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News & ArtsSaturday, February 27, 2010
Health / Politics Seattle To Blame For Tea Party
Posted by Dan Savage on Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 10:39 AM
Well, a Seattle math teacher and improv actress is to blame:
Keli Carender has a pierced nose, performs improv on weekends and lives here in a neighborhood with more Mexican groceries than coffeehouses. You might mistake her for the kind of young person whose vote powered President Obama to the White House. You probably would not think of her as a Tea Party type. But leaders of the Tea Party movement credit her with being the first.A year ago, frustrated that every time she called her senators to urge them to vote against the $787 billion stimulus bill their mailboxes were full, and tired of wearing out the ear of her Obama-voting fiancé, Ms. Carender decided to hold a protest against what she called the “porkulus.”
She's a teacher, a National Review reader, and an idiot:
In a video viewed 68,000 times on YouTube, she confronted Representative Norm Dicks, Democrat of Washington, at a town-hall-style meeting on health care. “If you believe that it is absolutely moral to take my money and give it to someone else based on their supposed needs,” she said, waving a $20 bill to boos and cheers, “then you come and take this $20 and use it as a down payment on this health care plan.”Ms. Carender is less certain when it comes to explaining, for instance, how to cut the deficit without cutting Medicaid and Medicare.
“Well,” she said, thinking for a long time and then sighing. “Let’s see. Some days I’m very Randian. I feel like there shouldn’t be any of those programs, that it should all be charitable organizations. Sometimes I think, well, maybe it really should be just state, and there should be no federal part in it at all. I bounce around in my solutions to the problem.”
- Keli and Advisors
And the story doesn't mention where Keli Carender teaches. (She performs with Jet City Improv.) Is she a city, state, or federal employee? It's a relevant detail. Most Americans get their health insurance through their employers and if Carender is a city, state, or federal employee, then its likely that her job comes with tax-payer-financed health-insurance benefits. And if she is a government employee, and her workplace does offer taxpayer-financed health benefits, has Carender refused her goverment-funded heath insurance? Has she opted to purchase much more expensive health insurance on the open market? Is she living by the Randian values she seeks to impose on us all? Or is she a hypocrite?
NYT readers have a right to know if Ms. Carender practices what she preaches or if her support for a "Randian" social compact ends where her own health-care needs begin.
UPDATE: Dom wrote up one of Carender's first Tea Party rallies last April:
The event organizer, Keli Carender (who blogs under the name Liberty Belle), staged a call to Representative Jim McDermott's office to say his constituents were upset about the state of things. She was outraged when nobody answered the phone, asking the media to take note that nobody answered the phone! It was 6:30 p.m.
UPDATE 2: JohnnyC nail it in the comments thread...
Interesting that this profile pretty much proves that the Tea Baggers are just pissed off Republicans:1. Keli called the stimulus "porkulus"—just like Rush Limbaugh
2. She was a member of the Young Republicans.
3. She sought help to boost her profile from Michael Medved and Michelle Malkin—hardly names that those "not interested in politics" are familiar with.
4. She read up on economics at National Review
5. teamed up with Republican Dick Armey
6. she apparently sat silently by while Bush ran up the dept, even passing a trillion dollar unfunded new Medicare entitlement.This woman is a Republican pretending to be someone previously uninterested in politics. In short a fraud.
1
According to Publicola, Carender teaches math to low-income adults. She works with poor people, yet advocates policies that might put her students in a refrigerator box under the freeway. Figures ..
7
Uh, bullshit. The Ron Paul-ers beat her to it by a longshot. There's nothing unique about her aping the actual Libertarian "movement". Not that I'm 100% fond of him or them, but these crop of conservatives are wholly unoriginal.
8
"...those gloriously Randian days of poor houses, debtors prisons, and the elderly starving in the streets!"
boo. hoo.
Dan, do you know what Seattle will look like when the Federal Government is bankrupt?
When China nor anyone else will loan the US another $Trillion hit to keep the Welfare State afloat 3 more months?
