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News & ArtsSaturday, May 22, 2010
Religion Who Is Pastor Jeff Owens?
Posted by Dan Savage on Sat, May 22, 2010 at 10:24 AM
We need to stop burning flags and start burning fags. We need hunt-a-homo week. We need to take 'em all out and shoot 'em with a scatter shotgun: that's Christian compassion for you all right. Now for all you moderate Christians offended by this sort of thing—by Owens' sermon, by my posting about it—if you want to tell anyone that Owens doesn't speak for all Christians, go tell Owens. I'm sick of hearing it, frankly, and Owens needs to hear it. And you can reach Pastor Compassion at...
Shenandoah Bible Baptist Church
“One of America’s Most Exciting Churches”
2251 Williamsport Pike
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25404
PHONE: 304-263-3461
FAX: 304-263-0151
Listen to that sermon again—listen to Pastor Owens crank up his congregation, listen to Jesus's followers scream and cheer when their loving, compassionate pastor encourages them to get out there and murder gays and lesbians. That's the kind of rally—so Nuremburgish—that gets innocent people killed. Listen to that sermon again. And then give the vile piece of shit a call: 304-263-3461.
Via JMG.
UPDATE: I wonder if Pastor Owens recorded the above sermon before or after he recorded this one:
UPDATE 2: The YouTube video of Pastor Owens urging his flock to get out there and commit hate crimes—murder is a hate crime, right?—has been yanked. Hopefully someone dubbed it. The quotes above are verbatim, and not "taken out of context." I don't know how you could put "we need to stop burning flags and start burning fags" in a context that makes it less of an incitement to commit a hate crime. Also: in the deleted clip Pastor Owens used some of the same language and arguments he made in his sodomy sermon: we need to shove this sin back in the closet, gay people wouldn't be coming out at all if more Christians stood up to them.
Because, hey, when was the last time Christians stood up to the gays anyway. We've been getting a free pass from the Christians for, oh, the last two thousand or so years, right?
UPDATE 3: Someone reading JMG was wise enough to make a copy before it got yanked. You can download your own copy of the tape Pastor Owens doesn't want you to hear here. Will post the video to Slog once I figure out how to do that.
UPDATE 4: The video is back up courtesy of JoeMyGod...
Shenandoah Baptist Church's Pastor Jeff Owens: BURN AND SHOOT FAGS! from Joe Jervis on Vimeo.
UPDATE 5: Pastor Owens' anti-gay rant now available as an MP3.
UPDATE 6: Future Youth Pastor Watch Inductee?
This wild-eyed fundy is the youth pastor at Shenandoah Bible Baptist Church. His name is Brother Joshua Owens and presumably he's the offspring of Dr. Jeff Owens, the gay-bashing, violence-inciting bigot who "leads" Shenandoah Baptist. I have a feeling we'll be hearing more from Brother Joshua in the future. Something about those eyes.
UPDATE 7: Via Slog commenter IGUB: While Dr. Jeff Owens was preaching (hate), at least one of his kids was preying (on kids)...
A 22-year-old Martinsburg man charged last year with having sex with two teenage girls in Berkeley County has agreed to a plea offer from the county prosecutor’s office. Jeremiah Daniel Owens pleaded guilty to two counts of sexual assault charges from an eight-count indictment handed up in October 2007 that charged him with sexual assault and sexual abuse against two girls, ages 15 and 13, and that stemmed from separate incidents earlier that year.... According to a previous report, the mother of the 13-year-old, whose name will not be published to protect her identity, said her daughter met Owens at the Shenandoah Bible Baptist Church in Martinsburg where Owens’ father is the pastor.
Dr. Jeff Owens' book Character Lessons for Children is available for sale now.
UPDATE 8: Slog readers who wrote to Dr. Jeff Owens via Shenandoah Bible Baptist Church's website to register their disgust with his sermon calling for the murder of out gay men and lesbians have been getting this email back from Owens:
Nearly 15 years ago I preached a sermon that promoted physically hurting gay people. I was young, stupid and immature. I didn’t even hold to the belief of hurting people when I wrongly made those comments. I regret those words and have asked God to forgive me for them. I am not a believer in the gay life-style but I was profoundly wrong in making any comments about hurting people. If I could retract those words I certainly would.I wrongly represented both God and myself. I truly believe that God is a God of LOVE. I believe he loves the whole world even when people in the world do things that are wrong; Such as my wrong representation of how to treat someone who does not believe the same way I do.
