Slog
News & ArtsMonday, July 26, 2010
Religion This Should Take the Heat Off Molly Norris
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:55 AM
An evangelical pastor in Florida launches "International Burn a Koran Day," which leads to this shocker of a headline:
Muslims oppose Florida church’s “Burn a Koran Day”
No one could've predicted. There's already a Facebook page. (If you're a Facebook user in Pakistan, get your status update posted now.) This should end well.
1
Why discriminate? Let's have "Burn a Sacred Text Day"! Bibles, Books of Mormons (?), Bhagivads Gitas, Scientology courses, all of 'em, into the flames!!
3
Upon a first read of this, I thought it said 'Burn a Korean Day', and wondered why, beyond the affront to all that is holy and human, would Muslims oppose burning Koreans in only Florida, and not the rest of the country.
8
Religious fanatics baiting other religious fanatics. Can't we get them all on one continent (ideally Antarctica) and let them hash it out among themselves?
Much as I despise the type of Islamic extremism that is so in love with death and so immune to irony that they put hits out on cartoonists, the correct response to book burners is *never* to burn their books. To paraphrase Einstein, you cannot simultaneously defend free speech while crushing it.
Much as I despise the type of Islamic extremism that is so in love with death and so immune to irony that they put hits out on cartoonists, the correct response to book burners is *never* to burn their books. To paraphrase Einstein, you cannot simultaneously defend free speech while crushing it.
11
@1, I was thinking the same thing, except that I'm too damn classy to burn books like a knuckledragging Florida jackass.
Although... I might find it in my heart to shred a bible and a koran, make papier-mache out of them, and sculpt a large penis from it.
Although... I might find it in my heart to shred a bible and a koran, make papier-mache out of them, and sculpt a large penis from it.
13
I highly recommend reading the first comment from the linked post: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/feature…
14
Yalls, I know that not many regular Sloggers are particularly religious, but we all recognize this for an act of hate, right? They're going to burn a Koran on 9/11.
Facebook protest page.
Facebook protest page.
15
The Quran is a book. Islam is an idea. It is perfectly safe and harmless to attack ideas.
In Denmark we've made a porn-movie about the second coming of Christ (come on... the second COMING - it is to obvious to give it a pass), Life of Brian gets shown on national TV every Easter and Christianity is routinely mocked in the media. ...and guess what? No Christians are harmed by that.
The Quran is just a book. You can burn any Quran you want to, as long as you don't burn every Quran. Muslims need to learn that gross disrespect is part and parcel of the religious experience in a secular society.
B.t.w.
http://bohemianrhapsody.dk/english/
In Denmark we've made a porn-movie about the second coming of Christ (come on... the second COMING - it is to obvious to give it a pass), Life of Brian gets shown on national TV every Easter and Christianity is routinely mocked in the media. ...and guess what? No Christians are harmed by that.
The Quran is just a book. You can burn any Quran you want to, as long as you don't burn every Quran. Muslims need to learn that gross disrespect is part and parcel of the religious experience in a secular society.
B.t.w.
http://bohemianrhapsody.dk/english/
16
Come on Dan, of course this will end well!! Islam is a religion of peace!! Remember?? LOL!!!! HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Oh man, someone's gonna lose their head over that!!
Oh man, someone's gonna lose their head over that!!
17
I prefer more creative statements than destructive ones so I loved everybody draw Mohammed day, but burning books is just kind of lame.
How about everybody make Qurogami day!
How about everybody make Qurogami day!
19
@15--Absolutely, and upon reflection on my earlier comment it occurs to me that burning the Koran is also itself a form of free expression that should be protected. I never intended that burning the Koran shouldn't be allowed, just that I would prefer criticism of Islam not take that form , because I'm against burning books generally for historical reasons that I"m sure I don't need to elaborate on.
20
@15 This isn't Denmark, and we haven't made a porn here about the second coming. And I really wouldn't say that reruns of Life of Brian would be on the same level of free expression as burning the Bible.
A protest against this is a matter of tact and tolerance, not free expression. The church members, on their Facebook page, are claiming that they're doing this to free Muslims from Islam because it's an institution of the Devil. They are, pardon the pun, being deliberately inflammatory. We need better relations in this country with Muslims and the Middle East, and a bunch of Quran-burning bible-thumpers aren't helping anyone. Nor is the self-righteous smugness from the non-religious.
A protest against this is a matter of tact and tolerance, not free expression. The church members, on their Facebook page, are claiming that they're doing this to free Muslims from Islam because it's an institution of the Devil. They are, pardon the pun, being deliberately inflammatory. We need better relations in this country with Muslims and the Middle East, and a bunch of Quran-burning bible-thumpers aren't helping anyone. Nor is the self-righteous smugness from the non-religious.
