Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, August 18, 2010
Religion It Can't Happen Here
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:04 PM
But wouldn't it be nice?
Mayor Marcelo Ebrard of Mexico City on Wednesday filed a civil suit claiming defamation against Cardinal Juan Sandoval Iniguez of Guadalajara, upping the ante in a high-profile political spat over gay marriage in Mexico that pits emboldened secular institutions against the country's influential Roman Catholic clergy (link in Spanish). The suit comes after Ebrard demanded that Sandoval retract suggestions made over the weekend that Mexico's Supreme Court justices were bribed for their recent landmark rulings in favor of gay marriage and adoption by same-sex couples in the Mexican capital.Sandoval made the allegations on Sunday during an event in Aguascalientes state. He also used a slur against gays while decrying the recent high court decisions that were called victories for the gay-rights community.... [The] Supreme Court censured Sandoval's statements unanimously, and Ebrard issued a stark warning to the highest-ranking prelate of Mexico's second-largest city: "We live in a secular state, and here, whether we like it or not, the law rules the land," Ebrard said, according to La Jornada (links in Spanish). "The cardinal must submit to the law of the land, like all other citizens of this country."
In the United States the church can oversee the mass rape of thousands of defenseless children—not only shielding the rapists but serving up fresh victims—without losing its claim to moral authority, its ability to lie and defame with impunity, or the cringing deference of our political "leaders."
1
I wish religion were like porn: Something you do in private because you enjoy it, but wouldn't dream of doing in public, or telling other people about, let alone forcing them to participate.
2
Its.
And yes, it has been pretty incredible to read about high-ranking government leaders in Mexico and Argentina actually advocating for equality.
And yes, it has been pretty incredible to read about high-ranking government leaders in Mexico and Argentina actually advocating for equality.
6
Yeah, Mexico is such a great place to emulate, being the murder capital of the World and all.
Why, that's precisely what our neighbor to the south needs to do, eradicate what little institutions they have left that promote the social order and good. Murder, kidnappings and all sorts of mayhem have become the trademark of Mexico City, yet the wonderful mayor feels his priority should be focused into suing a Cardinal. Certainly those who think that we need to imitate such a 'great' narco-state can go first and experiment with a couple of years of residency over there. Maybe after they return in one piece after a couple of years in such an Utopia we can all collectively consider whether dan's admiration is founded in sound logic or sheer stupidity.
Why, that's precisely what our neighbor to the south needs to do, eradicate what little institutions they have left that promote the social order and good. Murder, kidnappings and all sorts of mayhem have become the trademark of Mexico City, yet the wonderful mayor feels his priority should be focused into suing a Cardinal. Certainly those who think that we need to imitate such a 'great' narco-state can go first and experiment with a couple of years of residency over there. Maybe after they return in one piece after a couple of years in such an Utopia we can all collectively consider whether dan's admiration is founded in sound logic or sheer stupidity.
7
The government and ruling class of Mexico have always had a fucked up power struggle with the RC Church. Anyone ever read the Power and the Glory by Graham Greene? This isn't new.
And I don't really put Mexico on my list of progressive nations. (Newsweek's poll last week placed Mexico at #45, below the UAE and Slovakia. Then again, it said Finland was #1, while Norway is #6, below those fat racist Australians. If that is true, the worlds gone to hell already, and we may all want to move to Mexico now.)
And I don't really put Mexico on my list of progressive nations. (Newsweek's poll last week placed Mexico at #45, below the UAE and Slovakia. Then again, it said Finland was #1, while Norway is #6, below those fat racist Australians. If that is true, the worlds gone to hell already, and we may all want to move to Mexico now.)
8
@6: Explain exactly how allowing gays to get married will in any way exacerbate drug violence. Give me ONE valid reason, Loveschild, or you are hereby a cockmongling queefburger and as such b& from SLOG.
Also, I think you're confusing Mexico City (México D. F.) with Ciudad Juárez, which is where the drug violence really tends to happen.
Also, I think you're confusing Mexico City (México D. F.) with Ciudad Juárez, which is where the drug violence really tends to happen.
9
@LC: Let's not forget that "murder, kidnapping, and all sorts of mayhem" were hallmarks of the Catholic church for many years; one might go so far as to say that the lawless element in Mexico has had a very good teacher in the church.
