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News & ArtsFriday, January 29, 2010
Crime / Sex Sexting Tweens Arrested in Chicago
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 12:55 PM
The students were caught when the 13-year-old girl's cell phone rang in class, and her teacher confiscated it, according to a police report. The girl cried that she would get in trouble because a 12-year-old boy sent her a "dirty picture."
The girl and the boy are guilty of playing you-show-me-yours-i'll-show-you-mine—a game we all played as children—but with a tech assist. For that they were both arrested and charged with "child exploitation and possession of child pornography," both felonies." Which is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous: both will have to register as sex offenders if insanity prevails and they are tried and convicted for their "crime." Laws against child pornography are supposed to protect children from the trauma of being exploited by adult predators, not from themselves, and certainly not from games of you-show-me-yours-I'll-show-you-mine. These two children may wind up traumatized for life by the overzealous enforcement of laws designed to protect them. And it that wasn't enough to make your head explode, check out this quote:
Louis Kraus [is] head of child and adolescent psychiatry at Rush University Medical Center in Chicago.... Boys sext because they're proud of their new, more mature bodies, while girls sext because a boy asks them to, he said. Girls want to develop the relationship and think sexting will help, Kraus said. But he warns that's no different than a girl who might be pressured into sex before she's ready.
Girls have no naturally occurring interest in sex, girls are never proud of their new, more mature bodies, girls have no sexual agency or desire or urges or impulses of their own. Girls only want relationships and boys—sex-crazed boys!—know it and use it against girls to get pictures of their bodies because there just aren't enough pictures of boobs available to boys with access to the Internet.
Has this Kraus guy ever met an actual teenage girl?
2
WTF? You can never underestimate the stupidity (and insanity) of your average American adult. This and all similar cases are fucking ridiculous and if there was a rational bone in these peoples' bodies they would understand that.
I wish I could remember where I saw this but a few days ago I was watching somethigg about a girl who's naked pictures were leaked to her high school classmates and she was going on and on about how it ruuuiiiined her liiiiife... WAAAH! Sure, it sucks and it's probably embarrassing, but jesus christ. Everyone wants to be a hysterical goddamn victim and its ridiculous. Get the fuck over it.
I wish I could remember where I saw this but a few days ago I was watching somethigg about a girl who's naked pictures were leaked to her high school classmates and she was going on and on about how it ruuuiiiined her liiiiife... WAAAH! Sure, it sucks and it's probably embarrassing, but jesus christ. Everyone wants to be a hysterical goddamn victim and its ridiculous. Get the fuck over it.
3
When I was a nubile high school chick, I e-mailed my boyfriend dirty pictures of myself because I knew it would make his head explode, and I got off on that power. At that age more than any other, guys are total slaves to sexual content, and girls know that and take advantage of it ... for their own sexual gratification. Whee!
5
Same thing going on here: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/82992…
Though, in the local case there was malice involved, but seriously, couldn't they have just gone with a harassment charge or something?
Absolutely ridiculous.
Though, in the local case there was malice involved, but seriously, couldn't they have just gone with a harassment charge or something?
Absolutely ridiculous.
7
It's amazing us dykes ever have sex at all...one of us has to pretend to be a boy, so we can pretend to have a sex drive, so we can pretend to have sex. Such a lot of work!
8
I'm wondering if Kraus ever met an actual teenage boy. Most of them are anything but proud of the changes in their bodies - most teenage boys are so body-shy they'd wear burkhas given half a chance.
14
You know, when I took inappropriate, sexy pictures of myself when I was sixteen -- Polaroids, I wasn't dumb -- it wasn't because I felt pressured by anyone. In fact, I think I was single at the time. I took them because I thought I looked fuckin' hot.
That psychiatrist is a douchenozzel.
That psychiatrist is a douchenozzel.
15
Point of order: is a douche-nozzle worse than a douche-bag? Just wondering about the hierarchy of insults.
16
It's not backwards, Freud-derived, discredited-since-the-60s sexism if it's about minors!
Next up: adult homos get equal rights, underage homos re-listed in the DSM.
Next up: adult homos get equal rights, underage homos re-listed in the DSM.
