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News & ArtsThursday, February 4, 2010
Sports Now I Know Who I'm Rooting For
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:45 AM
On Sunday, Scott Fujita will reach the pinnacle of his football career, playing linebacker for the New Orleans Saints in the Super Bowl. Fujita describes it as “this small moment in time where you have a platform to do some good things.’’ Last fall, that included speaking out in support of gay rights, a rare step in a professional sporting culture that often turns social stances into landmines. Fujita, who is married, the father of twin daughters, and straight, pushes against the rising trend in sports to remain mum on cultural and political touchstones. His boldness, shaped by his unusual upbringing, makes him an uncommon and effective advocate for what he believes in....
Fujita was adopted by a third-generation Japanese-American man named Rodney and a Caucasian woman named Helen. He feels he owes his life to them. In some states, there have been laws proposed that would allow only married couples to adopt. This deeply bothered Fujita; he interpreted the proposals as an attempt to block foster children from being adopted into loving homes.
Fujita is exactly right: in many of the same states where gay marriage is illegal only legally married couples can adopt children. These policies aren't discriminatory, bigots will insist with straight faces, because unmarried straight couples aren't allowed to adopt either—but straight couples have the option of marrying and gay couples don't. Fujita, an adoptee, understands what the bigots don't: it's not gay couples who are being victimized by laws that prevent same-sex couples from adopting. A same-sex couple that wants to adopt can move to another state, or adopt in another state; a child languishing in foster care in Florida or Arkansas—states where fit, capable, loving potential parents are turned away if they're gay—can't pick up and move to another state where he or she may have an easier time being adopted into a loving home.
The choice for kids waiting to be adopted is not, as the religious right implies (with an emphasis on "lies") one between straight parents and gay parents. It's not a choice between the "mother and father" that every child "deserves" and a couple of dykes or a couple of fags. The choice is between parents and no parents, between the security of a permanent placement and a lifetime in foster care. There are more kids out there waiting to be adopted than there are people—couples, singles, gay, straight—who are willing and able to adopt them. Fujita gets it.
Go Saints!
3
The "Every Child deserves..." series clearly demonstrates the chaos and mayhem that unmarried cohabitation inflicts on children.
Laws requiring adoptive parents to be married are a bare minimum standard and requiring less would be criminally negligent.
And those laws impact many many more heterosexual couples that homosexual ones.
There is a heartbreaking overabundance of children without families and a shortage of stable married couples willing/able to adopt.
This is a direct result of ever loosening and liberal standards of sexual behavior- the "skipping toward Gommorah" philosophy creates a bumper crop of unprovided for children and dries up the supply of stable homes.
Redefining down the definition of marriage or lessening the expectations of adoptive parents are huge steps in the wrong direction.
Laws requiring adoptive parents to be married are a bare minimum standard and requiring less would be criminally negligent.
And those laws impact many many more heterosexual couples that homosexual ones.
There is a heartbreaking overabundance of children without families and a shortage of stable married couples willing/able to adopt.
This is a direct result of ever loosening and liberal standards of sexual behavior- the "skipping toward Gommorah" philosophy creates a bumper crop of unprovided for children and dries up the supply of stable homes.
Redefining down the definition of marriage or lessening the expectations of adoptive parents are huge steps in the wrong direction.
4
I'm a former resident of N.O (and vever of Indianapolis), so I knew who I was rooting for anyway. But this is good - a lot of pro athletes probably are decent guys, but just don't want to even potentially rock the boat. Yay for Fujita!
But Dan. who in their right mind is up blogging before dawn? Hope you're just a morning person and not a worried insomniac. If I manage to crawl into the shower at 7, I feel virtuous.
But Dan. who in their right mind is up blogging before dawn? Hope you're just a morning person and not a worried insomniac. If I manage to crawl into the shower at 7, I feel virtuous.
5
Dan's proposal certainly will make it convenient for pedophiles to acquire victims...
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives…
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives…
7
As a child of adoption myself, I am so thankful that I was able to grow up with a home and a family. Children don't moan or feel less worthwhile as adoptive kids unless someone makes them feel they are. EVERY adoption results in a "non-traditional" family, since EVERY adoption places a child with parents who are not biologically related and there was a time long ago when most children of adoption were viewed and treated as illegitimate bastards. We are also seeing more and more interracial adoptions and it's important to keep in mind that even back in the early 80s when my parents adopted me ALOT of people saw this as a BAD thing (since clearly every child deserves a mother and a father that are the same racial background as them) and that there has been a ton of back and forth regarding this aspect of adoption too.
The point is, children don't care what some assholes think. Children instinctively know what a family is: the people who love and care for them, who provide them with support and a chance to grow. To deny children the chance to be raised by loving couples who can't or don't get married or by single people with the means to provide caring homes is not just incredibly anti-family, it is inhumane and disgusting in the extreme. The fact of the matter is (and has always been) that people who support laws that limit the possible scope of adoptive parents based on some convuluted understanding of an archaic book (a book that insists parents beat their children regularly and kill them if "God" tells them to) are acting on their own prejudices and don't give a FUCK about kids.
The point is, children don't care what some assholes think. Children instinctively know what a family is: the people who love and care for them, who provide them with support and a chance to grow. To deny children the chance to be raised by loving couples who can't or don't get married or by single people with the means to provide caring homes is not just incredibly anti-family, it is inhumane and disgusting in the extreme. The fact of the matter is (and has always been) that people who support laws that limit the possible scope of adoptive parents based on some convuluted understanding of an archaic book (a book that insists parents beat their children regularly and kill them if "God" tells them to) are acting on their own prejudices and don't give a FUCK about kids.
