Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, March 23, 2010
News Transgendered Washington State Attorney General Rob McKenna Betrays His Community
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 9:45 AM
For shame, Rob.
UPDATE: I'm getting some very angry emails about this post. What can I say? I'm so sorry. I wrote the post in a hurry but that's really no excuse. But I promise that in all future posts about Rob McKenna I will not fail to include a link to the Facebook page "Washington Tax Payers OPT OUT of Rob McKenna's Lawsuit."
This is a joke, obviously. Rob McKenna is not transgender. Follow the link for more.
2
Wait, really, what? He's married to someone named Marilyn McKenna: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_McKenna That wouldn't be legal.
4
Fabulous.
@2 -- wouldn't it? It's not a subject I've ever read up on, but I thought as long as someone is LEGALLY of one sex, they can marry someone who is LEGALLY of the other sex.
@2 -- wouldn't it? It's not a subject I've ever read up on, but I thought as long as someone is LEGALLY of one sex, they can marry someone who is LEGALLY of the other sex.
5
Actually it's perfectly legal (a trans person marrying after their SRS), but unfortunately, Rob McKenna just looks like an ftm, and is not one.
7
I want to see Mckenna trashed as much as anyone, but calling him transgendered like it is some kind of insult? Way uncool.
We have real reasons to shame him- let's use them.
We have real reasons to shame him- let's use them.
10
@2 Yes, since transgendered people can legally change their sex as it appears ont heir birth certificate (and everywhere else) they are the lucky members of the LGBT community who can marry who they in all fifty states (at least if they're straight).
11
When I first met him nearly 20 years ago, he (and he certainly appeared like a HE back then) was changing the diaper on a baby he claimed was his). Just sayin'
12
OK...yesterday I commented about how LGBT activists might want to get a bit Teabaggish and I got ignored/rebutted.
What is this post if it's not an example of the worst the Teabaggers would offer?
TEA not DOUCHE Dan....
What is this post if it's not an example of the worst the Teabaggers would offer?
TEA not DOUCHE Dan....
13
Dan Savage, stop it with the FTM shit. You're doing it wrong. First of all, he's not transgendered. Second of all, you're insulting transgendered people by making something like this up out of nowhere. I'm ashamed of you for this. Really, if you would stop stuff like this, you'd be okay.
17
Mc Kenna is a political right winger and very male, and the joke is silly in this context.
Get a clue Stranger - serious stuff here.
He is smart, articulate and the far right will fund him with all the $$$$$ he can use to win in Washington. Un told millions will flow. Again, serious stuff.
Myky
Get a clue Stranger - serious stuff here.
He is smart, articulate and the far right will fund him with all the $$$$$ he can use to win in Washington. Un told millions will flow. Again, serious stuff.
Myky
18
petty. yeah, rob is being a piece of shit fight healthcare reform. but now you're being a piece of shit too.
19
It's a joke, people.
Seriously, though, if McKenna isn't transgendered, he's definitely log cabin. Gayer than Gay McGaysworthy.
How do we impeach him?
Seriously, though, if McKenna isn't transgendered, he's definitely log cabin. Gayer than Gay McGaysworthy.
How do we impeach him?
21
There is a facebook group already filling up fast to challenge McKenna. I wonder what his children who attend Newport High School think of their father risking health care funding and access for thousands of Washington State residents. I am outraged by this and have demanded that my state senator and representatives open up a repeal process immediately. He joined this lawsuit without consulting with any other state leader in Washington. He Should be repealed and thrown out of office immediately.
Rob Killian, MD/MPH
Rob Killian, MD/MPH
22
@7, exactly!
50 years ago, you could insult men by calling them women. Now we wince when confronted with such casual misogyny. Here's hoping it doesn't take another 50 years for this kind of transphobia to become socially unacceptable.
50 years ago, you could insult men by calling them women. Now we wince when confronted with such casual misogyny. Here's hoping it doesn't take another 50 years for this kind of transphobia to become socially unacceptable.
23
Has it occurred to you that that's not the part of the bill that he objects to? This bill is unconstitutional, and if you paid attention to the reasons why a lot of Americans don't like it, you'll see it has nothing to do with not wanting everyone to have health care. It's about not wanting to be forced to pay for something that it should be you CHOICE to buy or not buy. Under this bill, if you are alive, you HAVE to buy health insurance. Tell me how that's fair.
25
Not cool, Dan. Making a joke like this about someone who really is FTM would be cruel.
Making a joke like this about someone who was born a man, and has a wife & kids, is grounds for being called out. As in, "would you like to step outside and see just how REAL a MAN I am?".
It's way over the line, and is a most personal slander, possibly actionable.
Making a joke like this about someone who was born a man, and has a wife & kids, is grounds for being called out. As in, "would you like to step outside and see just how REAL a MAN I am?".
It's way over the line, and is a most personal slander, possibly actionable.
26
If we can call McKenna transgendered than everytime we mention the pope we should call him the "Nazi Pedophile Pope". Though with the Pope it's actually the truth....
29
I don't, uh... Dan, I know this is a joke but I'm not really sure where you meant to go with it. It's kind of a low blow and kind of shitty to trans people.
30
Good morning, Dan!
Kindly impale yourself, please. You'll be reminded of this discussion the next time anyone, anywhere in Mediaworld™ pisses you off enough to blog about it when they derisively hammer/slander/mock/lampoon a fag. It's cheap to mock transsexuals when so many of them are highly invisible and unknown to their peers. Small wonder there's no way to mobilize effectively without being destroyed wholesale.
Dan, when it comes to transsexual folk, you never change. They make you squirm.
Transgendered people, on the other hand? They're part of your cissexual camp: you can keep 'em.
Kindly impale yourself, please. You'll be reminded of this discussion the next time anyone, anywhere in Mediaworld™ pisses you off enough to blog about it when they derisively hammer/slander/mock/lampoon a fag. It's cheap to mock transsexuals when so many of them are highly invisible and unknown to their peers. Small wonder there's no way to mobilize effectively without being destroyed wholesale.
Dan, when it comes to transsexual folk, you never change. They make you squirm.
Transgendered people, on the other hand? They're part of your cissexual camp: you can keep 'em.
31
What?! I know it's attempting to be a mean joke, but you're just being cruel to transgendered people, by calling him trangendered. On par with "McKenna's challenging healthcare legislation, that's so gay!" You're better than that Dan. Getting "Steve McKenna'd" is getting inebriated to the point of losing control of one's actions (Three Sheets reference:http://www.zanelamprey.com/projects/three_sheets/steve_mckenna.php). We need a definition of what getting Rob McKenna'd means.
34
I'm with @7. This is not cool. Dan's obvious bias against transsexuals has always saddened me, because he's been such a force for good for the GLB community.
@23: We're also all forced to pay into Medicare. I don't really see the difference, except that in Medicare the gov't acts as a middleman between us and the private sector.
@23: We're also all forced to pay into Medicare. I don't really see the difference, except that in Medicare the gov't acts as a middleman between us and the private sector.
35
Nice link.
Actually, the news the media don't like to give out, is that McKenna is really a transgendered ROBOT from Mexico.
Actually, the news the media don't like to give out, is that McKenna is really a transgendered ROBOT from Mexico.
39
Go here to file your complaint about McKenna lying to voters, his FTM status doesn't appear in any of his campaign literature.
http://www.atg.wa.gov/fileacomplaint.asp…
http://www.atg.wa.gov/fileacomplaint.asp…
40
I don't understand all the posts railing about this. How is saying Rob McKenna is a FTM transsexual offensive? And why would saying he is be a joke? If he is, then he is (and being married to a woman and having kids doesn't mean that he's not) and if not and Rob McKenna finds being called a FTM transsexual offensive and damaging then I'm sure he knows just how to take legal recourse.
41
@23, the government has the power to tax. You are forced to pay for Social Security. Medicare. Iraq War.
The constitution clearly authorizes Congress to levy taxes. There is no Amendment or provision in the constitution prohibiting Congress from doing this.
Also, Congress isn't forcing you to buy anything. You could chose not to have health insurance and pay higher taxes. Coercive, of course, but the government has used tax policy in this manner for decades.
The constitution clearly authorizes Congress to levy taxes. There is no Amendment or provision in the constitution prohibiting Congress from doing this.
Also, Congress isn't forcing you to buy anything. You could chose not to have health insurance and pay higher taxes. Coercive, of course, but the government has used tax policy in this manner for decades.
42
@40: It's like schoolkids calling each other "gay" as an insult, in my view. The very fact that someone thinks it's useful as an insult is offensive.
43
Supplement to @30:
Dan, it isn't that you're "so sorry" (sorry only that you got called out, nothing more — certainly not atonement). Rather, it's that your letting your guard down because you were in a rush to post your political frustrations elsewhere just underscored what I — and possibly others — long and already knew.
This is why someone like me or my peers — my transsexual peers, hi — will never find their way to the column page of any future issue in the Strangler.
We would, mind you, get there — or, really, much beyond there — not because of the background (and cheap) fact that we've transsexual life experiences behind us, but because we fucking rock the house in whatever our expertise and experience that we bring to the table. In fact, we might still rock the house and not have to say a thing until it's apparent we're indispensably needed and we control that fuck.
So Dan, get bent.
Dan, it isn't that you're "so sorry" (sorry only that you got called out, nothing more — certainly not atonement). Rather, it's that your letting your guard down because you were in a rush to post your political frustrations elsewhere just underscored what I — and possibly others — long and already knew.
This is why someone like me or my peers — my transsexual peers, hi — will never find their way to the column page of any future issue in the Strangler.
We would, mind you, get there — or, really, much beyond there — not because of the background (and cheap) fact that we've transsexual life experiences behind us, but because we fucking rock the house in whatever our expertise and experience that we bring to the table. In fact, we might still rock the house and not have to say a thing until it's apparent we're indispensably needed and we control that fuck.
So Dan, get bent.
44
Oh come on, most liberals are unhappy about the mandate as well. Its fucking stupid to make a mandate but not just make a damn single payer system with taxes, like Medicare but for everybody. Forcing a mandate just gives in to the private companies more than ever, which are the problem. Is this really the worst thing this guy could do?
45
@23
"Under this bill, if you are alive, you HAVE to buy health insurance."
Bullshit. Under this bill, if you don't buy health insurance, you pay a tax. This no more forces you to buy health insurance that tax credits for families force you to have children.
"Under this bill, if you are alive, you HAVE to buy health insurance."
Bullshit. Under this bill, if you don't buy health insurance, you pay a tax. This no more forces you to buy health insurance that tax credits for families force you to have children.
46
@40: Cause-effect that being transsexual is somehow negative, detrimental, liability, handicap, career-ending disaster, laughable, etc.
Think about it.
Think about it.
47
I find Dan amusing and his advice often good, but as a journalist he's pretty egregiously lacking. To make this kind of claim without any reference to any kind of source at all, even a bullshit cop-out reference like "an anonymous source", is just lame. Given his refusal to back down on this at all, I'm assuming he believes it to be true. But man, you've got to give the rest of us some reason to believe it also if you want us to take you seriously.
48
dan, you're a total jerk. insulting someone by calling them trans is f'ed up. it makes me sad that people think of you as a "gay activist."
50
@23: health care is not a choice. If you are born you will, at some point in your life, require the attention of health care workers. To help ensure that one group of people is not burdened with subsidizing the attention and care of others, we all must pay our fair share (based on our needs, income, etc.)
51
@44 - You think McKenna is doing this because he want's a single payer system? No, he's doing it to squash the entire thing.
53
Dan has said elsewhere that McKenna is an FTM. But, in all other instances, there's no substantiation, either. I can't find any other instances online of people saying this about McKenna, without tracing the comment back to Dan.
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/07/lade…
Dan, I'll ask again: what's your proof? Otherwise, this looks like slander.
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/07/lade…
Dan, I'll ask again: what's your proof? Otherwise, this looks like slander.
54
Dan looks at journalism/blogging as he does stage direction. He's a very talented director, and it spills into his other professions. He is blocking this scene, and he thinks casting McKenna as MTF transsexual makes it work - damn the truth, it's not in the script.
