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News & ArtsMonday, February 8, 2010
Politics Krugman: The Polish Joke...
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:27 AM
...is on us.
We’ve always known that America’s reign as the world’s greatest nation would eventually end. But most of us imagined that our downfall, when it came, would be something grand and tragic. What we’re getting instead is less a tragedy than a deadly farce. Instead of fraying under the strain of imperial overstretch, we’re paralyzed by procedure. Instead of re-enacting the decline and fall of Rome, we’re re-enacting the dissolution of 18th-century Poland.A brief history lesson: In the 17th and 18th centuries, the Polish legislature, the Sejm, operated on the unanimity principle: any member could nullify legislation by shouting “I do not allow!” This made the nation largely ungovernable, and neighboring regimes began hacking off pieces of its territory. By 1795 Poland had disappeared, not to re-emerge for more than a century.
Today, the U.S. Senate seems determined to make the Sejm look good by comparison.
Read the whole thing.
3
Klugman should get paid good money for historical comparisons. He's a mighty know-it-some.
here's a joke - Poland only in that the pre-punch and punch lie comes from one of their great novelists.
Which guidebook does Noah consult when sailing down a river?
here's a joke - Poland only in that the pre-punch and punch lie comes from one of their great novelists.
Which guidebook does Noah consult when sailing down a river?
5
I went to a Quaker school and know this Sejm style of governance well. Among the Friends it's known as Quaker consensus. The actual process works is slow, but ultimately workable for the Friends because they start from a place of mutual respect and shared worldview, and their goals are generally agreed upon. These preconditions are somewhat lacking in our political system. (sigh)
9
funny...
when the GOP had a majority in the Senate
(although, we'll grant, it wasn't a SuperMajority-)
you didn't see people making Polack jokes about American government...
when the GOP had a majority in the Senate
(although, we'll grant, it wasn't a SuperMajority-)
you didn't see people making Polack jokes about American government...
10
Don't think it's a joke, really, #9.
More like an anecdote. And once again, your post tells us more about you than the news. Polack? Grow up.
More like an anecdote. And once again, your post tells us more about you than the news. Polack? Grow up.
11
The best quote:
But by now, we know how the Obama administration deals with those who would destroy it: it goes straight for the capillaries.
12
North America in 2050-2075:
The former American states north and east of Pennsylvania and New Jersey (New York included) have become their own nation. New Hampshire, being New Hampshire, may tell everyone to screw off so that they can continue being New Hampshire. Maybe they'll name themselves literally "New England". Fiscally stable and progressive independent nation. Strong commerce. Strong economy.
The American south will be their own thing. A conservative, religious, red nation, and the beginnings of a Christian theocracy in North America comparable in many ways to Egypt and to a lesser degree Iran. Florida, insanely, will be the liberal corner of their nation. No idea what they'd call themselves. Couldn't care less.
The American midwest, from Utah, Arizona, Texas, the Dakotas, Wyoming, et all may or may not align in a southern national strip with the south, bordering along Mexico. If they do, I expect nothing less than economic war between Mexico and this new nation.
Illinois and the upper midwest--Michigan, folks out that way--may or may not form their own nation. Some of them would be an ideal fit for annexation with and merger into Canada as new provinces. Illinois in particular may be appealing.
The rest of the massive midwest? Either small independent nations or alignment with their neighbors depending on the prevailing local politics and trends. None will align south with Mexico.
California: it's own nation.
Oregon, Washington: either our own nation, or merger into Canada. I prefer Cascadia as a national identity, e.g. Cascadians.
Montana: it's own nation, and they'd probably do fine.
Tell me I'm wrong.
The former American states north and east of Pennsylvania and New Jersey (New York included) have become their own nation. New Hampshire, being New Hampshire, may tell everyone to screw off so that they can continue being New Hampshire. Maybe they'll name themselves literally "New England". Fiscally stable and progressive independent nation. Strong commerce. Strong economy.
The American south will be their own thing. A conservative, religious, red nation, and the beginnings of a Christian theocracy in North America comparable in many ways to Egypt and to a lesser degree Iran. Florida, insanely, will be the liberal corner of their nation. No idea what they'd call themselves. Couldn't care less.
