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News & ArtsWednesday, April 14, 2010
Politics Polling the Tea Party
Posted by Eli Sanders on Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 5:49 PM
The New York Times takes a deep dive into the lives and minds of Tea Party members in an interesting poll out this afternoon.
Tea party supporters are wealthier and more well-educated than the general public, tend to be Republican, white, male, and married, and their strong opposition to the Obama administration is more rooted in political ideology than anxiety about their personal economic situation, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll...In some ways, Tea Party supporters look like the general public. For instance, despite their allusions to Revolutionary War-era tax protesters, most describe the amount they paid in taxes this year as “fair.” Most send their children to public schools, do not think Sarah Palin is qualified to be president, and, despite their push for smaller government, think that Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost. They are actually more likely than the general public to have returned their census forms, despite some conservative leaders urging a boycott.
Their fierce animosity toward Washington, and the president in particular, is rooted in deep pessimism about the direction of the country and the conviction that the policies of the Obama administration are disproportionately directed at helping the poor rather than the middle class or the rich.
I'm sure the "wealthier and more well-educated" finding is correct, but it's definitely not the impression I got from the subset of Tea Partiers I met in Yakima over the weekend. For those folks, being angry at programs that help the poor more than they help the middle class and the wealthy seems, well, rather self-defeating.
Meanwhile, this finding seems like a delicate way of saying what Frank Rich and others have said far more directly: many in the Tea Party are motivated by feelings of racial anxiety (or, more bluntly, racism).
The overwhelming majority of Tea Party supporters say Mr. Obama does not share the values most Americans live by, and that he does not understand the problems of people like themselves. More than half say the policies of the administration favor the poor, and 25 percent, compared with 11 percent of the general public, think that the administration favors blacks over whites. They are more likely than the general public, and Republicans, to say that too much has been made of the problems facing black people.
1
I think the people who identify with "Tea Party" in polls are a larger demographic than those who show up AT some of the events.
I think a lot of Tea Partiers are libertarians that are upset with where things went under the Republican rule - you know, namely in the "larger debt" direction - but aren't about to embrace the Democrats with their traditional "welfare state."
And you must also remember the Tea Partiers who get coverage are often the dumber, more outrageous ones, and for the same reason that the 10,000 who turn out to a Tea Party get way more attention than 10,000 who turn out for immigration reform. Immigration reform bring out opinions that's germane, consistent, well-informed and "boring."
Tea Parties are often hilarious. It's like Keystone Kops: Political Edition. So yeah, the cherry-picking is to blame (though without the cherry-picking, I doubt the Tea Party would get much coverage).
I think a lot of Tea Partiers are libertarians that are upset with where things went under the Republican rule - you know, namely in the "larger debt" direction - but aren't about to embrace the Democrats with their traditional "welfare state."
And you must also remember the Tea Partiers who get coverage are often the dumber, more outrageous ones, and for the same reason that the 10,000 who turn out to a Tea Party get way more attention than 10,000 who turn out for immigration reform. Immigration reform bring out opinions that's germane, consistent, well-informed and "boring."
Tea Parties are often hilarious. It's like Keystone Kops: Political Edition. So yeah, the cherry-picking is to blame (though without the cherry-picking, I doubt the Tea Party would get much coverage).
2
That's the problem: well-educated doesn't always sound intelligent to most people.
A lot of those hyuck-hyuck ranchers out in Texas are sitting on millions of dollars and MBAs from east coast schools.
A lot of those hyuck-hyuck ranchers out in Texas are sitting on millions of dollars and MBAs from east coast schools.
4
(Whoops. Don't mistake me for accusing you of cherry-picking, Eli. I'm just not surprised most "average" Tea Partiers who choose to respond to pollsters are wealthier and more educated than the people that a camera runs into a given event might seem.)
5
Eli, I think the overwhelming majority of Tea Party members wouldn't go near events like that Yakima thing with a ten foot pole.
6
from my reading of their dregs;
after having the astoturf pulled out from under them, the tea party is quickly running out of steam.
after having the astoturf pulled out from under them, the tea party is quickly running out of steam.
7
@1: Then it seems they would have an irreconcilable public image crisis.
If in essence this is another face of Libertarians, then I really have little to worry about. I remember Perot and where that went. At the time, I had friends my age (late teens) who were ardent Perot supporters, and it never made sense to me why (except for that bit that they were far wealthier than my own roots).