17
@ 13, the better question is, Why does a 13 year old need a phone with a camera? If you don't see the sense in giving a 13 year old a cell phone, you're probably not a parent.
18
@8: I was going to say the same thing. The guy's talking like boys mature the same way as girls ... but while the vast majority of girls already look like women by the time they're 13, tons of boys just look like overgrown storks. And they know it.
19
@17: Probably because a camera is standard with most phones now and it's just easier to get that instead of asking for one without. I got my cellphone, what, a year ago, one of those free ones with the contract, and even it has a shitty camera.
20
*sighs* This is why I hate people.
I've taken many a "naughty" picture of myself. It had nothing to do with wanting to develop a relationship with anyone... I was bored, horny, and wanted to make my boyfriend equally revved up. I was smart about it (face not in the picture, no actual nudity), but they were most definitely 'sensual' pictures.
If anything, the teens who get caught should be charged with lacking creativity. Lol.
I've taken many a "naughty" picture of myself. It had nothing to do with wanting to develop a relationship with anyone... I was bored, horny, and wanted to make my boyfriend equally revved up. I was smart about it (face not in the picture, no actual nudity), but they were most definitely 'sensual' pictures.
If anything, the teens who get caught should be charged with lacking creativity. Lol.
21
I'm not sure why Dan and so many commenters are so offended by what this doctor says. I think it needs to be put in perspective. He's not drawing conclusions about all teens in general -- that's just how most people here are interpreting him. He's only talking about kids who sext, based on good old empirical evidence. Remember, that thing we all respect so much?
Here's what he says in another article: "Boys do it for exhibition, girls do it in response or request from a boy. That's what I've seen repeatedly".
That's it. He's not denying girls their sexual agency, or implying that all boys are proud of their new bodies. He's just reporting what he's observed. I don't see anything sexist about this.
Here's what he says in another article: "Boys do it for exhibition, girls do it in response or request from a boy. That's what I've seen repeatedly".
That's it. He's not denying girls their sexual agency, or implying that all boys are proud of their new bodies. He's just reporting what he's observed. I don't see anything sexist about this.
22
@ 19, I don't know what plans you're looking at, but the ones I've seen still offer plenty of free phones, and I haven't seen one with a camera yet. You have to pay for those still. So, I don't know how that can be so hard...
23
@ 21
That may be true... however, I would consider it somewhat irresponsible to take the word of the teens he's observed regarding their motives at face value.
Girls, particularly teenage girls, are inundated with messages that tell them that they are not supposed to have sexual desires... If only "bad girls" and "sluts" could possibly have a sexual motive of their own, of COURSE they're going to feel pressured to blame something perceived as 'normal'- desire for a relationship, peer pressure, insecurity.
I'm not saying that those don't sometimes play a role, but it's naive (and, yes, sexist) to assume that this is always, or even often, the case.
That may be true... however, I would consider it somewhat irresponsible to take the word of the teens he's observed regarding their motives at face value.
Girls, particularly teenage girls, are inundated with messages that tell them that they are not supposed to have sexual desires... If only "bad girls" and "sluts" could possibly have a sexual motive of their own, of COURSE they're going to feel pressured to blame something perceived as 'normal'- desire for a relationship, peer pressure, insecurity.
I'm not saying that those don't sometimes play a role, but it's naive (and, yes, sexist) to assume that this is always, or even often, the case.
24
@23: Word. I'm a big believer in the scientific method, and I'll believe a lot if it can be backed up with hard data. But this Kraus guy stirs up my feminist rage.
As for the rest: aren't child pornography laws about protecting children? Yeah, these two kids are being "protected" so hard that they're going to end up with a criminal record and psychological trauma for the rest of their lives.
As for the rest: aren't child pornography laws about protecting children? Yeah, these two kids are being "protected" so hard that they're going to end up with a criminal record and psychological trauma for the rest of their lives.
25
Irena, "what I've seen repeatedly" does not add up to "empirical evidence." There's an old saying in science: the plural of "anecdote" is not "data."
26
Psychiatrists who say nice things about homosexuals are brilliant and insightful (see APA...)
Psychiatrists who draw conclusions we disagree with are ignorant and bigoted.
Psychiatrists, please make a note of it...
