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News & ArtsThursday, February 11, 2010
Homo Americans Think Gay Men and Lesbians Should Be Able to Serve Openly in the Armed Forces...
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:35 PM
...but not homosexuals. John at Americablog:
CBS just found that if you ask Americans how they feel about "gay men and lesbians" serving in the military, a large majority support it. But if you ask people whether "homosexuals" should be allowed to serve in the military, support drops. Bottom line: Homosexual is a nasty, clinical-sounding word with nasty connotations for far too many Americans. It's what I've argued for years, and have been routinely beaten up by some in the gay community who claim I'm nuts - namely, that no one should use this offensive word and we should correct anyone who does. It now appears I'm not so nuts after all.
The difference a name makes really is quite shocking on this issue:
Serve in the military
Gay men and lesbians 70%
Homosexuals 59%Serve OPENLY in the military
Gay men and lesbians 58%
Homosexuals 44%
For many Americans gay men and lesbians = Will and Ellen, I guess, while homosexuals = preverts and pedophiles. Back to John:
So Americans don't really have a problem with gays in the military or with them being open about it. In fact, the numbers are absurdly good, even when you use the charged word "openly." People simply don't like the word homosexual. And that is why the religious right uses the word every chance it gets. Any time you hear or read someone using the word homosexual, correct them on the spot. If it's a reporter or a politician or a TV personality, send them an email or a letter. Treat it like it's a slur. Because it is.
3
So in states that have passed "Gay" marriage are Lesbians left out?
Do they have to go back and pass laws to legalize Lesbian Marriage, too?
Dan, be sure to correct them...
Do they have to go back and pass laws to legalize Lesbian Marriage, too?
Dan, be sure to correct them...
4
They should run they same poll asking if heterosexuals should be allowed to serve in the military.
6
the word homosexual is offensive, christ... it's an accurate description - homo -sexual. this is the same word-police bullshit at "black" being offensive to African Americans.
The bias behind the word may be offensive, but the word itself is plainly true and harmless. Gay on the other hand is a culturally appropriated term, which is fine, but I find its descriptive nature the more offensive (as a gay/homosexual male) because of the stereotypical connotations of the limp wristed, lisping, nelly prancing queer it evokes. I'm a bit tired of being told what I can and cannot call people if the words involved are no more then accurate and descriptive.
The bias behind the word may be offensive, but the word itself is plainly true and harmless. Gay on the other hand is a culturally appropriated term, which is fine, but I find its descriptive nature the more offensive (as a gay/homosexual male) because of the stereotypical connotations of the limp wristed, lisping, nelly prancing queer it evokes. I'm a bit tired of being told what I can and cannot call people if the words involved are no more then accurate and descriptive.
7
Just because it tests poorly it does not necessarily follow that it is a "slur." Claiming that gays should suddenly start acting offended when they hear this merely descriptive word is a pretty good example of the sort of knee-jerk identity politics that the Right is always beating us up over.
Yes, use the word that tests better. No, do not retroactively brand "homosexual" hate speech.
Yes, use the word that tests better. No, do not retroactively brand "homosexual" hate speech.
9
There should be a world like "gay" for people who are attracted to children too, since most people think "pedophile" means child rapist. I suggest using the word "cool".
11
Awesome, now the new campaign is gonna be to forbid the actual medical and societal term that's used by all even those who identify as such. And then they deny that almost all they do is basically pr campaign.
12
Yeah, and here we want to govern based on public opinion surveys.
This is not unlike how recent health care reform bills haven't been doing well in polling. And yet, the elements of health care reform poll well. And you just wonder how much anyone answering any of those surveys actually knows about any given bill they're giving the up or down to.
Please forgive the slight detour to a different issue. Fivethirtyeight had a good post yesterday on DADT polling of Republican voters:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/02/r…
This is not unlike how recent health care reform bills haven't been doing well in polling. And yet, the elements of health care reform poll well. And you just wonder how much anyone answering any of those surveys actually knows about any given bill they're giving the up or down to.
Please forgive the slight detour to a different issue. Fivethirtyeight had a good post yesterday on DADT polling of Republican voters:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/02/r…
13
This is only a problem because gays and lesbians LET themselves be offended by the word "homosexuality." Obviously.
14
Good lord Americans are dumb. So fucking dumb. This is beyond Picard's facepalm. I actually want to cry.
16
@6 - Poor you. You have to deal with the fact that words have meanings and connotations granted to them by society and you can't just use them to mean whatever you want them to. I know how you feel. I absolutely *hate* that when I want to use the word "toaster" to refer to my cat, everyone thinks I'm talking about the toaster!
The point is, this song ain't about you. I think the way people's rights and place in society is affected when we use certain words is a teensy weensy bit more important than your right to use whatever the fuck word you want to. Grow up.
The point is, this song ain't about you. I think the way people's rights and place in society is affected when we use certain words is a teensy weensy bit more important than your right to use whatever the fuck word you want to. Grow up.
17
Heterosexuality was also originally used to describe abnormal sexual behavior. Over time, the terms evolved to describe two poles of sexual attraction.
http://people.ucalgary.ca/~ptrembla/homo…
http://people.ucalgary.ca/~ptrembla/homo…
18
@11 - Um, however the word "homosexual" may have started as a neutral, medical and scientific term, it's YOUR crowd that has given it the current, de-humanized connotation it has.