I no longer preach like that and I purposely teach and train others to preach and behave properly as well. The hurtful words in that sermon tape were erased many years ago and somehow have resurfaced much to my disappointment and embarrassment. I realize I have disappointed many who have heard those words in that sermon. May I include my disappointment in myself. Once again, I offer my humble apology.
With a sincere heart,
Jeff Owens
Stupid and immature I'll give him—but young?
Owens looks to be in his fifties, judging from the photo here. And according to his bio Owen has been "preaching the Gospel since 1976." So he had been a preacher for nearly two decades when he delivered his soon-to-be-infamous sermon way, way back in 1995. So, again, stupid and immature—and hateful and vile and disgusting—we can give him. But the man wasn't young.
I sent Dr. Owens an email asking for an interview. I'd like him to walk me—and all of you—through how he got from kill-the-gays to tolerate-the-gays-but-condemn-their-lifestyle. What changed him? Who touched his heart? What was his yellow-brick-road-to-Damascus moment like? My email to Dr. Owens is after the jump. I'll let you know if I hear back from him.
And here's my email to him:
dr. owens,my name is dan savage and i'm a writer, author, editor and... blogger. along with Joe Jervis, I posted that YouTube clip of your sermon today, the one where you seemed to be calling on your congregants to literally murder out gay men and lesbians. i understand that you've received numerous emails and calls as a result of your old sermon appearing on our websites today, and that you've responded directly to people who've reached out to you, disavowing that old sermon.
I was curious if you still believed the things you espoused in that sermon. earlier today i posted a link to what turned out to be a later sermon, one in which you explicity stated that harming gay people — or our property — was a sin. i pointed out the discrepancy between those two sermons. my post is here:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2010/05/22/who-is-pastor-jeff-owens
i would like to interview you for my blog, perhaps for my column, about that old sermon. i realize that you'll most likely regard my post and the updates, if you read them all the way through, as snarky and highly disrespectful. sorry about that. but so long as you're out there condemning my "lifestyle" — and you do continue to condemn my "lifestyle," whatever that means, even if you are no longer calling on your followers to actually murder me — i feel justified in subjecting you to a little sarcasm.
anyway, dr. owens, if you would like to talk about that old sermon, what you were thinking when you delivered it, what you're thinking now, and if you would like to walk my readers through how your thinking evolved — how you got from openly advocating murder to instructing your followers to be tolerant — i would happily make some space available. you can take this as an opportunity to apologize to folks who were offended by your old sermon but also, around the edges, to do a little evangelizing in a place — my blog — where that sort of thing rarely ever happens.
let me know.
dan savage
editorial director
"the stranger"
1
no answer.....I will call later. Apparently the cell phone doesn't have a voice mail box. VM must be too "gay".
2
In much the same way as all Americans are judged overseas for the misdeeds of some of our citizens, all Christians are judged by the misdeeds of their fellow Christians.
Christians: if you're tired of being linked by faith with monsters like this, it's time to drive the moneylenders from your temple & defy the Pharisees (again).
Christians: if you're tired of being linked by faith with monsters like this, it's time to drive the moneylenders from your temple & defy the Pharisees (again).
6
@5 He's probably out having his luggage lifted. Seriously, it wouldn't surprise me if it were true.
7
Cato, you can't figure out why when you call they don't answer or let you leave a message, and that makes THEM "technologically retarded"?
Awesome.
Awesome.
8
I just called and got someone who said the tape must be edited in some way.
He was very civil...I directed him to the Slog, which he said was full of "guilt words." I told him I was much more worried about threats of violence against me and my family than I was about guilt words.
In any case, be nice but firm.
He was very civil...I directed him to the Slog, which he said was full of "guilt words." I told him I was much more worried about threats of violence against me and my family than I was about guilt words.
In any case, be nice but firm.
13
Here is the message "no mail box for this number..the voice mail box for this cell phone number has not been set up" So yes Gloomy Gus, the guy IS technologically retarded. Please make a note of it
14
I wonder how long Dan would be a free man if he called on all the gays to go out and start murdering Christians.
15
@13, I'd post a snappier reply but I'm having a hot flash. I give you huge points for calling the number, don't get me wrong.
18
If he was as passionate about heterosexual sex as he is with his sermon, then he wouldn't have all this pent-up energy to manage belting out such a sermon.