56
@30
Relax, you're taking yourself way too seriously. All Dan is implying here (accurately in my opinion) is that McKenna looks like a post-op f2m tranny.
Perhaps when your knee stops its involuntary jerking, you can reread the post and show us where exactly the insult is.
Relax, you're taking yourself way too seriously. All Dan is implying here (accurately in my opinion) is that McKenna looks like a post-op f2m tranny.
Perhaps when your knee stops its involuntary jerking, you can reread the post and show us where exactly the insult is.
57
@19 - you can't impeach him for this. Others could do so, but not we the voters.
We can however RECALL him.
We now, thanks to his actions, have standing to file a recall petition.
We can however RECALL him.
We now, thanks to his actions, have standing to file a recall petition.
59
wow. you've reverted to name calling. you must know that mckenna is right.
you can't refute the argument so you've gone the "we can handle this like adults. right mr poopy pants?" route.
that's just gay. only a faggot would revert to such childish name calling and substance-less arguing.
(see what i did there?)
and still, even though i support health care reform (gee, i sure wish obama and the dems had won the election. what? they did? then how'd we get stuck with this pile of bullshit?) no one has been able to explain how the individual mandate (the part mckenna is suing about) is constitutional...
you can't refute the argument so you've gone the "we can handle this like adults. right mr poopy pants?" route.
that's just gay. only a faggot would revert to such childish name calling and substance-less arguing.
(see what i did there?)
and still, even though i support health care reform (gee, i sure wish obama and the dems had won the election. what? they did? then how'd we get stuck with this pile of bullshit?) no one has been able to explain how the individual mandate (the part mckenna is suing about) is constitutional...
60
@2,
It depends on the state. Some states let transsexuals marry someone of their opposite gender. Some states only allow transsexuals to marry someone of their opposite biological sex. It's beyond fucked up how arbitrary it all is.
It depends on the state. Some states let transsexuals marry someone of their opposite gender. Some states only allow transsexuals to marry someone of their opposite biological sex. It's beyond fucked up how arbitrary it all is.
61
By the way, Dan, you should try sourcing your links with a little more reliability. Quoting the "Americans for Truth about Homosexuality" as a reference for "government-funded sex-change operations" is weak, even for you. No such provision in the United States presently exists.
In the past, a privately-insured individual has on rare occasion managed to get the insurer to reimburse that in part or en toto, but it's exceedingly uncommon and certainly not within the realm of transsexual citizens who are generally too young or early on in their working lives to be employed for a company that's wealthy and generous enough to provide them with a gold-star health plan that would do — knowingly or not — such a thing.
Instead, most have to scrape, whore, and set aside all life ventures to get this out of the way so they can get on with the rest of their lives as they'd originally planned.
(It's a slow day at work, in case you wonder.)
In the past, a privately-insured individual has on rare occasion managed to get the insurer to reimburse that in part or en toto, but it's exceedingly uncommon and certainly not within the realm of transsexual citizens who are generally too young or early on in their working lives to be employed for a company that's wealthy and generous enough to provide them with a gold-star health plan that would do — knowingly or not — such a thing.
Instead, most have to scrape, whore, and set aside all life ventures to get this out of the way so they can get on with the rest of their lives as they'd originally planned.
(It's a slow day at work, in case you wonder.)
62
Alright- Time for facts. Is McKenna gay? Or transgendered? Or not? Dan Savage probably should clarify what he knows and how he knows it, along with a retraction if his facts are not correct.
Really bad journalism going on here.
Really bad journalism going on here.
64
Here is the offensive part: "It's staggering that Rob McKenna, a female-to-male transsexual, is making it harder for other FTMs (and MTFs) to access the life savng sex-reassignment surgery that allowed Rob to become the man he is today. Rob had the resources to finance his own sex-reassigment surgery—presumably—but that doesn't excuse Rob's cruel disregard for his low-income transgendered brothers and sisters or his making common cause with anti-trans bigots in states like Virginia and Mississippi."
The insincerity and contempt just oozes off the screen in that segment. If Dan didn't loathe the AG so much today would he bother trying to tarnish his gender representation like this? Why not just call him a bitch, Dan? What other ways can you attempt to undermine his masculinity? Get him, Dan! Get him for looking like less of a man.
Instead of being insincerely remorseful, Dan could not be an asshole in the first place. Maybe he could put energy in - or at least give attention to - the passage of ENDA - the same kind of energy he directs toward the Mississippi prom girl.
The insincerity and contempt just oozes off the screen in that segment. If Dan didn't loathe the AG so much today would he bother trying to tarnish his gender representation like this? Why not just call him a bitch, Dan? What other ways can you attempt to undermine his masculinity? Get him, Dan! Get him for looking like less of a man.
Instead of being insincerely remorseful, Dan could not be an asshole in the first place. Maybe he could put energy in - or at least give attention to - the passage of ENDA - the same kind of energy he directs toward the Mississippi prom girl.
65
Dan, remember when you went through that whole ordeal where you claimed that one TV reporter blew goats, but had to delete all those diaries when their lawyers came a-knocking? Didn't you learn anything from that?
66
Dan, here I thought you were doing an "outing" along the lines of what you've recommended (rightly IMO) be done to closeted gay conservatives who promote an anti-gay agenda.... If Rob McKenna were actually transgendered, then yes, you'd be right to call him out in this way.
Except he isn't. He's just a conservative douche. And that makes you a douche, too.
Re-read your article and substitute "gay" for transgendered. Wouldn't you find the result objectionable? Seeing as gay isn't in how feminine a guy is, and implying so plays in to many years of fag jokes. The very fag jokes which you have suffered from and which you just dumped on FTMs instead.
For shame. You can do better.
Except he isn't. He's just a conservative douche. And that makes you a douche, too.
Re-read your article and substitute "gay" for transgendered. Wouldn't you find the result objectionable? Seeing as gay isn't in how feminine a guy is, and implying so plays in to many years of fag jokes. The very fag jokes which you have suffered from and which you just dumped on FTMs instead.
For shame. You can do better.
67
@ 64, I've read Dan's columns since '96 and his blog since '05. He is an asshole. That's just how he is. While it's frustrating at times like this - especially since he seems to be completely unable to express any remorse for the times he goes way over the line - it's the same assholishness that he uses so effectively as a LGBT spokesman. I've learned to live with it, but it's good to call him out on it when he does stuff like this.
68
Dan,
Offensive. Inappropriate. Tacky. I think maybe you should implement a new policy for your Slog postings and consider the ramifications of your content before you hit the "Submit Comment" button. I'm ashamed for you.
Offensive. Inappropriate. Tacky. I think maybe you should implement a new policy for your Slog postings and consider the ramifications of your content before you hit the "Submit Comment" button. I'm ashamed for you.
69
Also join the "Recall Rob McKenna" Facebook page, here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10…
70
come on people.... just beacuse someone is opposed to the health care reform doesnt mean that they agree with some or any of the homophobs comments or thoughts... it VERY WELL COULD BE that he is not in favor of govermentalizing health care or tax raising, etc.... i would imagine that he would be in favor for anything to help his community out but not necessarily at the risk of jeopardizing other things.
71
@56: I really didn't know there was a lock-in-step "look" for a transsexual man. Or, for that matter, a transsexual woman. Or, pardon me, "a post-op f2m tranny", as you diminutively put it.
Last I checked, no one seemed to say much of anything about the < href="http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/shannonminter.jpg">attorney who assiduously argued against Prop. 8 in court in 2009. He busted arse to find Prop. 8 unconstitutional and no one gave him credit for doing so even though he personally, in his own heterosexual life, had little to gain from it.
I think had Dan said (which he did not) that said Prop. 8 attorney was transsexual (which he is) in an auspicious context (unlike what was mockingly said of McKenna this morning), we would probably not be having this chat.
My knee and leg will stop voluntarily kicking when the time is right, seandr.
Last I checked, no one seemed to say much of anything about the < href="http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/shannonminter.jpg">attorney who assiduously argued against Prop. 8 in court in 2009. He busted arse to find Prop. 8 unconstitutional and no one gave him credit for doing so even though he personally, in his own heterosexual life, had little to gain from it.
I think had Dan said (which he did not) that said Prop. 8 attorney was transsexual (which he is) in an auspicious context (unlike what was mockingly said of McKenna this morning), we would probably not be having this chat.
My knee and leg will stop voluntarily kicking when the time is right, seandr.
72
Wow.
You know, I just remembered the reasons I avoided Dan and wasn't out as Trans when I used to work at the Stranger. Ouch, Dan. This REALLY SUCKS.
You know, I just remembered the reasons I avoided Dan and wasn't out as Trans when I used to work at the Stranger. Ouch, Dan. This REALLY SUCKS.
75
You are all missing the point. It's become pretty obvious in the last few years that facts DON'T MATTER. In a political argument these days, you can say ANYTHING and don't have to back it up, because there are two sides to every story, and if one of them is true and the other is utter batshittery, it DOESN'T MATTER. They are both equally valid.
Thanks, Republicans! This is going to be an awesome year for debate. And not just because each and every one of you is a child-raping scatophiliac retard, either.
Thanks, Republicans! This is going to be an awesome year for debate. And not just because each and every one of you is a child-raping scatophiliac retard, either.
77
There is NO truth to the rumor that McKenna blows goats.
I'm pretty sure s/he stopped that a long time ago.
I'm pretty sure s/he stopped that a long time ago.
78
Isn't McKenna dating Tim Eyman?
(Ewww, now that's an image I won't be able to get out of my head)
(Ewww, now that's an image I won't be able to get out of my head)
79
Oh, come on. All you dudes out there are really FTM transsexuals. Human default development is to female, after all, and it's only expression of Y-chromosome genes that turn you male, so...we're all female as embryos.
81
I find the whole transgender thing insulting to transgender people. It's like saying "that's so gay" as an insult. It's not a joke or an insult to be transgendered, dealing with all the prejudice, the last thing they need is taking more from gays.
82
Would I be lynched if I suggested that while I think this coalition of governors and attorneys general are filing this suit for all the wrong reasons (knee-jerk ideology, political grandstanding, general shitassery) I'm actually pretty unhappy about the passage of a bill that requires me to buy something from private companies that created the crisis that necessitated the bill in the first place, and I don't necessarily oppose the suit itself?
Isn't this mandate kinda like including a clause in the ADA that requires all Americans to lose an eye or a leg so we're all equally accommodated? I'm not a fan of being required to buy into a broken system and I don't intend to roast McKenna's balls - real or not - because he's opposing it.
Isn't this mandate kinda like including a clause in the ADA that requires all Americans to lose an eye or a leg so we're all equally accommodated? I'm not a fan of being required to buy into a broken system and I don't intend to roast McKenna's balls - real or not - because he's opposing it.
83
It has nothing to do with homophobia, or trans people. Jesus Christ, it's about the constitutionality of our government forcing individuals to buy health care. WTF people? Why is everything about the gay?
85
@83 - oh, come on, you think the tea baggers calling Congressmen racist names and spitting on them - mostly just the black ones - is about a "principled stand"?
LOL.
My, you're naive.
LOL.
My, you're naive.
86
and those of us who have lived in the South, especially Texas, know racist code words when we hear them.
Even if people up here don't.
Even if people up here don't.
87
I'd hate to see this particular thread, which is really about Dan's wholly inappropriate post, be derailed by discussion of health care issues.
89
@26. FYI: All Germans are not Nazis. All Germans who were born before 1945 are not Nazis. All Germans who lived through the war are not Nazis. All Germans who worked for the Nazi Reich were Nazis. Read about Bonhoeffer.
The Pope was born in Germany in a time when you legally had to join the Hitler Youth - or be ostracized or killed for subversion. Read about Sophie Scholl. Or Cato Bontjes van Beek. Or the Catholics Max Josef Metzger and Alois Grimm. Same with military service (that they were resorting to academics should show you the German Reich's desperation).
Read a book, get some insight, stop calling people Nazis, its silly, childish, and insults the memories of Germans who lived and died under the Nazis.
