Slog
News & ArtsFriday, January 29, 2010
At Large Your Body Is a Temple
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:13 PM
The Doubletree Hotel downtown Tallahassee doesn't have a health club. It doesn't even one of those depressing little gymlets with one or two lousy treadmills. I'd been sitting on my ass all day—in a car to the airport, at the airport, on an airplane, at the next airport, on the next airplane, and finally in the car to the hotel—and I needed to do something vaguely physical because people who sit all day DIE. Luckily the hotel has an arrangement with a gym right across the street, the receptionist told me when I looked like I might cry, and she handed me a pass. Which is how I wound up working out...
...at the Christian Life Center at the First Baptist Church in downtown Tallahassee. Would you like to take a tour of a "Jesus-centered health club"? Of course you would! The equipment may be ancient but it's serviceable...
...and the reading material on the stationary bikes—I was all alone for most of the 90 minutes I spent at the Christian Life Center—isn't exactly the latest issue of Us Magazine either...
...but, heeeeey, the guy in the ancient Lifecycle ad on the wall along with all those Christian motivational posters? He looks familiar—he should look familiar to anyone who stepped inside a health club, Jesus-centered or not, at any point between 1982 and 1992...
Christ, I'd forgotten all about that man's face, hair, cheekbones, chest, arms, and shoulders—those shoulders!—and found myself wondering where he is now. I had "fitness" magazines with him in them hidden in my bedroom when I was, shit, fifteen? I loved that man. Ironic that we should renew our relationship in a gym that with anti-gay literature by the check-in desk. Moving on, fat activists will be peeved to learn that the Christian Life Center has totally embraced the BMI fraud/conspiracy and copy editors will be saddened to see how literally they take "cross your T's" here in Tallahassee...
Okay, I think it's time to hit the locker rooms, don't you?
But first... to hell with worrying about our BMIs, huh? We worked out hard—we broke a sweat—so who's in the mood for a little something deep fried? Thankfully there's a deep fryer in the kitchen area right outside the gym...
...and now let's hit the showers. The locker room is up the stairs, just take a left at the motivational mural/visual time capsule of late 1980s workout fashions...
...let's take a closer at the detail for Jen...
...and then...
...communal showers...
...just like Jesus wanted.
2
Late 80s? The fashions in that mural have to go back to the Carter administration. The basketball player is wearing All Stars, for crying out loud.
3
Lifecycle Poster Guy will also be familiar to recipients of International Male catalogs from the same decade.
4
BMI fraud? I have not heard of this before. I do understand that BMI is not a reliable indicator of obesity in, say, professional athletes who have a higher percentage of muscle than the 'man on the street', but is there some other reason to call it a fraud?
Eight glasses of water a day, now that's a fraud. But I digress.
http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/8gla…
Eight glasses of water a day, now that's a fraud. But I digress.
http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/8gla…
5
Wow! I drove past a "God's Gym" in Oakland last summer. I am so glad this place wasn't crowded with puffing Pentecostalists while you were there. My vintage fitness icon was that first Soloflex fellow, who wound up doing a calendar I panted over when Bailey/Coy first opened...
7
The mural is very similar to one in the girls' locker room at my high school. The differences: in ours, every figure was a lady, and every lady whose hips and crotch were included had some variety of dangling tampon-esque scrawl added in ancient Sharpie.
8
I'm pretty sure that mural was taken from the manila-colored peechee my classmates hauled around during middle school. I - of course! - was too cool for such pedestrian peechees, myself.
9
In that mural, I mistook the volleyball net for a monster, some combination of Spiderman and Neon Genesis Evangelion angel. Terrifying. And it was going to death-hug that running woman!
10
It's true, the BMI is a crock. And unlike most bullshit numbers we use for modeling important concepts, it isn't even very useful or descriptive.
12
My Mom used to have a religious aerobics record back in the late 80's. I swear to God. I'd come home and hear her working out to "One! Two! Three! Four! Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord!"
14
#10: Yes, football players show up as obese or almost obese with the BMI - because they are obese or almost obese. Michael Phelps has a 23.7 BMI, which is right in the normal range. And you're not Michael Phelps.