23
we're scaring them because they know we're winning. sadly, that means they're getting more violent...
24
With the big-haired, Tammy Faye-like wife he's got, who could blame him for hiring a rent-boy? "Don't forget to kill-a-fag-a-day, while he licks my hole, you loving christians, you."
25
Grr...Cato the Younger Younger's right. They're hard to get in touch with by phone. Writing a letter now. Not sure whether to send it by fax or snail mail. Advantage of snail mail is I could put a CD copy of the audio, just in case they keep on trying to remove all evidence of ever having preached this sermon.
26
@23, But they keep reproducing and training newbies for their perverted cause. Have you checked out that church's website? Very scary...
27
You just gotta ask yourself- How many fags would Jesus burn and shoot with a shotgun?
This one needs to be taken out, or at least kidnapped and given what he needs for a few hours.
This one needs to be taken out, or at least kidnapped and given what he needs for a few hours.
28
I was able to speak to someone at the "church". This person said that he'd known Owens for 20 years and he'd never heard of him preaching the sermon that I listened to on the link provided.
As a gay Christian I am OUTRAGED at what was said!!! I cannot believe anyone would say these things. You know, the book of Numbers (3:10) indicates that people who aren't not authorized to preach the gospel shall be put to death. And since this verse, along with that hateful Leviticus verse, comes from the Torah (and since I'm guessing that Jeff Owen--won't call him a pastor--didn't attend Hebrew school), he isn't authorized to preach the gospel. So, if we go by his own words, then HE is also an abomination and should be put to death.
Now, just so there is no confusion, Christians believe (as do I) that Christ's death ended the Mosaic laws--the ones banning homosexuality, eating shellfish, wearing clothes of mixed fiber, etc. So, I'm not suggesting that anyone go out and shoot Jeff Owens. However, he needs to watch what he's trying to persuade other to do to gays. That Old Testament can cut both ways.
As a gay Christian I am OUTRAGED at what was said!!! I cannot believe anyone would say these things. You know, the book of Numbers (3:10) indicates that people who aren't not authorized to preach the gospel shall be put to death. And since this verse, along with that hateful Leviticus verse, comes from the Torah (and since I'm guessing that Jeff Owen--won't call him a pastor--didn't attend Hebrew school), he isn't authorized to preach the gospel. So, if we go by his own words, then HE is also an abomination and should be put to death.
Now, just so there is no confusion, Christians believe (as do I) that Christ's death ended the Mosaic laws--the ones banning homosexuality, eating shellfish, wearing clothes of mixed fiber, etc. So, I'm not suggesting that anyone go out and shoot Jeff Owens. However, he needs to watch what he's trying to persuade other to do to gays. That Old Testament can cut both ways.
29
If you follow joe.my.god's links, one is to his speaking schedule. He will be in Marysville this January. Someone in Seattle needs to organize the welcome wagon....
http://www.owenspublications.com/calenda…
http://www.owenspublications.com/calenda…
31
"serves as a suburb of Washington D.C."
Ummm... horseshit. Martinsburg, West Virginia is a suburb of Washington, DC, kind of like Ellensburg is a suburb of Seattle. Sure, there are some people who will drive 2 hours in off peak or 3 hours in rush to get there, but that doesn't make them in its suburbs.
Ummm... horseshit. Martinsburg, West Virginia is a suburb of Washington, DC, kind of like Ellensburg is a suburb of Seattle. Sure, there are some people who will drive 2 hours in off peak or 3 hours in rush to get there, but that doesn't make them in its suburbs.
33
@ 19 - Truckstop Cocksucker would make a pretty great band name.
@ 31 - Agreed. It's true that Martinsburg is on the panhandle, and isn't in the deep, dark heart of West Virginia, but it's definitely not part of the DC Metro area.
@ 31 - Agreed. It's true that Martinsburg is on the panhandle, and isn't in the deep, dark heart of West Virginia, but it's definitely not part of the DC Metro area.
34
Forgive me for mischaracterizing Martinsburg. I was going off Owens' description of the place on his church's website.
35
@26
The reason why LGBT are more accepted is _because_ of the young people. Poll after poll proves that the majority of people who oppose granting civil rights to LGBT are 65+. Yes, some kids learn to hate, but far more kids out there are learning to accept, if not embrace. They've been doing that for a long time, and those kids are voting.
