Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, May 19, 2010
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: A Referral
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:06 PM
I suspect you are inundated with emails on a daily basis so I understand if this one gets filtered out. But I'm seeking some advice and I feel that you are in a good position to help me, given your life experience. I recently discovered that I am pregnant. I've had 2 abortions in the past and I can't go through that again. I'm 31 but unemployed, financially strapped, and an emotional mess. I don't think I am capable of being a nurturing mother or providing the best possible enviroment for a child. So I've been looking at open adoption. I recall you adopted your son this way and wanted to know if you'd be willing to share with me your feelings on how it's gone. Or perhaps some guidance on choosing an agency and an adoptive family? I would like to stay int he child's life if at all possible....Lost In Chicago
My response after the jump...
Please get in touch with Open Adoption & Family Services in Portland, Oregon. You don't have to live in Portland to work with them, and you don't have to go through with an adoption if you accept some counseling from them. They folks at OAFS are good, smart, and ethical, they practically invented open adoption, and they're fierce advocates for the rights of birthmoms. If you do decide to go ahead with an adoption, they will help you find a couple who wants a similar degree of ongoing contact, post-placement, and they will ensure that your rights are protected. In most states open adoption agreements are legally unenforceable, they're "gentlemen's agreements," but in Oregon your rights are protected and the contract you sign with an adoptive couple—how many visits per year, how many pictures per year—is binding. (You won't be forced to have more contact than you want, if you decide to take some time away; but the adoptive couple can't prevent you from seeing your child as many times per year as they agreed to before the placement.)
Of course my son has had some issues about his adoption—all children have issues, adopted kids tend to have issues about adoption. But when he's wondered why his mom couldn't raise him, or why she picked us, we've been able to pick up the phone and talk with his birthmom or see her and talk about it. And that has been so valuable.
Please get in touch with OAFS.
2
You absolutely picked the right person to ask this question, Lost In Chicago. Best wishes to you and the little one.
4
How about a suggestion for fixing? Three unwanted pregnancies by 31 = maybe you should think about it, seriously.
5
Just a side note, 2 co-workers have adopted children and both kids have issues about being adopted. Neither of them were done through open adoption, so these kids do not have any contact with either biological parent. The issues seem to come with the territory in adoption, but at least open adoption affords your child some peace of mind occasionally.
6
It is so great that this woman has options, and I'm so proud to be living in a time where we do...and at the same time I want to yell at her and say 'HELLO!! BIRTH CONTROL!!" geesh! If you're open to abortion then you can't be opposed to birth control so if you decide to go through with either option in the end put yourself on birth control as soon as possible. Two abortions and now another unwanted pregnancy could all have been totally prevented with freakin' birth control. ARGH, this frustrates me beyond belief.
7
I want to point out that kids and their identity issues are universal. maybe it is adoption for this kid, divorced paretns for this kid, single mother for another kid. It's just a normal maturation thing.
I am very supportive of a woman's right to chose to have an abortion. adoption of the infant is another very decent choice as well... keeping a kid when you KNOW you will not be able to provide a loving and stable home is NOT a good choice.
I am very supportive of a woman's right to chose to have an abortion. adoption of the infant is another very decent choice as well... keeping a kid when you KNOW you will not be able to provide a loving and stable home is NOT a good choice.
9
right on, #6. i had the same thought. with technology where it is now, no one in this country should have 3 unwanted pregnancies.
10
Good luck, LIC. I hope that when you have figured out this situation, that you'll invest some work into birth control for yourself in the future. I hope OAFS is helpful.
For what it is worth, my husband is adopted. He met his birth mom while he was a student in college. She sought him out. When asked, he'll happily tell you that he has no issue with his being adopted and that he feels like he grew up where he belonged. He said that he has never been plagued by questions. He might be a minority, though. So, open adoption sounds like a very helpful and loving way to go about it.
For what it is worth, my husband is adopted. He met his birth mom while he was a student in college. She sought him out. When asked, he'll happily tell you that he has no issue with his being adopted and that he feels like he grew up where he belonged. He said that he has never been plagued by questions. He might be a minority, though. So, open adoption sounds like a very helpful and loving way to go about it.
11
For a local option (and open adoption advocates) try Family Resource Center (f-r-c.org) or the Cradle (cradle.org).
As parents of a now 5-year old who went through a private open adoption. We hear that this is best the situation could be for birthmom. She's been able to continuing schooling and knows that her child is in a loving home with (now) yearly updates. Adoption is the hardest for birthmom (so my own birthmother--not my son's) tells me. Good luck!
