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News & ArtsMonday, March 1, 2010
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Topped Out
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:32 PM
In your recent column you talk about issues with anal sex. I need your advice with an issue similar to the one NEA was having.I'm a gay 20 year old with a boyfriend of almost two years. We're each others first real relationship and we've had so much fun and we're so in love and blah blah blah. However, we broke up 3 months ago but got back together within hours. The issue that broke us up, the only real issue, is that we're not sexually compatible.
He's an exclusive top and I'm versatile but neither of us had enough sexual experience to have known that when we began our relationship. We started with him just topping and no issues came up until I wanted to fuck him. He didn't want to but I eventually got him to try it. We tried and it hurt him too bad. I discovered after a couple of tries that he had a few hemmorhoids which I immediately blamed for the pain he was experiencing and eventually got him to have them removed. After the hemmorhoids were removed, I figured I could fuck him no problem. Not the case. I've got a sizeable girth and he blamed that for the pain. So, just like you advised ANAL, we bought toys to try and lessen the pain for him. It was a tough situation. We tried to sexualize the dildos but neither of us could get into it. It took him a while to prepare everything which made it difficult to stay into the whole thing over a 10-25 minute ordeal. But we did discover that using the dildos DID help ease the pain. So, after a large amount of work, we were able to develop a routine where I could fuck him every once in a while with a relative amount of comfort for both of us.
When we broke up, he confessed that he hated taking it because it caused him so much pain. In fact, he expressed that sometimes he would get scared when we were messing around because he thought i might want to end up fucking him. He was afraid of me fucking him. When we got back together, he had said that he would no longer take it because he shouldn't be afraid of sex. I agree. He shouldn't be afraid of sex but don't I have a right to get my sexual needs met without compromising on monogamy? I don't want to end our relationship but I don't want to have an unfulfilling sex life either.
Anal Sex Situation
My response after the jump...
Do you have right to get your sexual needs met?
In a word, ASS: no. No, you don't.
You do have a right to try and get your sexual needs met, ASS, and it sounds like you've tried and tried and tried. But at this stage it's clear—or it should to be clear—that you can't have your boyfriend and top him too. So you're either going to have to compromise on your sexual needs (going without topping) or compromise on monogamy (you can top other guys).
Some guys don't/can't bottom, ASS, and the boy you're in love with is one of those guys. If you want to be with him, be with him. If you don't, don't. But not being able to top is the price of admission here, ASS, i.e. it's the price you'll have to pay to ride this ride. If you don't want to pay that price—if topping is too important to you—then you'll have to get off this ride.
And for the record: not even people who "compromise on monogamy" get all their sexual needs met. No one gets everything he wants. No one is 100% fulfilled sexually or otherwise, no one avoids paying some price or making some sacrifice to be with the person he loves. True love—lasting love, ASS, monogamous or not—requires compromise.
3
I feel for the BF in that relationship. I've been there... in fact, I'm still with the guy who is more versatile than I'll ever be. We sacrificed monogamy to make sure we could both be as fulfilled as possible.
I'm fine as long as I know that I am the relationship and anyone else he fucks is just a fuck, maybe a FWB, and he gets to top when he really wants to. Sometimes, I work my ass ahead of time, and do my best to get ready so that he can top me, but those times are few and far between.
I'm fine as long as I know that I am the relationship and anyone else he fucks is just a fuck, maybe a FWB, and he gets to top when he really wants to. Sometimes, I work my ass ahead of time, and do my best to get ready so that he can top me, but those times are few and far between.
4
Keep trying - the BF will get to some better zone with time. He can't fear you. But get him to relax, try some grass, warmed lube, wine and just a whiff of good poppers.
And slow and tender - crooning, kissing, and so, so loving. Make sure he is just plain horny as well.
More work to do, then he will whimper and whine for it - ask older gay men who like to fuck and to get fucked.
Some of us have hardly any oral desires yeah, the truth. So, we get expert at the ass stuff.
Good luck.
And slow and tender - crooning, kissing, and so, so loving. Make sure he is just plain horny as well.
More work to do, then he will whimper and whine for it - ask older gay men who like to fuck and to get fucked.
Some of us have hardly any oral desires yeah, the truth. So, we get expert at the ass stuff.
Good luck.
5
Sometimes, it just doesn't work, physically, either from expectations from one or both partners, mechanics, or other things.
When that occurs, no matter what loop you're stuck in justifying the relationship, you need to move on.
For both of you.
When that occurs, no matter what loop you're stuck in justifying the relationship, you need to move on.
For both of you.
7
Reassuring to know that even some gay dudes find receiving the buttsecks extremely unpleasant/painful too. Gay dudes always seem to make it like it's sooooo pleasurable to receive, what with the prostate and all.
