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News & ArtsThursday, February 18, 2010
Animals The Dog Owner's Revenge
Posted by Charles Mudede on Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:58 AM
A moment ago, at a sunny street corner: a woman and her dog. The dog is biggish, black, shaggy, and leashed. It's sniffing some bush, then a patch of grass, then something on the concrete, then the area near my feet. At that moment, the moment before its muzzle meets and pulls some smell from the surface of my shoes, the woman pulls the dog away from me. The leashed animal looks up at her; she looks down at it and says: "No, honey, some people do not like dogs. I know, I know, but not everybody likes you. Some people hate you and we have to respect that." She gives the leash another strong pull, the dog chokes, surrenders, and runs to her side. Both walk across the street.
Now, why all of this talking? Dogs do not speak English, so the woman was actually speaking to me. She wanted to make me (of all people) feel guilty for not wanting my feet sniffed by some strange, dirty, hairy animal. Her lovely, lovely animal is not loved by everybody. This is not the dog's fault; it is the fault of the world. The dog lives in a world that happens have people like me—people who do not like it. The woman wanted me to see/hear that she was making a big, big effort to accommodate people like me—the faults of the world. Dog owners sometimes.
1
That you don't like dogs makes it your fault. Why do you expect other people and their dogs to conform to you? You don't just "not like" dogs, you actively dislike them and spend consequential amounts of time dwelling on it and posting about it. Most people dislike lots of things. They don't make a big deal about it. You do. It's your problem.
2
No Charles, she was talking to her dog. The dog doesn't understand English linguistically, but it certainly understands aspects of the vocal communication she directed at it. Tone of voice and all that ho-ha.
Anyone who's ever had a pet where the pet is a being as much a part of your household as any person, and not a funny thing/other, knows you talk to them. This is how you create a society with them, by communicating, even though they might only understand the tiniest sliver of that communication. Creating a society with them leads to, usually, sane dogs who don't exist in virtual isolation.
What would be better, people trying to communicate with their dogs through body language and barking?
Anyone who's ever had a pet where the pet is a being as much a part of your household as any person, and not a funny thing/other, knows you talk to them. This is how you create a society with them, by communicating, even though they might only understand the tiniest sliver of that communication. Creating a society with them leads to, usually, sane dogs who don't exist in virtual isolation.
What would be better, people trying to communicate with their dogs through body language and barking?
3
Charles, the ideas you get sometimes! The lady was indeed speaking to you---but she wasn't trying to make you feel guilty, she was apologizing for her dog behaving like dogs do, without breaking our weird code of not speaking to strangers. She was also giving you a chance to say (if you were that kind of person) that you actually DO like dogs.
Which you aren't and don't. Which we all know.
Which you aren't and don't. Which we all know.
4
i would say that that woman WAS talking to you and telling you, hey i'm sorry, i understand you don't like dogs, so i'm respecting you and walking away. she was talking through her dog to get to you. i would say she was being respectul.
5
Being respectful would have just been keeping the dog away.
She doesn't need to flip some random guy a bunch of passive-aggressive bullshit about people not liking dogs and how tolerant she is of them.
She doesn't need to flip some random guy a bunch of passive-aggressive bullshit about people not liking dogs and how tolerant she is of them.
6
I agree with Charles (for once!). She was passive-aggressively speaking to Charles and attempting to make him feel guilty for not loving dogs like "most" people do. You Seattle-ites are just as passive-aggressive as most Minnesotans, but here we have a cute little name for it: Minnesota Nice.
7
I think attitude devant has it 100% right.
There's another possible aspect to it... I have two dogs. And I acknowledge that not everyone likes dogs. So, I try to be very aware of my dogs and their proximity to other people when I'm out and about in public. But, sometimes, if you correct your dog and don't let it approach someone, people will assume you have a mean dog. That you're pulling the dog away for their safety not because of the possibility that they may not like dogs.