BMI is a measure of how heavy you are for your height. It's about as perfect a measure as you can get.
BMI is a measure of how heavy you are for your height. It's about as perfect a measure as you can get.
16
Oh, Dan.... You get yourself into some crazy situations, dont you? I love it... Why are you in Tennessee of all places? did you anger god and he sent you there as hell was all full?
18
Cue the next version of YPW or some gym scene from a 1980s bareback porn.
To Dan, were you the only one using the gym at that time? Please say you ran into some hot confused 21 y.o WWJD who jerked off for you in the showers.
To Dan, were you the only one using the gym at that time? Please say you ran into some hot confused 21 y.o WWJD who jerked off for you in the showers.
19
Ah - I now see that, Fnarf and TV Dinner are in their 40s. Although maybe TV Dinner is a bit younger, as there was nothing cooler than those folders in that pre-Trapper-Keeper era.
22
I love google search - If this is Brian Buzzini now - http://www.maxtalent.com/files/brianbuzz… (SFW) then he's fucking hot with the salt and pepper hair
23
Dan - I'm actually suprised that you stuck around. Is missing your workout really awful enough to give these people money?
25
@24, when your cock is as small as mine, you lose perspective. There's a pic of him standing in or by a pool and his dong is better shown off in that. But, it's no enormous whozeewhatsit.
26
The BMI is a good test, although it is not perfect. Whenever a fatty preaches to me that the BMI is bullshit, I always ask them to kindly take a measurement of their waist if they're so convinced their BMI rating is unrealistic. Your waist measurement does not lie, and unless you're a football player, if your BMI says you're obese, your waist measurement will just re-confirm this.
You know, for people that are in good health, we realize that it is hard to gain muscle. It doesn't just come out of nowhere! You have to work at it, exercise several days a week and eat well. If you just sit around 7 days a week and eat unhealthy foods, it's likely your overweightness is not caused by muscle, but by fat!
You know, for people that are in good health, we realize that it is hard to gain muscle. It doesn't just come out of nowhere! You have to work at it, exercise several days a week and eat well. If you just sit around 7 days a week and eat unhealthy foods, it's likely your overweightness is not caused by muscle, but by fat!
28
Ah yes, @5, Scott Madsen.
If he were the real-life recipient of all the loads I dropped on him in my mind, he'd be preserved like a fly in amber.
Somewhere I have a pic of him naked on a painted carousel unicorn... [mousemousemouse]
If he were the real-life recipient of all the loads I dropped on him in my mind, he'd be preserved like a fly in amber.
Somewhere I have a pic of him naked on a painted carousel unicorn... [mousemousemouse]
30
I think I would have burst into flames if I'd entered a place like that. Although some of those Christian boys are pretty damned cute!
31
Those Soloflex half-hour TV commercials got me through some pretty lonely pre-coming out days.
And Dan, God I love you!
And Dan, God I love you!
33
@17 and 20: I think Poster Boy is a "gay for pay" porn actor Lex Baldwin, not Brian Buzzini. Baldwin was beefy, Buzzini was very lean, almost skinny.
Scroll down a tiny bit on this link for Lex: http://www.nightcharm.com/2007/05/01/lex…
Scroll down a tiny bit on this link for Lex: http://www.nightcharm.com/2007/05/01/lex…
34
@14, 26: You're both full of shit. The BMI isn't bad because it can't tell you when you're obese (>35), but because it can't tell the difference between an overweight and a muscular person in the intermediate range.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_i…
So for MOST people, the 66% who fall within a standard deviation of the mean, the BMI number is not only bullshit but unhelpful.
A much better bullshit number for determining how fat you are is the body fat percentage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_fat_pe…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_i…
So for MOST people, the 66% who fall within a standard deviation of the mean, the BMI number is not only bullshit but unhelpful.
A much better bullshit number for determining how fat you are is the body fat percentage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_fat_pe…
36
#33 - having spent many a private hour with Lex Baldwin in the 80's I can guarentee that gymposterboy is NOT Lex Baldwin. And, according to the link you've provided. Lex has been carving himself up pretty good with plastic surgery.
Perhaps hes worried about his BMI...