As parents of a now 5-year old who went through a private open adoption. We hear that this is best the situation could be for birthmom. She's been able to continuing schooling and knows that her child is in a loving home with (now) yearly updates. Adoption is the hardest for birthmom (so my own birthmother--not my son's) tells me. Good luck!
12
@6 and @9
Enough already. You have no idea what her situation is, what her available options were, or what precautions she took, etc. As @8 pointed out, birth control sometimes fails. And, of course, there are even less pleasant possibilities. She didn't mention the specifics, so we can't know.
Good luck, Lost in Chicago. Sounds like you're doing your best with a sucky situation.
Enough already. You have no idea what her situation is, what her available options were, or what precautions she took, etc. As @8 pointed out, birth control sometimes fails. And, of course, there are even less pleasant possibilities. She didn't mention the specifics, so we can't know.
Good luck, Lost in Chicago. Sounds like you're doing your best with a sucky situation.
13
For all those screaming about birth control: I've contributed to four pregnancies (hit for the cycle!). All using birth control. First there was a malfunctioning IUD. Next came a blown diaphragm. After that was the one a million (or whatever large number) shot of sperm defeating the pill. And finally, just a plain old broken condom.
Sometimes, despite really aggressively trying to avoid them accidental pregnancies happen. Sometimes repeatedly.
Sometimes, despite really aggressively trying to avoid them accidental pregnancies happen. Sometimes repeatedly.
14
Oboy, my heart goes out to Lost in Chicago. She's in for a tough ride, and I have to commend her for facing such a hard truth.
No one knows better than she does the consequences of either birth control that's failed, or failure to use birth control. Lecturing and hectoring at such a painful time is totally non-productive. There's a time and place for everything, and the Slogerati don't know enough of the circumstances to pass judgment.
Good luck, LIC. I hope things work out for the best for all of you. It's gonna hurt like hell, but there's a way through it. I just hope you have a support system, so you don't have to face this alone.
No one knows better than she does the consequences of either birth control that's failed, or failure to use birth control. Lecturing and hectoring at such a painful time is totally non-productive. There's a time and place for everything, and the Slogerati don't know enough of the circumstances to pass judgment.
Good luck, LIC. I hope things work out for the best for all of you. It's gonna hurt like hell, but there's a way through it. I just hope you have a support system, so you don't have to face this alone.
15
I can't understand why someone who never wants to have kids won't have their 'tubes tied' - seems like the simplest solution.
16
Um, Dan, I don't know if it was an inline joke or just a handy phrase... but given your ongoing pillorying of the Obama administration's stance on gay rights, your use of "fierce advocate" rings a bit sarcastic there.
17
@15 Yes, invasive surgery that may or may not be reversible - and which also has a failure rate - is SOOOO simple.
It's true some women never want children. Some women want children, but not right now. Some women would want them under the right circumstances, and some women JUST DON'T KNOW YET. Giving up your possibilities, for most women, is not a simple option.
It's true some women never want children. Some women want children, but not right now. Some women would want them under the right circumstances, and some women JUST DON'T KNOW YET. Giving up your possibilities, for most women, is not a simple option.
18
@15 We don't know how old LIC is, whether she has health insurance (I doubt it), whether she wants to have children sometime later when her circumstances are better and she feels more stable.
Do you know how willing MDs are to do tubal ligations for free? For anyone who wants it?
No. I didn't think so.
Do you know how willing MDs are to do tubal ligations for free? For anyone who wants it?
No. I didn't think so.
19
I'd like to put in a word for closed adoption. I was adopted myself, in a closed adoption, and I did not have issues, except of course now that I'm older I'd like to know a little more about my genetic background. She says she wants open adoption, but it would be good to consider the other options too
20
@15 - It's an invasive and expensive procedure that is rarely covered by insurance companies. That and most doctors won't refer for it and surgeons won't perform it on women who aren't already mothers. IUDs are really the next best option, but again most docs won't give them to women who haven't had children because of potential (now almost non-existent) side effects. Also, as a married woman, I've had my last three doctors ask me what my husband thought about me getting sterilized or going on long-term contraception. Hurrah for 2010!
21
@15 Some places won't tie a woman's tubes unless she's a certain age or already had a kid. I'm 24 and never even almost reproduced, but probably wouldn't be able to get my plumbing plugged.
It's also still a lot riskier for a woman to get tube tied than for a man to have a vasectomy I hear. I just hear, though. Haven't done any thesis-level research on the subject.
