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News & ArtsSaturday, March 13, 2010
Science Whitey and the Moon
Posted by Charles Mudede on Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 1:57 PM
BBC:
Former Nasa astronauts who went to the Moon have told the BBC of their dismay at President Barack Obama's decision to push back further Moon missions.Jim Lovell, commander of the ill-fated Apollo 13 mission, said Mr Obama's decision would have "catastrophic consequences" for US space exploration.
The last man on the Moon, Eugene Cernan, said it was "disappointing".
Last month Mr Obama cancelled Nasa's Constellation Moon landings programme, approved by ex-President George W Bush.
Nasa still aims to send astronauts back to the Moon, but it is likely to take decades and some believe that it will never happen again.
In light of the current big political issue, one that Obama has been pushing since the start of his presidency, the opening line of Gil Scott-Heron's 1970 poem has in it the ring of the prophetic:
A rat done bit my sister Nell.
(with Whitey on the moon)
Her face and arms began to swell.
(and Whitey's on the moon)
I can't pay no doctor bill.
(but Whitey's on the moon)
Ten years from now I'll be payin' still.
(while Whitey's on the moon)
- Image by Myyorgda
3
GS-H's "Whitey" is an understated masterpiece deserving more due than it's ever received. Definitely better than the better-known "Revolution".
4
Charles,
I agree with the Administration on this. We have far more pressing problems here on earth (especially in the USA) than to indulge in literal flights of fancy to the moon and elsewhere via NASA. However, I disagree with GSH on the achievement of placing a human on the moon more than 40 years ago and racializing it in poetry. It was a remarkable event for ALL of mankind. And, GSH has far more pressing problems with drugs and the law. He has a good body of work but his career has been hampered by drug abuse and legal problems.
I agree with the Administration on this. We have far more pressing problems here on earth (especially in the USA) than to indulge in literal flights of fancy to the moon and elsewhere via NASA. However, I disagree with GSH on the achievement of placing a human on the moon more than 40 years ago and racializing it in poetry. It was a remarkable event for ALL of mankind. And, GSH has far more pressing problems with drugs and the law. He has a good body of work but his career has been hampered by drug abuse and legal problems.
7
Apparently only white people have an interest in space exploration. Get it!? Get it?! Charles in hilarious.
9
Charles, you're a racist bigot. Imagine how upset you'd be if somone published "darkie on the ..."
10
Imagine how quaint this will seem someday when the Chinese, Indians, and Brazilians dominate the space industry.
12
Honestly, it's been kind of a long time since Mudede has made a complete ass of himself. He was overdue.
13
Given the speed at which we're making this planet uninhabitable, our only HOPE (black, white, red, brown, yellow, purple, what-have-you) may be to learn to survive in outer space, and, if possible, to seek out habitable planets in other solar systems.
I get the whole, "we have more pressing needs down here" argument, but it's one that only looks at the short-term. Long term, something eventually is going to smite earth a killing blow, whether it's our own avarice or paranoia, a massive asteroid, a giant solar flare - something.
And when it comes (and it WILL come, we already know that much, based on evidence of previous cataclysmic events) all our earthbound attention won't amount to a hill of beans if we haven't taken some steps to get off this rock and out of the way of whatever comes down the road; whether it be a century from now or five, or a millennium, it's not that far into the future, even in human terms.
I get the whole, "we have more pressing needs down here" argument, but it's one that only looks at the short-term. Long term, something eventually is going to smite earth a killing blow, whether it's our own avarice or paranoia, a massive asteroid, a giant solar flare - something.
And when it comes (and it WILL come, we already know that much, based on evidence of previous cataclysmic events) all our earthbound attention won't amount to a hill of beans if we haven't taken some steps to get off this rock and out of the way of whatever comes down the road; whether it be a century from now or five, or a millennium, it's not that far into the future, even in human terms.
14
I'm torn. I know we have pressing needs and not enough money. But we always have pressing needs and not enough money. That's the tale of the world. And there is still great potential in the research science of space.