19
@17 - Pfft. Don't be silly. Meanings of words don't change! And hey, "negro" just means "black," in Spanish, so I should be able to use that one, too, right? If anyone's offended, it's their problem.
21
Well said, #16. The Anita Bryants of this country (remember that menace?) cling to the word "homosexual" in order to a) keep the (abberant) sex in it, and b) link it to the terms used in Leviticus. People who use it tend to have an anti-gay agenda, and that made it offensive. You rarely hear enlightened, tolerant people using that term. "Homosexual marriage" is an ugly combo of words, one so beautiful and one so clinical.
22
Those of us who care about this issue enough to give it real thought on a regular basis will, of course, be pretty well immune to the difference in subtle meaning and connotation between "gay and lesbian" and "homosexual"; we wouldn't answer the survey any differently.
However, what if we switch to a different topic? I'd bet you any money that if I surveyed two groups of gay rights activists about the rights of "the mentally ill" vs. the rights of "people with a mental illness," we'd see the same differences in response.
However, what if we switch to a different topic? I'd bet you any money that if I surveyed two groups of gay rights activists about the rights of "the mentally ill" vs. the rights of "people with a mental illness," we'd see the same differences in response.
23
20 - Good point. Therefore, we can totally ignore the way in which the meanings of words will affect the way people think about and treat gays and lesbians, because that's way less important than what you think is or isn't "retarded."
24
I'm often one of the first to point out that words mean things however I also have to point out that words mean the things that the people saying them believe they mean. When the Evangelicals use the word homosexual they mean it as a slur and therefor it is one, and if they do that long enough and often enough then other people start making that same negative association (which, of course, is the whole point of a slur). It's like the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder (it's all about intent).
25
See the problem is you don't understand the power of labels.
Lesbian or gay men means people who are like us.
Homosexuals mean those activist ACT UP folks that yell and never get anything done, just like those activist "Justices" at the US Supreme Court that say American citizens are all serfs who have less freedom of speech than Corporations which can't be jailed, can't be drafted, and can't be executed for stealing money from someone.
Lesbian or gay men means people who are like us.
Homosexuals mean those activist ACT UP folks that yell and never get anything done, just like those activist "Justices" at the US Supreme Court that say American citizens are all serfs who have less freedom of speech than Corporations which can't be jailed, can't be drafted, and can't be executed for stealing money from someone.
26
I work for a survey and polling company and I actually agree with #4--try asking the questions again with the word heterosexual.
Fewer people than you would imagine actually know what "homosexual" means. I got into hot water on this one myself when I did a survey of people with HIV and a substantial percentage of women said that they contracted it through homosexual contact (I should have said "sex with a woman" and "sex with a man").
Fewer people than you would imagine actually know what "homosexual" means. I got into hot water on this one myself when I did a survey of people with HIV and a substantial percentage of women said that they contracted it through homosexual contact (I should have said "sex with a woman" and "sex with a man").
27
This reminds me irresistibly of several people I know who can't seem to grasp the simple concept that the word "Chinaman" is offensive because of its historical context and the way it was used to denigrate even while the seemingly equivalent term "Englishman" isn't.
Compare it to "Negro," if that makes it easier. Negro was once a term of simple description, but it came to be considered a slur; "homosexual," when used as a noun, has a similarly negative history, which is exactly why religious right-wing nutjobs use it (much like racist nutjobs use "Negro" -- to be deliberately offensive) and why gay people don't.
Compare it to "Negro," if that makes it easier. Negro was once a term of simple description, but it came to be considered a slur; "homosexual," when used as a noun, has a similarly negative history, which is exactly why religious right-wing nutjobs use it (much like racist nutjobs use "Negro" -- to be deliberately offensive) and why gay people don't.
28
Precisely @24. The issue here isn't whether the word "homosexual" is in point of fact offensive to gays and lesbians; it is rather, that a significant portion of our population (regardless of their sexual orientation, but in the case of this poll one must conclude the overwhelming majority of the people interviewed were straight) PERCEIVE the word as having a negative connotation, hence the difference of opinion depending upon which term was used.
31
I have had conversations with pretty bright friends who get all bent out of shape that "Indian" is a term that is considered politically incorrect (I'm caucasian), or that what is politically correct to call black people keeps changing. "Well what SHOULD we call them?" My answer is to call them whatever they prefer to be called, and get over it. Worth pointing out, though, that not everyone who uses "chinaman", "Indian" or "homosexual" means any offense by it. Of those 3 terms, I believe "Homosexual" is the one used most often to be intentionally disparaging.
32
@31: I know plenty who makeum big stink over being called "native american" and would rather be called by their tribe's name or just plain ol' "indian".
33
I'm disappointed they didn't poll people on their opinions on letting pickle smokers serve in the military...
34
From the 2003 right-wing/Christianist scare text "The Homosexual Agenda" by Alliance Defense Fund writers Alan Sears and Craig Osten:
"In this book, we will only use the word gay when it is part of a direct quote from other material. It is our belief that gay is a primarily political term used by radical homosexual activists to take attention away from their sexual behavior. In a conference in the early 1970s, a decision was made by a group of activisits to purposefully label homosexuals and their behaviors as gay in order to reposition them politically. One of their goals was to get the general public to use the word gay instead of homosexual since they believed gay would take the onus off homosexual behavior."
