Slog
News & ArtsThursday, February 11, 2010
Crime Is Sexism at the Heart of the Tunnel Beating?
Posted by Charles Mudede on Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:12 AM
ST:
Talk of rule changes follows a Jan. 28 beating in which a 15-year-old girl punched another girl on the Westlake Station tunnel platform, then kicked her six times in the head as three guards looked on and called for help. Moments earlier, the victim had tried to avoid the attack by standing near the guards, surveillance video shows.I have guts, and these guts have feelings that are telling me that the response to the fight might have been different if it had involved men. The fact that must not be lost in all of this is that a fight between women is generally called a "catfight"—even if the fight escalates from hair-pulling to punches. Meaning, it's altogether inconsequential, and even at times mere entertainment. Is it possible that the security guards, all of whom were men, did not intervene (or instinctually break protocol) because a catfight is something that is not taken seriously? This crime has many interesting layers.
As for the murderous girl, her future is no brighter than that of the young man who beat the living daylights out of his teacher.
1
Interesting. I tried to think about what would happen on an El platform in Chicago if two people started fighting like that, with other passengers and "security" around. I actually thought it would be less likely for people to intervene if it was two men fighting, because there'd be a higher probability of a weapon. The likelihood that you, personally, would be hurt intervening with two girls is probably less.
I think people would be most likely to intervene with a woman and a man fighting (I've actually seen this happen on public transit and people intervene). Then two women, and least likely two men.
I think people would be most likely to intervene with a woman and a man fighting (I've actually seen this happen on public transit and people intervene). Then two women, and least likely two men.
3
Actually, Charles I think this makes a good point. I would only add that there is additionally an instinctual impulse to "butt out" when the combatants seem to be roughly evenly matched, as was the case here. Yes, the victim did get very much the overwhelming brunt of the punishment, but because it was a one-on-one situation, the bystanders, including the security staff, seemed reluctant to intervene. If, on the other hand, the victim had appeared to have been seriously outmatched, either because her attacker was physically larger, or because she was ganged-on, these onlookers MIGHT have exhibited more of an impulse to get involved.
No guarantee of course, but if that had been the case we probably would have seen at a couple of people at least make an attempt to separate them.
No guarantee of course, but if that had been the case we probably would have seen at a couple of people at least make an attempt to separate them.
4
I think the fact that the attacker had a posse of individuals in her immediate proximity had a lot to do with the guards not doing anything. They probably took one look at the group and assumed they were just as capable of performing such savagery.
5
That the assault was carried out by a 110 pound teenage girl probably explains the casual reaction.
Had the attacker been male, the guards would have scampered out of the way before radioing for help. They aren't paid, trained, armed, or legally signed off to act like real police.
Had the attacker been male, the guards would have scampered out of the way before radioing for help. They aren't paid, trained, armed, or legally signed off to act like real police.
6
Charles,
Another fine point. I agree, it just might have been a sexist response (or lack thereof). At first, it appears to be just pushing and shoving but once the victim is knocked down and the perpetrator starts kicking, security could have restrained the perp. The repeated kicking just indicates malevolence or flatout meaness. I think had there been two guys scrapping, two of the security personnel would have restrained them. The reason I believe this is because I have seen not a few unfortunately, bar room brawls and men usually restrain men. This incident does seem counterintuitive in that one would think it would be easier for two male security personnel to restrain a single teenage gal than say an adult man. But, in the end it's all speculation. There is much blame to spread. This video just boggles the mind.
Another fine point. I agree, it just might have been a sexist response (or lack thereof). At first, it appears to be just pushing and shoving but once the victim is knocked down and the perpetrator starts kicking, security could have restrained the perp. The repeated kicking just indicates malevolence or flatout meaness. I think had there been two guys scrapping, two of the security personnel would have restrained them. The reason I believe this is because I have seen not a few unfortunately, bar room brawls and men usually restrain men. This incident does seem counterintuitive in that one would think it would be easier for two male security personnel to restrain a single teenage gal than say an adult man. But, in the end it's all speculation. There is much blame to spread. This video just boggles the mind.