Now, I don't prattle on about why I keep my dogs from approaching others like this woman seems to have. But, I completely understand the impulse to attempt to explain that you're not pulling the dog away because it is dangerous but because some people just don't like dogs. Especially if you're walking the dog in your neighborhood and you prefer that your neighbors not think that your pet is unsafe around people.
There's another possible aspect to it... I have two dogs. And I acknowledge that not everyone likes dogs. So, I try to be very aware of my dogs and their proximity to other people when I'm out and about in public. But, sometimes, if you correct your dog and don't let it approach someone, people will assume you have a mean dog. That you're pulling the dog away for their safety not because of the possibility that they may not like dogs.
Now, I don't prattle on about why I keep my dogs from approaching others like this woman seems to have. But, I completely understand the impulse to attempt to explain that you're not pulling the dog away because it is dangerous but because some people just don't like dogs. Especially if you're walking the dog in your neighborhood and you prefer that your neighbors not think that your pet is unsafe around people.
8
I usually like your posts. This one, however, is so narcissistic that I actually said, "What the fuck?" after reading it. The woman was being respectful of you, as other comments have pointed out. But apparently your world, at least as it relates to people who really love their companion animals, is so restricted that your voice is the only one you want to hear when out walking.
You probably have a cat too.
You probably have a cat too.
9
I hate dogs. If I have to be subjected to this treatment from dog owners who reign in their dogs, so be it.
I do like cats (they have a much better understanding of personal space--sometimes they just choose not respect it, but at least they're aware of it, unlike say, dogs, or drunk people). I don't like people who baby talk their animals, and yet I can't help doing it to my kitten. It just comes out. He doesn't seem to understand English (baby talk or otherwise) but what's more puzzling is that he doesn't understand LOLz, either. He does understand shouting though, and I think he understands when my voice is affectionate.
Sorry for the rambling comment.
I do like cats (they have a much better understanding of personal space--sometimes they just choose not respect it, but at least they're aware of it, unlike say, dogs, or drunk people). I don't like people who baby talk their animals, and yet I can't help doing it to my kitten. It just comes out. He doesn't seem to understand English (baby talk or otherwise) but what's more puzzling is that he doesn't understand LOLz, either. He does understand shouting though, and I think he understands when my voice is affectionate.
Sorry for the rambling comment.
10
The blog owner's revenge:
'I keep my mouth shut, then go home and blog some pseudophilosophical crap about a person.'
You see lady, Charles isn't speaking to us, he's speaking to you. Except he's so passive-aggressive that he waits an hour and seeks reinforcement later via a public forum.
It's not the blog's fault, it's the fault of the world.
'I keep my mouth shut, then go home and blog some pseudophilosophical crap about a person.'
You see lady, Charles isn't speaking to us, he's speaking to you. Except he's so passive-aggressive that he waits an hour and seeks reinforcement later via a public forum.
It's not the blog's fault, it's the fault of the world.
12
Charles, she was inviting you to pet the dog while simultaniously giving you a polite way to refuse (i.e. be silent).
13
Maybe she was just reacting to the expression on your face? If not actual fear, then maybe some disgust? Maybe you gave her some visual clues as to how you feel about dogs, and she was responding to that?
Or maybe she's a devoted Slogger and she recognized you? With your well-known and documented canine adversity, maybe she just wanted to accomodate your stated preferences?
In any event, are you ever capable of moving through the world in a non-solipsistic fashion? Because if you are, there is precious little evidence of it posted here to the Slog.
Or maybe she's a devoted Slogger and she recognized you? With your well-known and documented canine adversity, maybe she just wanted to accomodate your stated preferences?
In any event, are you ever capable of moving through the world in a non-solipsistic fashion? Because if you are, there is precious little evidence of it posted here to the Slog.
14
Charles is right. The dog's natural inclination is "like me, like me, like me". The dog owner's is not; but dog owners readily get confused on this point. What happened here was a demand (expressed in a passive-agressive way) that Charles love her dog as she herself does. That's not reasonable.
