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News & ArtsMonday, July 19, 2010
News Um... What?
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 10:35 AM
Not sure how I feel about this...
...a survivor of the Holocaust dances to "I Will Survive" at Auschwitz with his grandchildren.
6
i like the giant fuck you take on this. it's a celebration of life too.
i'm like 90% with that. my only concern is for relatives of those who didn't make it...maybe they might be bummed looking at this.
wait. i'm a relative of those who didn't make it. i think this is awesome.
i'm like 90% with that. my only concern is for relatives of those who didn't make it...maybe they might be bummed looking at this.
wait. i'm a relative of those who didn't make it. i think this is awesome.
8
As long as it was his idea, and not his grandkids, I don't see what the problem is, except for the choreography.
11
You should feel great about this, Dan. The old guy is awesome and his grandkids wouldn't be there if he hadn't survived. Let them dance!
14
I like it. It reminds me of "Diseased Pariah New", the AIDS humor magazine, which basically said "fuck you" to death.
19
This is a dance of triumph. Might have been better done to klezmer music.
I've always thought the executed war criminals from Nuremburg should have been buried in a common grave that was designated as the world's largest outdoor latrine.
I've always thought the executed war criminals from Nuremburg should have been buried in a common grave that was designated as the world's largest outdoor latrine.
21
Freaky. I notice Jews (and sometimes non-Jews) making weird Holocaust related funnies/comments in a way that blacks (and non-blacks) wouldn't make fun of slavery.
There is some facebook page dedicated to Ann Frank jokes. A black woman posted "You can say anything about blacks, hispanics, and Muslims but the minute you make fun of the Holocaust you're a bad person? Pleeease!" So I made an Emitt Till joke, which was quickly removed, and it got me kicked of fb. Hmm.
There is some facebook page dedicated to Ann Frank jokes. A black woman posted "You can say anything about blacks, hispanics, and Muslims but the minute you make fun of the Holocaust you're a bad person? Pleeease!" So I made an Emitt Till joke, which was quickly removed, and it got me kicked of fb. Hmm.
22
Definitely a fuck you to the Nazis. It made me laugh and weep, especially the voiceover at the end.
23
I was going to ask, Hadn't you posted this already, Dan? But then I remembered that someone posted this on Facebook a couple of weeks back. That person said EXACTLY the same thing as Dan.
24
He survived. He has the right to dance on, spit on, or whatever else he wants to do to the place.
I saw the video before I was aware of any controversy and truth be told my eyes teared up in appreciation of the resilience of the human spirit. Dance, Dude. Dance. And thank G-d that you have grandchildren to join in with you!
I saw the video before I was aware of any controversy and truth be told my eyes teared up in appreciation of the resilience of the human spirit. Dance, Dude. Dance. And thank G-d that you have grandchildren to join in with you!
25
@14: go to diseasedpariahnews.com to relive the "bad old days". I'm glad that someone else remembers this.
27
Weird lyrical juxtaposition aside, that absolutely made me cry. That man can dance wherever the hell he wants.
28
Fuck each and every Nazi. Fuck 'em to hell.
On the rare occasion that I see the odd neo-Nazi, my immediate impulse is to shout "YOU MISSED A FEW!!! HAVAH NAGILAH, BITCHES!!!".
@21: Excellent work! But somehow still horrible.
On the rare occasion that I see the odd neo-Nazi, my immediate impulse is to shout "YOU MISSED A FEW!!! HAVAH NAGILAH, BITCHES!!!".
@21: Excellent work! But somehow still horrible.
29
@25 Thanks! I can only handle small doses at a time, but it brings back good memories with the bad, for sure.
30
I think it's great.
But, of course, I find Holocaust humor, AIDS humor, and child abuse humor funny too.
But, of course, I find Holocaust humor, AIDS humor, and child abuse humor funny too.
31
Dan, you should feel that this is awesome. As everyone else said, it's a giant "fuck you" to the Nazis.
32
@3 - the USHMM has it on authority that the Nazis "arrested an estimated 100,000 men as homosexuals. Most of the 50,000 men sentenced by the courts spent time in regular prisons, and between 5,000 and 15,000 were interned in concentration camps." While it's not known how many gay men died, many who survived were sent to prison after the war under paragraph 175.
I would stress that "GLBT folk" is the wrong phrase to use here. It was sex between gay men that was criminalized, not between lesbians, and it was gay men (who were out in the very liberal Weimar Republic) who were rounded up en masse, imprisoned, tortured, experimented on, and killed, not lesbians, who were by and large not regarded as a social and political threat.