When, at the 22% interest rates the US will then be paying the national debt eats up $3.2 Trillion every year just in Interest?
The tsunami would be quicker and more merciful...
boo. hoo.
Dan, do you know what Seattle will look like when the Federal Government is bankrupt?
When China nor anyone else will loan the US another $Trillion hit to keep the Welfare State afloat 3 more months?
When, at the 22% interest rates the US will then be paying the national debt eats up $3.2 Trillion every year just in Interest?
The tsunami would be quicker and more merciful...
9
The federal government going bankrupt would be a disaster! Society would collapse!
Therefore, dismantle the federal government.
Therefore, dismantle the federal government.
10
@3 @4 There's a reason why the small/medium business sector is more vibrant in Europe (65 percent vs 46 percent in 2002 - see
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17726
for the first thing that I came up with - lots more out there.
)
Not having to deal with insurance companies as defenseless small groups does wonders for your bottom line.
Carender is a great exemplar of what I call "intellectual entitlement" - people who are lazy-headed blithering idiots but think they should have the same right to make policy that hard-thinking studied smart folk do.
And she's so dumb and self-absorbed that she hasn't even noticed that her movement has been pwned by the corporate right from the get go.
It'd be funny if only these people had had the decency to have been born in a parallel dimension and beamed back their sorry tales to us as entertainment rather than living in our fucking country. Sigh.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17726
for the first thing that I came up with - lots more out there.
)
Not having to deal with insurance companies as defenseless small groups does wonders for your bottom line.
Carender is a great exemplar of what I call "intellectual entitlement" - people who are lazy-headed blithering idiots but think they should have the same right to make policy that hard-thinking studied smart folk do.
And she's so dumb and self-absorbed that she hasn't even noticed that her movement has been pwned by the corporate right from the get go.
It'd be funny if only these people had had the decency to have been born in a parallel dimension and beamed back their sorry tales to us as entertainment rather than living in our fucking country. Sigh.
11
Dan, are you aware of how underfunded Medicare and Medicaid already are?
(if they were private entities they would be declared bankrupt and the con men who invented and run them would be imprisoned for the massive Ponzi Scam)
Of the $74 Trillions unfunded obligations?
Yes, Trillions.
With a "T".
Do you really advocate throwing another 50 million people into a new government health care entitlement program?
Did you know that 43¢ of every dollar Obama spends is borrowed from China?
snark is cheap.
It doesn't pay the bills, however....
(if they were private entities they would be declared bankrupt and the con men who invented and run them would be imprisoned for the massive Ponzi Scam)
Of the $74 Trillions unfunded obligations?
Yes, Trillions.
With a "T".
Do you really advocate throwing another 50 million people into a new government health care entitlement program?
Did you know that 43¢ of every dollar Obama spends is borrowed from China?
snark is cheap.
It doesn't pay the bills, however....
12
10
silly boy.
the US is going to hell fast, for sure, but not even the Europeans would argue that Europe is a friendlier environment for small business (or any other kind of business except government owned monopolies...)
silly boy.
the US is going to hell fast, for sure, but not even the Europeans would argue that Europe is a friendlier environment for small business (or any other kind of business except government owned monopolies...)
14
Rabblerousing has become so fashionable now, no? Everybody seems to be doing it. Take issues too complicated for the uneducated and badly-educated to keep up on. Withhold nice chunks of what you recognize is true (balance don't pay for shit, much less get you famous) select some half-truths to inflate, add charisma and a few media brownnosers, and stir.
It's what most of us around here think is public discourse.
It's what most of us around here think is public discourse.
15
Oh #2, we are all so very tired of the disagree-with-her-by-attacking-her-looks posts.
Please cease and desist.
And yes, she is a hypocritical idiot. It seems to be a fairly common thing here in the West by the way. I am so very tired of ranchers who get federal subsidies and loggers who harvest trees out of our national forests on roads the feds built complaining about taxes and gummint.
Please cease and desist.
And yes, she is a hypocritical idiot. It seems to be a fairly common thing here in the West by the way. I am so very tired of ranchers who get federal subsidies and loggers who harvest trees out of our national forests on roads the feds built complaining about taxes and gummint.