Psychiatrists who draw conclusions we disagree with are ignorant and bigoted.
Psychiatrists, please make a note of it...
27
Glad to see Science has been freed from ideology and trained professional are free to express their findings without censure, recrimination or repercussions...
29
26 and 27
Look, it's not some widely accepted psychological conclusions that we're arguing. It's not even "opinion", it's simply that the conclusions that psychiatrist seems to have reached are obviously flawed to anyone who cares to look closely at it.
Look, it's not some widely accepted psychological conclusions that we're arguing. It's not even "opinion", it's simply that the conclusions that psychiatrist seems to have reached are obviously flawed to anyone who cares to look closely at it.
30
8 out of 10 degenerates agree-
heads of child and adolescent psychiatry at prominent urban University Medical Centers don't know nuthin!!!
heads of child and adolescent psychiatry at prominent urban University Medical Centers don't know nuthin!!!
31
Laws against child pornography are supposed to protect children from the trauma of being exploited by anyone.
33
Singing Cynic @ 14,
Well I took some of myself just last week, because I wanted an art project and something to sketch. The human body is a beautiful thing.
I'm not saying that I'm hot, though. Just wanted a subject.
Well I took some of myself just last week, because I wanted an art project and something to sketch. The human body is a beautiful thing.
I'm not saying that I'm hot, though. Just wanted a subject.
36
Thank you for the laugh, it isn't going to happen. NSFW or SLOGgers. Thank you for your interest, though.
37
Furcifer @14: He's the head of child and adolescent psychiatry at Rush University Medical Center. You think he hasn't looked at any data? You think he's just going around chatting with people? Where exactly do you think medical knowledge comes from?
And @23, you dismay me. You're saying these girls can't be trusted to know themselves, and to tell the truth. Bullshit! How do you think people would react if this doctor said, "Well, the girls I've studied say they sext because a boy asks them to, but I think they do it because it turns them on, and they're blaming the boys to avoid admitting this".
Yeah, that would go over real well.
And @24: This guy hasn't stirred up your feminist rage. Dan has stirred up your feminist rage. And I think it's misplaced.
And @23, you dismay me. You're saying these girls can't be trusted to know themselves, and to tell the truth. Bullshit! How do you think people would react if this doctor said, "Well, the girls I've studied say they sext because a boy asks them to, but I think they do it because it turns them on, and they're blaming the boys to avoid admitting this".
Yeah, that would go over real well.
And @24: This guy hasn't stirred up your feminist rage. Dan has stirred up your feminist rage. And I think it's misplaced.
38
The important question is whether guesshermuff will ever run out of photos from hacked Facebook accounts.
39
The thing that kills me about this post is that you all are entirely missing the point. This Kraus guy is trying to call attention to the terrible irony of kids as young as twelve or thirteen being treated as sex offenders when there is a possibility -- he thinks a strong possibility on the part of girls -- that they've been pressured into exchanging nude photos of themselves. He's introducing an argument against these idiotic laws.
And anyone who thinks that a 13-year-old girl isn't susceptible to doing something she doesn't want to do because of peer pressure needs to pull their head out of their ass. To quote the post: Have you ever met an actual teenage girl?
And anyone who thinks that a 13-year-old girl isn't susceptible to doing something she doesn't want to do because of peer pressure needs to pull their head out of their ass. To quote the post: Have you ever met an actual teenage girl?
40
@37 your feminist rage at @23's assertion that TEENAGERS LIE is misplaced. And your absolute faith that a person with medical credentials could not be influenced by sexism is laughable.
41
Ha! I called bullshit on that teen psychiatrist when I read the article. Where do they find these people?
42
@40: Where is this "absolute faith"? More importantly, where is your evidence that this doctor is lying? Because if there were evidence that he was just making this stuff up, I'd be all over him. I'd love to see it. While you're at it, throw in some proof that these teenage girls are lying as well. And convince me why I should take you seriously when the the only argument you've got is that no one involved has any credibility at all.
43
@42 I wasn't arguing with you so much as expressing my general dislike of you. I'm not even sure you have a point that means anything, I think you just like telling "us all" how we're missing the point.
Where is your proof that this doctor is not lying? I'd love to see it.