15
I think she doesn't like big hairy black people and didn't want her big hairy black dog near you and just spouted some carefully worded BS to that effect. If you had been white, and the dog had been white, this would not have happened.
16
@5, seriously, that is all she needed to do. pull the dog away. no need for this passive-aggressive business.
18
um, but what kind of reaction were you giving her that made her ramble on? If the dog was just sniffing around, I doubt she'd have bothered to say all that, rather than just pull him away.
19
This lady is so Seattle. I hear that kind of thing ALL the time here. My friend and I were riding bikes in a park once without helmets and some guy yelled really loudly to his friends right as we were passing, "And THEN they don't even wear helmets!" It's so obnoxious.
But I'm sure you'll get lots of comments defending the lady as "just wanting to let you know..." because it's such an innate quality out here that people feel that's a legitimate form of communication and not just her passive-aggressive way of letting you know she's going out of her way to accomodate your "ridiculous" dislike of dogs, thus trying to make you feel bad.
But I'm sure you'll get lots of comments defending the lady as "just wanting to let you know..." because it's such an innate quality out here that people feel that's a legitimate form of communication and not just her passive-aggressive way of letting you know she's going out of her way to accomodate your "ridiculous" dislike of dogs, thus trying to make you feel bad.
21
@9 - "I don't like people who baby talk their animals, and yet I can't help doing it to my kitten." I'm the same way. It always irked me when other people did it, but now I do it to my cats. I know that it's a completely nonsensical thing to do, but it just comes out naturally.
22
Both of you suck. She is a passive aggressive typical seattle hipster. And you are a whinny, dont touch or talk to me city going cold isolated jerk. Let the damn dog smell you. Why the hell do you have to act like such a cold jerk. Get out enjoy being human, smell the flowers, talk to people, pet dogs, and the like. Man, no fun Charles, you are no fun.
I wish the damn dog would have bitten you. Jerk. Keep being cold and isolated and not enjoying life. I hope the SLOG provides you with adequate human contact. Because from the sounds of it, you are a freaking jerk to meet on the street. Now I see why you are so obsessed with going to Italy. You fit in there. Go walk a dog.
I wish the damn dog would have bitten you. Jerk. Keep being cold and isolated and not enjoying life. I hope the SLOG provides you with adequate human contact. Because from the sounds of it, you are a freaking jerk to meet on the street. Now I see why you are so obsessed with going to Italy. You fit in there. Go walk a dog.
23
Julie's probably made the most thoughtful comment so far about why she might have acted in this manner. Sheesh, okay, so she's a dog owner who's a bit verbose and maybe a little loopy. It's been known to happen. I usually just tell my dog, "No.", and move on. All this attribution of "passive aggressive" behavior on her part is getting a bit ridiculous. It's amazing that Seattle is increasingly childless yet simultaneously full of babies.
25
You're leaving something out. The woman's alleged comments are extraordinarily out of proportion with the scenario you described.
You must have had a pretty strong reaction for her to say that.
Or you're BS'ing and she did not, in fact, say that.
Normally people wouldn't make presumptuous comments like that out of the blue.
What are you leaving out?
(PS it's possibly that she's crazy rude, but somehow i think you made a comment or a nasty face or something to warrant the comment)
(PPS - i'm not justifying her comment even if you did make a nasty face or a comment of your own - what she said was weird and annoying, but i still don't believe it was out of the blue)
You must have had a pretty strong reaction for her to say that.
Or you're BS'ing and she did not, in fact, say that.
Normally people wouldn't make presumptuous comments like that out of the blue.
What are you leaving out?
(PS it's possibly that she's crazy rude, but somehow i think you made a comment or a nasty face or something to warrant the comment)
(PPS - i'm not justifying her comment even if you did make a nasty face or a comment of your own - what she said was weird and annoying, but i still don't believe it was out of the blue)
27
I've known dog owners like that. I was once deep in conversation with my grandma when suddenly a big dog was upon me, rubbing its face down my pants leg and leaving a slimy trail of drool and snot. I stepped quickly away and said, "ick!" and the dog's owner who had let it (while leashed!) walk up to me simply because it wanted to) comforted it, "there there baby. I forget not everyone loves you like they should."