And though it pains me to say this, the real reason for the Tea Baggers is they want to make sure that whitey doesn't spend money on the poor. They don't mind huge deficits (Reagan, their God, was the original big deficit spender) as long as it's to fight wars or support the military industrial complex. But any hint the deficit is to spend money on poor blacks and they lose their marbles. That's clearly why the visceral reaction to Obama and his push for health care reform.
And though it pains me to say this, the real reason for the Tea Baggers is they want to make sure that whitey doesn't spend money on the poor. They don't mind huge deficits (Reagan, their God, was the original big deficit spender) as long as it's to fight wars or support the military industrial complex. But any hint the deficit is to spend money on poor blacks and they lose their marbles. That's clearly why the visceral reaction to Obama and his push for health care reform.
15
NASA accounts for less than one percent of the federal budget. Further cuts won't address any of those "more pressing" problems in our country.
16
czh@15: that's true, but most of the federal budget is taken up by either entitlements (social security, medicaid/medicare) or the military. Cutting the former is political suicide, and proposing serious cuts to the latter (probably for anyone, but damn sure for a vaguely liberal, black president) is physical, literal suicide. So if you want to make a show of being "fiscally responsible" without cutting your own throat figuratively and literally, well, there's not a lot of visible, viable targets other than NASA and the NEA/NEH.
Me, I'm for folding the Air Force back into the army and the USMC back into the Navy, and using the cost savings to quintuple NASA's budget, but strangely the white house is not returning my calls.
Me, I'm for folding the Air Force back into the army and the USMC back into the Navy, and using the cost savings to quintuple NASA's budget, but strangely the white house is not returning my calls.
17
Charles, when you post do you expect those who "add a comment" to attempt an even minimal understanding of your story?
Or do you offer us your observations with no expectation of reasonable investigation, comprehension, or insight?
How much can a writer ask of his audience?
Or do you offer us your observations with no expectation of reasonable investigation, comprehension, or insight?
How much can a writer ask of his audience?
18
Actually, it's .52% of the budget, or $17.7 billion (before Obama's cuts). Compared to the amount of money that's been pissed away just this year on bailouts and giveaways, that's negligible by anybody's standards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Budget
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Budget
20
Carl Sagan was right when he said if we want to develop nonstick frying pans or instant orange juice we should put research dollars into nonstick frying pans or instant orange juice. Not macho space missions looking for a reason to exist. With all due respect to the ex-fighter jock and his mid-20th Century world view.
21
I prefer the original version 'But Whitey Just Invented Penicillin'.
God, scientific research is such a wasteful, elitist pursuit.
God, scientific research is such a wasteful, elitist pursuit.
23
Maybe we could spend less on the military and put some of that money into NASA? It would be nice to know what is out there and you know, maybe avoid the fate that happened to the dinosaurs. You know, large pieces of rock slamming into the planet......
24
Because going to the moon is JUST LIKE penicillin, and not a superpowers' dick-measuring contest.
26
Yeah, the advancement of the human race to the next logical step of human development is a waste of time.
People frown at the expense of putting a man on the moon, but shout a big 'fuck yeah' at weapons that blast entire villages to ash.
One of the last great points of pride this country has had is putting man on the moon. Dick measuring contest or no, I'd prefer it to missiles that suffocate entire city blocks and bunker busters that make a big bang only to kill a colony of prairie dogs.
It'd also be nice to see all of these rocket scientists figuring out human payloads instead of explosive ones.
If you're gonna be staring at a darky's rat-disease infested, bloated corpse either way, you may as well be looking at it safely from the moon. Am I right, whitey?
People frown at the expense of putting a man on the moon, but shout a big 'fuck yeah' at weapons that blast entire villages to ash.
One of the last great points of pride this country has had is putting man on the moon. Dick measuring contest or no, I'd prefer it to missiles that suffocate entire city blocks and bunker busters that make a big bang only to kill a colony of prairie dogs.
It'd also be nice to see all of these rocket scientists figuring out human payloads instead of explosive ones.
If you're gonna be staring at a darky's rat-disease infested, bloated corpse either way, you may as well be looking at it safely from the moon. Am I right, whitey?
