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News & ArtsThursday, May 20, 2010
Crime Idiots and Guns
Posted by Charles Mudede on Thu, May 20, 2010 at 8:13 AM
The Oregonian:
Fairview City Councilor Ken Quinby likes to have his .40-caliber Glock G27 handy at council meetings. Quinby says he carries the handgun - which he has a license for and keeps in his fanny pack, along with his cell phone and reading glasses - in case of attack by a disgruntled citizen.Quinby's gun-packing proclivities, however, make fellow council member Barbara Jones nervous. So much so that she would like to ban guns and other weapons at City Hall.
From the ST article about the Pierce County cop who shot his in-laws:
Myron carried a gun everywhere, even in church, Weston said. The deputy joked about once greeting a date of his daughter's while being armed with four guns.
From a comment to a post on Kitsapsun.com:
The other day my wife and I were at the pizza factory and there was a guy there with his wife and kids and carrying a pistol. He wasn't carrying it in a holster. He had it tucked into his pants like some gangster. He was probably in his 40's. What an idiot.
1
A man was stabbed on the sidewalk in front of the building I live in, yesterday afternoon, and is in critical condition. Ban knives! Ban knives!
2
As a gun owner and licensed to carry, these stories piss me off. I don't carry when I don't NEED to and it is VERY rare that I do. Some folks don't get it. It isn't a license to be an asshat or to make a point about the 2nd Amendment or some other bullshit. It comes with so much responsibility that it should never be taken lightly. It's remarkable as well that an officer doesn't recognize that responsibility as well. Is it just me that thinks we have a whole new crop of LEO's with a big ass chip on the shoulder-macho-power trip thing going on? I remember most of the cops I encountered when I was younger as being a little more level headed than the bunch I encounter these days. It's like they spend their time off watching teevee's "Cops" and then translate that to the streets (and perhaps personal lives).
3
But PaulBarwick, I use guns to cut food! They serve a practical and real-life purpose regardless of the safety level of where you live!
I meant knives. Knives.
I meant knives. Knives.
4
OMG Really! How many bystanders were hit by stray thrusts in that stabbing? Were any kids hurt by the barrage of stray blades spraying through their bedroom windows?
5
OK, first order of business, Bean, I'm so pleased that you've discovered a method of knowing in advance when you're going to NEED a gun. Please do share it with us - you could save thousands of lives.
Secondly, the guy with the four guns is a cop. Slightly different rules apply. Many, many cops (if not most) carry two guns all the time. Three isn't excessive. Alright, four kind of is, but only by a little bit, and if he was laughing about it, he clearly knew it was a joke.
Secondly, the guy with the four guns is a cop. Slightly different rules apply. Many, many cops (if not most) carry two guns all the time. Three isn't excessive. Alright, four kind of is, but only by a little bit, and if he was laughing about it, he clearly knew it was a joke.
6
Bean,
You're the exception, not the rule. There are thousands of irresponsible dumbass yahoos running around the country with pistols tucked into their elastic waistbands because they think the final American race war is about to begin any second. Thanks for stressing that gun ownership is actually a high responsibility. But until responsible gun owners take the initiative to save the privilege to carry from the people in these stories, people like me aren't going to be excitedly turning out to support gun freedoms.
You're the exception, not the rule. There are thousands of irresponsible dumbass yahoos running around the country with pistols tucked into their elastic waistbands because they think the final American race war is about to begin any second. Thanks for stressing that gun ownership is actually a high responsibility. But until responsible gun owners take the initiative to save the privilege to carry from the people in these stories, people like me aren't going to be excitedly turning out to support gun freedoms.
9
In order to own a gun you should have to go through a mandatory gun safety course where you have to show competence in using guns. You should have to have a license in order to own any guns. It is ridiculous that in our society you have to have a license to drive and own a business but not a license to own a gun.
This seems like a reasonable law.
And before anyone gets their panties in a twist, the 2nd Amendment DOES NOT state that every single American has the right to own any sort of weapon they want.
Throughout our history the Supreme Court has stated time and time again that local governments do have the right to restrict access to weapons. This was the case until 2008 when the court reversed itself. Hopefully someday the Court will change again and rational people will once again be in charge of this nation.
Only the modern day radical NRA believes that everyone should be able to own any sort of weapon.
Oh by the way, I've fired many guns in my life, having been in the military. That doesn't mean I believe I have the right to own any sort of weapon.
This seems like a reasonable law.
And before anyone gets their panties in a twist, the 2nd Amendment DOES NOT state that every single American has the right to own any sort of weapon they want.
Throughout our history the Supreme Court has stated time and time again that local governments do have the right to restrict access to weapons. This was the case until 2008 when the court reversed itself. Hopefully someday the Court will change again and rational people will once again be in charge of this nation.
Only the modern day radical NRA believes that everyone should be able to own any sort of weapon.
Oh by the way, I've fired many guns in my life, having been in the military. That doesn't mean I believe I have the right to own any sort of weapon.
10
The U.S. definitely has the "Militia" part covered... it's the "Well-Regulated" part that's a fucking joke.
11
Do you suppose that in the event of attack by disgruntled citizens, he first has to take off his reading glasses and put away his cell phone before he can get his gun out? And what sort of huge ass fanny pack do you have to have to carry all that stuff around? He must have a really big ass.
I really don't care about the whole gun issue. Carry a gun if you want, just don't point it at me. But what gets me is the idea that if an evil doer came around, that the average citizen would be able to react in time to take out the evil doer. They always point to things like mall shootings as evidence of how they wouldn't be as bad if everyone was armed, but I think all that would result from situations like that would be circular firing squads and a much bigger body count as all the Barney Fifes shot each other.
