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News & ArtsFriday, January 29, 2010
Election School Levies: Pro vs. Con
Posted by Dominic Holden on Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 12:15 PM
Not everyone agrees with the Stranger Election Control Board's YES endorsement of both school levies in the February 9 election. Mellisa Westbrook, who wrote the voters' guide statement against the school facilities levy, argues that these property-tax subsidies can't solve the school district's problems. So today we're giving her a chance to have her say. But we're also letting the Schools First campaign respond.
Westbrook says you should vote NO on the $270 million facilities levy:
Nearly half of Seattle schools are 50+ years old. Aging schools need more care and yet, the district doesn’t maintain these schools. Taxpayers have generously funded over $700 million dollars worth of new schools. And yet, the district doesn’t take care of that major investment by doing regular maintenance. Garfield High School cost $119 million—the district needs to protect that kind of taxpayer investment. So what’s wrong:• $500M (half-a-billion dollars) in maintenance backlog with no plan to address it. This is not normal for any school district.
• Prop 1 will make a slight dent in the backlog but it’s like using a fire hose on a forest fire. Sure, you’ll put out a few flames but the fire is still raging.
• Once you vote, there is no accountability for how the money is spent. None.
• Deferred maintenance costs more than basic so fewer schools get the help they need from Prop. 1 and taxpayers get to pay more than they should.
• The preliminary BTA list had 23 schools getting new roofs; that’s now down to 11. The first list also had 7 buildings getting seismic help; now that’s down to 3 buildings.
• This levy also goes to technology upgrades and academics, not just buildings. And, just six buildings will take $62 million out of the $270 million.
Back in 1995, Superintendent John Stanford was worried about the maintenance backlog at $185M. Why isn’t our School Board and Superintendent worried about a $500M backlog in 2010? Why aren’t you?
Voting for Prop 1 enables the district to continue their poor facilities management. It’s a short-term gain for a long-term problem that will have a critical tipping point that will cause a crisis for this district.
If you don’t want better care for school buildings now, then when?
And Schools First fires back, saying you should vote YES on both levies:
There’s a Reason The Stranger Supports Props 1 & 2We haven’t run into a lot of opposition in the course of the campaign to pass Props 1 & 2, the Seattle Public School Levies, because let’s face it—who doesn’t support public schools? But there is one argument that has been raised and needs to be set straight.
A small faction wants to send a “message” to the District by voting against the school levies. Like most 'Vote No' messages, it isn’t clear what the intent is other than to force the District into rethinking the way it runs our public schools. Unfortunately, the wake-up call they intend for the District would have devastating consequences for our kids and our schools. Not only would EVERY public school in Seattle lose 23% of its funding— money used to keep teachers in the classroom and class sizes down— schools would be robbed of EVERY PENNY used to fund basic health and safety projects. Combined with the expected cuts in education funding coming from Olympia, it’s plain to see why The Stranger called support for these levies a “no brainer.” Our schools (and our kids) need them now more than ever!
So, if you want to send a message when you’re filling out your ballot, vote “Yes!” to renew both Props 1&2. Let Seattle’s 46,000 school kids know you won’t risk their right to a basic education, their health, or their safety.
Please, vote “Yes” to renew both levies and mail in your ballot by February 9.
Hate kids? Share your opinion in comments.
2
I like Melissa. I really do. She cares about kids. But it seems to me she cares about taxpayers more.
Her approach reminds me of folks who were against the Housing Levy. If it's not perfect, just stop funding it, seems to be their mantra, as if that is sustainable. The difference: in this case, it's not low-income workers that get screwed, it's our children. We lose families in this city when people like Melissa get their way, and take the "perfection or nothing" approach.
It reminds me of something that Jello Biafra once said:
Someday, even the experts will figure out that crime is not caused by rap music. Or even MY music. But by a power structure of self-absorbed property owners, so brain-dead and stupid, they won't even see that if you're too goddamn greedy to pay taxes for schools and services, they're not going to be any good anymore. And that uneducated time bombs are a very poor investment as a future workforce. And if you go on teaching people that life is cheap, and leave them to rot in ghettos and jails, they may one day feel justified in coming back to rob and kill you.
Duh.