The Pope was born in Germany in a time when you legally had to join the Hitler Youth - or be ostracized or killed for subversion. Read about Sophie Scholl. Or Cato Bontjes van Beek. Or the Catholics Max Josef Metzger and Alois Grimm. Same with military service (that they were resorting to academics should show you the German Reich's desperation).
Read a book, get some insight, stop calling people Nazis, its silly, childish, and insults the memories of Germans who lived and died under the Nazis.
90
How is this 'joke' any less cruel to transgendered people that what Mississippi did to Constance?
91
Not sure about F>M, but perhaps Weird Science-era Anthony Michael Hall > ~ 1995 version Conan O' Brien (or his Finnish-President doppleganger minus 30 pounds)
92
@85 Sure there were a couple of assholes there, there are some in every bunch, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the law suits being filed against government health care discussion I thought we were having. I'm not sure where you pulled that one from or how it makes me naive, but if it makes you happy to think so, more power to you.
94
dan just wants those page hits, kids, 'cause it will pay for his next vacation in foreign climes. if you don't like what he writes, then don't comment. ad revenue will go way down and dan will have to stay home.
95
Dan, I bet when you were writing up this deliberately confusing mess that there was a little voice in your head going, "This is going to cause trouble -- and not the good kind." Learn to listen to that little voice.
97
People, Dan isn't joking. Apparently, McKenna really is a FTM trangender.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Attorne…
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Attorne…
98
But never reported like this. This is going to bite The Stranger and Dan as Editor big-time.
Dan, you are a bad, bad man.
Dan, you are a bad, bad man.
100
Please, please, let McKenna actually be a transexual... because in that case the post is completely serious and 90% of this thread involves hypersensitive idiots.
And that is the best joke of all.
*fingers crossed*
And that is the best joke of all.
*fingers crossed*
102
Dan did the same shit during the election and it wasn't funny then either. It's an insult to the entire trans community (you know, the "T" in LGBT). These baseless allegations with the intent of delegitimizing an elected official are the kinds of tactics employed by the right all the time. The fact that this particular allegation has an anti-gay slant to it (even if McKenna were trans, that wouldn't preclude him from serving as AG) makes it an even bigger slap in the face.
103
You know, I buy the argument that when someone (usually a Republican) spends their political career trying to deprive homosexuals of their rights and then is outed as gay, personal attacks are fair game. But... really, what has this guy done that deserves this? Disagree with you on policy/the law? I happen to think these lawsuits are ridiculous, but I don't think that gives me free reign to to go around making things up about his personal life (even as a joke). I would hope that, someday, if I ever hold elected office, the fact that someone disagrees with me (and there will always be people that disagree with you as a politician) doesn't mean it's acceptable for them to say I look like a man, or write a joke column about how I must be a lesbian.
I know, I know, you're a bad man, blah, blah, blah. Still... this one feels a bit over the line.
I know, I know, you're a bad man, blah, blah, blah. Still... this one feels a bit over the line.
104
I don't get this at all, Dan. If you feel the need to mock the AG's appearance, you'd think there's ample opportunity: his truly awful haircut, his nerdy and unattractive glasses, his creepily straight teeth. But what's with the back-handed trans-bashing?
107
Dick move, Dan.
No worse than "the GLBT movement has been hijacked by gay white men only concerned with marriage"/"we shouldn't spend money on your relationship" rhetoric... but waaaaaaaaaaay dickier.
Put down the Haterade.
No worse than "the GLBT movement has been hijacked by gay white men only concerned with marriage"/"we shouldn't spend money on your relationship" rhetoric... but waaaaaaaaaaay dickier.
Put down the Haterade.
108
You know, I never seen multiple, outraged comments full of righteous indignation when Ann Coulter is called a self-hating tranny man. I wonder why that is?
109
You queermo trannies need to find a sense of humor. You titty babies can go bitch and moan at the michigan womyn's muzak festival right before the granola games.
110
108
Because Ann is so seductively sultry smoking hot that not even a faggot like Dan could really mistake her for a tranny
Because Ann is so seductively sultry smoking hot that not even a faggot like Dan could really mistake her for a tranny
111
"All Germans who worked for the Nazi Reich were Nazis."
So you agree that the Pope's a nazi. THE END. Enough of your excuses..."oh, he had to join and kill all those jews" blah blah blah--no, Ratzinger killed all those jews because he hates jewish people. Especially jewish kids, as he killed a lot of jewish infants, too. It still doesn't explain why he murders a puppy each morning, though. Thoughts?
So you agree that the Pope's a nazi. THE END. Enough of your excuses..."oh, he had to join and kill all those jews" blah blah blah--no, Ratzinger killed all those jews because he hates jewish people. Especially jewish kids, as he killed a lot of jewish infants, too. It still doesn't explain why he murders a puppy each morning, though. Thoughts?
112
@108: Because it's the transsexual people (the rogue's gallery of those I know well, at least) who readily call Ann-the-Man Coulter a guy in a dress.
Coutler reminds us much of those fragile miads that head over to that other Anne-the-Man's joint up on Capitol Hill — that is, that Skeletor-looking fanny piddler, Anne Lawrence — and demand their rights as "new women" now that they've paid their way there, after the twenty-year career, after the kids, after the unsuspecting wife, and so on. You know, they make movies about tropes like this.
I don't expect you to have any idea what this means. You're out of the loop. But since you asked "why not Coulter" . . .
Coutler reminds us much of those fragile miads that head over to that other Anne-the-Man's joint up on Capitol Hill — that is, that Skeletor-looking fanny piddler, Anne Lawrence — and demand their rights as "new women" now that they've paid their way there, after the twenty-year career, after the kids, after the unsuspecting wife, and so on. You know, they make movies about tropes like this.
I don't expect you to have any idea what this means. You're out of the loop. But since you asked "why not Coulter" . . .
113
My first characterization of Dan Savage would not be as a civil rights activist, but I agree with the thoughts expressed at http://pamshouseblend.com/diary/15630/ho…. Awful post Dan.
114
This article is puerile bigotted trash. If a comment was this mean spirited to trans persons it would be flagged as abusive - pull this entire article on that basis.
116
Libel, not slander as some have suggested; and yes, I think this is probably an actionable defamation claim against you Dan, even taking into account that McKenna is a public figure. He's a good enough lawyer to prove that you have "actual malice" in publishing this, though sadly he's also a smart enough politician to avoid such a lawsuit--sadly, because for an asshole move like this you heartily deserve to be taken to the cleaners. Maybe ask yourself how many millions your family and/or your publication can afford to lose before you spread what you clearly mean to be a malicious lie?
118
McKenna is an Eagle Scout, so it's very doubtful that he's Trans unless he transitioned at age five Autumn.
This post is transphobic but it's not surprising since Dan has said some border-lie transphobic crap in the past, IIRC.
This post is transphobic but it's not surprising since Dan has said some border-lie transphobic crap in the past, IIRC.
119
From 2004: http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Conte…
This is a not-so-clever rehash of a rehash of a rehash of a rehash. The FTM reference is from at least the early 00s and is a not-so-subtle dig at McKenna's antagonism of the GLBT community and appears to be a slap-back against references he'd previously made back then. It really is no different from certain GLBT blogs dangling the "he's closeted" trope on certain politicians with no actual legitimate proof or reliable rumor whenever a pol does something anti-gay. It's one of those "yeah, well, you treat it like a slur so we'll turn it back on you".
And yet, still dickish. I guess that's why Dan gets so much attention.
Compare that to her Republican opponent, King County Council member Rob McKenna, who adheres to the Republican mantra that government is part of the problem rather than part of the solution. McKenna, a female-to-male transsexual, is the FTM community's own Mary Cheney. When will McKenna address the needs of the FTM community? We expect more from one of our own, "Robin."
This is a not-so-clever rehash of a rehash of a rehash of a rehash. The FTM reference is from at least the early 00s and is a not-so-subtle dig at McKenna's antagonism of the GLBT community and appears to be a slap-back against references he'd previously made back then. It really is no different from certain GLBT blogs dangling the "he's closeted" trope on certain politicians with no actual legitimate proof or reliable rumor whenever a pol does something anti-gay. It's one of those "yeah, well, you treat it like a slur so we'll turn it back on you".
And yet, still dickish. I guess that's why Dan gets so much attention.
120
Savage's transphobia is gallingly bad. I'd say he owes an apology for this one, but I doubt he's got the integrity to do that.
A truly hateful display.
A truly hateful display.
121
You're just disgustingly hateful, you know that? This is so far from funny. You're an embarassment to the gay community, Savage.
122
Dan Savage, you should know better than to sling "transgender" as an insult. What the hell is wrong with you!?
123
You're already catching hell for this, but eh, comments are allowed. As an FTM I read and enjoy your column, but I wish I didn't have to feel like I was betraying the trans community somehow by doing it, especially when you make posts like this.
124
@108: The Coulter comparisons are bad, too. Some people feel it's justified because of how dreadful Coulter is, but it's no less stupid than this. She's bad enough in and of herself - why make up bullshit about her.
Dan, I'm a long time fan, but this really sucks of you. I'm trying to see this as thoughtlessly catty about McKenna instead of intended to slight the transgendered/sexual, but I'm finding I'm having to squint a whole hell of a lot.
Dan, I'm a long time fan, but this really sucks of you. I'm trying to see this as thoughtlessly catty about McKenna instead of intended to slight the transgendered/sexual, but I'm finding I'm having to squint a whole hell of a lot.
125
We are disturbed by the lack of Respect in these comments.
Who let this registered trash in here?
Who let this registered trash in here?
126
So we either pay into the private sector (I thought all the insurance companies were big meanies!), or we pay the government. And we're still subsidizing the care and attention blah blah blah of other groups. So many more people are going to be on the public dime under this health care bill, so not only will we be paying outrageous amounts for our own care, but our taxes will also go up to pay for the care of others. And who's going to pay for the free preventative care for all? Oh yea, your taxes. Do you have any idea how many people who already have insurance are going to have to get different, more expensive policies because their current policies don't meet the criteria of this bill. You're all a bunch of fucking dipshits. The insurance companies are having the party of the century right now, because they're about to get so much more business, which means that many more people to fuck over and make money off of. Oh yea, you Democrats really stuck it to them, you showed them who's boss. Are you aware that more than 50% of the country doesn't want this bill? Our elected officials are in office to represent EVERYONE, not just the fucktards that voted for them. I wonder what bribes and threats were thrown around in order to get the votes needed to pass this. Obama himself said he'd rather pass this than have a second term...in other words, he doesn't care that most of the country doesn't want it. He's an elitist asshole, just like the rest of you Democrats, and thinks that he knows what's best for everyone else. NEWS FLASH: you don't know what's best for me!
128
Dan - why would you think it's an insult to say that someone is trans? "So sorry"? You have a lot of work to do on this one, Dan. Start by educating yourself, then try to develop some empathy. It's a hard life being trans, Dan, but it's nothing to be ashamed of. How deeply disappointing that you need this pointed out to you.
Post #79 - wrong: a female is not simply someone who failed to develop as a male; we're not all female as embryos. Very early on, fetuses have two sets of proto-plumbing. Development is then influenced by the interactions among multiple genes, only some of which are on the sex chromosomes.
Post #79 - wrong: a female is not simply someone who failed to develop as a male; we're not all female as embryos. Very early on, fetuses have two sets of proto-plumbing. Development is then influenced by the interactions among multiple genes, only some of which are on the sex chromosomes.
129
I listened to Dan waaaay back in the Dan and loved the show. Until a few years ago, I still enjoyed listening to/reading Dan as long as he kept his trap shut about trans people. Now I prefer to abstain altogether and this is a perfect example of why that is.
It's really simple, Dan: if you don't understand something, keep quiet until you've made *some* attempt to educate yourself. You've had many, many years of people calling you on your transphobic bullshit yet you persist. At this point, you've had every opportunity to rid yourself of the label "ignorant." Now you can proudly hang the "bigot" sign over your desk. Congrats!