8
Also, the idea that homosexual or unmarried couples or individuals would somehow prove more of a threat to children is ridiculous and shows either a complete lack of knowledge about the adoption process and child abuse statistics or a purposeful ignorance of facts. Adoption is not an easy matter. Even couples who would meet the standards of the most bigoted person (ie: white, wealthy, christian, hetero) have to jump through a multitude of hoops before they can adopt. Before my white, wealthy, christian, hetero parents were even allowed to have their name put down on a list they were required to undergo counseling and psych evals, once on the list they were "encouraged" to attend regular parenting classes (and were required to attend a minimum of three). After finally making the list they waited nearly three years before they were given the opportunity to adopt me and my brother. They were also required to have TWO rooms set up (since I am female and he is male they needed to provide each of us with our own room) and ready to serve as our bedrooms before they could even think about taking us home. After the initial adoption they had to wait six months before things became official (until that time our biological parents had the opportunity to change their minds). We also received both random and scheduled visits from social workers for the next two years after the adoption became official. Friends of my parents who adopted their three children out of the foster care system had even more hoops and red tape before they officially qualified as "parents".
In contrast, when I had my daughter I spent two days in the hospital, watched a poorly filmed video from what looked like the early 90s on shaken baby syndrome and was released with my child. I gave birth in a city hospital in the South Bronx, half of the women in the video room slept through the video (since no one bothered to stay and make sure we actually watched it) and at least one of those babies was actually dead before the year was out. I tested positive for opiates shortly after admittance into the hospital for pregnancy complications(side note: a nurse had given me a doctor ordered shot of morphine, forgot to note it on my chart and then made me take a blood test, I was not actually using drugs) and I never faced a single obstacle regarding that (aside from the initial social worker who came to my room to tell me I had tested positive).
All this is to say that while there are of course adoptive parents who will wind up abusing their children, adoption is not an easy process, adoption bureaus are not wallmarts and there are a heck of a lot of easier ways to find a kid to abuse if that is all you're looking to do. So please, cut the shit with this "the children are my only concern" bullshit, because people who try and keep kids from being raised in families based on their own particular preferences deserve a slow and painful death.
More...
In contrast, when I had my daughter I spent two days in the hospital, watched a poorly filmed video from what looked like the early 90s on shaken baby syndrome and was released with my child. I gave birth in a city hospital in the South Bronx, half of the women in the video room slept through the video (since no one bothered to stay and make sure we actually watched it) and at least one of those babies was actually dead before the year was out. I tested positive for opiates shortly after admittance into the hospital for pregnancy complications(side note: a nurse had given me a doctor ordered shot of morphine, forgot to note it on my chart and then made me take a blood test, I was not actually using drugs) and I never faced a single obstacle regarding that (aside from the initial social worker who came to my room to tell me I had tested positive).
All this is to say that while there are of course adoptive parents who will wind up abusing their children, adoption is not an easy process, adoption bureaus are not wallmarts and there are a heck of a lot of easier ways to find a kid to abuse if that is all you're looking to do. So please, cut the shit with this "the children are my only concern" bullshit, because people who try and keep kids from being raised in families based on their own particular preferences deserve a slow and painful death.
9
Normally I could care less about sports, but reading this I'm strongly inclined to root for the Saints. But really as far as what happens on the field I could go either way. Off the field's more important, and I applaud Fujita for having the courage to speak out like this. I hope he sets an example to other players. I like to think there are plenty out there who agree with him and who just haven't spoken up about it.
Yeah, there'll be those who disagree, maybe even within the Saints, but I'll keep a positive focus.
Yeah, there'll be those who disagree, maybe even within the Saints, but I'll keep a positive focus.
10
I won't so much be rooting for the Saints as rooting against Indianapolis. But this will make me feel better while I'm doing that.
11
Given the gruelling process that any adoptive parent of any orientation, gender or marital status has to go through I would be shocked if the pool of adoptive parents, gay or straight, weren't on average better prepared (psychologically, economically, educationally) for parenthood than the pool of biological parents.
No one has ever demonstrated that gay parents are less capable than straight parents, so holding their sexuality against them is ridiculous. After that, they still have to jump through the various hoops of any adoptive parent, which means that any gay person recieving a child already has been evaluated more throughly than someone having a child biologically, which last I checked required functional genitals and that's about it.
This faux concern for "the children" is an outrage. Its based on the false premise that orphans are being yanked out of the arms of young, healthy, rich heterosexual married couples and being given to two drag-queens who hooked up on Craigslist yesterday. The choice is between a stable gay couple that has passed adoption background-check muster and an orphanage or the foster circuit.
No one has ever demonstrated that gay parents are less capable than straight parents, so holding their sexuality against them is ridiculous. After that, they still have to jump through the various hoops of any adoptive parent, which means that any gay person recieving a child already has been evaluated more throughly than someone having a child biologically, which last I checked required functional genitals and that's about it.
This faux concern for "the children" is an outrage. Its based on the false premise that orphans are being yanked out of the arms of young, healthy, rich heterosexual married couples and being given to two drag-queens who hooked up on Craigslist yesterday. The choice is between a stable gay couple that has passed adoption background-check muster and an orphanage or the foster circuit.
12
Dan frames every social issue in terms of the Religious Right Straw Boogey Man that lives in his mind.
However religious prejudice is a poor foundation to base social policy upon.
It blinds him to the choices that are best for society.
He needs to learn to trust science even when it contradicts what his anti-religion/Christian bigotry is pushing him to believe.
Yesterday's abstinense sex ed. study was a good example.
It presented some very hopeful and helpful news that is/will be very important to teens and their families.
A 'sex advice' columnists might have been expected to appreciate and recognize that- all Dan could find was an opportunity to vent his copious bile on the religious Right.
Dan is unable to see any aspect of any issue other than how it meshes with his homosexual agenda.
It is a very narrow restricting set of blinders.