The Dark Ages Remix version that we seem to be living through at the moment will have its own enlightenment one of these days...stories like this one are harbingers.
The Dark Ages Remix version that we seem to be living through at the moment will have its own enlightenment one of these days...stories like this one are harbingers.
10
Venomlash, permission to henceforth refer to *it* as "CQC" (cockmongling Queefburger Cuntwhorebitch) ??
12
@9 Maybe, in the meantime lawlessness is what reigns in Mexico, say what you want about the Catholic Church, and I make no excuses for some of the genocidal acts they cordoned in the past( and they should not be forgotten), but lawlessness was not a derivative of theirs. In fact one of the most positive aspects of Mexican society is based on the positive veneration of their national Catholic guardian.
@8, No, potty-mouth brat, Mexico City in particular is the most unsafe metropolis in this world, where many kidnappings are an hourly occurrence, most of the wealthy have fled to places like Miami and basically have ghost mansions there and reside there merely when their work demands it. Lawlessness is conducive to that, and since the judicial system (just as in California) have shown a complete disregard for the concerns of the citizenry and have diverted their attention to the implementation of unwanted nonsense like gay 'marriage' and now adoption, amongst other things that the population are clearly against, lawlessness, violence and a complete disregard for society is what is expected to keep on taking place.
@8, No, potty-mouth brat, Mexico City in particular is the most unsafe metropolis in this world, where many kidnappings are an hourly occurrence, most of the wealthy have fled to places like Miami and basically have ghost mansions there and reside there merely when their work demands it. Lawlessness is conducive to that, and since the judicial system (just as in California) have shown a complete disregard for the concerns of the citizenry and have diverted their attention to the implementation of unwanted nonsense like gay 'marriage' and now adoption, amongst other things that the population are clearly against, lawlessness, violence and a complete disregard for society is what is expected to keep on taking place.
13
The RTC, no matter where it resides, is certainly not "lawless," since in its history, it deems its own crimes against humanity legal. Nothing but a filthy brothel from the get-go.
Hey, RTC: Sell all your gold and art and beautiful fabrics and clothe and feed the poor, like your "founder" told you. Wouldn't Jesus just LOVE the RTC today? (Or yesterday, or its entire history, for that matter.
Oh...wait. That's the guy who said burning and suffering in hellfire was justified. Never mind. You're logically correct, RTC. Humankind is evil and corrupt, might as well go with the flow, right?
Hey, RTC: Sell all your gold and art and beautiful fabrics and clothe and feed the poor, like your "founder" told you. Wouldn't Jesus just LOVE the RTC today? (Or yesterday, or its entire history, for that matter.
Oh...wait. That's the guy who said burning and suffering in hellfire was justified. Never mind. You're logically correct, RTC. Humankind is evil and corrupt, might as well go with the flow, right?
15
@12 Not rock your little boat too much, LC, but some have suggested that the reason the Catholic church has been so successful in Central and South America is that the people there never strayed too far from their ancient pagan goddess-based traditions, and that the Virgin Mary was a convenient goddess substitute (which is why festivals in Central and South America focus on honouring Mary, rather than Jesus.) So, the positive aspects of which you speak are basically derivative of female-centered pagan traditions. The negative aspects (the drug-related crime) have nothing to do with who is fucking whom....just sayin'.
16
What's lost in this conversation is Mexico's unique history in undergoing a very cleansing anti-clerical period. Their Abraham Lincoln, Benito Juárez, led a reform period ("La Reforma") that took away all the church's lands and lessened the control of the church in the political structure of the country. He is a BELOVED figure in Mexican history and it's that kind of anti-clerical, secular culture that I wish existed in the United States.
17
@12: Do you feel any personal guilt about completely making up claims and passing them off as facts?
Mexico City's homicide rate last year was 8.0 per 100,000, which in American terms puts it between Wichita and Albuquerque. Comparing capitals, Washington D.C. was 31.4.
Mexico City's homicide rate last year was 8.0 per 100,000, which in American terms puts it between Wichita and Albuquerque. Comparing capitals, Washington D.C. was 31.4.
18
@17 "Do you feel any personal guilt about completely making up claims and passing them off as facts?"
Take away their ability to lie and they wouldn't last long as Conservatives.
Take away their ability to lie and they wouldn't last long as Conservatives.
19
I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't read it with my own two eyes: the American Taliban is so fucking insane that they actually think gay marriage causes drug violence.