Where is your proof that you're not just being contrary for the sake of assholery? I'd love to see it.
Where is your proof that this doctor is not lying? I'd love to see it.
Where is your proof that you're not just being contrary for the sake of assholery? I'd love to see it.
45
One other thing: I think it's great that the sexuality of teenage girls is finally being acknowledged, and that people are supportive of their sexual agency. And I also think that this doctor's comments don't necessarily reflect the reality of every teenager's life (a claim he never makes). But if you honestly think that sexism no longer exists among middle- and high school students, you're just wrong. To deny the possibility that girls might cave in to peer pressure from boys, that a girl might send a boy a nude photo in the hopes that it will lead to a relationship, is very naive. And to assume that girls are lying just because what they say doesn't fit with your fantasy -- a fantasy where teen girls can comfortably express their sexuality in an environment free of judgement and fucked-up adolescent social politics -- just seems like willful blindness to me.
46
@43: I could care less if you dislike me. Good Christ. I'm countering a point, because I care about kids and I think it matters. It's not up to me to prove that your allegations are wrong -- if you make the claim, it's your job to prove it.
And I think it's pretty clear who's the asshole trying to be contrary. I have nothing more to say to you.
And I think it's pretty clear who's the asshole trying to be contrary. I have nothing more to say to you.
50
@ 45
I wholeheartedly agree. However, as a teenage girl, (yes, I am aware that this admission will probably make some of discount any opinion I've expressed) my point is simply that the assumption that "peer pressure", etc. is the motivation the majority of the time is erroneous.
Like I said. I'm a teenage girl. I know teenage girls. I'm around them every single day. And so called "peer pressure" is rarely to blame for anything at all.
I do, however, know a hell of a lot of people who refuse to own their desires, whether they be to have sex or anything else. It's multiplied in young girls who are so often TOLD that they are easy to manipulate.
Hell, we have a ready made excuse from the time we're in about fifth grade. Let's not discount the power of that.
I wholeheartedly agree. However, as a teenage girl, (yes, I am aware that this admission will probably make some of discount any opinion I've expressed) my point is simply that the assumption that "peer pressure", etc. is the motivation the majority of the time is erroneous.
Like I said. I'm a teenage girl. I know teenage girls. I'm around them every single day. And so called "peer pressure" is rarely to blame for anything at all.
I do, however, know a hell of a lot of people who refuse to own their desires, whether they be to have sex or anything else. It's multiplied in young girls who are so often TOLD that they are easy to manipulate.
Hell, we have a ready made excuse from the time we're in about fifth grade. Let's not discount the power of that.
51
I totally agree but-perhaps parents stop allowing their children the tools to do this. Be a Parent and use discipline with autonomy:
Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: au•ton•o•my
Pronunciation: \-mē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural au•ton•o•mies
Date: circa 1623
1 : the quality or state of being self-governing; especially : the right of self-government
2 : self-directing freedom and especially moral independence
3 : a self-governing state
Giving a per-pubescent or older child (under 18)a phone that can take pictures is like giving them full access to the internet.
Discipline sucks on both ends. BE A PARENT.
Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: au•ton•o•my
Pronunciation: \-mē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural au•ton•o•mies
Date: circa 1623
1 : the quality or state of being self-governing; especially : the right of self-government
2 : self-directing freedom and especially moral independence
3 : a self-governing state
Giving a per-pubescent or older child (under 18)a phone that can take pictures is like giving them full access to the internet.
Discipline sucks on both ends. BE A PARENT.
52
This is yet another story where adults claim to care about protecting children. They don't really care about the teenagers but the overzealous adults are concerned about teenagers expressing their sexuality.
Teens are being accused of sexual exploitation by the grown ups, on the assumption that teens view sex the way the grown ups do. They don't- they are exploring the bounderies of sex whereas adults have already closed them off.
Teens are being accused of sexual exploitation by the grown ups, on the assumption that teens view sex the way the grown ups do. They don't- they are exploring the bounderies of sex whereas adults have already closed them off.
53
The doctor is a misogynistic asshat and charging minors as sex predators for wanting to look at naked pictures of their peers is moronic.
People are dumb.
People are dumb.