It's also still a lot riskier for a woman to get tube tied than for a man to have a vasectomy I hear. I just hear, though. Haven't done any thesis-level research on the subject.
22
@15: Probably because you seldom *can* really know for sure. I mean, aside from @17's points that it's not always about "never ever" anyway, if this LW had had her tubes tied and regretted it later, people would be hectoring her for being too confident at a younger age or not being open to changing her mind later.
23
Lost In Chicago,
Echoing #11, I am the adoptive parent of a child born in a Chicago suburb in July, 2008. The agency we used (based in Evanston, IL) is called The Cradle (cradle.org). They are a wonderful organization that focuses entirely on open adoptions and birth-mother conselling. We have a great relationship with our daughter's birth-mother and we literally could not be happier with our open adoption situation. If you visit their website you can see over 100 families--most of whom are in the Chicago area--who are waiting to adopt through the Cradle, and all of whom are interested in open adoption. Best of luck.
Dan
Echoing #11, I am the adoptive parent of a child born in a Chicago suburb in July, 2008. The agency we used (based in Evanston, IL) is called The Cradle (cradle.org). They are a wonderful organization that focuses entirely on open adoptions and birth-mother conselling. We have a great relationship with our daughter's birth-mother and we literally could not be happier with our open adoption situation. If you visit their website you can see over 100 families--most of whom are in the Chicago area--who are waiting to adopt through the Cradle, and all of whom are interested in open adoption. Best of luck.
Dan
24
When I went to college, the med center practically gave you a birth control prescription for walking in the door. And it worked! The abortion and drop-out rates were far lower than the Jesuit university across town. This is so much better for everyone involved, from the insurance company to the nonexistent unwanted child of an unemployed women. Why can't we do this as a country?
25
@8 and 12, sure birth control has a failure rate...but this is her third pregnancy!
@12, don't tell me enough already. This girl has had two abortions and is now saddled with a third unwanted pregnancy at 31. She's old enough to know better by now, and at the very least to know when her body is ovulating so she can follow that if other birth control options are not working. I refuse to give this girl a pass after being this stupid. There are so many options to women out there now that if she has had this many unwanted pregnancies it's because she's being careless...and that's something I have no tolerance for.
@12, don't tell me enough already. This girl has had two abortions and is now saddled with a third unwanted pregnancy at 31. She's old enough to know better by now, and at the very least to know when her body is ovulating so she can follow that if other birth control options are not working. I refuse to give this girl a pass after being this stupid. There are so many options to women out there now that if she has had this many unwanted pregnancies it's because she's being careless...and that's something I have no tolerance for.
26
Uhh guys, something tells me that if abortion the first two times was so traumatic that she just "can't go through that again" she's probably not someone who is casual about birth control. For all we know she could be a victim of sexual assault, so barring any further information I would suggest backing the fuck off. If she was casual about birth control, I'm sure this time she got the message.
I admire people who are able to go through with adoption and am amazed with people who can handle open adoption. I have a hard time visualizing letting go of a baby and an even harder time visualizing staying connected without actually being the parent.All the best LIC
I admire people who are able to go through with adoption and am amazed with people who can handle open adoption. I have a hard time visualizing letting go of a baby and an even harder time visualizing staying connected without actually being the parent.All the best LIC
27
@18, she's 31. She states that in her letter. My friend is 28 and just had a IUD put in, she's never had kids and never had any issues with her gyno about putting it in (yay Country Doctor on Capitol Hill, I highly recommend). I won't say that there are not doctors all over the country that put their own religious vies on to their patients, but there are also doctors that respect women and their choices.
28
I am glad to read this, in large part because of the This American Life segment Dan did years ago, during which DJ's birthmom was still missing. It's good to know that she's around and okay.
29
American adoptive parents spend years of their lives and outrageous sums pursuing orphans born in Europe and Asia, and it's interesting that the smartest voice out there for open adoption of unwanted US infants is the triple whammy of a weed-burning, sex-positive, pro-choice gay man. Good on ya, Dan! Hope LIC takes your advice, and reports back in a year with happy news.
Perhaps if the right wing anti-abortion crowd led their fight with more active support and expansion of this process, rather than targeting poor teens and "baby-killers", the results they claim to seek (fewer abortions) might be realised. Unless of course, their real goal is to punish women who enjoy sex...
Perhaps if the right wing anti-abortion crowd led their fight with more active support and expansion of this process, rather than targeting poor teens and "baby-killers", the results they claim to seek (fewer abortions) might be realised. Unless of course, their real goal is to punish women who enjoy sex...
