Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, February 3, 2010
Hetero Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 8:07 AM
A California man who killed himself and his 9-month-old son in an apparent murder-suicide left dozens of angry, desperate messages to the boy's mother.... The suicide note was posted to Facebook eight hours after the bodies were discovered, and the memorial collage was added early Monday. The memorial features a photo of Garcia and his son sleeping peacefully on a Mickey Mouse pillow, with the dates of their births and joint death overlaid in white cursive script. A message at the bottom reads, in part, "There! Now we're sleeping with you ... Find it in your heart to forgive me. It's my job to protect him. I know God will welcome our son with open arms."
2
Frankly, I will never, ever understand co-dependent people. "IF I CAN'T HAVE YOU THEN I'M JUST GOING TO KILL MYSELF." And in this case, kill our child too.
Are they truly unable to form any other type of human bond, other than the parasitic ones they develop??
Sad that he had to take a child's life in the process.
Are they truly unable to form any other type of human bond, other than the parasitic ones they develop??
Sad that he had to take a child's life in the process.
3
The gist of this tragedy:
"Court records show the baby's mother filed a request for a restraining order in San Bernardino County Court in December, but it was denied on Jan. 12 because Garcia was not considered a "threat to petitioner or the minor child."
The only thing this tragedy proves is how once again incompetent California courts, preoccupied with overturning the peoples vote, have failed to do the job they're supposed to be doing and lives have been lost as a result.
"Court records show the baby's mother filed a request for a restraining order in San Bernardino County Court in December, but it was denied on Jan. 12 because Garcia was not considered a "threat to petitioner or the minor child."
The only thing this tragedy proves is how once again incompetent California courts, preoccupied with overturning the peoples vote, have failed to do the job they're supposed to be doing and lives have been lost as a result.
4
@ 3, yeah, right, because the courts that hear family issues and restraining orders are the same ones that decide Constitutional issues.
Asshat.
Asshat.
5
Loveschild, do you ever venture into reality? What you seem to be saying here is that it's acceptable--or at least worth it, from a big picture perspective--that someone killed himself and his child because you get to score a point about how incompetent the courts are.
How sick are you that you're actually happy that this happened?
How sick are you that you're actually happy that this happened?
7
i've seen so many of these i've actually started to associate the fight for gay marriage with child abuse and dead babies. nice work, Dan
8
@5 I'm not the one using every tragedy that involves a minor to move forward a personal agenda to redefine the family structure just because I don't like it and seek a societal seal of approval for the choices I've made. You need to look at the author of the repeated "Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father" posts for that.
10
@5 - not that I take any pleasure in defending Loveschild (ever) but I fail to see how her comment suggests that she is in any way "happy this happened". Far from it, in fact.
11
I'm not the one using every tragedy that involves a minor to move forward a personal agenda to redefine the family structure just because I don't like it...
First, claiming "every tragedy" is exaggerating, and second, you are using a tragedy to push your own personal agenda. Mr. Savage is pointing out that "traditional" family structures don't always work. Are you honestly trying to claim otherwise?
Whether you are or not, you're trying to make a completely unrelated court case responsible for this tragedy.
Also, please spare us "the will of the people" crap. You only believe in "the will of the people when it goes your way.
First, claiming "every tragedy" is exaggerating, and second, you are using a tragedy to push your own personal agenda. Mr. Savage is pointing out that "traditional" family structures don't always work. Are you honestly trying to claim otherwise?
Whether you are or not, you're trying to make a completely unrelated court case responsible for this tragedy.
Also, please spare us "the will of the people" crap. You only believe in "the will of the people when it goes your way.
12
8, Loveschild, if gay families are affecting yours, then your family isn't very strong. If your family is falling apart, that is your own doing, not gay folks.
13
But, @8 - "to move forward a personal agenda to redefine the family structure just because I don't like it"
That may be how you see it, but to me Dan is simply pointing out the terrible things that happen in traditional "family structures", since his opponents are always quick to imply that one mother + one father = good, happy family.
Surely even you can appreciate that if the tables were turned and the couple had been gay, conservative folks would wave this around as an example of how sick "the gays" are.
That may be how you see it, but to me Dan is simply pointing out the terrible things that happen in traditional "family structures", since his opponents are always quick to imply that one mother + one father = good, happy family.
Surely even you can appreciate that if the tables were turned and the couple had been gay, conservative folks would wave this around as an example of how sick "the gays" are.
14
@10, Loveschild is making political hay out of this. Or rather spinning political straw into gold. Perhaps I'm reading too much into her remarks, but it seems like she's actually glad that one court made a terrible mistake with tragic consequences because it allows her to place blame on another court and a completely unrelated court case.
She can't come up with a valid argument against same-sex marriage, so she's going to take tragic events and cry, "See? This is what happens!" Maybe "happy" is the wrong word, but she does seem to say that her narrow-mindedness is somehow justified by this tragedy.
She can't come up with a valid argument against same-sex marriage, so she's going to take tragic events and cry, "See? This is what happens!" Maybe "happy" is the wrong word, but she does seem to say that her narrow-mindedness is somehow justified by this tragedy.
15
@Loveschild: why go on trolling these message boards when your viewpoint isn't welcome and is viewed as repugnant?
I personally think you're some variety of masochist who gets off sexually on the rejection.
Any thoughts?
I personally think you're some variety of masochist who gets off sexually on the rejection.
Any thoughts?
16
maybe she's actually dan, hiding to get posters to make stronger arguments about their beleifs...or like a frustrated sociology professor. nobody is that blindly hateful, right?
17
@11 What in heavens name do you call all the "Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father" posts if not a tragedy ? You're so blinded (as many are here) by everything Dan writes that you've lost all sense of right and wrong. I fail to see how I'm pushing any agenda by pointing the obvious, take a look @7 and you'll see who has been effectively ( at least here) pushing an agenda.
So no sweetie, I'm not the one who seems to be using these horrific stories about minors being abused, harmed or killed, not even stories about the potential of such a things happening would use be something that I would see as entertaining, I dread these stories and pray that no mother ever goes thru something like this. I doubt that can be said about someone like the author of the "Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father" posts, because his "heart goes out" to "good pedophiles". You got that right, that's what he's written as advice.