54
Banning your child from using a camera because they MIGHT be sexting is also dumb...how about a simple conversation with your kid about making intelligent choices?
55
I'm pretty sure the sex offender database is going to soon become meaningless if production and distribution of child pornography comes to commonly mean I sent a naked picture of myself to my girlfriend when I was sixteen and sexual assault of a minor comes to mean I lost my virginity to my fifteen-year-old boyfriend when I was twelve.
Maybe this is a good thing.
Maybe this is a good thing.
56
On the other hand, there should be increased penalties for harassment involving distributing naked pictures of someone to hurt them. There was that girl who committed suicide after her ex-boyfriend did that.
58
@50: Right on. Teenagers may not be adults, but they're not exactly "children", either, and while teens (like adults) may not necessarily think through all the possible negative consequences of their actions, that does not = exploitation.
Also, yes, sexting is made possible by mobile phones, but kids without camera phones can still get their hands on digital cameras, webcams, etc. A teen who wants to take sirty/sensual/sexual/resque/explicit/whatever photos will find a way to do so even without a camera on their own personal mobile. Parents should just make sure they address the potential consequences of such behaviour with their kids. Seriously, people, why does good parenting have to mean restricting the availability of basic things like phones as opposed to encouraging kids to just think through possible consequences before acting (and helping them do so)? They're teenagers; they're gonna get up to shit, and the best way of protecting them from God-only-knows-what is to teach them to think.
Also, yes, sexting is made possible by mobile phones, but kids without camera phones can still get their hands on digital cameras, webcams, etc. A teen who wants to take sirty/sensual/sexual/resque/explicit/whatever photos will find a way to do so even without a camera on their own personal mobile. Parents should just make sure they address the potential consequences of such behaviour with their kids. Seriously, people, why does good parenting have to mean restricting the availability of basic things like phones as opposed to encouraging kids to just think through possible consequences before acting (and helping them do so)? They're teenagers; they're gonna get up to shit, and the best way of protecting them from God-only-knows-what is to teach them to think.
59
To clarify, diana98015, according to current law, the twelve-year-old who loses her virginity to the fifteen-year-old is, herself, guilty of sexual assault, as her partner was as unable to consent to sex as she was. So long as both are minors, it's incidental which is older than the other.
In most cases, the kids would get thrown out of court with a disciplinary lecture from the judge, but it would still go to court, and a judge could choose to imprison them and put them both (including the deflowered twelve-year-old) on the database.
Though as you put it, Losing ones virginity [at] twelve to anybody is sexual assault. So you may simply be trying to agree with the legal statutes. But, then, were her partner of majority, I'd think that only he would be guilty of a crime, and then only if they are not married.
In most cases, the kids would get thrown out of court with a disciplinary lecture from the judge, but it would still go to court, and a judge could choose to imprison them and put them both (including the deflowered twelve-year-old) on the database.
Though as you put it, Losing ones virginity [at] twelve to anybody is sexual assault. So you may simply be trying to agree with the legal statutes. But, then, were her partner of majority, I'd think that only he would be guilty of a crime, and then only if they are not married.
60
Kim, you just got all of slog fantasy material for weeks. You cheeky thing. ;)
Irena, no one here should be making this personal... I think the point is it's not black and white. The Doctor made a mistake generalizing about teen sexuality in a way that is a bit of a throwback -- girls are the "gatekeepers" responsible for maintaining sexual boundaries with no desires of their own, and boys are full of uncontrollable desire and cannot be blamed for their action. This may be true for some individually, but it is just not true across the board. The doctor's statement sets off all kinds of triggers for people because it perpetuates gender stereotypes that lead to the Good girl/Slut Dichotomy, which is really destructive to the sexual identity of girls. We just want to stop generalizing about something as sensitive as sexual agency.
and @15: I'm not sure, I just know that "douche-nozzle" is more fun to say.
Irena, no one here should be making this personal... I think the point is it's not black and white. The Doctor made a mistake generalizing about teen sexuality in a way that is a bit of a throwback -- girls are the "gatekeepers" responsible for maintaining sexual boundaries with no desires of their own, and boys are full of uncontrollable desire and cannot be blamed for their action. This may be true for some individually, but it is just not true across the board. The doctor's statement sets off all kinds of triggers for people because it perpetuates gender stereotypes that lead to the Good girl/Slut Dichotomy, which is really destructive to the sexual identity of girls. We just want to stop generalizing about something as sensitive as sexual agency.
and @15: I'm not sure, I just know that "douche-nozzle" is more fun to say.
