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Monday, August 30, 2010

Preschool Depression

Posted by on Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 3:34 PM

Over in the Sunday New York Times Magazine: "Can Preschoolers Be Depressed?"

Here is a 4-year-old thought to be suffering clinical depression:

When Raghu and Elizabeth reminded a downbeat Kiran of their coming trip to Disney World, Kiran responded: “Mickey lies. Dreams don’t come true.”

Raghu and Elizabeth may want to consider the idea that their 4-year-old is just smart—maybe weird, yes, but obviously ahead of the curve on apprehending reality.

These parents also say that their kid "internalizes" things quickly, feels excess guilt and worry (the building blocks of many a fine adult), and that he's easily frustrated and a perfectionist (ditto). Segue to this:

After toying with a new set of Legos, he told his father, “I can’t do Legos.” He then roundly declared: “I will never do them. I am not a Legos person. You should take them away.”

"I am not a Legos person"? This sounds more like mimicry, like something mom or dad might say. (It is also pretty hilarious.)

This kid aside, some say depression may start as early as age 2 or 3, and:

Though research does not support the use of antidepressants in children this young, medication of preschoolers, often off label, is on the rise. One child psychologist told me about a conference he attended where he met frustrated drug-industry representatives. “They want to give these kids medicines, but we can’t figure out the diagnoses.”

So your solemn, weird, perfectionist little kid might be depressed—all right. But the fact that people are giving preschoolers seratonin reuptake inhibitors and/or other antidepressants is deeply messed up. We don't have enough long-term data on them in adults as it is; the idea of the pharmaceutical industry working backwards from wanting to make more money into finding new drug indications for tiny kids is depraved. But some sort of play therapy would be a good idea, wouldn't it?

Maybe so, maybe not.

I observed one session in which a therapist deliberately invoked feelings of guilt in the same blond 5-year-old who told the puppets “When bad things happen, I do feel bad.” Seated at a table with his mother, he turned to greet a therapist carrying a tray with two teacups, one elaborately painted. She told him that they were to have a tea party, pointing out her favorite teacup and describing the time it took to decorate it. “I’ll let you use my favorite today,” she beamed. As he gingerly took the rigged cup, its handle snapped off. His face darkened. The therapist lamented the break, ostensibly distraught, and excused herself from the room. The boy’s mother, guided via earset by a therapist watching through a two-way mirror, helped her child work through and resolve his feelings.

“Do you feel like you’re a bad boy?” his mother asked. Most parents want to distract their kids from negative emotions rather than let them process the feelings. “They want to wipe it away and move on,” Luby says. In this session, the mother was instead encouraged to draw the child out.

The boy nodded tearfully. “I feel like I’m going to go into the trash can,” he said.

“Who would put you in the trash can?” his mother asked.

“You would,” he replied in an accusatory voice.

“I would never do that,” she said. “I love you. Accidents happen.” The boy seemed to recover, and they chatted about her earrings, which he flicked playfully with a forefinger. Then his face drooped again.

“Are you mad at me?” he asked, and then added, almost angrily, “I never want to do this activity again.”

“You’re not a bad boy,” she consoled him. Often, parents don’t realize that their children experience guilt or shame, Luby says. “In response to transgression, they tend to punish rather than reassure.”

“I am a bad boy,” the boy said, ducking under the table. “I don’t think you love me now.” He started to moan from the floor, whimpering: “I’m so sad. I’m so sad.”

This seems wrong in so many ways. Take the kid to a strange environment—one where he's clearly the center of attention—and set him up to break something, something precious to an authoritative adult figure, who then acts "distraught." Introduce immediately the idea that he's "a bad boy." Draw this idea out a bit, in order to "process." Add belated reassurance and further attention to the whole episode. Mix well, and the kid ends up under the table crying. This is modern psychiatry?

Back to the kid who called Mickey Mouse a liar:

Recently, Elizabeth asked Kiran what the happiest time in his life had been. He told her about the trip they took to Spain when he was 8 months old. Elizabeth asked if he remembered going. “No,” he said. “But I looked really happy in the picture.” She pressed him for another answer, a time that he could actually remember. He thought hard. “I haven’t had my happiest time yet,” he said.

He's correct.

 

Comments (28) RSS

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Will in Seattle 1
Just turn off Fox News. The kid's right - so long as Tea Baggers and their ilk are in charge, dreams won't come true - unless they're nightmares.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on August 30, 2010 at 3:40 PM
2
Your response to some of this is a bit disturbing. Towards the end, you say the therapist is messing with the child (when what they are trying to do is to get him to understand that if something goes wrong, its not his fault; that isn't going to sink in the first time through. Sometimes in therapy, you are made upset by something that is brought up; its not necessarily a step backword.) But, earlier, when a kid reacts negatively to Legos, you say it sounds hilarious. The mother who is trying to understand her child doesn't think this is "hilarious;" it deeply worries her, because it seems her child isn't taking any joy in life.