27
Don't blame space exploration for social policy ills. The two aren't connected and trying to link them is a big fat fucking distraction from the fact that both suffer deeply from the defense industry's massive irresistible money vortex.
I am continually baffled at how contemptuous people seem of the entire rest of the universe, as if space exploration were somehow masturbatory. It's like accusing people who leave their living rooms of being frivolous. There's incomparably more out there than there is in our tiny little world. "Lack of vision" is just... inadequate to describe how I feel about people's attitude here.
The fact that crazy old motherfucker Ronald Reagan wanted to put giant lasers in space doesn't mean that a space program is just about dick-waving, any more than the fact that he wanted to put giant lasers and missiles all over Europe means that European travel is about dick-waving. It just means that war-addicted assholes are war-addicted assholes.
I am continually baffled at how contemptuous people seem of the entire rest of the universe, as if space exploration were somehow masturbatory. It's like accusing people who leave their living rooms of being frivolous. There's incomparably more out there than there is in our tiny little world. "Lack of vision" is just... inadequate to describe how I feel about people's attitude here.
The fact that crazy old motherfucker Ronald Reagan wanted to put giant lasers in space doesn't mean that a space program is just about dick-waving, any more than the fact that he wanted to put giant lasers and missiles all over Europe means that European travel is about dick-waving. It just means that war-addicted assholes are war-addicted assholes.
28
Do you think there will ever be a day when some guy whose government rice bowl is getting broken doesn't defend it with statements about "all life as we know ending"?
Do you think there will ever be a day when some guy whose government rice bowl is getting broken doesn't defend it with statements about "all life as we know ending"?
29
@28:
To answer your presumably rhetorical question: "Yes. When every government's rice bowl everywhere is broken and there aren't any more rice bowls left to pilfer from."
To answer your presumably rhetorical question: "Yes. When every government's rice bowl everywhere is broken and there aren't any more rice bowls left to pilfer from."
30
NASA's budget is piddly compared to the amount of money blown on a number of other programs... notably defense.
There's plenty of justification for the space program out there, though you don't have to agree with it. I just wish it was as simple as reallocating moon-rocket money to fix social problems. Unfortunately it's not.
There's plenty of justification for the space program out there, though you don't have to agree with it. I just wish it was as simple as reallocating moon-rocket money to fix social problems. Unfortunately it's not.
32
Not to mention it's going to be a reallocation of funds within NASA and a focus on other stuff... speaking with NASA missions folks they're happy to do what they can with what they have (and some who don't think the Moon or Mars should be destinations for people etc. etc.)
Astronauts do tend to be a bit on the macho side and aren't the folks doing all the work and research, please don't take them for representatives of the space program as such.
You'd probably find that most folks in the space program would be glad to see more money allocated to social programs, but nobody likes to see their money go regardless of their line of work.
Astronauts do tend to be a bit on the macho side and aren't the folks doing all the work and research, please don't take them for representatives of the space program as such.
You'd probably find that most folks in the space program would be glad to see more money allocated to social programs, but nobody likes to see their money go regardless of their line of work.
33
14
In 8 years under Reagan the National debt increased $1.6 Trillion dollars.
Does that number sound familiar?
Sure it does....
It's how much Obama increases the national debt in just one year.
One. Year.
$6.8 Trillion?
That's how much your boy estimates he will increase the debt in 4 years.
When Reagan left office the debt was 50% of GDP.
When Obama leaves (in four years; after ONE term...) it will be
OVER 100% of GDP....
In 8 years under Reagan the National debt increased $1.6 Trillion dollars.
Does that number sound familiar?
Sure it does....
It's how much Obama increases the national debt in just one year.
One. Year.
$6.8 Trillion?
That's how much your boy estimates he will increase the debt in 4 years.
When Reagan left office the debt was 50% of GDP.
When Obama leaves (in four years; after ONE term...) it will be
OVER 100% of GDP....
34
14
oh- and btw
What kind of economy did Reagan inherit from Carter and the Democraps?
Remember the Misery Index?
The one Carter made such a big deal out of when he ram against Ford?