Perhaps hes worried about his BMI...
37
@ 33 The poster guy is Brian Buzzini; I've lusted over Lex before and after his really, really bad nose job. FYI: Lex is the brother of straight porn star T. T. Boy and they reportedly hate each other.
Dan you have my sympathy; I've served my time on the road in redneck towns far from civilization more times than I can count. Just remember what's waiting for you at home. Do check out MSNBC's rebroadcast of Obama schooling the House GOP caucus in Baltimore. It will put a smile on your face!
Dan you have my sympathy; I've served my time on the road in redneck towns far from civilization more times than I can count. Just remember what's waiting for you at home. Do check out MSNBC's rebroadcast of Obama schooling the House GOP caucus in Baltimore. It will put a smile on your face!
39
Well, if you're going to be a total sell-out by stepping foot in the State of Florida, one of the only states with a complete ban on gay adoptions, then you might as well work out at Christ's personal gym.
I grew up about two hours west of Tallahassee, so a bit of advice. If you start hearing banjos, I'd run like hell...
I grew up about two hours west of Tallahassee, so a bit of advice. If you start hearing banjos, I'd run like hell...
43
@JTC Holy cow - thanks for the ID. Didn't know of him before, but he's certainly gotten hotter with age. Gorgeous. =)
44
As an (unfortunate) resident of Tallahassee, Florida, I'm totally psyched that Dan is visiting Florida State University! (is the phrase "totally psyched" too 80's?)
Yes, Dan, Tallahassee is not a place people typically visit by choice, but thank you for coming here nonetheless. Those of us who appreciate you and who appreciate open-mindedness are grateful to have you come and speak.
Yes, Dan, Tallahassee is not a place people typically visit by choice, but thank you for coming here nonetheless. Those of us who appreciate you and who appreciate open-mindedness are grateful to have you come and speak.
45
@26: I have a BMI that is in the last number before overweight. My waist to hip ratio is 31:42 (in inches), leaving me in the heart-healthiest category. I can't speak for men, but as a pear-shaped person, the BMI is totally worthless for me.
So that's me. Does that fit with your "measurements don't lie" idea? Just curious.
So that's me. Does that fit with your "measurements don't lie" idea? Just curious.
46
Dan, it's a great story. But it would have been even better if you had brought along Mike Gerle as your workout buddy.
47
There are worse work out scenarios Dan... some of my friends from my Christian days do this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQyWSqgJG… everyday.
48
Hey Dan, thanks for coming to FSU. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. And please, don't be scared to come back to Florida--you're preaching to the choir (so to speak) in Seattle, but we need you down here.
(By the way, I happen to know of several gay and/or kinky people who live within a few blocks of that church. Just sayin...)
(By the way, I happen to know of several gay and/or kinky people who live within a few blocks of that church. Just sayin...)
54
Dan,
Yep, people who sit all day do indeed die and we stationaryites take solace in the fact that even the most physically fit person dies too. So what if the overly active live a few years longer? Those extra years are the solitary, bed ridden, geriatric dementia filled, drolling, pissing, and shitting yourself years, so you're welcome to 'em my buff buddy. But as you lie there in death's waiting room trying to remember your name and wondering when the night nurse will attend to your overflowing colostomy bag, just think of me moldering away in my grave and not once having suffered a Christian themed gym. See you soon!
Personally, I'll just sit here waiting for seven o'clock to roll around, at which point I'll lift my fat ass from this chair and visit the nearest greasy spoon and enjoy my lard laden biscuits with bacon gravy breakfast; maybe I'll have a side order of sausages in your honor. Yum, can't wait to drink my coffee: four sugars and lotsa cream!
Yep, people who sit all day do indeed die and we stationaryites take solace in the fact that even the most physically fit person dies too. So what if the overly active live a few years longer? Those extra years are the solitary, bed ridden, geriatric dementia filled, drolling, pissing, and shitting yourself years, so you're welcome to 'em my buff buddy. But as you lie there in death's waiting room trying to remember your name and wondering when the night nurse will attend to your overflowing colostomy bag, just think of me moldering away in my grave and not once having suffered a Christian themed gym. See you soon!