Separately, I've also been pretty good chums with Libertarian, educated, and (yes) white folk who've even run for major office seats as Libertarians. They were formally educated, but I never really sensed they were the most empathetic people to carry on a discussion, politics aside. And really, while the fevered pitch of press coverage for Tea Partiers is at a peak these days, it seems highly doubtful that the momentum can continue with steadiness, just as the momentum to push the Green Party of the U.S. a decade ago eventually lost cohesion.
Call a spade a spade, but I don't think that's going to be the thing that dissolves this momentum. Where race is concerned, I sense that people will eventually hang themselves in their local communities and in the press when they slip and pull some Tea Party "macaca moment" or equivalent.
@2: Indeed!
If in essence this is another face of Libertarians, then I really have little to worry about. I remember Perot and where that went. At the time, I had friends my age (late teens) who were ardent Perot supporters, and it never made sense to me why (except for that bit that they were far wealthier than my own roots).
Separately, I've also been pretty good chums with Libertarian, educated, and (yes) white folk who've even run for major office seats as Libertarians. They were formally educated, but I never really sensed they were the most empathetic people to carry on a discussion, politics aside. And really, while the fevered pitch of press coverage for Tea Partiers is at a peak these days, it seems highly doubtful that the momentum can continue with steadiness, just as the momentum to push the Green Party of the U.S. a decade ago eventually lost cohesion.
Call a spade a spade, but I don't think that's going to be the thing that dissolves this momentum. Where race is concerned, I sense that people will eventually hang themselves in their local communities and in the press when they slip and pull some Tea Party "macaca moment" or equivalent.
@2: Indeed!
8
That's because "I'm worried that Obama's policies are leading this country into Socialism" translates to "I got mine. Fuck everyone else."
The typical Tea Party dude looks like a typical Libertarian: White, middle-age, upper-middle class, possessed of a boundless sense of entitlement and unmerited superiority.
Mostly, he's "fed up." He thinks this makes him special.
The typical Tea Party dude looks like a typical Libertarian: White, middle-age, upper-middle class, possessed of a boundless sense of entitlement and unmerited superiority.
Mostly, he's "fed up." He thinks this makes him special.
9
If you see the documentary about the Weathermen, they said that at one point there were something like 3 agents for every real member.
Might explain what you see...
If you see the documentary about the Weathermen, they said that at one point there were something like 3 agents for every real member.
Might explain what you see...
10
@7: Yeah, good points. Also, Eli was in Yakima. I'm just sayin' I think polls pick up a different demographic that we less often see out on the streets via TV, as Fnarf points out.
@8: Yeah, there's that too. But some libertarians are actually principled, and we shouldn't so easily dismiss those principles, in my view.
Also, I can't wait until some idiot like Alleged gets a hold of this gem: "Most ... do not think Sarah Palin is qualified to be president, and, despite their push for smaller government, think that Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost." That'll be great to watch.
@8: Yeah, there's that too. But some libertarians are actually principled, and we shouldn't so easily dismiss those principles, in my view.
Also, I can't wait until some idiot like Alleged gets a hold of this gem: "Most ... do not think Sarah Palin is qualified to be president, and, despite their push for smaller government, think that Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost." That'll be great to watch.
11
Obama is a self-made man from a middle-class, at best, background. No dad, wierd mom, didn't look anything like his grandparents or most people he went to school with. He earned everything he got through hard work, self-discipline and intelligence.
How the fuck is that "not sharing the values Americans live by"? He makes me feel like a wworthless slacker.
Just because you've got a college degree doesn't mean you know fuck all. It's quite easy to get a technical degree (this includes a Medical degree), take mickey courses that meet your non-major requirements (history of film, human sexuality), and graduate knowing jack shit about humanities, philosophy, history, or basic human decency.
How the fuck is that "not sharing the values Americans live by"? He makes me feel like a wworthless slacker.
Just because you've got a college degree doesn't mean you know fuck all. It's quite easy to get a technical degree (this includes a Medical degree), take mickey courses that meet your non-major requirements (history of film, human sexuality), and graduate knowing jack shit about humanities, philosophy, history, or basic human decency.
12
Too lazy to read the link, but do these sages also comment on whether they value government functions like clean water, safe workplaces, driveable roads, etc?
