Slog
News & ArtsThursday, April 8, 2010
Religion Provoked and Careless
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:34 AM
WOW:
"There are 13 year old adolescents who are under age and who are perfectly in agreement with, and what’s more wanting it, and if you are careless they will even provoke you."
That's Spanish Bishop Bernando Alvarez coming to the defense of Catholic priests who've raped children—but they only raped the slutty ones, the ones who wanted it, so it's all good.
Jesus. Fucking. Christ. The bishop also believes that gay people are sick and that children need to be protected. From us. Not from all those easily provoked Catholic priests, but from openly gay adults who carelessly sleep with other consenting adults.
6
Can you imagine the pandemonium that would result if a representative of the gay community tried to justify gay statuary rape along the same lines?
The really depressing thing is that there are millions of loyal conservative Catholics who will do their damnedest to mentally convince themselves that Bishop Bernando Alvarez is absolutely right.
The really depressing thing is that there are millions of loyal conservative Catholics who will do their damnedest to mentally convince themselves that Bishop Bernando Alvarez is absolutely right.
7
Instead of teaching kids to run from strangers, we should have been teaching them to run from priests. Who knew?
10
The Catholic hierarchy should invest in a few dozen cases of duct tape. That, and a tank truck full of Depo-Provera (USP, for injection).
11
Like I just said to the missus, we're seeing the beginning of the actual end of the Catholic church. It's never been this insane.
13
No, Joe, not the end. But it may very well be the beginning of a reformation the likes of which nobody's seen for hundreds of years.
15
His first appalling comment concerning the youth is precisely were I part ways with some representatives of the Catholic church. Even if today's kids are more knowledgeable than other generations were about fringe sexual practices that still does not excuses criminal behavior by adults who should know better and who are representing the church and Christ teachings. It only serves to diminish the facts he referenced to later and takes away from the validity of his second point concerning the erroneous acceptance by the church of individuals whose conduct is not only in complete contradiction with the nature of the nuclear family and church teachings but has also been in great part the cause for the disastrous crimes that have been committed repeatedly.
16
Not surprised, not at all. Their attempt to cover up and silence their victims has fallen short. The next logical step is to blame the victims and to attempt to draw further attention to their favorite 'scape goats' the gays. Together their victims and the gays make a super 'scape goat' and just like it is translated in the Christian Old Testament, they will lay all their sins upon their 'scape goat' as a mystical transfer of guilt and lead their goat out into the wilderness to die. Only one problem though, Christians only have one 'scape goat' known to them as "the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world". By not taking ownership, they are not repenting but telling the world that is their Saviors fault when they 'scape goat' their guilt to their victims, both the children and gays.
18
while it's the typical twisted Catholic stuff, this is not a defense of child molesting priests - the interview is from X-mas 2007
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/sociedad/…
and the child abuse issue wasn't receiving much media attention outside the US at that time.
What this is, instead, is a typical Santorum line attack on homosexuality: "If you can't say homosexuality is wrong, how are you going to say child-abuse is wrong?"
Obviously, about 15 answers come right to mind (which part of "consenting adults" do you not understand..), but I find this a lot less noteworthy (while only slightly less disgusing) as it's a pretty typical argument by conservative Catholics.
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/sociedad/…
and the child abuse issue wasn't receiving much media attention outside the US at that time.
What this is, instead, is a typical Santorum line attack on homosexuality: "If you can't say homosexuality is wrong, how are you going to say child-abuse is wrong?"
Obviously, about 15 answers come right to mind (which part of "consenting adults" do you not understand..), but I find this a lot less noteworthy (while only slightly less disgusing) as it's a pretty typical argument by conservative Catholics.
19
It is the boy's fault because he dressed like a slutty alter boy! He shouldn't have dressed that way if he didn't want it! When will they stop parading themselves in front of the priests like that?
20
@15 Wow. A LC post I'm more or less in agreement with.
(Not that I've thought homosexuality is >in complete contradiction with the nature of the nuclear family< all this time, but that that's true of enforced clerical celibacy.)
But apart from that...
Wow. LC and I agree. It really is time for the RCC to just blow away and die. Turn St. Peter's into a museum.
(Not that I've thought homosexuality is >in complete contradiction with the nature of the nuclear family< all this time, but that that's true of enforced clerical celibacy.)