The American midwest, from Utah, Arizona, Texas, the Dakotas, Wyoming, et all may or may not align in a southern national strip with the south, bordering along Mexico. If they do, I expect nothing less than economic war between Mexico and this new nation.
Illinois and the upper midwest--Michigan, folks out that way--may or may not form their own nation. Some of them would be an ideal fit for annexation with and merger into Canada as new provinces. Illinois in particular may be appealing.
The rest of the massive midwest? Either small independent nations or alignment with their neighbors depending on the prevailing local politics and trends. None will align south with Mexico.
California: it's own nation.
Oregon, Washington: either our own nation, or merger into Canada. I prefer Cascadia as a national identity, e.g. Cascadians.
Montana: it's own nation, and they'd probably do fine.
Tell me I'm wrong.
13
ahem.
been sayin'.
How in hell do we expect to get jobs programs and health care and trains like they got in Germany Sweden Holland etc. (all which unemployment down in the 4-7% range, a virtual socialistic health care system, hooray, and hi fucking speed trains every where) when our own democratic party president and party leaders willingly agree to this 60 vote rule that changes our system from democracy (majority rule, we in the urban archipelago call the shots by virture of being most people) to antidemocratic minority rule (giving Nebraskasota or fucking Arkansiana or Maine the key to power -- the 60th vote)?
been sayin'.
How in hell do we expect to get jobs programs and health care and trains like they got in Germany Sweden Holland etc. (all which unemployment down in the 4-7% range, a virtual socialistic health care system, hooray, and hi fucking speed trains every where) when our own democratic party president and party leaders willingly agree to this 60 vote rule that changes our system from democracy (majority rule, we in the urban archipelago call the shots by virture of being most people) to antidemocratic minority rule (giving Nebraskasota or fucking Arkansiana or Maine the key to power -- the 60th vote)?
14
I'm getting quite a kick out of this "America is ungovernable" meme. First it meant that the Republicans are at fault for the Democrats' inability to agree, among themselves, about a health care bill. Now it means that senators seeking booty for their states is somehow new and unconscionable. Maybe Krugman could cast his mind back to the recent buying off of Senators Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu; I don't think he ever denounced them for seeking (and getting) extra graft for their states. But they were, of course, from the party of virtue.
15
step one is to replace reid as majority leader with someone posessing a spine. unfortunately for the dem majority, the nevada voters may take care of that for us by giving us another ensign.
al franken doesn't have the seniority to win the position, but at least he'd force the GOP to pull the filibuster trigger as majority leader. i don't know if there's anyone else who would - kerry?
al franken doesn't have the seniority to win the position, but at least he'd force the GOP to pull the filibuster trigger as majority leader. i don't know if there's anyone else who would - kerry?
16
@5 I was raised Quaker, and thought about that when I read the article. It really is much more effective when, as you say, those involved "start from a place of mutual respect and shared worldview." (I really have nothing to add to your comment, I just wanted to agree with you.)
17
The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was once the largest country in Europe. At the height of its power, it was one of the most diverse and tolerant kingdoms in existence. Lithuania is also the geographical center of Europe.
18
kerry?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HOHOHOHOHOH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
pant
pant
pant
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
oh my sides....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HEHEHEHEHEHEE
HOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOH
HAHAHAHAHAHA
.
really?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HOHOHOHOHOH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
pant
pant
pant
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
oh my sides....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HEHEHEHEHEHEE
HOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOH
HAHAHAHAHAHA
.
really?
19
I told you my sweet children you never should have left your loving queen. You may have greater princes rule over you but none will love you more. Join my children in Canada.
20
@18: i said i didn't know of a senator who would have a spine besides franken. perhaps you have a suggestion that would be better, instead of taking a minute to type laughing noises?
24
20
sorry.
actually it took several minutes as i accidentally deleted the first page full before I posted them.
OK, a name....
how about; hmmm; maybe
Mitch McConnell?
sorry.
actually it took several minutes as i accidentally deleted the first page full before I posted them.
OK, a name....
how about; hmmm; maybe
Mitch McConnell?
25
@12: you're wrong.
I mean really, any prediction for 40 years from now with that kind of specificity has to be wrong.
I mean really, any prediction for 40 years from now with that kind of specificity has to be wrong.
26
@25 I'm sure I got some stuff wrong--maybe Montana and Idaho will join with us in Cascadia? Maybe NY will go on it's own?