Seems far more likely that LC is fueling the violence in Mexico by refusing to put down that crackpipe.
Seems far more likely that LC is fueling the violence in Mexico by refusing to put down that crackpipe.
20
Just FYI, but if you're talking to LovesChild, I suggest you start talking to your wall, for a couple of reasons.
The first of which is that your wall is smarter.
The second is that whatever answers your wall gives you, they will make more sense than the crap that spews from LovesChild's mouth.
The first of which is that your wall is smarter.
The second is that whatever answers your wall gives you, they will make more sense than the crap that spews from LovesChild's mouth.
21
@10: AT ONCE!!!
@12: Ah, it's you again, and you're calling me a pottymouth. Well, I'd rather be a pottymouth than a poo-poo head. You say that Ciudad Juárez isn't as bad as Mexico City? Here are some facts to prove you wrong. See that? Juárez has a murder rate over SIXTEEN (16) TIMES that of Mexico City.
It's when you doggedly insist that you're correct, no matter how severely the facts might disagree, that you make a real ass of yourself.
I see that you reason as follows:
1. Debate over gay marriage.
2. Government spends time debating gay marriage.
3. Government should be fighting crime instead.
4. Gay marriage exacerbates crime!!!
Allow me to hold your face under the putrescent waters of knowledge, if I may quote Yahtzee Croshaw. I don't know how much the gay marriage debate detracts from crimefighting efforts, but how about you guys stop trying to take people's rights away, huh? If you guys stop digging your heels in, then it's a non-issue and crimefighting can resume, right? Let me say that a little louder, if I may torture the COCKSLAP key a little:
IF YOU ASSMUNCHES STOP HARASSING GAY PEOPLE, THE GOVERNMENT WON'T HAVE TO WASTE TIME DEBATING THE ISSUE.
Now I'm going to leave you a few days for that to sink in.
@12: Ah, it's you again, and you're calling me a pottymouth. Well, I'd rather be a pottymouth than a poo-poo head. You say that Ciudad Juárez isn't as bad as Mexico City? Here are some facts to prove you wrong. See that? Juárez has a murder rate over SIXTEEN (16) TIMES that of Mexico City.
It's when you doggedly insist that you're correct, no matter how severely the facts might disagree, that you make a real ass of yourself.
I see that you reason as follows:
1. Debate over gay marriage.
2. Government spends time debating gay marriage.
3. Government should be fighting crime instead.
4. Gay marriage exacerbates crime!!!
Allow me to hold your face under the putrescent waters of knowledge, if I may quote Yahtzee Croshaw. I don't know how much the gay marriage debate detracts from crimefighting efforts, but how about you guys stop trying to take people's rights away, huh? If you guys stop digging your heels in, then it's a non-issue and crimefighting can resume, right? Let me say that a little louder, if I may torture the COCKSLAP key a little:
IF YOU ASSMUNCHES STOP HARASSING GAY PEOPLE, THE GOVERNMENT WON'T HAVE TO WASTE TIME DEBATING THE ISSUE.
Now I'm going to leave you a few days for that to sink in.
22
Wow, I hope somebody saved a "People Hate Me On SLOG" button for LC, because he/she/they/it are the fucking poster child(ren) for that slogan.
Stupid fucking cunt...
Stupid fucking cunt...
23
I'm not a scientist, Venomlash, but from what I remember of high school biology, a saturated solution cannot absorb any additional solutes. CQC is completely, comprehensively, irretrievably full of shit, therefore, sadly, nothing more will be able to sink in. Recommend instead applying large ball gag and duct tape over typing fingers.
29
@25 You're right, of course, Gus. The changes in voice, the variable grammar...why do we persist? Perhaps a Slog investigation is in order....cough up "her" IP, Savage, time to bitch slap some Pentecostal grad students.
30
Welcome back Loveschild. According to your Bible though, you're headed to hell with the rest of us.
Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
We are the sexually immoral, and you are a liar. See you in the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
We are the sexually immoral, and you are a liar. See you in the lake of fire.
32
@16 makes a good point.
America's 'Lincoln' prayed to God.
Mexico's 'Lincoln' oppressed religion and forced secularism on Mexicans.
Much like Dan and the HomoLiberalFacists hope to do in America.
Mexico turned out a Corrupt Impoverished Socialist ThirdWorldShitHole.
take a look at your future, Qunited States of Gaymerica.....