So no sweetie, I'm not the one who seems to be using these horrific stories about minors being abused, harmed or killed, not even stories about the potential of such a things happening would use be something that I would see as entertaining, I dread these stories and pray that no mother ever goes thru something like this. I doubt that can be said about someone like the author of the "Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father" posts, because his "heart goes out" to "good pedophiles". You got that right, that's what he's written as advice.
18
Loveschild, you want to stop gay people from marrying. You are pushing your agenda on gay people. Gay people just want to be able to get married. Unless you can say how that is hurting your family, you have absolutely no argument.
19
@ 17, prove it. Link it, or have the good courtesy to admit that you're taking things out of context, if not just outright lying.
Links or an apology. Nothing less will do.
Links or an apology. Nothing less will do.
20
@15 You mean like people on your side "troll" on marriage and family websites and discussion boards to promote the gay marriage ?
21
@ 20, do you know for a fact that any of us do this?
No, you don't.
Anyway, where are those links to Dan's quotes? Or rather, since I know you don't have any, a decent, Christian apology?
No, you don't.
Anyway, where are those links to Dan's quotes? Or rather, since I know you don't have any, a decent, Christian apology?
22
I'm not the one who seems to be using these horrific stories about minors being abused, harmed or killed
Loveschild, is there anything in your religion that prohibits dishonesty? Because earlier you said, "The only thing this tragedy proves is how once again incompetent California courts, preoccupied with overturning the peoples vote, have failed to do the job they're supposed to be doing and lives have been lost as a result." (Emphasis mine.)
Not only have you failed to address any of the points made in response to your spin, but you are guilty of what you accuse others of doing. In the comment I've quoted you are USING this tragedy to claim that the California courts are responsible because of a completely unrelated case involving same-sex marriage.
Several people here keep repeating the facts and yet you just keep lying.
Loveschild, is there anything in your religion that prohibits dishonesty? Because earlier you said, "The only thing this tragedy proves is how once again incompetent California courts, preoccupied with overturning the peoples vote, have failed to do the job they're supposed to be doing and lives have been lost as a result." (Emphasis mine.)
Not only have you failed to address any of the points made in response to your spin, but you are guilty of what you accuse others of doing. In the comment I've quoted you are USING this tragedy to claim that the California courts are responsible because of a completely unrelated case involving same-sex marriage.
Several people here keep repeating the facts and yet you just keep lying.
23
Loveschild is Totally correct here. This is just one aspect of the Homosexual agenda that is slowly but surely unfolding. What the stories don't tell you is the father trained at a Homosexual Agenda training camp in The Castro and then moved to a finishing school in the Village (NYC). Yes. It's true. He had special training in the areas of getting mad, getting even, bitchiness, vindictive behavior, and hair products. The son too, that innocent sweet little boy was taught in his classroom that two Daddies and or Two Mommies are just as good as one homicidal Daddy. And that happened as Loveschild said because the CA Supreme Court said everyone in California should be treated equally under the law. Those nasty judges thinking everyone should be treated Equally. Feh on them!
I TOTALLY see loveschild's connection of the two, don't you!
I TOTALLY see loveschild's connection of the two, don't you!
25
@17: Loveschild, you ignorant cuntwhorebitch, my heart goes out to those "good pedophiles" too. Why? They demonstrate a remarkable strength of character and resolve; their neurochemistry has cursed them with an immoral attraction to children and yet they restrain those inappropriate urges because they know it's the right thing to do. So you think that people are bad people because they do the right thing even though their bodies are telling them to do the wrong thing?
You are just as dumb as horse shit.
The point of the "ECDaMaaF" posts is to demonstrate the false nature of the wacko religious claim that "traditional families" are naturally stable and superior to gay marriages.
You are just as dumb as horse shit.
The point of the "ECDaMaaF" posts is to demonstrate the false nature of the wacko religious claim that "traditional families" are naturally stable and superior to gay marriages.
27
@ Southern Gentleman: Can you quote the comment I've made about being "glad" to see these horror stories ? I didn't think so.
And again, you don't ever see any posts here about child abuse perpetrated by homosexuals do you ? Now, why would that be? Certainly it's not because they don't happen, sadly homosexuals do commit those unforgivably heinous crimes. Why aren't they being posted here then ? By solely looking at Slog one would think they don't tho.
And again, you don't ever see any posts here about child abuse perpetrated by homosexuals do you ? Now, why would that be? Certainly it's not because they don't happen, sadly homosexuals do commit those unforgivably heinous crimes. Why aren't they being posted here then ? By solely looking at Slog one would think they don't tho.
28
Loveschild is correct. If only there was a restraining order this whole thing would have been prevented.
This kid would have been the next Tim Tebow if it wasn't for gay people. Fact.
This kid would have been the next Tim Tebow if it wasn't for gay people. Fact.
29
@Loveschild, I said you were "happy" to read about this particular tragedy because it gave you an opportunity to blame something completely unrelated. If I'm mistaken about that I apologize. Pat Robertson may have been horrified by the earthquake in Haiti, but that didn't stop him from using it to push his beliefs. Similarly you may be horrified by this particular story but that doesn't stop you from using it to push your beliefs.
As for child abuse perpetrated by homosexuals, I realize it happens. This may come as a shock to you but heterosexuals also abuse children--no matter how much you would like to deny it. However you're missing the point. Go back and read Venomlash's comment@25 to see what the real point is.
As for child abuse perpetrated by homosexuals, I realize it happens. This may come as a shock to you but heterosexuals also abuse children--no matter how much you would like to deny it. However you're missing the point. Go back and read Venomlash's comment@25 to see what the real point is.
30
Thank you, LC. It's clear from reading that column that you are taking things out of context. Therefore, you owe Dan a HUGE apology. So let's see it.
31
This is one of my first times that I have read these comments, and I see the poison spread like cancer. I am a fan of Dan Savage, but I find it distasteful to use horrific tragedies to promote one's agenda. I believe in gay marriage and I support gay rights, but I do NOT support profiteering off tragedies such as the one's in "Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father." It is spiteful and in poor taste. I felt this before I read these comments, and I feel even more stronger about it now.
To anti-gay LoveChild. the death of this child has nothing to do with the 'gay-agenda'. The courts spent time on this matter and they made a decision based on the information they had provided for them. Unfortunately, not all the evidence was provided (or maybe even available) and no judge can predict with 100% accuracy the outcome of every individual that comes in through those doors. The only lack of judgment was made by the father himself. You can't call the court system inapt based on a handful of cases that went sour.