8
The rise in violence among young women is a serious issue today. I think Charles raises and interesting point, people regard female fights as more comical, and less serious than male fights. But, I also think that men are more likely to break up a fight when an authority figure intervenes. Young men have been socialized to fight for years, and part of that socialization is knowing where the limits are--when a security guard, teacher, or police officer intervenes, you stop (at least for the moment). Young women, however, don't understand these boundaries and it makes these fights all the more dangerous.
10
Anybody who has ever interacted with teenagers knows that fights between girls are usually worse than fights between boys.
Boys, often, not always, are posturing. There is no social pressure for teenage girls to pretend to fight, it's generally the real deal.
Boys, often, not always, are posturing. There is no social pressure for teenage girls to pretend to fight, it's generally the real deal.
11
no sir, this fight was about racism AND sexism. it's becoming increasingly clear that because these were young black teenagers the police, security guards and bystanders did nothing to help the poor girl nor step in to stop it. It's shameful and I'm saddened to read some of the responses to these posts.
12
@5, Yeah, David pointed that out yesterday:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
To me, it just seems like an extension of the results from the Milgram experiments:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_exp…
The guards clearly had it in their contracts to observe and report, not to intervene. When someone gives you a clear definition of responsibility (and has the potential to threaten legal action if you don't hold up to it) then the likelihood that you'll actually stay out of the way seems a lot higher.
If there's a double standard here, I think it's on those of us reacting to the story. I doubt this would even be news if it was a man beating another man - we'd just say these guys are doing their jobs. But women "need protection" - how could the guards be so callous as to stay out the way?
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
To me, it just seems like an extension of the results from the Milgram experiments:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_exp…
The guards clearly had it in their contracts to observe and report, not to intervene. When someone gives you a clear definition of responsibility (and has the potential to threaten legal action if you don't hold up to it) then the likelihood that you'll actually stay out of the way seems a lot higher.
If there's a double standard here, I think it's on those of us reacting to the story. I doubt this would even be news if it was a man beating another man - we'd just say these guys are doing their jobs. But women "need protection" - how could the guards be so callous as to stay out the way?
13
@6, that is exactly my point. @8, is also correct. men have a cultural instinct to restrain fighters. this has to be considered in this context.
14
A simpler explanation may be
1) Security guards aren't paid to deal with that crap. I did that at a corporate campus in college on weekends for extra money. If I saw a break-in or violent crime, for my $5-6/hour, I would NOT have gotten involved directly. Radio/call/stand back.
1a) If you work for minimum wage, are you going to get shot or hurt for it? Human nature says no. Self preservation > most else.
2) These people aren't trained and conditioned to jump in, and should NEVER have been there in the first place. Real cops, trained/paid/conditioned to jump in, should have been.
3) While these guards--being human--should have leapt in, they didn't, and on a human level I at the same time can't fault them for it as much as I fault them for not doing it.
4) Whose ass should be on the line? Whatever retard made the decision to use rent-a-cops instead of real cops in the tunnels.
How about investigating THAT, Stranger? FOIA is your friend.
1) Security guards aren't paid to deal with that crap. I did that at a corporate campus in college on weekends for extra money. If I saw a break-in or violent crime, for my $5-6/hour, I would NOT have gotten involved directly. Radio/call/stand back.
1a) If you work for minimum wage, are you going to get shot or hurt for it? Human nature says no. Self preservation > most else.
2) These people aren't trained and conditioned to jump in, and should NEVER have been there in the first place. Real cops, trained/paid/conditioned to jump in, should have been.
3) While these guards--being human--should have leapt in, they didn't, and on a human level I at the same time can't fault them for it as much as I fault them for not doing it.
4) Whose ass should be on the line? Whatever retard made the decision to use rent-a-cops instead of real cops in the tunnels.
How about investigating THAT, Stranger? FOIA is your friend.