The reason why LGBT are more accepted is _because_ of the young people. Poll after poll proves that the majority of people who oppose granting civil rights to LGBT are 65+. Yes, some kids learn to hate, but far more kids out there are learning to accept, if not embrace. They've been doing that for a long time, and those kids are voting.
36
I think his wife is physically restraining him in that photo. She knows that if she lets go for one second, he'll be off and running for the nearest truckstop bathroom.
37
@ 34 - Oh, I see. It's odd, though. Why would Owens go out of his way to associate his town with that godless mecca of beltway insiders and married sodomites?
38
hey all--
if you can't get a hold of dear Pastor Owens via phone, go on the website. On the "Contact Cs" link, there is an email form ready and waiting.
if you can't get a hold of dear Pastor Owens via phone, go on the website. On the "Contact Cs" link, there is an email form ready and waiting.
40
Downloaded and saved to come back and haunt this asshole one day.
I wish I had thought to download those idiots in Texas.
I won't make that mistake again.
I wish I had thought to download those idiots in Texas.
I won't make that mistake again.
42
Dan, this is absolutely the way you should be handling these things. Show us how hateful and ridiculous they are, and along with it, give us their contact info, so we can call or email while we're still pissed off. Thank you. And as @8 says, be firm but nice.
43
Sunday
9:45 AM - Sunday School
10:45 AM - Morning Service
5:45 PM - King's Kids
6:00 PM - Young Fundamentalists
7:00 PM - Evening Service
You seem to be right, Cato. but i would like to point out that opposite marriage is legal in DC. Just so we can keep this radical asshole in perspective.
9:45 AM - Sunday School
10:45 AM - Morning Service
5:45 PM - King's Kids
6:00 PM - Young Fundamentalists
7:00 PM - Evening Service
You seem to be right, Cato. but i would like to point out that opposite marriage is legal in DC. Just so we can keep this radical asshole in perspective.
44
Hah, non-opposite marriage I mean. The government now legally recognizes that which he hates, and his type are losing ground every day. Many of the young he indoctrinates will go off to college or into the world and realize how very wrong they have been. I just hope no one dies because of his vile words.
45
Can you get a more obvious closet case? All this "REAL men aren't gay" bullshit.
And being married to the world's most obviously mannish beard certainly doesn't help the guy. Her jawline makes Kurt Russel look like Miss fucking America.
And being married to the world's most obviously mannish beard certainly doesn't help the guy. Her jawline makes Kurt Russel look like Miss fucking America.
46
The mountains of Appalachia will eventually become our own domestic Afghanistan, a technologically and intellectually backward haven for radical religious terrorist cells hiding out in caves and protected by sympathizers.
47
I think this "Pastor" should be turned into "El Pastor" rotating ever-so-slowly over the fires of a great gay/pagan/lesbian/drumcircle bonfire.
(El Pastor: spit-roasted pork)
(El Pastor: spit-roasted pork)
48
Just wondering does this guy even know/ studied his Bible? - he states he wants to speak truth well here is truth for him God Loves Us All regardless of Sexuality WE ALL are Created Equal in God's Eyes and "Thou Shall Not Commit Murder" is one of God's 10 Commandments. It also states "Judge not others lest you be judged". I'm not going to judge him or his motives but I will defend the Baptist Religion and I believe that these sermons has badly misrepresented the Baptist Religion as a whole being raised Baptist and attending other religions services None has Ever taught me it was O.k. to commit crimes against a neighbor for having a difference of opinion or lifestyle, I was always taught "Love thy neighbor " and walk among those who need guidance so that they may learn of God through example. Just wondering what example will the congregation follow? What they hear being said by their leader or what they see for themselves ? I just pray they all make the right decision cause Murder is a Crime .
50
@34 and 37 -- there is a commuter rail line between DC and Martinsburg, so at least some people who live in Martinsburg are treating it as a suburb of DC. Real estate in DC and its actual suburbs is still expensive, and people who work in DC have been moving further and further out.
51
I just want to say for the record that this asshole doesn't speak for the whole of the fine state of West Virginia. There was an attempt at a DOMA-esque law in 2010, but it never even made it out of committee in Charleston.
I just think that West Virginians, having mostly been the butt of jokes, have developed a great "live and let live" mentality.
I just think that West Virginians, having mostly been the butt of jokes, have developed a great "live and let live" mentality.