America's 'Lincoln' prayed to God.
Mexico's 'Lincoln' oppressed religion and forced secularism on Mexicans.
Much like Dan and the HomoLiberalFacists hope to do in America.
Mexico turned out a Corrupt Impoverished Socialist ThirdWorldShitHole.
take a look at your future, Qunited States of Gaymerica.....
35
Kim@27: You and I and numerous others have been saying the same thing repeatedly, but it doesn't seem to sink in. I've come to the conclusion that it's because Loveschild wants to pass herself off as a martyr. What she doesn't realize is that martyrdom involves suffering for others, not making others suffer.
Even if Loveschild's "facts" about Mexico City were true, though, the murder rate wouldn't have anything to do with same-sex marriage. Even if Loveschild had a source for those statistics they would have been published prior to the time that Mexico City started recognizing same-sex marriages. If the murder rate declined Loveschild wouldn't bring it up...or would just claim it was going up.
Even if Loveschild's "facts" about Mexico City were true, though, the murder rate wouldn't have anything to do with same-sex marriage. Even if Loveschild had a source for those statistics they would have been published prior to the time that Mexico City started recognizing same-sex marriages. If the murder rate declined Loveschild wouldn't bring it up...or would just claim it was going up.
36
The Catholic Church is an evil coven of sick and twisted old men concerned only with their own power. The rape of thousands of children and the cover-ups of those rapes absolutely and irrefutably proves this.
37
I live in Mexico City.
Loveschild's assertions are not only false, they are ridiculous and contradictory (if all the rich people have moved out, who the hell is getting kidnapped so many times every hour?). But then again, what can we expect from someone who never bothers to let facts get in the way of making a completely stupid statement?
Mexico City is actually a lot safer than Acapulco and Cancun (not to mention the border cities of the North), and that doesn't stop plane-loads of Americans from visiting those two hot spots, does it?
Most of the Mexican population is NOT opposed to gay marriage. The Catholic Church and the PAN, the party in power at the national level, both are. But fewer and fewer people go to church, and the PAN is on it's way out because everyone blames the slew of drug-related deaths on its leader, president Felipe Calderon. Indeed, if he hadn't decided to wage what is essentially the US' war on drugs, there would be 25000 more people living today.
So, LC, why don't you at least TRY to make some sense and to learn about the topics you discuss before logging in to comment on SLOG? It's really pathetic.
Loveschild's assertions are not only false, they are ridiculous and contradictory (if all the rich people have moved out, who the hell is getting kidnapped so many times every hour?). But then again, what can we expect from someone who never bothers to let facts get in the way of making a completely stupid statement?
Mexico City is actually a lot safer than Acapulco and Cancun (not to mention the border cities of the North), and that doesn't stop plane-loads of Americans from visiting those two hot spots, does it?
Most of the Mexican population is NOT opposed to gay marriage. The Catholic Church and the PAN, the party in power at the national level, both are. But fewer and fewer people go to church, and the PAN is on it's way out because everyone blames the slew of drug-related deaths on its leader, president Felipe Calderon. Indeed, if he hadn't decided to wage what is essentially the US' war on drugs, there would be 25000 more people living today.
So, LC, why don't you at least TRY to make some sense and to learn about the topics you discuss before logging in to comment on SLOG? It's really pathetic.
38
@23: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersatura…
This should be interesting. Let's supersaturate Loveschild's DURR endoplasm!
This should be interesting. Let's supersaturate Loveschild's DURR endoplasm!
39
Oh, Lovechild, you silly thing, you do know that while gay marriage is new to Mexico, the Catholic church is not. All the murder and mayhem was happening long before gay marriage. I wonder how that could have happened with the Catholic church and all. Maybe now that the church is losing it's grip, the crime rate will drop.
