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News & ArtsTuesday, February 2, 2010
At Large San Francisco Police Chief: "I Get Pounded Regularly on Both Sides"
Posted by Christopher Frizzelle on Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:24 AM
- Critical Mass in Seattle, May 2009. Remember it?
No, he's not talking about what you think he's talking about. He's talking about San Francisco's Critical Mass. "I am not satisfied with Critical Mass," he says. He thinks a measure banning the monthly bike ride is a good idea.
(Thanks for the tip, Nick.)
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Regardless of whether Critical Mass is good or bad, I predict that the Chief's efforts will be futile.
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*sigh* there's really nothing I can say about this issue that hasn't been said a thousand times before... not that it could sway anyone's opinion anyway.
But hey, at least you get your page views!
But hey, at least you get your page views!
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Anyone want to wager on how many comments this post will generate? I'm gonna say 102 in twenty-four hours.
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I agree, San Fran should ban monthly bike rides.
And make using cars on city streets only once a month.
Problem solved.
And make using cars on city streets only once a month.
Problem solved.
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on one hand i'd be happy to see your stupid bike ride banned
on the other it's less chances for a bus to plow through it and kill as many CM participants as possible
on the other it's less chances for a bus to plow through it and kill as many CM participants as possible
9
Wait- is that a child bike trailer in the attached pic?? Do what you will in the name of activism, but putting your kids in harms way to prove a point about bike rights is just fucking irresponsible.
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That's a low-ball number, Hernandez.
That said, I say we make 'em really "run the gauntlet." Put snipers in the windows of those buildings. Moving targets are hard to hit, right?
That said, I say we make 'em really "run the gauntlet." Put snipers in the windows of those buildings. Moving targets are hard to hit, right?
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That trailer has a speaker in it.
Sadly, no children were eaten by pitbulls on this ride, but regardless of that Fnarf commented.
Thread complete.
Sadly, no children were eaten by pitbulls on this ride, but regardless of that Fnarf commented.
Thread complete.
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@9 yeah, sure the fact that "harms way" is going for a bike ride is with your kid is the fucking problem.
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@17 ...On the freeway. Riding your bike, with your kids, ON THE FREEWAY.
That aspect is sort of key to my whole argument.
That aspect is sort of key to my whole argument.
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@13 Can someone please explain to me the point of critical mass? To draw attention to cyclists?
It's about a lot of things. Part of which is power. Cars are deadly missiles that control the streets. CM is (in part! not exclusively!) an expression of power displacing cars as the dominant form of transportation, for just a little while.
The car owners are going to get bent out of shape and say they were 'obstructed' and "for what?" But when you live in a society where cars are treated as the only legitimate form of transportation (via road markings, laws, aggressive driving, etc.) it kinda pisses off the bicyclists and peds who are just trying to get by, and they tend to want to band together to do something about it. Like have a rolling party once a month.
In a world of grim obliviousness, critical mass is a pretty joyous people-centered affair.
FWIW, I won't be back to read this thread, so have at me folks! :D
It's about a lot of things. Part of which is power. Cars are deadly missiles that control the streets. CM is (in part! not exclusively!) an expression of power displacing cars as the dominant form of transportation, for just a little while.
The car owners are going to get bent out of shape and say they were 'obstructed' and "for what?" But when you live in a society where cars are treated as the only legitimate form of transportation (via road markings, laws, aggressive driving, etc.) it kinda pisses off the bicyclists and peds who are just trying to get by, and they tend to want to band together to do something about it. Like have a rolling party once a month.
In a world of grim obliviousness, critical mass is a pretty joyous people-centered affair.
FWIW, I won't be back to read this thread, so have at me folks! :D
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Can he get a measure banning cars riding in packs? I'm tired of all the cars riding down the street in the same direction, clogging things up! Plus they are playing stereos, smoking, texting, putting on makeup, drinking, and sometimes even playing with themselves.