30
As a woman who once found herself contemplating giving up a baby, I advise her to think about what life will be like knowing exactly where the baby is, what it looks like, and what its name is, but being unable to go get it. Any regrets, any seller's remorse, and you risk being the creepy lady security pulls away from the playground fence at the preschool. My mother is adopted and aside from being blond with 2 black-haired siblings, she never gives it much of a thought, and to my understanding never really did.
But I do have to ask, in a nation with readily accessible birth control pills, condoms, diaphrams, gells, foams, IUDs, injections, implants, and patches, how the HELL do you get to be a 31 year old woman on her third unplanned pregnancy? I got accidentally knocked up once and was bright enough not to let it happen again. I'm glad she's being responsible about it and not keeping them and resenting them like so many do, or just aborting without a second though (I'm very pro-choice, I just believe it should involve a second thought or two), but where's the responsibility when she's out getting pregnant?
But I do have to ask, in a nation with readily accessible birth control pills, condoms, diaphrams, gells, foams, IUDs, injections, implants, and patches, how the HELL do you get to be a 31 year old woman on her third unplanned pregnancy? I got accidentally knocked up once and was bright enough not to let it happen again. I'm glad she's being responsible about it and not keeping them and resenting them like so many do, or just aborting without a second though (I'm very pro-choice, I just believe it should involve a second thought or two), but where's the responsibility when she's out getting pregnant?
31
Tubals are invasive, yes, but the surgery is pretty much in-and out. And at least my health insurance covered it - some will, some won't.
It's not at all impossible to get your tubes tied without having kids - you have to hunt around for a doctor, but I had mine tied at 24 (no kids, thank Christ!) and my doctor had done tubals on women as young as 20 previously.
It's not at all impossible to get your tubes tied without having kids - you have to hunt around for a doctor, but I had mine tied at 24 (no kids, thank Christ!) and my doctor had done tubals on women as young as 20 previously.
32
That will be all, Judgy McJudgersons. She isnt asking for YOUR advice, she is asking for Dan's advice.
33
That will be all, Judgy McJudgersons. She isnt asking for YOUR advice, she is asking for Dan's advice.
34
Dude, you guys don't know ANYTHING about her circumstances. ANYTHING. Maybe her birth control failed each time. Maybe she was sexually assaulted. Maybe she's allergic to latex. Maybe she was irresponsible. Maybe her IUD fell out. Who cares? She didn't elucidate her circumstances, so where do you people get off being so effing judgmental?
35
Like some of the other posters I was also adopted. Though my birth mother met both of my parents she did not stay in contact with us after the adoption was finalized. My "twin" brother's (he is ten days older than me with different biological parents) bio-mom had the same arrangement. From the time we were old enough to understand we both knew that we were adopted and that my parents had all the information for our bio-parents if we ever wished to contact them. Neither of us ever have (we are in our early 30s now). While I will always be thankful that my birth mother made the decision to give me up rather than try to raise me in a situation she knew would be bad I honestly could never view her as a "parent" or even a relative really. I'm not sure how I would feel if it had been a truly open adoption, but I do think it might have complicated things significantly.
I will say that while I never had any issues with being adopted, my brother had a ton. He wouldn't tell people, even close friends and would get so angry at me if I talked about it with anyone outside of our household. Since he never wanted to talk about it I honestly don't know exactly where his issues came from and perhaps he would have dealt better if he did have access to his bio-mom. I guess the point is you never know and as long as you choose parent(s) who are going to do their best to help their child you will be doing the right thing.
I will say that while I never had any issues with being adopted, my brother had a ton. He wouldn't tell people, even close friends and would get so angry at me if I talked about it with anyone outside of our household. Since he never wanted to talk about it I honestly don't know exactly where his issues came from and perhaps he would have dealt better if he did have access to his bio-mom. I guess the point is you never know and as long as you choose parent(s) who are going to do their best to help their child you will be doing the right thing.
36
@34
This always happens in the SL comments - the letters always have holes, and people always fill them in with unflattering assumptions so they can preach, criticize, and rant. People can be annoying that way.
This always happens in the SL comments - the letters always have holes, and people always fill them in with unflattering assumptions so they can preach, criticize, and rant. People can be annoying that way.