However religious prejudice is a poor foundation to base social policy upon.
It blinds him to the choices that are best for society.
He needs to learn to trust science even when it contradicts what his anti-religion/Christian bigotry is pushing him to believe.
Yesterday's abstinense sex ed. study was a good example.
It presented some very hopeful and helpful news that is/will be very important to teens and their families.
A 'sex advice' columnists might have been expected to appreciate and recognize that- all Dan could find was an opportunity to vent his copious bile on the religious Right.
Dan is unable to see any aspect of any issue other than how it meshes with his homosexual agenda.
It is a very narrow restricting set of blinders.
13
@12 You need to learn to UNDERSTAND science.
Hint, read the published article, not the headlines.
Hint, read the published article, not the headlines.
15
13
You are, of course, directing you comment to Mr Savage?
Who daily posts links to articles he hasn't read and doesn't understand and the content of which he has misrepresented in his post....
You are, of course, directing you comment to Mr Savage?
Who daily posts links to articles he hasn't read and doesn't understand and the content of which he has misrepresented in his post....
16
13, ignore him. He's an idiot, and has some deep-seated thing about homosexuality. He shows up on EVERY homo thread. He seems to have a pile of old medical journals he dips into every now and then---but they're really, really old. For instance, he went on and on once about Hep B and homosexuality---a problem that was solved in the early 80s when we got a great vaccine for Hep B, and now EVERYONE gets vaccinated in childhood for it. Another time he quoted a researcher who's been retired for twenty years and dead for twelve.
17
@14
So he can thank his mom for allowing him to be adopted, instead of paying an abortionist to kill him?
So he can thank his mom for allowing him to be adopted, instead of paying an abortionist to kill him?
22
Fujita originally voiced support for gay marriage about the same time as Brendan Ayanbadejo a former pro-bowler and a great Baltimore Raven player said the same thing at an Equality Maryland dinner back in the early fall. I was in a live-chat with him a few weeks ago when the Ravens were still in the playoffs and he reiterated his support and said it had caused no problems at all in the locker room. It's great that there are two pretty well-known defensive players speaking out for really no reason at all!
23
@13 You're right, of course. I'm not incensed about it. I would only point out, to no one in particular, that there is a big difference between skepticism about a single scientific article and drawing profound, far-reaching conclusions from it. I respect Dan for mostly doing the former.
@16
13 was talking to me. Please have the courtesy to let us talk about you behind your back without interruption.
@16
13 was talking to me. Please have the courtesy to let us talk about you behind your back without interruption.
24
16
Funny thing about the vaccine-
it didn't address the underlying behavior that was causing the spread of HepB, in fact it masked it and made people feel complacent.
Could that be why homosexuals account for 59% of all new AIDS cases in America today?
Funny thing about the vaccine-
it didn't address the underlying behavior that was causing the spread of HepB, in fact it masked it and made people feel complacent.
Could that be why homosexuals account for 59% of all new AIDS cases in America today?
26
Agreed, Danger. ( Love your handle by the way---as in "Stranger Danger." ) I figure if he really wanted to have a conversation with us he'd register. He just mines what he reads to find what he wants. He seems to think that articles in scientific journals are good for all time and that they are also moral arguments or at least back up his moral arguments.
I wish he'd get a job. I suspect he still lives with Mom.
I wish he'd get a job. I suspect he still lives with Mom.
27
The new AIDS case rate is quite a large Elephant, and it is a shame sloggers with professional backgrounds that might be enlightening and helpful can't get past their PC bigotries to address the issue....
28
But Dan? How can you overlook the fact that Indy actually has homosexual players on the team? Go Peyton!
29
WooHoo! I just got my Saints championship hat in the mail - gonna wear it on Sunday even though it will flatten my hair!!
No offense to Peyton and the boys, but I think this is gonna be the Saints' year - WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS??
:-D
No offense to Peyton and the boys, but I think this is gonna be the Saints' year - WHO DAT SAY DEY GONNA BEAT DEM SAINTS??
:-D
31
@27: Let's think this out.
If Dan said on Slog, "51% of all new cases of HIV are among black men and women, an increase from below 45% less than 5 years ago"...
If Dan said on Slog, "51% of all new cases of HIV are among black men and women, an increase from below 45% less than 5 years ago"...
32
31
That is a good point.
Why does Dan,
America's Gay Princess Spokesmodel,
never call the Gay community to task for the behavior that leads to an appalling AIDS rate?
It seems a natural and morally inescapable role for a homosexual sex expert advice columnist.
Instead Dan gets on Joy Behar to mock John Edwards.
Is that platform really used to best advantage kicking an already washed up hetero politician?
How does that help the Gays?
A little like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton running around America blaming everyone and everything for the challenges of Black Americans without ever addressing the 77% out of wedlock birthrate.
That is a good point.
Why does Dan,
America's Gay Princess Spokesmodel,
never call the Gay community to task for the behavior that leads to an appalling AIDS rate?
It seems a natural and morally inescapable role for a homosexual sex expert advice columnist.
Instead Dan gets on Joy Behar to mock John Edwards.
Is that platform really used to best advantage kicking an already washed up hetero politician?
How does that help the Gays?
A little like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton running around America blaming everyone and everything for the challenges of Black Americans without ever addressing the 77% out of wedlock birthrate.
34
@26
Hey, Deviant Attitude, did you see the post above this one?
Dan posted a link to a twenty-year-old story in the 'British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology'.
Twent years?!
WTF??
Could you please set him straight?
Hey, Deviant Attitude, did you see the post above this one?
Dan posted a link to a twenty-year-old story in the 'British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology'.
Twent years?!
WTF??
Could you please set him straight?
37
My brother was adopted out of Florida foster care by my parents when he was 13. I was 25 at the time and was horrified by what I witnessed about the Florida foster care system.