16
So sad. So sad to see all that energy and passion directed towards such a bad cause. Teabaggers make me weep for America.
17
Interesting that this profile pretty much proves that the Tea Baggers are just pissed off Republicans:
1. Keli called the stimulus "porkulus" - just like Rush Limbaugh
2. She was a member of the Young Republicans.
3. She sought help to boost her profile from Michael Medved and Michelle Malkin - hardly names that those "not interested in politics" are familiar with.
4. She read up on economics at National Review
5. teamed up with Republican Dick Armey
6. she apparently sat silently by while Bush ran up the dept, even passing a trillion dollar unfunded new Medicare entitlement.
This woman is a Republican pretending to be someone previously uninterested in politics. In short a fraud.
1. Keli called the stimulus "porkulus" - just like Rush Limbaugh
2. She was a member of the Young Republicans.
3. She sought help to boost her profile from Michael Medved and Michelle Malkin - hardly names that those "not interested in politics" are familiar with.
4. She read up on economics at National Review
5. teamed up with Republican Dick Armey
6. she apparently sat silently by while Bush ran up the dept, even passing a trillion dollar unfunded new Medicare entitlement.
This woman is a Republican pretending to be someone previously uninterested in politics. In short a fraud.
18
Actually, if she were at all Randian she would not be advocating for charitable organizations taking these things up, nor the states; she'd be advocating for letting the poor either work or die, as any aid whether private or public merely weakens society by enslaving us to altruism, and allows people who are too weak to survive to go on living. She's even stupider than you give her credit for, Dan, since she actually has no idea what her apparent role model truly advocates.
19
She, and many of the teabaggers, seem to lack a basic understanding of government. I find it interesting in the NPR article on her that she complains that she's angry that someone else decides where her tax dollars go. Um...that's what our elected representatives do. We elect them to do that. Does she complain when a Republican decides where it goes?
20
Dan, there wouldn't be "elderly starving in the streets" because there'd be no streets. That would rely upon taking people's money for the common good of most/all of us.
I have nothing but contempt for the intellectual dishonesty and cognitive limitations of "libertarians."
Please: Go away.
I have nothing but contempt for the intellectual dishonesty and cognitive limitations of "libertarians."
Please: Go away.
21
This is not dishonesty. It's a mental illness.
The paradox is those paranoid nuts would actually prefer a police state that treats them like children. That's why they went Loco about Obama. He talks to people like they're adults and that makes the paranoids anxious.
The paradox is those paranoid nuts would actually prefer a police state that treats them like children. That's why they went Loco about Obama. He talks to people like they're adults and that makes the paranoids anxious.
22
I defy you to find a single European small businessman who, on the record, compares the small business climate in Europe unfavorably with that in the USA.
not even the Europeans would argue that Europe is a friendlier environment for small business (or any other kind of business except government owned monopolies...)
I defy you to find a single European small businessman who, on the record, compares the small business climate in Europe unfavorably with that in the USA.
24
"I defy you to find a single European small businessman who, on the record, compares the small business climate in Europe unfavorably with that in the USA."
OK , I will. Lived in Europe for 6 yrs (won't say what country, let's just say it's a great place to visit). Along with 2 citizens started a small publishing company. Then hired our first 2 full time employees - had to fire one after the 3 month, state required full time contract kicked in. Why? because this employee knew once she got that, she didn't really have to work. Spent a year trying to get rid of her (all the while paying her salary while she did not work) and another 18 months of charges after she was fired. Cost to company? First 3 yrs of profits.
So said company has been moved to Hong Kong. 2nd employee luckily found another job and left. I'm just an investor now but get a nice quarterly payment. Thank god the Chinese know the value of work.
OK , I will. Lived in Europe for 6 yrs (won't say what country, let's just say it's a great place to visit). Along with 2 citizens started a small publishing company. Then hired our first 2 full time employees - had to fire one after the 3 month, state required full time contract kicked in. Why? because this employee knew once she got that, she didn't really have to work. Spent a year trying to get rid of her (all the while paying her salary while she did not work) and another 18 months of charges after she was fired. Cost to company? First 3 yrs of profits.