Any guy who wants to try entering my straight girl back door had better be willing to get down on all fours and get pegged by me just the same. Quit yer whinin' already, straight boys, lest you want a giant surprise in your pooper too.
Any guy who wants to try entering my straight girl back door had better be willing to get down on all fours and get pegged by me just the same. Quit yer whinin' already, straight boys, lest you want a giant surprise in your pooper too.
9
I agree. Maybe you could try a three way with a guy who can bottom, but your boyfriend is not going to be that guy. Leave his ass alone and maybe someday he'll want to try again but until then don't pressure him or expect him to change. You are lucky. Be grateful you have a boyfriend who was willing to go through so much for you. Now back off.
10
Also: did the writer ever try and figure out if his boyfriend was allergic to latex? Storytime: a few months ago I was fucking this adorable bottom who informed me that he was allergic to latex. When asked how he found out he said it would sting like hell when he was fucked- as if the dick was tearing something. And it didn't matter how big the dick was. That sounded exactly like what happened to me so I went out and bought a latex condom and a polysoprene (Lifestyles Skyn) condom and tested both out on my ass with a dildo. The difference was night and fucking day. The latex condom dildo couldn't even get an inch in without a lot of pain while the polysoprene condom went in with minimal fuss and felt fantastic. It turns out what I thought was tearing was my ass swelling up and getting nasty red with contact with the latex. Something to think about.
12
I myself have a hard time bottoming for my guy, but he's also hung like a frickin' mule. That's why I can't understand why gay men are so obsessed with size - it seems like (up to a point) the more average sized the wang, the easier the ass fuck. But what do I know?
13
Dan: would you give the same advice to a hetero man whose female partner refused anal after repeated tries? or would you castigate her for not being GGG enough? My point, I guess, is that women are presumed bottoms and need to justify not liking anal, whereas gay men get a pass it seems if they call themselves exclusive tops.
14
"don't I have a right to get my sexual needs met without compromising on monogamy? "
I think ASS is asking "Don't I have a right to fuck other dudes without granting my partner the right to fuck other dudes?" Correct me if I'm wrong.
I think ASS is asking "Don't I have a right to fuck other dudes without granting my partner the right to fuck other dudes?" Correct me if I'm wrong.
16
@ 13
"Dan: would you give the same advice to a hetero man whose female partner refused anal after repeated tries?"
He did, in last week's column.
"Dan: would you give the same advice to a hetero man whose female partner refused anal after repeated tries?"
He did, in last week's column.
18
Why not, as a special treat, have a three-way once in a while where you bring in a hot bottom and both of you fuck his brains out?
19
Curious about what seems here like an either/or full penetration/no touchee dichotomy. Partner doesn't even like lubed-little-finger-first-joint-in-the-pooper or simple pucker-petting as orgasm approaches? Nobody I've ever been with has been wired that way, though I'm always willing to allow the possibility.
23
@ 7, you sound like waaaaay too much drama and hassle, and just a bit full of yourself. I'll skip the "secks," butt or otherwise, with you, thanks very much.
24
I agree with Dan's advice, but there's something in the letter that raised a red flag for me...
When we broke up, he confessed that he hated taking it because it caused him so much pain. In fact, he expressed that sometimes he would get scared when we were messing around because he thought i might want to end up fucking him. He was afraid of me fucking him.
Now, I know that this is the first real relationship for both of them and all, but am I the only one that sees this as a speedbump down the road? That one of them was too afraid to talk about the pain until they were breaking up, and was afraid of being fucked as a result? Now, maybe it's just their approach to anal sex. Maybe.
But I'm seeing potential trust issues here, whether it's a matter of "I'd rather just put up with the problem while we're having this relationship" or "I don't feel like I can talk to you about this problem" or something similar. Am I just seeing things?
When we broke up, he confessed that he hated taking it because it caused him so much pain. In fact, he expressed that sometimes he would get scared when we were messing around because he thought i might want to end up fucking him. He was afraid of me fucking him.
Now, I know that this is the first real relationship for both of them and all, but am I the only one that sees this as a speedbump down the road? That one of them was too afraid to talk about the pain until they were breaking up, and was afraid of being fucked as a result? Now, maybe it's just their approach to anal sex. Maybe.
But I'm seeing potential trust issues here, whether it's a matter of "I'd rather just put up with the problem while we're having this relationship" or "I don't feel like I can talk to you about this problem" or something similar. Am I just seeing things?
25
/related/
Hey are dudes who take it up the ass still considered "virgins" by the "Purity" people?
I've suddenly got a new pitch for the college crowd.
Hey are dudes who take it up the ass still considered "virgins" by the "Purity" people?
I've suddenly got a new pitch for the college crowd.
27
I could've written this letter. The bf and I have occasional 3-ways with vers/bottom guys (if he gets to fuck someone else, then they can fuck me too, so added bonus!) It works great for us.