52
I'm ashamed of him and for him. I'm sorry that such evil could be expressed by one who believes that he represents Jesus to the world. And, that his audience were so thrilled by his hatred, violence, bigotry and homophobia and applauded it.
I got through to the churches voice mail and left a message. I sent an email. I've posted a link of his speech to all my Christian friends.
Nothing left to say, but that this depresses me deeply.
I got through to the churches voice mail and left a message. I sent an email. I've posted a link of his speech to all my Christian friends.
Nothing left to say, but that this depresses me deeply.
54
Vince,
What about caller I.D.? I think I'm missing something.
I had to leave my information to send the email. I'm not afraid to engage these people. Because, if I hold my tongue then I've consented to condone it. And, I just can't do that.
What about caller I.D.? I think I'm missing something.
I had to leave my information to send the email. I'm not afraid to engage these people. Because, if I hold my tongue then I've consented to condone it. And, I just can't do that.
55
Jeff Owens has written to me after I sent him a quick email expressing my disdain for his rhetoric.
"Dear Friend,
Please accept my apology for that sermon. It was preached nearly 15 years ago and I have great regret for it. I do not feel that way and teach to the contrary. I was young, dumb and influenced negatively. I look back at it with disgust my self.
Jeff Owens"
"Dear Friend,
Please accept my apology for that sermon. It was preached nearly 15 years ago and I have great regret for it. I do not feel that way and teach to the contrary. I was young, dumb and influenced negatively. I look back at it with disgust my self.
Jeff Owens"
56
I learned something about myself today. I learned that I now truly assume these people are sexually fucked up. As I clicked to go under the fold, I wondered casually "hmm, wonder what geder, age group, state of consent and/or kink" fully expecting to see another Rekers/Haggard et. al. I at least wasn't being snarky, I honestly thought it was going to be another outing.
A few more and people at large will automatically start hiding their children from homophobes by pure instinct.
A few more and people at large will automatically start hiding their children from homophobes by pure instinct.
57
I just emailed him to express how ashamed I am as a Christian and American to be associated with his sort of Christian. This is what I got in reply:
"Nearly 15 years ago I preached a sermon that promoted physically hurting gay people. I was young, stupid and immature. I didn’t even hold to the belief of hurting people when I wrongly made those comments. I regret those words and have asked God to forgive me for them. I am not a believer in the gay life-style but I was profoundly wrong in making any comments about hurting people. If I could retract those words I certainly would.
I wrongly represented both God and myself. I truly believe that God is a God of LOVE. I believe he loves the whole world even when people in the world do things that are wrong; Such as my wrong representation of how to treat someone who does not believe the same way I do.
I no longer preach like that and I purposely teach and train others to preach and behave properly as well. The hurtful words in that sermon tape were erased many years ago and somehow have resurfaced much to my disappointment and embarrassment.
I realize I have disappointed many who have heard those words in that sermon. May I include my disappointment in myself. Once again, I offer my humble apology.
With a sincere heart,
Jeff Owens"
"Nearly 15 years ago I preached a sermon that promoted physically hurting gay people. I was young, stupid and immature. I didn’t even hold to the belief of hurting people when I wrongly made those comments. I regret those words and have asked God to forgive me for them. I am not a believer in the gay life-style but I was profoundly wrong in making any comments about hurting people. If I could retract those words I certainly would.
I wrongly represented both God and myself. I truly believe that God is a God of LOVE. I believe he loves the whole world even when people in the world do things that are wrong; Such as my wrong representation of how to treat someone who does not believe the same way I do.
I no longer preach like that and I purposely teach and train others to preach and behave properly as well. The hurtful words in that sermon tape were erased many years ago and somehow have resurfaced much to my disappointment and embarrassment.
I realize I have disappointed many who have heard those words in that sermon. May I include my disappointment in myself. Once again, I offer my humble apology.
With a sincere heart,
Jeff Owens"
58
I heard back from Owens at Owens Publication. He apologized for that sermon and said it was from 1995. He said that he no longer believes or teaches that way now.
59
While Martinsburg may not be the place of choice for those who work in DC, it certainly is home to a number of them, as evidenced by the fact that its traffic makes the local morning news and there are commuter train and bus routes from there to downtown.
That said, this guy is clearly nuts, as are many of the far-out suburbanites. It's only 2 hours away, maybe me and my friends can arrange a welcome wagon for him next Sunday.