It's really simple, Dan: if you don't understand something, keep quiet until you've made *some* attempt to educate yourself. You've had many, many years of people calling you on your transphobic bullshit yet you persist. At this point, you've had every opportunity to rid yourself of the label "ignorant." Now you can proudly hang the "bigot" sign over your desk. Congrats!
130
o.k. so this is a side comment- but you sound a wee bit snotty when you say... "joining with the attorneys general of states like Virginia (!) and Mississippi (!)."
Both of these states are very different from each other- not at all similar. It also infers that Washington is something oh so different, progressive, special. Please. Obviously not. Sorry to burst your little bubble- believe it or not other places beyond these emerald shores have pleasant communities also.If your reporting news, even if just a blog, might want to learn impartiality. But then this really is just a slop editorial.
On another note: McKenna's lawsuit is a joke.
Both of these states are very different from each other- not at all similar. It also infers that Washington is something oh so different, progressive, special. Please. Obviously not. Sorry to burst your little bubble- believe it or not other places beyond these emerald shores have pleasant communities also.If your reporting news, even if just a blog, might want to learn impartiality. But then this really is just a slop editorial.
On another note: McKenna's lawsuit is a joke.
133
Dear, me. This seems to be a topic that desperately needs to give birth to one thing or another: either the political point dear ol' Dan is trying to make (albeit clumsily) or the issue of whether Danny Boy is a transphobic A-hole.
Hmm. Mebbe we oughta pick one and stick to it? No? (sigh) Okay. One after another then. Logic tree? Yes, let's do that. Attendez, y'all!
IF: The WA State AG is in fact FTM...
THEN: Dan's comment, although snide, is perfectly valid
BUT: There appears to no validity to that position. (caveat: I couldn't follow the link in post #97. Someone please post a link indicating some veracity to this statement.)
THEREFORE: The comparison/analogy/metaphor/allegory/WTF is quite simply; bad writing. Poor journalism. Crappy reporting. You get an F on that one, Danny Boy.
(Being trans and having read your snide trans comments in the past, I felt a slight echo of temptation to take this personally and reduce you to radioactive vapor, Danny m'boy, but others are doing such a fine job in this regard, I felt it was unnecessary. Why bring a blowtorch to a barbecue? No, don't stick a fork in him yet, he's not quite done.)
Regarding the political aspect of his post (which was his original, if somewhat inarticulate intent, I think), we can proceed thus:
IF: The WA State AG (and other State AG's of Republican origin) are in fact douchebags for attempting to block the Health Care reform bill...
THEN: It's perfectly okay to use the same tactics and strategy that the Republicans have used on us to such great effect in the past, i.e.; slurs, libelous comments, outrageous claims and outright untruths.
FIRST COROLLARY: It's equally okay for all to use those tactics as well. All's fair in love, war, politics, business, etc, ad nauseum. Right?
BUT: No, actually it's not. To quote Harlan Ellison: "You lie down with pigs, you get up smelling like garbage." Personally, I don't want that kind of stink on me. It's harder to be better, smarter and faster than the opposition which is why most people opt for name-calling and behavior that should have been left behind in grade school. Easier to resort to flipping someone off and calling them a Nazi. Easier to ignore the fact that the other person is a human being, even if tragically wrong-headed.
THEREFORE: You fail on both accounts, Danny Boy. You failed to make a salient point and you failed to separate your transphobia from your intent. F on that one, too.
CONCLUSION: Dan Savage is not only a pretty bad journalist and political pundit (sorry, but you're right: writing the post in a hurry IS no excuse. Next time, do your homework earlier.), he's also a transphobic A-hole.
BUT: this is not news. Not to most of us here. He's left a permanent record establishing that point rather well, I think. (Pity. Your past work is going to bite you rather hard, dear boy. I hope you've laid in a supply of Neosporin. You're going to need it.)
Therefore (and it's a lowercase 'therefore' so it's personal, okay?), I can only say this:
You do not speak for me, Dan Savage. You do not speak for my community. You do not speak truth. You do not speak courteously. You do not speak with intelligence. Therefore, you should be ignored as much as possible, bully pulpit notwithstanding.
(sigh) To think that you should be considered an ally distresses me greatly. I'd as soon bunk with a pit viper.
Michelle Diane Rose
Trans woman
More...
Hmm. Mebbe we oughta pick one and stick to it? No? (sigh) Okay. One after another then. Logic tree? Yes, let's do that. Attendez, y'all!
IF: The WA State AG is in fact FTM...
THEN: Dan's comment, although snide, is perfectly valid
BUT: There appears to no validity to that position. (caveat: I couldn't follow the link in post #97. Someone please post a link indicating some veracity to this statement.)
THEREFORE: The comparison/analogy/metaphor/allegory/WTF is quite simply; bad writing. Poor journalism. Crappy reporting. You get an F on that one, Danny Boy.
(Being trans and having read your snide trans comments in the past, I felt a slight echo of temptation to take this personally and reduce you to radioactive vapor, Danny m'boy, but others are doing such a fine job in this regard, I felt it was unnecessary. Why bring a blowtorch to a barbecue? No, don't stick a fork in him yet, he's not quite done.)
Regarding the political aspect of his post (which was his original, if somewhat inarticulate intent, I think), we can proceed thus:
IF: The WA State AG (and other State AG's of Republican origin) are in fact douchebags for attempting to block the Health Care reform bill...
THEN: It's perfectly okay to use the same tactics and strategy that the Republicans have used on us to such great effect in the past, i.e.; slurs, libelous comments, outrageous claims and outright untruths.
FIRST COROLLARY: It's equally okay for all to use those tactics as well. All's fair in love, war, politics, business, etc, ad nauseum. Right?
BUT: No, actually it's not. To quote Harlan Ellison: "You lie down with pigs, you get up smelling like garbage." Personally, I don't want that kind of stink on me. It's harder to be better, smarter and faster than the opposition which is why most people opt for name-calling and behavior that should have been left behind in grade school. Easier to resort to flipping someone off and calling them a Nazi. Easier to ignore the fact that the other person is a human being, even if tragically wrong-headed.
THEREFORE: You fail on both accounts, Danny Boy. You failed to make a salient point and you failed to separate your transphobia from your intent. F on that one, too.
CONCLUSION: Dan Savage is not only a pretty bad journalist and political pundit (sorry, but you're right: writing the post in a hurry IS no excuse. Next time, do your homework earlier.), he's also a transphobic A-hole.
BUT: this is not news. Not to most of us here. He's left a permanent record establishing that point rather well, I think. (Pity. Your past work is going to bite you rather hard, dear boy. I hope you've laid in a supply of Neosporin. You're going to need it.)
Therefore (and it's a lowercase 'therefore' so it's personal, okay?), I can only say this:
You do not speak for me, Dan Savage. You do not speak for my community. You do not speak truth. You do not speak courteously. You do not speak with intelligence. Therefore, you should be ignored as much as possible, bully pulpit notwithstanding.
(sigh) To think that you should be considered an ally distresses me greatly. I'd as soon bunk with a pit viper.
Michelle Diane Rose
Trans woman
135
This is hardly hate speech.
If McKenna is transgender, then Dan in pointing out hypocrisy.
If McKenna is not transgender, then Dan has his facts wrong and he looks silly.
I really don't see how Dan's post is offensive. He doesn't call McKenna trans in a pejorative way. No swearing or mockery or anything. Dan's not a subtle writer. There's no subtext here.
If McKenna is transgender, then Dan in pointing out hypocrisy.
If McKenna is not transgender, then Dan has his facts wrong and he looks silly.
I really don't see how Dan's post is offensive. He doesn't call McKenna trans in a pejorative way. No swearing or mockery or anything. Dan's not a subtle writer. There's no subtext here.
136
@124: I'm not sure the Coulter comparisons are bad. They are not--at their core--insults to transgendered people. Insulting trans people is not the intent. As I'm sure you already know, the intent is to insult Coulter as strongly as possible, and calling her a "man in a dress" is, indeed, quite a good and affective insult to her, considering how much time and effort she clearly puts into her appearance.
And there's never any outrage when it happens. No wagging of fingers or lamenting of transphobia. Not from gays, not from lesbians, not from transgendered people. Everyone laughs. Is this because Coulter is loathsome? It could be, but McKenna seems pretty loathsome too. I don't live in Washington, but this guy is using his political clout to sue over the health care bill. He may not be as vocal as Coulter, but I'll bet he's a fan. I'll bet he watches her, nods to what she says, votes the way she votes.
So . . . I don't know. Your feelings aside, it seems as if it's perfectly acceptable to joke about a nasty, hateful, powerless termagant being a trans woman, but it's beyond the pale to joke about a--by all accounts--hateful, powerful, attorney general being a trans man.
Is it simply because it's Dan who's doing the joking?
And there's never any outrage when it happens. No wagging of fingers or lamenting of transphobia. Not from gays, not from lesbians, not from transgendered people. Everyone laughs. Is this because Coulter is loathsome? It could be, but McKenna seems pretty loathsome too. I don't live in Washington, but this guy is using his political clout to sue over the health care bill. He may not be as vocal as Coulter, but I'll bet he's a fan. I'll bet he watches her, nods to what she says, votes the way she votes.
So . . . I don't know. Your feelings aside, it seems as if it's perfectly acceptable to joke about a nasty, hateful, powerless termagant being a trans woman, but it's beyond the pale to joke about a--by all accounts--hateful, powerful, attorney general being a trans man.
Is it simply because it's Dan who's doing the joking?
137
136, just about every trans person I know is critical of the Ann Coulter shit. There are several blog posts out there about it if you go looking. So fucking speak for yourself re: "everyone laughs." I don't think it's fucking funny at all and neither is this.
138
actually Dan it was gays/lesbians that got trans people included in the DSM even as you extracted yourselves and it was lesbian feminists that got the US government to deny government assisted healthcare to trans women that the private sector followed by adding government exclusions. This led to, by some counts, tens of thousands of trans people dying from everything from breast cancer to whatever they could find reasons for denial. Funny stuff Dan. Your ongoing transphobia continues to marginalize others. hatred, arrogance, and marginalization. That will be YOUR legacy.
140
Ahhh, remember when GLAAD called Dan anti-gay for saying "fag" and using the lives of gay men as insults? Oh wait, they still do. And if GLAAD's not harming Dan's social calendar...
These internecine battles are delightful. It reiterates reason to call out the stupidity of insults because, time and again, folks just prove how easily they're insulted and felled by fucking words. We seem to be stuck in this position where the young activists, fighting for their own popularity, wait to pounce with things like "WHITE GAY MALE PRIVILEGE" or "DAN IS A MEMBER OF NAMBLA", a stunning lack of self-awareness that seems to do its own work at keeping people locked in permanent-insult.
Oh well.
These internecine battles are delightful. It reiterates reason to call out the stupidity of insults because, time and again, folks just prove how easily they're insulted and felled by fucking words. We seem to be stuck in this position where the young activists, fighting for their own popularity, wait to pounce with things like "WHITE GAY MALE PRIVILEGE" or "DAN IS A MEMBER OF NAMBLA", a stunning lack of self-awareness that seems to do its own work at keeping people locked in permanent-insult.
Oh well.
141
@108 If you didn't hear trans women complaining about the Ann Coulter transphobes you are just not listening. I don't know who your trans friends are who told you it was okay, but the overwhelming response to those comments has always been outrage.
Dan, this piece is transphobia and your digging in of heels to maintain the offense shows just how little of an ally you are to anyone who isn't white and male. Beyond being gay you're looking a lot like any other transphobic a**hole I know.
Dan, this piece is transphobia and your digging in of heels to maintain the offense shows just how little of an ally you are to anyone who isn't white and male. Beyond being gay you're looking a lot like any other transphobic a**hole I know.
142
@136 - the Ann Coulter stuff is problematic for the very reasons you cite. They are *at their core* insults to trans women.
Dan - given the ample opportunities you have been given over the years by trans folks to learn something - anything really, I'm left with the feeling that you either don't care, are stupid, or have an agenda (probably all three). Trans lives are not insults. Trans lives are not bargaining chips. Trans lives are not padding for the G&L "movement".
