Slog
News & ArtsThursday, July 15, 2010
Sex The Last Word On Monogamy, Non-monogamy, Sex at Dawn, Early-Morning, Mid-Morning, Late-Morning, Lunchtime, Teatime, Dinnertime, Bedtime, Etc.
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 1:06 PM
A "Savage Love" reader writes...
When you cannot get any, you cannot get any on the side. Thanks for listening to my rant.
1
I can't believe I haven't thought about this more (where this = the people who are constantly telling me and mine how we should live our sex lives are the people who can't get any)
3
In other words, people who are happy and content with their sex lives, whatever they may be, are less inclined to critique or obsess over the sex lives of others. Sounds right to me. That would explain a lot of the bullshit spewed by the religious right.
4
Ha! I guess someone who has a hard time finding love--or at least someone to have sex with--would be pretty annoyed hearing all about open relationships, multiple partners, poly-amorous relationships, etc. Would be like if Marie Antoinette said to a starving french peasant, "Just go ahead and eat cake. And a lovely chocolate croissant. And some duck confit. Then perhaps a leg of lamb and beef bourguignon, and..oooh, are these truffles? I love truffles, you should try truffles sometime. nom nom nom."
6
It also explains why they cling to monogamy when they do finally find someone. They're terrified of losing that one person who sees something in them/puts up with them.
7
@Vince,
I wish I was a guy, because you enchant me with your words. Instead, I'm a woman who is crazy for men. But, if I was a man...
I wish I was a guy, because you enchant me with your words. Instead, I'm a woman who is crazy for men. But, if I was a man...
8
@1, @6- Not at all. There are plenty of us who "can't" find someone to love/ be involved/ have sex with, are thoroughly jealous and... that's it.
Certainly there are those who fall in the "misery loves company" category... but in this context (A SL reader...), it seems @4 probably had the "correct" interpretation to the quote.
"Yes, you have a terrible problem. You poor, poor thing. How horrible that you are having problems balancing your ability to love/have sex with multiple people. Now shut the fuck up."
Certainly there are those who fall in the "misery loves company" category... but in this context (A SL reader...), it seems @4 probably had the "correct" interpretation to the quote.
"Yes, you have a terrible problem. You poor, poor thing. How horrible that you are having problems balancing your ability to love/have sex with multiple people. Now shut the fuck up."
10
As a content monogamist who hasn't chimed in to rant against Sex at Dawn (and won't), I'd like to point out: some people are good at monogamy, some aren't. Some desire it, some don't. Why is this so hard to understand?
All monogamists aren't sex-starved, self-righteous assholes any more than all polys/cheaters are nymphomaniacal pieces of shit.
All monogamists aren't sex-starved, self-righteous assholes any more than all polys/cheaters are nymphomaniacal pieces of shit.
11
@8 - Much like the person struggling with their weight with the rail thin and gorgeous friend who constantly complains about not being able to gain a pound:
"You there, eating three donuts and complaining about your ass being too small - shut the fuck up!"
"You there, eating three donuts and complaining about your ass being too small - shut the fuck up!"
12
@11- That, too. In the words of William Goldman:
"Why don't you just give me a nice paper cut and pour lemon juice on it?"
"Why don't you just give me a nice paper cut and pour lemon juice on it?"
13
There you go again, Schmooze, with your rational, balanced, non-hysterical prose.
My crush deepens.
My crush deepens.
14
@3 people who are happy and content with their sex lives, whatever they may be, are less inclined to critique or obsess over the sex lives of others.
OMG, I think I just realized why I spend so much time here in Savage Love.
OMG, I think I just realized why I spend so much time here in Savage Love.
15
@4: SHE NEVER SAID "LET THEM EAT CAKE"
misquote!! MISSSS QUUUUOOOTTTEEE
... I think I have done my history degree justice today...
misquote!! MISSSS QUUUUOOOTTTEEE
... I think I have done my history degree justice today...
19
I think @4 and the clarification provided by @8 have hit the nail. Nice blow, y'all.
