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News & ArtsTuesday, February 23, 2010
Religion The Age of Consent in Vatican City—Seriously, Vatican City—is Twelve
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:32 AM
1
I normally hate those parents who keep their kids on leashes, but if you take them to the Vatican, it might be a good idea. Maybe even handcuff them to your wrist. If they go off down some hallway you'll never see them again.
2
Hmmm...Microsoft is pushing its employees to advocate for the 520 bridge replacement with the current design options:
http://520bridge.posterous.com/
There was a company-wide email sent asking people to advocate for this.
http://520bridge.posterous.com/
There was a company-wide email sent asking people to advocate for this.
10
Makes the recent Catholicism commercials all the creepier. One wonders if there are secret precincts in the Vatican that resemble Salo.
13
Thanks for finding these obscure facts for us Dan! And welcome back from vacation - we missed you.
17
Also, can Zepol's account be suspended? All this person ever does is cut and paste from other sources, usually about stuff completely unrelated to the post. S/he is just sucking up electrons.
18
So the whole celibacy thing really IS just a sham! I mean, if all those priests, cardinals, bishops and what-not were actually practicing celibacy, there'd be no need to even have an age-of-consent law, now would there?
19
@18 It's just not priests and whatnot working there. You also have police, accountants, gift shop retailers, Swiss Guards and such. But your poit about celibacy is right on.
20
When the Vatican became a country in 1929, it imported Italy's penal code, under the terms of the Lateran Treaty. At the time, Italy's age of consent was 12. They've since raised it, but - because the importation of Italian laws under the Lateran Treaty was a one-time deal - the Vatican's age of consent did not change accordingly.
The Vatican has fewer than 900 citizens, all of whom are clergy and guards - that is, no children.
In other news, this is nowhere near as exciting and scandalous as it seems.
The Vatican has fewer than 900 citizens, all of whom are clergy and guards - that is, no children.
In other news, this is nowhere near as exciting and scandalous as it seems.
21
As a coin collector I've always enjoyed finding the occasional Vatican City coin to add to my collection--yes, they have their own money. It's kind of like finding coins from Tuvalu, another tiny, tiny, tiny country, but then Tuvalu is surrounded by water. The Vatican is surrounded by...Italy. Every time I find Vatican City money I wonder what the exchange rate is, and how many people even bother with it.
22
In defense of Arkansas, Indiana and Iowa, it's only 14 there if the older party is 18 or less. Otherwise it's 16.
23
To hazard a wild, liberal, reformist guess, Marlina, six, but only with peers with an age difference of two years or less (minimum of six), fifteen, but only with partners thirteen up to twenty-four years, Eighteen, with anyone fifteen or older.
And one has to be twenty-one to marry.
Dan's opinions may differ wildly, of course.
Incidentally, in a number of US States, the age of consent can be circumvented by marriage which only requires parental permission (which is easy to acquire in a religious commune). Plenty of American tweens get deflowered regularly by old men who trade each other their daughters, all under the fold of legitimate marriage.
High-school girls rampantly get it on with college-age boys regardless of the law, throughout the free world.
Legal divorces rapidly follow, when a new groomable bride becomes available to be added to the man's family. (And we thought child prostitution was bad.)
And one has to be twenty-one to marry.
Dan's opinions may differ wildly, of course.
Incidentally, in a number of US States, the age of consent can be circumvented by marriage which only requires parental permission (which is easy to acquire in a religious commune). Plenty of American tweens get deflowered regularly by old men who trade each other their daughters, all under the fold of legitimate marriage.
High-school girls rampantly get it on with college-age boys regardless of the law, throughout the free world.
Legal divorces rapidly follow, when a new groomable bride becomes available to be added to the man's family. (And we thought child prostitution was bad.)
28
What did you think was skeevy, attitude devant my age of consent schedule?
I based it on standard child psychology manual stats. Y'know, Parents, don't freak out if you catch your kids engaging in the following kinds of sexual experimentation / exploration...
Kids start playing doctor around sixish. Girls are macking on each other practicing for boys in their tweens, and many, many teenaged girls do get their freak on with college kids. Most of the 50% of high school students who remain abstinent until nineteen are boys who can't find a viable partner.