"In this book, we will only use the word gay when it is part of a direct quote from other material. It is our belief that gay is a primarily political term used by radical homosexual activists to take attention away from their sexual behavior. In a conference in the early 1970s, a decision was made by a group of activisits to purposefully label homosexuals and their behaviors as gay in order to reposition them politically. One of their goals was to get the general public to use the word gay instead of homosexual since they believed gay would take the onus off homosexual behavior."
35
I've never liked the way homosexual drips out of the mouths of the haters and gay has been my word of choice going back to middle school.
But still, I long for a day where we're all just folks.
But still, I long for a day where we're all just folks.
36
On that subject, it looks like 1LT Dan Choi is going back into the army.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35340034
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35340034
37
Mom: That's the most adorable little colored girl playing outside.
Steve: "Colored"? You're saying "colored people" in 1988? You know better, Ma.
Mom: Then why the "National Association for Colored People? I don't think Negroes mind at all.
Steve: Don't say "Negroes," Ma! You can't say "Negroes"!
Mom: Can I say "United Negro College Fund"?
Steve: You are baiting me, Ma!
Dad: That's it. We're leaving.
Mom: Stay put, Reginald. "Mister Socially Sensitive"isn't finished shaming his parents into enlightenment.
Steve: Everybody just calm down. Let's agree to use the the New-Age term "People of Color."
Mom: People of Color.
Steve: People of Color.
Mom: Colored people.
Steve: NO!
Dad: We're leaving.
--Bloom County
Steve: "Colored"? You're saying "colored people" in 1988? You know better, Ma.
Mom: Then why the "National Association for Colored People? I don't think Negroes mind at all.
Steve: Don't say "Negroes," Ma! You can't say "Negroes"!
Mom: Can I say "United Negro College Fund"?
Steve: You are baiting me, Ma!
Dad: That's it. We're leaving.
Mom: Stay put, Reginald. "Mister Socially Sensitive"isn't finished shaming his parents into enlightenment.
Steve: Everybody just calm down. Let's agree to use the the New-Age term "People of Color."
Mom: People of Color.
Steve: People of Color.
Mom: Colored people.
Steve: NO!
Dad: We're leaving.
--Bloom County
39
#2 beat me to it, but it's not all people who are freaked out by it, it's Americans. Fucking prudes.
40
Wonkette said it best.
Infer what you will from this latest polling of Dumb America. Probably the simplest and therefore most correct explanation is, “Whoa shit, lesbians! Nice!!”
Infer what you will from this latest polling of Dumb America. Probably the simplest and therefore most correct explanation is, “Whoa shit, lesbians! Nice!!”
42
#40 probably something to that...
"gays and lesbians" = hey, chicks gettin' it on
"homosexuals" = men puttin' it in the pooper
"gays and lesbians" = hey, chicks gettin' it on
"homosexuals" = men puttin' it in the pooper
43
The problem here, unlike the word nigger, is that homosexual has a scientific meaning. are homosocial relations politically incorrect because it makes jocks feel awkward when they grab eachother's butt?
This has nothing to do political correctness. This is about the general population being total retards.
This has nothing to do political correctness. This is about the general population being total retards.
44
@16 huh? Calling a cat a toaster is not the same as using the word homosexual to refer to, well, to a homosexual. Of course the cat doesn't know either word most likely, what they do know is the tone of voice, which for the cat serves as the connotation. I DO understand that words have connotative meaning, I mentioned that I felt the connotation in "gay" offended me more than the connotated meaning in "homosexual" . As I said, it's the bias (intent) behind the word that matters, so a person using 'homosexual' hatefully is being hateful, but the word itself is neither being hateful nor inherently hateful. So it is perfectly possible to use the word homosexual hatefully and respectfully, happily, whatever-ly - the context, tone, etc. are what deliver the connotated meaning. To me it reduces the language for everyone, not just little ol' poor me, if a word becomes socially unusable because SOME people use it in certain contexts or deliver it in a hateful way.
I don't think I said anything that would indicate I believe the "song was about me" rather the opposite, but part of adulthood is not being overly sensitive to either real or perceived slights - and in the face of slights, that perhaps the best response is to refuse to be hurt or offended - usually that response infuriates the slur slinger far more than anything else - they practically explode.
I really like the word queer because it really occupies both spaces - it's a slur and it's a proud and positive reference - it's all in the delivery and I want the word queer around and used, by everyone, for a very long time
I don't think I said anything that would indicate I believe the "song was about me" rather the opposite, but part of adulthood is not being overly sensitive to either real or perceived slights - and in the face of slights, that perhaps the best response is to refuse to be hurt or offended - usually that response infuriates the slur slinger far more than anything else - they practically explode.