I also don't see how an argueably depressed and sad 2 year old is a setup for one liners about how adults are all sad and depressed. If you're were looking for the humor in a dark situation, you missed it.
Posted by LockeCole on August 30, 2010 at 3:47 PM
biffp 3
Having lived in NYC, I would guess it's mimicry.
Posted by biffp on August 30, 2010 at 3:51 PM
Geraldo Riviera 4
Well, that's it, Bethany has spoken. Clinical depression in children is more than likely mimicry and the smarts attacking. Nice diagnosis.

Wait, what's your degree in Bethany?
Posted by Geraldo Riviera on August 30, 2010 at 3:52 PM
spoiler alert 5
jesus christ. now i'm depressed.
Posted by spoiler alert on August 30, 2010 at 3:52 PM
seandr 6
Depression is a tough nut to crack without pharmaceuticals.
Posted by seandr on August 30, 2010 at 3:57 PM
Dougsf 7
Kids say weird, uncanny, shit all the time, we've all seen it. From a kid that did unexplained Ringo Star impressions as a toddler, to one that'd say "I'm going to kill you" with a straight face. Neither remembered any of it once they were older, nor did they exhibit any analogous personality traits later.

If these parents were childless, they'd probably think their cat was depressed. And it probably would be.
Posted by Dougsf on August 30, 2010 at 4:02 PM
8
The important thing to do is to pathologize every possible behavior and then prescribe a pill that you must take every day for the rest of your life to cure it.
Posted by the Pharmaceutical Industry on August 30, 2010 at 4:03 PM
elenchos 9
Mickey does lie. He DOES! Fuck Mickey and his lies.

Fuck him. That's all.
Posted by elenchos on August 30, 2010 at 4:05 PM
10
@2 i think you are missing the point (duh, says almost every other slog reader)

for me bethany is adding some much needed levity to the story (which to be honest, i have not fully read). some of what was excerpted feels to me like the parents and therapists are taking things too seriously. i am not dismissing the seriousness of childhood emotions. in fact i very much value them and some children have expereinced great trauma and abuse. there is also a part of childhood that is fun and weird and, yes, hilarious. when i read the part about the legos i did laugh because i imagined it in that little child's voice. and it could be very well true that its an imitation of a style of speaking he's heard from adults. but its also not about blaming the parents. everyone is different. some parents are more serious. some kids are more adventurous and fun-loving. the effects on someones life are a result of the meaning we apply. bethany points out that we could just as easily see the child as mature, or quirky instead of depressed and needing therapy/medication.

as for the "play" therapy session. (unless the excerpt is way out of context) i completely disagree with the method. the therapist IS "messing with the child." the whole situation is false. children learn in the moment in real day to day situations. what that therapist did is cruel. you do not intentionally upset people in therapy (that is a huge misunderstanding of what the intention should be). i work with children 0-3 and their families and i am embarrassed to see that in print. more than embarrassed, it infruiates me. bethany is correct to point out that the parent (by way of therapist instruction it seems) introduces the idea that the child might be a "bad boy." how is that "processing the feelings?" "bad" is such a broad term that does not even apply in this instance (especially if you are trying to teach that accidents happen). ugh, its making me more mad thinking about it. please do not take this as an example of appropriate therapy.

thanks bethany for bringing some humor to this discussion. there are other ways to point out the flaws (mine might be outrage), but humor is perfectly legitimate.
More...
Posted by thehugclub on August 30, 2010 at 4:16 PM
Fifty-Two-Eighty 11
Yep, Mickey lied. And guess what? There's no Santa Clause either!

Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha.
Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty http://www.nra.org on August 30, 2010 at 4:20 PM
Toasterhedgehog 12
The kid in the teacup fiasco probably sensed the fucked up artificiality of the experiment. They're treating him like an idiot, not a child.

@4 People without degrees have been raising kids for a hundred thousand years. You don't need to be a psychiatrist to know that deceiving a child into feeling guilty is a bad idea or that kids say weird stuff.

I blame corporations. They prey on our greatest insecurities in order to sell product. Parents that buy into the culture of fear end up denying their own instincts.
Posted by Toasterhedgehog on August 30, 2010 at 4:22 PM
Soupytwist 13
Man, these parents are missing out on the great insanity of kids aged 2-7! They are by far the most interesting people on the face of the planet - their naive wisdom & theories about the world, their reinterpretation of adult conversations, it is PURE GENIUS.

If you don't believe me, google "Tiny Art Director."
Posted by Soupytwist http://twitter.com/katherinesmith on August 30, 2010 at 4:44 PM
Will in Seattle 14
now, for the serious answer ...

The main prob with meds for kids is that dosage levels alter drastically depending on where they are in growth cycles, body mass, and other elements, so it's WAY risky.