Of course, Sex at Dawn argues that if we were true to our forager roots, no one would be unable to get any, and everyone would be getting some.
It also clearly states that evolution has continued for the 10,000 years since we changed to a monogamous/property based culture. That means that you (@10) self-righteous, sex-starved asshole manogamists just might be following culturally selected genetic norms just like us nymphomaniacal piece of shit poly/cheaters could be following ours.
Amazing, how they argue for both.
Of course, Sex at Dawn argues that if we were true to our forager roots, no one would be unable to get any, and everyone would be getting some.
It also clearly states that evolution has continued for the 10,000 years since we changed to a monogamous/property based culture. That means that you (@10) self-righteous, sex-starved asshole manogamists just might be following culturally selected genetic norms just like us nymphomaniacal piece of shit poly/cheaters could be following ours.
Amazing, how they argue for both.
20
@ 10
As a content monogamist who hasn't chimed in to rant against Sex at Dawn (and won't)...
Exactly. Content, happy, secure monogamists don't freak out over nonmonogamy - they're much more likely to be among those who fall into the live-and-let-live camp. And I say this as a monogamous lass myself. (Granted, being a lesbian makes it a bit easier - women in general seem to be more inclined toward monogamy than men.)
As a content monogamist who hasn't chimed in to rant against Sex at Dawn (and won't)...
Exactly. Content, happy, secure monogamists don't freak out over nonmonogamy - they're much more likely to be among those who fall into the live-and-let-live camp. And I say this as a monogamous lass myself. (Granted, being a lesbian makes it a bit easier - women in general seem to be more inclined toward monogamy than men.)
23
@20 "(Granted, being a lesbian makes it a bit easier - women in general seem to be more inclined toward monogamy than men.)"
Women in general seemed to be more -socialized- toward monogamy, you mean. I'm female, and I'm not too hot on the idea. I'm also disinclined to accept any inherent biological gender differences regarding personality, but that's just my opinion.
I also agree with @6 that people who cling to monogamy, people who flip shit over open/poly relationships, have some issues with insecurity. YES, many people just prefer monogamy, but I'll never trust a -jealous- person to be 'just' jealous.
Women in general seemed to be more -socialized- toward monogamy, you mean. I'm female, and I'm not too hot on the idea. I'm also disinclined to accept any inherent biological gender differences regarding personality, but that's just my opinion.
I also agree with @6 that people who cling to monogamy, people who flip shit over open/poly relationships, have some issues with insecurity. YES, many people just prefer monogamy, but I'll never trust a -jealous- person to be 'just' jealous.
25
@4 @8
I would have posted the same thing if there was not a huge time zone difference ( I am in Europe and I have 10 hours gap).
I avoided participating in the non-monogamous/monogamous civil war because i could not offer any useful insight.Being out of date/love/sex scene for almost 3 decades , i am finding that kind of debate surreal
I would have posted the same thing if there was not a huge time zone difference ( I am in Europe and I have 10 hours gap).
I avoided participating in the non-monogamous/monogamous civil war because i could not offer any useful insight.Being out of date/love/sex scene for almost 3 decades , i am finding that kind of debate surreal
27
Maybe male capability with monogamy is a function of brain chemistry or testosterone level. I've found it has become easier as I've aged. It can't be sex drive, that is as strong as ever. Although the physical ability to have repeated intercourse has decreased and the recovery time between has increased with age.
29
@ 23 - It may be (and, in fact, almost certainly is) true that women are socialized to be more monogamous than men, but men and women are wired differently in a whole host of ways - gender is partially a social construct, but certainly not entirely. I mean, if being raised male was what made you male, and being raised female was what made you female, how can we account for (for instance) transsexuality? The hormonal environment of the womb does a lot to alter brain chemistry, which manifests itself in part in personality differences.
My guess would be that the female tendency toward monogamy is partially biological and partially social - but that's just a guess. Who knows? Honestly, lesbians - even femmey types like yours truly - have already violated cultural norms of femininity simply by virtue of not being with men.