15
Let me be more clear on the rent-a-cop thing. Why do we have private security guards in place? Why don't we have actual police in our transit system like other cities do?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Ci…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachuset…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Trans…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_Ri…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_Ri…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Tr…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Tr…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Author…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolita…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Por…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeaster…
If the tunnels are King County, we even have a handy unit already in place:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_County…
It's not like we can't shove one of them plus one SPD officer into each station all the time--one upstairs, one downstairs. Rotate, visible, done.
More...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Ci…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachuset…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Trans…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_Ri…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_Ri…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Tr…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Tr…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Author…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolita…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Por…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeaster…
If the tunnels are King County, we even have a handy unit already in place:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_County…
It's not like we can't shove one of them plus one SPD officer into each station all the time--one upstairs, one downstairs. Rotate, visible, done.
16
I have seen a few cat fights in my day, and that was no cat fight. That was a fucking stomping. Big difference.
17
@15
Exactly. These guards should be immediately let go. In fact, their company's contract should be ended. In their place, real transit police should be hired.
Exactly. These guards should be immediately let go. In fact, their company's contract should be ended. In their place, real transit police should be hired.
18
I wouldn't be surprised to discover the "Security" Guards stayed out of it to make a point. They may be glaringly aware of the Observe and Report status they hold and have a problem with real security being above their pay grade. So the guards could have been trying to make a point, and have a culture of strict interpretation of Metro's non-intervention policy. Sort of a "Train us and let us do our jobs and this wouldn't have to happen" attitude.
If it is sexism, racism or the like, fire them and prosecute them.
If it is sexism, racism or the like, fire them and prosecute them.
19
I think we should be like Cali and cut taxes even more so we have to let more people out of our jails.
Right?
Oh, and let's let them carry concealed weapons in the tunnel.
Then everything will be right as rain ...
Right?
Oh, and let's let them carry concealed weapons in the tunnel.
Then everything will be right as rain ...
20
@17 Not having actual police in a core public infrastructure like this is just stupid--it'd be like having rent-a-cops patrolling the airport. No other major city worth a damn does this.
I really, really, really want to know what idiot decided the cost benefits of having this private firm in the tunnels was a good idea.
I really, really, really want to know what idiot decided the cost benefits of having this private firm in the tunnels was a good idea.
22
I agree that we need actual police in the tunnels. This is a ridiculous situation, and for the city to suddenly announce that these untrained "security" folks are allowed to intervene is not going to make them suddenly effective.
23
Im sorry Charles. I think that is BS. Its true that men could think this way, but the real answer is that those security guards were cowards and idiots
Ive worked security at Nightclubs, and women got in fights many times, and no one let it go for the enjoyment of the cat fight. Also, We had a policy that if fight happened off our property (across the street, in a parking lot, etc..) we were supposed to call the police and not get involved.
However on several occaisions, common sense and decency compelled us to run across the street to break up a fight when it turned to the level of someone getting their head stomped on. (like this girl was).
The Metro Security may have a sexist outlook. But the truth is they were just lazy cowards, with out the ability to think beyond their guidelines.
Ive worked security at Nightclubs, and women got in fights many times, and no one let it go for the enjoyment of the cat fight. Also, We had a policy that if fight happened off our property (across the street, in a parking lot, etc..) we were supposed to call the police and not get involved.
However on several occaisions, common sense and decency compelled us to run across the street to break up a fight when it turned to the level of someone getting their head stomped on. (like this girl was).
The Metro Security may have a sexist outlook. But the truth is they were just lazy cowards, with out the ability to think beyond their guidelines.
24
@20 & 22. You are both right. Actual police would be best. But there is no reason security guards cant be trained and held to a higher standard plus given better operating protocol.
25
@ Charles, @1, @16 --
@5 is right on. I'm a teacher. I've seen an able bodied man try to break up a girl fight and get put in the hospital. In the immortal words of Taylor Mali, "If two boys are fighting, I break it up. But if two girls are fighting, I wait until that shit's over and drag whatever's left to the principal's office". (Or yell for security. Breaking up a girl fight is not within my abilities.)
