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News & ArtsTuesday, August 31, 2010
Religion Is That "Nurturing and Caring" In Your Pocket...
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:55 AM
...or are you just happy to see me, Rev. Fisher?
Police in Aliquippa and Beaver Falls have charged the Rev. Laneer Fisher with having illicit contact with the two boys while working at the Miracle Church of God in Christ in Aliquippa. Investigators say one boy, now 17, came forward in June. The teen claims Mr. Fisher caressed and kissed him and had him sit on his lap starting about two years ago. A man in his 20s has also come forward, claiming he was abused about 10 years ago. Mr. Fisher's attorney says his client vehemently denies the charges. Defense attorney Dirk Allen Goodwald says the boys "misunderstood" and could not accept "nurturing and caring" from Mr. Fisher.
People take their children to church... why?
1
Many reasons, Dan. The biggest because they want their children to bear their image, to be like them. I want my children to be better than me and have long ago surrendered the idea that I could dream better dreams than they could. They don't need my stamp of approval, just my support and acceptance.
I've said it before on SLOG, but we go to church for a beautiful, struggling child, who has finally accepted her sexual orientation but fears the response of her pastoral staff parents. That is why I take my kids to church (main reason) and the other is to meditate on the justice of God as it is presented in the Bible. I can draw warmth and nourishment without turning off my brain.
I've said it before on SLOG, but we go to church for a beautiful, struggling child, who has finally accepted her sexual orientation but fears the response of her pastoral staff parents. That is why I take my kids to church (main reason) and the other is to meditate on the justice of God as it is presented in the Bible. I can draw warmth and nourishment without turning off my brain.
4
I'm going to say something kind of out of character here, but I think all kids should be exposed to - and have a working knowledge of - religion. After all, it's something they're going to be surrounded by for the rest of their lives.
The only thing I object to is shoving dogma down their throats like it's - well - the Gospel. It clearly isn't.
The only thing I object to is shoving dogma down their throats like it's - well - the Gospel. It clearly isn't.
5
"People take their children to church... why?"
I hooked up with my first tab of acid in Sunday school, although I don't think that's why my parents took me.
Seriously, though, ignoring the religious aspect for a moment, church once played the important social function of creating and maintaining communities beyond the extended family. For many people, nothing else has stepped up in its place.
I hooked up with my first tab of acid in Sunday school, although I don't think that's why my parents took me.
Seriously, though, ignoring the religious aspect for a moment, church once played the important social function of creating and maintaining communities beyond the extended family. For many people, nothing else has stepped up in its place.
6
@4: I agree - my two kids know almost nothing about the characters and stories of the bible, and as a result, there are countless references and allusions they won't understand (e.g., Dan's Job/Lazarus reference). I'm also worried that by ignoring the bible, we're giving it an air of mystery and taboo that might actually increase their chances of becoming believers later in life.
If there was a school or camp that focused on the bible as literature, I'd send them to it.
If there was a school or camp that focused on the bible as literature, I'd send them to it.
7
@ Dan, you're welcome. I'm happy to "help" if I can.
@ Vince, thanks for always sharing your opinions, as they challenge me to see with your eyes. And, you're right about their being a lot of "bullshit".
@ Fifty-Two-Eighty, I agree. I think there is value in being educated about all religious and beliefs systems as it helps us relate to others.
Love to you all.
@ Vince, thanks for always sharing your opinions, as they challenge me to see with your eyes. And, you're right about their being a lot of "bullshit".
@ Fifty-Two-Eighty, I agree. I think there is value in being educated about all religious and beliefs systems as it helps us relate to others.
Love to you all.
8
Place where kids can learn about religions without the dogma--isn't the what the Unitarian Universalists try to do? I have a few friends that are very happy with the religious education they received from UU.
9
I went to a Catholic school in Alberta, where they are a parallel public system. In the early grades, we learned catechism, but starting in junior high, our religion classes were more about the bible as literature, comparative religion, ethics, the nature of spirituality, and so on. Some of our teachers were nuns and priests, but many were people of other faiths, or of no faith at all, and they talked about that openly. It was a useful education in spirituality, that every kid would benefit from, and wouldn't take much tinkering to take the mild Catholic bias out.
11
I'm not a PC type (see previous comments in my profile to see that I'm not worried about offending people). But I do wonder if jokes like "is that nurturing and caring in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?" are appropriate.
I don't think child rape is funny, and I know Dan doesn't either, but I feel like this topic is not yet taken seriously enough for us to be joking about it so casually. I think it's ok to joke about the Holocaust, because it is so universally understood to be gut-wrenchingly heinous and crushing to the human soul that such a thing happened. It's been decades now, and even still, you're not going to hear a Holocaust joke on Jay Leno. But you very well might hear a joke like this there, which makes me think people are not yet taking it seriously enough.
I don't think child rape is funny, and I know Dan doesn't either, but I feel like this topic is not yet taken seriously enough for us to be joking about it so casually. I think it's ok to joke about the Holocaust, because it is so universally understood to be gut-wrenchingly heinous and crushing to the human soul that such a thing happened. It's been decades now, and even still, you're not going to hear a Holocaust joke on Jay Leno. But you very well might hear a joke like this there, which makes me think people are not yet taking it seriously enough.
12
@6, I'm not sure how dedicated you are to introducing your kids to the bible and other religious texts as literature and cultural phenomena, but if you're really interested you could do it yourself. I would start by taking a class or two on religious texts at a local college. Colleges offer many great courses that introduce religious texts in a secular environment, and you can hopefully then translate what you learn in those courses into something kids will get. You could also just pick up some religious philosophy books (most likely found in the philosophy, not religion, section) and see what you can do with them.
Or you could just wait until they're in late high school and send them to these courses themselves. Many colleges will allow local high school students to take courses, maybe for credit, maybe as an audit.
Or you could just wait until they're in late high school and send them to these courses themselves. Many colleges will allow local high school students to take courses, maybe for credit, maybe as an audit.
13
seandr, you'd send your kids to a camp that focuses on the Bible as literature?
Wow, worst summer camp ever. How about a camp where the kids are all forced to sit around and read Ulysses.
Wow, worst summer camp ever. How about a camp where the kids are all forced to sit around and read Ulysses.
14
For religious literacy you don't need the religion, just the exposure. I had a "Bible as literature" class in high school after an atheist upbringing, and it was great. I'd highly recommend it.
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