Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, February 3, 2010
1
See, that's exactly what he's afraid of. That the gheys will be take over the military, infiltrate the joint chiefs, and try to cornhole him at the next State of the Union address. It's totally justified!
2
Oh, and someone needs to ask McCain why he thinks the policy is "imperfect but effective" by outlining exactly what it is effective at? I want him to have to say something like, "Well, it's effective at preventing man-on-man shower stall fellatio on base".
4
What a ding dong McCain is. Hell, I'm old (though he's older) and I don't think like this old creep. It's time for him to be thrown out of office, shut down and shut up. It's never about doing what's right for this sort of politician. It's only about power. His wife should bitch-slap him twice a day. Too many of these senators and congressmen are too damn old and should be gone from their seats. I think 70 should be the upper limit. Yeah, fuck John McCain.
5
Why is this a surprise? McCain is facing a primary challenge from JD Hayworth, who is coming from the far right and opposing him on immigration. He's never been a member of the religious right and isn't an extremist (he's fairly mainstream as the republicans go on gay issues, which is to say he's opposed to marriage equality and adoption). He's pandering to win re-election to the Senate. I get the impression that he really doesn't give a shit about gays in the military. All the more reason to throw him out.
6
McCain has been pussy-whipped into submission by the neocons and teabaggers who have hijacked the already-disgusting Republican party. He has long abandoned his 'maverick' credentials that he actually used to deserve.
7
@5 is correct - he's facing a serious primary challenge right now. And it is Arizona, remember. I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt.
8
Thank goodness he wasn't ever in the military, otherwise his questioning of the directives of the top brass and the commander-in-chief could be seen as crass and unbecoming.
9
McCain is a douche. doesn't he know that LGBT rights are civil rights? http://www.politics3.com/ViewArticleGall…
11
McCain who's a jerk when it comes to most thing is actually on the correct side in this. By "effective" he means keeping recruitment numbers stable, keeping cohesion within those that are already serving and not overburdening the institution with the creation of new departments set with the purpose of overseeing procedures and special laws for open homosexuals. This policy needs to be looked at prudently and just because one general makes a "personal" remark which he himself says it's his own view and that other generals feel otherwise, is not enough to go and cause trauma to our military. The first thing that needs to be done is a survey that's overseen by non-biased members of the military. The last for Congress to make a decision based on those findings.
13
Fuck yourself, you clueless whining pussy.
The Defense Secretary and Joint Chiefs Chairman are not "the military's top brass".
They are political appointees who serve the will of their political masters.
McCain grilled Joint Chiefs Chairman Mullen about the positions of the actual heads of the services, Mullen said he did not know it, McCain suggested he find out.
Mullen also said he was expressing his PERSONAL view and not representing the the Joint Chiefs.
Learn to read, Dan.
The Defense Secretary and Joint Chiefs Chairman are not "the military's top brass".
They are political appointees who serve the will of their political masters.
McCain grilled Joint Chiefs Chairman Mullen about the positions of the actual heads of the services, Mullen said he did not know it, McCain suggested he find out.
Mullen also said he was expressing his PERSONAL view and not representing the the Joint Chiefs.
Learn to read, Dan.
14
Yglesias highlights the same article and argues that Obama's slow, deliberate approach has been vindicated by the support that he is getting from the military.
15
It's because he has a serious primary opponent from the far right, Representative Hayworth. He needs to move to the right to save his ass.
What a phony asshole.
What a phony asshole.
16
@ 11
No, there does not need to be any surveys of the military. We live in a democracy where the elected president is in charge of the military. We do not live in some goddamn banana republic where the military is separate.
(Our country was actually founded on the principles that there would not be a permanent standing army. That's the real reason why there is a 2nd Amendment. But that's another topic altogether.)
Obama needs to strike the ruling down by executive order. He can do it today and the military brass can STFU about it. Or they can resign.
No, there does not need to be any surveys of the military. We live in a democracy where the elected president is in charge of the military. We do not live in some goddamn banana republic where the military is separate.
(Our country was actually founded on the principles that there would not be a permanent standing army. That's the real reason why there is a 2nd Amendment. But that's another topic altogether.)
Obama needs to strike the ruling down by executive order. He can do it today and the military brass can STFU about it. Or they can resign.
17
America's closest allies have had LBGT people serving openly in their armies for decades; they've never experienced any disciplinary, performance, recruitment, sexual misconduct, resignation or other problems as a result.
Are America's military men and women less professional and capable than their foreign counterparts?
Is America's military inherently more prone to disciplinary, performance, sexual misconduct and cohesion problems?
Does the "top brass" in America's military suffer from a lack of authority (or to put it another way, is there a widespread insubordination problem)?
If the answers to these questions are yes, then you've got far, far bigger problems than Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
Are America's military men and women less professional and capable than their foreign counterparts?
Is America's military inherently more prone to disciplinary, performance, sexual misconduct and cohesion problems?
Does the "top brass" in America's military suffer from a lack of authority (or to put it another way, is there a widespread insubordination problem)?
If the answers to these questions are yes, then you've got far, far bigger problems than Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
18
i'd be more worked up about DADT if the US military, like marriage, wasn't an institution in which NO ONE should participate.
19
To over simplify, there are two types of politician.
One is the type that votes with the courage of their conviction, regardless of how it effects their career. That type is highlighted in JFK's masterpiece, "Profiles in Courage". Oregon Sen Wayne Morse, for instance, who was one of only two senators voting against the Golf of Tonkin Resolution. Or TX Gov Sam Houston, who opposed secession. Both lost their offices, as a result.