22
I really think it is important to distinguish between burning copies of a book, and burning copies of the book while simultaneously banning said book.
This is an act of protest, and has nothing do with censorship or the nazi-variant of book-burnings.
As for the "It starts with burning books and ends with burning people..."-comment; do you find this also holds true of burning flags (which I'm obviously also cool with), or is it strictly book-burnings that lead to people-burnings? Just curious.
This is an act of protest, and has nothing do with censorship or the nazi-variant of book-burnings.
As for the "It starts with burning books and ends with burning people..."-comment; do you find this also holds true of burning flags (which I'm obviously also cool with), or is it strictly book-burnings that lead to people-burnings? Just curious.
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@20 "Nor is the self-righteous smugness from the non-religious."
@15 Has a valid point, and I don't think he's being smug or self-righteous: You won't get thrown in jail or murdered for burning a bible, but those could be entirely possible outcomes if you burned a Quran. Muslims need to chill out and stop threatening journalists and everyone else who dares make fun of their prophet.
I wish the US were more like Denmark, to be honest. We could learn a lot from the Scandinavian countries (Canada included.)
@15 Has a valid point, and I don't think he's being smug or self-righteous: You won't get thrown in jail or murdered for burning a bible, but those could be entirely possible outcomes if you burned a Quran. Muslims need to chill out and stop threatening journalists and everyone else who dares make fun of their prophet.
I wish the US were more like Denmark, to be honest. We could learn a lot from the Scandinavian countries (Canada included.)
24
@22, it was an emotional comment on my part and I don't think it is necessarily true. I think flag burnings tend to be an act of protest against the state whereas burning Korans seem to be explicitly targeting what, I believe anyway, are a vulnerable minority within the US. That's not to say that I think burning books/flags/ whatever should be outlawed. I do think free speech and protest is always legal. Doesn't mean that I approve of this particular form of free-speech.... I shake my head at it but I want it to stay legal.
25
@22, it was an emotional comment on my part and I don't think it is necessarily true. I think flag burnings tend to be an act of protest against the state whereas burning Korans seem to be explicitly targeting what, I believe anyway, are a vulnerable minority within the US. That's not to say that I think burning books/flags/ whatever should be outlawed. I do think free speech and protest is always legal. Doesn't mean that I approve of this particular form of free-speech.... I shake my head at it but I want it to stay legal.
29
Crusade vs. Jihad: The First-Person-Shooter.
Would some of you game geeks get on this, plz?
There could even be a third team, Praise Science!
Would some of you game geeks get on this, plz?
There could even be a third team, Praise Science!
30
@23 The "self-righteous smugness" comment was aimed more at the people saying things like, "Hey, let's burn all the holy books, not just the Quran!" Burning the Quran, even as a protest and an act of free expression, is still a sign of deep disrespect for Islam. Burning the Bible would be just as disrespectful to Christians. Part of being tolerant is being respectful of people's values, and many people's values are defined by the words of the holy books that are the basis of their religions.
I absolutely agree that Muslims need to chill. But "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" is on a different level than "International Burn A Koran Day." The latter is along the same lines as the Gitmo guards that made Muslim prisoners clean the toilets with the pages of the Quran.
I absolutely agree that Muslims need to chill. But "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" is on a different level than "International Burn A Koran Day." The latter is along the same lines as the Gitmo guards that made Muslim prisoners clean the toilets with the pages of the Quran.
31
@30
Delishuss, I bet we could go out and find a Muslim who would oppose Everybody Draw Mohammed Day, but wouldn't give a toss what you do with your own copy of the Qur'an. Taboos aren't the same for everyone.
And anyways, we shouldn't be respectful of everyone's values; people value all sorts of things we should condemn, hate, oppose with every fibre of our being. Just think about it. If they claim that they actually get their values (like homophobia!) from an old unchanging magic book from God...well, it doesn't help their case.
You can go ahead and tolerate the intolerable, but I'm going to keep judging people by the content of their character.
Delishuss, I bet we could go out and find a Muslim who would oppose Everybody Draw Mohammed Day, but wouldn't give a toss what you do with your own copy of the Qur'an. Taboos aren't the same for everyone.
And anyways, we shouldn't be respectful of everyone's values; people value all sorts of things we should condemn, hate, oppose with every fibre of our being. Just think about it. If they claim that they actually get their values (like homophobia!) from an old unchanging magic book from God...well, it doesn't help their case.
You can go ahead and tolerate the intolerable, but I'm going to keep judging people by the content of their character.
32
Unfortunately it did not take the heat off Molly Norris. She had to go into hiding this week.
Another nail in the coffin for freedom of speech
Another nail in the coffin for freedom of speech
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