It comes down to this. Gays are just as capable as being incapable parents as straight couples. There isn't a difference between the two. There are individuals who, since birth, have been brainwashed that there is something wrong with being gay, just as there are gays who will use columns such as E.C.D.A.M.F to promote their (legitimate) agenda. None of these issues change the fact that everyone has a right to be equal. We all bleed red no matter what your orientation is, and we all have a heart, a brain, and the same characteristics that make us human. We all deserve to be treated equal, until an individual proves otherwise. That is the basis of freedom. Race, Creed, sexuality, sex, or religion should not determine ones rights.
To anti-gay LoveChild. the death of this child has nothing to do with the 'gay-agenda'. The courts spent time on this matter and they made a decision based on the information they had provided for them. Unfortunately, not all the evidence was provided (or maybe even available) and no judge can predict with 100% accuracy the outcome of every individual that comes in through those doors. The only lack of judgment was made by the father himself. You can't call the court system inapt based on a handful of cases that went sour.
It comes down to this. Gays are just as capable as being incapable parents as straight couples. There isn't a difference between the two. There are individuals who, since birth, have been brainwashed that there is something wrong with being gay, just as there are gays who will use columns such as E.C.D.A.M.F to promote their (legitimate) agenda. None of these issues change the fact that everyone has a right to be equal. We all bleed red no matter what your orientation is, and we all have a heart, a brain, and the same characteristics that make us human. We all deserve to be treated equal, until an individual proves otherwise. That is the basis of freedom. Race, Creed, sexuality, sex, or religion should not determine ones rights.
34
@25 So now you think pedophilia is something intrinsic to human nature also. Why am I not surprised by that nor by Dan's sympathy. If you believe and sympathize with such a dangerous thing then I have to admitt I'm just baffled by your logic or lack thereof venom.
35
@Loveschild so the gist of your position is:
- Publishing tragic stories of abuse of children by their biological heterosexual parents as a way of making the (admittedly obvious) point that heterosexuality does not equal healthy parenting ---> Wildly inappropriate and exploitative.
- Implying that the failure of a court to impose a restraining order, leading to the death of an infant, is somehow caused by the fact that a much higher court is considering same-sex marriage, and hence the death of this baby is the fault of people who want equal marriage rights ----> A-OK
Right. No hypocrisy involved in this at all.
- Publishing tragic stories of abuse of children by their biological heterosexual parents as a way of making the (admittedly obvious) point that heterosexuality does not equal healthy parenting ---> Wildly inappropriate and exploitative.
- Implying that the failure of a court to impose a restraining order, leading to the death of an infant, is somehow caused by the fact that a much higher court is considering same-sex marriage, and hence the death of this baby is the fault of people who want equal marriage rights ----> A-OK
Right. No hypocrisy involved in this at all.
36
Loveschild, you know what never ceases to baffle me? Your outright hypocrisy, your dishonesty, and also your selectivity. Any time someone makes a valid point that you can't respond to you just walk away and pretend it never happened.
38
No hypocrisy whatsoever, if Dan can attempt to make a poor connection in poor taste between the tragic death of a minor and how somehow this means that mothers and fathers are not the ideal for children so the wants of homosexuals should be placed before the needs of children. Then I can point to one of the real problems within the court systems that certainly precipitated this murder. That is a lack of resources and focusing on the welfare and what's best for the most vulnerable in our society, children.
39
Then I can point to one of the real problems within the court systems that certainly precipitated this murder. That is a lack of resources and focusing on the welfare and what's best for the most vulnerable in our society, children.
So you're admitting, now at least, that you're claiming that a completely unrelated court case really is somehow the cause of this tragedy. Bravo. How exactly is the same-sex marriage case currently in the California courts harm children, though? Please show your work, since I can't find any connection, other than the imaginary one you're drawing.
If you're concerned about a lack of resources, I have a great idea. Let's throw out the court case and treat same-sex couples as equal under the law. Then we won't have people asking for equal treatment tying up the court system. Unfortunately, though, you'll have to find some other way to blame tragedies like this one on same-sex marriage, but I'm sure you'll find a way.
So you're admitting, now at least, that you're claiming that a completely unrelated court case really is somehow the cause of this tragedy. Bravo. How exactly is the same-sex marriage case currently in the California courts harm children, though? Please show your work, since I can't find any connection, other than the imaginary one you're drawing.
If you're concerned about a lack of resources, I have a great idea. Let's throw out the court case and treat same-sex couples as equal under the law. Then we won't have people asking for equal treatment tying up the court system. Unfortunately, though, you'll have to find some other way to blame tragedies like this one on same-sex marriage, but I'm sure you'll find a way.
41
@38 - Again, totally agree.
Could we go as far as stating that the State of Califoria should sue the mother for tying up precious court resources by filing for a spurious restraining order for herself? Clearly the child was the only one in need of protection here. Obvious to me, to you, and should have been to the courts if they weren't tied up adjudicating gay rights and uneeded protection orders.
Could we go as far as stating that the State of Califoria should sue the mother for tying up precious court resources by filing for a spurious restraining order for herself? Clearly the child was the only one in need of protection here. Obvious to me, to you, and should have been to the courts if they weren't tied up adjudicating gay rights and uneeded protection orders.
42
The website he made just for bugging Katie is http://www.detrimentalind.com/. It's pretty sick. He archived every single text he ever sent her - they're so awful. This isn't the worst one but it's maybe the most relevant to "every child needs"...
"WYATT NEEDS YOU EVERYDAY! NOT PART TIME, AND I NEED YOU! HE NEEDS US BOLTH FULL TIME PLEASE DONT GIVE UP YOUR SO STRONG FUCKING FIGHT KATIE HE NEEDS US BOTH THERE WHEN HE COMES HOME FROM SCHOOL HE NEEDS US WHEN HE IS SICK WHEN HE IS SAD HE NEEDS US TO HUG HIM AND TELL HIM HOW PROUD WE ARE OF HIM HE NEEDS US BOTH TO BE HAPPY! I NEED YOU TO BE HAPPY!"