Now, we could discuss how fucked up *that* is -- how girl fights are so much scarier than boys, because they really seem to want to kill each other -- but there is no way that anyone could mistake a girl fight for harmless when you're actually LOOKING at one. They are terrifying.
@5 is right on. I'm a teacher. I've seen an able bodied man try to break up a girl fight and get put in the hospital. In the immortal words of Taylor Mali, "If two boys are fighting, I break it up. But if two girls are fighting, I wait until that shit's over and drag whatever's left to the principal's office". (Or yell for security. Breaking up a girl fight is not within my abilities.)
Now, we could discuss how fucked up *that* is -- how girl fights are so much scarier than boys, because they really seem to want to kill each other -- but there is no way that anyone could mistake a girl fight for harmless when you're actually LOOKING at one. They are terrifying.
27
I really appreciate it when Charles makes the headlines batshit-crazy. Much better than when he posts a reasonable headline and then quotes an outside source in the lede. It's so frustrating to be halfway through an article, realize that it has just turned into nonsense, and to only then check the byline and give up.
Yes, Charles. Sexism was at the heart of the tunnel beating. Because people don't exist as distinct personalities, only as extensions of their race/gender/sexuality/religion. If it had been boys fighting and female security guards, it would be the sexism of the boys not respecting the guards' authority. Boys fighting, male guards: sexism of disregarding potential harm to female bystanders. Girls fighting, female guards: sexism of other parties not taking action.
Because it's always an -ism representing the abstract and general, never individual people.
Yes, Charles. Sexism was at the heart of the tunnel beating. Because people don't exist as distinct personalities, only as extensions of their race/gender/sexuality/religion. If it had been boys fighting and female security guards, it would be the sexism of the boys not respecting the guards' authority. Boys fighting, male guards: sexism of disregarding potential harm to female bystanders. Girls fighting, female guards: sexism of other parties not taking action.
Because it's always an -ism representing the abstract and general, never individual people.
29
My high school hall monitor refused to get into fights between two girls. "Guys fight to show who's in charge. The bitches are out for blood. You pull one of them off the other and she'll go after you, or the other one goes after her because she can't fight back."
30
This isn't about girls. It's an extension of our generalized cultural ambivalence around bullying and childhood violence. Children in schools are allowed to hound, harass, and attack others and the consequences are staggeringly weak. Kids that are shaken down for lunch money or attacked for being different don't have any real recourse because they are unlikely to be taken seriously and because schools rely on weak administrative responses like detention and stern talkings-to. A kid can run a gang of thugs that conducts dozens of assaults daily and will never see a response like adults get (police action, charges filed, etc).
The only thing that separates these 15-year-old girls from a similar group of 15-year-old boys is that the girls fly under the radar just a little longer because they're considered less physically dangerous.
The only thing that separates these 15-year-old girls from a similar group of 15-year-old boys is that the girls fly under the radar just a little longer because they're considered less physically dangerous.
31
Funny, kids in Wallingford don't run around trying to kill each other, yet they live in this society.
34
@25 & @26:
Interesting and definitely counterintuitive.
I could have stopped this particular girl fight with a single punch, and if it involved a woman I cared about, I would have. But I guess as a teacher you aren't allowed to use force to break these things up.
Interesting and definitely counterintuitive.
I could have stopped this particular girl fight with a single punch, and if it involved a woman I cared about, I would have. But I guess as a teacher you aren't allowed to use force to break these things up.
35
#34... There are ways to physically get involved and stop fights with out resorting to punching someone or even hurting them. Punching them only is going to escalate the fight. Especially (like in this case) if the person has several friends around. Now you are going to be attacked as well.
36
@ 31, I attended Hamilton middle School, which I recall being on the outskirts of Wallingford. Holy shit, fights broke out all the time. I have never encountered more vicious girls in my life than I had there.
37
coolio @35:
If you are making a practical point, I disagree - the best way to end a fight, practically speaking, would be render one of the fighters unconscious or dead. A punch is but one of many ways to accomplish this.