Really? Do most people really appreciate leashed animals climbing on them? I actually had to go change my clothes after that encounter.
Really? Do most people really appreciate leashed animals climbing on them? I actually had to go change my clothes after that encounter.
29
25, actually, i did not realize how close the dog was until she made the comment about there being dog haters in the world. I was in a conversation and the dog was not dominating my attention.
31
"No, honey, some people do not like dogs. I know, I know, but not everybody likes you. Some people hate you and we have to respect that."
If she had left it at the first sentence, she could be given the benefit of the doubt, that she was just subtly indicating to Charles that she was trying to be considerate of him. That she continued on with her "poor me" crap thereafter proves Charles' point.
If she had left it at the first sentence, she could be given the benefit of the doubt, that she was just subtly indicating to Charles that she was trying to be considerate of him. That she continued on with her "poor me" crap thereafter proves Charles' point.
32
@26, what, you mean she feared Charles might put her dog in one of his internationally acclaimed movies? Ooh, scary.
33
Charles, I believe that my dog is part cat. He acts very much like one. I think that you would like him very much, but he wouldn't like you to pet him.
34
People don't always behave rationally, Charles. Surely you must know that.
The logical analytical part of my brain understands that pets can't understand the English language. That has nevertheless never stopped me from talking to dogs and cats I take a liking to. I'm not talking to the humans around them. I'm just prattling affectionate nonsense to the pet.
The logical analytical part of my brain understands that pets can't understand the English language. That has nevertheless never stopped me from talking to dogs and cats I take a liking to. I'm not talking to the humans around them. I'm just prattling affectionate nonsense to the pet.
36
keshmeshi is right - if she'd just left it at the first sentence it would be fine. The rest of he blather is total passive aggressive crap. But I can't help but call #10 FTW.
37
I'm with #35...I totally agree with Charles, as frustrating as that statement is :) This is Seattle passive-aggressive at it's finest. All of you who disagree are no doubt people who also use this stupid way of telling the world that it owes you something.
39
Not all dogs are equally intelligent or adept at understanding human language, of course, but the more intelligent breeds do in fact understand quite a bit; in this scientific study, the dog even understands German:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries…
Dogs are specially adapted/bred/evolved to be responsive to human language, human gestures, human body language, and human emotions. It's not merely a Pavlovian conditioning thing; it's been selected in their genes.
Dogs' passive language skills are also highly contextual (i.e. they aren't as good at generalization as humans are), and some smarter dogs likely have a vague understanding of past and future time.
Obviously some owners are crazy and think their dogs understand Sartre, too, but that woman you encountered probably says the same strings of words to her dog in similar contexts using the same tone of voice, and I would wager the dog has a rudimentary but good understanding that those syllables and that tone and people like you giving off certain body language cues all together mean "stay away from that one, but not because he's dangerous" or something along those lines.
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries…
Dogs are specially adapted/bred/evolved to be responsive to human language, human gestures, human body language, and human emotions. It's not merely a Pavlovian conditioning thing; it's been selected in their genes.
Dogs' passive language skills are also highly contextual (i.e. they aren't as good at generalization as humans are), and some smarter dogs likely have a vague understanding of past and future time.
Obviously some owners are crazy and think their dogs understand Sartre, too, but that woman you encountered probably says the same strings of words to her dog in similar contexts using the same tone of voice, and I would wager the dog has a rudimentary but good understanding that those syllables and that tone and people like you giving off certain body language cues all together mean "stay away from that one, but not because he's dangerous" or something along those lines.
40
I can usually tell almost immediately if strangers are dog people and want to pet my dog. If they do, I'll let my dog walk over to them and say hello. If they're quiet, I'll keep her leashed, and if I space out and she walks over to them, I'll pull her in and apologize. I think that's the courteous behavior. Charles is right, everyone doesn't have to love your dog, children etc. And that doesn't make them an asshole.