That said, this guy is clearly nuts, as are many of the far-out suburbanites. It's only 2 hours away, maybe me and my friends can arrange a welcome wagon for him next Sunday.
60
Wow, this story gets more and more interesting...and incredibly sad. I know there are nice Christians out there, but they sure are hard to find (maybe because they don't speak up against the fundies, as Dan is always pointing out). Christianity seems like the most evil, cruel and vile religion there is.
61
@60: I regret that you and Dan feel failed, Mitten. Your anger and disappointment is legitimate in my opinion. I wish that I had more power and influence, that I didn't fail you all. If I could change things I would, in a heartbeat.
Take care.
Take care.
62
@55, 57
Sounds like, since then, he's managed to keep his homo self-loathing under better raps. No doubt he's had his share of rentboys over the years. Maybe like the Haggard wife, his Tammy-Fay-wifey is into it too. He's clearly gay though.
Sounds like, since then, he's managed to keep his homo self-loathing under better raps. No doubt he's had his share of rentboys over the years. Maybe like the Haggard wife, his Tammy-Fay-wifey is into it too. He's clearly gay though.
63
@60 - Some Christians try to follow Christ's teachings and examples, and believe the Bible is the collected writings of a bunch of early mystics, as edited and engrossed by others, not literally interpretable, and while interesting, not necessarily prescriptive. These tend to be really nice people, as are any people who follow the Golden Rule, regardless of labels.
Others use Christ as a totem, a molten idol, a brand name for their selective, batshit-crazy, bigoted, exclusionary, hate-filled fundamentalism, and the Bible as yet another idol, to be literally worshiped. It's really sad. They have no idea how wrong they are, nor how much they have poisoned what should have been one of the great religions of peace.
As Ghandi said of these people, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Others use Christ as a totem, a molten idol, a brand name for their selective, batshit-crazy, bigoted, exclusionary, hate-filled fundamentalism, and the Bible as yet another idol, to be literally worshiped. It's really sad. They have no idea how wrong they are, nor how much they have poisoned what should have been one of the great religions of peace.
As Ghandi said of these people, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
66
@ 50, 59 - Dude, I know, but commuter rail still takes forever. I'm originally from Moco, and my parents still live there--I know how crazy expensive it is. I've been to Martinsburg more than once; driven past this church on I-81. It's not that far out from Hagarstown. But saying it's a suburb of DC is an exaggeration. I guess you could say it's part of the greater capital region, but hell, that would extend all the way down to Richmond. Yes, I'm splitting hairs. I'm not disparaging those who can't afford to live on Wisconsin Avenue.
I'd love to see high speed rail, for instance, that actually brings the rest of Maryland and part of West Virginia within the DC Metro area. And seriously, props to people who are willing to make the long commute; commuting kills me.
I'd love to see high speed rail, for instance, that actually brings the rest of Maryland and part of West Virginia within the DC Metro area. And seriously, props to people who are willing to make the long commute; commuting kills me.
68
This made me so sick to my stomach to listen to what Jeff Owens had to say. The pure hate and intolerance disgusts me. Can people really be this brainwashed? My first reaction, b/c I'm human, was hate but my second reaction was that I truly feel sry for these wackos. God forgive them...they need it.
69
Could kim in portland be any more patronizing? Why, yes she could, but being offensively condescending wasn't her intent, BoomerinOZ. It's not her style to adress another's sorrow with patronization government, but with compassion.
Still, thanks for the feedback and the smile. I hope your handle means your one the many Aussies that brighten SLOG on occasion.
Still, thanks for the feedback and the smile. I hope your handle means your one the many Aussies that brighten SLOG on occasion.
70
@27: Mental picture of Jesus sighting down a 12-gauge at the firing range...
@67, 69: http://emailsfromcrazypeople.com/2009/12…
But yes, this guy seems like all the non-angry parts of his brain have been lobotomized. And the response letter suggests that now someone got the angry part too.
@67, 69: http://emailsfromcrazypeople.com/2009/12…
But yes, this guy seems like all the non-angry parts of his brain have been lobotomized. And the response letter suggests that now someone got the angry part too.
71
Rewind:
Don't know why the word government is in my post. It doesn't make any sense, too bad I can't edit it out.
Thanks, venomlash for the link.