28
ok, i love the gays. like seriously. but i get sooooo sympathy skeeved when i hear stories like this...has anyone here ever had hemmrhoid removal surgery? its the WORST. i hope to jeebus that bf just got em frozen off. I have had said surgery, have all manner of IBD problems and as a het girl i can just you know, close that ramp to any incoming traffic without much problems...but man i feel awful for gay dudes with 'roids. i know anal isnt the only thing y'all do but....auuugh my rectum is sympathy hurting for this guy.
30
@25- OA-
Dan et al call what you asked about "Brownbacking- the act of remaining a 'virgin' for abstinince-only/Religious purposes, while still fucking". Coined during the '08 Obama/Brownback debacle, and hopefully at an Urban Dictionary near you.
Dan et al call what you asked about "Brownbacking- the act of remaining a 'virgin' for abstinince-only/Religious purposes, while still fucking". Coined during the '08 Obama/Brownback debacle, and hopefully at an Urban Dictionary near you.
31
What @19 said. Get your man horny, and I mean horny, blow him until he almost comes, give him a hot back massage, then lick his balls and rim his ass really well, then start slowly playing with his ass, lots of lube, with just a finger or so, mostly on the outside. And, yes, slow, cock-teasing-hole "cheeky-fucking" with lots more lube is good. Then just stop, go piss and get a drink of water while he's waiting. And waiting. Do that a couple of nights a week for a couple of weeks and he'll be begging for it. And if he's not, then he really isn't into it, and you're back to Dan's choices.
32
I don't have a dick to top anybody, but if someone confessed to me after more than a year that I had been hurting him with my dick and they were afraid of sex because of it, I would feel really, really horrible.
Is the bf just naturally THAT timid, complacent and neglectful of his own feelings? Because I would be very, very worried about that attitude in a partner. What if it turns out that he hasn't just been enduring anal with gritted teeth for your sake, but also your guys' favorite restaurant, your best friend or your camping vacations?
Dump this guy. He needs to learn how to take care of himself, and he can't take care of anyone else till he can do that.
Is the bf just naturally THAT timid, complacent and neglectful of his own feelings? Because I would be very, very worried about that attitude in a partner. What if it turns out that he hasn't just been enduring anal with gritted teeth for your sake, but also your guys' favorite restaurant, your best friend or your camping vacations?
Dump this guy. He needs to learn how to take care of himself, and he can't take care of anyone else till he can do that.
33
You might figure out this grand, cosmic mystery if you put down the snickers bar for a minute or two.
gosh it seems like if biology made someone innately homosexual it would give them a fuckable hole
You might figure out this grand, cosmic mystery if you put down the snickers bar for a minute or two.
34
woah. ASS is kinda forgiven cuz he is so young, but it sounds like he put his bf trough some serious pain. i think i would have dumped ASS a long time ago if i was the bf.
35
I'm thinking that ASS sounds kind of like, well, an ASS, as many people have suggested here, but he does get a teensy bit of slack for his insensitivity based on his youth. 20-year-olds are in general narcissistic brats. In any case, having had a few traumatizing experiences at that age as a 20-year-old hetero female, I can pretty much guarantee that much of this is psychological for the boyfriend. He's psyching himself out, and ASS's insensitivity and impatience are just making it worse. They should probably start over with other people, given their ages though. The bf needs to be more assertive and ASS needs to learn to tune into his significant others' feelings. When someone's not enjoying anal sex and they're in excruciating pain, it's not hard to figure out.f
36
Dump ASS's ass. Nothing worse than a top who thinks he's entitled to that hole whenever he wants in. I've been through this with a guy I dated for two-plus years. We had great sex, but he was totally fuckcentric, and frankly sometimes you want to do something besides fuck. He would throw a fit if he didn't get in there when he wanted. It was like I was a beast for denying him. So for a good long while, just to avoid the drama, we would do it three or four times a day sometimes. But I didn't want my ass to be totally used-up and spent when the inevitable happened and we split. There's a lot to love about true tops -- but they do get entitled. And they can be as clueless as straight guys sometimes.
37
You know what? I think I know where ASS is coming from (so to speak). Sexual incompatibility is always a source of tension, and when one partner refuses to compromise even a little, it's really time to end the relationship. He does have a right to fuck as well as be fucked. That is a fact.
Sorry, Dan -- this is an unsalvageable situation, and both guys will be a lot better off parting ways. Particularly since (as suggested in comment 24) there are obviously some serious trust and communication failures in the offing.
Sorry, Dan -- this is an unsalvageable situation, and both guys will be a lot better off parting ways. Particularly since (as suggested in comment 24) there are obviously some serious trust and communication failures in the offing.