62
queenofspades @50:
I think you made a good point @23 about girls wanting avoid the "slut" or "bad girl" label by blaming their desires on other things. And I agree that it's naive to assume that girls are always influenced by peer pressure, insecurity, etc. But I also think it's naive to assume that girls are never influenced by those things. You say:
I've been a teenage girl (I remember it well). I've taught them, and studied them, and watched their dynamics. So I've got to disagree with you on this one. Peer pressure is a huge force in the lives of teenagers -- it's a huge force in the lives of adults! And you've already made the point that "pressure" is what motivates girls to lie about their desires in the first place.
I agree completely. Our culture is still plagued by a puritanical disrespect for female desire, based on a fear of its power. And yes, this doctor's comments do reflect traditional ways of thinking about gender. But most teenagers--not all, but most--buy into those traditional views. Girls will do stupid things to impress boys (and vice versa). Girls do get pressured into sex.
The way I see it, the doctor was just reporting what he has been told. But yes, it would have been better if he'd said, “Boys say they sext because...” and “Girls seem to want to develop the relationship...” I also think we'd all be in a much better position to judge what he said if we knew more about the data he collected.
singing cynic @60:
Thank you for explaining that so well.
This is exactly the point I was trying to make.
More...
I think you made a good point @23 about girls wanting avoid the "slut" or "bad girl" label by blaming their desires on other things. And I agree that it's naive to assume that girls are always influenced by peer pressure, insecurity, etc. But I also think it's naive to assume that girls are never influenced by those things. You say:
I'm a teenage girl. I know teenage girls. I'm around them every single day. And so called "peer pressure" is rarely to blame for anything at all.
I've been a teenage girl (I remember it well). I've taught them, and studied them, and watched their dynamics. So I've got to disagree with you on this one. Peer pressure is a huge force in the lives of teenagers -- it's a huge force in the lives of adults! And you've already made the point that "pressure" is what motivates girls to lie about their desires in the first place.
I do, however, know a hell of a lot of people who refuse to own their desires, whether they be to have sex or anything else.
I agree completely. Our culture is still plagued by a puritanical disrespect for female desire, based on a fear of its power. And yes, this doctor's comments do reflect traditional ways of thinking about gender. But most teenagers--not all, but most--buy into those traditional views. Girls will do stupid things to impress boys (and vice versa). Girls do get pressured into sex.
The way I see it, the doctor was just reporting what he has been told. But yes, it would have been better if he'd said, “Boys say they sext because...” and “Girls seem to want to develop the relationship...” I also think we'd all be in a much better position to judge what he said if we knew more about the data he collected.
singing cynic @60:
Thank you for explaining that so well.
the point is it's not black and white
This is exactly the point I was trying to make.
63
@61: My senior year European History teacher had a policy of, if a phone rang in his class, taking it and having a conversation with the person on the other end about how the person they called wasn't getting his phone back. These were always awkward conversations.
64
Laws are gonna need to be questioned & maybe rewritten, as @59 suggests above. Kids have been playing Dr. since the dawn of time. Punishing them legally is not gonna help or change their basic desires. I remember what life @ 12 years old was like. I was an early bloomer & hormones flowed through me, making me think creepy boys (& some girls) were suddenly all that was distracting. If I'd have had a cel phone w/ a camera in my grasp, I could easily see getting over the teenage body awkwardness mentioned above to try to connect with someone. (Oh thank gods I didn't come of age in this day of cel phones.)
If you're a parent of a teen/teens, try to impress upon them that the images they send to whoever, can get forwarded around the world in nothing flat & that the 'net is forever. ;) & since they might likely "sext" anyhow, uncomfortable though this may be, tell 'em to crop their faces out or keep things otherwise hard to identify.
FWIW, the Megan's Laws don't seem to be as helpful as they're purported to be. Nobody wants to live next to live next door to pedophiles but if you do one of those safe-family-watch type searches, most ppl in more densely populated areas can't "get away".