So said company has been moved to Hong Kong. 2nd employee luckily found another job and left. I'm just an investor now but get a nice quarterly payment. Thank god the Chinese know the value of work.
25
I have a hard time believing in her. I read her blog and how can someone with such intese, wingnut views be engaged to an Obama-voter? Her views seem to lack consistency... is this all just some weird form of performance art from a frustrated actor/improv type, who's desperately in need of attention?
Or is she just another Tea Party hypocrite who doesn't see the logical fallacies of her arguments?
If only she'd channeled her energy into some other form of twee, aesthetically impaired bullsh-t.
Or is she just another Tea Party hypocrite who doesn't see the logical fallacies of her arguments?
If only she'd channeled her energy into some other form of twee, aesthetically impaired bullsh-t.
26
@12 I didn't say that Europeans small business folks don't whine (and thanks @24 for demonstrating that whine so well :-) just that *in spite of the whining* the stats show that those small and medium size business are surviving well enough:
to provide a bigger chunk of their jobs than US small and medium sized businesses provide here.
So yes, it's clearly easier to do the one thing that matters - thrive enough to have employees.
(That matters from everyone else's standpoint, that is.)
Here? Well, let's just listen to Allen Sinai, chief global economist at the research firm Decision Economics:
"American business is about maximizing shareholder value, you basically don’t want workers. You hire less, and you try to find capital equipment to replace them."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/21/busine…
What could possibly go wrong here with a weak small & mid size sector and that attitude on the part of big companies?
to provide a bigger chunk of their jobs than US small and medium sized businesses provide here.
So yes, it's clearly easier to do the one thing that matters - thrive enough to have employees.
(That matters from everyone else's standpoint, that is.)
Here? Well, let's just listen to Allen Sinai, chief global economist at the research firm Decision Economics:
"American business is about maximizing shareholder value, you basically don’t want workers. You hire less, and you try to find capital equipment to replace them."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/21/busine…
What could possibly go wrong here with a weak small & mid size sector and that attitude on the part of big companies?
27
"boo. hoo.
Dan, do you know what Seattle will look like when the Federal Government is bankrupt?
When China nor anyone else will loan the US another $Trillion hit to keep the Welfare State afloat 3 more months?
When, at the 22% interest rates the US will then be paying the national debt eats up $3.2 Trillion every year just in Interest?
The tsunami would be quicker and more merciful... "
why don't you vote again for George Dubya Bush about it
Dan, do you know what Seattle will look like when the Federal Government is bankrupt?
When China nor anyone else will loan the US another $Trillion hit to keep the Welfare State afloat 3 more months?
When, at the 22% interest rates the US will then be paying the national debt eats up $3.2 Trillion every year just in Interest?
The tsunami would be quicker and more merciful... "
why don't you vote again for George Dubya Bush about it
29
There's a way to stave off this "imminent collapse". It's called taxing the rich at the level they should be taxed: At the Republican levels of the 1950's, which were around 90% for anyone making over a million a year (3 million in today's dollars).
Oh, and eliminate the Social Security earnings cap (which is currently at 96k, I believe) so that EVERYONE pays into Social Security and Medicare for every single dollar of income. If we did that, and cut the overall percentage of the tax, it would be a added benefit for normal people as well.
Additionally, go after the war profiteers, re-establish trade tariffs, open up Medicare to everyone (so we can eliminate medicaid), and we should be fine.
But that can't be sound-byted, and no one wants to put colonial costumes on and talk about it, so it probably won't happen.
Oh, and eliminate the Social Security earnings cap (which is currently at 96k, I believe) so that EVERYONE pays into Social Security and Medicare for every single dollar of income. If we did that, and cut the overall percentage of the tax, it would be a added benefit for normal people as well.
Additionally, go after the war profiteers, re-establish trade tariffs, open up Medicare to everyone (so we can eliminate medicaid), and we should be fine.