I really like the word queer because it really occupies both spaces - it's a slur and it's a proud and positive reference - it's all in the delivery and I want the word queer around and used, by everyone, for a very long time
45
I think many homophobic heterosexuals, particularly older people, don't understand that homosexuals are people just like them. "Homosexual" to them must mean that all those people ever think or care about is sex, sex, sex, otherwise they wouldn't be called "homoSEXuals", right? Heterosexuals think of themselves as more complete persons, able to appreciate the person of the opposite sex for more than their genitals - they indeed don't define themselves as heteroSEXuals. Gays and lesbians might be people just like them, who they can empathize with, unlike with those nasty homoSEXuals who are all about sex.
46
#43 It's the very fact that it has a scientific origin as a term used to describe a pathology and a history of being used in that way is precisely the problem.
48
Language is eternally mutable and every era has its socially unacceptable terminologies. They change with social mores. It is now acceptable to talk about piano legs and chicken breasts. One may even show one's ankles in public without censure now.
The meanings of words change. That's the way language works. Gay no longer means only what it used to mean. Neither does cool, or bad, or sweet. Nouns become verbs. Retarded used to be a description, not an insult. Colored used to be the polite way to refer to people with African ancestry.
The meanings of words change. That's the way language works. Gay no longer means only what it used to mean. Neither does cool, or bad, or sweet. Nouns become verbs. Retarded used to be a description, not an insult. Colored used to be the polite way to refer to people with African ancestry.
49
I'm less concerned with the offensive nature of the word "homosexual" (though it's wholly descriptive and isn't by its nature offensive at all) than I am with the idiots they're polling, who apparently think homosexuals are something different from gay men and lesbians. I should think they're not polling the same group twice, because then the discrepancy would be asinine, so I think the more interesting part of the experiment would be to put them all in a room together and have the "gay/lesbian" respondents explain to the other group what "homosexual" means. A rose by any other name still deserves its civil rights.
50
Presumably, @47 you're referring to the Spanish-Language census forms where the word "negro" (NEH-grow) would of course translate to "black", as opposed to, say, the Anglicized word (NEE-grow) showing up on the English-language version.
51
34
andrew, are you being ironic?
we can't tell.
you quote from a 2003 right-wing/Christianist SCARE TEXT:
"In a conference in the early 1970s, a decision was made by a group of activisits to purposefully label homosexuals and their behaviors as gay in order to reposition them politically. One of their goals was to get the general public to use the word gay instead of homosexual since they believed gay would take the onus off homosexual behavior."
This in a post where our Beloved Leader has just instructed us "to purposefully label homosexuals and their behaviors as gay in order to reposition them politically" and to "get the general public to use the word gay instead of homosexual since they believed gay would take the onus off".
So are you making the point that the 2003 right-wing/Christianist SCARE TEXT was dead on?
andrew, are you being ironic?
we can't tell.
you quote from a 2003 right-wing/Christianist SCARE TEXT:
"In a conference in the early 1970s, a decision was made by a group of activisits to purposefully label homosexuals and their behaviors as gay in order to reposition them politically. One of their goals was to get the general public to use the word gay instead of homosexual since they believed gay would take the onus off homosexual behavior."
This in a post where our Beloved Leader has just instructed us "to purposefully label homosexuals and their behaviors as gay in order to reposition them politically" and to "get the general public to use the word gay instead of homosexual since they believed gay would take the onus off".
So are you making the point that the 2003 right-wing/Christianist SCARE TEXT was dead on?
53
50
Presumably not.
The United States Census Bureau announced that Negro would be included on the 2010 United States Census, alongside "Black" and "African-American," because some older Americans still self-identify with the term.
(The word Negro was used to refer to a person of Black ancestry prior to the shift in the lexicon of American and worldwide classification of race and ethnicity in the late 1960s. The appellation was accepted as a normal and was used by those of Black African descent as well as those of non-African black descent during the eras prior to the Civil Rights movement.)
Presumably not.
The United States Census Bureau announced that Negro would be included on the 2010 United States Census, alongside "Black" and "African-American," because some older Americans still self-identify with the term.
(The word Negro was used to refer to a person of Black ancestry prior to the shift in the lexicon of American and worldwide classification of race and ethnicity in the late 1960s. The appellation was accepted as a normal and was used by those of Black African descent as well as those of non-African black descent during the eras prior to the Civil Rights movement.)
54
I am genuinely confused as to why the word "homosexual" would be considered a slur. Anyone care to explain? Forgive me if it's already posted in the thread, I didn't feel like digging through.
55
Wow...what a difference two different terms make. See, the fact that you get totally different responses just by changing ONE WORD/PHRASE that doesn't affect the meaning is a good example of how dumb this country is.
Homosexual just sounds scarier to uptight people because it has the word "sex" in it, I think. "Gay" just means "well, he's a little girly" to them, and they read lesbian as "she doesn't like boys". But "homosexual", because of that fateful third syllable, makes them think of buttsecks and scissoring and other things that make them feel uncomfortable. Kinda like what #45 said.
But no, Dan, it's not a slur. Calling a gay man homosexual is like calling someone who can't metabolize aspartame a phenylketonuric; it's a little more technical than is usually needed, but it's quite true and not really offensive.
Homosexual just sounds scarier to uptight people because it has the word "sex" in it, I think. "Gay" just means "well, he's a little girly" to them, and they read lesbian as "she doesn't like boys". But "homosexual", because of that fateful third syllable, makes them think of buttsecks and scissoring and other things that make them feel uncomfortable. Kinda like what #45 said.