If the cops see a bunch of cars going the same direction down a street, they should just assume they are all cycling together, pull them over, and give them tickets. Maybe taser a few of the drivers!
If the cops see a bunch of cars going the same direction down a street, they should just assume they are all cycling together, pull them over, and give them tickets. Maybe taser a few of the drivers!
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Mass effect is a bunch of fixie riding hipsters! Car drivers are thugs! My pit bull was molested by a Blue Angel pilot!
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Actually Critical Mass down in Atlanta is just a happy ride. It is an end of the month celebration. Are we accomplishing anything? Are drivers when they take their cars out just to drive around? It is just a get together to go for a ride, on streets we pay taxes for, and have a good time.
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The part that irritates me is the fact that CM can't be bothered to apply for permits... With permits the streets could still be shut down to raise awareness for cyclists; It would just come with the added benefit of a police presence to enforce road closures to protect cyclists. (And in that case, I would encourage children to participate)
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CM is fucking stupid, and over the top. People who bitch about roads being built and designed with cars as the primary user, guess what - we pay for them. We pay for them with gas taxes, we pay for them with MVET's, we pay for them with special vehicle excise taxes.
Answer me this: when you purchase your new bicycle, do you have to add .3% to the tax to pay for bike lanes? Do you have to have to register and pay a fee every year to pay for your pavement? No. You rely on drivers.
Now, I do believe there should be wider bike lanes, and in areas where there is no street parking, they should be separate. But don't bitch about how you're not pampered enough until you're willing to actually pay the taxes for that pampering.
Answer me this: when you purchase your new bicycle, do you have to add .3% to the tax to pay for bike lanes? Do you have to have to register and pay a fee every year to pay for your pavement? No. You rely on drivers.
Now, I do believe there should be wider bike lanes, and in areas where there is no street parking, they should be separate. But don't bitch about how you're not pampered enough until you're willing to actually pay the taxes for that pampering.
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I'd take the "share the road!" complaints more seriously if bicyclists didn't regularly blow through red lights & stop signs, bob and weave madly through traffic and fly down sidewalks.
It's the driver's fault that some dumbass on a bike gets killed because he flew into an intersection without looking.
But, hey, at the end of the day, their lawbreaking asses are the ones that are going to die, not me. Have at it.
It's the driver's fault that some dumbass on a bike gets killed because he flew into an intersection without looking.
But, hey, at the end of the day, their lawbreaking asses are the ones that are going to die, not me. Have at it.
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@26 most surface streets come from property tax and sales tax. Only about a third of the cost of roads is paid for by gas and car taxes. Tim Eyeman's $30 tab initiative took away your right to use the 'it's my football so I make the rules' argument on this.
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My problem with Critical Mass mainly stems with their attitude that they somehow represent a protest movement. They suck as a protest movement. I ride my bike daily on Seattle's streets (and Bellevue's and Kirkland's, I think I'm on the path all the way through Lake Forest Park...) and I want to put my boot up their ass. Making car drivers angrier is not making my life better, and your stupid self-indulgent behavior is swaying moderates AWAY from the bicyclists side.
You can't ban people from riding their bikes, so the San Fran Police Chief isn't gonna get his wish.
I'd say around 80 comments. But maybe we can suck Loveschild in with a gay angle somehow and make it over 100. The headline should at least have her reading the thread.
You can't ban people from riding their bikes, so the San Fran Police Chief isn't gonna get his wish.
I'd say around 80 comments. But maybe we can suck Loveschild in with a gay angle somehow and make it over 100. The headline should at least have her reading the thread.
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"People who bitch about roads being built and designed with cars as the primary user, guess what - we pay for them."
Bzzzzt! Only 30% of road construction and maintenance funds come from user fees. So no, you do not pay for them. Everybody pays for them.
I'd take the "get off the road!" complaints more seriously if drivers didn't regularly blow through red lights & stop signs, bob and weave madly through traffic and have fits of rage all the time.
