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News & ArtsThursday, March 18, 2010
Health Mental Illness Is a Health Problem
Posted by Charles Mudede on Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 8:19 AM
As for the man who caused this scene last week?
(Seattle Times) A mentally ill man who caused a bomb scare in downtown Seattle last when he walked into a homeless shelter wearing what appeared to be a pipe bomb and claiming to be a vampire was charged Wednesday with threats to bomb or injure property.Again, the ideology of the accountable individual, an ideology that is sustained and reinforced by the powerful members of this society, is entirely responsible for how the law is handling this situation. A situation, furthermore, that should be removed from the hands of the law and placed in the hands of healthcare. The ideology of the accountable individual is not only irrational but also costly—and, ultimately, it is the public that pays this heavy price.Vladimir Lestat Augustine, 33, was arrested Friday morning after police said he walked into the front lobby of the Union Gospel Mission, announced that he was a vampire and demanded to be let into the day room so he could feast on the people inside, court charging papers said. Augustine, whose body was wrapped in black electrical tape, then told staff at the mission that he was "a space cowboy," and raised his arm to show a metal object taped to his body. Augustine announced that he was armed with a bomb.
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...and, ultimately, it is the public that pays this heavy price.
How would that be any different if this were being "placed in the hands of healthcare"?
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"Vladimir Lestat Augustine"...? This guy was obviously mentally sound enough to go down to a courthouse and get his name legally changed.
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There is no easy solution. Placing these folks into the hands of the healthcare system would simply shift the burden. And it's not as if the mentally ill have not been abused en mass by healthcare systems in the past. As for the "ideology of the accountable individual", it's a nice turn of phrase but unfortunately society can't function without it.
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@3 Involuntary commitment is generally the right way to bring help to ill people that are a risk to themselves and others, isn't it?
The difference is between jail and medical care. This guy obviously needs medical care, and since he's a risk to others, his right to decline is reduced for the good of the overall society. That's sort of how it's always worked in the real world.
The difference is between jail and medical care. This guy obviously needs medical care, and since he's a risk to others, his right to decline is reduced for the good of the overall society. That's sort of how it's always worked in the real world.
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How does everybody leap from "the state should do more to prevent this sort of thing" to talking about involuntary commitment? There's a lot of help that people can get before you have to shut them away -- help they can't get because there's no money to pay for it.
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Where do you draw the line though? What if you aren't mentally ill and you just want to fuck with people? There's lots of people out there like that.
Cops should be involved first in situations like these since they have power & weapons to protect people. Once it's established it's a mental condition, ok, then the healthcare people come in and take care of the situation. But let's bring it down to the practical - are you suggesting that there should be no more prisons and just "hospitals" for everyone that threatens to blow up a building? If that's your idea of an ideal society, I sure don't want to live in it.
Cops should be involved first in situations like these since they have power & weapons to protect people. Once it's established it's a mental condition, ok, then the healthcare people come in and take care of the situation. But let's bring it down to the practical - are you suggesting that there should be no more prisons and just "hospitals" for everyone that threatens to blow up a building? If that's your idea of an ideal society, I sure don't want to live in it.
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@7 agree.
@8 I would agree except that the number of people with schizophrenia who reject voluntary treatment (because they can't rely on any of their senses) and are now homeless is substantial. I would like to see some studies, but I would argue that it may be close to half of the total population of adult men with schizophrenia have no permanent address. (if anyone has information on any studies involving residency and schizophrenia, I'd be super interested.)
I once had an hour long conversation with a very close family member about whether or not I actually existed, and not as a philosophical discussion. He did not take my presence and my assertion of my presence to be necessarily real.
It's really hard to give someone mental health advice/orders when they don't believe you are a person.
@8 I would agree except that the number of people with schizophrenia who reject voluntary treatment (because they can't rely on any of their senses) and are now homeless is substantial. I would like to see some studies, but I would argue that it may be close to half of the total population of adult men with schizophrenia have no permanent address. (if anyone has information on any studies involving residency and schizophrenia, I'd be super interested.)
I once had an hour long conversation with a very close family member about whether or not I actually existed, and not as a philosophical discussion. He did not take my presence and my assertion of my presence to be necessarily real.
It's really hard to give someone mental health advice/orders when they don't believe you are a person.
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@9 cops do their best to diagnose mental illness, I suppose, but they aren't trained professionals, so I have no idea why they would be the best first contact for people with schizophrenia.
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that teenagers are thrown in arkham for being "crrrazzy kids!" or whatever. People with schizophrenia are very different from people who commit crimes due to other motivations.
It's not that thin of a line between schizophrenic and not if we use science instead of panic and stereotype.
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that teenagers are thrown in arkham for being "crrrazzy kids!" or whatever. People with schizophrenia are very different from people who commit crimes due to other motivations.
It's not that thin of a line between schizophrenic and not if we use science instead of panic and stereotype.
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I didn't even have to read the by-line. The word "ideology" jumped out as I scanned down the article and instantly knew it was written by Mudede.
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Cops are frequently on the front line of mental illness or addiction diagnoses. Just because he's mentally ill and this is a cry for help doesn't mean he's not a danger to society. And it may be unfortunate, but the criminal justice process, in a courtroom, is frequently the only avenue people have to get into a mental health process.
This is the real world. All of the people involved -- cops, judges, psychiatrists, whatever -- are fully aware of these issues. @8, involuntary commitment is not just "locking them away", it's using the power of the law to force them into treatment. As @10 points out, there are a LOT of people like this walking the streets. It would be nice if we were interested as a society in making their lives and ours better, but we're not; this is what we have left.
At least he didn't choose suicide by cop.
This is the real world. All of the people involved -- cops, judges, psychiatrists, whatever -- are fully aware of these issues. @8, involuntary commitment is not just "locking them away", it's using the power of the law to force them into treatment. As @10 points out, there are a LOT of people like this walking the streets. It would be nice if we were interested as a society in making their lives and ours better, but we're not; this is what we have left.
At least he didn't choose suicide by cop.
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It's possible that charging him with a crime is necessary to get him into a mental health facility. Unfortunate, but that's how the system works.
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