Personally, I'll just sit here waiting for seven o'clock to roll around, at which point I'll lift my fat ass from this chair and visit the nearest greasy spoon and enjoy my lard laden biscuits with bacon gravy breakfast; maybe I'll have a side order of sausages in your honor. Yum, can't wait to drink my coffee: four sugars and lotsa cream!
58
@54: I have to deal with people like you all the time. Exercising just doesn't make you live longer; it makes your quality of life better. They did a study that followed runners with healthy controls over time- not only were runners less likely to be dead at the end, but the onset of disability was on average 12 years later. There have also been studies recently that linked exercise with decreased cognitive decline (can't remember any of the specifics now). So, on average, not only will we live longer than you, we also have a lot more mobile, clear-headed years where we get to live independently and visit the nearest greasy spoon (because we do; exercise requires fuel) while you waste away in a nursing home, trying to remember how to call the nurse so she can help you out of bed and into your wheelchair.
60
@54 That's some brilliant fucking logic. Diabetes is a hoot! You're one of those fat fucks on a hoveround scooter wearing sweats with a huge, sagging panis, using the lift on the bus with your bag full of McDonald's outside the hospitals on first hill, clogging up our already struggling health care system because you can't stop chewing on logs of cookie dough.
61
@50 & BMI Debate: Some people just have to ruin a great thread about vintage gay porn stars, pee-chees, and Christian cluelessness.
Did Slog forget to post your daily fat bashing?
Did Slog forget to post your daily fat bashing?
64
To all the BMI defenders out there, try being 6'7. I could be an emaciated 3rd would resident and I'd have to lose weight according to that damn thing.
65
OMG, Ugurtha! You're a Seminole? Is it still as hot and humid there as I remember? I am NEVER going to live in Florida again!
66
@64 -- BMI is a ratio so it doesn't matter your height when figuring it.
BMI doesn't take into account aesthetics, current body-image fads or wishes....
BMI doesn't take into account aesthetics, current body-image fads or wishes....
67
We sure do love our numbers don't we? IQ, Kinsey Scale, breast/penis, income, BMI...it's bad enough I have multiple pin numbers/passwords in my head; everytime I add a new number it pushes an old one out...
BMI is stupid primarily because fat people (at least most of us) KNOW we are fat...and for borderline people who aren't sure, it probably means you need to lose 10lbs and start exercising everyday to be healthy.
NEXT!
BMI is stupid primarily because fat people (at least most of us) KNOW we are fat...and for borderline people who aren't sure, it probably means you need to lose 10lbs and start exercising everyday to be healthy.
NEXT!
68
My experience with the BMI: the first time I measured myself on it, I was off-the-chart obese -- 5'10" and 290 pounds with a 42-inch waist. A doctor had just classified me as "moderately obese," for whatever that's worth. After I joined a gym, got into much better shape, and lost nearly 100 pounds (two unrelated occurrences in my experience, but never mind that), I looked so different that rumors circulated that I had cancer and/or had had gastric bypass surgery. At 5'10" & 195 pounds with a 34-inch waist, I took up less space, but weighed more than, a marathon-running fitness-buff friend of mine. According to the BMI, I was still well into the "overweight" range. So I decided that the BMI is stupid.
I know personal experience is meaningless to anyone whose experience is different, and I must be self-deluded or lying, or something; but there's my $.02.
I know personal experience is meaningless to anyone whose experience is different, and I must be self-deluded or lying, or something; but there's my $.02.
69
#58 - There have also been studies recently that linked exercise with decreased cognitive decline (can't remember any of the specifics now).
That made me laugh. A big belly laugh...
That made me laugh. A big belly laugh...
70
There's so innocence in this post by Dan, in a twisted, anti-Christian way, but still sorta innocent.
I wonder what would've happened had he actually met Christian members of the gym who share his same views about the importance of exercise ?
I wonder what would've happened had he actually met Christian members of the gym who share his same views about the importance of exercise ?
71
That is such a hot post.