41
As long as the dog is on a leash (and it was) you have no right to complain about anything. Assuming you can stay 6' away from the person. The person with the dog has the same right to be there as you do. It isn't against the law to be sniffed by a passing dog. Really.
42
Agree with @3, @10 and @12 .
Don't assume passive aggression here--she may have been talking to her dog (I do). As someone pointed out, dogs certainly do hear tone of voice, and using vocal as well as physical cues makes for more effective training reinforcement. It seems to me that the likelihood that she was doing it in a way that invited you to answer without (gasp) speaking to a stranger in public is also highly likely.
Have you ever pondered why you have an aversion to animals?
Don't assume passive aggression here--she may have been talking to her dog (I do). As someone pointed out, dogs certainly do hear tone of voice, and using vocal as well as physical cues makes for more effective training reinforcement. It seems to me that the likelihood that she was doing it in a way that invited you to answer without (gasp) speaking to a stranger in public is also highly likely.
Have you ever pondered why you have an aversion to animals?
43
I've had many dog owners (and I actually love dogs, although I don't own one, and like to pet them if I'm allowed) who have handled that situation a lot better...mostly by just quickly pulling the dog away, smiling apologetically, and continuing about their business. The dog may have a right to be on the sidewalk, but it doesn't have any more right to get in someone's space than a person does, especially in a situation where it's 99% avoidable. This was pure passive-aggressive B.S. She could have left it at the "No, no honey" and it would have been fine.
A responsible pet owner respects others by scooping their poop, not letting their animal run wild and definitely not letting their animal approach whomever they please without some very distinct sign that it is ok by the other person. When someone chooses to enter a pet owner's home (which I am one), they do so with the understanding that they have to interact with the animal (or reach some sort of understanding with the owner, alerting them of any problems they may have so they can be dealt with). In public, I think it is only right and fair that one does not force, or allow their animal to force, their presence and opinions about such matters, upon complete strangers. Kinda like religion and politics.
A responsible pet owner respects others by scooping their poop, not letting their animal run wild and definitely not letting their animal approach whomever they please without some very distinct sign that it is ok by the other person. When someone chooses to enter a pet owner's home (which I am one), they do so with the understanding that they have to interact with the animal (or reach some sort of understanding with the owner, alerting them of any problems they may have so they can be dealt with). In public, I think it is only right and fair that one does not force, or allow their animal to force, their presence and opinions about such matters, upon complete strangers. Kinda like religion and politics.
44
I think I'll join this opinion-fest, just for the helluva it. Dogs are cool, cats are cool and people are cool. Sometimes they aren't all cool in the same space because they don't "get" each other.
The chick with the dog may or may not have had the best of intentions, nobody here knows because none of us are in her brain.
The dog may have been trying to just say hi, or tell Mr. Mudede in his own doggie way something it thought was important. We don't know, because as a species, we've figured out crap-all about how to communicate in any meaningful manner with other species. Or with our own species, come to think of it.
Mr. Mudede seems cool from the posts I've read, but since I've never met him in person, I wouldn't be making a judgment on the man's behavior and what he may or may not have done to "make" the dog and the woman act that way. Maybe the post was ill-thought, but that's where our society is now -- blog and comment about every damn thought and opinion. The more controversy, the more readership, the more views.
Hook, line and sinker -- all over a dog sniffing shoes.
The chick with the dog may or may not have had the best of intentions, nobody here knows because none of us are in her brain.
The dog may have been trying to just say hi, or tell Mr. Mudede in his own doggie way something it thought was important. We don't know, because as a species, we've figured out crap-all about how to communicate in any meaningful manner with other species. Or with our own species, come to think of it.
