Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, February 17, 2010
Science Overheard in the Laboratory
Posted by Brendan Kiley on Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:23 PM
Did my first kitten experiment yesterday—it died before we even got into the brain. Damn.
7
How do you think we know much of what we know about biology? Especially anatomy, neurology, pathology, etc., etc., etc.
That said, we scientists should NEVER forget our humanity for the sake of scientific expediency.
That said, we scientists should NEVER forget our humanity for the sake of scientific expediency.
8
Yeah...I was just going to say, "TACO TIME!"
But really, how does one mentally move past killing kittens in a laboratory? One of the reasons I couldn't finish pharmacy school - back in the day (I don't even know if it's part of the pharmacy curriculum anymore) - was the dog lab. I can still hear the yelping as their hind leg arteries were being severed. When going to class I'd take the long way around to avoid going by that laboratory. When time came to do my time in there, I just couldn't.
By the way, in those days schools would pay about $5-$10 per dog to anyone bringing one in. Drunks would catch strays and runaways and bring them in. Different world now (Thank Jeez!), but I remember thinking, "Why don't we experiment on the drunks?"
And of course, that's what Eli Lilly did for years. They'd give street people $15 or so to be a part of drug trials without what we now call informed consent.
But really, how does one mentally move past killing kittens in a laboratory? One of the reasons I couldn't finish pharmacy school - back in the day (I don't even know if it's part of the pharmacy curriculum anymore) - was the dog lab. I can still hear the yelping as their hind leg arteries were being severed. When going to class I'd take the long way around to avoid going by that laboratory. When time came to do my time in there, I just couldn't.
By the way, in those days schools would pay about $5-$10 per dog to anyone bringing one in. Drunks would catch strays and runaways and bring them in. Different world now (Thank Jeez!), but I remember thinking, "Why don't we experiment on the drunks?"
And of course, that's what Eli Lilly did for years. They'd give street people $15 or so to be a part of drug trials without what we now call informed consent.
9
Is this a UofW thing? You think they'd learn from all the previous embarrassingly gross shit that's gotten out about them.
In any case, what a repugnant post.
In any case, what a repugnant post.
10
Dude, you'd wish people practiced on animals instead of humans if you were on the operating table with a fresh MD slicing you up.
....
oh, right, so you're against it when it isn't you that it affects.
Figures.
....
oh, right, so you're against it when it isn't you that it affects.
Figures.
11
A lot of what we know about developing brains, particularly how the visual system develops, came from humane experiments on kittens. Sometimes a cute, cuddly animal can tell you a lot.
12
Mind you, kittens don't squash flat so we can do flourescence tests on them like mice and hamsters do ...
Well, that is, they do if you use a mallet on them, but that tends to kill the mewling kitten, whereas the mouse or hamster is a ok and raring to go ... at least until we take its brain at the end.
Well, that is, they do if you use a mallet on them, but that tends to kill the mewling kitten, whereas the mouse or hamster is a ok and raring to go ... at least until we take its brain at the end.
13
Will, maybe the real tragedy of that kitten that died that Brendan posted about is that maybe that was the kitten brain that would finally tell us what the fuck is wrong with you.
14
What's really lovely is when they cut the cat's vocal cords so it can't scream while it's being tortured, excuse me, "experimented" on.
@11,
Humane, my ass.
@11,
Humane, my ass.
15
@10 - um, kittens are not at all the same inside as people. You'd better hope MDs don't practice on them.
16
I type too fast and I don't trust your wiki version of history, Fnarf.
That plus you haven't bothered finding out what the news said overseas about the same event, so it doesn't jibe with your reality. You pablum-fed Yank.
That plus you haven't bothered finding out what the news said overseas about the same event, so it doesn't jibe with your reality. You pablum-fed Yank.
17
@16, what event was that? Brendan overhearing someone say a cat died? Somehow I don't think that made too big a splash in the overseas press. Once again, you're babbling. Is that why the front of your shirt is always wet?
18
That's just... ludicrous. Nobody does anything useful with felines in a laboratory setting. It's _possible_ that veterinary students might conduct surgeries as part of their training.