40
Thank you, Venomlash, for beginning my day with a smile, because I don't often get to follow a link to a diet Coke and Mentos eruption, which has already kind of made my day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_Coke_a…
Your link also mentioned "widgets", as in, the little things that float in a can of Guinness and provide extra bubbles upon opening, and this reminded me of one of my favourite stories: A while back, Mr. Canuck and I were celebrating the fact that I come from a long line of Irish alcoholics by having dinner at the James Joyce Pub in Calgary. The band playing was "The Floating Widgets." For whatever reason, they spent their time between sets at our table, gabbing with us. Turns out, they had recently been denied a gig for a big event at Jasper Park Lodge due to their "discriminatory" name. Upon further investigation, turns out the powers that be at JPL thought their name was "The Floating Midgets".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_Coke_a…
Your link also mentioned "widgets", as in, the little things that float in a can of Guinness and provide extra bubbles upon opening, and this reminded me of one of my favourite stories: A while back, Mr. Canuck and I were celebrating the fact that I come from a long line of Irish alcoholics by having dinner at the James Joyce Pub in Calgary. The band playing was "The Floating Widgets." For whatever reason, they spent their time between sets at our table, gabbing with us. Turns out, they had recently been denied a gig for a big event at Jasper Park Lodge due to their "discriminatory" name. Upon further investigation, turns out the powers that be at JPL thought their name was "The Floating Midgets".
41
@ Southern Gentleman,
Yes. I've been circling the dance floor since Feb. 2009 and it does not change, accept the "pious martyr" started up in March '09. I have not found a way to have an honest dialog with someone who's comments indicate that they believe that they speak for God and because "my heavenly Father guards me in all my ways" they have the right to judge, slander, and withold equal treatment under the law. In short, all I read is a lot of hubris from a religious bully. And, it saddens my heart to think such personal internal poverty is being used as justification for bigotry and hatemongering. Lacking one's own internal peace seems to lead to an external inability to speak and act ethically. That is just my $0.02.
Yes. I've been circling the dance floor since Feb. 2009 and it does not change, accept the "pious martyr" started up in March '09. I have not found a way to have an honest dialog with someone who's comments indicate that they believe that they speak for God and because "my heavenly Father guards me in all my ways" they have the right to judge, slander, and withold equal treatment under the law. In short, all I read is a lot of hubris from a religious bully. And, it saddens my heart to think such personal internal poverty is being used as justification for bigotry and hatemongering. Lacking one's own internal peace seems to lead to an external inability to speak and act ethically. That is just my $0.02.
42
When people ask me if I'm "afraid" to live in Mexico City, I mention that I've been to Los Angeles, Chicago, Bellevue, Omaha, Morelia, and Washington DC. I have never felt unsafe in the DF.
PS Not that I did a careful analysis but something about the so-called writing from this version of LC sounds different from the former incarnation. Truly un fantasma.
PS Not that I did a careful analysis but something about the so-called writing from this version of LC sounds different from the former incarnation. Truly un fantasma.
43
Kidnapping Capital of the World:
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/internati…
From WIKI:
"Mexico City's crime rate has begun rising again, after having previously peaked in the late 1990s. Mexico City's inner core has about 8 million people — about the same number as New York City. However, Mexico City's police force is only two-thirds the size of New York City's and is organized into several ill-co-ordinated forces. Policemen earn less than a quarter of their U.S. counterparts, so many officers turn to corruption to augment their pay. And even in the cases where criminals do get caught, the courts are often too corrupt and inefficient to punish them."
Most Dangerous Cities by Murder:
1. Ciudad Juarez - 133 per 100,000
2. Nuevo Laredo - 95 per 100,000
3. Tijuana - 38.8 per 100,000
?. Mexico City - 8.1 per 100,000
So while it is true that other areas in that narco-state nation surpass Mexico City in crime rate it would be inaccurate to draw a complete comparison, due to the size difference. Let alone to say that the former is supposed to be that nation's capital.
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/internati…
From WIKI:
"Mexico City's crime rate has begun rising again, after having previously peaked in the late 1990s. Mexico City's inner core has about 8 million people — about the same number as New York City. However, Mexico City's police force is only two-thirds the size of New York City's and is organized into several ill-co-ordinated forces. Policemen earn less than a quarter of their U.S. counterparts, so many officers turn to corruption to augment their pay. And even in the cases where criminals do get caught, the courts are often too corrupt and inefficient to punish them."
Most Dangerous Cities by Murder:
1. Ciudad Juarez - 133 per 100,000
2. Nuevo Laredo - 95 per 100,000
3. Tijuana - 38.8 per 100,000
?. Mexico City - 8.1 per 100,000
So while it is true that other areas in that narco-state nation surpass Mexico City in crime rate it would be inaccurate to draw a complete comparison, due to the size difference. Let alone to say that the former is supposed to be that nation's capital.