Her approach reminds me of folks who were against the Housing Levy. If it's not perfect, just stop funding it, seems to be their mantra, as if that is sustainable. The difference: in this case, it's not low-income workers that get screwed, it's our children. We lose families in this city when people like Melissa get their way, and take the "perfection or nothing" approach.
It reminds me of something that Jello Biafra once said:
Someday, even the experts will figure out that crime is not caused by rap music. Or even MY music. But by a power structure of self-absorbed property owners, so brain-dead and stupid, they won't even see that if you're too goddamn greedy to pay taxes for schools and services, they're not going to be any good anymore. And that uneducated time bombs are a very poor investment as a future workforce. And if you go on teaching people that life is cheap, and leave them to rot in ghettos and jails, they may one day feel justified in coming back to rob and kill you.
Duh.
3
I discovered recently that the entire school district still runs on a 1980s-era VAX minicomputer. Their IT staff is also the most entrenched you'll find anywhere, maybe even including City Hall. My vote might be dependent on hearing more about what that "technology upgrade" means -- if it means dropping the VAX off a high balcony, I'll vote yes for sure.
4
Love your kids. Keep them out of government schools. Public schools are mis-managed because their is no accountability. We spend BILLIONS on education in the country and our students still lag behind many other countries. Throwing more money at a problem doesn't solve it.
6
I voted for both, but my 18 yo son voted only for the smaller one.
Mind you, this was before the Stranger endorsements came out, so maybe it was just his reaction to hearing all the stuff about taxes on the TV all the time - I blame the Colbert Report, which he likes more than the Daily Show, whereas I'm more into the Daily Show.
Funny thing is, he went to public schools in Seattle and his school benefited from the levies these two issues reauthorize.
Mind you, this was before the Stranger endorsements came out, so maybe it was just his reaction to hearing all the stuff about taxes on the TV all the time - I blame the Colbert Report, which he likes more than the Daily Show, whereas I'm more into the Daily Show.
Funny thing is, he went to public schools in Seattle and his school benefited from the levies these two issues reauthorize.
9
It makes zero sense to me to vote no on a school levy...but, there were some good points brought up - where IS the accountability to the tax payers? We should know how this money is being spent. I was disappointed that Schools First didn't actually provide a point-by-point response. That would've been more effective.
10
@4: I went to public schools, where I learned the difference between "their" and "there".
I can also do the math required to estimate the costs of educating the tens of millions of students in the United States. Hint: It doesn't take much spending on a per-student basis to get to BILLIONS of dollars.
I can also do the math required to estimate the costs of educating the tens of millions of students in the United States. Hint: It doesn't take much spending on a per-student basis to get to BILLIONS of dollars.
11
The accountability you're looking for comes in the form of the elected School Board.
Discussion of how the money is being spent is available in the Voters' Pamphlet.
Discussion of how the money is being spent is available in the Voters' Pamphlet.
12
@9 a line by line response is harder than the standard "but what about the children" response.
Seattle public schools are the worst in the region, and the poor neighborhood schools are the worst among those. When they can get all the students in the district graduating at similar rates with a quality of education that isn't wrapped around how shiny the building is, I will start voting for levys.
Seattle public schools are the worst in the region, and the poor neighborhood schools are the worst among those. When they can get all the students in the district graduating at similar rates with a quality of education that isn't wrapped around how shiny the building is, I will start voting for levys.
13
@11: Ah ha ha! That's FUNNY! The school board? As if they do ANYTHING other than rubber stamp the Superintendent's proposals.
I can't bring myself to vote NO on these levies, but I understand the frustration. Every year the central administration grows fatter. Every year the schools deliver less and less to our kids.
All one has to do is look at the cost overruns on the Garfield renovation to see how "accountable" the district is.
I can't bring myself to vote NO on these levies, but I understand the frustration. Every year the central administration grows fatter. Every year the schools deliver less and less to our kids.
All one has to do is look at the cost overruns on the Garfield renovation to see how "accountable" the district is.
14
#4: We're 37th in the world in the % of GDP we spend on education, and we have many more students per capita than most of the wealthy world (Japan, Korea, western Europe, etc.). Countries like New Zealand, Denmark, Malaysia, Israel, Sweden, and many more spend about 50% more of their GDP on education despite having fewer children per capita.