I'm going to stop reading these now because they're making me sick to my stomach. He archived photos of EVERY TEXT HE EVER SENT HER - and the one day I opened had 200. It's a fucking mystery to me why they didn't grant the restraining order.
-Sarah
"WYATT NEEDS YOU EVERYDAY! NOT PART TIME, AND I NEED YOU! HE NEEDS US BOLTH FULL TIME PLEASE DONT GIVE UP YOUR SO STRONG FUCKING FIGHT KATIE HE NEEDS US BOTH THERE WHEN HE COMES HOME FROM SCHOOL HE NEEDS US WHEN HE IS SICK WHEN HE IS SAD HE NEEDS US TO HUG HIM AND TELL HIM HOW PROUD WE ARE OF HIM HE NEEDS US BOTH TO BE HAPPY! I NEED YOU TO BE HAPPY!"
I'm going to stop reading these now because they're making me sick to my stomach. He archived photos of EVERY TEXT HE EVER SENT HER - and the one day I opened had 200. It's a fucking mystery to me why they didn't grant the restraining order.
-Sarah
43
Oh god oh god, also:
http://www.hidesertstar.com/articles/201…
I hope that judge is fired. There has to be some other penalty for that, too. There has to be.
http://www.hidesertstar.com/articles/201…
I hope that judge is fired. There has to be some other penalty for that, too. There has to be.
44
Sarah@42&43, I agree that this is probably a case of judicial incompetence or, at the very least, an incredibly tragic oversight.
It is not, however, in any way related to the same-sex marriage case now being heard by a separate court, in spite of Loveschild's attempts to exploit it in that way. I'm sure there were similar cases that occurred when, say, Brown v. Board of Education was making its way through the courts. Claiming that those cases had anything to do with the fact that a challenge to segregation laws would have been just as irrelevant then as Lovechild's argument is now.
It is not, however, in any way related to the same-sex marriage case now being heard by a separate court, in spite of Loveschild's attempts to exploit it in that way. I'm sure there were similar cases that occurred when, say, Brown v. Board of Education was making its way through the courts. Claiming that those cases had anything to do with the fact that a challenge to segregation laws would have been just as irrelevant then as Lovechild's argument is now.
45
Yes many boys/men go to 'voilence school'. It's called society, the playground and it's only going to change threw lots of hard work. Check out manalive it's worked for me!
http://mavcenter.org/
http://mavcenter.org/
46
So sad.
And, to those who were not here last year, and to those who have limited memory, Dan has posted about gay parents who abuse their children. The particular one that haunts me is the father that was offering his small son for sex. And, I remember that our dear LC was very vocal on that thread.
That said, these post are hard to read. My heart goes out to that mother. The denial of restraining orders is common, from what I have seen here. Proof of threat to actual violence towards the woman is demanded to obtain one. I am unclear if the woman was filed the restraining order for her own protection, or she wanted to petition the court to remove her son from his father's care. I am unclear if restraining orders in CA can be applied towards minor children. Did the judge see the texts? Was she physcially threatened in them? I don't know, I have not read them.
And, to those who were not here last year, and to those who have limited memory, Dan has posted about gay parents who abuse their children. The particular one that haunts me is the father that was offering his small son for sex. And, I remember that our dear LC was very vocal on that thread.
That said, these post are hard to read. My heart goes out to that mother. The denial of restraining orders is common, from what I have seen here. Proof of threat to actual violence towards the woman is demanded to obtain one. I am unclear if the woman was filed the restraining order for her own protection, or she wanted to petition the court to remove her son from his father's care. I am unclear if restraining orders in CA can be applied towards minor children. Did the judge see the texts? Was she physcially threatened in them? I don't know, I have not read them.
48
Hey Loveschild! Jesus called me up on my cellular just now and He wanted me to pass a message along to you (He said He tried to reach you but your line was busy - WTF girlfriend, dial-up.. in 2010!?!? For reals??)...
Anyhoo... Here is Jesus' message for you: "One of these days 'Loveschild', one of these days.... POW! Right in the kisser!"
I dunno, Lc, He didn't sound too happy... If'n I was you, I'd, you know, be toning it down a bit, I think..... You don't wanna be on the wrong side of His Wrath.
Anyhoo... Here is Jesus' message for you: "One of these days 'Loveschild', one of these days.... POW! Right in the kisser!"
I dunno, Lc, He didn't sound too happy... If'n I was you, I'd, you know, be toning it down a bit, I think..... You don't wanna be on the wrong side of His Wrath.
49
Kim, it looks like Loveschild already chimed in on the story you linked to. I guess her memory is no better than her reading comprehension.
These stories are all incredibly sad, but I wish Loveschild would quit trying to make this one into something it isn't.
These stories are all incredibly sad, but I wish Loveschild would quit trying to make this one into something it isn't.
52
Family annihilators are a rare, but global phenomenon. FBI Behavioral Research likes to profile heads of household in strict social climes. Social conservatives are high risk.
Regarding the point of these posts, I reiterate...
Regarding the point of these posts, I reiterate...
53
I'm sure most sane people stopped reading this thread long ago but I'lll give it a shot anyway.
Please please stop acknowledging this LC "concoction" for lack of a better word. He/she/them are just trying to bait you guys and ya, it works every time. Wanna drive him/her/them insane? IGNORE them. No attention whore can stand to be ignored. If you don't acknowledge the posts it's like he/she/they don't exist. It's really fun. Give it a try? It always gets the discussion off topic and everyone is just sniping. I know y'all are better than that. Cheers!
Please please stop acknowledging this LC "concoction" for lack of a better word. He/she/them are just trying to bait you guys and ya, it works every time. Wanna drive him/her/them insane? IGNORE them. No attention whore can stand to be ignored. If you don't acknowledge the posts it's like he/she/they don't exist. It's really fun. Give it a try? It always gets the discussion off topic and everyone is just sniping. I know y'all are better than that. Cheers!
54
LC,
Just answer this one question for me and I could very easily change my mind about you. Just one question. Answer this honestly and you will NEVER see another negative post directed at you by me.
If you are so honest, open, forthcoming, caring, righteous and god loving, facts which you have repeatedly stated in your posts, then why do you have your activity "HIDDEN" on your profile page on Slog?
It's a fair question so please answer. Why? And please don't try to insult my intelligence with an B.S. answer like you didn't know there was a choice. Why?