Last I checked, age of consent laws were about keeping adults from preying on children, not criminalizing the natural sexual development activities of the kids, themselves. Yes, some such activities can be dangerous. Yes, at age appropriate times they need to know things like what sexual abuse looks like, what is going to get someone pregnant and the emotional ramifications of sexual intimacy (which is seldom covered at all). Yes, sometimes these activities need to be curbed by parents. No, children don't need to be suspended from school or thrown in juvie for statutory rape because he or she corrupted a fellow kid who's two years older than him/her (which is the kind of thing that happens with our present flat-rate system.) Really, we don't need to be jailing college kids for their high-school partners. No, we don't need to convict children of eight with rape, and then tag them for life as sexual predators (based, again, on news).
Still skeevy? That's why I disclaimed it as a wild, liberal, reformist guess. Most of the US still wants to retain (and enforce) the alleged innocence of our children, and we're sooner going to secure normalization of gays than let go of that fantasy.
I find it interesting that folks feel bullying should be handled (or not, as it often is) by the community (and not the authorities), and yet are perfectly content to throw sexually exploratory kids into the public corrective system. To me, that's pretty skeevy.
More...
I based it on standard child psychology manual stats. Y'know, Parents, don't freak out if you catch your kids engaging in the following kinds of sexual experimentation / exploration...
Kids start playing doctor around sixish. Girls are macking on each other practicing for boys in their tweens, and many, many teenaged girls do get their freak on with college kids. Most of the 50% of high school students who remain abstinent until nineteen are boys who can't find a viable partner.
Last I checked, age of consent laws were about keeping adults from preying on children, not criminalizing the natural sexual development activities of the kids, themselves. Yes, some such activities can be dangerous. Yes, at age appropriate times they need to know things like what sexual abuse looks like, what is going to get someone pregnant and the emotional ramifications of sexual intimacy (which is seldom covered at all). Yes, sometimes these activities need to be curbed by parents. No, children don't need to be suspended from school or thrown in juvie for statutory rape because he or she corrupted a fellow kid who's two years older than him/her (which is the kind of thing that happens with our present flat-rate system.) Really, we don't need to be jailing college kids for their high-school partners. No, we don't need to convict children of eight with rape, and then tag them for life as sexual predators (based, again, on news).
Still skeevy? That's why I disclaimed it as a wild, liberal, reformist guess. Most of the US still wants to retain (and enforce) the alleged innocence of our children, and we're sooner going to secure normalization of gays than let go of that fantasy.
I find it interesting that folks feel bullying should be handled (or not, as it often is) by the community (and not the authorities), and yet are perfectly content to throw sexually exploratory kids into the public corrective system. To me, that's pretty skeevy.
29
Why no link to the document Sullivan says he received? I'd like to share this story, but no way I'm linking to that self-absorbed douche.
30
Not at all surprising. We shouldn't be lulled into thinking the Catholic Church feels is has to abide by any laws or even any principles regarding the protection of children.
Survivors of childhood sexual abuse by those in a religious order learn quickly, if they are brave enough to report it, that it's all about preserving the power and prestige of the church.
The latest tactic to defend against civil suits from survivors is claiming that religious orders don't owe any duty of care to protect pupils from sexually-abusive members of religious orders, because (unlike lay teachers who are employed on salaries) members of religious orders aren't, technically, "employees".
I really don't think laws about age of consent are much on their mind.
Survivors of childhood sexual abuse by those in a religious order learn quickly, if they are brave enough to report it, that it's all about preserving the power and prestige of the church.
The latest tactic to defend against civil suits from survivors is claiming that religious orders don't owe any duty of care to protect pupils from sexually-abusive members of religious orders, because (unlike lay teachers who are employed on salaries) members of religious orders aren't, technically, "employees".
I really don't think laws about age of consent are much on their mind.
31
holle!I am a chines university student,and I am preparing for my presentation in the English oral class,i have chose the Vatican City as my topic.Could someone give me some advice,please?
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