We're 18th in the world in math literacy scores, so it seems we're getting a pretty good bang for our buck. Almost all of the countries ahead of us spend more of their GDP on education (except Japan and South Korea, who have fewer children and vastly different cultures).
In this case, throwing money at the problem would make it a lot better.
We're 18th in the world in math literacy scores, so it seems we're getting a pretty good bang for our buck. Almost all of the countries ahead of us spend more of their GDP on education (except Japan and South Korea, who have fewer children and vastly different cultures).
In this case, throwing money at the problem would make it a lot better.
15
@4,
The number one factor in whether a kid succeeds in school is the degree of parental involvement. Where's the accountability in making sure parents take care of their children and don't just dump their kids on the school system?
The number one factor in whether a kid succeeds in school is the degree of parental involvement. Where's the accountability in making sure parents take care of their children and don't just dump their kids on the school system?
16
It's ironic that in a community where so many livelyhoods depend on the knowledge economy that people would be opposed to re-upping on these levys.
Educating kids cost a shit-ton of money. It just does. Having decent facilities is a part of that cost. I've got two kids in Seattle public schools and I'm pretty impressed with what they do in those schools with their limited resources. Remember, the public schools have to take EVERYBODY: the profoundly disabled, kids who don't speak English, kids who don't come from families that make education a top priority.
Does it really help to know how many pallets of roof shingles the district is going to buy? Vote yes. "Sending a message" by denying funds only hurts students.
Educating kids cost a shit-ton of money. It just does. Having decent facilities is a part of that cost. I've got two kids in Seattle public schools and I'm pretty impressed with what they do in those schools with their limited resources. Remember, the public schools have to take EVERYBODY: the profoundly disabled, kids who don't speak English, kids who don't come from families that make education a top priority.
Does it really help to know how many pallets of roof shingles the district is going to buy? Vote yes. "Sending a message" by denying funds only hurts students.
17
Accountability? People want accountability? I assume they're attending the board meetings and speaking up at them, then. That's where anyone in the district can demand accountability for pretty much everything. The board meeting agendas and schedules are public information, and there is a process for requesting an opportunity to speak. Most districts take the public meetings very, very seriously.
18
I agree that the Seattle School District is doing lots wrong--from stupid maintenence programs to "math" curriculum that doesn't actually teach math, or even arithmetic.
However, if the levies are voted down, the district powers aren't going to say "The public has spoken. We're wrong. Time to clean up our act." They're not even going to cut out administrative and academic "coach" non-teaching positions that suck up huge wads of money. They're just going to say "Waaa waaa waaa! The bad economy is what hurt our budget! Time to cram more kids into badly maintained buildings and cut any programs that actually teach them anything!"
Vote for the levies to have a flying chance at functioning schools. Lean hard on the school board to get things changed that need changing. There are some responsive members of the board these days (in addition to the usual dead wood)--get out there and push, push, push for action.
But cutting off the money is not going to bring one tiny bit of positive change, just more hurt.
However, if the levies are voted down, the district powers aren't going to say "The public has spoken. We're wrong. Time to clean up our act." They're not even going to cut out administrative and academic "coach" non-teaching positions that suck up huge wads of money. They're just going to say "Waaa waaa waaa! The bad economy is what hurt our budget! Time to cram more kids into badly maintained buildings and cut any programs that actually teach them anything!"
Vote for the levies to have a flying chance at functioning schools. Lean hard on the school board to get things changed that need changing. There are some responsive members of the board these days (in addition to the usual dead wood)--get out there and push, push, push for action.
But cutting off the money is not going to bring one tiny bit of positive change, just more hurt.
19
Yes, the Seattle School District is wrong in so many ways--from bad maintenence practices to "math" curriculum that doesn't teach math, or even arithmetic.
But-- if the levies don't pass, the powers that be are not going to say "Oh, no! The people have spoken! Time to clean up our act and fix this mess." No, they are going to say "Waaa waaa waaa! The bad economy has hurt our beautiful budget! Time to cram more kids into badly-kept-up buildings and cut more programs that actually teach anything!"
So vote for the levies. THEN, go to the school board and lean on them for changes. There are now several members of the board who are actually responsive (in addition to the ususal dead wood).
