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News & ArtsThursday, April 29, 2010
International "Go black people!!"
Posted by Charles Mudede on Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:41 PM
America has its first black president; China has its first black news anchor:
I cant believe Africans are doing well in China. Chinese people are some of the most racist peoples I have ever met in my entire life and Im Asian as well. Go black people!!Do Chinese people really hate blacks or is this simply a reflection of European attitudes, which are currently the dominant attitudes of our global moment? Meaning, if Chinese people had no idea of European racism, or if Europeans were considered to be culturally inferior, would Chinese people feel the same way about black people?
European racism is not natural but constructed fundamentally by economic pressures that shape history into clear stages and social forms. So, if European racism is unnatural, we can assume that all other forms of racism are unnatural—socially constructed, ideological productions, superstructural. And if it's not natural to hate a black person, then Chinese racism would appear to be a reflection of the form of racism that dominates our globalizing culture.
4
You might be giving humanity a little bit too much credit when you say that European racism is not natural. People have a strong biological tendency to identify with a tribe and hate the people who don't belong to it. There is a long history of belief in racial superiority in Asian cultures. You can see this expressed in the Japanese treatment of the Chinese in WWII, whom they saw as nearly subhuman. Feelings towards Africans are not deeply ingrained due to the lack of African descendants in Asia, but what little sentiments there are tend to be very negative. Imported European attitudes probably only add to the problem, but mostly it arises from the perceived lack of "advanced civilization" in Africa compared to Asian cultures.
5
Read the article regarding the Nubian pharaohs in the Feb 2008 issue of National Geographic. Half of what Charles said isn't made up.
6
One thing is for sure: blacks make up only 8 percent of Seattle, but at least half the murders in Seattle are committed by blacks. Maybe the fact that blacks commit a vastly disproportionate amount of violent crimes like rape and murder, whereever they are found in the world, has something to do with the fact that all other races on earth view blacks as being the stupidest and most prone to violent impulsive outbursts.
7
Charles,
"America has its first black president". Yes, President Obama selected "black" or "African-American" on his Census Form according to the NY Times. There were at least 5 other choices that he could have selected. He also the nation's first bi-racial (his mother was white) and bi-cultural President (his father was African or Kenyan). In short, he selected his identity on the US Census Form. I have no problem with that.
"Are the Chinese really racist...?" I don't know. And, I probably don't care. I find it awesome that this young lady will be an anchor in China. That's far more important. I wish her good luck. She is quite lovely too.
"America has its first black president". Yes, President Obama selected "black" or "African-American" on his Census Form according to the NY Times. There were at least 5 other choices that he could have selected. He also the nation's first bi-racial (his mother was white) and bi-cultural President (his father was African or Kenyan). In short, he selected his identity on the US Census Form. I have no problem with that.
"Are the Chinese really racist...?" I don't know. And, I probably don't care. I find it awesome that this young lady will be an anchor in China. That's far more important. I wish her good luck. She is quite lovely too.
9
Fact: the "Nubian Pharaohs" were invaders who ruled an already faltering, badly decayed egyptian empire for ONLY 75 YEARS - from that same natgeo article you cite, après moi.
Citing the "achievements" of the "Nubian Pharaohs" in ancient Egypt makes as much sense as saying that blacks are responsible for the glory days of Detroit (and not its destrection like in reality). Did you go to evergreen or something?
Citing the "achievements" of the "Nubian Pharaohs" in ancient Egypt makes as much sense as saying that blacks are responsible for the glory days of Detroit (and not its destrection like in reality). Did you go to evergreen or something?
10
Seriously, Chinese people are the clique-iest and most racist people I've ever met. I live in a city outside of Toronto that has a lot of Asians (mostly Chinese), and in the 10 months I've lived here, I've met maybe two or three who were actually polite to me. It's hard not to discriminate when a race proves stereotypes over and over...
12
@10 you mean like how blacks constantly reinforce the "stereotype" of being violent oversexed idiots?!?
13
If we're going to assume A, we might as well assume B ... and then we can assume ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP!
14
"So, if European racism is unnatural, we can assume that all other forms of racism are unnatural—"
WTF CHARLES, NO. We can't make that assumption. Generalizing from one data point, and digging a supposed universal truth out of that generalization is... just fucking dumb, Charles.
