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News & ArtsThursday, March 18, 2010
Health / Politics Fiscal Conservatives Will Now Embrace Health Care Reform... Right?
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:41 AM
Congressional Democrats say the final version of their comprehensive health-care plan—set to be unveiled Thursday and likely to be voted on Sunday—would cut the federal deficit by $138 billion over the next decade and $1.2 trillion 10 years after that.
That's actually not what Congressional Democrats say. It's what the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says. And the CBO, according to Paul Krugman, is probably low-balling the potential savings:
Furthermore, there’s good reason to believe that all such estimates are too pessimistic. There are many cost-saving efforts in the proposed reform, but nobody knows how well any one of these efforts will work. And as a result, official estimates don’t give the plan much credit for any of them. What the actuary and the budget office do is a bit like looking at an oil company’s prospecting efforts, concluding that any individual test hole it drills will probably come up dry, and predicting as a consequence that the company won’t find any oil at all — when the odds are, in fact, that some of the test holes will pan out, and produce big payoffs. Realistically, health reform is likely to do much better at controlling costs than any of the official projections suggest.
2
You heard it here first: Vote today or first thing tomorrow. Congratulations Democrats, you've passed Health Care Reform.
The slaughter in November averted.
The slaughter in November averted.
3
@1: Well, Elmendorf sank Clinton's HCR plan by saying it would cost much more than expected, so seeing his office say this one will cost much less and actually earn the country money is a good thing.
4
Government-run universal coverage with a focus on preventative medicine is what would've saved the most money in the end, but no one in power seems to care about the most progressive & most fiscally responsible option... hmmm, it's almost like our Reps in D.C. are idiots or somethin'.
5
OuterCow @4: hmmm, it's almost like our Reps in D.C. are idiots or somethin'.
Hey, OuterCow, it takes one to know one. You might want to wake up from your fantasy world and start giving credit to people who want to do some good in the real world.
Looks like at least one person woke up from fantasyland.
Hey, OuterCow, it takes one to know one. You might want to wake up from your fantasy world and start giving credit to people who want to do some good in the real world.
Looks like at least one person woke up from fantasyland.
6
@4:
I don't think that's quite accurate. Politics is, after all, "the art of the possible", and not "the art of the ideal".
So long as there are a significant number of people in this country who obstinately stand in the way of progress - and who vote - small, incremental steps forward are always going to be the best that can be managed.
I don't think that's quite accurate. Politics is, after all, "the art of the possible", and not "the art of the ideal".
So long as there are a significant number of people in this country who obstinately stand in the way of progress - and who vote - small, incremental steps forward are always going to be the best that can be managed.
7
The "conservative" party currently holding sway has very little to do with "fiscal conservatism." They have shown time and again that they are okay with running up huge deficits. The true fiscal conservatives, the Goldwater Republicans and their ilk, have been run out of the party or told to keep quiet since the 80's.
So no, this argument will hold no sway whatsoever. They are too busy red-baiting to concede any points to reason.
So no, this argument will hold no sway whatsoever. They are too busy red-baiting to concede any points to reason.
10
@9 Too true. Case in point; it's not that the media was biased against George W. Bush it was the facts that were biased against him. Stupid facts. All the more reason to ignore them.
12
Whoever said it, the obstructionists time is over now. They really should've done this from the onset to cut off all the hot air from the opposition. Making this comletely about cost reduction from the start instead of having allowed the repubs to take center stage as they have with all their nonsense would've saved them from all the grief that this has gotten.
13
@12 Holy crap, I agree with you. I said the Dems should've pulled a Woody from day one and had Obama tell them all in private meetings nonstop: "Nut up or shut up."
The fact they let buffoons like Bachmann, McConnell, and Boner grandstand at all was the biggest fail.
The fact they let buffoons like Bachmann, McConnell, and Boner grandstand at all was the biggest fail.
14
@9, 10: Here, here. I think the original actually was: "Everyone knows reality has a harsh liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
But your point is solid nonetheless. Health Care Reform is not only going to be good for America in terms of getting rid of all that ridiculous fraud that's been going on constantly, it also just is the cheaper way to go.
@12, 13: Wow, it's rare I can say I agree with Loveschild. But on this post, nailed it. They let this get out of control last year. It's only really since January they've been on their game.