But apart from that...
Wow. LC and I agree. It really is time for the RCC to just blow away and die. Turn St. Peter's into a museum.
22
Oh my god, THE RAGE.
In the immortal words of Madeline Kahn: "Flames...on the SIDE of my face...BREATHing...breath...heaving breaths...HEAVing..."
In the immortal words of Madeline Kahn: "Flames...on the SIDE of my face...BREATHing...breath...heaving breaths...HEAVing..."
23
Only a man dressed in the cloak of religion could tell a crowd "The kids are asking for it, c'mon, give us a break" and not get tackled to the ground.
26
Why can't the church castrate these fuckers before they give them sanctuary? Make castration a requirement for priesthood.
27
holy christ! This gets more and more crazy. I have nothing to else to say. I'm just flabbergasted by all this.
29
Little kids are such whores. They'll sit on your lap and bounce up & down, or wrap themselves around your thigh, and then act all innocent like they're not trying to get you into bed.
Yeah, right -- like anybody's going to believe THAT.
Yeah, right -- like anybody's going to believe THAT.
31
@26,
The church puts great stock in priests resisting earthly temptation. Castrate them, and they can't prove how pure they are. If I'm not mistaken, his castration is one reason (maybe the only reason) why Abelard hasn't been canonized.
The church puts great stock in priests resisting earthly temptation. Castrate them, and they can't prove how pure they are. If I'm not mistaken, his castration is one reason (maybe the only reason) why Abelard hasn't been canonized.
32
Blame the victim! The age old excuse used by wife-beaters, gay-bashers, child abusers and now child molesters...
"There are 13 year old adolescents who are under age... wanting it, and if you are careless they will even provoke you."
That's just card carrying NAMBLA talk if you ask me...
"There are 13 year old adolescents who are under age... wanting it, and if you are careless they will even provoke you."
That's just card carrying NAMBLA talk if you ask me...
33
@18 already said it - this is old news. But in light of the shit going down in the last month, I'll bet His Eminence will be hard-pressed to defend such comments. Apparently the rest of the diocese backpedaled a few days later, but it won't be enough.
laopinion.es has pulled the original interview. Shame.
laopinion.es has pulled the original interview. Shame.
34
@31, @36 -- and hey, the whole castration thing might have multiple benefits, if they know they're getting their balls chopped off maybe less men will become priests in the first place, thus slowly ending the RCC. And the ones that do have the balls (ha ha) to become priests won't want to fuck children. Two birds with one stone, heyyah!
35
I just absolutely can't fucking believe that. That has to be the WORSE excuse for pedophilia that I've EVER heard. I'm really glad that my grandfather was already dead when all this bullshit came out because if he wasn't, it would've killed him. I agree with previous posters, if we aren't witnessing the beginning of the end of the Catholic church then we're at least witnessing to a lead to up to a reformation that's going to make Vatican 2 look like Breakin' 2 (Electric Boogaloo!).
36
I want to point out that the priests chose to molest children. If they really needed to get off, they most likely could have convinced a adult church attendee instead. I'm not saying this is right, they probably should just let Catholic priests marry or date, I'm just saying they chose children because they are disgusting pedophiles. If they really wanted to fuck someone, they could have chosen a consenting adult. Not innocent, trusting, terrified kids. It's on them and to blame the victim is cowardly.
37
It's not every day that reality manages to out-onion the Onion:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/pope-vo…
http://www.theonion.com/articles/pope-vo…
39
@ 11 Sorry to disagree, but the Catholic Church has always been this insane. People have just forgotten cause they're not allowed to burn heretics and witches at the cross anymore.
40
@1 - Your comment demonstrates exactly why I have such a problem with people who too eager to jump in at every available moment and scream "OMG EVILS OF RELIGION!!!111!!"
It's not because I have any great love of organized religion...certainly not the Catholic church.
It's because people need to take responsibility for their OWN ACTIONS, as individuals and societies. Religion doesn't warp minds, create pedophiles, or start wars, and getting rid of it won't end those actions.
It's not because I have any great love of organized religion...certainly not the Catholic church.
It's because people need to take responsibility for their OWN ACTIONS, as individuals and societies. Religion doesn't warp minds, create pedophiles, or start wars, and getting rid of it won't end those actions.