The other type are those that change their positions every time there is controversy or a slight shift in public opinion. They will do whatever it takes to further their careers and to maintain power.
An example of this type of politician was Alabama Governor George Wallace. At the beginning of his career he was known as being fair and being a moderate on race matters, but, after losing his first bid for governor to a man supported by the KKK, he declared that he would "never be out-niggered again."
Senator McCain seems to be somewhere in between these two versions of a politician, although he increasingly has become the latter version. He has been more brave in the past, having pushed campaign finance reform and for stating, in the 80s, that there were no more POWs in Vietnam.
One is the type that votes with the courage of their conviction, regardless of how it effects their career. That type is highlighted in JFK's masterpiece, "Profiles in Courage". Oregon Sen Wayne Morse, for instance, who was one of only two senators voting against the Golf of Tonkin Resolution. Or TX Gov Sam Houston, who opposed secession. Both lost their offices, as a result.
The other type are those that change their positions every time there is controversy or a slight shift in public opinion. They will do whatever it takes to further their careers and to maintain power.
An example of this type of politician was Alabama Governor George Wallace. At the beginning of his career he was known as being fair and being a moderate on race matters, but, after losing his first bid for governor to a man supported by the KKK, he declared that he would "never be out-niggered again."
Senator McCain seems to be somewhere in between these two versions of a politician, although he increasingly has become the latter version. He has been more brave in the past, having pushed campaign finance reform and for stating, in the 80s, that there were no more POWs in Vietnam.
20
Ironic also is that this would not have happened if Obama had not picked Governor Janet Napolitano to be Director of Homeland Security. She was considering a run against McCain and it would have been very competitive.
If she were running against him right now, he would not be moving to the right. In fact, he would probably be moving more to the left (maybe he would have even supported a version of health care reform early on).
I think the removal of Napolitano was one of the stupidest things Obama has done.
Not only did it give the Governor's office to a Republican right before reapportionment but it also gave McCain a free pass (at least from the Democrats).
Coupled with embarrassing appointment blunders in NY, DE and IL, we now are in the position of there being a chance of the Democrats losing the Senate.
blech
If she were running against him right now, he would not be moving to the right. In fact, he would probably be moving more to the left (maybe he would have even supported a version of health care reform early on).
I think the removal of Napolitano was one of the stupidest things Obama has done.
Not only did it give the Governor's office to a Republican right before reapportionment but it also gave McCain a free pass (at least from the Democrats).
Coupled with embarrassing appointment blunders in NY, DE and IL, we now are in the position of there being a chance of the Democrats losing the Senate.
blech
21
I was in the military for 7.5 years. I met knew several gays and lesbians while serving. No one really gave a shit as far as I can tell. Except for the religious nuts, which there were definitely a few. In fact, one of those religious nuts (and supposedly happily marriage) was arrested for molesting little boys.
Typical, aye?
As for showering with other men, the only time I did that was during the 9 weeks of basic training. We had only a few minutes to get ready. I can assure you that there would never be enough time for anything sexual to occur. In fact we were all so scared shitless that we didn't care about other men looking at us, nor did we care about looking at other guys.
Anyone who has ever been in the military knows that. All these excuses are a bunch of shit.
Typical, aye?
As for showering with other men, the only time I did that was during the 9 weeks of basic training. We had only a few minutes to get ready. I can assure you that there would never be enough time for anything sexual to occur. In fact we were all so scared shitless that we didn't care about other men looking at us, nor did we care about looking at other guys.
Anyone who has ever been in the military knows that. All these excuses are a bunch of shit.
22
@11 by "non-biased sources", you mean "sources that agree with me". Why can't you be the one who goes to Afghanistan and gets shot?...
23
@13: Alleged, you are just about as dumb as anything. The issue is not that McCain is disagreeing with the statement; the issue is that McCain had previously said that he'd support repealing DADT when the JCoS said it was a good idea, and now he's saying that we shouldn't repeal it, their opinion be damned.
25
"The reason why I supported the policy to start with is because General Colin Powell, who was then the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is the one that strongly recommended we adopt this policy in the Clinton administration. I have not heard General Powell or any of the other military leaders reverse their position," - McCain, yesterday.
“In the almost 17 years since the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ legislation was passed, attitudes and circumstances have changed. I fully support the new approach presented to the Senate Armed Services Committee this week by Secretary of Defense Gates and Admiral Mullen," Colin Powell, today.
“In the almost 17 years since the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ legislation was passed, attitudes and circumstances have changed. I fully support the new approach presented to the Senate Armed Services Committee this week by Secretary of Defense Gates and Admiral Mullen," Colin Powell, today.
26
So wait, kicking highly competent, skilled, and trained people out of the military *just* for being gay is an effective measure? Somehow (It's horrible!), I'm just not getting this.
27
@24: The Joint Chiefs of Staff and other high-ranking officials relevant to the issue. Duh. I referenced the JCoS earlier in the same sentence, you gibbering spit-for-brains fool.
I am neither vemon, vorange, vrapefruit, vlime, vangerine, vlementine, nor vitron. I am venomlash. Learn it. Know it. Or don't use it.
I am neither vemon, vorange, vrapefruit, vlime, vangerine, vlementine, nor vitron. I am venomlash. Learn it. Know it. Or don't use it.
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