Dan - given the ample opportunities you have been given over the years by trans folks to learn something - anything really, I'm left with the feeling that you either don't care, are stupid, or have an agenda (probably all three). Trans lives are not insults. Trans lives are not bargaining chips. Trans lives are not padding for the G&L "movement".
144
Damn, so much anger from the trans community. Then again, that's nothing new. What's wrong, trannies? Forgot to take your estrogen? Your vaginal stint bugging you? Bad day in the electrolysis chair?
145
@144 Wow, really? So much hate? Do you not get the connection between your hate of a marginalized group and the hate people have for you because you're gay? It isn't hard, and it is tragic to see so many gay men so glad to spew transphobia online when these criticisms come up.
146
One would think that Seattle was a hotbed of anti-trans sentiment, based on the reaction to this blog post.
149
Really, Baconcat? You think this post is an acceptable form of humour given the position of trans people at this moment? You think it's appropriate to criticize someone's actions by attacking their gender or sexual orientation? If nothing else, surely you admit it's a low, cheap form of humour and an incredibly ineffective method of making a point.
151
@141: No, I've never heard anyone, trans or not, express insult to the Coulter joke. And I don't think it's because I'm not listening.
153
I will never take living in Seattle for granted, EVER.
I love you Emerald City, even though you're dickish to the homeless.
I love you Emerald City, even though you're dickish to the homeless.
154
@147: it's only bad if the insult directly affects Dan Savage, dontcha know? Otherwise, it's just "radikewl" and "edgy" to be a bigoted asswipe in his book.
155
Wow, major fuck-up. You need to delete this post and post an apology in its place. As a straight white male who has read your column for years, I've admired your tolerance and level-headedness. This is the first time I've ever had to doubt your sincerity.
156
As a sort of de facto resident transsexual on Slog (lest that sell me short), I know Baconcat is straight-up sincere. Lay off him already.
Also, today is Wednesday. Dan's fuck-up was on Tuesday. He's a loserish twat, and when he stares at the mirror in some hotel room when he's running about, he knows it when his ageing face* stares back at him. He got called out, so today, Wednesday, I'm more interested with other affairs now.
The rest of you reactionary-come-latelys who don't frequent Slog, now beating a dead horse (that's unable to come anymore, btw), can take this up with one another in Blogville and bitch about it with boycott or online protest. There are other, more substantial battles to fight.
When Dan speaks like a cunt again, he'll get called out again. Don't expect it to change the world, though.
* Go put on some Aluminum Group, Dan. The Navin brothers were there first. They're quite reassuring.
Also, today is Wednesday. Dan's fuck-up was on Tuesday. He's a loserish twat, and when he stares at the mirror in some hotel room when he's running about, he knows it when his ageing face* stares back at him. He got called out, so today, Wednesday, I'm more interested with other affairs now.
The rest of you reactionary-come-latelys who don't frequent Slog, now beating a dead horse (that's unable to come anymore, btw), can take this up with one another in Blogville and bitch about it with boycott or online protest. There are other, more substantial battles to fight.
When Dan speaks like a cunt again, he'll get called out again. Don't expect it to change the world, though.
* Go put on some Aluminum Group, Dan. The Navin brothers were there first. They're quite reassuring.
158
@157: No, you first. Explain to me where you gathered those assumptions in the first place because I can't for the life of me figure out what stupid tack you're taking.
159
How about "One would think that Seattle was a hotbed of anti-trans sentiment, based on the reaction to this blog post" for a start.
160
Or how about "These internecine battles are delightful. It reiterates reason to call out the stupidity of insults because, time and again, folks just prove how easily they're insulted and felled by fucking words."
161
Congratulations. Instead of making whatever point you intended to about the need to call out politicians on their Health Care positions, you've made your "joke" a distraction and given the idiots fodder for the rest of week to say, "don't call me a homophobe, look what Dan Savage did."
You can fix it by blogging a plain old apology that shows your understanding of why you were wrong to use this approach.
You can fix it by blogging a plain old apology that shows your understanding of why you were wrong to use this approach.
162
That was a real shit head move Dan. Not because being trans is an insult, but because being trans is the butt of this joke.
You already know all the other shit I want to say. And that fact makes me even more frustrated. You KNOW Dan. You fucking know.
You already know all the other shit I want to say. And that fact makes me even more frustrated. You KNOW Dan. You fucking know.
163
The reason these state are suing isn't because of politics - some of the Attorneys General are, in fact, Democrats - it is because they realize that the unfunded mandates handed down in the bill will further worsen an already dire financial situation.
Who cares if the guy is gay, straight, or married to a donkey - he's doing what he thinks is best for his state.
Who cares if the guy is gay, straight, or married to a donkey - he's doing what he thinks is best for his state.
164
@159: Since you went there . . .
As Dan is to most one prominent face of Seattle — in a sense, a Seattle ambassador — one might indeed believe that if they have never been to or lived in Seattle. It doesn't just end there. There is anti-transsexual sentiment in Seattle — and often from people you'd never think would be culpable, either. Consequently, there's a veritable population of transsexual people living in and around Seattle whose faces are never seen — not seen as transsexual, that is — and whose social placement is, in perpetuity, treated as non-transsexual. This is, for most, a non-negotiable.
There are two consequences from this climate: they're not out, because to be out in Seattle means something else entirely, and that something else, something very common there, is very easy to poke fun at. And second, when they must come out (e.g., any time one must settle on a family care provider) or if outed, doors can, have, and do slam shut the moment a person who doesn't remotely appear transsexual (let's call it the privilege of being seen as cissexual) is "discovered" to be so. Because Seattle is a tranny ghetto — a wetter version of San Francisco, a less dirty version of Boston — Seattleites have heightened awarenesses of transgender people. This sounds like a good thing, but it actually makes it harder for a lot of invisible transsexual people to go about with their life without it blowing up in their faces. It's a minefield few ever see, really.
Once coming out as non-cissexual no longer blows up in one's face, then it will be a different Seattle — a Seattle that currently does not exist. Dan's presence in Seattle is merely a figurehead for this unpleasant fact.
As Dan is to most one prominent face of Seattle — in a sense, a Seattle ambassador — one might indeed believe that if they have never been to or lived in Seattle. It doesn't just end there. There is anti-transsexual sentiment in Seattle — and often from people you'd never think would be culpable, either. Consequently, there's a veritable population of transsexual people living in and around Seattle whose faces are never seen — not seen as transsexual, that is — and whose social placement is, in perpetuity, treated as non-transsexual. This is, for most, a non-negotiable.
There are two consequences from this climate: they're not out, because to be out in Seattle means something else entirely, and that something else, something very common there, is very easy to poke fun at. And second, when they must come out (e.g., any time one must settle on a family care provider) or if outed, doors can, have, and do slam shut the moment a person who doesn't remotely appear transsexual (let's call it the privilege of being seen as cissexual) is "discovered" to be so. Because Seattle is a tranny ghetto — a wetter version of San Francisco, a less dirty version of Boston — Seattleites have heightened awarenesses of transgender people. This sounds like a good thing, but it actually makes it harder for a lot of invisible transsexual people to go about with their life without it blowing up in their faces. It's a minefield few ever see, really.
Once coming out as non-cissexual no longer blows up in one's face, then it will be a different Seattle — a Seattle that currently does not exist. Dan's presence in Seattle is merely a figurehead for this unpleasant fact.
165
Dan is bitter.
He would like to be a woman
but when he dresses the part
he is so fucking hideously ugly
that he scares himself.
It's killing him inside.
He would like to be a woman
but when he dresses the part
he is so fucking hideously ugly
that he scares himself.
It's killing him inside.
168
C'mon people, it's obvious that Rob McKenna isn't trans. He's not particularly handsome, but he''s not ugly. With the exception of a few high-profile figures, trans people are physically unattractive.
169
167
don't forget to thank Dan popularizing Fag, Faggot, Faggotry, Faggy, Faggish, Faggier, Faggiest, Faggogagger, Faggoriffic, Faggorama, Faggonopoly, Faggolishious, Faggly, Faggusting, Faggilly....
don't forget to thank Dan popularizing Fag, Faggot, Faggotry, Faggy, Faggish, Faggier, Faggiest, Faggogagger, Faggoriffic, Faggorama, Faggonopoly, Faggolishious, Faggly, Faggusting, Faggilly....
170
Actually, Uji, I'm plain as hell. Not pretty, not ugly, just boring. I fit right in in Lynnwood, except without the 12 layers of makeup most of the fair maidens of said city wear.
Hate to shatter your illusion, but I'm no "high-profile figure." I'm not important, I'm not special, and I walk amongst y'all every day.
I'm what Dan Savage shits his cowardly little misogynist, transphobic pants over, which is pretty hilarious since I'm a harmless, meek little girl with a little voice. I make your coffee somewhere in this city, but I spit in yours, Dan. You drank tranny spit.
Hate to shatter your illusion, but I'm no "high-profile figure." I'm not important, I'm not special, and I walk amongst y'all every day.
I'm what Dan Savage shits his cowardly little misogynist, transphobic pants over, which is pretty hilarious since I'm a harmless, meek little girl with a little voice. I make your coffee somewhere in this city, but I spit in yours, Dan. You drank tranny spit.
171
This was just dumb. Even if you think it's funny to say a cis person looks trans, don't you know the backlash against that kind of joke will totally obscure the point you were trying to make?
172
@168: Uji, you vet my case in @164 precisely. @170 underscores this with clarity.
The case? The invisible of us are unintentionally and incidentally so. We remain so for a reason.
The case? The invisible of us are unintentionally and incidentally so. We remain so for a reason.
173
@160: I think that particular comment was painfully obvious in what it was referencing, but if it wasn't, I'll give you a hint: it's possible to be the wrong kind of gay male, transwoman, bisexual cisgendered feminist, etcetera, for purely superficial reasons.
174
This outrage has made me really curious since I honestly do no see any trans bias with Dan's post above. I've followed the Slog for a few years. But that has nothing to do with what Dan wrote here.
Here's where I think there's been a great misunderstanding by the readers:
according to critics on the right, will one day pay for "gruesome 'sex change' operations"—indeed some transsexuals are already getting government-funded sex-change operations.
"gruesome sex change" are highlighted to show a link to the a right wing homo and transphobe website.
If Dan is not quoting directly from the source, if they don't actually say gruesome... it's sort of implied that he's paraphrasing what they say about people who have a sex change.
Here's where I think there's been a great misunderstanding by the readers:
according to critics on the right, will one day pay for "gruesome 'sex change' operations"—indeed some transsexuals are already getting government-funded sex-change operations.
"gruesome sex change" are highlighted to show a link to the a right wing homo and transphobe website.
If Dan is not quoting directly from the source, if they don't actually say gruesome... it's sort of implied that he's paraphrasing what they say about people who have a sex change.
176
@175 Oh, go ahead and call for us to be herded into fucking ovens already. If you support Dan and by extension his obsessive hatred so blindly, you're standing with what he wants.
177
Haha, I think it is hilarious. Some people need to find their sense of humor. I shared this on Facebook. Thanks Dan!
178
Seconds ago, caller on AM1090 called the Norman Goldman show and wanted to talk about FTM AG, Rob McKenna. This is gaining Santorum like traction.
179
Dan, this isn't funny, not any more than it would be funny if a straight blogger wrote about how a right-winger looks gay--or if he decided to smear a right-winger by spreading rumors about how he's actually gay, so that all his homophobic constituents would invade his privacy and run him out of town. Trans people don't all look alike. They don't look more masculine, feminine, or androgynous than cis people. They don't look ugly or ridiculous. Those beliefs are transphobic: they make life harder for trans people, and they make hatred of trans people more acceptable. Real trans people are fucked over by these beliefs and this behavior on a daily basis. It's a career-long struggle for the real trans politicians out there. It's pointless and offensive to insult this man this way.
That is, of course, until I brought it up yesterday.