Don't know why the word government is in my post. It doesn't make any sense, too bad I can't edit it out.
Thanks, venomlash for the link.
72
I haven't read through all the comments, but I'll add my voice to what (I hope) someone already said.
Muslims are no more responsible for AQ than I (an ally Christian) am for this asshole. It's definitely about having conversations within one's social circles, reaching out and condemning when one can make an impact. He'll no sooner listen to me than you.
I don't disagree with you Dan, this guy needs to get verbally skull-fucked, and that dressing-down should come from all views. That said, I do think "moderate Christians" will be able to engage him on a level of understanding of the scripture that atheists may or may not have.
What I'm trying to say, is I'm fine with this type of post from you, Dan. You're not attacking all of Christianity, you're saying THIS asshat is a bigot. I am all for calling out this despicable bigot for what he is and the views he represents. Well done.
Muslims are no more responsible for AQ than I (an ally Christian) am for this asshole. It's definitely about having conversations within one's social circles, reaching out and condemning when one can make an impact. He'll no sooner listen to me than you.
I don't disagree with you Dan, this guy needs to get verbally skull-fucked, and that dressing-down should come from all views. That said, I do think "moderate Christians" will be able to engage him on a level of understanding of the scripture that atheists may or may not have.
What I'm trying to say, is I'm fine with this type of post from you, Dan. You're not attacking all of Christianity, you're saying THIS asshat is a bigot. I am all for calling out this despicable bigot for what he is and the views he represents. Well done.
73
"I know there are nice Christians out there, but they sure are hard to find (maybe because they don't speak up against the fundies, as Dan is always pointing out). Christianity seems like the most evil, cruel and vile religion there is."
The best people I know in terms of charity, service to others, humility and good fellowship are christians. Seriously.
I am an agnostic/atheist (if pressed, I would likely go atheist).
Anecdotal, I know, but there you go.
The best people I know in terms of charity, service to others, humility and good fellowship are christians. Seriously.
I am an agnostic/atheist (if pressed, I would likely go atheist).
Anecdotal, I know, but there you go.
74
Seems to me that there is only one judge and that is God. What the preacher did was wrong but what you are doing back to him by getting everyone re-riled up again is just as hateful and wrong. God is in control and will judge each according to his deeds. You have to give the guy credit for stepping up to the plate and apologizing for his hateful behavior. You were mad at him for being hateful but it's okay for you to be just as hateful about something that happened 15 years ago? Let it go. It's not worth getting all tensed up over something that's not your place to deal out punishment. Leave it in God's hands. God loves each and every one of us regardless of what or who we are. He loves us regardless of our sins. No one sin is lesser or greater in God's eyes - it's all sin but He loves us anyway. Go ahead and take your jabs at me but remember I'm just the messenger.
75
Gym made me gay.
Too much heterosexual sex made me gay.
Drinking made me gay.
Reading Slog made me gay.
Voting Centre-Left made me gay.
Too much heterosexual sex made me gay.
Drinking made me gay.
Reading Slog made me gay.
Voting Centre-Left made me gay.
76
I sent this jerk a message and let him know his excuse was lame, that he's undermined the authority of Chrisitans all over and that if he really wanted to retract his words (as he said he does) he could do so publicly on Oprah and Good Morning America. Christians (like Republicans) somehow don't need external enemies--they are able to manufacture their own quite nicely.
77
I gave the church a call, and was directed to his website where he apologizes and asks forgiveness from God for those words. Doesn't repentance require doing something to make amends? There are plenty of places where he could be donating or doing volunteer work to help those who've been victimized by violent homophobia, and that's what I want to see happen.
78
@34 Dan, I live and work in DC and have had many co-workers who do indeed travel by Amtrak or the MD regional commuter trains to work in DC daily. It is a long distance away from DC and I wouldn't really think of it as a suburb but if suburb is defined as a bedroom community of people who travel to urban work centers, then I does somewhat qualify.
79
Dan, can I make the probably snarky suggestion that you should capitalize words that are meant to be capitalized. In the name of journalism, or whatever feels compelling, it's a nice gesture for people who get paid to write to just make that effort. It makes you look less serious, less intelligent, and less compelling when you don't bother to follow basic grammatical conventions.
You write very, very well...hate to see it watered down by a sticky 'shift' button, or whatever.
You write very, very well...hate to see it watered down by a sticky 'shift' button, or whatever.