37
It is easy to get an IUD at any age if you have emotional problems. They will give you one. They will be very happy to give you one. And they are cheap through PP, usu less than $200 and I'm sure they'd let you do it on a payment plan. For ten years of birth control at 99.99% prevention that's not bad. But part of the problem if you are crazy is inability to take care of yourself, which may be why she's been inconsistent with birth control in the past. Perhaps she is an alcoholic or addict, which doesn't help. She may be not able to tolerate the emotional stress of abortion because she is unstable. She is being smart looking for other options, open adoption is likely to be extremely stressful too, but less likely to cause her to be suicidal (maybe, and if that is something that is happening with her). It does seem really irresponsible for her to have had three pregnancies but she may be really ripped up mentally in which case it's hard to be harsh about it, however easy it might have been to prevent the second or third, we don't know how sick she is, and it's likely there is no one there to help her. Also, it may be the only way she will ever have a child - it is possible to want to have a baby (perhaps she wanted to be a mom before she was sick), know you will never be able to raise one, but try to find a situation in which you can give someone a baby and still be as much of a mom as you are ever going to be able to be. It is sad, and an assbackwards way to go about it to get pregnant first, but don't discount the biological drive to reproduce, selfish as it may be, it's there in all of us.
38
@25 & @30 - As others have said, condoms break, the pill isn't 100%, and most importantly, YOU DO NOT KNOW HER OR HER SITUATION. Shit happens, and there will always be statistical outliers. In this country we are innocent until proven guilty, even of carelessness in family planning. Your words amount to character slander and are more than a little misogynistic. Sometimes a woman's body makes a baby without the woman's consent, despite her taking reasonable precautions, and sometimes it happens more than once to a particular woman. Don't get angry at someone who may not be at fault, get angry with the medical reality that no birth control is ideal, get angry with the societal reality that it's not always accessible or affordable.
To be clear, I agree with your general sentiment 100% - abortion should be a last resort, never another birth control option. However, a reasonable general position does not suddenly make it ethical for you to resort to ad hominem attacks, and even if you're right about THIS woman in particular, who exactly are you helping by criticizing? Do you really think shaming and shunning are the best ways to motivate people to change their sexual behavior? Studies have proven, over and over and over and over, that they are not.
To be clear, I agree with your general sentiment 100% - abortion should be a last resort, never another birth control option. However, a reasonable general position does not suddenly make it ethical for you to resort to ad hominem attacks, and even if you're right about THIS woman in particular, who exactly are you helping by criticizing? Do you really think shaming and shunning are the best ways to motivate people to change their sexual behavior? Studies have proven, over and over and over and over, that they are not.
39
For what little it's worth, as a parent of an adopted child, I feel like thanking anyone who make this choice. So thankyou.
40
@38, I in no way meant to "slut shame" her. I do hope that she takes two things from reading the comments on here:
One, that there are many options for open adoption, that there are many people out there who have gone through the process of both adopting and being adopted so perhaps she will be guided to the correct place and be able to make the right decisions for her and her life.
And two: there are so many different options for birth control right now that it's not even funny. I can only assume at this point and yes I have NO idea what got her into these situations in the first place HOWEVER three failures that resulted in pregnancies is rare...very rare, and yes it can happen but as I mentioned before at the very least know your body and when it's ovulating and don't have sex during that time if you know that birth control doesn't work for you.
Women worked really hard to get the right to choose. Please don't fuck it up for the rest of us.
One, that there are many options for open adoption, that there are many people out there who have gone through the process of both adopting and being adopted so perhaps she will be guided to the correct place and be able to make the right decisions for her and her life.
And two: there are so many different options for birth control right now that it's not even funny. I can only assume at this point and yes I have NO idea what got her into these situations in the first place HOWEVER three failures that resulted in pregnancies is rare...very rare, and yes it can happen but as I mentioned before at the very least know your body and when it's ovulating and don't have sex during that time if you know that birth control doesn't work for you.
Women worked really hard to get the right to choose. Please don't fuck it up for the rest of us.
41
I've always believed that nearly 100% of unwanted pregnancies could be eliminated simply by having all sexually mature males be given a vasectomy, until the male reaches a decision to have children.
They're almost 100% reverse-able, less invasive than "fixing" a woman, and the surgery usually is done on an out-patient bases.
As a guy I say, come on men, step up to the plate and stop blaming it all on the woman.
They're almost 100% reverse-able, less invasive than "fixing" a woman, and the surgery usually is done on an out-patient bases.
As a guy I say, come on men, step up to the plate and stop blaming it all on the woman.
42
For anyone who's thinking about different ways of doing adoption, I VERY strongly recommend the book, "Adoption Matters: Philosophical And Feminist Essays" by Sally Haslanger and Charlotte Witt (both renowned philosophers and adoptive mothers): http://www.amazon.com/Adoption-Matters-P…
43
@41: No. I've done that and... no.