WTF CHARLES, NO. We can't make that assumption. Generalizing from one data point, and digging a supposed universal truth out of that generalization is... just fucking dumb, Charles.
16
@12, it's reasonable be concerned when you see a young, black, gang-bangin' looking guy walking down the street. Yeah, it's natural to recoil from something like that. Doesn't mean it's right, and neither is my new-found-discrimination against Asians.
17
Sad to say but from my own personal experience middle-aged & older Chinese people particularly (not all Asians) are very racist
18
China has a pretty bad track record of violations against their own ethnic minorities, such as Uyghrs and Tibetans. What on earth would lead you to believe that they'd be MORE inclusive of Africans, who are significantly more alien to the ancient, insular Han culture? Christ, Mudede.
19
Visiting China (25 years ago) I was astonished at some of the questions we got:
"If you touch a black person, does it rub off on you and you turn black?" (I hope so.)
I'm extremely pale and a young woman asked me if I was a "victim of radiation poisoning."
It seemed that everyone in China had their own unique ideas about Americans and were not shy about asking questions point blank.
It was amazing.
"If you touch a black person, does it rub off on you and you turn black?" (I hope so.)
I'm extremely pale and a young woman asked me if I was a "victim of radiation poisoning."
It seemed that everyone in China had their own unique ideas about Americans and were not shy about asking questions point blank.
It was amazing.
20
Hiroshima got nuked, and today is a prosperous and successful city. Detroit got Negrified, and today has yet to recover. Maybe some progressive researchers should do a study on that? Perhaps they would conclude that it is quite literally easier for a city to recover from being nuked than to rebound from an infestation of blacks.
I’m only half joking here. The historical record would suggest that this is quite literally true.
I’m only half joking here. The historical record would suggest that this is quite literally true.
21
For god's sake. Do you honestly think that racism is an unnatural European thing? The examples of non-white racism throughout history are fucking legion.
23
Millions of blacks are still enslaved today - by other blacks - in Africa - in every black African country, according to the UN. Why don't you "afrocentrics" and naive white liberals EVER discuss that fact? Oh yeah, it just does not fit your agenda or "narrative".
24
Ummm,
"European racism is not natural but constructed fundamentally by economic pressures that shape history into clear stages and social forms"
I visit Europe every year and I can tell you that your statement is completely false.
If a certain group of people exhibit the same anti-social behavior in every country they emigrate to including their own then racism is based on OTHER factors up to and including: social prejudice, cultural prejudice and ethnic prejudice...
To a lot of people- European and otherwise racism is a natural and logical outcome based on the review or analysis of an ethnic group’s behavior- behaviors that can be supported by facts, personal experience, governmental data etc…
Word.
"European racism is not natural but constructed fundamentally by economic pressures that shape history into clear stages and social forms"
I visit Europe every year and I can tell you that your statement is completely false.
If a certain group of people exhibit the same anti-social behavior in every country they emigrate to including their own then racism is based on OTHER factors up to and including: social prejudice, cultural prejudice and ethnic prejudice...
To a lot of people- European and otherwise racism is a natural and logical outcome based on the review or analysis of an ethnic group’s behavior- behaviors that can be supported by facts, personal experience, governmental data etc…
Word.
25
About 2,500 black people were lynched by white racists in the entire history of the USA.
Approximately 8,000 black people are murdered in the USA every year, according to the US Department of Justice.
At least 94% of the murderers of those black victims are also black, also according to the US Department of Justice.
94% of 8000 = 7520
====================================
icasualties.org
Iraq Coalition Military Fatalities By Year
Year USA UK Other Total
2003 486 53 41 580
2004 849 22 35 906
2005 846 23 28 897
2006 822 29 21 872
2007 904 47 10 961
2008 314 4 4 322
2009 141 1 0 142
Total 4362 179 139 4680
===================================
Afghanistan Coalition Military Fatalities By Year
Year US UK Other Total
2001 12 0 0 12
2002 49 3 17 69
2003 48 0 9 57
2004 52 1 7 60
2005 99 1 31 131
2006 98 39 54 191
2007 117 42 73 232
2008 155 51 89 295
2009 290 95 85 470
Total 920 232 365 1517
=======================================
4680 (TOTAL Coalition fatalities in Iraq for the entire 7 years of war) + 1517 (TOTAL Coalition fatalities in Afghanistan in the entire 9 years war) = 6179
--------------------------
7520 (approximate number of blacks killed by blacks every single year in the USA) - [minus] 6179 (TOTAL number of Coalition fatalities in the entire nine years of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined) = 1,341
Thus it is now shown that at least 1,341 more blacks are killed by other blacks in the United States EVERY SINGLE YEAR than the entire number of Coalition fatalities in both the Afghanistan and Iraq wars combined (a period of nine years).