But no, Dan, it's not a slur. Calling a gay man homosexual is like calling someone who can't metabolize aspartame a phenylketonuric; it's a little more technical than is usually needed, but it's quite true and not really offensive.
56
I work with the elderly, and have to ask them how they identify ethnically as a part of my job. Plenty of people would prefer an option other than "White, African American, American Indian, Hispanic, Asian, or Other", which is what the State of PA offers at present. I've certainly heard "Negro" once or twice.
57
#47/#53, if you think "Negro" is acceptable, then you'll feel comfortable referring to the next black person you see as such, won't you. Care to place bets about how that will be received? Also, I see you've been reading the Wikipedia entry "Negro." Shame you didn't read carefully enough to discover that although the term will be an option on the 2010 census, the decision is controversial and many find it deeply offensive.
58
@44
Thank you for naming the stray cat who's always yowling at my front door. "Toaster", I like it.
Thank you for naming the stray cat who's always yowling at my front door. "Toaster", I like it.
59
It's about personalization. To the average reader, gay men and lesbians are individual people that you may meet or know or care about; "homosexuals" are an activist group, a stereotype-fullfilling cariacature that never boils down to a face in the crowd.
There are a lot of comparisons to African-Americans being bandied about in this thread. I would say a close analogy would be to people who refer to "blacks" and to people who say "black people". The latter recognizes individual humanity, the former is a faceless group to which any number of prejudices can be ascribed.
There are a lot of comparisons to African-Americans being bandied about in this thread. I would say a close analogy would be to people who refer to "blacks" and to people who say "black people". The latter recognizes individual humanity, the former is a faceless group to which any number of prejudices can be ascribed.
60
Not sure if this is on topic but the word gay seems to be very commonly used as an expletive amongst the younger generation. I finally had enough of hearing a co-worker who is otherwise gay friendly using the phrase "that's so gay" to describe how much she hated something, thought is was stupid etc...and when I called her on it I had to explain why i found it offensive, like wtf? That usage of the word gay always gives me the same knee jerk reaction I get to the N word and other slurs. Is it just me?
62
I think the really odd thing is that when asked whether fags and dykes should be able to serve in the military the percentage that approved rose to 85%.
63
I realize this is old: graffiti spotted on teahouse wall:
"My mother made me a homosexual."
[reponse]
"If I give her some yarn, will she make me one?"
Usage dictates this bit of badinage fails by substituting 'gay' for 'homosexual'. The hardest job in this town is to be a vigilant "self-editor"; meaning you can't cry "homosexual" in a crowded theatre - the clear and present danger concept and all that.
Wasn't it Joan of Arc who fearlessly met death in a pile of flaming faggots?
"Give me words or give me meth." Patrick Henry
"My mother made me a homosexual."
[reponse]
"If I give her some yarn, will she make me one?"
Usage dictates this bit of badinage fails by substituting 'gay' for 'homosexual'. The hardest job in this town is to be a vigilant "self-editor"; meaning you can't cry "homosexual" in a crowded theatre - the clear and present danger concept and all that.
Wasn't it Joan of Arc who fearlessly met death in a pile of flaming faggots?
"Give me words or give me meth." Patrick Henry
64
I proudly served with an OUTSTANDING AIRMAN who was closeted at the time (Hey MIKE!) and without a doubt he served his country with honor and distinction.
Screw "polls"; the Obama administration should do the right thing. E.O. the "Openly Gay is OK!" (Dan, is there a poll/grass-roots campaign title here?) policy and let DOD figure out the rest. The Uniform Code of Military Justice already dictates rules governing public behavior in uniform; the rest should be no one else's business.
I'm ashamed that Americans who wish to serve in uniform can only do it if they're straight or lie about who they want to sleep with.
Bottom line.
I don't want my country defended just by straight people. I want it defended by good people.
Screw "polls"; the Obama administration should do the right thing. E.O. the "Openly Gay is OK!" (Dan, is there a poll/grass-roots campaign title here?) policy and let DOD figure out the rest. The Uniform Code of Military Justice already dictates rules governing public behavior in uniform; the rest should be no one else's business.
I'm ashamed that Americans who wish to serve in uniform can only do it if they're straight or lie about who they want to sleep with.
Bottom line.
I don't want my country defended just by straight people. I want it defended by good people.
66
Its never been about the words, its always been about intent. When you try and drive on me in the lane and I swat yo weak shit into next week and say, “nigga please” you don’t have to question the etymology of the word, you know what you feel because you know how I feel.
A major issue here is the written word vs. the spoken word. Say gay. Go one say it. Gay. Feel good, feel happy? Sure why not. Now say homosexual. Say Homo. Say sexual. Both are either part or full insults (sexual predator). Now really say it, say it the way those who fear the idea say it: “homuh-sess-youall”.
Personally I don’t like either, they’re both silly. Why not say what you feel, I have friends who are faaAAAAbulousss and some who are boiiyyyyssszzsss and most just have first names. Don’t know their name, ask em, get to know em. Can’t be bothered? Then you don’t have to call them on the fone or refer to them. They’re not your problem and you’re not theirs. The relationship is over.