This is really one instance (of many) in which gay male history and lesbian history diverge sharply. We can't always be lumped together.
http://mennonnosapiens.com/2010/07/11/th…
I would stress that "GLBT folk" is the wrong phrase to use here. It was sex between gay men that was criminalized, not between lesbians, and it was gay men (who were out in the very liberal Weimar Republic) who were rounded up en masse, imprisoned, tortured, experimented on, and killed, not lesbians, who were by and large not regarded as a social and political threat.
This is really one instance (of many) in which gay male history and lesbian history diverge sharply. We can't always be lumped together.
http://mennonnosapiens.com/2010/07/11/th…
34
@mmennonno re 32
Are you sure about that? There's a brilliant and chilling documentary called The Nazis: A Warning From History that includes contemporary interviews with people who were Nazis or collaborated with the Nazis. One of the things that sticks with me is the story of a woman who appeared to her neighbours to be a lesbian; they turned her over to the Nazis and she was taken away and eventually died in a concentration camp. That can't have been a one-off- why would a bunch of "ordinary" Germans have known that this woman's sexuality (and/or her unusual gender presentation) was something they could turn her in for?
As for the T in GLBT - you can't tell me that transgendered folk of the time weren't lumped right in along with gay and bisexual men - pre-war Germany was rife with all a'that. This I gleaned from a more recent British documentary about the real Berlin scene behind the story of Cabaret where the queers and wild women cavorted and made political satire in the company of the radical political left of the time. Yeah, the Nazis came for them too.
Are you sure about that? There's a brilliant and chilling documentary called The Nazis: A Warning From History that includes contemporary interviews with people who were Nazis or collaborated with the Nazis. One of the things that sticks with me is the story of a woman who appeared to her neighbours to be a lesbian; they turned her over to the Nazis and she was taken away and eventually died in a concentration camp. That can't have been a one-off- why would a bunch of "ordinary" Germans have known that this woman's sexuality (and/or her unusual gender presentation) was something they could turn her in for?
As for the T in GLBT - you can't tell me that transgendered folk of the time weren't lumped right in along with gay and bisexual men - pre-war Germany was rife with all a'that. This I gleaned from a more recent British documentary about the real Berlin scene behind the story of Cabaret where the queers and wild women cavorted and made political satire in the company of the radical political left of the time. Yeah, the Nazis came for them too.
35
Some people will be offended. He's the survivor and he can celebrate that with his grandchildren any way he wants. Other survivors might not want to celebrate that way. Don't watch.
@21 blacks use the word nigger/niggah over and over as if saying it themselves somehow makes it less offensive. Many argue that they have the right to say it; that it is their word to own. I don't agree with that, but I'm not black/african american. It isn't my call.
I'd say that this survivor's dancing with his descendants at this place of horror is more similar to the use of nigger/niggah than making a joke.
@21 blacks use the word nigger/niggah over and over as if saying it themselves somehow makes it less offensive. Many argue that they have the right to say it; that it is their word to own. I don't agree with that, but I'm not black/african american. It isn't my call.
I'd say that this survivor's dancing with his descendants at this place of horror is more similar to the use of nigger/niggah than making a joke.
36
Inglorious Bastards was a giant "fuck you" to the Nazis. This is just insensitive and in bad taste.
I can't tell someone what to do, but I can't look at the Holocaust as anything but somber. I worry for future generations who have no living survivors who really don't understand what happened there and think that this type of remembrance is appropriate.
I can't tell someone what to do, but I can't look at the Holocaust as anything but somber. I worry for future generations who have no living survivors who really don't understand what happened there and think that this type of remembrance is appropriate.
38
To anyone who doesn't "get it".... take the stick out of your ass and join the survivors in a celebration of life.
Because that's what this is.
A celebration of survival and yeah, one big FUCK YOU to the Nazis.
Because that's what this is.
A celebration of survival and yeah, one big FUCK YOU to the Nazis.
39
Inglorious Bastards was, at best, insensitive and in bad taste.
This man survived the Holocaust, he can dance anywhere he wants.
This man survived the Holocaust, he can dance anywhere he wants.
40
I agree with others here, dude survived Auschwitz he can dance his freaky ol' heart out. It really doesn't matter what you or anyone feels about it, it's just DANCING fer chrissake!