Put another way, in the nine years of the Afghanistan and Iraq war combined, about 6179 Coalition fatalities have occurred (this number includes accidents).
In that same nine year period, in the USA alone, approximately 67,680 black people were murdered by other black people (9 x 7520 = 67,680). That is over TEN TIMES the amount of Coalition soldiers killed in both the Afghanistan and Iraq wars combined. I have not even included non-black victims of blacks murderers. The numbers here represent only black people killed by other black people in the USA over the 9 years of war.
Today in 2009, blacks make up about 26.6% of New York City, but they commit at least 61% of the homicides there, and (in an amazing coincidence) also make up about 61% of the victims there, according to this New York Times interactive homicide map:
http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homici…
Whites make up about 35% of the population of NYC, but committed only about 7 percent of the homicides.
Blacks make up only 8% of Seattle, but half the murders in Seattle every year are committed by blacks.
Simply pointing out indisputable facts about black crime rates in Seattle always brings insults like "Klan meeting" and "racist BS".
You would think, since white Seattle liberals act like they love black people so much, and pay them so much lip service all the time, that the white Seattle liberals would want to know the facts about the challenges and problems affecting the "black community".
BUT as soon as white Seattle liberals (who are totally naive, by the way) are confronted with the undeniable facts about black violent crime in Seattle, they shriek "racist!",
"pointy white hood", "Klan meeting!" and "KKK"!
More...
Approximately 8,000 black people are murdered in the USA every year, according to the US Department of Justice.
At least 94% of the murderers of those black victims are also black, also according to the US Department of Justice.
94% of 8000 = 7520
====================================
icasualties.org
Iraq Coalition Military Fatalities By Year
Year USA UK Other Total
2003 486 53 41 580
2004 849 22 35 906
2005 846 23 28 897
2006 822 29 21 872
2007 904 47 10 961
2008 314 4 4 322
2009 141 1 0 142
Total 4362 179 139 4680
===================================
Afghanistan Coalition Military Fatalities By Year
Year US UK Other Total
2001 12 0 0 12
2002 49 3 17 69
2003 48 0 9 57
2004 52 1 7 60
2005 99 1 31 131
2006 98 39 54 191
2007 117 42 73 232
2008 155 51 89 295
2009 290 95 85 470
Total 920 232 365 1517
=======================================
4680 (TOTAL Coalition fatalities in Iraq for the entire 7 years of war) + 1517 (TOTAL Coalition fatalities in Afghanistan in the entire 9 years war) = 6179
--------------------------
7520 (approximate number of blacks killed by blacks every single year in the USA) - [minus] 6179 (TOTAL number of Coalition fatalities in the entire nine years of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined) = 1,341
Thus it is now shown that at least 1,341 more blacks are killed by other blacks in the United States EVERY SINGLE YEAR than the entire number of Coalition fatalities in both the Afghanistan and Iraq wars combined (a period of nine years).
Put another way, in the nine years of the Afghanistan and Iraq war combined, about 6179 Coalition fatalities have occurred (this number includes accidents).
In that same nine year period, in the USA alone, approximately 67,680 black people were murdered by other black people (9 x 7520 = 67,680). That is over TEN TIMES the amount of Coalition soldiers killed in both the Afghanistan and Iraq wars combined. I have not even included non-black victims of blacks murderers. The numbers here represent only black people killed by other black people in the USA over the 9 years of war.
Today in 2009, blacks make up about 26.6% of New York City, but they commit at least 61% of the homicides there, and (in an amazing coincidence) also make up about 61% of the victims there, according to this New York Times interactive homicide map:
http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homici…
Whites make up about 35% of the population of NYC, but committed only about 7 percent of the homicides.