Why not let all of us here every day and any newcomer who cares to join in the thread see what articles you have posted to in the past and what your comments were? Why not be judged for who you really are? Why not let people go back and look at your earlier posts and decide for themselves how open and honest and caring you really are?
I anxiously await your response.
Just answer this one question for me and I could very easily change my mind about you. Just one question. Answer this honestly and you will NEVER see another negative post directed at you by me.
If you are so honest, open, forthcoming, caring, righteous and god loving, facts which you have repeatedly stated in your posts, then why do you have your activity "HIDDEN" on your profile page on Slog?
It's a fair question so please answer. Why? And please don't try to insult my intelligence with an B.S. answer like you didn't know there was a choice. Why?
Why not let all of us here every day and any newcomer who cares to join in the thread see what articles you have posted to in the past and what your comments were? Why not be judged for who you really are? Why not let people go back and look at your earlier posts and decide for themselves how open and honest and caring you really are?
I anxiously await your response.
55
47@ Once Kim, only once, and never since has he posted any other story where the perpetrators are gay. Because the thruth is that the plight of the minors are not really matters to him. Your heart goes out to the mother, that's nice and all but how about taking it a little further then that ? Demanding that the courts focus more energy and resources in cases like this one to stop this sort of tragic endings.
56
@34: Oh, you poor stupid cuntwhorebitch. Pedophilia is not intrinsic to human nature; rather, it is a mental illness. This means that it is due to abnormal neurochemistry in some parts of the brain or abnormal brain activity in certain areas. Nobody inflicts pedophilia upon themselves, and people who feel a sexual attraction to small children are victims of highly unfortunate chance. Those commendable few who restrain their urges should be felt sorry for, not demonized; only those who actually prey on children should be considered bad people.
Satisfied, Loveschild? Begone. This is not for your brains.
Satisfied, Loveschild? Begone. This is not for your brains.
57
@38 - wait, you are criticizing Dan for doing the exact same thing you are doing, yet you feel what you are doing is fine because Dan is doing it. Am I getting that right?
And you claim to be a Christian, huh?
And you claim to be a Christian, huh?
58
@ 47, Wow! LC once, only once? You have looked through every single thing the man has ever written? Every single solitary thing? You are claiming that you left no stone unturned? Yes?
I suggest you get a life. If your spending your every waking minute checking up on everything Dan Savage then you sound like a crappy, un-involved parent, and a crappy, un-involved spouse. And, teh gays will not have destroyed your family you will have because you spent all your time frothing at the mouth, like a rabid dog, obsessing over Savage and denying others civil equality.
I suggest you get therapy, too. This kind of obsession over another person is unhealthy.
The women I help are women in DV situations. So, I already am doing something. When was the last time you helped a woman to move to safe location, or went to court with her? I've done it recently. I do those things.
I have had it with you. Get off your arrogant, conceited, high horse and stop telling me what to do. Am I clear?
I suggest you get a life. If your spending your every waking minute checking up on everything Dan Savage then you sound like a crappy, un-involved parent, and a crappy, un-involved spouse. And, teh gays will not have destroyed your family you will have because you spent all your time frothing at the mouth, like a rabid dog, obsessing over Savage and denying others civil equality.
I suggest you get therapy, too. This kind of obsession over another person is unhealthy.
The women I help are women in DV situations. So, I already am doing something. When was the last time you helped a woman to move to safe location, or went to court with her? I've done it recently. I do those things.
I have had it with you. Get off your arrogant, conceited, high horse and stop telling me what to do. Am I clear?
59
Linda with a y @ 54,
It is my theory that some people hide their comments because they are embarrassed or ashamed of what they write. Perhaps, they often change their story. But, comments can't truly be hidden, Google can find them, you can access your own comments which links you to theirs, you can access them through the author archives as well. There is search button at the top which you can use key words to narrow your search. Hiding your activity may buy you a moment, but it can't hide it forever.
And, when you become sick and tired, you can use Wingman7's program and make even a registered commenter vanish. Not my style, but the option is available to you, and their are a number of individuals who use it.
My present choice of action is to listen to this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P75tYTk6o… I have developed a love for Australia's Bob Dylan. Heads up some of the photographs by Lee Friedlander the song is set against would probably be viewed as NSFW.
It is my theory that some people hide their comments because they are embarrassed or ashamed of what they write. Perhaps, they often change their story. But, comments can't truly be hidden, Google can find them, you can access your own comments which links you to theirs, you can access them through the author archives as well. There is search button at the top which you can use key words to narrow your search. Hiding your activity may buy you a moment, but it can't hide it forever.
And, when you become sick and tired, you can use Wingman7's program and make even a registered commenter vanish. Not my style, but the option is available to you, and their are a number of individuals who use it.
My present choice of action is to listen to this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P75tYTk6o… I have developed a love for Australia's Bob Dylan. Heads up some of the photographs by Lee Friedlander the song is set against would probably be viewed as NSFW.
61
@47 Kim, a quick thank you for your thoughtful, well-researched and compassionate posts. I always look forward to what you will say. You're a welcome counterbalance to the constant blather & hate from Loveschild.
62
And, because I'm really steamed at you, Loveschild @ 55,
When is the last time you helped at a funeral and grieved with the family, because the court provided protection DID NOT work and he shot her at point blank range in the face? I have done that, too.
I am doing something. What are you doing besides typing endlessly on a blog and judging other people?
Don't you ever think that you know me and therefore can tell me what to do again!
When is the last time you helped at a funeral and grieved with the family, because the court provided protection DID NOT work and he shot her at point blank range in the face? I have done that, too.
I am doing something. What are you doing besides typing endlessly on a blog and judging other people?
Don't you ever think that you know me and therefore can tell me what to do again!
64
Kim,
Thank you for the response and I do so love the moniker Lost Cause.
I purposely asked a question that I knew she would never answer or explain. Her continued bigotry and hate (all the while pretending to be holier than thou) is disgusting and I wanted to call her out on it. Her past has caught up with her and I guess when deception is your only ally you'll work harder to try to keep up the facade as long as possible.
Although I knew where the comments could be found and that I could sweep her away with one click, she has made me not care enough about her to bother. Perception is truth until disproven and she had all of the power to try to change that perspective and didn't. I do believe I have already read enough garbage from her to know all I will ever need to.