Inflation + Unemployment-
It was 15 under Ford.
yikes.
He lost the election.
(although he lowered the index 4 points from what it was when he took office...)
America misses Ford.
Carter?
He raised the Index.
To 22.
double yikes.
(served the arrogant asshole right...)
America doesn't miss Carter.
Yeah-
Reagan inherited a combined Inflation/Unemployment rate of 22% from Carter.
But he didn't spend 8 years whining about what he "Inherited".
He didn't spend 8 Minutes whining.
He dropped the Index by 11 points while he was in office.
America misses Reagan.
oh- and btw
What kind of economy did Reagan inherit from Carter and the Democraps?
Remember the Misery Index?
The one Carter made such a big deal out of when he ram against Ford?
Inflation + Unemployment-
It was 15 under Ford.
yikes.
He lost the election.
(although he lowered the index 4 points from what it was when he took office...)
America misses Ford.
Carter?
He raised the Index.
To 22.
double yikes.
(served the arrogant asshole right...)
America doesn't miss Carter.
Yeah-
Reagan inherited a combined Inflation/Unemployment rate of 22% from Carter.
But he didn't spend 8 years whining about what he "Inherited".
He didn't spend 8 Minutes whining.
He dropped the Index by 11 points while he was in office.
America misses Reagan.
35
14
Your boy Obama?
What did he "Inherit"?
The Misery Index was 7 when Obama took office.
(W actually dropped it about half a point, even counting the recession at the end...)
7.
What has Obama done with the Misery Index?
In one year he drove it up 5 points.
stay tuned...
Your boy Obama?
What did he "Inherit"?
The Misery Index was 7 when Obama took office.
(W actually dropped it about half a point, even counting the recession at the end...)
7.
What has Obama done with the Misery Index?
In one year he drove it up 5 points.
stay tuned...
36
What does Carter think of Obama?
During the Presidential campaign of 1976, Democratic candidate Jimmy Carter made frequent references to the Misery Index, which by the summer of 1976 was at 13%.
Carter stated that no man responsible for giving a country a misery index that high had a right to even ask to be President.
Obama's misery Index
at the end of his first year?
(drum roll ..................)
13. %.
(Carter won the 1976 election. However, by 1980, when President Carter was running for re-election the Misery Index had reached an all-time high of 22%. Carter lost the election.)
During the Presidential campaign of 1976, Democratic candidate Jimmy Carter made frequent references to the Misery Index, which by the summer of 1976 was at 13%.
Carter stated that no man responsible for giving a country a misery index that high had a right to even ask to be President.
Obama's misery Index
at the end of his first year?
(drum roll ..................)
13. %.
(Carter won the 1976 election. However, by 1980, when President Carter was running for re-election the Misery Index had reached an all-time high of 22%. Carter lost the election.)
37
Lucky for Carter the Misery Index didn't measure Interest rates...
Under Carter the Prime Rate jumped from 6% to 20%.
That's right.
Vince's hero Reagan
INHERITED
a 20% Prime Rate.
Of course he got it down.
Without whining. To 8%.
What Prime Rate did
Crybaby Obama Inherit?
3%.
Under Carter the Prime Rate jumped from 6% to 20%.
That's right.
Vince's hero Reagan
INHERITED
a 20% Prime Rate.
Of course he got it down.
Without whining. To 8%.
What Prime Rate did
Crybaby Obama Inherit?
3%.
38
Let's recapitulate!
Reagan increased the debt $1.6 Trillion.
ouch.
In return he
lowered interest rates 12%
and
lowered Unemployment/Inflation 11%.
(oh yeah, and beat the Shit out of the Soviet Union and won the Cold War...)
Thank You Ronnie.
We owe you...
Obama?
So far he has increased the debt $4.4 Trillion (and promises many more $Trillions to come...) and has INCREASED Unemployment/Inflation 5%.
?
wtf?...
I want my money back.
Reagan increased the debt $1.6 Trillion.
ouch.
In return he
lowered interest rates 12%
and
lowered Unemployment/Inflation 11%.