If you're a parent of a teen/teens, try to impress upon them that the images they send to whoever, can get forwarded around the world in nothing flat & that the 'net is forever. ;) & since they might likely "sext" anyhow, uncomfortable though this may be, tell 'em to crop their faces out or keep things otherwise hard to identify.
FWIW, the Megan's Laws don't seem to be as helpful as they're purported to be. Nobody wants to live next to live next door to pedophiles but if you do one of those safe-family-watch type searches, most ppl in more densely populated areas can't "get away".
65
'The girl and the boy are guilty of playing you-show-me-yours-i'll-show-you-mine—a game we all played as children—but with a tech assist. For that they were both arrested and charged with "child exploitation and possession of child pornography," both felonies." Which is ridiculous.'
No they weren't, Dan. They were caught for MALICIOUSLY and with clear intent to harm, harass and intimidate the girl whose photo was originally sent, distributing the photo that she had sent in another (far more innocent) context. That would be wrong on every level no matter what age the participants were and what the format or media was.
It doesn't *not* qualify as harassment just because they're kids or just because they 'didn't know any better' or because they hadn't encountered punishment for doing this before. What the correct response to this is is another question, but there was unquestionably something very wrong and hurtful being done to the girl whose photo was being abused this way, and that is how this instance of 'sexting' got attention - when it really isn't 'sexting' at all; it's the abusive and deliberately harmful intent behind the distribution of the photo *beyond the original intent when the photo was sent to its original recipient*.
Read these articles for what they contain, Dan, and not for what you pre-judge the validity of the argument to be.
No they weren't, Dan. They were caught for MALICIOUSLY and with clear intent to harm, harass and intimidate the girl whose photo was originally sent, distributing the photo that she had sent in another (far more innocent) context. That would be wrong on every level no matter what age the participants were and what the format or media was.
It doesn't *not* qualify as harassment just because they're kids or just because they 'didn't know any better' or because they hadn't encountered punishment for doing this before. What the correct response to this is is another question, but there was unquestionably something very wrong and hurtful being done to the girl whose photo was being abused this way, and that is how this instance of 'sexting' got attention - when it really isn't 'sexting' at all; it's the abusive and deliberately harmful intent behind the distribution of the photo *beyond the original intent when the photo was sent to its original recipient*.
Read these articles for what they contain, Dan, and not for what you pre-judge the validity of the argument to be.
66
@65: Read the article yourself. "...were caught sending nude pictures of THEMSELVES to EACH OTHER [emphasis mine]...".
Also, re: "Has this Kraus guy ever met an actual teenage girl?", I imagine they've usually run off before he even gets his fly undone, so no.
Also, re: "Has this Kraus guy ever met an actual teenage girl?", I imagine they've usually run off before he even gets his fly undone, so no.
67
I agree with you 100%.
However, there's a small problem with trying to enforce child porn laws while not enforcing sexting (or other such ah, photography) between consenting teenagers.
That means that kids would be free to actually exploit themselves, either by doing so on their own, or by coercion by a third party. All they'd have to say is that they consented. 15 year old girls would be able to make a mint from their own websites.
However, there's a small problem with trying to enforce child porn laws while not enforcing sexting (or other such ah, photography) between consenting teenagers.
That means that kids would be free to actually exploit themselves, either by doing so on their own, or by coercion by a third party. All they'd have to say is that they consented. 15 year old girls would be able to make a mint from their own websites.
68
@66
From the linked article:
"In Plainfield last month, a 16-year-old girl took a nude photo of herself and texted it to a male student. The photo spread so quickly that some of the original senders told police they had received it from others.
"Illinois legislation is pending to make it illegal to upload on the Internet or disseminate a video of someone without their consent or with the intent to cause harm."
From the linked article:
"In Plainfield last month, a 16-year-old girl took a nude photo of herself and texted it to a male student. The photo spread so quickly that some of the original senders told police they had received it from others.
"Illinois legislation is pending to make it illegal to upload on the Internet or disseminate a video of someone without their consent or with the intent to cause harm."
69
@ 65, 68:
Read teh Chicago article more carefully.