Cutting the money isn't going to bring one bit of help, but will bring plenty of hurt.
But-- if the levies don't pass, the powers that be are not going to say "Oh, no! The people have spoken! Time to clean up our act and fix this mess." No, they are going to say "Waaa waaa waaa! The bad economy has hurt our beautiful budget! Time to cram more kids into badly-kept-up buildings and cut more programs that actually teach anything!"
So vote for the levies. THEN, go to the school board and lean on them for changes. There are now several members of the board who are actually responsive (in addition to the ususal dead wood).
Cutting the money isn't going to bring one bit of help, but will bring plenty of hurt.
21
So if her major complaint is that the schools are not spending enough money on building maintenance, I assume her alternate proposal would be to increase the school levy by $500 million on top of what we are currently voting for, right? That would fix all of her issues. No?
I'm not quite sure how she expects to get the maintenance budget increased by voting down the school levy.
I'm not quite sure how she expects to get the maintenance budget increased by voting down the school levy.
22
Let's see: will our city's children having their minds ground into dust and their spirits shattered in crumbling, disease-ridden school buildings, or will they have their minds grounds into dust and their spirits shattered in relative physical comfort? Decisions, decisions.
23
MichaelP, I've worked for public education for over a decade so I care more about taxpayers? Please. And perfection? Taxpayers PAY for public schools; we owe them a district that uses that money wisely.
Schools First can't refute what I am saying simply because...it is all true. I've had Board members tell me to my face, "you're right." Also Schools First did not separate the levies; I do. I absolutely SUPPORT Propl2 - Operations. But Prop 1 is another story.
Shabadoo, you really would vote for Board member simply on the basis of how they would spend money on facilities? No you wouldn't.
Geni, if I thought getting crowd at a Board meeting would help, I'd do it. You cannot get change in this district by going to Board meetings or any other kind of meeting. I wish.
Finally, the district would get the message. They might not say that in public but if the Operations levy passes but not the BTA, they'd get it.
Reverse, I wish it was that easy. They don't ask for more money (they could and they could also save themselves the cost of a separate election by doing this in November but they don't) because they couldn't say that the levy was a renewal.
If you vote for Prop 1, you will get a short-term solution to a long-term problem. This will not be the last time you hear about this $500M backlog. They can't "levy" their way out of this. And it will cost us all more for repairs that the district could have done earlier and cheaper.
Lastly, we live in an area where we could have a major earthquake. Just like Haiti. If that happens (and I hope and pray it doesn't), the Viaduct will flatten like a pancake. Most of those killed on it will be adults. At the same time, we have schools that have severe seismic issues. The people killed in those buildings will be children. What do we say then? Sorry, but we weren't willing to stand up to the district and say, Take Care of the Facilities Properly...Now.
Your choice but no saying later on that you didn't know it could happen. Now you know.
Melissa Westbrook
More...
Schools First can't refute what I am saying simply because...it is all true. I've had Board members tell me to my face, "you're right." Also Schools First did not separate the levies; I do. I absolutely SUPPORT Propl2 - Operations. But Prop 1 is another story.
Shabadoo, you really would vote for Board member simply on the basis of how they would spend money on facilities? No you wouldn't.
Geni, if I thought getting crowd at a Board meeting would help, I'd do it. You cannot get change in this district by going to Board meetings or any other kind of meeting. I wish.
Finally, the district would get the message. They might not say that in public but if the Operations levy passes but not the BTA, they'd get it.
Reverse, I wish it was that easy. They don't ask for more money (they could and they could also save themselves the cost of a separate election by doing this in November but they don't) because they couldn't say that the levy was a renewal.
If you vote for Prop 1, you will get a short-term solution to a long-term problem. This will not be the last time you hear about this $500M backlog. They can't "levy" their way out of this. And it will cost us all more for repairs that the district could have done earlier and cheaper.
Lastly, we live in an area where we could have a major earthquake. Just like Haiti. If that happens (and I hope and pray it doesn't), the Viaduct will flatten like a pancake. Most of those killed on it will be adults. At the same time, we have schools that have severe seismic issues. The people killed in those buildings will be children. What do we say then? Sorry, but we weren't willing to stand up to the district and say, Take Care of the Facilities Properly...Now.