(oh yeah, and beat the Shit out of the Soviet Union and won the Cold War...)
Thank You Ronnie.
We owe you...
Obama?
So far he has increased the debt $4.4 Trillion (and promises many more $Trillions to come...) and has INCREASED Unemployment/Inflation 5%.
?
wtf?...
I want my money back.
39
In 2008 the national debt was $9.9 Trillion.
The debt limit was raised to $12.394 trillion by H.R. 4314, which was signed into law by Obama on December 24, 2009.
A further increase in the U.S. debt ceiling to $14.3 trillion by H.J.Res. 45 was sent to the president on February 4, 2010. President Barack Obama signed this ceiling of $14.3 trillion on February 12, 2010.
The debt limit was raised to $12.394 trillion by H.R. 4314, which was signed into law by Obama on December 24, 2009.
A further increase in the U.S. debt ceiling to $14.3 trillion by H.J.Res. 45 was sent to the president on February 4, 2010. President Barack Obama signed this ceiling of $14.3 trillion on February 12, 2010.
41
"if someone published "darkie on the …""
Actually, the old ditty was "Coon to the Moon by June".
Not that I would approve.
Actually, the old ditty was "Coon to the Moon by June".
Not that I would approve.
43
I'm not sure about solving social problems, but last time I checked we could use a little exploration in the realm of saving our own planet. Why not spend NASA bucks on ocean/ atmospheric science?
45
@33-39.
You neglected inflation. $1.6 trillion in 1984 (midpoint) of Reagan's reign would be $3.4 trillion today, much greater than Obama's current debt (which every economist says is needed to get out of a recession).
And the Cold War was "won" by George Bush Sr., not Ronald Reagan. But if you want to credit Reagan with stuff that came after his time, you're going to have him take responsibility for the tax increases that George Bush, Sr. had to pass in order to balance the debt that Ronnie left, too. I think that's something we can all agree on - we are going to have to have tax increases to balance the budget and erase the debt caused by our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
You neglected inflation. $1.6 trillion in 1984 (midpoint) of Reagan's reign would be $3.4 trillion today, much greater than Obama's current debt (which every economist says is needed to get out of a recession).
And the Cold War was "won" by George Bush Sr., not Ronald Reagan. But if you want to credit Reagan with stuff that came after his time, you're going to have him take responsibility for the tax increases that George Bush, Sr. had to pass in order to balance the debt that Ronnie left, too. I think that's something we can all agree on - we are going to have to have tax increases to balance the budget and erase the debt caused by our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
46
They were mad because they thought Obama was considering sending a black man to the moon until he yelled, "sieeeeeeeeeeeeke" amidst a flurry of high fives.
47
45
3.4 over 8 years is still less than Obama's debt for just 13 months, and Reagan INHERITED a worst economy.
Go ahead, raise taxes.
Doing before midterm elections, please...
3.4 over 8 years is still less than Obama's debt for just 13 months, and Reagan INHERITED a worst economy.
Go ahead, raise taxes.
Doing before midterm elections, please...
48
45
Although your boy did promise he wouldn't raise taxes on anyone under $250K, wasn't that it?
Did we read his lips correctly?....
Although your boy did promise he wouldn't raise taxes on anyone under $250K, wasn't that it?
Did we read his lips correctly?....
49
@ 45, thank you. Reagan never bothered to pay for his expenditures (as multiple non-Cato sources have pointed out); calling his economic policies responsible is just fiction. More than that, blaming Obama for the deficit is breathtakingly dishonest. Virtually every major economist agreed that the stimulus was necessary, and of course TARP spending and the stimulus bills started under Bush (http://tinyurl.com/yjga4gh). Bush inherited a surplus. It's as if under Bush, a healthy man came down with multiple infections. Obama came in, saw that some amputation was necessary, and is now attacked by pointing out that it wasn't until Obama that this guy lost a limb. Pay-as-you-go started under Clinton, ended under Bush, and was revived under Obama. Leave it to Orrin Hatch to point this out: http://tinyurl.com/yd27muv
So please, spare us the silliness.