Mr. Mudede seems cool from the posts I've read, but since I've never met him in person, I wouldn't be making a judgment on the man's behavior and what he may or may not have done to "make" the dog and the woman act that way. Maybe the post was ill-thought, but that's where our society is now -- blog and comment about every damn thought and opinion. The more controversy, the more readership, the more views.
Hook, line and sinker -- all over a dog sniffing shoes.
45
nah, I'm with Charles. The use of the word "hate" was over the top and hints at her true intentions...
46
I am allergic to dogs and get myself out of the way if I see them coming. Often this courtesy is rewarded with a nasty look or passive-aggressive monologues like the one Charles described. In Seattle only, I might add...I haven't noticed this attitude in any other city I've lived in. I broke out in rash once from a dog jumping on me and had a lady say "oh, wow, I thought you were always just saying you were allergic because you didn't like dogs." Yeah. I hate fun, too. I should really stop and smell the flowers and enjoy life. With a fucking rash. (I should add I do like some dogs. Mostly the short-haired ones that don't jump on me.)
47
@19 for the win
Seattle has perfected the merge of Minnesotan passive-aggression with West Coast sanctimony bred from a personal code, philosophy or from politics.
Seattle has perfected the merge of Minnesotan passive-aggression with West Coast sanctimony bred from a personal code, philosophy or from politics.
48
My dog doesn't speak anything, but he sure as hell understands english and french. And he, like many dogs I know of, can tell the time. I tell him, 'we go out in 20 minutes.' He goes away and comes back, expectant, in 18 minutes (he's got the punctual thing from his other mother).
I think the owner of that dog was doing everything that everyone else suggested. A little passive-agressive, yes, and also giving you the opportunity to say hello. A combo platter. I tend to not go overboard when I'm with my monster. I talk out loud to him while also signalling to the person that the dog is friendly if he/she so chooses to pet him. But I don't want anyone to feel badly about not petting him.
I think the owner of that dog was doing everything that everyone else suggested. A little passive-agressive, yes, and also giving you the opportunity to say hello. A combo platter. I tend to not go overboard when I'm with my monster. I talk out loud to him while also signalling to the person that the dog is friendly if he/she so chooses to pet him. But I don't want anyone to feel badly about not petting him.
49
I agree with Charles, she was putting him down for not cooing over her pet. Many dog owners go to great lengths to use their dogs to interact with other people. Several how-to-get-a-date guides suggest dogs as a way to meet prospective partners.
There is a particularly annoying woman who rides the #43 bus with her lovely Irish setter. she has one of those long extension leashes. When she boards the bus she has it short. She always sits at the very back, where she then extends it so the dog can walk around and sniff passsengers or cadge pats. Some people compliment the dog and she lights up, when other people ask her to keep the dog to herself she gets very huffy. One fellow told her the extended cord was a safety hazard to standing passengers and she actually argued that it is up to people to look out for themselves, which ironically is exactly what the fellow was doing.
I was raised to never interact with other people's dogs unless you knew them and had permission. the very good reason for this is that the dog may be in obedience training and distacting them is both rude and detrimental. European dogs in public are a joy to be around because they are trained to leave others alone.
There is a particularly annoying woman who rides the #43 bus with her lovely Irish setter. she has one of those long extension leashes. When she boards the bus she has it short. She always sits at the very back, where she then extends it so the dog can walk around and sniff passsengers or cadge pats. Some people compliment the dog and she lights up, when other people ask her to keep the dog to herself she gets very huffy. One fellow told her the extended cord was a safety hazard to standing passengers and she actually argued that it is up to people to look out for themselves, which ironically is exactly what the fellow was doing.
I was raised to never interact with other people's dogs unless you knew them and had permission. the very good reason for this is that the dog may be in obedience training and distacting them is both rude and detrimental. European dogs in public are a joy to be around because they are trained to leave others alone.
50
"Some people hate you" is clearly a usage of the passive-aggressive bullshit that runs endemic in this town. If the woman really had a problem with you not gushing over her dumb smelly animal, she should of at least had enough spine to be a confrontational moron.
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