My brother first came to live with my parents as a foster child placement. A few days after arriving, he awoke with a tooth ache. So, they took him to the dentist. He had 3 teeth rotted to the gum line. Why would a 12 year old have teeth rotted to the gum line? Because his previous foster family had not bought him a toothbrush in two years. Foster children are required to have regular dental check-ups. He hadn't seen a dentist at all in that two years. His social worker was faking the reports stating that he'd been to a dentist.
When his mother finally signed away her parental rights, the social worker made her tell him why. She was shacking up with a guy who had a violent felony record. So, the judge gave her the choice of dumping the boyfriend or giving up her parental rights. She opted to keep the boyfriend and abandon her FOUR children. Now, how well do you think a 12 year old boy processed the information that his mother picked her convicted felon boyfriend over her children? When my parents complained to the social worker's superior about this incident, the social worker threatened to remove him from their foster care in retaliation.
Only a total FUCKTARD would believe, "Oh, yeah, leaving kids to languish in Florida foster care is definitely better than adopting them out to a loving, gay couple."
My brother first came to live with my parents as a foster child placement. A few days after arriving, he awoke with a tooth ache. So, they took him to the dentist. He had 3 teeth rotted to the gum line. Why would a 12 year old have teeth rotted to the gum line? Because his previous foster family had not bought him a toothbrush in two years. Foster children are required to have regular dental check-ups. He hadn't seen a dentist at all in that two years. His social worker was faking the reports stating that he'd been to a dentist.
When his mother finally signed away her parental rights, the social worker made her tell him why. She was shacking up with a guy who had a violent felony record. So, the judge gave her the choice of dumping the boyfriend or giving up her parental rights. She opted to keep the boyfriend and abandon her FOUR children. Now, how well do you think a 12 year old boy processed the information that his mother picked her convicted felon boyfriend over her children? When my parents complained to the social worker's superior about this incident, the social worker threatened to remove him from their foster care in retaliation.
Only a total FUCKTARD would believe, "Oh, yeah, leaving kids to languish in Florida foster care is definitely better than adopting them out to a loving, gay couple."
38
Oh and when my brother arrived as a 12 year old foster child, all of his belongings fit into a garbage bag. Yep, he arrived carrying his belongings in a FUCKING lawn garbage bag. The social worker who was supposed to make sure that he had a suitcase for his belongings, couldn't be bothered with taking the time to get one. (Even though many local church groups had donated suitcases and backpacks for this very specific reason.) Yep, the Florida foster care system - ain't it grand.
39
See, Danger @23, we really seem to have pissed him off, since there's been an explosion in unregistered comments on this thread since you and I started chatting.
He takes the bait every time. The poor boy thinks we're actually reading his un-witty offerings, I think. At least he can't go all Godwin on us when we're talking about gays.
He takes the bait every time. The poor boy thinks we're actually reading his un-witty offerings, I think. At least he can't go all Godwin on us when we're talking about gays.
41
igub, good on you and your family for welcoming a new member at a tough age. Parenting a teen is harder than anything else I've ever done. Why anyone would turn away willing and stable families (of whatever composition) who want to adopt is beyond me.
43
Oh and why was my brother in foster care? Because his heterosexual, biological father:
1. Broke his arm and his nose while beating him.
2. Would awaken the children in the middle of the night to terrorize them by throwing cold water on them and then taking them to the bathroom and holding their face under the water faucet. Apparently, his own little water boarding game years before water boarding became such a popular catch-phrase.
3. On a drugged out binge, he held a knife to my brother's throat and threatened to kill him when the police arrived with an arrest warrant.
4. He would prostitute out his wife (my brother's biological mother) and force the children to watch while she turned tricks.
Both the parents were hard-core drug addicts. So, often they were too drugged out to be bothered with buying food or cooking for them.
But, hey, his biological father was heterosexual and that's all that matters, right?
So, when I hear people talking about preventing children from being adopted by a loving, gay couple and leaving them to languish in foster care or that heterosexuality makes you a better parent, I know first-hand what a load of shit that it is.
1. Broke his arm and his nose while beating him.
2. Would awaken the children in the middle of the night to terrorize them by throwing cold water on them and then taking them to the bathroom and holding their face under the water faucet. Apparently, his own little water boarding game years before water boarding became such a popular catch-phrase.
3. On a drugged out binge, he held a knife to my brother's throat and threatened to kill him when the police arrived with an arrest warrant.
4. He would prostitute out his wife (my brother's biological mother) and force the children to watch while she turned tricks.
Both the parents were hard-core drug addicts. So, often they were too drugged out to be bothered with buying food or cooking for them.
But, hey, his biological father was heterosexual and that's all that matters, right?
So, when I hear people talking about preventing children from being adopted by a loving, gay couple and leaving them to languish in foster care or that heterosexuality makes you a better parent, I know first-hand what a load of shit that it is.
45
great post, dan. i won't watch the game, but i'll have a ball when someone asks who i am rooting for. (i confess i don't even know who the other team might be)
46
Why is it always caucasians the ones that make wrong comparisons that place race on the same level as decisions? One would believe that being exposed to people of different races as mr Fujita has would make that clear to them, but apparently it doesn't.
Kids that cannot make a choice for themselves should matter more than the wishes of adults who can. Differences in decisions made by adult can be respect without having to wrongly elevate them to the same level as intrinsic traits especially since there are no scientific proof to back up such elevations.
Behavioral choices are not the same as race, ethnicity has no relation to volition. And mr Fujita should be wanting the best for other kids who are currently in the same situation he was once and not pretend (just to please adults with personal interests in mind) that the less ideal should be enough for them, because that was not the case when it came to him. And to say that an adoption made by homosexuals would be the same as an adoption made by an opposite sex couple reflective of a mother and a father just because his father was non-caucasian is not only disingenuous but also highly insulting to the man who raised him.