If you are moralizing, I also disagree. If someone violently attacks me or someone I care about, I believe the ethical response is to meet the attacker on his/her own terms rather than assert some snotty moral high ground.
If you are making a practical point, I disagree - the best way to end a fight, practically speaking, would be render one of the fighters unconscious or dead. A punch is but one of many ways to accomplish this.
If you are moralizing, I also disagree. If someone violently attacks me or someone I care about, I believe the ethical response is to meet the attacker on his/her own terms rather than assert some snotty moral high ground.
38
@33 Patti
""Ian Smith", one of them is from Wallingford. Try to catch up, dear."
Trolls like Ian Smith are never privy to letting pesky little things like facts get in the way of their impulsive knee-jerk invective.
""Ian Smith", one of them is from Wallingford. Try to catch up, dear."
Trolls like Ian Smith are never privy to letting pesky little things like facts get in the way of their impulsive knee-jerk invective.
39
Seandr #37
you reasoning is fine if your engaged in mortal combat. But not all street fights are that serious.
Im not being "snotty" but yes, I am taking a moral high ground. But IM not preaching pacifism, only self control.
Your approach leads me to guess you have a lack of confidence, knowledge, and the ability to handle such a situation... Maybe Im wrong. Im sure your a big tough guy and all. But haveing the ability to engage in violence with out the ability to control yourself or take the snotty high ground just makes you another animal.
you reasoning is fine if your engaged in mortal combat. But not all street fights are that serious.
Im not being "snotty" but yes, I am taking a moral high ground. But IM not preaching pacifism, only self control.
Your approach leads me to guess you have a lack of confidence, knowledge, and the ability to handle such a situation... Maybe Im wrong. Im sure your a big tough guy and all. But haveing the ability to engage in violence with out the ability to control yourself or take the snotty high ground just makes you another animal.
40
charles, could you please explain to me how a catfight is any different than a hoarse-killing oops, killing a whore? nope, maybe the third time is a charm: killing a horse?
42
And I wonder how much coverage of this would be different, if the Security Guards were WOMEN.
I constantly hear "THESE THREE MEN" should have intervened, even if it meant getting fired or disciplined, arrested (because hey, you can't just go laying hands on a person unless you're a Police Officer), or beaten to a pulp by the off-camera 10-man entourage.
If it had been three women in security vests, would people still be insisting that they should have jumped in?
I constantly hear "THESE THREE MEN" should have intervened, even if it meant getting fired or disciplined, arrested (because hey, you can't just go laying hands on a person unless you're a Police Officer), or beaten to a pulp by the off-camera 10-man entourage.
If it had been three women in security vests, would people still be insisting that they should have jumped in?
43
CHARLES IS RIGHT IT'S ALL ABOUT SEXISM WOMYN WOULD NEVER INFLICT VIOLENCE ON ANOTHER WOMYN EXCEPT WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN DIRECTED BY A SOME DICKHEAD MAN WITH HIS DICKHEAD VIOLENCE MENTALITY.
WOMYN NURTURE WOMYN FIGHT THE PENIS!
WOMYN NURTURE WOMYN FIGHT THE PENIS!
44
I think it's about black children being invisible to us. How could those guards on the tape, and the police upstairs (apparently) have ignored this girl's request for protection? The guards quite literally acted as if she weren't there, when she's obviously talking to them and asking for help. We - this society - don't see black youth. We ignore the acting out, the preening and posing, the obnoxious behavior - because we don't want to intervene as if it's not our problem, not ever gonna be our problem. Then when something happens (and let's not kid ourselves, if this had not been on tape it wouldn't have happened for most of our collective consiousness) we act all surprised and confused - where are the parents, where are the cops? Where are we? I'm willing to bet that if the security guys had formed a wall of guy around the victim and TALKED to the other kids (as in, hey, don't start trouble here, get on the next bus or get out, etc.) the other kids would have been so shocked that someone NOTICED them, that they would have backed off. They didn't need to have special training or guns or hi-ya karate chops; they only needed to interact with the parties involved as if they were alive and making an impact on their surroundings.
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