In any event, the origins of that inclination seem to be beside the point. As a practical matter, whether its biological, social, or both, most women I know, gay or straight, tend to prefer monogamy (with exceptions made for things like the occasional threesome). With lesbians, you've got an exclusively female sexual dynamic, which means you're probably going to see more comfort with monogamy.
Don't take this to mean that women who are more nonmonogamous are somehow unfeminine, or that monogamous men aren't fully masculine; that's not what I mean at all. I'm just observing trends.
My guess would be that the female tendency toward monogamy is partially biological and partially social - but that's just a guess. Who knows? Honestly, lesbians - even femmey types like yours truly - have already violated cultural norms of femininity simply by virtue of not being with men.
In any event, the origins of that inclination seem to be beside the point. As a practical matter, whether its biological, social, or both, most women I know, gay or straight, tend to prefer monogamy (with exceptions made for things like the occasional threesome). With lesbians, you've got an exclusively female sexual dynamic, which means you're probably going to see more comfort with monogamy.
Don't take this to mean that women who are more nonmonogamous are somehow unfeminine, or that monogamous men aren't fully masculine; that's not what I mean at all. I'm just observing trends.
30
@29, I agree with your assertion that women tend to be monogamously-inclined more often than men, but I disagree with your reasoning. I know this is just the tired old nature v nurture debate, but I just can't see a preference for one type of social construction (monogamy) over another (polygamy, agamy) as a dichotomous sex-hormone trait. Perhaps it is related to testosterone/estrogen levels, but I've known enough female football players and male hair dressers to be wary of scientific discourse. That's just my thoroughly skeptical personality influencing my opinion, though.
31
Or, yookah, in support of your position: Let us assume that women do tend to be monogamous more often than men, and let's assume that this is (at least partly) motivated by hormonal differences. So what? All in all, throughout life, we're always dealing with individuals. Each and every one of us is atypical (non-mainstream, not in the majority group) in something, or from some point of view. If the woman you're dealing with happens to be a non-monogamous one, pointing out that she is member of a smaller group than non-monogamous men isn't going to change a damn thing about how you should deal with her. Or she with you, for that matter.
32
@11 that analogy isn't correct. if the problem was that a person was having *too much* sex contrasted with a person who can't get enough sex, then the analogy would be accurate.
a better analogy would be someone who can't get enough to eat, and a person who can't decide whether or not to have the blueberry or apple pie for desert.
this is because the problem of "not enough sex at home so i cheat" is different from "i get enough sex at home but i want to cheat anyway." the former isn't a problem of a dysfunction in the marriage, and the latter is the true non-monogamous person.
a better analogy would be someone who can't get enough to eat, and a person who can't decide whether or not to have the blueberry or apple pie for desert.
this is because the problem of "not enough sex at home so i cheat" is different from "i get enough sex at home but i want to cheat anyway." the former isn't a problem of a dysfunction in the marriage, and the latter is the true non-monogamous person.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Hating People Doesn't Make Them Thinner by Jen Graves
-
Los Angeles Gay Bar Bans Bachelorette Parties Until Marriage Equality Is Attained by David Schmader
-
Fill in the Blank by Grant Brissey
-
This Reminds Me of the Great Calculator Scare of the Late '70s/Early '80s by David Schmader
-
Idiot Tries to Defend Bigoted Anti-Gay-Marriage Preacher on Anderson Cooper by Paul Constant
-
Six Moms with Too Much Time on Their Hands and a Shitty Website Decide to Fight Gay Superheroes by Paul Constant
-
The Saturday Morning News by Unpaid Intern
-
Why Mayor McGinn's Wife Canceled Her Family's Seattle Times Subscription by Eli Sanders
-
What the Hell Is Wrong With Seattle's Pride Parade? by Dominic Holden
-
NYC Man Ticketed for Not Riding in the Bike Lane by Jonathan Golob
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (32) RSS