This is why dosages for kids are so hard to do.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on August 30, 2010 at 4:47 PM
Noadi 15
Kids brains are still developing as is their ability to cope with emotions and situations. They are going to have big swings in behavior and mood. Now if a child was saying he wanted to kill himself or did something else truly worrying like self harm I'd think depression or other mental illness and get him evaluated. A smart kid realizing the world isn't fair and not being happy about it? Probably not a problem, other than that he's more aware of the world than most 4-year-olds.

Unless a child is in immediate danger to himself or others medication should not be the solution, antidepressants have a black box warning for a reason.
Posted by Noadi http://noadi.net on August 30, 2010 at 4:53 PM
Lola, Now in Iowa City 16
Being in a counselor education doctoral program right now, I'm just in awe that they got IRB approval for this.
Posted by Lola, Now in Iowa City on August 30, 2010 at 5:30 PM
Joe M 17
It is Jiminy Cricket, not Mickey Mouse, who promises kids their dreams will come true. All Mickey does is drive a damn steamboat.
Posted by Joe M on August 30, 2010 at 5:32 PM
Rotten666 18
Why the hell are they taking the ramblings of a three year old seriously? Have they ever even been around these lunatics?
Posted by Rotten666 on August 30, 2010 at 5:38 PM
Will in Seattle 19
@18 studying three year olds gives you insights into the thought processes used by Tea Baggers.

Well, except the kids are more well behaved and don't hate America.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on August 30, 2010 at 5:43 PM
Geni 20
While I did not know suicide was possible, nor did I know the word for it, I remember being suicidal when I was younger than kindergarten - and I started kindergarten at 4.
Posted by Geni on August 30, 2010 at 5:44 PM
21
the real story behind the story; disease mongering:

http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/m…

http://bipolar-stanscroniclesandnarritiv…
Posted by MsPiggy on August 30, 2010 at 6:26 PM
Durang Durang 22
Maybe the kids are depressed because they didn't get into the right Kindergarten, thus screwing them for life: http://nymag.com/news/features/63427/
Posted by Durang Durang http://www.busygamernews.com on August 30, 2010 at 8:22 PM
this guy I know in Spokane 23
Apparently children - small ones - do kill themselves once in awhile. http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?sectio… (not a great reference but the best one I could find in 20 seconds of googling)

I have a friend who was apparently one of those little kids who are always having meltdowns. He said it's horrible. If you can't get your shoelaces tied (for example), you feel like you're stupid & worthless & weak, the world has turned against you, and there's nothing you can do to change it because you're too stupid, worthless & weak. Parents telling you it's going to be OK don't help, because what they're saying is obviously not true. I could totally understand a little kid wanting to kill himself over feelings like that. Adults do it all the time.
Posted by this guy I know in Spokane on August 30, 2010 at 8:33 PM
24
@10 upon reading your comment and the article again, I think you're right about the therapy session; you can try to gauge his behavior and talk to him about what he's thinking during the normal course of the day, not by setting up a specific event that will make him unhappy. As far as the "quirkyness" of the child, sometimes kids grow up and get over it; sometimes, they turn into depressed teenagers and depressed adults; if the parents assumed the former and didn't do anything, we'd berate them for not taking action when there were obvious warning signs.

As far as the rest of the article, I guess its all subjective (except for the medication part, 100% agree with that). The legos kid doesn't sound mature to me, the kid sounds sad; if nothing else, its not something I would write off as "quirky". And as far as the humor, I have a blue sense of humor; but it has to be done well. And, to me, this.....wasn't.
Posted by LockeCol on August 30, 2010 at 8:38 PM
HellboundAlleee 25
What I see here is a pattern in psychologists. They want results, so they become suggestive. They do it to kids all the time, and that's what happened in the Wenatchee "Sex Ring" scandal. Kids want to please authority figures (hell, so do adults; so do I) so they give them what they want. When the kid didn't give her the answer she wanted, she tried to force him to by putting a suggestion into his mind.

And I think that's immoral. Actually, I think that's sick.
Posted by HellboundAlleee http://hellboundalleee.blogspot.com on August 31, 2010 at 7:05 AM
26
He's right, he hasn't had the happiest time in his life. The happiest time in his life will be when he sheds his insane parents and the damage they've done to him.

BTW, isn't the awareness that things are going to get better a sign that you're not clinically depressed?
Posted by Root on August 31, 2010 at 8:44 AM
27
Is anyone really surprised that doctors are behaving in such a loathsome manner towards these kids? That whole rigged teacup thing is just disgusting. The parents would be better off taking their kids to crack dealers.
Posted by my name is not here on August 31, 2010 at 10:04 AM
Party Chief 28
I can recall writing the line "sometimes I feel discouraged" in a 1st grade assignment. I even remember asking my teacher how to spell "discouraged." Wonder what went through her head?
Posted by Party Chief on August 31, 2010 at 1:51 PM

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