Sure, vasectomies are typically out-patient, and are no big deal. It's a five-minute job, usually a couple of days rest with an ice-pack, and you are good to go. Every guy who is done having kids, or who doesn't want them, should have one.
But reversal is a whole different thing. I had my vasectomy reversed (Two kids, then vasectomy, then first wife died, then second wife wanted a baby and I did too. Suck it, haters.)
It is not out-patient surgery. It's general anasthetic, slice your sack open, perform microsurgery on two tiny little tubes, then sew you back up again. Painful, uncomfortable recovery for a few weeks.
But totally worth it - until they do the sperm count at six months and find a grand total of five. (And I was a prime candidate for successful reversal given my age and the length of time it was done after the vasectomy.)
So it was off to the fertility clinic, where we were able to conceive - after they got some of my sperm by cutting a piece out of one of my balls. (Yes, it was just as bad as it sounds.)
And after all that, I'll still need to have a vasectomy done again - after all, a sperm count of five is still not zero. So that will be a total of four different incisions into my sack. I should have just had a zipper put in.
Bottom line? Sterilization procedures - including vasectomy - are NOT birth control. Don't assume they are reversible.
Sure, vasectomies are typically out-patient, and are no big deal. It's a five-minute job, usually a couple of days rest with an ice-pack, and you are good to go. Every guy who is done having kids, or who doesn't want them, should have one.
But reversal is a whole different thing. I had my vasectomy reversed (Two kids, then vasectomy, then first wife died, then second wife wanted a baby and I did too. Suck it, haters.)
It is not out-patient surgery. It's general anasthetic, slice your sack open, perform microsurgery on two tiny little tubes, then sew you back up again. Painful, uncomfortable recovery for a few weeks.
But totally worth it - until they do the sperm count at six months and find a grand total of five. (And I was a prime candidate for successful reversal given my age and the length of time it was done after the vasectomy.)
So it was off to the fertility clinic, where we were able to conceive - after they got some of my sperm by cutting a piece out of one of my balls. (Yes, it was just as bad as it sounds.)
And after all that, I'll still need to have a vasectomy done again - after all, a sperm count of five is still not zero. So that will be a total of four different incisions into my sack. I should have just had a zipper put in.
Bottom line? Sterilization procedures - including vasectomy - are NOT birth control. Don't assume they are reversible.
44
I'll throw in a word for Adoption Connection in San Francisco: www.adoptionconnection.org. They work with birth mothers all over the country, and you can call them toll-free at 800-972-9225.
My husband and I are waiting to become dads through adoption, and that's the agency we're working with. We're still waiting to be matched. You (and any prospective moms) can learn more about us at http://www.adoptionconnection.org/parent…
My husband and I are waiting to become dads through adoption, and that's the agency we're working with. We're still waiting to be matched. You (and any prospective moms) can learn more about us at http://www.adoptionconnection.org/parent…
47
As an adoptee I disagree that all adopted children has issues with it at one point or another. I have never had an issue regarding my adoption. Also, I resent that people assume I want to know my birth parents or must be wishing I could search for them. I have two parents, do I really need another set of people telling me to clean my apartment? ;)
48
@40 not everyone knows when they ovulate, it varies for some people, you can ovulate more than once in a month and she may not have been in control of the sex she was having (rape, abusive relationships). I can tell when I ovulate and I wouldn't bother trying to avoid sex around those times because it's pretty wildly impractical. You'd have to cut out at least half the month, easily.
49
@38 Well, I appreciate that your intentions were to educate and promote responsibility rather than shame, but I think a woman in her position would find it hard to take it any other way. As I've said, I agree with you, there are a lot of options for birth control - but still, accidents can happen.
But I especially take issue with, "Women worked really hard to get the right to choose. Please don't fuck it up for the rest of us." I would respond to that with, "Women worked really hard to get the right to choose. To choose based on an individual's situation, and an individual's needs. Please don't fuck that up for the rest of us by saying some women's choices are bad enough that they *could* fuck it up for the rest of us."
In saying that her mistakes could affect our rights, you buy into the fallacy that rights should only be recognized if people can show that they won't misuse them. That's not true. It never has been. It never will be. But the more you believe it, the more everyone around you will.
But I especially take issue with, "Women worked really hard to get the right to choose. Please don't fuck it up for the rest of us." I would respond to that with, "Women worked really hard to get the right to choose. To choose based on an individual's situation, and an individual's needs. Please don't fuck that up for the rest of us by saying some women's choices are bad enough that they *could* fuck it up for the rest of us."