The eternal frenzy for putting all things on gawds green earth in little tight fitting compartmental categories has always baffled me. Sorry to those who work diligently in the census or in focus groups or care too much about demographics. But I hope all folks out there will reclaim who they are and not what others label them as. Please feel free to plagiarize my answers to all these questions:
Race: Other / mixed (they’re still finding our ancestors’ bones all over Tropical Areas Worldwide)
Sex: often as I can, thanks for asking
Orientation: low and to the left, care to help redirect?
A major issue here is the written word vs. the spoken word. Say gay. Go one say it. Gay. Feel good, feel happy? Sure why not. Now say homosexual. Say Homo. Say sexual. Both are either part or full insults (sexual predator). Now really say it, say it the way those who fear the idea say it: “homuh-sess-youall”.
Personally I don’t like either, they’re both silly. Why not say what you feel, I have friends who are faaAAAAbulousss and some who are boiiyyyyssszzsss and most just have first names. Don’t know their name, ask em, get to know em. Can’t be bothered? Then you don’t have to call them on the fone or refer to them. They’re not your problem and you’re not theirs. The relationship is over.
The eternal frenzy for putting all things on gawds green earth in little tight fitting compartmental categories has always baffled me. Sorry to those who work diligently in the census or in focus groups or care too much about demographics. But I hope all folks out there will reclaim who they are and not what others label them as. Please feel free to plagiarize my answers to all these questions:
Race: Other / mixed (they’re still finding our ancestors’ bones all over Tropical Areas Worldwide)
Sex: often as I can, thanks for asking
Orientation: low and to the left, care to help redirect?
67
For all youse who are yapping about "homosexual is just a word. It isn't an insult so I can use it --- get over it whiner":
Shut up.
People get to call themselves what they want. It's called self-determination and is a pretty basic concept. If you want to insult people, just ask what they don't like to be called and then continue to use it.
Shut up.
People get to call themselves what they want. It's called self-determination and is a pretty basic concept. If you want to insult people, just ask what they don't like to be called and then continue to use it.
68
Homer: Hey! We owe this guy, and I don't want you calling him a sissy. This guy's a fruit, and a... no, wait, wait, wait: queer, queer, queer! That's what you like to be called, right?
John: Well, that or John.
From one of my favorite episodes of "The Simpsons".
John: Well, that or John.
From one of my favorite episodes of "The Simpsons".
69
Awesome, now the new campaign is gonna be to forbid the actual medical and societal term that's used by all even those who identify as such. And then they deny that almost all they do is basically pr campaign.
Um Lovechild, why don't people use the term negro anymore? Why is that term frowned upon?
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69
Who said they don't?
Frowned upon by whom?
The United States Census Bureau announced that Negro would be included on the 2010 United States Census, alongside "Black" and "African-American," because some older Americans still self-identify with the term.
The word Negro was used to refer to a person of Black ancestry prior to the shift in the lexicon of American and worldwide classification of race and ethnicity in the late 1960s. The appellation was accepted as a normal and was used by those of Black African descent as well as those of non-African black descent during the eras prior to the Civil Rights movement.
It is not and never has been a slur.
It seems only super sensitive superPC super clueless liberals who don't actually know any black people are shocked by the word....
Who said they don't?
Frowned upon by whom?
The United States Census Bureau announced that Negro would be included on the 2010 United States Census, alongside "Black" and "African-American," because some older Americans still self-identify with the term.
The word Negro was used to refer to a person of Black ancestry prior to the shift in the lexicon of American and worldwide classification of race and ethnicity in the late 1960s. The appellation was accepted as a normal and was used by those of Black African descent as well as those of non-African black descent during the eras prior to the Civil Rights movement.
It is not and never has been a slur.
It seems only super sensitive superPC super clueless liberals who don't actually know any black people are shocked by the word....
71
During the American Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s, some African American leaders in the United States objected to the word, preferring Black,[1] because they associated the word Negro with the long history of slavery, segregation, and discrimination that treated African Americans as second class citizens, or worse. During the 1960s Negro came to be considered an ethnic slur.[2]
The term is now considered archaic and is not commonly used. The term is still used in some contexts for historical reasons such as in the name of the United Negro College Fund.[3][4] or the Negro league in sports. "Negro" means "black" in Spanish, Portuguese, and ancient Italian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro
The term is now considered archaic and is not commonly used. The term is still used in some contexts for historical reasons such as in the name of the United Negro College Fund.[3][4] or the Negro league in sports. "Negro" means "black" in Spanish, Portuguese, and ancient Italian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro
72
71
Again.
WHO said they don't?
Frowned upon by WHOM?
Is the census also going give the choices of spic, chink, whop and faggot?
Perhaps 'slur' doesn't mean what you think it does.
You confirm the premise that the 'concern' is a simply another manufactured fetish of the PCpolice.
Again.
WHO said they don't?
Frowned upon by WHOM?
Is the census also going give the choices of spic, chink, whop and faggot?
Perhaps 'slur' doesn't mean what you think it does.
You confirm the premise that the 'concern' is a simply another manufactured fetish of the PCpolice.