Then again, they heard the real message of the Scott Brown election: Give us progressive change or you will pay. The more Dems give in to Republican lies that the country doesn't want reform, the more it hurts them.
But if they make the election a choice between new ideas and Republican ideas, they could actually win seats in November.
But your point is solid nonetheless. Health Care Reform is not only going to be good for America in terms of getting rid of all that ridiculous fraud that's been going on constantly, it also just is the cheaper way to go.
@12, 13: Wow, it's rare I can say I agree with Loveschild. But on this post, nailed it. They let this get out of control last year. It's only really since January they've been on their game.
Then again, they heard the real message of the Scott Brown election: Give us progressive change or you will pay. The more Dems give in to Republican lies that the country doesn't want reform, the more it hurts them.
But if they make the election a choice between new ideas and Republican ideas, they could actually win seats in November.
15
It's a good first step, but you won't see a reduction from the 2012 projection of 20 percent of GDP in the USA until we actually have real competition and trust busting in the pharmaceutical and insurance and medical fields.
This is just part one.
This is just part one.
17
@15 A direct assault on the farcical free market ideals is what is needed. That will be an even harder fight and won't happen until/if Obama wins in 2012.
19
We have a bridge for sale girls....
Any "savings" realized, and they are nowhere near what the report claims, come from cutting Medicare and taxing medical insurance plans.
Robbing Peter to pay Paul, much?
Any "savings" realized, and they are nowhere near what the report claims, come from cutting Medicare and taxing medical insurance plans.
Robbing Peter to pay Paul, much?
20
16
They should dub this the Jack Off Plan,
cause the only thing it will accomplish is the Democraps beating themselves...
They should dub this the Jack Off Plan,
cause the only thing it will accomplish is the Democraps beating themselves...
24
Also, I wonder if 19 is against cutting Medicare - you know, that nasty, socialized single-payer government takeover of elderly healthcare?
Oh yeah. That one. Don't wanna cut that, hell no.
...This argument is so boring now. It's over. Pack it in and go home.
Oh yeah. That one. Don't wanna cut that, hell no.
...This argument is so boring now. It's over. Pack it in and go home.
25
@13 Problem was that in their attempts at avoiding the pitfalls from the Clinton health care overhaul the administration chose to do it completely differently and discard even the positive things done from that previous battle. And so they at first to a backseat to give the impression that this was something being worked solely in Congress, so that once they came up with something then they would take it to the President. That gave the repubs way too much ammunition to make the President seem as tho he wasnt in charge of this and then didn't knew what he was doing, along with the death panels stupidity brought by palin and the rest of the circus.
26
You know, if you really wanted to cut costs and deficits, you'd take all the Republicants and lock them in a room.
And then throw away the key.
Most of them are really old white guys and aren't productive members of society - they don't actually create any assets or goods of value, but leech off of other productive Americans.
Hence, the locked room solution.
To hasten the positive outcome, you might want to toss a few grenades in, right before locking the door, mind you, but that would be optimal.
And then throw away the key.
Most of them are really old white guys and aren't productive members of society - they don't actually create any assets or goods of value, but leech off of other productive Americans.
Hence, the locked room solution.
To hasten the positive outcome, you might want to toss a few grenades in, right before locking the door, mind you, but that would be optimal.
27
24
actually the troll would like to see medicare become needs based.
however the troll knows democrap interest groups luv the guvmint medicare and when they realize the democraps are slashing funding will cut their balls off...
actually the troll would like to see medicare become needs based.
however the troll knows democrap interest groups luv the guvmint medicare and when they realize the democraps are slashing funding will cut their balls off...
28
24
and the GOP in general don't give a flying fuck about medicare but know it will panic the old folks and generate massive opposition to obama care and cost democraps big time in the election.
and the GOP in general don't give a flying fuck about medicare but know it will panic the old folks and generate massive opposition to obama care and cost democraps big time in the election.
29
@28: AARP has repeatedly endorsed what the Democrats are doing by way of health care reform. Maybe you should get out of politics and go into something where accuracy and logic aren't stressed; how about celebrity wrestling?
Hurr durr, Alleged.
Hurr durr, Alleged.
30
@4 -- They're not idiots. They're crooks. They know the math, and they know when the math is screwing various corporations' political lobbying funding.
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