In saying that her mistakes could affect our rights, you buy into the fallacy that rights should only be recognized if people can show that they won't misuse them. That's not true. It never has been. It never will be. But the more you believe it, the more everyone around you will.
51
Thank you @38 and 49 for your reason, logic and compassion. Exactly what I was thinking, but you put it way better!
52
I had a kid in the mid-80s through a supposedly "open" adoption. Dan's right in that most places it's a gentleman's agreement. So take your time picking the parents -- meet them, meet lots of potentials before making a decision and trust your gut. I didn't trust mine and not only did the parents not respect the spirit of open adoption, they didn't even tell the kid he was adopted. He found out long after he should've, and studies show the older a kid is when he finds out, the more he resents his adoptive parents for not telling him. That probably gives kids more issues with adoption than typical.
53
Oh, and this site has a lot of forums you can join to chat with other people in your situation (or any of the situations surrounding adoption): http://www.adoption.com/
54
I encourage you to read what I thought to be an excellent essay in the New York Times last week. Look for "Open Adoption: Not So Simple Math" in the May 7th NYT's. It is one person's reflection on open adoption 6 or 7 years after the fact, and is a very good account of the ongoing questioning this person has over her decision, even year's later.
55
Echoing @31. Can we stop with the melodrama about getting tubes tied? I'm looking at you, @20 and @21. These days they can do tubals with 2 small incisions -- hardly "invasive". And if you're into zero cutting, there's Essure and Adiana. (Cue whining about not trusting new methods.) Those are not much more invasive than IUDs. I don't know what you consider "expensive", but my post-insurance Essure procedure was worth every penny of that $600. Oh, and the doctor didn't fuss about my being childless, unmarried, and 24. (Three cheers for Swedish Medical.)
56
A touching New York Times essay written by a woman who decided to give up her son through open adoption. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/fashio…
57
That was excellent advice but you left out one critical piece that this woman clearly needs.
BUY SOME GODDAMNED CONDOMS!! Or get some sort of birth control. Planned Parenthood will give you the pill for free for gods sake. Most people go their whole life without an unplanned pregnancy because they use birth control. If this is her third she's got to get her shit together and get herself some fucking birth control.
BUY SOME GODDAMNED CONDOMS!! Or get some sort of birth control. Planned Parenthood will give you the pill for free for gods sake. Most people go their whole life without an unplanned pregnancy because they use birth control. If this is her third she's got to get her shit together and get herself some fucking birth control.
58
@57: Right. Have you read the rest of the thread? At all? I'm sure she's sort of aware of this "birth control" by now.
59
@57, "Most people go their whole life without an unplanned pregnancy..."
Actually, according to the 2002 National Survey of Family Growth, about half of U.S. pregnancies in 2001 were unintended pregnancies.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/psrh/full…
So...51% planned vs 49% unplanned. I think a real statistician (not just a Slog commenter with good rationalizing skills) would take issue with your word choice of "most".
Actually, according to the 2002 National Survey of Family Growth, about half of U.S. pregnancies in 2001 were unintended pregnancies.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/psrh/full…
So...51% planned vs 49% unplanned. I think a real statistician (not just a Slog commenter with good rationalizing skills) would take issue with your word choice of "most".
60
@40: The fact that it's not your intention to do it doesn't mean that you're not doing it.
@49: Thanks for verbalizing that so well. It's everything I would have liked to have said if I could've gotten past the "Fuck you. Your 'I was smart enough to only get knocked up once accidentally' is somebody else's 'I was smart enough to never get knocked up at all--stop fucking it up for the rest of us.'"
@49: Thanks for verbalizing that so well. It's everything I would have liked to have said if I could've gotten past the "Fuck you. Your 'I was smart enough to only get knocked up once accidentally' is somebody else's 'I was smart enough to never get knocked up at all--stop fucking it up for the rest of us.'"
61
This is Lost in Chicago. Thank you for all of the feedback, even the not so positive.
That aside, what I am primarally concerned with is the adoption process and how it will effect the child. I would prefer open adoption but not if it is detrimental to the child. I just want to know that he/she is with a loving family and is being cared for. I would be willing to observe from a distance, if only for peace of mind.