The last time I enjoyed a hot communal shower was in the Missionary Training Center in Provo.
those were the days.... hmmmmm
The last time I enjoyed a hot communal shower was in the Missionary Training Center in Provo.
those were the days.... hmmmmm
72
Dan, this is hilarious! I often go to this very gym because it's the only one within walking distance of my office in downtown Tallahassee. (By the way, I saw you at FSU Friday night, and you were awesome.) I've actually smelled pork chops frying as I walked to the locker room, and the ultra-retro atmosphere is ... well, your photos say it all.
73
@68 --- Your weight range is 140-175 for your height. At 195, you likely still had at least 20 pounds of fat in your body.
Sorry you don't like it.
BMI doesn't care either.
Were you able to keep it off? That's the hardest part for me. I initially lost 90 pounds but 24 have come back in the last 2 years. Fat cells suck.
Sorry you don't like it.
BMI doesn't care either.
Were you able to keep it off? That's the hardest part for me. I initially lost 90 pounds but 24 have come back in the last 2 years. Fat cells suck.
74
@70: I'm pretty sure that Dan doesn't hate Christians. He, and many other people such as myself, deeply hate Christians who attempt to impose their ridiculous values on non-Christians or Christians who are only moderately observant. Your kind of holier-than-thou "we must save these poor heathens" attitude has been going on since the Middle Ages. I'm tired of the modern pogroms against those who refuse to believe that Jesus was anything other than a lay rabbi who was killed for espousing the view that we should all be nice to each other.
It makes perfect sense to me that Christian-themed gyms would be a little bit weird.
It makes perfect sense to me that Christian-themed gyms would be a little bit weird.
75
@70
You don't have to be anti-Christian to be creeped out by Christian separatist culture. There's something a little weird about the persistent trend for people to segregate themselves from society based on their religion, even when they're doing something that is completely unaffected by it.
Exercise is a great example. There's nothing sacrilegious at normal, secular gyms, as far as I can tell, and Christians exercise just like everyone else, albeit maybe with different stuff on their iPods. The fact that someone, some group, thought they needed to start up a separate Christian gym is just... weird. Cultish and kinda antisocial.
It certainly can't help much with evangelism. You don't alienate a population that you want to win over.
But hey, don't take my word for it. I'm pretty anti-Christian and apparently therefore "twisted." Unlike Dan, I don't think I could have stomached this place. I'd probably just have gone for a run and done some floor exercises instead.
You don't have to be anti-Christian to be creeped out by Christian separatist culture. There's something a little weird about the persistent trend for people to segregate themselves from society based on their religion, even when they're doing something that is completely unaffected by it.
Exercise is a great example. There's nothing sacrilegious at normal, secular gyms, as far as I can tell, and Christians exercise just like everyone else, albeit maybe with different stuff on their iPods. The fact that someone, some group, thought they needed to start up a separate Christian gym is just... weird. Cultish and kinda antisocial.
It certainly can't help much with evangelism. You don't alienate a population that you want to win over.
But hey, don't take my word for it. I'm pretty anti-Christian and apparently therefore "twisted." Unlike Dan, I don't think I could have stomached this place. I'd probably just have gone for a run and done some floor exercises instead.
76
Guys,
I can't stomach that place. But that should not be a surprise to you all, according to someone here I'm a closet athiest because I don't support their fundamentalism.
I get Gandhi's comment about liking Christ but not Christians all to well. All. To. Well.
I can't stomach that place. But that should not be a surprise to you all, according to someone here I'm a closet athiest because I don't support their fundamentalism.
I get Gandhi's comment about liking Christ but not Christians all to well. All. To. Well.
77
Any reasonable person would expect someone who comes into their property and is received without any problems to be a little more respectful and not be taking photos to make fun of them because of their religion. Or keep from insinuating that they have " anti-gay literature by the check-in desk." , by which he meant the Bible.