The majority of the article discusses an incident, the incident on which dan is focusing, that does NOT relate to viral propagation of a 'sext'. The passage quoted by 68 is an aside at the end of the article meant to convey "oh no, sexting is rampant".
Read teh Chicago article more carefully.
The majority of the article discusses an incident, the incident on which dan is focusing, that does NOT relate to viral propagation of a 'sext'. The passage quoted by 68 is an aside at the end of the article meant to convey "oh no, sexting is rampant".
70
69
Read teh Chicago article more carefully.
Part of the article discusses an incident in which viral propagation of a 'sext' has not yet happened. The passage quoted by 68 at the end of the article points out "oh no, sexting is rampant".
Read teh Chicago article more carefully.
Part of the article discusses an incident in which viral propagation of a 'sext' has not yet happened. The passage quoted by 68 at the end of the article points out "oh no, sexting is rampant".
71
@70: "...viral propagation of a 'sext' has not yet happened."
An elephant has not yet fallen on your ankle. Does that mean it's going to happen?
Sexting is by no means rampant. Sure, it may be a problem in some areas. However, I went to a high school of 3000 students for four whole years. Know how many sexting scandals/murmurs of scandal there were? A Blutarski-esque zero point ZERO. You'd think that if every time a dirty picture went out from a cell phone it ended up on fifty other cell phones, we'd have heard something about it.
No, I don't see how that worls.
An elephant has not yet fallen on your ankle. Does that mean it's going to happen?
Sexting is by no means rampant. Sure, it may be a problem in some areas. However, I went to a high school of 3000 students for four whole years. Know how many sexting scandals/murmurs of scandal there were? A Blutarski-esque zero point ZERO. You'd think that if every time a dirty picture went out from a cell phone it ended up on fifty other cell phones, we'd have heard something about it.
No, I don't see how that worls.
72
This thread may be in its death throes by now, but just in case anyone is still reading, how about this idea: There should be MORE "sexting" out there, not less. In fact it would be ideal if ALL teenage kids (and by extension, eventually all people of any age) sooner or later had nude photos out there on the internet somewhere AND downloaded someone else's. Why? Because then we'd ALL BE GUILTY. And we could finally cut all this bullshit out. Or make the entire Earth one big jail for sex offenders.
It's the supposedly virtuous that make things hard for everybody else.
It's the supposedly virtuous that make things hard for everybody else.
74
I remember a Malcom In The Middle episode, Lance, in which Malcom publicly embarrassed Reece and wanted to undo the situation. His solution was to, over the School PA system, out his own little embarrassing secret, and then to systematically go through the school records and out everyone else, one by one.
It's really the {Pan = Satan} & {Pan is a sex god} & {Satan is EVIL} ∴ {Satan is a sex god} ∴ {Sex is EVIL} bit that emerges from the Abrahamic cultures that really makes this all knicker-twisting material. Every other culture has been able to figure out all boys got a pee-pee; all girls got a gee-gee‡. Having a public image to this effect merely lends further evidence to this truth.
‡ Except those few that don't.
It's really the {Pan = Satan} & {Pan is a sex god} & {Satan is EVIL} ∴ {Satan is a sex god} ∴ {Sex is EVIL} bit that emerges from the Abrahamic cultures that really makes this all knicker-twisting material. Every other culture has been able to figure out all boys got a pee-pee; all girls got a gee-gee‡. Having a public image to this effect merely lends further evidence to this truth.
‡ Except those few that don't.
75
@73: Clean the mud out of your ears. One, I am a geek, not a nerd. Two, I did not say that I did not receive any sexts, or that no one in my school did. What I said was that there was no sign nor rumor nor murmur of any dirty pictures being spread around to unintended recipients.
Is your sex life so bad that you are forced to make baseless judgments of those of others?
@74: I loved that Malcolm in the Middle episode! If I recall correctly, it ended with everyone in the school being polite to each other...except for Reese, who instantly memorized everyone else's secrets and wouldn't let them drop.
Is your sex life so bad that you are forced to make baseless judgments of those of others?
@74: I loved that Malcolm in the Middle episode! If I recall correctly, it ended with everyone in the school being polite to each other...except for Reese, who instantly memorized everyone else's secrets and wouldn't let them drop.
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