44
Let's look at murder rates in North American capitals:
Washington DC 23.8 per 100,000
Mexico City: 8.1 per 100,000
Ottawa: 1.8 per 100,000 people.
Equal marriage is the law of the land across Canada.
So, equal marriage means less murders, QED.
Washington DC 23.8 per 100,000
Mexico City: 8.1 per 100,000
Ottawa: 1.8 per 100,000 people.
Equal marriage is the law of the land across Canada.
So, equal marriage means less murders, QED.
45
@44 I missed the part where you explained how same-sex marriage will increase crime? And if you're saying that we shouldn't want to emulate one of the good things a country does if that country has other negative aspects, then do we ignore any good legislation coming out of Washington because of its high crime rate?
BTW, who are you today, LC/CQC? Our LC dusn't spel so gud.
BTW, who are you today, LC/CQC? Our LC dusn't spel so gud.
46
So, yes it would be very nice to see all those that admire such a 'great' narco-state deficient in law and morals pack up and move over there. I fear if that doesn't happen those like savage who feel such admiration for Mexico would want to see a replicate of that 'utopia' here.
It would be nice, now stop dreaming about it and leave.
It would be nice, now stop dreaming about it and leave.
47
I'm confused -
Is this thread about the crime/murder rate in Mexico City or the mutually exclusive idea of same-sex marriage?
Is this thread about the crime/murder rate in Mexico City or the mutually exclusive idea of same-sex marriage?
48
That is very nice, dear. You know how to use the Internet to cherry pick. Now try comprehending @ 17's post.
You know you might find people could respect you if you acted with integrity, instead of back peddling your lies and pretending that everyone is "misunderstanding you". It does not make your comments anymore honest when you pretend that no-one understands you. You just look sad. Really sad.
You know you might find people could respect you if you acted with integrity, instead of back peddling your lies and pretending that everyone is "misunderstanding you". It does not make your comments anymore honest when you pretend that no-one understands you. You just look sad. Really sad.
49
Sorry, Frau Blucher. Someone is trying to spatch-cock the two together to justify their hatemongering here.
51
@46: I admire Mexico a lot. They have excellent cuisine and a rich artistic tradition stemming from the old Aztec culture.
Loveschild, come to Chicago some time, and you and I can visit Pilsen together and see all sorts of awesome Mexican culture.
Until then, please shut your fucking mouth about all those scary fag-enabling brown people south of the Rio Grande.
Loveschild, come to Chicago some time, and you and I can visit Pilsen together and see all sorts of awesome Mexican culture.
Until then, please shut your fucking mouth about all those scary fag-enabling brown people south of the Rio Grande.
52
Lovechild, sweetheart, it was the church that has been in Mexico during all the crime, drugs, murder etc., not gay marriage. You're so cute.
53
Rewind again:
backpedaling..
It seems my spelling is out the window. I think I'll take this a sign to duct tape my fingers for a bit. Off to get more caffine.
backpedaling..
It seems my spelling is out the window. I think I'll take this a sign to duct tape my fingers for a bit. Off to get more caffine.
54
@45: I hope you meant @43; if not I have grievously misstated my point. (I'm already cursing myself for writing "less murders" instead of "fewer murders." Argh.
@46: Judging by the crime rates alone, I'd much rather live in Mexico City than D.C. (That said, my old hometown still pwns both of them.) But you haven't addressed my point: there appears to be a direct correlation between national recognition of the rights of all citizens to marry, and lower murder rates in the national capital. So, pick one:
a) Equal marriage will result in lower murder rates
or
b) Correlation is not causation and there are thousands of factors affecting relative murder rates, of which equal marriage probably isn't one.
@46: Judging by the crime rates alone, I'd much rather live in Mexico City than D.C. (That said, my old hometown still pwns both of them.) But you haven't addressed my point: there appears to be a direct correlation between national recognition of the rights of all citizens to marry, and lower murder rates in the national capital. So, pick one:
a) Equal marriage will result in lower murder rates
or
b) Correlation is not causation and there are thousands of factors affecting relative murder rates, of which equal marriage probably isn't one.
55
Kim - You can post as much as you like. We love you here, at SLOG (myself included).
I merely was making the observation that LC has, once again, hijacked a thread.
I merely was making the observation that LC has, once again, hijacked a thread.