Bzzzzt! Only 30% of road construction and maintenance funds come from user fees. So no, you do not pay for them. Everybody pays for them.
I'd take the "get off the road!" complaints more seriously if drivers didn't regularly blow through red lights & stop signs, bob and weave madly through traffic and have fits of rage all the time.
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Bicycles; Share the road, share the rules! (and I dare you to take that bumpersticker off of my car)
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@33 -
30% is more than 0%. Property owners, I would venture a guess, are more likely to own cars than to be without any cars they pay for. And sales tax revenue - a large portion comes from folks who drive in to the city, people who park in the city, and, again, I would venture a guess folks who consume more items and more expensive items own cars (if not only based on what many of the CM cyclists wear).
30% is more than 0%. Property owners, I would venture a guess, are more likely to own cars than to be without any cars they pay for. And sales tax revenue - a large portion comes from folks who drive in to the city, people who park in the city, and, again, I would venture a guess folks who consume more items and more expensive items own cars (if not only based on what many of the CM cyclists wear).
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Willie Brown cracked down on CM and it was a clusterfuck—an aggressive police presence can turn an obnoxious crowd into an angry mob, and it did. I don't think any mayor wants the local news airing footage of cops beating down people on bicycles once a month, it makes him or her look like they've lost control of the city.
Then again, it was a very different climate two terms ago—the number of causal bicyclists and bicycle commuters has grown, but bike messengers are a dying breed now, and the vibe I sense in CM seems more Burning Man than "take back the streets!" And to this end, it may just fall out of fashion sooner than later, and that is the only way it's going away.
Then again, it was a very different climate two terms ago—the number of causal bicyclists and bicycle commuters has grown, but bike messengers are a dying breed now, and the vibe I sense in CM seems more Burning Man than "take back the streets!" And to this end, it may just fall out of fashion sooner than later, and that is the only way it's going away.
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@36 - I own a car. I pay property tax - a lot, actually.
But a lot of the people who own cars also own bikes.
False dichotomy. Even renters with no cars pay - indirectly - property taxes.
But a lot of the people who own cars also own bikes.
False dichotomy. Even renters with no cars pay - indirectly - property taxes.
40
Don't ban it, just enforce existing laws. If they run lights, ride three abreast, block intersections, etc, pull them over and give them tickets. Repeatedly.
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I'm surprised that no one has pointed this out, but it seems pretty obvious:
Critical Mass Riders = Teabaggers.
It starts with people who feel that their voices are not being heard by people who matter (bicyclists not getting respect or voters disenchanted by democratic outcomes). The feeling of voicelessness coalesces into an individual anger, but it's not clear where to direct that anger. The anger finds comfort in collectivization of like-minded individuals who have equal difficulty in defining and expressing that anger.
That collectivization is not based on finding solutions, but on allowing the participants to feel like their voice is being heard. There really is no "point," because any attempt at defining a goal suffers from factionalization, which hinders the original purpose of coming together to express anger.
Additionally, the collective action allows each individual the freedom to enjoy the group dynamic of it (even some who think it's "fun") because they believe that their anger is adequately being expressed by "the group."
In other words: riding in critical mass is as effective at changing policy and gaining wide acceptance of one's goals as teabagging.
Critical Mass Riders = Teabaggers.
It starts with people who feel that their voices are not being heard by people who matter (bicyclists not getting respect or voters disenchanted by democratic outcomes). The feeling of voicelessness coalesces into an individual anger, but it's not clear where to direct that anger. The anger finds comfort in collectivization of like-minded individuals who have equal difficulty in defining and expressing that anger.
That collectivization is not based on finding solutions, but on allowing the participants to feel like their voice is being heard. There really is no "point," because any attempt at defining a goal suffers from factionalization, which hinders the original purpose of coming together to express anger.
Additionally, the collective action allows each individual the freedom to enjoy the group dynamic of it (even some who think it's "fun") because they believe that their anger is adequately being expressed by "the group."