15
Wait, let me get this straight... They polled, i.e. asked some questions of tea baggers, and they didn't just admit to being racist loons? Im' stunned by this. So i guess we can just ignore their racist slogans and signs at their rallies now since thats not "really" what they're about.
Amazing work New York Times!
Amazing work New York Times!
16
despite their push for smaller government, think that Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost.
...and this is exactly why I can't stand the Tea Party folks when they yammer on about "Obamacare". If they had an ounce of intellectual consistency, they'd be pushing for ending Medicare in addition to opposing health care reform. They won't, as that would be self-defeating, both financially (for most of them) and politically.
17
@16: Some are. But it's really only the less-informed, Fox News talking points-fed people you see complaining about Medicare cuts and government takeovers in the same breath.
Many more are principled conservatives want to see "comprehensive entitlement reform" that eliminates/privatizes Medicare for the people who don't currently have it (ie. Paul Ryan) instead of a universal coverage plan ala health care reform. This is a position I respect much more greatly than "keep the government's hands off my Medicare!"
Others are just Medicare recipients who could care less about the rest of us so long as their entitlement doesn't get cut. That's less intellectually consistent. But among them are people that don't really mind a government takeover, they're just terrified they'll lose their Medicare now that the bill passed. Most of them will probably change their minds on the bill when their Medicare stays the same, so I'm not really sure how much of the "Tea Party" that really represents.
Many more are principled conservatives want to see "comprehensive entitlement reform" that eliminates/privatizes Medicare for the people who don't currently have it (ie. Paul Ryan) instead of a universal coverage plan ala health care reform. This is a position I respect much more greatly than "keep the government's hands off my Medicare!"
Others are just Medicare recipients who could care less about the rest of us so long as their entitlement doesn't get cut. That's less intellectually consistent. But among them are people that don't really mind a government takeover, they're just terrified they'll lose their Medicare now that the bill passed. Most of them will probably change their minds on the bill when their Medicare stays the same, so I'm not really sure how much of the "Tea Party" that really represents.
18
Just when you thought the Teabaggers couldn't get more ridiculous: A grass-roots movement (instigated, funded, and controlled directly by Fox News) wants smaller government (and more Medicare) calling for violence against a center-left middle-class self-made president (and there's nothing racist about it nuh uh no way, they just think he's a Kenyan Muslim in spite of all the evidence to the contrary) made up of the well-educated and well-off (who can't spell).
--can't spell, can't tell the difference between Fascism and Socialism, don't understand that the current administration and Congress has a legitimate mandate, but their still somehow well-educated and well-off...
...Surely their Stupid has to be approaching critical mass?
Please?
Please God?
Tell me it's so?
--can't spell, can't tell the difference between Fascism and Socialism, don't understand that the current administration and Congress has a legitimate mandate, but their still somehow well-educated and well-off...
...Surely their Stupid has to be approaching critical mass?
Please?
Please God?
Tell me it's so?
19
http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/18/tea-par…
"Tuesday's Tea Party crowd, however, thought that federal taxes were almost three times as high as they actually are. The average response was 42% of GDP and the median 40%. The highest figure recorded in all of American history was half those figures: 20.9% at the peak of World War II in 1944."
"Tuesday's Tea Party crowd, however, thought that federal taxes were almost three times as high as they actually are. The average response was 42% of GDP and the median 40%. The highest figure recorded in all of American history was half those figures: 20.9% at the peak of World War II in 1944."
20
If you define "Tea Bagger" as someone who has actually participated in a "Tea Party" protest, you'd get an entirely different demographic picture than this.
21
Look. I've watched many clips, videos and interviews over the last few months, with tea baggers, and before I would ever concede they are "more well-educated" than the general public, I'd want to see their College Degrees first.
People do lie, over the phone, as well, you know. Even when taking a poll. My guess is they're tired of being portrayed as uneducated, so they inflate that aspect of the polling. If I wanted the person taking a poll to think I was smart enough to know the "whys" of what I'm doing, I could tell them I have my PhD too. Boy, then wouldn't the poll numbers look impressive.
As my proof, I'd say most people with a higher education are less racist. The percentages just don't fit the profile.
People do lie, over the phone, as well, you know. Even when taking a poll. My guess is they're tired of being portrayed as uneducated, so they inflate that aspect of the polling. If I wanted the person taking a poll to think I was smart enough to know the "whys" of what I'm doing, I could tell them I have my PhD too. Boy, then wouldn't the poll numbers look impressive.