So please, spare us the silliness.
50
45
Those wars are expensive.
Even if Afghanistan is a "War of Necessity"....
We should get out.
Right now.
RIGHT NOW.....
Those wars are expensive.
Even if Afghanistan is a "War of Necessity"....
We should get out.
Right now.
RIGHT NOW.....
51
49
"Pay-as-you-go ... was revived under Obama." ?!
WTF?
That is some powerful weed your tokin'-
please share....
Are you talking about
Barack "43¢ of Every Dollar I spend is borrowed" Obama?
The unemployment extension just in the news,
was that "pay as you go"?
Or was that exactly the point of the sole brave Republican who refused to play "business as borrowing as usual"...
"Pay-as-you-go ... was revived under Obama." ?!
WTF?
That is some powerful weed your tokin'-
please share....
Are you talking about
Barack "43¢ of Every Dollar I spend is borrowed" Obama?
The unemployment extension just in the news,
was that "pay as you go"?
Or was that exactly the point of the sole brave Republican who refused to play "business as borrowing as usual"...
52
Pay as You Blow-
The debt limit was raised to $12.394 trillion by H.R. 4314, which was signed into law by Obama on December 24, 2009.
A further increase in the U.S. debt ceiling to $14.3 trillion by H.J.Res. 45 was sent to the president on February 4, 2010. President Barack Obama signed this ceiling of $14.3 trillion on February 12, 2010.
The debt limit was raised to $12.394 trillion by H.R. 4314, which was signed into law by Obama on December 24, 2009.
A further increase in the U.S. debt ceiling to $14.3 trillion by H.J.Res. 45 was sent to the president on February 4, 2010. President Barack Obama signed this ceiling of $14.3 trillion on February 12, 2010.
53
49
"Obama came in, saw that some amputation was necessary, and is now attacked by pointing out that it wasn't until Obama that this guy lost a limb."
I think you've gotten Obama's Health Care Plan mixed in there, sport...
"Obama came in, saw that some amputation was necessary, and is now attacked by pointing out that it wasn't until Obama that this guy lost a limb."
I think you've gotten Obama's Health Care Plan mixed in there, sport...
55
54
nice link:
"ABC News' Sunlen Miller reports:
President Obama uses his weekly address to highlight the “pay-as-you-go” rule he signed into law Friday – within the bill which also raises federal debt limit to $14.3 trillion -- a number which Obama does not mention once during his address. "
Obama TALKS a good show- "to highlight the “pay-as-you-go” rule..."
but his ACTIONS speak LOUDER- "he signed into law Friday – the bill which also raises federal debt limit to $14.3 trillion"
but he ain't no Dummy- " a number which Obama does not mention once during his address. "
$14.3 trillion, that is.....
nice link:
"ABC News' Sunlen Miller reports:
President Obama uses his weekly address to highlight the “pay-as-you-go” rule he signed into law Friday – within the bill which also raises federal debt limit to $14.3 trillion -- a number which Obama does not mention once during his address. "
Obama TALKS a good show- "to highlight the “pay-as-you-go” rule..."
but his ACTIONS speak LOUDER- "he signed into law Friday – the bill which also raises federal debt limit to $14.3 trillion"
but he ain't no Dummy- " a number which Obama does not mention once during his address. "
$14.3 trillion, that is.....
56
How long did Obama's commitment to PayGo last?
The Unemployment Extension passed last week was not paid for.
The Unemployment Extension passed last week was not paid for.
57
Oh, I can't resist the trolls:
No, the economy that George Bush, Jr. left for Obama is MUCH worse than the economy that Ronald Reagan inherited...the inflation under Carter caused by the '79 Oil Embargo was temporary (once Ronnie bribed the Iranians to keep the hostages until Carter lost). It wasn't until after Ronnie's policies had "worked" a few years that his deregulation caused banks (S&P's ) to fail and cost taxpayers billions in bailouts.....pretty similar to George W., actually.
....and as for Reagan's war record, he:
1) Sold weapons of mass destruction to Saddam Hussein
2) Had the CIA teach Osama bin Laden how to blow up buildings
3) Turned tail and ran when terrorists blew up our marines in Lebanon.