I'm off to listen to the song you linked for me. Have a great night.
Thank you for the response and I do so love the moniker Lost Cause.
I purposely asked a question that I knew she would never answer or explain. Her continued bigotry and hate (all the while pretending to be holier than thou) is disgusting and I wanted to call her out on it. Her past has caught up with her and I guess when deception is your only ally you'll work harder to try to keep up the facade as long as possible.
Although I knew where the comments could be found and that I could sweep her away with one click, she has made me not care enough about her to bother. Perception is truth until disproven and she had all of the power to try to change that perspective and didn't. I do believe I have already read enough garbage from her to know all I will ever need to.
I'm off to listen to the song you linked for me. Have a great night.
65
Demanding that the courts focus more energy and resources in cases like this one to stop this sort of tragic endings.
That's nice, Loveschild. Keep exploiting this tragedy to push your own agenda. I see you've given up trying to refute those of us who've pointed out that that's exactly what you're doing, and that you were lying when you claimed you weren't, because you know it's true.
What you're saying is, simply, that if the Perry v. Schwarzanegger case hadn't been in the courts this man and his son would still be alive.
Do you realize how insane that is, that the connection is so tangential that it's nonexistent? I know you don't respond to questions you can't answer--which is most of them--but, really, can you come up with a serious explanation for how the two cases are connected? So far all you've done is repeat the same lie over and over again.
66
Here's an idea... how about ignoring the cuntwhorebitch (as venom has kindly nicknamed) and just brush off everything said as idiotic, ridiculous, troll bait. S/he feeds off this shit.
If you guys are expecting to change his/her mind... that's not happening. There should be a raiting system for these comments that way we can just block/hide the really stupid ones as spam so other people checking comments don't have to read them.
If you guys are expecting to change his/her mind... that's not happening. There should be a raiting system for these comments that way we can just block/hide the really stupid ones as spam so other people checking comments don't have to read them.
67
I know I'm just feeding the troll, and I know it's probably futile, but I've been trying to engage Loveschild in an honest debate. The reason is my position is based on facts, but I'm willing to admit that maybe I haven't seen all the facts. Maybe Loveschild knows something I don't, something that would make me rethink my position. So far Loveschild hasn't provided anything but lies and distortions, but, hey, maybe I'll be taken by surprise one of these days.
Maybe I'll never change Loveschild's mind, but that doesn't mean I'm going to just ignore that kind of stupidity and spite. I'll keep acting as though Loveschild is a reasonable, intelligent person, despite the evidence to the contrary. She'll probably never abandon her prejudices, but I'll never give up trying to overcome them.
Maybe I'll never change Loveschild's mind, but that doesn't mean I'm going to just ignore that kind of stupidity and spite. I'll keep acting as though Loveschild is a reasonable, intelligent person, despite the evidence to the contrary. She'll probably never abandon her prejudices, but I'll never give up trying to overcome them.
68
@64: Sorry I didn't see your question @54 yesterday, the answer is the person you're addresing at 64. I don't pretend any perfection because only God is perfect, I just present what's written in the Scriptures and Kim denies and distorts what it is said on them. That's why when I state what's written in the Bible I quote the passages and verses and Kim will belittle them and go off on ideological researches and not what's written in the Bible. I'm sorry that you have already made up your mind about me, but I understand it is based on your own personal biases.
At first when I commented on Slog I wanted to know the reasoning behind some of the things that were being defended here by most, my first exchanges were with Kim and at first she was very courteous (as was I to her) and we had honest interactions thru this forum but when she could not back up with facts or thru the Bible certain things she was saying she started changing and the distortions become more obvious. I myself have apologized to her for certain things that were not the best, she however has never recognized when she has err and instead has commented that she "forgives" me for things that she believes I need to apologize to her. So who do you think is the arrogant one? She can claim to be what she wants but if she's goin to state things that are not true then I'm goin to state the corrections and back them up with the sources especially when the Word of God in referenced to. Not out of arrogance or believing that I'm better than anyone here because I'm just like all here, but out of care for the truth in spiritual uplifting.
69
Loveschild,
You protest too much.
It is not my fault that others see you for who you are.
If you are so proud of your 100% accurate take on the Bible then why hide it? If you are so morally correct than why hide it? Your comments should be out there for everyone to see how wonderful and accurate you are so everyone here can benefit from your omniscience!
You hide it because your scared, because your ashamed, and because too many of the registered SLOGgers have called you on your lies and hypocrisy with your own comments.
And, yes, I forgive you for blaming me because others don't like who you are. And, no I don't want any apology. You utter empty words.
Leave me alone.
You protest too much.
It is not my fault that others see you for who you are.
If you are so proud of your 100% accurate take on the Bible then why hide it? If you are so morally correct than why hide it? Your comments should be out there for everyone to see how wonderful and accurate you are so everyone here can benefit from your omniscience!
You hide it because your scared, because your ashamed, and because too many of the registered SLOGgers have called you on your lies and hypocrisy with your own comments.
And, yes, I forgive you for blaming me because others don't like who you are. And, no I don't want any apology. You utter empty words.
Leave me alone.
70
@44: I meant more the sentiment rather than the case. But yeah, horrible negligence and oversight. I hope that judge is prosecuted in some way - I don't know if there's any way that can happen, though. -Sarah
71
LC,
A history lesson, 15 Feb. 2009: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
Post 213, Your opening statement:
"The American people time and time again have spoken when given a chance through the democratic process. They have rejected the wishes of gays to destroy the family by cheapening it with their mock weddings. Government cannot sanction two people of the same gender wanting to play house.
Posted by Loveschild on February 15, 2009 at 2:35 PM"
Post 219, Your first insulting comment to me:
"So, diminishing the population like in Western Europe where gays have been allowed to play house legally is strengthening the family?
Why don't we just skip granting gays the right to play house and just hand over our sovereignty to Mexico...better yet to Al-Qaeda. Because if we go through with this childish experimentation there will be no more native born U.S citizens to defend the nation in the future. You're advocating for the termination of the Union. Way to go, patriot!
Posted by Loveschild on February 15, 2009 at 4:12 PM "
Post 275, You're against Christians involvement:
"271: I agree with your last paragraph, the blame game needs to stop.
