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News & ArtsTuesday, February 9, 2010
Transportation Second Round of First Hill Street Streetcar Meetings Start Today
Posted by Unpaid Intern on Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:07 AM
- One of six First Hill streetcar alignments, click to enlarge
Posted by news intern Sarah Anne Lloyd
The First Hill Streetcar is coming, and the first of three community open houses this year is today at 4:00 p.m. Just in time, the City of Seattle has released the latest information on the First Hill Streetcar project, including maps of the six alignment alternatives currently under consideration, traffic and accessibility studies, and bicycle integration information (here's my summary of December's public meetings).
You have three opportunities to give your input on this BITCH. Meeting locations and times after the jump.
Tuesday, February 9
4:00 PM-7:00PM
Union Station
401 S Jackson Street
Thursday, February 11
11:30 AM-1:00PM
Seattle First Baptist Church
1111 Harvard Ave
Thursday, February 11
4:00 PM-7:00PM
Seattle First Baptist Church
1111 Harvard Ave
Oh, PS: The city's still looking for someone to develop artwork for the line.
1
is this street car faster than walking or not?
look at that convoluted route. zig, zag...
is this street car faster than a bus, or not?
btw measure from the midpoint of the line....because if you are at the end of the street car line and going to the other end of the street car line you'd jump on the light rail.....so next question is this:
is this street car faster than the light rail?
final question for $64,000. If it's not faster, what is its purpose because it's certainly not a transportation purpose?
"Streetcards are magic fairy dust that lead to development, you see we without this we won't have any development in this part of town" -- au contraire things are developing in that part of town quite nicely in general we have lots of development in downtown cap hill SLU all of which is a 15 minute walk from each other and is well served by tansit already, and esp. with our multibillion dollar light rail going to capitol hill and to many other stations a ten minute walk from the hospitals on first hill which are only a few blocks from third avenue to begin with.
"well it's cheap enough to be building something called transit, it makes us feel like we're moving to transit, it's not as expensive as building another whole grade separated light rail line that would bring real transit to other parts of the city, so spending $600 million on streetcars connecting neighborhoods already well served by busses, even though the streetcars won't be any faster, is one of those things that is a win for all politicians concerned because it LOOKS LIKE we're doing something pro transit and we can pretend we're building a New Amsterdam here in Seattle although without the zoning and huge investments in all kinds of real trains and subways they have over there, it will just look like Amsterdam. A little bit. On certain street car routes. But that's what's important getting those pictures of a cyclist next to a streetcar, we can add in a few baguettes to the back of the bike with photoshop, too, no problem" --
bingo.
More...
look at that convoluted route. zig, zag...
is this street car faster than a bus, or not?
btw measure from the midpoint of the line....because if you are at the end of the street car line and going to the other end of the street car line you'd jump on the light rail.....so next question is this:
is this street car faster than the light rail?
final question for $64,000. If it's not faster, what is its purpose because it's certainly not a transportation purpose?
"Streetcards are magic fairy dust that lead to development, you see we without this we won't have any development in this part of town" -- au contraire things are developing in that part of town quite nicely in general we have lots of development in downtown cap hill SLU all of which is a 15 minute walk from each other and is well served by tansit already, and esp. with our multibillion dollar light rail going to capitol hill and to many other stations a ten minute walk from the hospitals on first hill which are only a few blocks from third avenue to begin with.
"well it's cheap enough to be building something called transit, it makes us feel like we're moving to transit, it's not as expensive as building another whole grade separated light rail line that would bring real transit to other parts of the city, so spending $600 million on streetcars connecting neighborhoods already well served by busses, even though the streetcars won't be any faster, is one of those things that is a win for all politicians concerned because it LOOKS LIKE we're doing something pro transit and we can pretend we're building a New Amsterdam here in Seattle although without the zoning and huge investments in all kinds of real trains and subways they have over there, it will just look like Amsterdam. A little bit. On certain street car routes. But that's what's important getting those pictures of a cyclist next to a streetcar, we can add in a few baguettes to the back of the bike with photoshop, too, no problem" --
bingo.
3
Meanwhile, Portland just started laying tracks for their second streetcar route which will be as long as both our streetcars combined. They obtained funding 6 months after the Fist Hill Streetcar, but it will be completed a year earlier. Their two streetcar lines will be over twice as long as our two.
Plus, they have four light rail lines that cost less than our one light rail line.
Oh yeah, Portland has 8x our light rail ridership, San Francisco has about 15x, and Vancouver has over 20x.
But we can't build one mile of streetcar without people like #1 thinking it's the end of the world. You are why Seattle is one of the worst cities for transit on the continent.
Plus, they have four light rail lines that cost less than our one light rail line.
Oh yeah, Portland has 8x our light rail ridership, San Francisco has about 15x, and Vancouver has over 20x.
But we can't build one mile of streetcar without people like #1 thinking it's the end of the world. You are why Seattle is one of the worst cities for transit on the continent.
4
@3, really, compare a map of the Portland Streetcar with the map for the Boren/Seneca alignment. Does PDX's line double back on itself in a matter of blocks, like this version does at 14th? No. It traces a giant L across the center city, going straight, turning right, and then after getting through downtown making a sensible set of jogs to get across the river. It looks like it gets you somewhere quickly, and it does.
I think our design process focuses so much on rider share that it misses the commonsense notion that a line as a whole must be direct. Nobody walking, riding, or driving up from the ID to Seattle U would go way past Broadway to 14th before doubling back; neither should a streetcar. In this alignment, you might be better off hopping off at Broadway and riding a bike or bus the rest of the way.
I think our design process focuses so much on rider share that it misses the commonsense notion that a line as a whole must be direct. Nobody walking, riding, or driving up from the ID to Seattle U would go way past Broadway to 14th before doubling back; neither should a streetcar. In this alignment, you might be better off hopping off at Broadway and riding a bike or bus the rest of the way.
6
I think people are missing the point of a streetcar line. It's not designed to get you quickly from the International District to Broadway and Denny. If you want that, you take the light rail. The streetcar is designed for local service from those stations, and between neighborhoods. Most people aren't going to be riding the whole way. They'll ride from light rail on Broadway to Pike/Pine, or to Swedish. Or they'll ride Pioneer Square to Yesler Terrace.
And it's not all that indirect, given the topology of the area (something that's not an issue with Portland). Jackson is the best route across I-5 from the ID light rail station (Yesler gets you there, but misses most of the ID, meaning a lot of wasted track). You can't go straight through Yesler Terrace, because the roads don't connect. The jog down Boren is to better serve Virginia Mason, since the entire reason for funding the line is to serve First Hill. It's worth noting that the 2-way Broadway option skips this jog and is a straight line from Denny to Yesler. Except for the jog around Yesler Terrace and the turnaround loops, it's a perfect L.
The designers of the streetcar actually do know what they're doing.
And it's not all that indirect, given the topology of the area (something that's not an issue with Portland). Jackson is the best route across I-5 from the ID light rail station (Yesler gets you there, but misses most of the ID, meaning a lot of wasted track). You can't go straight through Yesler Terrace, because the roads don't connect. The jog down Boren is to better serve Virginia Mason, since the entire reason for funding the line is to serve First Hill. It's worth noting that the 2-way Broadway option skips this jog and is a straight line from Denny to Yesler. Except for the jog around Yesler Terrace and the turnaround loops, it's a perfect L.
The designers of the streetcar actually do know what they're doing.
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