And if someone calls herself/himself a Christian but blasphemes against the Holy Spirit and all that is written in the New Testament in order to justify what satisfies her passions, then clearly such a person cannot be what she claims to be. Matthew 7:15
And if someone calls herself/himself a Christian but blasphemes against the Holy Spirit and all that is written in the New Testament in order to justify what satisfies her passions, then clearly such a person cannot be what she claims to be. Matthew 7:15
78
@73 - not so much that I didn't like it -- I was pretty happy with how I looked & felt -- it was just that I couldn't find ~20 more pounds to lose sanely. It seemed like it would take some freaky diet (protein drinks + vitamin supplements instead of meals, that kind of thing) to lose noticeably more, and I wasn't willing to go there. Actually, one summer I did this routine where I would spend like 2 hours on an elliptical machine with a heart rate about 140. I got noticeably thinner, as in needing to cut new holes in my belt, but didn't lose any weight. I guess I would have had to lose fat AND muscle to reach the proper BMI, and that seemed silly.
And yes, I've gained back about 25 pounds because I frankly can't stand starving myself all the time.
And yes, I've gained back about 25 pounds because I frankly can't stand starving myself all the time.
79
@73 BMI is absolutely useless for anybody over 6 feet tall, and it's _not_ a simple ratio. To be at my maximum healthy weight for 6'3", (BMI = 25), I'd have to weigh 200 pounds, which would put me at about 8% body fat. Now I don't know about you, but I'm not of the opinion that anybody without washboard ab sis overweight.
80
@77: You people seem to have no problem with going against the Old Testament to satisfy your passion for a nice slice of bacon for breakfast. I'm going to call you a cuntwhorebitch again, just because I can and you are.
@79: I'm six three and weigh about 185 pounds. I've got medium build, and could probably stand to LOSE a few pounds off my gut. I imagine that you have somewhat of a heavy build, judging by your statements. It's really a sliding scale; if you have a naturally light build, your healthy BMI range will be lower than the chart suggests, and the opposite for if you're naturally big-boned.
@79: I'm six three and weigh about 185 pounds. I've got medium build, and could probably stand to LOSE a few pounds off my gut. I imagine that you have somewhat of a heavy build, judging by your statements. It's really a sliding scale; if you have a naturally light build, your healthy BMI range will be lower than the chart suggests, and the opposite for if you're naturally big-boned.
81
Aw... Loveschild you wound me.
Actually, you don't at all. Maybe, you should follow your own advice and stop coming here and disrespecting Savage on his own blog. Or do your delusions allow you your hypocrisy?
I wish you freedom from your fears. I wish you peace.
As to Matthew 7: 15 you a) do not have the reading comprehension skills to understand it and b) it is talking about you dear, not me. I have found the narrow gate and you are lost and hoping your punative and vindictive vision of God doesn't smite you. You're hanging with the den of robbers you fool, you don't understand the message of the gospel at all. You keep the gate locked and the strangers excluded . You deny justice to the poor and peace to the hurting. I pity you your slavery. Here's hoping that your blind eyes learn to see and your deaf ears learn to hear, until then you still have not been transformed.
Actually, you don't at all. Maybe, you should follow your own advice and stop coming here and disrespecting Savage on his own blog. Or do your delusions allow you your hypocrisy?
I wish you freedom from your fears. I wish you peace.
As to Matthew 7: 15 you a) do not have the reading comprehension skills to understand it and b) it is talking about you dear, not me. I have found the narrow gate and you are lost and hoping your punative and vindictive vision of God doesn't smite you. You're hanging with the den of robbers you fool, you don't understand the message of the gospel at all. You keep the gate locked and the strangers excluded . You deny justice to the poor and peace to the hurting. I pity you your slavery. Here's hoping that your blind eyes learn to see and your deaf ears learn to hear, until then you still have not been transformed.
82
Oh, how I wish I had been there when you stopped in. I would have given you a tour of the women's locker room, which includes an old-school cedar sauna, and introduced you to the locals, referred to affectionately (by some) as the First Baptist Church Men's Knitting Circle and Weightlifting Club. Yes, I workout there everyday at lunch despite my belief in the importance of my BMI. It is surreal to see pictures of my lunchtime gym in a blog, but I am glad you came by! :)
83
I wasn't referring to the bible when I said there was anti-gay lit at the gym, LC, but I'm surprised that you would object to the bible being described that way. Right-wing Xtian assholes—not to be confused with genuine Christians like Kim—are always going on and on about how they have no choice but to oppose civil equality for gays and lesbians because gays are condemned in the bible and we're called and abomination and the bible says we should be put to death.