42
@40 - if the church didn't create an enviroment where child rape was tacitly encouraged or at least consistantly overlooked, then why is it so prevelant?
45
I agree with @32. This is straight up child molester speak. The only difference between is this:
Nambla: The kids want it, which is why I give it to them
Bishop Alverez: The kids want it, which is why it is sooo hard to resist giving it to them.
I guarantee this guy is a child molester. You can't say stuff like that unless your brain has already made all the excuses. You don't need to make the excuses if you are not interested.
As to the reformation point, I don't see how we get there from here. John Paul II packed the cardinals with guys like this. Don't forget who was the actual Pope when a lot of this was happening. JP put Benedict in the position where he supervised a lot of this. With the Catholic church just laced up tight with conservatives and hard liners, I don't think there is any route to reformation.
The only way I see it happening is if the scandal gets to be about 100 times as significant as it is now. Donations and attendance would have to drop like a stone. Members would have to leave in huge droves while new members stopped joining. In the absence of all that, the institutional clamp down that John Paul II managed will prevail. Right now, the church sees this as a PR crises. It would have to morph into a genuine crises in terms of bodies and dollars to have any chance of a real reformation.
Nambla: The kids want it, which is why I give it to them
Bishop Alverez: The kids want it, which is why it is sooo hard to resist giving it to them.
I guarantee this guy is a child molester. You can't say stuff like that unless your brain has already made all the excuses. You don't need to make the excuses if you are not interested.
As to the reformation point, I don't see how we get there from here. John Paul II packed the cardinals with guys like this. Don't forget who was the actual Pope when a lot of this was happening. JP put Benedict in the position where he supervised a lot of this. With the Catholic church just laced up tight with conservatives and hard liners, I don't think there is any route to reformation.
The only way I see it happening is if the scandal gets to be about 100 times as significant as it is now. Donations and attendance would have to drop like a stone. Members would have to leave in huge droves while new members stopped joining. In the absence of all that, the institutional clamp down that John Paul II managed will prevail. Right now, the church sees this as a PR crises. It would have to morph into a genuine crises in terms of bodies and dollars to have any chance of a real reformation.
46
Loveschild said: ...erroneous acceptance by the church of individuals whose conduct is not only in complete contradiction with the nature of the nuclear family...
But the very existence of (ostensibly) celibate priests is in complete contradiction with the nature of the nuclear family, moron!
But the very existence of (ostensibly) celibate priests is in complete contradiction with the nature of the nuclear family, moron!
47
Of course thirteen year old boys (and girls) are horny and provoking! Priests, however, are adults and are supposed to ... Have ... More ... Self-Control ... than kids just hitting puberty. Just because you get a tingle in your pants doesn't mean you have to do something about it right then and there with that person. Gah. Notice that the public scandel isn't about the priests who get it on with say, other priests (and I'd bet good money it happens more than we hear); it's about priests having sex with kids!
48
food for thought..... how common is this to men?
men always say they are proveked (by children they rape, by women they rape, etc...) by provocative actions they are the only ones to see . If I were an anthropologist I will study this in detail. wwhy is it that men are always feeling 'provoked' to rape?
catholic priests are plain disgusting.
men always say they are proveked (by children they rape, by women they rape, etc...) by provocative actions they are the only ones to see . If I were an anthropologist I will study this in detail. wwhy is it that men are always feeling 'provoked' to rape?
catholic priests are plain disgusting.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
All You Motherfuckers Complaining That aPodments Are Too Small at 200 Square Feet by Dominic Holden
-
SL Letter of the Day: Did You Think I Was Going To Tell You Not To Come Out? (PLUS: Help Free Kate!) by Dan Savage
-
It's Spring! Who's Ready for Street Harassment? by Cienna Madrid
-
Rightwing Anti-Gay French Activist Commits Suicide at Notre Dame Cathedral by Dan Savage
-
America's Epidemic of Toddler-on-Toddler Gun Violence Continues by Goldy
-
Dutch Artist Turns Dead Cat into Remote-Controlled Helicopter by Bethany Jean Clement
-
Slog Overnight by Dan Savage
-
Saint Genet Re-Creates "Shoot" by Brendan Kiley
-
New Gun Enthusiast... by Dan Savage
-
The Geography Hate by Charles Mudede
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (48) RSS