80
I hate to be down on it, but when you are trying to convince someone that they're wrong it really does matter: try not to write in a way that makes you read like an illiterate child. Seriously. Consider this paragraph:
i would like to interview you for my blog, perhaps for my column, about that old sermon. i realize that you'll most likely regard my post and the updates, if you read them all the way through, as snarky and highly disrespectful. sorry about that. but so long as you're out there condemning my "lifestyle" — and you do continue to condemn my "lifestyle," whatever that means, even if you are no longer calling on your followers to actually murder me — i feel justified in subjecting you to a little sarcasm
How can you possibly expect that to be taken seriously? I'm sure the pastor is quaking in his boots.
i would like to interview you for my blog, perhaps for my column, about that old sermon. i realize that you'll most likely regard my post and the updates, if you read them all the way through, as snarky and highly disrespectful. sorry about that. but so long as you're out there condemning my "lifestyle" — and you do continue to condemn my "lifestyle," whatever that means, even if you are no longer calling on your followers to actually murder me — i feel justified in subjecting you to a little sarcasm
How can you possibly expect that to be taken seriously? I'm sure the pastor is quaking in his boots.
83
this is a man of God. whether he said something you agree with or not. he apologized for the comments and is still a man of God. before you go bashing him i would think of the consequences of degrading someone in his position. God will judge such acts. making an anti-gay statement does not mean he is screwing his sister or has a rent boy. and whether or not martinsburg is a suburb of dc is beside the point. and for whoever posted about "judge not lest ye be judged" took it out of context. the passage is saying judge yourself before you judge someone else.unless you have no sin inyour life do not judge. a man of God is Gods messenger. God has no sin. people who mock the man of God will be judged.
84
I will be honest. I used to go to the Shenandoah Bible Baptist Church. Pastor Owens does not preach this way anymore. A little background on the man and you will find that much of the early ferver that gets him in trouble here comes from the place he went to Bible College. Fortunately he has changed quite a bit from that mold to become a truely loving Pastor. I do not attend Shenandoah Bible Baptist Church anymore, but I could not speak a word against him. I do not agree with the strict nature of the church anymore as I believe that sometimes we make Christianity too difficult with unecessary rules. That being said, the event in that video is something I am sure Pastor Owens would like to forget. Forgiveness is what Christianity is about, he states that he asked the Lord to forgive him and with that I believe he is truely remorseful of those statements. I believe that this man would extend the same genuine love and hospitality to homosexuals as he would hetrosexuals despite the belief that he disagrees with the lifestyle.
85
Mykids used to attend that church regularly for 2 or 3 years and begged us to go so one day we did and my husband was TOTALY convinced it was a CULT of some kind during the sermon 2 older couples kept talking to us asking us to join the church and saying if we ever needed anything to tell them and kept saying how great dr. owens is and how he is almost perfect it was a lil scary and the pastor was talking about if girls where a 2peice bathing suit of shorts they are doomed to hell and just all kinds of cult like stuff so needless to say we took our kids out of there quick and then for months they would drive the bus to our house to ask why they have not been back we stopped answering the door my kids have found a VERY ACCEPTING church to go to who does not discriminate to anyone and you can wear what you want {well maybe not booty shorts and a bikini top..lol} i am so glad that God talked us in to going there to see that our kids were in danger of being brainwashed and growing up hating people because they are different then themselves. you just reassured me our decision was a good one thanks so much for ur info on him God Bless you ALLLLLL
86
Mykids used to attend that church regularly for 2 or 3 years and begged us to go so one day we did and my husband was TOTALY convinced it was a CULT of some kind during the sermon 2 older couples kept talking to us asking us to join the church and saying if we ever needed anything to tell them and kept saying how great dr. owens is and how he is almost perfect it was a lil scary and the pastor was talking about if girls where a 2peice bathing suit of shorts they are doomed to hell and just all kinds of cult like stuff so needless to say we took our kids out of there quick and then for months they would drive the bus to our house to ask why they have not been back we stopped answering the door my kids have found a VERY ACCEPTING church to go to who does not discriminate to anyone and you can wear what you want {well maybe not booty shorts and a bikini top..lol} i am so glad that God talked us in to going there to see that our kids were in danger of being brainwashed and growing up hating people because they are different then themselves. you just reassured me our decision was a good one thanks so much for ur info on him God Bless you ALLLLLL
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