That's not true, Jade. You're not reading enough trans-authored and trans-inclusive blogs. Just so you know, it's not only Ann, either--"you're so ugly you could be trans" is a really popular theme in insults. Trans people can barely keep up with the transphobia!
I've written about the problem; my trans bloggy friends have written about the problem; we all show up to bitch whenever someone as clueless as Dan makes one of those oh-so-common Mann Coulter jokes.
Here's one example. PHB is a very popular LGBT-rights blog:
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/1471…
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/2214…
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/tag/transp…
And here's Shakesville, another popular feminist/LGBT-friendly/progressive blog:
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2…
Google can find you more.
Dan is getting a lot of attention because a lot of people like him, and because he does this a lot. He talks about trans people the way he used to talk about vaginas: as though they were disgusting. The "dropped from a great height" comments were sexist; these comments are transphobic.
More...
That is, of course, until I brought it up yesterday.
That's not true, Jade. You're not reading enough trans-authored and trans-inclusive blogs. Just so you know, it's not only Ann, either--"you're so ugly you could be trans" is a really popular theme in insults. Trans people can barely keep up with the transphobia!
I've written about the problem; my trans bloggy friends have written about the problem; we all show up to bitch whenever someone as clueless as Dan makes one of those oh-so-common Mann Coulter jokes.
Here's one example. PHB is a very popular LGBT-rights blog:
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/1471…
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/2214…
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/tag/transp…
And here's Shakesville, another popular feminist/LGBT-friendly/progressive blog:
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2…
Google can find you more.
Dan is getting a lot of attention because a lot of people like him, and because he does this a lot. He talks about trans people the way he used to talk about vaginas: as though they were disgusting. The "dropped from a great height" comments were sexist; these comments are transphobic.
180
I guess some serious stealth-editing must have gone on here. Just what the heck did Dan say to get y'all so riled up?
183
Dan,
This was very funny. I think you already know that it is pointless to try to assuage the humorless and unbalanced PC crowd. If you started doing that, you would lose your cachet as a sex columnist.
Many of the comments above and on other blogs come from about 10-15 obsessed so-called "trans" activists, posting under various names, who feel it is their right and privilege to tell everyone else how to think and speak. These are hideous people in every sense of the word and it is a travesty that the gay movement ever thought it was a bright idea to attach itself to them. They have more in common with teabaggers, militia nuts, and freepers than they do with gay people.
Don't give them a moment's thought. Keep on jokin'.
This was very funny. I think you already know that it is pointless to try to assuage the humorless and unbalanced PC crowd. If you started doing that, you would lose your cachet as a sex columnist.
Many of the comments above and on other blogs come from about 10-15 obsessed so-called "trans" activists, posting under various names, who feel it is their right and privilege to tell everyone else how to think and speak. These are hideous people in every sense of the word and it is a travesty that the gay movement ever thought it was a bright idea to attach itself to them. They have more in common with teabaggers, militia nuts, and freepers than they do with gay people.
Don't give them a moment's thought. Keep on jokin'.
184
@"Savage hates your vagina":
Almost everything in your comment, including your online name, is deranged. Please seek professional help. Also, it is not a good idea to make written threats to commit illegal acts.
Finally, you said:
"I'm what Dan Savage shits his cowardly little misogynist, transphobic pants over, which is pretty hilarious since I'm a harmless, meek little girl with a little voice."
Interestingly, the more one gets to know MTF trans activists, the more apparent it becomes that you are not really meek "girls" after all. You talk and act like - men. I give respect to whatever anyone identifies as, but that respect does not override reality. You talk and act like a male street thug. You threaten and bully and bluster like the best of them. You can put on makeup and dresses to alter your appearance, but in your heart and in your actions, you are still a macho bruiser.
Almost everything in your comment, including your online name, is deranged. Please seek professional help. Also, it is not a good idea to make written threats to commit illegal acts.
Finally, you said:
"I'm what Dan Savage shits his cowardly little misogynist, transphobic pants over, which is pretty hilarious since I'm a harmless, meek little girl with a little voice."
Interestingly, the more one gets to know MTF trans activists, the more apparent it becomes that you are not really meek "girls" after all. You talk and act like - men. I give respect to whatever anyone identifies as, but that respect does not override reality. You talk and act like a male street thug. You threaten and bully and bluster like the best of them. You can put on makeup and dresses to alter your appearance, but in your heart and in your actions, you are still a macho bruiser.
185
@184: Wow, just wow. I'd be the smallest, wussiest male street thug ever. (You know, since Rob McKenna has like 4" of height on me and I weigh 120 soaking wet. I might be a great 12-year-old boy, though!) I can't "talk like" a man if I try. I can count all the times I've worn makeup on my left hand. (It has five fingers. I might be from Richland, but I'm not that fucked up.) I would sooner suck Dan Savage's cock than wear a dress, and given that I'm a lesbian in a committed relationship, that would definitely piss off my big bad butch girlfriend, who is much more of a "macho bruiser" than I am even though her vagina came free when she was born.
You're talking to the wrong trans women. You're looking at visible, angry loudmouths. You're not seeing the forest for the trees, and your hatred and bullshit, just like Dan's, is why we have to be silent. If you want to hear about why I'm so meek, we can talk about what it's like to be a lesbian at Richland High, or the middle child in a family of 7, or always wondering if today's going to be the day that someone splits my damn skull open because they're that motivated by hating trans people.
Activist? Hardly.
You're talking to the wrong trans women. You're looking at visible, angry loudmouths. You're not seeing the forest for the trees, and your hatred and bullshit, just like Dan's, is why we have to be silent. If you want to hear about why I'm so meek, we can talk about what it's like to be a lesbian at Richland High, or the middle child in a family of 7, or always wondering if today's going to be the day that someone splits my damn skull open because they're that motivated by hating trans people.
Activist? Hardly.
187
Ok. Either you know something none of us do and are just refusing to share proof, or this is really screwed up. I am less angry that just kind of horrified and let down. Like, did you really write this? And did you really make a joke out of how many people in your own community you hurt by writing this? Yes, I know you do the whole "im an asshole with an opinion and i dont care what you say" shtick, but... come on. This is weak and so so so disappointing.
188
One, McKenna would have had to transitioned at about the age of six to be an Eagle Scout.
Two, this is, just another in your long littany of trans-erasing, bullshittery. Fuck you Dan.
Two, this is, just another in your long littany of trans-erasing, bullshittery. Fuck you Dan.
190
"Interestingly, the more one gets to know MTF trans activists, the more apparent it becomes that you are not really meek "girls" after all. You talk and act like - men. I give respect to whatever anyone identifies as, but that respect does not override reality. You talk and act like a male street thug. You threaten and bully and bluster like the best of them. You can put on makeup and dresses to alter your appearance, but in your heart and in your actions, you are still a macho bruiser."
Dan? This is what trans people are talking about when they say there's still way too much free-floating hatred out there. Gay progressive columnist, librul blog, librul city: your audience includes a guy who feels perfectly entitled to tell trans women that they're ugly uppity men who ain't shit.
You do not put up with homophobic bullshit. Why contribute to this?
Dan? This is what trans people are talking about when they say there's still way too much free-floating hatred out there. Gay progressive columnist, librul blog, librul city: your audience includes a guy who feels perfectly entitled to tell trans women that they're ugly uppity men who ain't shit.
You do not put up with homophobic bullshit. Why contribute to this?
192
@184: You make a good point. Most of the MTFs I have known have acted traditionally male. I roomed with one who sat around cussing, watching Mariners games while drinking beer out of a bottle, sitting with his legs wide open while cutting farts, and just generally acting "male". Do natural-born women do these things sometimes? Sure, but they're also not paying thousands of dollars and taking untold amounts of time off work to transition to female.
193
@190:
"your audience includes a guy who feels perfectly entitled to tell trans women that they're ugly uppity men who ain't shit.
You do not put up with homophobic bullshit. Why contribute to this? "
That guy is entitled to say anything he wants. That is called "freedom". It is also the reason that Dan Savage is entitled to tell jokes and to make his living answering questions about sex. Fortunately, we haven't reached the point where all speech and all thought has to be pre-approved by trans thugs posing as activists.
Also, nothing in 184's post was "homophobic". Get your terms correct. Also, it is not hatred to make an observation and to stand up to thuggery. Trans activists are quick to threaten physical violence, as the poster above did when she threatened to spit in Dan's coffee. That is thuggish behavior that one would expect to see in a male with anger issues.
Fortunately, gay and lesbian people are rapidly waking up and realizing that the idea of "LGBT" is pure fiction. Gays want marriage, but we should never have entered into a shotgun wedding with a bunch of narcissistic, violence-prone thugs.
"your audience includes a guy who feels perfectly entitled to tell trans women that they're ugly uppity men who ain't shit.
You do not put up with homophobic bullshit. Why contribute to this? "
That guy is entitled to say anything he wants. That is called "freedom". It is also the reason that Dan Savage is entitled to tell jokes and to make his living answering questions about sex. Fortunately, we haven't reached the point where all speech and all thought has to be pre-approved by trans thugs posing as activists.
Also, nothing in 184's post was "homophobic". Get your terms correct. Also, it is not hatred to make an observation and to stand up to thuggery. Trans activists are quick to threaten physical violence, as the poster above did when she threatened to spit in Dan's coffee. That is thuggish behavior that one would expect to see in a male with anger issues.
Fortunately, gay and lesbian people are rapidly waking up and realizing that the idea of "LGBT" is pure fiction. Gays want marriage, but we should never have entered into a shotgun wedding with a bunch of narcissistic, violence-prone thugs.
194
I am completely dissapointed in you, Dan. I was a fan, and generally read your articles regularly and without hesitation. You need to apologize for this. Not just to douche bag McKenna, but to the entire TRANSGENDER community!
As a side, the other night I watched Jon Stewart's joke about politicians needing to make sure they know their prostitute IS trans before laying down money....
All the cis-folks did not get why it was offensive.. but, its not our job to education everyone who is not trans.
There is no need to continue to use trans people as an acceptable target for this sort of commentary. These jokes are offensive, and are at the expense of transgender people. This sort of comedy would be totally unacceptable had the joke been centered around issues of race or religion or homosexuality as the target, but for most of the media- transsexuals seem to still be fair game. That is not okay.
I didnt expect to see something like this from you Dan. I am dissapoionted, and until I see a real apology; something more than a "sorry i didnt sleep much so my joke was half assed" apology; I am boycotting reading your column and will tell all my Seattle queer and trans friends to do the same.
You completely fail at representing the LGBTQ community which you stand at the front of, which is kinda the point you were trying to make isnt it? Fail
As a side, the other night I watched Jon Stewart's joke about politicians needing to make sure they know their prostitute IS trans before laying down money....
All the cis-folks did not get why it was offensive.. but, its not our job to education everyone who is not trans.
There is no need to continue to use trans people as an acceptable target for this sort of commentary. These jokes are offensive, and are at the expense of transgender people. This sort of comedy would be totally unacceptable had the joke been centered around issues of race or religion or homosexuality as the target, but for most of the media- transsexuals seem to still be fair game. That is not okay.
I didnt expect to see something like this from you Dan. I am dissapoionted, and until I see a real apology; something more than a "sorry i didnt sleep much so my joke was half assed" apology; I am boycotting reading your column and will tell all my Seattle queer and trans friends to do the same.
You completely fail at representing the LGBTQ community which you stand at the front of, which is kinda the point you were trying to make isnt it? Fail
195
This post really sucks, Dan. It's way out of line to A) make up lies about politicians you don't like B) act like trans is an insult and C) use transphobia to try to harass McKenna. Do you need to hear stats about the intensity of violence against transpeople? It's not like you don't have a history of spewing bigoted, ignorant statements, but in this case you decided to target a group that is unequivocally less privileged than you, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
196
What the heck are you all so upset about? This doesn't disparage trans people, just like the comment about Ken Cuccinelli doesn't disparage gay people. It disparages hypocrites.