39
ASS is not a top who thinks he's entitled to a hole whenever he wants it, he is a versatile guy who likes to be on top some of the time. That's not uncommon, and not unreasonable. That doesn't mean his bf is a jerk - some guys are total tops whether by preference, or because they really really have problems bottoming. There's nothing wrong with that either. But they aren't sexually compatible and over time it's likely to be frustrating and unfulfilling for both of them. The aforementioned trust issues are of particular concern here. I wouldn't agree that there's not been a willingness to compromise, both partners seem to have tried, but they just aren't compatible. Dan's advise is solid and a good reality check - we try but even with compromise, with or without monogamy, nobody gets 100% of everything they want. Reality is what it is. Reality is also that some guys are better off as friends (and perhaps even fuck buddies) than as partners because of basic incompatibility issues.
41
Since no one else picked up on it, I guess I was wrong and ASS doesn't think he has a right to get some ass on the side without granting his partner the same right. In which case he thinks he has a right to... fuck his partner in the ass even though it hurts him, traumatizes him and makes him scared of even making out?! Jesus, some people are douche bags.
42
What is it about being a man that simplifies and categorizes sex? Guys seem to figure out so clearly what they like and don't like. These young guys are just figuring those things out for themselves. I was too when I was 20, and my sexual preferences have evolved since then. Sometimes a particular act sounds good, sometimes not, etc, varying for me over the years and over my partners.
I just don't get it!!! How is it that one of my gay guy friends doesn't suck dick or play with anyone's asshole (or let anyone visit his asshole), ever. He accepts blowjobs and hand jobs and he gives hand jobs and that is IT for him. Boring! Are gay guys more accommodating than straight guys? I wouldn't get very far if I went around trying to find straight guys interested only in eating/touching pussy and receiving hand jobs... or would I?
I just don't get it!!! How is it that one of my gay guy friends doesn't suck dick or play with anyone's asshole (or let anyone visit his asshole), ever. He accepts blowjobs and hand jobs and he gives hand jobs and that is IT for him. Boring! Are gay guys more accommodating than straight guys? I wouldn't get very far if I went around trying to find straight guys interested only in eating/touching pussy and receiving hand jobs... or would I?
43
37, I think when you say "He *does* have a right to fuck as well as be fucked", you're using "right" in a different way than Dan and many of the other commenters here. He doesn't have a "right" in the sense that his boyfriend has to either provide ass-fucking or an ass-fucking loophole in an otherwise monogamous relationship. But he does have a "right" to end the relationship on account of sexual incompatibility, and it doesn't make him a bad guy if he exercises that right. Unfortunately, his choice is between missing out on a sex act that he enjoys or ending the relationship. Neither of those choices is perfect, but both are on the table, and if he chooses the second one, he's not a dick. (If he keeps the relationship going *and* keeps pressuring his boyfriend for the anal sex that boyfriend has made clear he does not want, then he is a dick. Sorry, but in life we all have to make choices, and that's the choice he has. Two non-dick options and one dick option.)
I also want to say something to ASS's boyfriend--since I do not believe it's possible that a 20-something gay guy's boyfriend can write to Savage Love about him without someone bringing to his attention that the letter is about him, I'll assume he's reading. Dude, you did one thing wrong here: you put up with ass-fucking that scared you for two years without saying anything about it. You also did two things right: you made a sincere effort to try to learn to like a sex act that you weren't into but your partner was, and you (eventually) figured out how to express your needs. Both are important sex and relationship skills that will likely benefit you for far longer than the span of a relationship that began in college. It can really suck that when you do everything right in terms of expressing your needs, things still don't always work out. If you really hate getting fucked, don't back down on this issue--there will be other relationships. And if your boyfriend chooses the Dick Option from above--keeping the relationship going and pressuring you to bottom--DTMF. (I won't add the "A" for "already," because he hasn't done anything dump-worthy yet.)
More...
I also want to say something to ASS's boyfriend--since I do not believe it's possible that a 20-something gay guy's boyfriend can write to Savage Love about him without someone bringing to his attention that the letter is about him, I'll assume he's reading. Dude, you did one thing wrong here: you put up with ass-fucking that scared you for two years without saying anything about it. You also did two things right: you made a sincere effort to try to learn to like a sex act that you weren't into but your partner was, and you (eventually) figured out how to express your needs. Both are important sex and relationship skills that will likely benefit you for far longer than the span of a relationship that began in college. It can really suck that when you do everything right in terms of expressing your needs, things still don't always work out. If you really hate getting fucked, don't back down on this issue--there will be other relationships. And if your boyfriend chooses the Dick Option from above--keeping the relationship going and pressuring you to bottom--DTMF. (I won't add the "A" for "already," because he hasn't done anything dump-worthy yet.)
44
Oh, dear, I hate to disagree with Dan. My 50 yr old bf fucks me twice a day, everyday, and I am 100% sexually satisfied. Had to brag.
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