In other words: riding in critical mass is as effective at changing policy and gaining wide acceptance of one's goals as teabagging.
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Glad I submitted this.
Instead of rehashing the "CM is good/bad" argument, why not focus on the narrow question here?
If this DID make it to a ballot, how do you think it would turn out? And, once Critical Mass was banned, would the participants
a) take Unpaid Commenter's suggestion and apply for permits, thus making a legal statement of their desire for equal rights on the road?
b) just keep doing it and make themselves out to be martyrs when the ban is enforced by the police?
And, for what it's worth, I fully plan on voting to ban CM if it ever hits a ballot here in SF.
Instead of rehashing the "CM is good/bad" argument, why not focus on the narrow question here?
If this DID make it to a ballot, how do you think it would turn out? And, once Critical Mass was banned, would the participants
a) take Unpaid Commenter's suggestion and apply for permits, thus making a legal statement of their desire for equal rights on the road?
b) just keep doing it and make themselves out to be martyrs when the ban is enforced by the police?
And, for what it's worth, I fully plan on voting to ban CM if it ever hits a ballot here in SF.
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I don't know what your CM is like in Seattle, but in SF, they're out of control, obnoxious assholes. I've said for years, I'll vote for any politician that promises to turn dogs and firehoses on them, and I mean it. I've lived in SF long enough now to rework my last Friday to minimize contact with them, but they periodically decide to try something particularly stupid to screw up traffic (and that's the only reason--there's no higher message; they're just creating as much chaos as possible because they can).
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Didn't you know, CM'ers are the Rosa Parks of our time...except they are 95% college-educated white kids.
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Critical Mass makes drivers hate bikers.
Critical Mass makes bus riders hate bikers.
Critical Mass is bad for bikers.
Critical Mass makes bus riders hate bikers.
Critical Mass is bad for bikers.
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Bicycles have a negligible impact on infrastructure, but cyclists pay for roads and road maintenance.
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I have to sso agree with the ban on CM. It does nothing but give cyclist the opportunity to be assholes (which most of the are when it comes to bike vs. car or bus) and it accomplishes nothing.
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I hate bikers because of critical mass.
I hate them running red lights and blocking intersections for fun.
I hate them riding over the west seattle bridge.
I hate them riding on the viaduct.
I hate them running red lights and blocking intersections for fun.
I hate them riding over the west seattle bridge.
I hate them riding on the viaduct.
53
One major argument against CM is inconvenience. If drivers in S.F. really cared about being inconvenienced, I say they toll and tax drivers commuting into downtown.
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They tried to ban San Francisco Critical Mass before during Willie Brown's reign. It went so terribly wrong. Good times.
And yes, CM is a protest demonstration, but their position is extremist and they know it, hence there's a robust sense of humor about it as well.
And yes, CM is a protest demonstration, but their position is extremist and they know it, hence there's a robust sense of humor about it as well.
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@55 huh. and here I thought extremists were known for their polarizing dogma and irrationality, not so much for their sense of humor.
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Some extremists are.
I think the rational extremists (that is, folks who have an extreme position, but are rational about their chances of making such a change) tend to keep a sense of humor to prevent themselves from becoming the polarized irrational sort.
In the case of Critical Mass, my understanding of the protest is against our overuse of motor vehicles. Especially in places like San Francisco that are not well arteried for heavy traffic, some of us would like to see greater regulation of what can come into the city or not. But it's not going to happen despite our daily freeway and bridge congestion, because the cars, and the money are in the same hands.
I think the rational extremists (that is, folks who have an extreme position, but are rational about their chances of making such a change) tend to keep a sense of humor to prevent themselves from becoming the polarized irrational sort.
In the case of Critical Mass, my understanding of the protest is against our overuse of motor vehicles. Especially in places like San Francisco that are not well arteried for heavy traffic, some of us would like to see greater regulation of what can come into the city or not. But it's not going to happen despite our daily freeway and bridge congestion, because the cars, and the money are in the same hands.
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