As my proof, I'd say most people with a higher education are less racist. The percentages just don't fit the profile.
22
21
Liberal Bullshit Translation:
"I prefer my bigotries, prejudices and misconceptions-
don't confuse me with the facts, puleezzzz..."
Liberal Bullshit Translation:
"I prefer my bigotries, prejudices and misconceptions-
don't confuse me with the facts, puleezzzz..."
23
Why is the liberal left finding it so troublesome to tolerate legitimate dissent to the current administration? One would think that liberals are the first ones to champion "the marketplace of ideas" as the cornerstone of a free and democratic society.
24
These are the baby boomers with the pithy 'I'm speanding my kids inheritance' bumper-stickers not so ironically plastered to the bumpers of their RVs. The attitude is 'I got mine so screw you'. They like to think of themselves as rugged self-made individuals (John Galt types) who didn't benefit from their parent's sacrafice of blood (WWII) sweat (the great depression) and hard work (taxes up to 90% for the top earners). They don't recognize that they benefitted from being educated in well funded schools, riding and driving on new roads and easy high paid employment after leaving school (high school and/or college). They want to pull up the ladder after them. In short they're assholes.
25
@23 because there's a difference between thinly veiled white nationalism and the kind of reasoned, "legitimate dissent" you're talking about.
26
@23 because there's a difference between thinly veiled white nationalism and the kind of reasoned "legitimate dissent" you're talking about.
27
@23: We got no problem with legitimate dissent. We do have problems with the 'baggers general hypocrisy and ignorance. With respect to ignorance, it starts with their fundamental misreading of the Constitution.
28
White male entitlement worried that it's going to lose its position of privilege?
Oh my, that doesn't sound plausible to me at all.
The teabaggers are lunatics, but they're the public face. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there's a bit of a silent partnership behind the scenes, providing the money.
Oh my, that doesn't sound plausible to me at all.
The teabaggers are lunatics, but they're the public face. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there's a bit of a silent partnership behind the scenes, providing the money.
29
@23 Hyperbole and exaggeration do not qualify as "legitimate dissent". Hyperbole and exaggeration have plainly shown themselves to be the cornerstones of Tea Party ideology.
30
@23: I don't really have a problem with their dissent. But I can disagree with it, can I not?
The country is moving back in a positive direction, in my viewpoint. When it was moving in a negative direction, I was "dissenting."
So yeah. No one is impeaching anyone's right to dissent. But that's totally different from responding to viewpoints you disagree with, even if those viewpoints happen to be "dissenting" ones.
The country is moving back in a positive direction, in my viewpoint. When it was moving in a negative direction, I was "dissenting."
So yeah. No one is impeaching anyone's right to dissent. But that's totally different from responding to viewpoints you disagree with, even if those viewpoints happen to be "dissenting" ones.
31
@29: I dunno about that. I think this depends a little bit on what how one defines "legitimate."
That being said, we can safely identify hyperbole and exaggeration as "stupid." I tend to disagree with stupid dissent, though I might acknowledge it too has a place in our free exchange of ideas.
If nothing else, it's there to be totally hilarious.
That being said, we can safely identify hyperbole and exaggeration as "stupid." I tend to disagree with stupid dissent, though I might acknowledge it too has a place in our free exchange of ideas.
If nothing else, it's there to be totally hilarious.
32
The 'baggers are not just afraid of Blacks, Latinos, etc., entering the middleclass. They're afraid of Generation Y catching a break - ironically, the very generation they'll have to rely on to keep Social Security and Medicare afloat.
They're afraid the kids will go off on some new communitarian ethic that means America won't be the biggest baddest bully on the block anymore, and that this will bring about some nameless jack-off fantasy of Armageddon. They could care less whether they get their check or not - until they don't, of course.
They're mad as hell that their self-destructive magical thinking isn't being deferred to and given special privilege.
They're afraid the kids will go off on some new communitarian ethic that means America won't be the biggest baddest bully on the block anymore, and that this will bring about some nameless jack-off fantasy of Armageddon. They could care less whether they get their check or not - until they don't, of course.
They're mad as hell that their self-destructive magical thinking isn't being deferred to and given special privilege.
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