21
Whenever my wife and I are ogling some rich jerk's huge mansion or yacht or whatever, we always joke that he must have to strangle kittens for a living to make that sort of ill-gotten salary...
22
@20 - depends, if they're doing things involving living brains, consciousness might be a prerequisite. You don't really have nerve endings per se inside your brain, so other than the noise of the saw, that's about all you'd feel. You don't actually know how meat ends up on your table, do you?
23
Those of you who really think there's nothing to be gained from experiments on animals are certainly free to forgo any of the medical advances that come from them. What you may not do is decide that NO ONE can have them. And yes, doing surgeries on kittens with proper anesthesia is humane, sorry @14-- and I sincerely hope you're a vegan if you're going to say dumb crap like that.
24
I'm a goddamn scientist. I WORK in an animal lab. I wasn't suggesting that animal experiments are intolerable.
Just... ick. I don't like having to euthanize fish, much less anything similar enough to me that I can understand its emotions. I understand the value of the science we do but I don't have to like killing things. I'm a husbandry tech and I consider it the most important part of my job to make the animals' lives humane and as pleasant as possible. It's the least I can do in return for what we demand from them. And I just work with fish, for fuck's sake.
If you've never worked in animal research, don't talk shit about the people who do, okay? It's not an ethical burden most people take on lightly. People who want to torture animals don't bother to get PhDs. They just pick up cats off the street.
Just... ick. I don't like having to euthanize fish, much less anything similar enough to me that I can understand its emotions. I understand the value of the science we do but I don't have to like killing things. I'm a husbandry tech and I consider it the most important part of my job to make the animals' lives humane and as pleasant as possible. It's the least I can do in return for what we demand from them. And I just work with fish, for fuck's sake.
If you've never worked in animal research, don't talk shit about the people who do, okay? It's not an ethical burden most people take on lightly. People who want to torture animals don't bother to get PhDs. They just pick up cats off the street.
25
@22 meat comes from flowers kissed by the morning dew and given a hug from everyone's mommy.
Duh.
In production of meat or research, we should limit the suffering of animals as much as possible. So no sawing up kittens while they're awake, ok?
Duh.
In production of meat or research, we should limit the suffering of animals as much as possible. So no sawing up kittens while they're awake, ok?
26
I was a Biology major, my first two years of college, and it wasn't until we started poking needles into the heads of live frogs to scramble their brains, so that they remained alive while we cut them apart that I figured it was time to change majors.
27
Yeah ... biology gave way to ecosystems science pretty quick for me when we got to the sticking needles into things' brains part. (Instead, I get to study how humanity is screwing up all the delicately balanced natural cycles! So much better).
That said, I think the funniest thing I ever heard in lab was someone running by me yelling, "The tentacles are still waving! They're still alive!" We were working with hydra, which are maybe a centimeter or two long, at most.
That said, I think the funniest thing I ever heard in lab was someone running by me yelling, "The tentacles are still waving! They're still alive!" We were working with hydra, which are maybe a centimeter or two long, at most.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Hating People Doesn't Make Them Thinner by Jen Graves
-
Los Angeles Gay Bar Bans Bachelorette Parties Until Marriage Equality Is Attained by David Schmader
-
Fill in the Blank by Grant Brissey
-
This Reminds Me of the Great Calculator Scare of the Late '70s/Early '80s by David Schmader
-
Idiot Tries to Defend Bigoted Anti-Gay-Marriage Preacher on Anderson Cooper by Paul Constant
-
Six Moms with Too Much Time on Their Hands and a Shitty Website Decide to Fight Gay Superheroes by Paul Constant
-
What the Hell Is Wrong With Seattle's Pride Parade? by Dominic Holden
-
The Saturday Morning News by Unpaid Intern
-
Why Mayor McGinn's Wife Canceled Her Family's Seattle Times Subscription by Eli Sanders
-
NYC Man Ticketed for Not Riding in the Bike Lane by Jonathan Golob
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (27) RSS