I really don't care about the whole gun issue. Carry a gun if you want, just don't point it at me. But what gets me is the idea that if an evil doer came around, that the average citizen would be able to react in time to take out the evil doer. They always point to things like mall shootings as evidence of how they wouldn't be as bad if everyone was armed, but I think all that would result from situations like that would be circular firing squads and a much bigger body count as all the Barney Fifes shot each other.
12
Since you included the comment from the Kitsap Sun, it should be noted that there are holsters for wearing a pistol inside your waistband. It is actually one of the most common methods used.
Info: http://concealedcarryholsters.org/inside…
Info: http://concealedcarryholsters.org/inside…
13
The basic question on guns is whether a competent citizen has the same level of discretion and competency as a police officer; the assumption in a democracy is that, absent a specific and compelling reason to the contrary, regular people and government employees should have the same rights. The city council member who's kvetching about this is surrounded by guns all the time -- city hall is full of cops and armed guards. Her problem is that she doesn't trust her fellow councilman to be armed and safe. The underlying assumption in most of these comments is that the mere fact that he carries a gun demonstrates that he has bad judgment, and therefore shouldn't be allowed to carry one.
Most of the assumptions about the discretion of gun carriers are patently contradicted by the level of discretion displayed by regular people in the course of other common business, such as operating a motor vehicle. The question of competency is legitimate, but is not a given; some private gun carriers are meticulous in their training and preparation for responsible gun use. Others, not so much. But, again, that's true of motor vehicle operators as well.
Most of the assumptions about the discretion of gun carriers are patently contradicted by the level of discretion displayed by regular people in the course of other common business, such as operating a motor vehicle. The question of competency is legitimate, but is not a given; some private gun carriers are meticulous in their training and preparation for responsible gun use. Others, not so much. But, again, that's true of motor vehicle operators as well.
14
Not to mention, Judah, that there are shitloads of people walking around with concealed weapons every fucking day. If it was so Goddamned dangerous, you'd think you would hear a horror story from time to time. Funny thing is, you don't, though. I wonder why that is?
15
I really enjoy these gun-lunatic honeytrap threads, Mudede. Hearing about how discreet and ethical cops are and how there are never any "horror stories" concerning gun owners--it makes my day.
16
@2
I couldn't agree more and I appreciate your rational look at this. Many people carry guns for the sake of carrying guns or to make a point. Personally I think the point they're making is that they have to compensate for something. It seems too many people today, both gun owners and non-gun owners, don't think through the responsibilities they take on when they do things.
I couldn't agree more and I appreciate your rational look at this. Many people carry guns for the sake of carrying guns or to make a point. Personally I think the point they're making is that they have to compensate for something. It seems too many people today, both gun owners and non-gun owners, don't think through the responsibilities they take on when they do things.
17
Alright, smartass, cite one example of a legal concealed-carry permit-holder who was involved in a "horror story." Just one.
18
@15
The point of my post wasn't that cops are discrete or ethical: one premise of my comment was that the vast majority of people, including most anti-gun people, are okay with police officers being armed. So, if we're okay with cops being armed, why are we not okay with regular people being armed? The distinction is either found in poor risk analysis (which I think it mostly is) or in tangible differences between cops and regular people, as regards their fitness to carry firearms.
Fifty-Two-Eighty: Mumua Abu Jamal was licensed to carry the pistol he used to shoot Officer Daniel Faulkner.
The point of my post wasn't that cops are discrete or ethical: one premise of my comment was that the vast majority of people, including most anti-gun people, are okay with police officers being armed. So, if we're okay with cops being armed, why are we not okay with regular people being armed? The distinction is either found in poor risk analysis (which I think it mostly is) or in tangible differences between cops and regular people, as regards their fitness to carry firearms.
Fifty-Two-Eighty: Mumua Abu Jamal was licensed to carry the pistol he used to shoot Officer Daniel Faulkner.
20
Also, @5: At least in Seattle, the police department manual says that cops aren't allowed to carry more than two guns at a time.
22
@16 or people carry firearms to show that it isn't a big deal like the anti gun liberals who are obsessed with guns and penises believe they are.
Its funny how most anti gun rants sound like anti atheist rants, that you wouldn't trust yourself with a gun, or without god, so you cant trust anyone else, they obviously must have another motive...
You seriously need to go back to the drawing board if thats the best reason you can come up with to deny people a constitutional right.
Its funny how most anti gun rants sound like anti atheist rants, that you wouldn't trust yourself with a gun, or without god, so you cant trust anyone else, they obviously must have another motive...
You seriously need to go back to the drawing board if thats the best reason you can come up with to deny people a constitutional right.
23
@17, there's also this: http://tiny.cc/5yk2d
I wasn't actually feeling particularly drawn to the debate. It just seemed unlikely that any group of a significant size would be wholly free of horror stories.
I'm blessed with cheery optimism...
I wasn't actually feeling particularly drawn to the debate. It just seemed unlikely that any group of a significant size would be wholly free of horror stories.
I'm blessed with cheery optimism...
24
@ 14, is right that more people have legally concealed firearms than many realize. The ones carrying and who engage in jackassery stand out though. There’s no use in defending people with concealed firearm permits who irresponsibly flash their guns or talk of impending race wars. They have their rights. But they also put people, including family members, on edge when they dominate conversations about impending race wars while flashing their guns. Sure that doesn’t describe many gun owners. It only describes a minority of the ones I know. But the header - Idiots & Guns –isn’t about the responsible ones.
25
@17 well there's this:
http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwmurdersui…
and this:
http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwlawenforc…
and this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugar…
for a start.
http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwmurdersui…
and this:
http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwlawenforc…
and this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugar…
for a start.
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