Your choice but no saying later on that you didn't know it could happen. Now you know.
Melissa Westbrook
25
It's amazing to me that Melissa Westbrook is the only person any media outlet can find with an opposing position. Says something, doesn't it?
26
Melissa:
No need to shout. We're all adults here. Well, except for Will - he's Canadian.
I'm just saying your argument screams "taxpayers over children", and it does. You mention taxpayers, you mention everything that's wrong with the maintenance department, and talk a lot about shoddy buildings, but not once do you mention kids. This levy may not be enough to deal with the backlog, but in times of economic hardship, it's somewhere to start.
If you believe there should be an additional levy on top of this renewal, draft the legislation for your SB member, go out in the community and begin to sell additional taxes to clear the backlog, and start doing the work. Don't torpedo something that will make the backlog worse if it doesn't pass, and will pose more safety problems for more of our children in public schools without passage.
To use your reference, if you get your way, and Prop 1 is defeated, and an earthquake does strike, then there will be more unsafe buildings at that time, and more children will die or be seriously injured, because it wasn't perfect to vote yes on now. Nice.
Maybe you can have that on your conscience as you vote no, but I sure as hell refuse to take that risk.
No need to shout. We're all adults here. Well, except for Will - he's Canadian.
I'm just saying your argument screams "taxpayers over children", and it does. You mention taxpayers, you mention everything that's wrong with the maintenance department, and talk a lot about shoddy buildings, but not once do you mention kids. This levy may not be enough to deal with the backlog, but in times of economic hardship, it's somewhere to start.
If you believe there should be an additional levy on top of this renewal, draft the legislation for your SB member, go out in the community and begin to sell additional taxes to clear the backlog, and start doing the work. Don't torpedo something that will make the backlog worse if it doesn't pass, and will pose more safety problems for more of our children in public schools without passage.
To use your reference, if you get your way, and Prop 1 is defeated, and an earthquake does strike, then there will be more unsafe buildings at that time, and more children will die or be seriously injured, because it wasn't perfect to vote yes on now. Nice.
Maybe you can have that on your conscience as you vote no, but I sure as hell refuse to take that risk.
27
I'm now voting against prop 1 - not because of Melissa's strong point-by-point argument, but because of Schools First's deceitful response.
Westbrook is not for "voting against the school levies," plural. She's against voting against ONE of them. NOT the one "to keep teachers in the classroom and class sizes down," NOT the one providing "23% of its funding." That's all prop 2. She's for prop 2.
Prop 1, which covers building and technology improvements only, is what she's proposing you vote against.
Schools First is the worst. And it's lame of you, Dominic, to not call them on their shit. You should be kicked off the SECB, since you don't seem to unserstand the issue.
Westbrook is not for "voting against the school levies," plural. She's against voting against ONE of them. NOT the one "to keep teachers in the classroom and class sizes down," NOT the one providing "23% of its funding." That's all prop 2. She's for prop 2.
Prop 1, which covers building and technology improvements only, is what she's proposing you vote against.
Schools First is the worst. And it's lame of you, Dominic, to not call them on their shit. You should be kicked off the SECB, since you don't seem to unserstand the issue.
28
@Melissa - You've failed to prove that a failed ballot measure would actually change business. In addition, what is your perfect solution? How would you intend to fix the backlog? It's always easy to be the naysayer; it's much harder to roll up your sleeves and start somewhere.
Something is better than nothing, but not for you it seems.
If it fails, our kids will get nothing. But that's ok; you'll have taught everyone a lesson. Good on ya.
Something is better than nothing, but not for you it seems.
If it fails, our kids will get nothing. But that's ok; you'll have taught everyone a lesson. Good on ya.
29
@3
Fnarf, The VAX now only runs a tiny part the the districts database - some portion of human resources, maybe. It has been being pruned for years. Most of the day to day Student and business stuff runs on a Oracle backend and a java or SAP front end.
Fnarf, The VAX now only runs a tiny part the the districts database - some portion of human resources, maybe. It has been being pruned for years. Most of the day to day Student and business stuff runs on a Oracle backend and a java or SAP front end.
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