Blacks make up only 8% of Seattle, but half the murders in Seattle every year are committed by blacks.
Simply pointing out indisputable facts about black crime rates in Seattle always brings insults like "Klan meeting" and "racist BS".
You would think, since white Seattle liberals act like they love black people so much, and pay them so much lip service all the time, that the white Seattle liberals would want to know the facts about the challenges and problems affecting the "black community".
BUT as soon as white Seattle liberals (who are totally naive, by the way) are confronted with the undeniable facts about black violent crime in Seattle, they shriek "racist!",
"pointy white hood", "Klan meeting!" and "KKK"!
27
You could just as easily make the point that economic pressures that shape history into clear stages and social forms are the result of a natural tendency toward European racism. And it would have just as much validity as the point you actually made.
28
I was born and live in San Francisco - the largest Asian community outside of China and I have been told by friends my whole life that they cannot believe how racist their traditional parents and grandparents are. But isn't that true of all races about all other races? This just seems to point out the problem in China but why not take a trip to the Philippines and see how they feel on this issue or go to Hawaii and see how they feel about whites? Or the same in Alaska? Or go to Australia and the racism on both sides of the indigenous and the whites. Once we admit that all have to work on inclusion on a daily basis perhaps we can stop feeling like we have to grab on to our wallets when someone of a different color looks suspicious to us. Just my 2 cents and that is all it is worth.
29
Whoa, I've never been so happy to have the unregistered comments automatically OFF as I have been in this thread...... Whoa.
32
Heh. I had a bit of a double-take when I saw that girl too. She's cute as hell, but I didn't expect to see a black girl on CCTV.
I've been working in inner-China for almost a year now, in a city with very few foreigners. What I've seen here kinda jibes with what's been said in a few of the comments. China seems clique-ish and generally unwelcoming of most foreign cultures, with rich (non-Japanese) nations getting a pass.
Dark skin is seen as a sign of poverty here. A tool for stereotyping. Chinese girls buy skin whiteners by the jug, hoping to get that fair skin that says, "I'm no farmer's daughter." But the NBA is also wildly popular, which suggests that discrimination against Africans is rooted more in the poverty than the color. I've asked for opinions on varying places like India and Mexico, and the response is usually tied to some vague notion of a nation's wealth.
I've been working in inner-China for almost a year now, in a city with very few foreigners. What I've seen here kinda jibes with what's been said in a few of the comments. China seems clique-ish and generally unwelcoming of most foreign cultures, with rich (non-Japanese) nations getting a pass.
Dark skin is seen as a sign of poverty here. A tool for stereotyping. Chinese girls buy skin whiteners by the jug, hoping to get that fair skin that says, "I'm no farmer's daughter." But the NBA is also wildly popular, which suggests that discrimination against Africans is rooted more in the poverty than the color. I've asked for opinions on varying places like India and Mexico, and the response is usually tied to some vague notion of a nation's wealth.
33
@4 People have a strong biological tendency to identify with a tribe and hate the people who don't belong to it.
Yes this is the dominant fable currently. But talk about made up!
Yes this is the dominant fable currently. But talk about made up!
35
Clearly you're ignorant of Chinese history. The Chinese word for foreigner is best translated as "barbarian." Like the Japanese, the Chinese regarded themselves as being a divine race- by extension, all other races were suspect at best, chattel at worst. The Chinese word for Westerner, "gwailo" speaks to the racial perspective Chinese- the word means "ghost" referring to the pallor of white people. None of this information is terribly obscure. Try doing basic research before you use your priveleged position to reinforce an ignorant, knee-jerk "blame whitey," perspective. We deserve much, much better from the writer of Police Beat.
36
@10, Gee, with that attitude, I wonder why Chinese people don't like you. Sounds like you're predisposed to seeing stereotypes and therefore confirming them in your own mind. Most peoples of a culture tend to keep to themselves, and that includes white North Americans.