I also find that zealotry from both homosexuals and Christians don't allow for a reasonable conclusion on this subject. I find that once this two groups are kept out of the constructive decision making the people in the middle as it has occurred many times before will always end up making the best pragmatist decision on this subject.
Posted by Loveschild on February 16, 2009 at 1:36 PM "
Post 289, You admit you are not that religious:
"The video from silencingchristians, the scenes from Folsom street. If there ever was one Sodom and Gomorrah in modern times then that's it.
I respect your conscience being before God. But Jesus also said that give to Cesar what's Cesar's. While I hope that you end in the good graces of God, I know that a Lindsay Lohan and a Samantha Ronson are destructive for what our God intended for his creation. I'm not that religious but I know that society will not be able to stand all the ills recognizing those unions equally with that of heterosexual couples like yours and mine will bring to our children and to an already fragile society at large.
Posted by Loveschild on February 16, 2009 at 9:37 PM "
So, here you are not exactly a year later.
Your comments don't indicate a desire to understand any other persons opinion, but your own. The indicate that your mind was already made up, your comments numerous and derogatory.
Your comments show you were insulting people from your first day here.
Your comments indicate that you lacked your present devoutness a year ago. You really think that one year qualifies you to be SLOG's Canon Theologian? Real Canon Theologians have doctorates, they have decades of study and experience of the Scriptures. And there are many real theologians who don't share your corrections and debunk your sources as to the Word of God. To name but a few: Marcus Borg, John Dominic Crossan, Mel White. All Christians educated at real Christian seminaries with decades, and decades, and decades of study.
More...
A history lesson, 15 Feb. 2009: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
Post 213, Your opening statement:
"The American people time and time again have spoken when given a chance through the democratic process. They have rejected the wishes of gays to destroy the family by cheapening it with their mock weddings. Government cannot sanction two people of the same gender wanting to play house.
Posted by Loveschild on February 15, 2009 at 2:35 PM"
Post 219, Your first insulting comment to me:
"So, diminishing the population like in Western Europe where gays have been allowed to play house legally is strengthening the family?
Why don't we just skip granting gays the right to play house and just hand over our sovereignty to Mexico...better yet to Al-Qaeda. Because if we go through with this childish experimentation there will be no more native born U.S citizens to defend the nation in the future. You're advocating for the termination of the Union. Way to go, patriot!
Posted by Loveschild on February 15, 2009 at 4:12 PM "
Post 275, You're against Christians involvement:
"271: I agree with your last paragraph, the blame game needs to stop.
I also find that zealotry from both homosexuals and Christians don't allow for a reasonable conclusion on this subject. I find that once this two groups are kept out of the constructive decision making the people in the middle as it has occurred many times before will always end up making the best pragmatist decision on this subject.
Posted by Loveschild on February 16, 2009 at 1:36 PM "
Post 289, You admit you are not that religious:
"The video from silencingchristians, the scenes from Folsom street. If there ever was one Sodom and Gomorrah in modern times then that's it.
I respect your conscience being before God. But Jesus also said that give to Cesar what's Cesar's. While I hope that you end in the good graces of God, I know that a Lindsay Lohan and a Samantha Ronson are destructive for what our God intended for his creation. I'm not that religious but I know that society will not be able to stand all the ills recognizing those unions equally with that of heterosexual couples like yours and mine will bring to our children and to an already fragile society at large.
Posted by Loveschild on February 16, 2009 at 9:37 PM "
So, here you are not exactly a year later.
Your comments don't indicate a desire to understand any other persons opinion, but your own. The indicate that your mind was already made up, your comments numerous and derogatory.
Your comments show you were insulting people from your first day here.
Your comments indicate that you lacked your present devoutness a year ago. You really think that one year qualifies you to be SLOG's Canon Theologian? Real Canon Theologians have doctorates, they have decades of study and experience of the Scriptures. And there are many real theologians who don't share your corrections and debunk your sources as to the Word of God. To name but a few: Marcus Borg, John Dominic Crossan, Mel White. All Christians educated at real Christian seminaries with decades, and decades, and decades of study.
72
This story is just so heartbreaking. Maybe we all could take a moment to think about and pray for the woman who lost her son to her deranged ex. Let's hope she has the strength to deal with this tragedy. I'm not sure I could.
73
@66: Thank you. I must disavow any ownership of the term, however, since it was a neighbor of mine in my dorm who invented it. And I don't mean to nitpick, but it gets me a little steamed when people abbreviate.
@68: Isn't it insulting to The Big Guy when you're spreading "the Word of God" and you misspell it?
@68: Isn't it insulting to The Big Guy when you're spreading "the Word of God" and you misspell it?
74
@73
That's sad, venom.
Why did your neighbor call you a CuntWhoreBitch?
People can be so mean.
Hang in there, venom.
That's sad, venom.
Why did your neighbor call you a CuntWhoreBitch?
People can be so mean.
Hang in there, venom.
75
@68, Loveschild,
How the fuck does this quote of yours justify your hiding your activity?
"At first when I commented on Slog I wanted to know the reasoning behind some of the things that were being defended here by most, my first exchanges were with Kim and at first she was very courteous (as was I to her) and we had honest interactions thru this forum but when she could not back up with facts or thru the Bible certain things she was saying she started changing and the distortions become more obvious. I myself have apologized to her for certain things that were not the best, she however has never recognized when she has err and instead has commented that she "forgives" me for things that she believes I need to apologize to her. So who do you think is the arrogant one?"
You did not answer the question. What are you a coward or are the other comments correct about you that you are a liar, a bigot, and a hypocrite?
The answer to your question, "So who do you think is the arrogant one?" Is you. Why can't you leave people the fuck alone.
How the fuck does this quote of yours justify your hiding your activity?
"At first when I commented on Slog I wanted to know the reasoning behind some of the things that were being defended here by most, my first exchanges were with Kim and at first she was very courteous (as was I to her) and we had honest interactions thru this forum but when she could not back up with facts or thru the Bible certain things she was saying she started changing and the distortions become more obvious. I myself have apologized to her for certain things that were not the best, she however has never recognized when she has err and instead has commented that she "forgives" me for things that she believes I need to apologize to her. So who do you think is the arrogant one?"
You did not answer the question. What are you a coward or are the other comments correct about you that you are a liar, a bigot, and a hypocrite?