197
After wading through 196 comments, most of them egging on Mr. Savage's pathological transphobia and obsession with trans people, i'm just gonna do what i am supposed to do as a trying-to-be-a-good ally and remind you that people get killed, on a disturbingly frequent basis, for the intimation of transgender status. Seriously, it's not a joke, it's not the disparagement that Mr. Savage imagines it us, and, oh yeah, you're not radical or special for hating trans people, you're just a bigot.
I am not a small girl (in fact my fat cisgender ass is taller than most of the trans women i know or am related to) and i do drink beer from the bottle and curse at the baseball game because hello i'm watching the fucking Mariners choke again. Nobody ever determines that i must be a man or quietly intimates it on the internets, so why is it different for trans women? Oh yeah, because you found a group that it's socially acceptable to hate, just like back in the day it was socially acceptable to hate me for being black, like it's still socially acceptable outside the Seattle Bubble to hate me for being gay, etc. etc.
Disparage hypocrites for being hypocrites. Don't pull this smarmy, hateful bullshit. Rob McKenna is a douchebag of epic proportions. He's such a douchebag that you might as well replace him with a box of Summer's Eve and get it over with. For once, douching would be less harmful to women than something...
I am not a small girl (in fact my fat cisgender ass is taller than most of the trans women i know or am related to) and i do drink beer from the bottle and curse at the baseball game because hello i'm watching the fucking Mariners choke again. Nobody ever determines that i must be a man or quietly intimates it on the internets, so why is it different for trans women? Oh yeah, because you found a group that it's socially acceptable to hate, just like back in the day it was socially acceptable to hate me for being black, like it's still socially acceptable outside the Seattle Bubble to hate me for being gay, etc. etc.
Disparage hypocrites for being hypocrites. Don't pull this smarmy, hateful bullshit. Rob McKenna is a douchebag of epic proportions. He's such a douchebag that you might as well replace him with a box of Summer's Eve and get it over with. For once, douching would be less harmful to women than something...
201
I'm FTM Dan, and that really hurts. You're my hero and that really, really hurts. I don't even know what to say.
To everyone else saying "it's a joke" and "it's funny", you wouldn't say that if it was you always being made fun of by everyone in the world. Transgender people can't catch a break anywhere at all.
:(
I just don't even know what to say. I feel like I've been punched in the throat. And by my hero, no less.
To everyone else saying "it's a joke" and "it's funny", you wouldn't say that if it was you always being made fun of by everyone in the world. Transgender people can't catch a break anywhere at all.
:(
I just don't even know what to say. I feel like I've been punched in the throat. And by my hero, no less.
202
Way to pick on a minority within a minority, Dan. Har har har. Lets make fun a right winger by calling him a "tranny", just like Ann Coulter. Har har har. Because nobody wants to be part of one of the most downtrodden (high umemployment, high murder victim rate, high hate crime victim rates, high HIV rate, high housing discrimination rate) groups in the U.S.
203
Dan, the point is not whether you're a trans-hating "beegoat" or not. It's not up to me to gaze into your eyes and see your soul, and then make a statement about who you *are*. I'm only commenting on what you said — like many trans people, I'm offended and hurt that you would think that saying that is transgender is an insult.
You can argue all you like about why we shouldn't be hurt, but that won't change the fact that we are. Irrational, perhaps, but why should my feelings have to follow your logic? If you were in a crowd and accidentally stepped on someone's toes and s/he cried out in pain, would you launch into a disquisition about why s/he shouldn't hurt, because you didn't intend to hurt her/im?
You can argue all you like about why we shouldn't be hurt, but that won't change the fact that we are. Irrational, perhaps, but why should my feelings have to follow your logic? If you were in a crowd and accidentally stepped on someone's toes and s/he cried out in pain, would you launch into a disquisition about why s/he shouldn't hurt, because you didn't intend to hurt her/im?
206
Dan is at home right now, staring at his laptop, cackling and masturbating over the # of comments in this thread. Seriously. I live next door and the bitch never ever draws the blinds.
207
Oh Dan, another moment of controversy that puts you over the 200-comment mark. I wonder if our thing about bisexuals, or your thing about fat ppl, or your trans thing are really your opinions, or just trotted out every now & again to keep things lively & keep you from being too sugary.
This = not funny, unless you have links to support McKenna's being FTM. If it was said as a joke, as it appears - WTF.
Maybe I'll take your long-ago advice to folks who don't like your advice (t'was something like, don't like my advice? Write your own column!) & I can take all the bi's, trans people & chubby folks off your delicate hands. ;) & then I recall how you routinely tell straight boys to get their girls off, & paid for those kids out on their prom, & I get all conflicted again.
You've put yourself in a position where people turn to you seriously, Dan. Don't let your quest for the most hits fuck it up.
This = not funny, unless you have links to support McKenna's being FTM. If it was said as a joke, as it appears - WTF.
Maybe I'll take your long-ago advice to folks who don't like your advice (t'was something like, don't like my advice? Write your own column!) & I can take all the bi's, trans people & chubby folks off your delicate hands. ;) & then I recall how you routinely tell straight boys to get their girls off, & paid for those kids out on their prom, & I get all conflicted again.
You've put yourself in a position where people turn to you seriously, Dan. Don't let your quest for the most hits fuck it up.
208
It's still bullshit that Coulter is in the news this week and there are a lot of comments on the various blogs calling her a man. Those jokes have wide spread acceptance because people don't like her. But, if Savage makes a similar joke about someone he doesn't like then people shit their drawers. Weird.
210
I've heard for years that McKenna was FTM transgendered. I thought it was common knowledge. I've always been impressed by the open-mindedness of WA's Republicans!
211
"Yes, #208. Weird."
This is not true. Trans people complain about the Coulter jokes pretty frequently--because, hey, it kind of sucks to be synonymous with "gross and ugly," you know? I provided you with links upthread; you can google "Ann Coulter transphobic jokes" and find more pretty quickly, I think. I wrote about it the last time I saw it, and every commenter in the thread--including lots of trans people!--was all, "Yes! Exactly! That totally is offensive!"
Here, go follow this link, too:
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/20…
It would be great if you could dismiss trans people's complaints about constant insults by calling them insufficiently feminist, but it's not true.
This is not true. Trans people complain about the Coulter jokes pretty frequently--because, hey, it kind of sucks to be synonymous with "gross and ugly," you know? I provided you with links upthread; you can google "Ann Coulter transphobic jokes" and find more pretty quickly, I think. I wrote about it the last time I saw it, and every commenter in the thread--including lots of trans people!--was all, "Yes! Exactly! That totally is offensive!"
Here, go follow this link, too:
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/20…
It would be great if you could dismiss trans people's complaints about constant insults by calling them insufficiently feminist, but it's not true.
212
Oh Piny, I'm sorry. I saw your response, and the post (on my computer screen) ended with "trans people can hardly keep up with the transphobia," and I never even noticed the "more" link.
All those links, and I never saw them. I'm sorry, I wasn't ignoring you.
You're right. The relatively few blogs I read don't have a large population of trans people or feminists. I don't read the blogs you posted. Very seldom do I read Pam's House Blend, though I know (through her reputation) she is fantastic. I never read feministing.com. It's simply a time thing, and me not being that interested in hard, feminist issues.
Just some thoughts, though: I don't think the "Ann's a Man" comments have to do with people thinking Ann (or trans women) are "gross and ugly." I don't think the "Ann's a Man" comments have much to do with transgenderism at all.
All those links, and I never saw them. I'm sorry, I wasn't ignoring you.
You're right. The relatively few blogs I read don't have a large population of trans people or feminists. I don't read the blogs you posted. Very seldom do I read Pam's House Blend, though I know (through her reputation) she is fantastic. I never read feministing.com. It's simply a time thing, and me not being that interested in hard, feminist issues.
Just some thoughts, though: I don't think the "Ann's a Man" comments have to do with people thinking Ann (or trans women) are "gross and ugly." I don't think the "Ann's a Man" comments have much to do with transgenderism at all.
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Jade, really? You don't think that when people derisively call Ann Coulter a tranny it has anything to do with perceptions of trans people? We all "know" that she's not "really" trans, so why do people call Ms. Coulter trans? Because they don't like her and they think that calling her a trans woman, a tranny, or 'really a man' is an insult.
Ok people, look: when 'transgender' is used as an insulting adjective it makes trans people feel bad and we get upset. This is very similar to how saying things like "nigger-rigged" will make black people upset or "jewed down" will make jewish people upset.
It's not about some mythical political correctness it's about consideration for the feelings of others.
Trans people may be a little on the sensitive side when it comes to jokes sure, but maybe that's because trans people are sick of the same 3 jokes- that we're gross, that we "fooled" a cis person, or that a cis person is really trans. Maybe trans people are a little uptight because we've been holding it all day because while cis people are just havin' a little fun we can't even find a safe place to pee in the real world. Maybe when trans people aren't completely disenfranchised we can all get together and have a little laugh, but until then it's not a "joke" it's hatespeech. Go ahead and say whatever you want, it's America that's what we do, but don't try to act like it's just a joke that doesn't have anything to do with real people, like all hatespeech the logic that begins with innocent jokes ends with violent death. And don't act all surprised and victimized when people call hate hate.
Dan, you've probably exposed more people in America to the fact that transgender women are women and transgender men are men than anyone else and you deserve credit for that, but dude...
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Ok people, look: when 'transgender' is used as an insulting adjective it makes trans people feel bad and we get upset. This is very similar to how saying things like "nigger-rigged" will make black people upset or "jewed down" will make jewish people upset.
It's not about some mythical political correctness it's about consideration for the feelings of others.
Trans people may be a little on the sensitive side when it comes to jokes sure, but maybe that's because trans people are sick of the same 3 jokes- that we're gross, that we "fooled" a cis person, or that a cis person is really trans. Maybe trans people are a little uptight because we've been holding it all day because while cis people are just havin' a little fun we can't even find a safe place to pee in the real world. Maybe when trans people aren't completely disenfranchised we can all get together and have a little laugh, but until then it's not a "joke" it's hatespeech. Go ahead and say whatever you want, it's America that's what we do, but don't try to act like it's just a joke that doesn't have anything to do with real people, like all hatespeech the logic that begins with innocent jokes ends with violent death. And don't act all surprised and victimized when people call hate hate.
Dan, you've probably exposed more people in America to the fact that transgender women are women and transgender men are men than anyone else and you deserve credit for that, but dude...
214
No, the way I understand the joke is that they don't like her and they think that she will think it's an insult. Just like when we accuse homophobes of being gay.
See, liberals calling Ann stupid or a bitch or wrong or bigoted or hateful, etc. She doesn't give a shit. She hates liberals and she wears their insults and complaints like a badge of pride. But saying something about her looks? That's getting close, but she'll never believe an insult of "ugly," because she's not ugly and she knows it. Skinny? Hell, that's a compliment. But "looks like a trans woman"? Now that's gonna hurt, because there's a small ring of truth to it. It's not a comment that means "ugly"; it's only a comment that's kind of true. And Ann knows it. Republicans know it. It's a brilliant insult, not because it has anything to do with trans women, but because it's probably the only "insult" that liberals can throw at Ann that actually will sting. Because she thinks it's an insult.
If I was a trans woman I'd be leading the charge. I'd make a website encouraging Ann to come out, to join us. I'd include fashion tips, but I'd also have a list of questions for Ann, asking who performed her fantastic transition surgery.
The hate in that comment about Ann is all about Ann, not trans women. But understanding this takes critical thinking and critical thinking requires a lack of emotion. I'm not saying you can't think critically, Rose, but I'm saying you're emotional about this. Understandably so, but still...
I'm good looking, but I don't have feminine features. I have long hair because short hair literally makes me look like a boy. But I'm not an ugly woman. I simply have a unique look. If someone said "you could pass as a trans woman," I'd know exactly what that person meant and I'd agree. But then, I don't think the "look" of trans women is unattractive.
Absolutely. Remember when he encouraged sloggers to fund Duanna Johnson's funeral?
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We all "know" that she's not "really" trans, so why do people call Ms. Coulter trans? Because they don't like her and they think that calling her a trans woman, a tranny, or 'really a man' is an insult.