73
"It's a little disturbing that that term is so ... it's still relevant in today's society where we consider ourselves to have progressed so far. We have a black president now. It just really shows that race relations are not where we would have hoped they'd be in 2010," Alabama A&M University History Professor Stephanie Allen said.
When filling out the form's question on race, if you want to identify as black, your option is to mark the box that says "Black, African Am., or Negro."
"It needs to be re-published and the word negro removed from it, because the word negro is too closely related to the "n-word" itself. And, since the 1960s, we have been and have called ourselves exactly what we are. We are African Americans," Huntsville NAACP Member R.L. Shanklin said.
"Being black, when I hear the term negro, my visual reference is 1960s, 1950s Selma. I see like, the height of Jim Crow with the term, that usage of Negro," Allen visualized.
Shanklin says the reason the word "negro" is still on the Census is because of ignorance.
"I think there's a lot of individuals that are still not sensitive to ... that don't understand that that word can be very sensitive to African Americans and that we have a lot of growing to do yet," he remarked.
http://www.whnt.com/news/whnt-word-negro…
When filling out the form's question on race, if you want to identify as black, your option is to mark the box that says "Black, African Am., or Negro."
"It needs to be re-published and the word negro removed from it, because the word negro is too closely related to the "n-word" itself. And, since the 1960s, we have been and have called ourselves exactly what we are. We are African Americans," Huntsville NAACP Member R.L. Shanklin said.
"Being black, when I hear the term negro, my visual reference is 1960s, 1950s Selma. I see like, the height of Jim Crow with the term, that usage of Negro," Allen visualized.
Shanklin says the reason the word "negro" is still on the Census is because of ignorance.
"I think there's a lot of individuals that are still not sensitive to ... that don't understand that that word can be very sensitive to African Americans and that we have a lot of growing to do yet," he remarked.
http://www.whnt.com/news/whnt-word-negro…
74
72: simply repeating what you've already written over and over again doesn't accomplish anything. Let's try it, shall we:
if you think "Negro" is acceptable, then you'll feel comfortable referring to the next black person you see as such. Care to place bets about how that will be received? Also, I see you've been reading the Wikipedia entry "Negro." Shame you didn't read carefully enough to discover that although the term will be an option on the 2010 census, the decision is controversial and many find it deeply offensive.
if you think "Negro" is acceptable, then you'll feel comfortable referring to the next black person you see as such. Care to place bets about how that will be received? Also, I see you've been reading the Wikipedia entry "Negro." Shame you didn't read carefully enough to discover that although the term will be an option on the 2010 census, the decision is controversial and many find it deeply offensive.
75
The Word Police at work-
"Williams Aide Resigns in Language Dispute
By Yolanda Woodlee
Washington Post Staff Writer
The director of D.C. Mayor Anthony A. Williams's constituent services office resigned after being accused of using a racial slur, the mayor's office said yesterday.
David Howard, head of the Office of Public Advocate, said he used the word "niggardly" in a Jan. 15 conversation about funding with two employees.
"I used the word 'niggardly' in reference to my administration of a fund," Howard said in a written statement yesterday. "Although the word, which is defined as miserly, does not have any racial connotations, I realize that staff members present were offended by the word.
"I immediately apologized," Howard said. " . . . I would never think of making a racist remark. I regret that the word I did use offended anyone."
When Howard, who is white, noticed the reaction to his use of the word, he apologized to his three-member staff, which is made up of two blacks and another white. It is unclear which two employees he was addressing when he used the word.
Soon after the remark was uttered, the rumor mill started churning that Howard had used the word "nigger."
Howard said he has received numerous telephone calls since Jan. 15 from people in the community who had heard "I had made a racist remark . . . [which is] in fact unquotable here."
The Barnhard Dictionary of Etymology traces the origins of "niggardly" to the 1300s and the words nig and nigon, meaning miser, in Middle English. It also notes possible earlier origins in languages including Old Icelandic, Old English and Middle High German. There is no mention of any racial connotation.
Howard said the rumor that he had used a racial slur "has severely compromised my effectiveness as the District's Public Advocate and in the best interest of my office, I resigned," effective Monday.
Howard is the second mayoral appointee in two weeks to quit, and his resignation comes at a time when Williams's administration is being bombarded with questions regarding race relations -- his "loyalty" to his race as well as the diversity of his staff. Williams (D) is black; Howard was one of four white men Williams appointed on the first official business day of his administration.
Williams said Howard could return to the administration in another position, but one that did not require as much constituent contact. The mayor also insisted the incident will not send a chill through his administration or lead to an overly sensitive workplace.
But, he said, it is reflective of a city steeped in a "a racial climate that needs a lot of work."
More...
"Williams Aide Resigns in Language Dispute
By Yolanda Woodlee
Washington Post Staff Writer
The director of D.C. Mayor Anthony A. Williams's constituent services office resigned after being accused of using a racial slur, the mayor's office said yesterday.
David Howard, head of the Office of Public Advocate, said he used the word "niggardly" in a Jan. 15 conversation about funding with two employees.
"I used the word 'niggardly' in reference to my administration of a fund," Howard said in a written statement yesterday. "Although the word, which is defined as miserly, does not have any racial connotations, I realize that staff members present were offended by the word.