Ronald Reagan, Patron Saint of Terrorism.
....
No, the economy that George Bush, Jr. left for Obama is MUCH worse than the economy that Ronald Reagan inherited...the inflation under Carter caused by the '79 Oil Embargo was temporary (once Ronnie bribed the Iranians to keep the hostages until Carter lost). It wasn't until after Ronnie's policies had "worked" a few years that his deregulation caused banks (S&P's ) to fail and cost taxpayers billions in bailouts.....pretty similar to George W., actually.
....and as for Reagan's war record, he:
1) Sold weapons of mass destruction to Saddam Hussein
2) Had the CIA teach Osama bin Laden how to blow up buildings
3) Turned tail and ran when terrorists blew up our marines in Lebanon.
Ronald Reagan, Patron Saint of Terrorism.
....
58
dude why did this comment section turn into "crazy minimum wage earning libertarians who think they understand complex economic policy" time?
60
Question for you all you "Obama gonna spendz allz ourz moneyz!" types out there:
How much did you-all scream and shout when Reagan took us from being the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation?
How much did you-all scream and shout when shrub squandered the budget surplus created under the Clinton Administration, and sent us spiraling into massive debt with his tax breaks to the wealthy and unnecessary war in Iraq?
Oh, right. You didn't make a peep, you just sat there watching FAUX (S)nooz and swallowing Cheney's line about how "deficits don't matter".
But, all of a sudden, when Obama is forced by the actions of the previous GOP Administration to go into deficit spending to bring the free-falling economy under control, NOW you've "seen the light" and all we hear dripping out of your slavering pie-holes is squeals of rage over the current administration's "fiscal irresponsibility".
What a laugh! If your abject hypocrisy weren't so blatant and bald-faced I'd almost feel sorry for your inability to grasp a concept that just about every major economist has stated was the ONLY way to arrest the downward momentum of the economic quagmire created in large part by the profligate spending of your beloved little boy Bush.
If a Republican president spends us into the ground, eviscerating our economy in the process, you don't have a thing to say in protest. It's only when a Democratic president spends us into the ground to FIX the problems Republicans create that you-all get yer boxers twisted.
Funny how that works, isn't it?
How much did you-all scream and shout when Reagan took us from being the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation?
How much did you-all scream and shout when shrub squandered the budget surplus created under the Clinton Administration, and sent us spiraling into massive debt with his tax breaks to the wealthy and unnecessary war in Iraq?
Oh, right. You didn't make a peep, you just sat there watching FAUX (S)nooz and swallowing Cheney's line about how "deficits don't matter".
But, all of a sudden, when Obama is forced by the actions of the previous GOP Administration to go into deficit spending to bring the free-falling economy under control, NOW you've "seen the light" and all we hear dripping out of your slavering pie-holes is squeals of rage over the current administration's "fiscal irresponsibility".
What a laugh! If your abject hypocrisy weren't so blatant and bald-faced I'd almost feel sorry for your inability to grasp a concept that just about every major economist has stated was the ONLY way to arrest the downward momentum of the economic quagmire created in large part by the profligate spending of your beloved little boy Bush.
If a Republican president spends us into the ground, eviscerating our economy in the process, you don't have a thing to say in protest. It's only when a Democratic president spends us into the ground to FIX the problems Republicans create that you-all get yer boxers twisted.
Funny how that works, isn't it?
61
now chris,
you need to hang out with a better class of economists.
every major economist with a brain will tell you that the levels of debt Obama is projecting will cripple the economy.
do you know how much interest alone will be on the $19 Trillion debt Obama projects his budgets to rack up by the end of his term?
and arguing that Reagan was worse is really not any response at all, now is it...
you need to hang out with a better class of economists.
every major economist with a brain will tell you that the levels of debt Obama is projecting will cripple the economy.
do you know how much interest alone will be on the $19 Trillion debt Obama projects his budgets to rack up by the end of his term?
and arguing that Reagan was worse is really not any response at all, now is it...