Kids that cannot make a choice for themselves should matter more than the wishes of adults who can. Differences in decisions made by adult can be respect without having to wrongly elevate them to the same level as intrinsic traits especially since there are no scientific proof to back up such elevations.
Behavioral choices are not the same as race, ethnicity has no relation to volition. And mr Fujita should be wanting the best for other kids who are currently in the same situation he was once and not pretend (just to please adults with personal interests in mind) that the less ideal should be enough for them, because that was not the case when it came to him. And to say that an adoption made by homosexuals would be the same as an adoption made by an opposite sex couple reflective of a mother and a father just because his father was non-caucasian is not only disingenuous but also highly insulting to the man who raised him.
47
Stranger poll regarding #46:
She is
1. off her meds
2. drinking early today
3. a group project, and the person being LC today is an ESL student
vote
She is
1. off her meds
2. drinking early today
3. a group project, and the person being LC today is an ESL student
vote
49
#46 Being gay isn't a choice, dear. When one of your kids turns out to be gay, you'll discover that. Hopefully the shock of your idiocy will kill you. I'll bake a cake to celebrate :3
52
#3, I'll bring the Champagne to go with the cake and hopefully watch them plant her face down, ass up. If you're gonna be an ass it's best to look that way too.
53
I think the christianist rationale goes something like this: ruining the bodies and souls of thousands of foster kids by letting them languish in neglectful and abusive homes isn't as bad as ruining the moral instruction of all children everywhere by giving them the impression that gay people are as human as the rest of us.
54
@49 It would be nice if non-biased scientific proof could be provided don't you think ? But to date it hasn't. It is not the same that's inherently known and observed as race so it cannot be placed equally with ethnicity which is what Fujita attempted to do here.
Regardless, should the ideal: a mother and father be disregarded when it comes to adoptions in favor of same sex couples just to please gays and not offend them or should the best interest of the child be place before anything? I believe that there are many heterosexual couples who are seeking to adopt children and raise them in a loving stable environment and those couples should not be placed on second place in favor of other couples just to please gay advocacy groups.
And thanks but we are raising our kids with a clear understanding of what proper and affirming human sexuality entails. I wish nothing but happiness and health of body, mind and soul to you.
Regardless, should the ideal: a mother and father be disregarded when it comes to adoptions in favor of same sex couples just to please gays and not offend them or should the best interest of the child be place before anything? I believe that there are many heterosexual couples who are seeking to adopt children and raise them in a loving stable environment and those couples should not be placed on second place in favor of other couples just to please gay advocacy groups.
And thanks but we are raising our kids with a clear understanding of what proper and affirming human sexuality entails. I wish nothing but happiness and health of body, mind and soul to you.
55
@49 It would be nice if non-biased scientific proof could be provided don't you think ? But to date it hasn't. It is not the same that's inherently known and observed as race so it cannot be placed equally with ethnicity which is what Fujita attempted to do here.
Regardless, should the ideal: a mother and father be disregarded when it comes to adoptions in favor of same sex couples just to please gays and not offend them or should the best interest of the child be place before anything? I believe that there are many heterosexual couples who are seeking to adopt children and raise them in a loving stable environment and those couples should not be placed on second place in favor of other couples just to please gay advocacy groups.
And thanks but we are raising our kids with a clear understanding of what proper and life-affirming human sexuality entails. I wish nothing but happiness and health of body, mind and soul to you.
Regardless, should the ideal: a mother and father be disregarded when it comes to adoptions in favor of same sex couples just to please gays and not offend them or should the best interest of the child be place before anything? I believe that there are many heterosexual couples who are seeking to adopt children and raise them in a loving stable environment and those couples should not be placed on second place in favor of other couples just to please gay advocacy groups.
And thanks but we are raising our kids with a clear understanding of what proper and life-affirming human sexuality entails. I wish nothing but happiness and health of body, mind and soul to you.
57
"And thanks but we are raising our kids with a clear understanding of what proper and life-affirming human sexuality entails"
I sincerely and truly hope that none of your children are gay. Your personal belief in homosexuality being a "choice" has no bearing on the fact that the consensus of scientific evidence points to it NOT being a choice (never mind that even if it were a choice there's nothing wrong with it). Hence, no matter how much you teach your children to abhor homosexuality, if they were born gay they will be gay. A cruel fate to be born gay into a family that teaches you that something you never chose is in fact a choice and it makes you morally inferior and mommy and daddy won't love you as much if they find out. It's a torture too many gay kids have to experience and no matter what I think about your opinions LC, I truly and honestly hope none of your children have to suffer because of your ignorance.
I sincerely and truly hope that none of your children are gay. Your personal belief in homosexuality being a "choice" has no bearing on the fact that the consensus of scientific evidence points to it NOT being a choice (never mind that even if it were a choice there's nothing wrong with it). Hence, no matter how much you teach your children to abhor homosexuality, if they were born gay they will be gay. A cruel fate to be born gay into a family that teaches you that something you never chose is in fact a choice and it makes you morally inferior and mommy and daddy won't love you as much if they find out. It's a torture too many gay kids have to experience and no matter what I think about your opinions LC, I truly and honestly hope none of your children have to suffer because of your ignorance.
58
@ 55, such proof has been presented to you over and over. No, there's nothing conclusive yet as to whether it's caused by environmental or genetic causes, but the proof that it's not a choice is there. Continuing to claim that sexual orientation is a choice can only be done by ignoring all the evidence to the contrary.
Remember those couple of times when you speculated about fixing external causes of homosexuality if they could be identified? You were open to the idea that it's not a choice then.