56
@51 Fine Venom, leave, nobody's stopping you. Gather you're an adult (which sometimes I seriously doubt) you can buy a ticket or headover to the paradisiacal border and enter 'utopia'. An 'utopia' that besides being riddled with murders, kidnappings and corrupt courts (your kind of courts) is also infested with misogyny (double whammy for you) and racist denial of their black citizens (your type of place). Paradise awaits you Venom, and believe me, paradise would also be created even in Chicago once you depart.
What's stopping you Venom ?
What's stopping you Venom ?
57
@56 What's stopping you, Loveschild, from addressing the numerous counter-arguments that have been thrown your way? Are the facts too difficult for you to grasp, or do you just not want to admit you've been proven wrong?
58
@56: Thank you for your lovely gift basket of BUTTHURT, Loveschild.
I have visited Mexico in the past, about five years ago. Sadly, I have college classes to attend quite soon indeed, and so cannot make a trip there. I never claimed that Mexico is a utopia; it isn't. However, you seem to be under the impression that it is full to the brim of corrupt drug-dealing Teh Ghey politicians with AIDS who eat babies and shoot corgis with AK-47s. And that is simply not true Have you ever been south of the border?
Also, I'd still like to see you justify your claim that gay marriage will somehow exacerbate drug crime in Mexico, as your previous blathering on that topic did not stand up to the briefest examination.
You are currently classified as "Cockmongling Queefburger Cuntwhorebitch". Just FYI.
I have visited Mexico in the past, about five years ago. Sadly, I have college classes to attend quite soon indeed, and so cannot make a trip there. I never claimed that Mexico is a utopia; it isn't. However, you seem to be under the impression that it is full to the brim of corrupt drug-dealing Teh Ghey politicians with AIDS who eat babies and shoot corgis with AK-47s. And that is simply not true Have you ever been south of the border?
Also, I'd still like to see you justify your claim that gay marriage will somehow exacerbate drug crime in Mexico, as your previous blathering on that topic did not stand up to the briefest examination.
You are currently classified as "Cockmongling Queefburger Cuntwhorebitch". Just FYI.
59
@54 Doh! Yes, I meant @43! Boy, for a group of devious grad students posing as an illiterate Christian, Loveschild does a good job of getting me so riled up I don't even reference "her" properly....
60
Ever notice how people who call themselves Christian are so hateful and mean spirited toward anyone even the slightest bit different from them?
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@59: No worries. And I am fairly certain the correct pronoun for a hivemind is either "it" or "them".
I like "it" myself.
@60: All of them? No. Can't say that I have.
I like "it" myself.
@60: All of them? No. Can't say that I have.
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@60 Vince, I've actually noticed that not all people who call themselves Christian are hateful and mean-spirited, although it's easy to think that given the way that prominent examples stick out.
At least in my experience hate and mean-spiritedness, like tea, know no segregation, no class nor pedigree know no sect or organisation, know no one religion, nor political belief. (Apologies to Ray Davies.)
At least in my experience hate and mean-spiritedness, like tea, know no segregation, no class nor pedigree know no sect or organisation, know no one religion, nor political belief. (Apologies to Ray Davies.)
63
It's not the imposition of gay marriage and now the attempt of adoption per se, but the way in which is being implemented against the people (sounds familiar ?) and at the cost of other priorities in such a crime infested nation.
While the supposed mayor takes on a crusade against the Catholic Church for actually standing up for the concerns of the citizenry, and not the corrupt courts (and politicians), his city is going to hell in a handbasket.
Something that has come to places like California, and which has been keept at bay there, partially, and completely in other states, for the time being.
While the supposed mayor takes on a crusade against the Catholic Church for actually standing up for the concerns of the citizenry, and not the corrupt courts (and politicians), his city is going to hell in a handbasket.
Something that has come to places like California, and which has been keept at bay there, partially, and completely in other states, for the time being.
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Yes, it is indeed fairly obvious how gay marriage leads inevitably to rampant violent crime, especially considering countries like Sweden....
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LC, do you have any data to back your claim that this happened "against the will of the people", i.e. any poll that demonstrates that a majority of Mexicans opposes gay marriage?
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@63 How is it that you can spell "per se," but not "kept"? The collective that is Loveschild needs to work on consistency.
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@64 It's the same here in Canada, Brunobar: Same-sex marriage legislation was followed by rising employment rates, sky-high housing prices, a low crime rate, and better dressed babies (if the two guys I just saw with their kid on 17th Ave are any indication...) It's really sad, but, that's progress, I guess.