Does lit get more anti-something than calling for the deaths of people who are or practice that something?
Hilariously enough, Xtians give a pass to all the other folks the bible condemns and insists should be put to death—adulterers, women who aren't virgins on their wedding nights, etc.—while waving those anti-gay passages in our faces.
So, LC, why aren't you proud to describe the bible as anti-gay and anti-gay lit?
Does lit get more anti-something than calling for the deaths of people who are or practice that something?
Hilariously enough, Xtians give a pass to all the other folks the bible condemns and insists should be put to death—adulterers, women who aren't virgins on their wedding nights, etc.—while waving those anti-gay passages in our faces.
So, LC, why aren't you proud to describe the bible as anti-gay and anti-gay lit?
84
Loved the 'body is a temple' part. After looking at so many rich mega-church preachers I had wondered if that phrase still applied.
88
@83 First of all it's the Bible with a capital B. Just because you subconsciously ( I believe ) despise it doesn't mean you need to diminish it for the rest of us. Second, I apologize if I misread what you posted but that was the impression it gave me especially since you posted a photo with a Bible in a treadmill, as if that was something bizarre that should belong on a freak show, like no sane person whose as health conscious as you would want to see it there. Third, it seems to me had you made more of an effort to better understand the religion of your heritage instead of goin off on what amounts to nothing more than an atheistic barbarian head hunting campaign against Christians you'd know that the old laws which the original chosen people of God ( the Israelites ) had to observe thoroughly, were brought to and end when our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ came and enacted a new new covenant with humanity by paying the ultimate price for us thru his redeeming blood at Calvary. He has cleansed all of us, Kim, venom, me and even virulent unmitigated proud atheists like you and balderdash and many others here. Luke 22:20.
By doing so, by paying the ultimate price in the cross at Calvary, He opened the doors to all of us previous gentiles who had no hope whatsoever, and not just our brethren, His first love (the Jewish people ). We just have to be willing to go thru that door. For He is the mediator and the redeemer of the sins committed under the first covenant. Hebrews 9:15
So the sentence called for in Leviticus 20:13 doesn't need to be carried out by us today anymore. However, the act still remains an affront unto the nature that God has intended for us as humans and an impediment to be in communion with our Heavenly Father that keeps people away from receiving their inheritance in His kingdom. 1 Corinthians 6:9
Smooth operators like Kim that only serve their own appetites and deceive ( astray sheep like you ) with smooth talk and flattery ( Romans 16:17-18 ) cannot be true followers of Christ Dan, because Jesus wants all of us to come and know Him, even if we stray away from Him, He still Loves us so much that even if one of us is missing He worries about us. Luke 15:4.
People like Kim are just being selfish and not telling you the truth that will allow you to free yourself from the horrible shackles that keep you from coming back to Him and both being in communion and receiving your inheritance from your Heavenly Father that created you. I on the other hand do want you to know what you've been missing and lacking in your life, the absence of which causes you so much grief to the point that it drives you to lash out against Christians and those who adhere to what's natural, I believe deep down not because you really want to do so but because no one has actually taken the time to explain to you or other fellow proud atheists the truth. Your " Note to the Faithful of NYC " post tells me you are trying tho, no matter how much you deny on Slog. And that makes me happy for you. I know you're just taking baby steps now, and it's gonna take time for you to fully come back to Christ. We all have had to go thru similar hard realizations and processes that seem to go forever in order to be born again, we still do even after we've finally decided to places our lives in the comforting hands of Jesus. But don't let that deter you from keeping on, because you'll be victorious in the end. Please go to church tomorrow. In God's Love.
89
@88: You can trumpet your hatred of gays, espouse anal-retentive forms of Christianity, and make pretenses to moral high ground. BUT REFER TO ME AS "VENOM" AND YOU HAVE CROSSED A LINE, CUNTWHOREBITCH! The name is "venomlash"; no abbreviations, no capitalization.