62
Bullshit@61: they've been saying exactly the opposite.
They've said it here
here
here
here
here
here
here
And especially here, where several of the most noted economists who lined up behind the Cato Institute in saying ARRA wouldn't work, have now indicated that, um, yeah, actually it DID. And that in fact, they really didn't know WTF they were talking about when they said it wouldn't in the first place.
Thanks for playing though, we'll send you the home version of the game...
More...
They've said it here
here
here
here
here
here
here
And especially here, where several of the most noted economists who lined up behind the Cato Institute in saying ARRA wouldn't work, have now indicated that, um, yeah, actually it DID. And that in fact, they really didn't know WTF they were talking about when they said it wouldn't in the first place.
Thanks for playing though, we'll send you the home version of the game...
64
62
What?!
You mean, if you Google
"Economist Support Obama Stimulus"
you get SIX hits??!!?!!!!
I'm shocked.
SHOCKED!
What?!
You mean, if you Google
"Economist Support Obama Stimulus"
you get SIX hits??!!?!!!!
I'm shocked.
SHOCKED!
66
We all know all these idiotic unregistered comments are all coming from the same idiot troll, right?
Idiot.
Idiot.
68
@64:
No, those were just the first few of the 20,800,000 search results - must be a LOT of economists supporting ARRA to get those kind of hits, eh?
And whether one looks them up in a book, a newspaper morgue, Lexis-Nexis, or Google, in the end it really doesn't matter where the citations are sourced. What DOES matter is that, except for the handful of economists still too busy goggling the Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation's knobs, the rest have been convinced (some admittedly, begrudgingly) that ARRA is working, that it has pulled the economy out of the nose-dive shrub's policies put it in (yet another testament to his lack of piloting proficiency), that the rate of job losses have decreased significantly, that our GDP is growing, that our trade deficit is shrinking, and we are edging, slowly but with more certainty each and every day, back up to a positive economic forecast once again.
So, continue with your muelling and puking, you poor little whiny tittie-babies. You can deny the facts all you want - it's one of the few things you have any skill at anyway - while those of us in the reality-based community will continue to ignore your impotent, puerile caterwauling.
No, those were just the first few of the 20,800,000 search results - must be a LOT of economists supporting ARRA to get those kind of hits, eh?
And whether one looks them up in a book, a newspaper morgue, Lexis-Nexis, or Google, in the end it really doesn't matter where the citations are sourced. What DOES matter is that, except for the handful of economists still too busy goggling the Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation's knobs, the rest have been convinced (some admittedly, begrudgingly) that ARRA is working, that it has pulled the economy out of the nose-dive shrub's policies put it in (yet another testament to his lack of piloting proficiency), that the rate of job losses have decreased significantly, that our GDP is growing, that our trade deficit is shrinking, and we are edging, slowly but with more certainty each and every day, back up to a positive economic forecast once again.
So, continue with your muelling and puking, you poor little whiny tittie-babies. You can deny the facts all you want - it's one of the few things you have any skill at anyway - while those of us in the reality-based community will continue to ignore your impotent, puerile caterwauling.
69
Oh, and I'm STILL waiting to hear what barricades YOU were storming when shrub started his campaign to give hundreds of billions in tax breaks to his wealthy friends, to flush our economy down the toilet, and to send your kids off to get the shit blown out of them for no good reason in Iraq.
But, I figure that's going to be a very long wait, so you'll excuse me if I don't stick around to view your evasions and obfuscations on that particular point.
But, I figure that's going to be a very long wait, so you'll excuse me if I don't stick around to view your evasions and obfuscations on that particular point.
70
I thought the Saudi's were responsible for bringing the USSR to its knees when they started pumping oil at maximum volume, dropping the prices to the floor, thus defunding the Soviet state. T'weren't old Ronnie Raygun who did that. But US propaganda.
http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.25…
72
Actually, @67, the proper spelling is 'moran', get a brain. You must not have learned a thing as a studnet.
73
Everybody who hasn't seen it yet should watch the short mockumentary "The Old Negro Space Program." It's on YouTube.
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