I would give you - again - the proof you demand, but why bother? You'll just ignore it because your internal beliefs are far more valid to you than facts. That, by the way, makes your demand for scientific proof ironic in the extreme.
Remember those couple of times when you speculated about fixing external causes of homosexuality if they could be identified? You were open to the idea that it's not a choice then.
I would give you - again - the proof you demand, but why bother? You'll just ignore it because your internal beliefs are far more valid to you than facts. That, by the way, makes your demand for scientific proof ironic in the extreme.
59
It would be nice if non-biased scientific proof could be provided don't you think ?
Loveschild, you're the one with the bias. You have a bias against facts because they contradict what you would like to believe. How can you claim to have the moral high ground when you're so thoroughly dishonest?
Oh, wait, I understand. It's because you're thoroughly dishonest that you can claim that. You aren't concerned with the truth. You only believe what you want to believe.
61
Geez Kim (56) whoever was playing her that day was beyond vicious and vile to you. I'm sorry. I surely do hope you don't take this to heart. You're a superb human being----as a city on the hill, as the light shining in the darkness, you have few equals.
62
LC said "Regardless, should the ideal: a mother and father be disregarded when it comes to adoptions in favor of same sex couples just to please gays and not offend them or should the best interest of the child be place before anything?"
Srsly? Isn't the whole argument that there simply aren't enough adoptive parents in existence of any kind, gay or straight, married or single, to provide for the "best interests" of the child? It's not about choosing one orientation over the other to avoid "offending" anyone, it's about the fact that there's just way more supply than there is demand, an imbalance that could be remedied by simply raising some inane restrictions on who could be part of the "demand."
Does that make sense? Do you want to work on some reading comprehension, sometime? For starters, just make sure to read every line and make sure you aren't just reading the words, but the actual whole sentences. Let us know how it goes!
Srsly? Isn't the whole argument that there simply aren't enough adoptive parents in existence of any kind, gay or straight, married or single, to provide for the "best interests" of the child? It's not about choosing one orientation over the other to avoid "offending" anyone, it's about the fact that there's just way more supply than there is demand, an imbalance that could be remedied by simply raising some inane restrictions on who could be part of the "demand."
Does that make sense? Do you want to work on some reading comprehension, sometime? For starters, just make sure to read every line and make sure you aren't just reading the words, but the actual whole sentences. Let us know how it goes!
63
"I wish nothing but happiness and health of body, mind and soul to you."
Hah
Hahaha
No really, that's cute. Like you actually care about the well being of humanity.
Hah
Hahaha
No really, that's cute. Like you actually care about the well being of humanity.
64
@62 Do you believe that children deserve stability in their lives ? I do, that stability has always occurred when a man and a woman are in union, a union called marriage. That however is not the case when it comes to gay pairs at least when it comes to adoptions. The reason for that is because if we're going to be honest that's not the goal in homosexual relationships. The calls for the legalization of gay marriage at it's core are being done by homosexuals as a demand of something they feel entitled to in order to rationalize the normalcy of their movement not as a pattern that's regarded as typical withing the relationships that they form. In reality the number of those in same sex relations that wish to enter into marriage is very minimum. And as has been studied in nations where gay marriage has been implemented those few who do seek to pursue marriage as a viable option have a very high incidence of divorce rates when compared to those who are in traditional marriage.
www.uni-koeln.de/wiso-fak/fisoz/conferen…;
Based on this it is clear that children cannot fare in environments where continuum and permanency are more than often not the norm not only due to the instability presented in such relationships but also due to the myriad of challenges presented that range from health and high mortality rate issues that arise from the behavioral conducts of the adults to social constraints due to the reality of such pairings.
www.uni-koeln.de/wiso-fak/fisoz/conferen…;
Based on this it is clear that children cannot fare in environments where continuum and permanency are more than often not the norm not only due to the instability presented in such relationships but also due to the myriad of challenges presented that range from health and high mortality rate issues that arise from the behavioral conducts of the adults to social constraints due to the reality of such pairings.
65
Mr Fujita was the beneficiary as a child of a home reflective of that type of environment, reflective of the continuum and permanency that a man and a women in marriage can provide .He should then want first and foremost if possible, the same for all other children who find themselves in need of the same home he received. And place any personal views that he may have about homosexuality in a secondary position.
67
Where the hell do some people get off thinking that they have the right to tell others what their opinions, positions, or theology should be?
Who appointed them the all wise omniscient one?
Is is helpful?
No, they sound like arrogant fools.
They need to get a life.
It is their opinion and we all know what they say about opinions.
Who appointed them the all wise omniscient one?
Is is helpful?
No, they sound like arrogant fools.
They need to get a life.
It is their opinion and we all know what they say about opinions.
68
I think it's amazing that in a country that lives and dies by polls, nobody seems to be asking the children what they want. I was in foster care for years, and if I had been asked if I wanted a permanent home with a gay couple who liked me or if I would rather be bounced from placement to placement with people who were in it for the (amazingly measly) check, I wouldn't have had to think about it for more than 5 seconds.
Also, there are people who would want to have denied Fujita's adoption because his adoptive parents were a mixed-ethnicity couple.
What's really important when it comes to having loving homes for kids is not gay or straight. Neither is it about matching ethnicities. It's about having loving homes for children who need them. Loving parents beats no loving parents every day of the week.
Also, there are people who would want to have denied Fujita's adoption because his adoptive parents were a mixed-ethnicity couple.
What's really important when it comes to having loving homes for kids is not gay or straight. Neither is it about matching ethnicities. It's about having loving homes for children who need them. Loving parents beats no loving parents every day of the week.
69
Kim, opinions are like assholes - everybody has one. (And then you've got the people who are one.)