@35, The Chinese word for foreigner (waiguoren) means "person from outside of the country." Even if you mean old Chinese words not in regular use anymore, they don't mean "barbarian" per se. They were just names for the tribes of people outside of the what the Chinese considered China. I'm not saying they didn't consider them uncivilized, but you are exaggerating a little bit. The Chinese word for westerner is not "gwailo." That's a Cantonese slur for foreigner, and it has less to do with their color than their behavior in the Imperial Age (Opium Wars, Unequal Treaties, etc.). The word gwai can mean ghost, but it's better translated as demon. The Japanese were referred to by the same word during the Sino-Japanese War (which turned into the second World War). I don't disagree that Mudede is completely wrong about blaming Chinese racism against Africans on whites (whites are responsible for homophobia in Asia, not racism), but you need to do some basic research on your own, and I don't mean Wikipedia.
@35, The Chinese word for foreigner (waiguoren) means "person from outside of the country." Even if you mean old Chinese words not in regular use anymore, they don't mean "barbarian" per se. They were just names for the tribes of people outside of the what the Chinese considered China. I'm not saying they didn't consider them uncivilized, but you are exaggerating a little bit. The Chinese word for westerner is not "gwailo." That's a Cantonese slur for foreigner, and it has less to do with their color than their behavior in the Imperial Age (Opium Wars, Unequal Treaties, etc.). The word gwai can mean ghost, but it's better translated as demon. The Japanese were referred to by the same word during the Sino-Japanese War (which turned into the second World War). I don't disagree that Mudede is completely wrong about blaming Chinese racism against Africans on whites (whites are responsible for homophobia in Asia, not racism), but you need to do some basic research on your own, and I don't mean Wikipedia.
38
Any sane person would much rather live in a Chinese neighborhood instead of a black neighborhood.
39
Seconding Andy's comments. I've heard rebengui throughout my life, which is slang meaning Japanese demon, but never "gwailo." The slang I've heard for foreigners is laowai, which just mean ol' outsider, and being old is not a negative in China.
40
If racism is so natural then why do we find the notion of race redefined throughout the century. The term 'white' for instance is not a term that 19th century Americans or Britons would have used to describe people who were italian or Greek. But now it is. So if race is a category that is not objective (therefore constructed) then racism has to be too. I believe that how a group defines itself as and defines itself against changes with circumstances. So the argument that it is natural to like ppl of your own group and dislike another doesn't make sense. It doesn't explain why two distinct groups can get along while two other distinct groups do not. Why do some groups form an alliance and intermarry to become a racial or ethnic group, while other groups do not. How is a tribe form? It is constructed for different political, economical, or etc reasons and after a while it seems natural. but it is still constructed.
41
@2, @22 Sociologically speaking, racism is a Western construct. "Us and them" isn't, but "us and them" was never institutionalized in, for instance, China, Japan, or the Middle East, the way it was in the West. Clannishness, nationalism, and fear of the "other" is something that has occurred in almost every culture ever. But racism, which has been historically defined by a position of power and "unchangeable, naturally-occurring" qualities, was invented by the West. Romans had slaves of every color and nationality. It wasn't until Christianity came along that it only became okay to have black slaves, because they were "the sons of Ham," and therefore cursed: marked with black skin and destined to be the slaves of white people. When that idea lost power - when blacks started converting to Christianity (you're not supposed to enslave other Christians) - white people turned to "natural, immutable, unchanging characteristics" to justify slavery, and later discrimination. I'm speaking only from a sociological and historical perspective, but using "that's just the way people are" excuse to discount the argument that racism is constructed isn't looking at the larger picture. Actually, that excuse means you're still stuck inside the construct.
43
I was from China, and now am somewhat racist after resided in the U.S. for 8 years. The Chinese mainland has a long history of friendship with black African countries. For instance, please check the story of Tazara railroad. In the Chinese domestic medias, blacks are usually good, nice, and friendly. The plans I made before I boarded on a flight towards the U.S. even included "to have black friends and learn their culture". During the 8 years in the U.S., what I have witnessed has changed my mind. I have a question to the Africans in the U.S: Why don't your African fathers spend more time educating your children to be decent creatures? I am proud to be a Chinese American. My community values education and hard working. Our children compose a high percentage in U.S. colleges. There are great amount of Chinese scientists, engineers and doctors in the U.S. In short, we CONTRIBUTE to this country, instead of CONSUME this country.
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