The answer to your question, "So who do you think is the arrogant one?" Is you. Why can't you leave people the fuck alone.
76
I'll also add that blaming innocent people, the Prop 8 trial and Kim in Portland, for the unfortunate death of this child is sub-Christ and very monstrous of you. Are you always this vile and obscene?
77
@ 75-
i agree. I follow their debates with great interest, and Kim always replied with strong argumentation, Biblical and scientific, if required, and goes above and beyond to provide even more then what's asked of her.
There been a lot of questions that many people here been trying to get LC answer, but she never does. For small example:
-How does potential lift on gay marriage ban threatens hers, or other hetero marriages?
-What would she do if one of her kids came out as gay?
-( my personal peeve) Legalizing of gay marriage will unevitably cause more couples to adopt kids. Why does she want to deny those children a chance to grow up in a loving family?
no answer from LC.
i agree. I follow their debates with great interest, and Kim always replied with strong argumentation, Biblical and scientific, if required, and goes above and beyond to provide even more then what's asked of her.
There been a lot of questions that many people here been trying to get LC answer, but she never does. For small example:
-How does potential lift on gay marriage ban threatens hers, or other hetero marriages?
-What would she do if one of her kids came out as gay?
-( my personal peeve) Legalizing of gay marriage will unevitably cause more couples to adopt kids. Why does she want to deny those children a chance to grow up in a loving family?
no answer from LC.
78
@17--Loveschild, as a fellow Christian, I'm baffled that your heart WOULDN'T go out to the people that Dan refers to in his last column as "good pedophiles." Isn't it the very essence of Christlike behavior and thought to have empathy for those who wage a daily struggle against their worse nature, who never have a day's relief from this terrible knowledge about themselves, who by necessity must always deny themselves in order to protect the safety and health of others, and who manage to do so successfully with (as he points out in his column) no social support networks? What a dreadful burden that must be--aren't we as Christians meant to extend our hearts to those who deal with such awful burdens? Why would you come down on Dan for showing EXACTLY the sort of response you should be espousing?
79
Thank you Dan for once again for making the point that a child is better off with a healthy gay couple than a dysfunctional straight one. Any straight person can get married, no matter how messed up, and there is no organized movement to stop mentally incompetent straight people from getting married. Even Ted Bundy was allowed to get married and have a child, but my friends who have been together for 16 years, why no, if they get married then “traditional marriage”, like the one that Ted Bundy had, is in peril, along with all the worlds children.
80
This post may be a little late but with a major server upgrade on the 4th and spending the day in the E.R. with Vertigo on the 5th I didn't realize until now that my question was responded to.
LC, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??????????????????????????????
I ask you a question about personal choices YOU made and your answer is...
IT'S ALL KIM'S FAULT...SHE DID IT, NOT ME...SHE BELITTLES ME....SHE DISTORTS WHAT I'VE SAID...SHE ONLY WANTS TO ADVANCE HER OWN AGENDA...SHE CAN NEVER BACK UP HER IDEAOLOGICAL RESEARCHES WITH FACTS...
I TRIED TO BE FRIENDS...SHE USED TO BE COURTEOUS TO ME BUT SHE'S NOT ANYMORE...SHE NEEDS TO APOLOGIZE TO ME...AND YOU, YOU'VE ALREADY MADE UP YOUR MIND TOO...YOU ARE PREJUDICED AND BIASED AGAINST ME...JUST LIKE SAVAGE AND KIM AND EVERYONE ELSE HERE...
I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG...I ONLY WANT HONEST INTERACTIONS THRU THIS FORUM...I QUOTE WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE...I QUOTE PASSAGES AND VERSE...FROM THE BIBLE...THE B_I_B_L_E_...THE WORD OF GOD...YOU JUST WON'T LISTEN...
YOU MAY THINK I'M NOT ANY BETTER THAN ANYONE HERE...BUT I AM THE ONLY ONE WHO WANTS THE TRUTH...I ONLY DO IT OUT OF CARE FOR THE TRUTH IN SPIRITUAL UPLIFTING...
So, thinking, acting and feeling for yourself is OPTIONAL? Taking personal responsibility for your actions is OPTIONAL? Because you are a believer, accountability is OPTIONAL?
Since God told you to sign up on SLOG and God told you to hide your comments and God forgives you of your sins, we should to?
That's life in the "NO FAULT" world YOU live in LC. You are legend in your own mind!
LC, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??????????????????????????????
I ask you a question about personal choices YOU made and your answer is...
IT'S ALL KIM'S FAULT...SHE DID IT, NOT ME...SHE BELITTLES ME....SHE DISTORTS WHAT I'VE SAID...SHE ONLY WANTS TO ADVANCE HER OWN AGENDA...SHE CAN NEVER BACK UP HER IDEAOLOGICAL RESEARCHES WITH FACTS...
I TRIED TO BE FRIENDS...SHE USED TO BE COURTEOUS TO ME BUT SHE'S NOT ANYMORE...SHE NEEDS TO APOLOGIZE TO ME...AND YOU, YOU'VE ALREADY MADE UP YOUR MIND TOO...YOU ARE PREJUDICED AND BIASED AGAINST ME...JUST LIKE SAVAGE AND KIM AND EVERYONE ELSE HERE...
I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG...I ONLY WANT HONEST INTERACTIONS THRU THIS FORUM...I QUOTE WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE...I QUOTE PASSAGES AND VERSE...FROM THE BIBLE...THE B_I_B_L_E_...THE WORD OF GOD...YOU JUST WON'T LISTEN...
YOU MAY THINK I'M NOT ANY BETTER THAN ANYONE HERE...BUT I AM THE ONLY ONE WHO WANTS THE TRUTH...I ONLY DO IT OUT OF CARE FOR THE TRUTH IN SPIRITUAL UPLIFTING...
So, thinking, acting and feeling for yourself is OPTIONAL? Taking personal responsibility for your actions is OPTIONAL? Because you are a believer, accountability is OPTIONAL?
Since God told you to sign up on SLOG and God told you to hide your comments and God forgives you of your sins, we should to?
That's life in the "NO FAULT" world YOU live in LC. You are legend in your own mind!
81
@74: You misunderstand: he calls friends of ours "cuntwhorebitch" as a joke. Seeing an actual factual cuntwhorebitch on SLOG, I thought it only fitting to put his term to good use.
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