44
Seeing this video I am reminded of Emma Goldman, who said "If I can't dance I don't want to be in your revolution." As a Jew and a gay man whose grandparents fled Germany in 1933, I say Zadie has earned this small bit of revolutionary nose-thumbing at the enemy. And by the way, that wasn't the original Gloria Gaynor version of "I will survive," it was a cover. Judging from the all male chorus, I'll bet it's probably from an American gay men's chorus. Nice touch, no?
46
If it was just the old guy I'm not sure how I'd feel about it, probably that it's okay. But the fact that he's still alive, and is dancing with his daughter and some of his grandchildren, really celebrates the fact that the Nazi attempt at genocide was unsuccessful. He's doing a 'fuck you' dance at the scene of his struggle.
Right on, old dude!
Right on, old dude!
47
My natural reaction was joy - joy at seeing this man (alongside his grandchildren, who wouldn't exist if it weren't for his survival) thumb his nose at those who perpetrated atrocities at many of those sites.
I'm not related (that I know of) to any holocaust survivors, but as far as I know myself, I'm pretty confident that I'd want to be right there, dancing with my grandmother or grandfather. And if I was related to a deceased victim, I would simply be glad that *someone* was there, presenting a small expression of celebration and triumph over the defeat of the bastards and regime that was responsible.
I found his statement at the very end especially moving.
I'm not related (that I know of) to any holocaust survivors, but as far as I know myself, I'm pretty confident that I'd want to be right there, dancing with my grandmother or grandfather. And if I was related to a deceased victim, I would simply be glad that *someone* was there, presenting a small expression of celebration and triumph over the defeat of the bastards and regime that was responsible.
I found his statement at the very end especially moving.
48
Mmm, maybe it's the alcohol, but I'm all giggly over this. Even though they're all terrible dancers <3
49
@ 34
32 is correct. There was only a handful of women - I want to say five, but I the documentary I saw about it on LOGO was several years ago - who were put in concentration camps *because* they were lesbians. This is not to say that other gender/sexuality-deviant women were not rounded up as well, but they were not specifically registered as lesbians. They were put down as Communists or dissidents or whatever.
32 is correct. There was only a handful of women - I want to say five, but I the documentary I saw about it on LOGO was several years ago - who were put in concentration camps *because* they were lesbians. This is not to say that other gender/sexuality-deviant women were not rounded up as well, but they were not specifically registered as lesbians. They were put down as Communists or dissidents or whatever.
50
This reminds me of the film La Vita è Bella, one of the most beautiful films I have ever seen. I visited Auschwitz last year and I have to say that beauty can be found even there. The fields are absolutely covered in flowers. I like to think of it as a natural memorial to the lives lost. A beacon of hope that no matter what atrocities occur, recovery is not only possible, but imminent. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118799/
52
As far as I know, I had no relatives in the Holocast as the last Jewish ancestors of mine were kicked out of Spain during the Inquistion in 1492.
I don't know how it would feel to lose most of your family to a fearful, hateful regime. But I've lost a child myself and however you grieve and however you celebrate life is fine with me - more power to you and you alone know what is the right way to move ahead and beyond your former tormentors.
I don't know how it would feel to lose most of your family to a fearful, hateful regime. But I've lost a child myself and however you grieve and however you celebrate life is fine with me - more power to you and you alone know what is the right way to move ahead and beyond your former tormentors.
55
I have been to 2 concentration camps "Buchenwald" and "Sachsenhausen". I touched the ovens, the rooms for shooting into the necks, walked through the empty barracks. I saw the hills of shoes, pants, hats.
They did not. Survive.
They did not. Survive.
56
The message the Jews at the camps imbued in each other was "survive". This gentleman survived horrors that we cannot even comprehend and, not only that, went on to find joy in life through family. His dancing with his grandchildren at Auschwitz commemorates the many innocents whose voices and lives were stilled at this horrible place and brings joy and happiness to obliterate the memories of death and terror. He bears witness that he did survive and that love and happiness does conquer. The Jews, and myself (a non-Jew), toast L'Chaim; it means "to Life". L'Chaim my Brother, thank you for surviving and not losing faith in humanity and for passing this message on to your children and grandchildren. Mazel Tov!
57
He's a better man than I am. My visit to Sachsenhausen ended three minutes after I stepped past it's boundaries and my brain decided to order my heart to pump as much blood into my head as possible. My first and only migraine (with extra nausea and vomiting to boot!) If he's old enough to be a Holocaust survivor, and he was lucky enough to have children and grandchildren, then he should dance as much as he likes however he likes for as long as he likes.
58
Dude survived the most systematic genocide of the 20th century, he gets to dance wherever and to whatever the fuck he wants. That's just how it works.
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