No, the way I understand the joke is that they don't like her and they think that she will think it's an insult. Just like when we accuse homophobes of being gay.
See, liberals calling Ann stupid or a bitch or wrong or bigoted or hateful, etc. She doesn't give a shit. She hates liberals and she wears their insults and complaints like a badge of pride. But saying something about her looks? That's getting close, but she'll never believe an insult of "ugly," because she's not ugly and she knows it. Skinny? Hell, that's a compliment. But "looks like a trans woman"? Now that's gonna hurt, because there's a small ring of truth to it. It's not a comment that means "ugly"; it's only a comment that's kind of true. And Ann knows it. Republicans know it. It's a brilliant insult, not because it has anything to do with trans women, but because it's probably the only "insult" that liberals can throw at Ann that actually will sting. Because she thinks it's an insult.
If I was a trans woman I'd be leading the charge. I'd make a website encouraging Ann to come out, to join us. I'd include fashion tips, but I'd also have a list of questions for Ann, asking who performed her fantastic transition surgery.
The hate in that comment about Ann is all about Ann, not trans women. But understanding this takes critical thinking and critical thinking requires a lack of emotion. I'm not saying you can't think critically, Rose, but I'm saying you're emotional about this. Understandably so, but still...
I'm good looking, but I don't have feminine features. I have long hair because short hair literally makes me look like a boy. But I'm not an ugly woman. I simply have a unique look. If someone said "you could pass as a trans woman," I'd know exactly what that person meant and I'd agree. But then, I don't think the "look" of trans women is unattractive.
Dan, you've probably exposed more people in America to the fact that transgender women are women and transgender men are men than anyone else and you deserve credit for that
Absolutely. Remember when he encouraged sloggers to fund Duanna Johnson's funeral?
215
"No, the way I understand the joke is that they don't like her and they think that she will think it's an insult. Just like when we accuse homophobes of being gay."
That would still mean buying into transphobia in order to hurt her with it: that tactic perpetuates the idea that "tranny" is offensive to cis people.
But 'm not sure it's right. The trans-baiting--as here--does almost always involve mocking Ann for being a hideous ugly bony ginormous hatchet faced freak. They don't call her transbecause she's transphobic; they call her trans because she fits a stereotype of what trans women are supposed to look like. You never hear this attack on Michelle Malkin or Sarah Palin, or on the other women of the right. They're just as vain and vapid. There are prominent wingnut women, like Phyllis Schlafly, who are far more focused on hurting queers; doesn't happen to them.
So it's not just, "Ha, ha, transphobe, how do you like it--?" It's, "Ha, ha, you're such an ugly bitch you might as well be trans." That's transphobic.
That would still mean buying into transphobia in order to hurt her with it: that tactic perpetuates the idea that "tranny" is offensive to cis people.
But 'm not sure it's right. The trans-baiting--as here--does almost always involve mocking Ann for being a hideous ugly bony ginormous hatchet faced freak. They don't call her transbecause she's transphobic; they call her trans because she fits a stereotype of what trans women are supposed to look like. You never hear this attack on Michelle Malkin or Sarah Palin, or on the other women of the right. They're just as vain and vapid. There are prominent wingnut women, like Phyllis Schlafly, who are far more focused on hurting queers; doesn't happen to them.
So it's not just, "Ha, ha, transphobe, how do you like it--?" It's, "Ha, ha, you're such an ugly bitch you might as well be trans." That's transphobic.
216
Dan is less transphobic than most people in this country (of course, Garrison Keillor is less homophobic than most people in this country). That doesn't mean there's no point in saying something when he gets it wrong.
"If I was a trans woman I'd be leading the charge. I'd make a website encouraging Ann to come out, to join us. I'd include fashion tips, but I'd also have a list of questions for Ann, asking who performed her fantastic transition surgery."
If you were a trans woman, and if actually being a trans woman didn't make you feel very differently, then that would be entirely your choice. And you could totally mock Ann's ability to be properly female and ask invasive questions about her medical history, if you wanted, as a trans person and not a cis person. (Really, if it's not offensive, why not go and do that? Less funny?)
But a bunch of actual trans people don't like this tactic. They don't like what these insults say about them. They don't even like what these insults say about Ann. They are tired of being humiliated in order to humiliate someone else. They are tired of being seen as collateral damage. They are tired of being told that transphobia only affects the cis people lobbing it back and forth. I think that, given their objections, trans-baiting is inappropriate.
"If I was a trans woman I'd be leading the charge. I'd make a website encouraging Ann to come out, to join us. I'd include fashion tips, but I'd also have a list of questions for Ann, asking who performed her fantastic transition surgery."
If you were a trans woman, and if actually being a trans woman didn't make you feel very differently, then that would be entirely your choice. And you could totally mock Ann's ability to be properly female and ask invasive questions about her medical history, if you wanted, as a trans person and not a cis person. (Really, if it's not offensive, why not go and do that? Less funny?)
But a bunch of actual trans people don't like this tactic. They don't like what these insults say about them. They don't even like what these insults say about Ann. They are tired of being humiliated in order to humiliate someone else. They are tired of being seen as collateral damage. They are tired of being told that transphobia only affects the cis people lobbing it back and forth. I think that, given their objections, trans-baiting is inappropriate.
217
Well did anyone forget Rob McKenna is the guy who keeps fighting to put the Ref 71 signatures open to the public????
218
Everyone seems to forget that you idiots endorsed the weasel. But then you endorsed the Iraq war too, remember? That's why I use the Eat the State voting guide, it's actually real...
219
I don't see why everyone is surprised by Dan's transphobia, every time the trans comes up in Savage Love he always says the obligatory PC thing and then gets his little digs in subtley. Or not so subtley, like enlisting some self-hating mtf to proclaim that post-op transwomen's junk is universally nasty-looking and stinky (it's not) and calling ftms "guys with pies" and proclaiming he wants his retinas burned out after looking at Buck Angel.
Dan is a financially privileged white guy and he sees the world in terms of winners and losers. If you are dickless you will always lose in Dan's world, because you're not a real man, and that's a really common viewpoint among privileged white gay guys. He called McKenna a dickless loser and thought he was funny and clever for doing so, that's all.
People are freaking out because this is the same logic that straight guys employ to use "gay" and "fag" as put-downs. But Dan really isn't much different from those straight guys in his worldview. This is why he's so vocal about gay rights -- his life would be unbesmirched by discrimination if it weren't for that one thing, his sexual orientation, keeping him from getting the respect from greater society that he feels he's entitled to. And he's outraged. But it's all about him, he doesn't give a fuck about lesbians, although he can see how they kind of have the same deal. But transpeople... no, they're too weird, this is their own fault, it's not just that one thing. And bisexuals have a choice, they still have a chance at straight privilege, and he never had a choice, wah wah, not fair, fuck them. Etc.
Dan proves over and over that the "T" is not a part of the queer "community" and only given lipservice to for PC reasons. We're useful for jokes, I guess, though.
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Dan is a financially privileged white guy and he sees the world in terms of winners and losers. If you are dickless you will always lose in Dan's world, because you're not a real man, and that's a really common viewpoint among privileged white gay guys. He called McKenna a dickless loser and thought he was funny and clever for doing so, that's all.
People are freaking out because this is the same logic that straight guys employ to use "gay" and "fag" as put-downs. But Dan really isn't much different from those straight guys in his worldview. This is why he's so vocal about gay rights -- his life would be unbesmirched by discrimination if it weren't for that one thing, his sexual orientation, keeping him from getting the respect from greater society that he feels he's entitled to. And he's outraged. But it's all about him, he doesn't give a fuck about lesbians, although he can see how they kind of have the same deal. But transpeople... no, they're too weird, this is their own fault, it's not just that one thing. And bisexuals have a choice, they still have a chance at straight privilege, and he never had a choice, wah wah, not fair, fuck them. Etc.
Dan proves over and over that the "T" is not a part of the queer "community" and only given lipservice to for PC reasons. We're useful for jokes, I guess, though.
220
Your "joke" is about as acceptable as using the term "gay" as a pejorative. You're no better than the people you claim to despise.
Stay classy, shitbag,
Stay classy, shitbag,
221
First of all, while reading this, I actually thought this might be true. This is very poor journalism and how rumors get started. You need to post an update that clarifies your intent with this post.
Using sexual reassignment as an insult is in very poor taste and insulting to the community. You pretend to stick up for the transgendered community, but you're really just hurting them. I'm disgusted by you.
Using sexual reassignment as an insult is in very poor taste and insulting to the community. You pretend to stick up for the transgendered community, but you're really just hurting them. I'm disgusted by you.
222
you understand "that's so gay" is offensive yes?
you understand that calling someone gay as a slur is offensive yes?
and as a "joke" it's not funny?
have you thought about why?
because you're gay.
you've heard straight people tell gay folk to not be so sensitive about it.
well at least try putting the shoe on the other foot. transgendered folk *are* deeply offended. and they are the ones harmed by the continued use of transgender tagging as a slur.
you understand that calling someone gay as a slur is offensive yes?
and as a "joke" it's not funny?
have you thought about why?
because you're gay.
you've heard straight people tell gay folk to not be so sensitive about it.
well at least try putting the shoe on the other foot. transgendered folk *are* deeply offended. and they are the ones harmed by the continued use of transgender tagging as a slur.
223
Sick people. You have no substance or facts, yet; all you people can do is attack. I support Rob McKenna; I look forward to help elect him as our next Governor--then all of you far left hateful people may receive less entitlements and may actually have to be valued-added to the community (that poltically correct for getting off your computer in your parents' basement, get out of your jammys, off your asses and WORK).
Attorney General McKenna is doing the honorable thing for hard-working Americans. I was thrilled to hear that withstood the ol' bag, Gergoire and said that he was an elected offical (I took part in his election) and she could corrupt him like the remaining Obama-knobbers in the State Government. November is approaching quickly, I would suggest looking for a real job.
Attorney General McKenna is doing the honorable thing for hard-working Americans. I was thrilled to hear that withstood the ol' bag, Gergoire and said that he was an elected offical (I took part in his election) and she could corrupt him like the remaining Obama-knobbers in the State Government. November is approaching quickly, I would suggest looking for a real job.
224
McKenna is just sitting on his hands - doing nothing. His office has been a joke for many years. Send the man serious issues to work with and all you have is a wall of silence.
See my web site: http://www.dancollins888.com ....
See my web site: http://www.dancollins888.com ....
225
this is definitely not an okay thing to say, or to post. Even if this man was transgendered it wouldn't be an okay thing to post. Because what's in your pants is YOUR business.
But the fact remains that he is, in fact, not transgendered. What would even make you think this was okay is beyond me. I'd be much more intelligent in my frustration if it weren't 5:30 in the morning right now, but my point remains, you need to take this down. It's not funny now, it wasn't funny when it was posted, and it won't be funny in the future. It's offensive and cruel and politically incorrect in every way possible.
But the fact remains that he is, in fact, not transgendered. What would even make you think this was okay is beyond me. I'd be much more intelligent in my frustration if it weren't 5:30 in the morning right now, but my point remains, you need to take this down. It's not funny now, it wasn't funny when it was posted, and it won't be funny in the future. It's offensive and cruel and politically incorrect in every way possible.
227
Yey! Yet another transphobic slur in The Stranger. Couldn't find anything worse to call him?
The horrible secret for trans-folk.... it doesn't really get better. Even the most liberal, friendly rag regularly makes fun of you.
The horrible secret for trans-folk.... it doesn't really get better. Even the most liberal, friendly rag regularly makes fun of you.
228
This is disgusting. He is not transgendered, and the fact that you would say he is as an insult is wrong and offensive to the transgender community. Spreading rumors like this in an attempt to embarrass this man is ridiculous- there are things he's really done which are actual insults, so why use false accusations which shouldn't even be insulting?
Once again, Dan is perpetuating negativity on transfolk, and it's harmful and disgusting. I don't think Dan really deserves all the credit he receives.
Once again, Dan is perpetuating negativity on transfolk, and it's harmful and disgusting. I don't think Dan really deserves all the credit he receives.
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