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@ 63 - Hey, LC, stop spewing nonsense.
Have you got ANY proof that this is being implemented against the will of the population? I live here and I haven't seen or heard of A SINGLE DEMONSTRATION against gay marriage (and demonstrations are the most frequent affliction this great city suffers, not the crimes that you're inventing).
So please, I dare you to refute my claims... because I know you can't. You're just repeating the prejudiced crap you've heard on Fox news or somewhere equally "fair and balanced".
And by the way, the city's a whole lot better than when I moved here 7 years ago (yes, I moved to my utopia, because it's a lot better than where YOU live I'm sure) or when I first visited 14 years ago. So it ain't going to hell anytime soon.
Have you got ANY proof that this is being implemented against the will of the population? I live here and I haven't seen or heard of A SINGLE DEMONSTRATION against gay marriage (and demonstrations are the most frequent affliction this great city suffers, not the crimes that you're inventing).
So please, I dare you to refute my claims... because I know you can't. You're just repeating the prejudiced crap you've heard on Fox news or somewhere equally "fair and balanced".
And by the way, the city's a whole lot better than when I moved here 7 years ago (yes, I moved to my utopia, because it's a lot better than where YOU live I'm sure) or when I first visited 14 years ago. So it ain't going to hell anytime soon.
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Loveschild, I've noticed that it doesn't take long for you to sound like a broken record. Even if you could cite some statistics (note that I said "cite", not "make up") your "will of the people" argument doesn't carry any more weight now than it has any of the previous times you've brought it up. Same-sex marriage isn't being imposed on anyone, unless couples are being forced to marry.
As for priorities, that harkens back to an incredibly offensive argument you made some time ago about how a child's murder could have been prevented if Perry v. Schwarzanegger hadn't been clogging up the courts.
But if you want to talk about priorities, though, what is the Catholic Church doing to reduce Mexico City's crime and poverty? Obviously dealing with those issues is a very low priority for them if they're more concerned about an issue that harms no one.
As for priorities, that harkens back to an incredibly offensive argument you made some time ago about how a child's murder could have been prevented if Perry v. Schwarzanegger hadn't been clogging up the courts.
But if you want to talk about priorities, though, what is the Catholic Church doing to reduce Mexico City's crime and poverty? Obviously dealing with those issues is a very low priority for them if they're more concerned about an issue that harms no one.
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" that harkens back to an incredibly offensive argument you made some time ago about how a child's murder could have been prevented if Perry v. Schwarzanegger hadn't been clogging up the courts".
Man, that one was back Feb. of this year as I was informed I wasn't doing enough for the DV victims, I help in OR, for supporting equality; ranks right up there with her pro Uganda's "Kill the Gays" bill and the numerous pro prison rape position. Some real gems this year. Depressing.
Man, that one was back Feb. of this year as I was informed I wasn't doing enough for the DV victims, I help in OR, for supporting equality; ranks right up there with her pro Uganda's "Kill the Gays" bill and the numerous pro prison rape position. Some real gems this year. Depressing.
72
Uh - to the person with love in their name. If that darling church would seriously condemn the drug warriors the way they do doctors, gay people and mothers who don't want their raped pubescent daughters to die in childbirth, then Mexico would not have so many problems. The church is part of the problem. Drug warriors can chop someone’s head off, (a medieval church tradition), traffic some kid, go confess, be told to sin no more, go out do it again, get told to sin no more, blah, blah, blah. Not a very good system of holding people accountable. That church is an enabler, not a solid moral foundation.
And before you speak about us not emulating Mexico, perhaps you should speak to some traditional American types who buy drugs from those drug warriors. There are plenty of conservatives who do that.
Think things through don't just clinging to "traditional values" for fear of reality?
And before you speak about us not emulating Mexico, perhaps you should speak to some traditional American types who buy drugs from those drug warriors. There are plenty of conservatives who do that.
Think things through don't just clinging to "traditional values" for fear of reality?
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Loveschild! I nearly missed your dramatic re-entry to Slog. I love positing the brain-bending idea that gay marriage is the source of all of Mexico's problems, very nice touch. I'm still rooting for you to get a Genius Award for performance art. Keep up the good work, you're hilarious!
Love,
Mike
Love,
Mike
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