I'm curious to hear from people that have grown up as a child in an open adoption, parents that are raising their child in an open adoption, or birth mothers (and fathers) that opted for this method. I want to know what to expect and how to cope. Again, I am extremely concerned with the child's emotional health and how my choice might impact them. I struggle with my own abandonment issues, though for a much different reason. I lost my father to suicide at a young age. I fear that my decision might lead to similar feelings of rejection, abandoment, grief, etc. But the thought of being responsible for another life is even more terrifying to me since I am barely able to take care of myself. I would rather this child be raised with a family that can provide anything and everything they need.
Thank you again for the suggestions, links, and articles. I will review all of them carefully and welcome more.
That aside, what I am primarally concerned with is the adoption process and how it will effect the child. I would prefer open adoption but not if it is detrimental to the child. I just want to know that he/she is with a loving family and is being cared for. I would be willing to observe from a distance, if only for peace of mind.
I'm curious to hear from people that have grown up as a child in an open adoption, parents that are raising their child in an open adoption, or birth mothers (and fathers) that opted for this method. I want to know what to expect and how to cope. Again, I am extremely concerned with the child's emotional health and how my choice might impact them. I struggle with my own abandonment issues, though for a much different reason. I lost my father to suicide at a young age. I fear that my decision might lead to similar feelings of rejection, abandoment, grief, etc. But the thought of being responsible for another life is even more terrifying to me since I am barely able to take care of myself. I would rather this child be raised with a family that can provide anything and everything they need.
Thank you again for the suggestions, links, and articles. I will review all of them carefully and welcome more.
62
@38, I get that sometimes accidents happen, that birth control isn't 100%. But three times before she's 32? I'm not saying she should be sterilized, or stop having sex. I'm saying maybe if you're THAT fertile and THAT unlucky, and you want to avoid motherhood THAT bad, then you could go on the pill, AND use foam, AND use condoms. If she's getting pregnant three freaking times through all that, her name is Mary and all we atheists are dead wrong.
And I never tried to shame anyone. I wasn't cheering her on, but I offered my genuine experiences with adoption, and then asked in all honesty how a person could accidentally get pregnant 3 times before their 32nd birthday. It is unusual. Not abnormal, not evil, but unusual to get pregnant 3 separate times with absolutely no warning that it could happen and no way to avoid it. The odds that a rape victim is going to be raped while ovulating, 3 different times, are pretty low. Most women are lucky enough not to be raped 3 different times at all, let alone during the 3 or 4 day period of the month when they're going to get pregnant. And again, if it was a birth control failure, I think after the first time or two, you'd use more birth control.
And I never tried to shame anyone. I wasn't cheering her on, but I offered my genuine experiences with adoption, and then asked in all honesty how a person could accidentally get pregnant 3 times before their 32nd birthday. It is unusual. Not abnormal, not evil, but unusual to get pregnant 3 separate times with absolutely no warning that it could happen and no way to avoid it. The odds that a rape victim is going to be raped while ovulating, 3 different times, are pretty low. Most women are lucky enough not to be raped 3 different times at all, let alone during the 3 or 4 day period of the month when they're going to get pregnant. And again, if it was a birth control failure, I think after the first time or two, you'd use more birth control.
63
@62 there is no sure-fire way to know when you're ovulating. you can ovulate more than once a month, and you can get pregnant during your period. There is no "safe" window. The rhythm method of birth control is much less reliable than condoms and other forms of birth control.
*most* women may not get raped three times, but that doesn't rule it out. More than you'd probably like to think, many women and children are raped multiple times (example: the child who grows up with a sex offender for an uncle or father, or the woman in an abusive marriage who is repeatedly raped her husband).
Stop kicking the poor woman when she's down.
LIC: good luck with the adoption!
*most* women may not get raped three times, but that doesn't rule it out. More than you'd probably like to think, many women and children are raped multiple times (example: the child who grows up with a sex offender for an uncle or father, or the woman in an abusive marriage who is repeatedly raped her husband).
Stop kicking the poor woman when she's down.
LIC: good luck with the adoption!
64
@62 there is no sure-fire way to know when you're ovulating. you can ovulate more than once a month, and you can get pregnant during your period. There is no "safe" window. The rhythm method of birth control is much less reliable than condoms and other forms of birth control.
*most* women may not get raped three times, but that doesn't rule it out. More than you'd probably like to think, many women and children are raped multiple times. what if she grew up in a sexually abusive household, or married an abusive man?
Stop kicking the poor woman when she's down.
LIC: good luck with the adoption!
*most* women may not get raped three times, but that doesn't rule it out. More than you'd probably like to think, many women and children are raped multiple times. what if she grew up in a sexually abusive household, or married an abusive man?
Stop kicking the poor woman when she's down.
LIC: good luck with the adoption!
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