"I immediately apologized," Howard said. " . . . I would never think of making a racist remark. I regret that the word I did use offended anyone."
When Howard, who is white, noticed the reaction to his use of the word, he apologized to his three-member staff, which is made up of two blacks and another white. It is unclear which two employees he was addressing when he used the word.
Soon after the remark was uttered, the rumor mill started churning that Howard had used the word "nigger."
Howard said he has received numerous telephone calls since Jan. 15 from people in the community who had heard "I had made a racist remark . . . [which is] in fact unquotable here."
The Barnhard Dictionary of Etymology traces the origins of "niggardly" to the 1300s and the words nig and nigon, meaning miser, in Middle English. It also notes possible earlier origins in languages including Old Icelandic, Old English and Middle High German. There is no mention of any racial connotation.
Howard said the rumor that he had used a racial slur "has severely compromised my effectiveness as the District's Public Advocate and in the best interest of my office, I resigned," effective Monday.
Howard is the second mayoral appointee in two weeks to quit, and his resignation comes at a time when Williams's administration is being bombarded with questions regarding race relations -- his "loyalty" to his race as well as the diversity of his staff. Williams (D) is black; Howard was one of four white men Williams appointed on the first official business day of his administration.
Williams said Howard could return to the administration in another position, but one that did not require as much constituent contact. The mayor also insisted the incident will not send a chill through his administration or lead to an overly sensitive workplace.
But, he said, it is reflective of a city steeped in a "a racial climate that needs a lot of work."
76
The "niggardly" incident happened in 1999, and isn't at all the same thing as what we're discussing here. By your implied rationale, it should still be socially acceptable to use the word "nigger" because it originated as a neutral word derived from the Spanish for "black." That's simply not how language works.
78
77
Failed?
You quote a few Liberals who make a living being offended.
You prove my point.
Is it your assertion that the first Black President is going to instruct the census to put a racial slur on the forms?
You should splurge on some better quality pot.
76
It is ignorant hypersensitive people finding (or claiming to find, for political advantage...) offense where reasonable people would not. Exactly what we are discussing here.
Failed?
You quote a few Liberals who make a living being offended.
You prove my point.
Is it your assertion that the first Black President is going to instruct the census to put a racial slur on the forms?
You should splurge on some better quality pot.
76
It is ignorant hypersensitive people finding (or claiming to find, for political advantage...) offense where reasonable people would not. Exactly what we are discussing here.
79
If you can't understand this simple concept then you're a moron. Or a troll, but either way a moron.
80
78, You claimed that the use of the term negro wasn't frowned upon. I showed you it was, so you switched to the word police tactic. You fail yet again.
81
I have to wonder (and am sure no-one surveyed for this):
How do the polls reflect opinion on heterosexuals serving in the military?
We may be talking the dislike of a 5+ syllable word that contains the segment sexual.
How do the polls reflect opinion on heterosexuals serving in the military?
We may be talking the dislike of a 5+ syllable word that contains the segment sexual.
82
@16
"The point is, this song ain't about you."
Well, yes it is if you think membership in one or another category or group gives some people unlimited, arbitrary veto power over my vocabulary.
Those who use 'homosexual' as a slur will do the exact same thing with whatever term replaces it. That's the whole point of slurs. That such a bland, neutral term as 'homosexual' can thus employed closes the case.
The less said about your cat/toaster response, the better.
"The point is, this song ain't about you."
Well, yes it is if you think membership in one or another category or group gives some people unlimited, arbitrary veto power over my vocabulary.
Those who use 'homosexual' as a slur will do the exact same thing with whatever term replaces it. That's the whole point of slurs. That such a bland, neutral term as 'homosexual' can thus employed closes the case.
The less said about your cat/toaster response, the better.
83
This is all well and good until it becomes silly and ridiculous--particularly in the name of sensitivity. Example: A "Barista"--snicker-- at Pam's House Blend got all uppity and upset when this homosexual male referred to himself as such in comments. Threatened with 'expulsion' for this heinous crime-against-nature, I was informed the usage of this word was a violation the blog's TOS, (only GLAAD-approved nomenclature, thank you very much) and so I demanded that Cloud-Cuckooland of a blog to pull my registration and all of my comments, in addition to getting a life. Apparently my desire to call myself what I wished, wanted and intended was hurting the feelings of other readers, rarified orchids that they are...
86
If it's going to become super non-PC to use the word homosexual then you need to use some other word instead of bisexual, or else you will just seem hypersensitive and uber-random.
87
I don't mind changing the terminology I use for gays and lesbians. I don't like being called a chick,dame,bitch orho just because i'm female. If the US war gods think we're a little short staffed in the military now, just think of the shape we'de be in if all gays and lesbians had to leave the military. I think it's time to concentrate on matters that really threaten our survival and get on with life.
88
Hi to anyone who believes gays or lisibans should serve in the military, come to ky ot tenn, or indiana, and ask the question if queers or lisibans should be in the military and the answer will be hell-no---we don't want a bunch of homo's protecting us from anyone --we have enough men and women who have a brain that can serve our country---we don't need any gay or lisiban in the military period!!!!! an american who tells it like it is brother---been there and don't like queers or lisibans doing anything for me or my country!!!!
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