But in general, I think that's the 'approximate' way it will break down. The cracks are priming up already quite nicely and along those ballpark lines.
But in general, I think that's the 'approximate' way it will break down. The cracks are priming up already quite nicely and along those ballpark lines.
27
All this is sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Get rid of the current majority leader in the Senate and put one in who knows the Constitution only requires a majority vote of 50 percent with the VP as a tiebreaker, and that filibusters require really old white men to stand up for days talking with no breaks and you'll see action.
But not with Chief Wuss Reid in place.
Get rid of the current majority leader in the Senate and put one in who knows the Constitution only requires a majority vote of 50 percent with the VP as a tiebreaker, and that filibusters require really old white men to stand up for days talking with no breaks and you'll see action.
But not with Chief Wuss Reid in place.
28
@26 - have you ever been to Idaho?
Other than Moscow, Idaho, you really don't want them to be part of Cascadia ...
I mean, seriously, I used to run marathons in Idaho, and ... they are NOT like us.
Other than Moscow, Idaho, you really don't want them to be part of Cascadia ...
I mean, seriously, I used to run marathons in Idaho, and ... they are NOT like us.
30
I kind of like the idea of red states and blue states in various areas having their own little countries; as an Illinoisian, the prospect of not having to deal with all the wacko shit that percolates out of the Deep South is quite nice. The trouble is, it's not all one-or-the other. In the summer of 2007, I was in Kemmerer, WY for 2 weeks. (8th largest city in the state, population ~2651.) Wyoming is supposed to be reddest of the red, but all I saw (in the CITY, at least) were "Obama '08" and "Clinton '08" signs. Very little sign of GOP advertising.
31
That's a really idiotic reasoning for the dissolution of the Polish state towards the end of the 18th Century. The veto that all members of the Szlachta could theoretically employ (liberum veto) was only allowed under the constraints of a traditional Sejm, and was outright prohibited under a Confederated Sejm, which were very common after 1764, the period in which the veto is supposedly disrupting the governance of Poland. The veto was a source of some friction half a century before, but cannot be totally blamed for the dissolution.
The rise of Russia into a major power (soon a world power); a series of disastrous, costly wars; a series of selfish self-interested, foreign-born kings: these all had more to do with the breakup of Poland than its lack of legislative unity.
The rise of Russia into a major power (soon a world power); a series of disastrous, costly wars; a series of selfish self-interested, foreign-born kings: these all had more to do with the breakup of Poland than its lack of legislative unity.
32
The only guy left who knows how to run the Senate is Byrd. He should push Reid out. He is old but still knows how to pull the levers.
33
I don't know why Paul Krugman would reference Nazi Subhuman intelligence Jokes about Polish people. For the record the origin of so called Polish Jokes (Subhuman intelligence jokes about Polish people) came from Nazi propaganda since the Nazi Germans felt the Polish people were subhuman since they are Slavic.
Ironically, Leftist Hollywood and NBC-TV media bigots imported these Subhuman intelligence jokes about Polish people into the US in the 1960's and 70's without telling the American public that they came from the Nazis. This leftist element of the media, which includeds anti-Polish media Bigots like Paul Krugman, have a sick demented hatred for Polish people.
Paul Krugman's Polish Joke SLUR proves Krugman is an ANTI-POLISH BIGOT
Ironically, Leftist Hollywood and NBC-TV media bigots imported these Subhuman intelligence jokes about Polish people into the US in the 1960's and 70's without telling the American public that they came from the Nazis. This leftist element of the media, which includeds anti-Polish media Bigots like Paul Krugman, have a sick demented hatred for Polish people.
Paul Krugman's Polish Joke SLUR proves Krugman is an ANTI-POLISH BIGOT
34
Paul Krugman's dirty reference to a Polish Joke (Nazi subhuman intelligence joke about Polish people) just shows that Paul Krugman is a demented ANTI-POLISH BIGOT
Will Krugman next compare the Senate to a "Jewish joke" or "African joke" with Nazi references in mind? So called Polish jokes were popular with Auschwitz Nazi German guards as they were killing Polish people.
Will Krugman next compare the Senate to a "Jewish joke" or "African joke" with Nazi references in mind? So called Polish jokes were popular with Auschwitz Nazi German guards as they were killing Polish people.
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