But that can't be sound-byted, and no one wants to put colonial costumes on and talk about it, so it probably won't happen.
31
@30:
Nice come back. Did you make that up all by yourself, or did you hear it on Rush or Hannity first?
And I'm awaiting with breathless intensity YOUR proposed solutions.
And waiting. And waiting. And...
Nice come back. Did you make that up all by yourself, or did you hear it on Rush or Hannity first?
And I'm awaiting with breathless intensity YOUR proposed solutions.
And waiting. And waiting. And...
32
Here's lovely Keli protesting banning guns from city parks and buildings:
http://www.seattlepi.com/photos/photo.as…
http://www.seattlepi.com/photos/photo.as…
33
Also - in her blog - love how she downplays her education at Western Washington and emphasizes her attainment of a teaching certificate at Oxford - as if she has credentials.
http://www.blogger.com/profile/159032107…
http://www.blogger.com/profile/159032107…
34
30 dear, I know it must hurt when someone pulls the tail of your dogma, but you're not a very good acolyte if you can't even counter what I have to say.
The high marginal tax rate, which existed up until Granpaw Ronnie came into office, coincided with our strongest time of prosperity. Even in the 70's, which everyone likes to deride, we had a strong middle class. The high interest rates were primarily because of the delayed debt of the Viet Nam war (we'll be seeing that here again, eventually, to pay off Georgie's wars)
And what's wrong with lowering the FICA tax, but making everyone pay for it? Either you are wealthy (which I doubt), or you are extremely gullible. Don't you want more spending money each paycheck?
Lastly, trade tariffs not only protect jobs, they ease the tax burden on all of us. The entire government of the US was supported almost exclusively by tariffs up until the Civil War, and were an important revenue stream until the whole NAFTA/CAFTA/WTO debacle. Other industrialized nations still aggressively use tariffs, why should be be suckers?
It's sweet that you are so loyal to a failed experiment, but it's time to grow up and move on. Everyone leaves home eventually, there's no need to be afraid.
The high marginal tax rate, which existed up until Granpaw Ronnie came into office, coincided with our strongest time of prosperity. Even in the 70's, which everyone likes to deride, we had a strong middle class. The high interest rates were primarily because of the delayed debt of the Viet Nam war (we'll be seeing that here again, eventually, to pay off Georgie's wars)
And what's wrong with lowering the FICA tax, but making everyone pay for it? Either you are wealthy (which I doubt), or you are extremely gullible. Don't you want more spending money each paycheck?
Lastly, trade tariffs not only protect jobs, they ease the tax burden on all of us. The entire government of the US was supported almost exclusively by tariffs up until the Civil War, and were an important revenue stream until the whole NAFTA/CAFTA/WTO debacle. Other industrialized nations still aggressively use tariffs, why should be be suckers?
It's sweet that you are so loyal to a failed experiment, but it's time to grow up and move on. Everyone leaves home eventually, there's no need to be afraid.
35
@ 29 & 34: Current US FICA Taxes are at 15.3%, 12.4% for Social Security & 2.9% for Medicare. Employers & employees split this in half, each paying 6.2% for Social Security and 1.45% for Medicare, up to the current Social Security Wage Base, which is unchanged from the 2009 limit at $106,800. After an employee earns the Wage Base, neither the employer nor employee has any Social Security tax to owe, but they're still both paying the 1.45% on any wages earned for Medicare. Just thought you'd like to know. I'm a fan of your idea to end the cap, but would offer one suggestion: End the cap on the Employee's portion of the Social Security Tax. Make the people pay, not their employers. Almost like a 401(k); most of the time, the employers match to a point well before the total contributions reach the yearly maximum.
36
@29
Cat, we like the idea of removing the cap, but as @35 suggests, only on the employee part; but without lowering the rate because SS needs all it can get.
No one wants to admit it but means testing SS benefits is also inevitable.
(I appreciate your posts, @30 is not this particular troll...)
Cat, we like the idea of removing the cap, but as @35 suggests, only on the employee part; but without lowering the rate because SS needs all it can get.