70
igub, thank you so much for your posts in this thread. If only the braying idiots on The Other Side could truly understand what they're braying about... And I know that stories like yours and your brother's are fucking LEGION... While certain people and certain state governments have their heads firmly lodged WAY UP their asses, it's the actual, real children who are suffering from such ass-headedness. WHY can't they see that? What do you do with people/systems/governments that insist that the sky is in fact orange AND you're a pervert for insisting it's blue?
@ 47 - Option 3 gets my vote. Most definitely.
@ 47 - Option 3 gets my vote. Most definitely.
71
@ 64 - You say "... stability has always occurred when a man and a woman are in union, a union called marriage."
So, igub's brother's stability consisted of, what.. Being certain that his biological hetero father was going to beat him till his bones broke? Knowing for sure that when he went to sleep at night, he'd be awoken with water thrown into his face? Having the assurance of watching his hetero biological mother turn tricks with a series of hetero men?
Who- or whatever you are, LC, just moving your fingers across a keyboard to write and publicly post the kind of stinking shit that you are now known for has got to be tarnishing your tiara, dear, in the grander scheme of things. Karma, baby, karma. It's not just a river in Egypt.
So, igub's brother's stability consisted of, what.. Being certain that his biological hetero father was going to beat him till his bones broke? Knowing for sure that when he went to sleep at night, he'd be awoken with water thrown into his face? Having the assurance of watching his hetero biological mother turn tricks with a series of hetero men?
Who- or whatever you are, LC, just moving your fingers across a keyboard to write and publicly post the kind of stinking shit that you are now known for has got to be tarnishing your tiara, dear, in the grander scheme of things. Karma, baby, karma. It's not just a river in Egypt.
72
Kim, dear Kim, chin up. LC is a lying venom-spewing troll, completely unworthy of your attention. You, on the other hand, are honest, caring, and steadfast. You are not obliged to be the antidote to her (them). Just being who you are in such a forthright way is a powerful witness.
Just sayin....
Just sayin....
73
Fifty-Two-Eighty,
Indeed. Thank you for the smile.
Attitude Devant,
Thank you. While I seem wired towards being tenderhearted and compassionate, I also rebound fairly well. No worries.
Indeed. Thank you for the smile.
Attitude Devant,
Thank you. While I seem wired towards being tenderhearted and compassionate, I also rebound fairly well. No worries.
74
Attitude Devant,
Thank you for the reminder to keep my chin up (I just saw it) and I needed it. I have had a rough time of it as late, suffered some personal losses, and I'm grieving the loss of a loved one. I'll be okay, what other option is there, and I should be less sensitive to the arrogance of others when I get to the other side. Thank you again for your kindness.
Fondly,
k
Thank you for the reminder to keep my chin up (I just saw it) and I needed it. I have had a rough time of it as late, suffered some personal losses, and I'm grieving the loss of a loved one. I'll be okay, what other option is there, and I should be less sensitive to the arrogance of others when I get to the other side. Thank you again for your kindness.
Fondly,
k
75
Loveschild, you are making less sense than usual today, and that's saying something.
Sexuality is NOT a behaviour. Some colleges have classes in human sexuality. Perhaps you should take one, and try to learn something.
Sexuality is NOT a behaviour. Some colleges have classes in human sexuality. Perhaps you should take one, and try to learn something.
76
In situations like this, my late really great brother used an old saying.......
IF SHIT WAS SNOW, YOU'D BE A BLIZZARD
IF SHIT WAS SNOW, YOU'D BE A BLIZZARD
78
I was already pulling for the Saints, since my RA (a Colts fan) and I have been having somewhat of a football war. But hey, another reason never hurts!
79
#54 My life is not a fact? Okay then...
And who said that gay couples would automatically get priority over hetero couples? Why are homophobes always so paranoid?
And who said that gay couples would automatically get priority over hetero couples? Why are homophobes always so paranoid?
80
All- LC thinks she's being a kind, loving xtian by telling us all 'the truth', per her imaginary friend who lives in her heart. She has no clue just how hateful, illogical, mean-spirited and nasty her comments are- she's doin' the lawd's bidness, tho it may cost her everything, seeing as how she's a martyr for Jeebus's sake. She enjoys being spat upon for Jeebus's sake- it's her reward for being a faithful follower.
I spent 13 years of my young life in a nest of vipers just like her, calling themselves xtians and hating teh gay, until I had to leave or kill myself with despair, because 13 years of doing her thing with the lawd didn't make me one bit less attracted to men.
I'd love to nail her to her cross personally, and I pray to any power who will listen she suffers the loss of all 3 of her 'morally-raised' children to 'the lie of homosexuality'. It's the only pennance a loving god could possibly give her for all the evil she spews and wishes for folks who had no choice over how God made them.
I spent 13 years of my young life in a nest of vipers just like her, calling themselves xtians and hating teh gay, until I had to leave or kill myself with despair, because 13 years of doing her thing with the lawd didn't make me one bit less attracted to men.
I'd love to nail her to her cross personally, and I pray to any power who will listen she suffers the loss of all 3 of her 'morally-raised' children to 'the lie of homosexuality'. It's the only pennance a loving god could possibly give her for all the evil she spews and wishes for folks who had no choice over how God made them.
81
I disagree with those who hope any of Loveschild's children turn out to be gay. She's such a hate-filled person she'd probably be at least emotionally abusive and make that child's life miserable. And she'd do it in the name of "love".
82
The issue of gay marriage is not an issue of gay or straight.
It is an issue of intolerence verses the tolerent, an issue of equality.
Social comformity, peer pressure ,personal insecurity, too often excused, too often hidden by an excuse rather then removed by a truth.
The world will not end nor will civilizations crumble if equality is granted to a lifestyle that has existed since before recorded time.
It will simply realize a reality has has always been a reality and in so doing one more needle in the bush of excused bigotry will be removed and a truth of self revealed.
