cop tells you to stop as you're walking towards him with a knife in your hand, you get shot.

Moral of the story: don't be a douche, and listen to law enforcement. Arguing right then and there never ends well, for you, for the officer, or for our communities.
Posted by michaelp on August 31, 2010 at 2:15 PM
Q*bert H. Humphrey 11
@10, your advice is good, but it's not very illuminating in this situation. The question is whether the guy was really walking towards the cop and hearing the cop's commands to stop and drop the knife. If he was sufficiently drunk/baked/visually-impaired/hearing-impaired and/or the cop was far enough away, he might not have been fully aware of the situation.

The guy may have stood up and took a step towards the cop before he even realized what was going on, at which point he was shot. On the other hand, he might also have stood up and walked towards the cop with knife still in hand, knowing the cop was telling him to stop. At this point, the "he didn't obey so he shouldn't have been surprised to get shot" attitude doesn't seem to be real helpful.
Posted by Q*bert H. Humphrey on August 31, 2010 at 2:23 PM
Will in Seattle 12
@10 i thought the moral was to carry an Uzi.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on August 31, 2010 at 2:26 PM
13
@10: Don't twist the facts to fit your argument. Even the officer involved doesn't say the guy was "walking towards him," as you put it. The report says:

"The man refused and stood up to face the officer with the knife still in hand. The officer again ordered the man to put the knife down. When the man refused the officer fired several shots, fatally striking the man."
Posted by bigyaz on August 31, 2010 at 2:32 PM
Free Lunch 14
It would suck to be a cop. You're basically stuck following a response protocol that makes you look like a chicken-shit pussy.
Posted by Free Lunch on August 31, 2010 at 2:57 PM
michaelp 15
@11 - And that is the perfect argument for why we should have those nifty chest cameras on police officers, especially in this city.

@13 - My bad. I thought I read that he was walking towards the officer. *eek!*
Posted by michaelp on August 31, 2010 at 3:04 PM
Max Solomon 16
"officer, it's just a whittlin' knife. look, see?"
"put the knife down sir"
"but its just a whittlin' knife. what did i do?"
"put the knife down sir"
"i didn't do anything wrong - i'm just whittlin'"
BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM
Posted by Max Solomon on August 31, 2010 at 3:11 PM
Will in Seattle 17
So, let me get this straight - it's legal to carry a loaded hunting rifle but not a whittling knife?

...

wow.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on August 31, 2010 at 3:40 PM
18
Fuck the Seattle police department. This guy had the mental capacity of an 8 year old. Alcohol dementia... How many bullets did that pig pump into his chest? Hope someone stomps on that pigs face!
Posted by Trollytrolltroll on August 31, 2010 at 3:45 PM
19
3 inch blade. Two car lengths away. Functioning of an 8 year old. This pig needs to go to prison
Posted by Trollytrolltroll on August 31, 2010 at 4:02 PM
20

Wow. Seattle cops kill a lot of people.
Posted by balmonter on August 31, 2010 at 4:22 PM
21
Whether the issue is mental illness or being hard of hearing, I am concerned that people are at risk if an officer fails to consider the possible disability status of an individual who may appear "out of sorts." Thus far, only one other commenter above mentioned the possibility that the victim was hard of hearing. I have forwarded this concern to the Seattle Commission for People with Disabilities.
Posted by Julian in Seattle on August 31, 2010 at 7:32 PM
michaelp 22
@21 - The fact remains - if a cop is out of his car yelling at you, the last thing you do is walk towards him with a knife. Put the knife down or away, but don't hold it all brandishing like (if that is what happened)
Posted by michaelp on September 1, 2010 at 9:39 AM

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