No one wants to admit it but means testing SS benefits is also inevitable.
(I appreciate your posts, @30 is not this particular troll...)
38
Shitty tipper, notorious homophobe, and hell to serve, too. No plan for anything other than "cut mah taxuhs!" So, basically, she's like Dino Rossi but slightly less ugly on the outside.
39
35, I would tend to make employers pay as part of an effort to keep executive compensation lower, but I'm not going to have a huge spaz over it.
36, I suggested lowering the overall percentage as a carrot for the working folks, but again, I'm not about to stick my head in the oven if I don't get my way.
See? Isn't is nice when we can have a pleasant conversation? ;-)
36, I suggested lowering the overall percentage as a carrot for the working folks, but again, I'm not about to stick my head in the oven if I don't get my way.
See? Isn't is nice when we can have a pleasant conversation? ;-)
40
39
it's very nice.
as an employer I think the government shoud impose as few disincentives to hiring as possible.
plus, by making the employer pay it it hides the true cost (and pain) from the employee.
make the employee pay the full 15.3%.
(I'm assuming employers would adjust salary to reflect that they aren't paying their part to the government anymore...)
make sure they know just how much it is costing.
let them see that deducted from their pay stub.
the truth will make you free...
if they don't like it they can take it up with the government.
the employer is just a middle man caught between the two- Ted Kennedy types like to give benefits but make employers pay for it, as if hiring someone was a crime to be punished and fined.
anything that government makes employers pay is a disintentive to hire-
in good times that gets swept under the rug but when times get tough it makes employers reluctant to stick their neck out and hire.
the point of the '50% don't pay income taxes etc etc.." on another thread is that government has for years trying to shield the 'people' from unpleasant news and reality-
no one should pay any taxes
no one should suffer if they made unwise (or- heaven forbid- unlucky...) mortgage choices
no one should have to pay for their own health care....
etc
etc
we are spoiled Roman citizens gorged on debt purchased bread and circus and the emperor is terrified of us.
we need elected officials who will have a frank unpleasant talk with us and who care more about the truth than getting re-elected.
I'm not blaming the politicians, mind you-
we get exactly what we deserve from our government and the buck stops with us, the common man.
except when we pass it down to our grandkids.
which we increasingly do.
what were we talking about?...
More...
it's very nice.
as an employer I think the government shoud impose as few disincentives to hiring as possible.
plus, by making the employer pay it it hides the true cost (and pain) from the employee.
make the employee pay the full 15.3%.
(I'm assuming employers would adjust salary to reflect that they aren't paying their part to the government anymore...)
make sure they know just how much it is costing.
let them see that deducted from their pay stub.
the truth will make you free...
if they don't like it they can take it up with the government.
the employer is just a middle man caught between the two- Ted Kennedy types like to give benefits but make employers pay for it, as if hiring someone was a crime to be punished and fined.
anything that government makes employers pay is a disintentive to hire-
in good times that gets swept under the rug but when times get tough it makes employers reluctant to stick their neck out and hire.
the point of the '50% don't pay income taxes etc etc.." on another thread is that government has for years trying to shield the 'people' from unpleasant news and reality-
no one should pay any taxes
no one should suffer if they made unwise (or- heaven forbid- unlucky...) mortgage choices
no one should have to pay for their own health care....
etc
etc
we are spoiled Roman citizens gorged on debt purchased bread and circus and the emperor is terrified of us.
we need elected officials who will have a frank unpleasant talk with us and who care more about the truth than getting re-elected.
I'm not blaming the politicians, mind you-
we get exactly what we deserve from our government and the buck stops with us, the common man.
except when we pass it down to our grandkids.
which we increasingly do.
what were we talking about?...
41
39
re:executive compensation
anything that would reign them in is fine by me.
this Republican thinks Wall Street and the CEOs have been screwing the country over for too long.
re:executive compensation
anything that would reign them in is fine by me.
this Republican thinks Wall Street and the CEOs have been screwing the country over for too long.
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