That absolute un-questionable truth has always been the same. We are all a part of this world, we always have been.
The only abominations are the ones we create.
If there is any purpose to existance,it is to learn this single truth.
It is an issue of intolerence verses the tolerent, an issue of equality.
Social comformity, peer pressure ,personal insecurity, too often excused, too often hidden by an excuse rather then removed by a truth.
The world will not end nor will civilizations crumble if equality is granted to a lifestyle that has existed since before recorded time.
It will simply realize a reality has has always been a reality and in so doing one more needle in the bush of excused bigotry will be removed and a truth of self revealed.
That absolute un-questionable truth has always been the same. We are all a part of this world, we always have been.
The only abominations are the ones we create.
If there is any purpose to existance,it is to learn this single truth.
83
82
flowery words.
naive, but flowery.
many civilizations have crumbled from moral decadence.
some behaviors are so harmful to society as to be intolerable.
tolerating what is harmful does not remove the harm.
nor does flowery rhetoric.
nor does blindness to the danger.
we are not skipping to Gomorrah.
we are sprinting.
ashes.
flowery words.
naive, but flowery.
many civilizations have crumbled from moral decadence.
some behaviors are so harmful to society as to be intolerable.
tolerating what is harmful does not remove the harm.
nor does flowery rhetoric.
nor does blindness to the danger.
we are not skipping to Gomorrah.
we are sprinting.
ashes.
84
@ 64, 65:
"Do you believe that children deserve stability in their lives ? I do, that stability has always occurred when a man and a woman are in union, a union called marriage."
Maybe you're not saying what you think you're saying, because your grammar is often so poor, but, married man + woman /= stability. My father--who is still married to my mother, by the way--was a verbally-, emotionally-, and, on occasion, physically-abusive alcoholic (to me, not my mother...he never abused her). But, hey, my parents still have a lasting union! The stability must have gone over my head somehow inbetween all of those bouts of him screaming at me that I was failure and he wished I'd never been born because I waited five minutes to take out the garbage.
You're also missing the point of what Fujita's saying, but that's because you believe some ridiculous fantasy that marriage automatically equals stability, and a lack of marriage equals instant chaos. Marriage is a conference of certain legal rights, nothing more; after all, I'm getting married by a justice of the peace, imbuing my marriage to a fellow atheist with zero spiritual meaning. Yet, because of that piece of paper and a few legal penalties if one of us wants to jump ship, my spouse and I will be considered prime-parenting material over a gay couple when it comes to adoption.
"Do you believe that children deserve stability in their lives ? I do, that stability has always occurred when a man and a woman are in union, a union called marriage."
Maybe you're not saying what you think you're saying, because your grammar is often so poor, but, married man + woman /= stability. My father--who is still married to my mother, by the way--was a verbally-, emotionally-, and, on occasion, physically-abusive alcoholic (to me, not my mother...he never abused her). But, hey, my parents still have a lasting union! The stability must have gone over my head somehow inbetween all of those bouts of him screaming at me that I was failure and he wished I'd never been born because I waited five minutes to take out the garbage.
You're also missing the point of what Fujita's saying, but that's because you believe some ridiculous fantasy that marriage automatically equals stability, and a lack of marriage equals instant chaos. Marriage is a conference of certain legal rights, nothing more; after all, I'm getting married by a justice of the peace, imbuing my marriage to a fellow atheist with zero spiritual meaning. Yet, because of that piece of paper and a few legal penalties if one of us wants to jump ship, my spouse and I will be considered prime-parenting material over a gay couple when it comes to adoption.
85
Most children in foster care have behavioural or attachment issues, or cognitive impairment. Many are far behind in school, and have anxiety problems. Many are called 'special needs' children ... y'know, the sort of kids Dan makes fun of.
On a side note, adoption is not about parental rights. Nobody has the right to adopt. To say that you have a right to adopt, is to say the government has the obligation to fulfill that right, and this just isn't true. What if a family wants to adopt 5 white newborns? It's unlikely to happen, but if you call it a right ... it makes it sound like people have the "right" to children. Nobody has that right, whether those children are biologically yours or you went through an adoption process. It makes children sound like chattel.
Adoption should always be about children's rights; it should be about the children, not you. It is about finding a child a suitable, loving home. When we make it about the parents, and what adults should "have", the practice will become discriminatory. When we focus on what is best for the children, it becomes obvious: allow anyone suitable (gay or straight) to adopt.
On a side note, adoption is not about parental rights. Nobody has the right to adopt. To say that you have a right to adopt, is to say the government has the obligation to fulfill that right, and this just isn't true. What if a family wants to adopt 5 white newborns? It's unlikely to happen, but if you call it a right ... it makes it sound like people have the "right" to children. Nobody has that right, whether those children are biologically yours or you went through an adoption process. It makes children sound like chattel.
Adoption should always be about children's rights; it should be about the children, not you. It is about finding a child a suitable, loving home. When we make it about the parents, and what adults should "have", the practice will become discriminatory. When we focus on what is best for the children, it becomes obvious: allow anyone suitable (gay or straight) to adopt.
86
Now don't go making sense @ 85. That will blow people's minds. We'll have brains splattered everywhere.
87
And of course, now we know the truth:
God wanted The Saints to win. Was it because of Fujita? We cannot know; only God can know God's reasons. However, the outcome is crystal clear: a New Orleans victory was Heaven-sanctioned.
Proving yet even again one more time: LC is out of the loop. Even the Football Loop of God. Poor LC.
God wanted The Saints to win. Was it because of Fujita? We cannot know; only God can know God's reasons. However, the outcome is crystal clear: a New Orleans victory was Heaven-sanctioned.
Proving yet even again one more time: LC is out of the loop. Even the Football Loop of God. Poor LC.
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