I'm sorry you think that Christians can follow the New Testament but not the Old. So, because Jesus came along and saved all of you twerps, you no longer are subject to the Ten Commandments? I'm sorry; we Jews hold that the Torah that God has given us is unchanging and will not be replaced by any other covenant. You tarnish the legacy of Jesus by worshiping him as a god; he was a good man, a good rabbi, even perhaps a prophet, who preached forgiveness and tolerance. But you it, seems, would be determined to make a golden calf out of him. In my opinion, of course. And since I am rational and tolerant, I have no problem with people practicing different religions, so long as they don't proselytize.
Those who are true followers of Jesus would be those who think "WWJD?" before making moral decisions, who follow the rules of "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you", "Judge not lest ye be judged", and "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". It continues to amaze and horrify me how accurate Gandhi's assessment of Christians was.
I'm sorry you think that Christians can follow the New Testament but not the Old. So, because Jesus came along and saved all of you twerps, you no longer are subject to the Ten Commandments? I'm sorry; we Jews hold that the Torah that God has given us is unchanging and will not be replaced by any other covenant. You tarnish the legacy of Jesus by worshiping him as a god; he was a good man, a good rabbi, even perhaps a prophet, who preached forgiveness and tolerance. But you it, seems, would be determined to make a golden calf out of him. In my opinion, of course. And since I am rational and tolerant, I have no problem with people practicing different religions, so long as they don't proselytize.
Those who are true followers of Jesus would be those who think "WWJD?" before making moral decisions, who follow the rules of "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you", "Judge not lest ye be judged", and "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". It continues to amaze and horrify me how accurate Gandhi's assessment of Christians was.
90
So sorry for being selfish, Dan. I just can't justify allowing you to be viewed, seen, or treated like a second class citizen. I can not support that, nor do I think I could look myself in the mirror if I did, not even for the promise of a pie in the sky and incredible harp playing skills. I can't beat you endlessly with scripture either. What I can do is buy you a cup of tea/ a beer/ or a dram of whiskey when your in PDX and you can ask me any question you wish. The offer is always there. Always.
Fondly,
k
Fondly,
k
91
In figuring out why Christianity (especially the fundy kind) rubs me such the wrong way, I realize this is what bothers me the most: They truly believe that if I don't share their beliefs then something really HORRIBLE is gonna happen to me (oh, I dunno, like BURNING FOR ETERNITY IN A FIERY PIT!!!). That's just SO twisted and mean, yet it seems to be their core belief. I don't believe in superstitious mumbo-jumbo, but I don't think anything HORRIBLE is gonna happen to those who do. (I just think the're kooky.)
92
@88: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HebReKH82…
Seriously, you should be flattered that anyone here bothers to uncode your unique approach to the language enough to take issue with whatever it is you're saying.
Seriously, you should be flattered that anyone here bothers to uncode your unique approach to the language enough to take issue with whatever it is you're saying.
93
When you are looking at the title in the 'Most Commented' menu, does anyone else read: "Your Booty is a Temple" due to the font/size/Freud?
95
LC @ 88,
I know that we disagree about a lot and that is okay. I have been very open with the fact that I do not ascribe to Loveschild's interpretation of what it means to be a follower of Jesus. You can feel free to let me have it anytime. If you have something to say to me, then say it directly to me. Slandering me to another person is immature, mean spirited, and not Christ-like at all.
Nevertheless, you're forgiven for it, as always.
I know that we disagree about a lot and that is okay. I have been very open with the fact that I do not ascribe to Loveschild's interpretation of what it means to be a follower of Jesus. You can feel free to let me have it anytime. If you have something to say to me, then say it directly to me. Slandering me to another person is immature, mean spirited, and not Christ-like at all.
Nevertheless, you're forgiven for it, as always.
96
Brian Buzzini, straight from this poster, if I'm not mistaken:
http://cdn1.ioffer.com/img/item/846/749/…
http://cdn1.ioffer.com/img/item/846/749/…
97
http://cdn1.ioffer.com/img/
item/846/749/76/o_MP0140.jpg
Sorry, couldn't get the box to accept the whole link, for some reason, but here are the 2 parts of it.
item/846/749/76/o_MP0140.jpg
Sorry, couldn't get the box to accept the whole link, for some reason, but here are the 2 parts of it.
98
BMI places me as "Obese I" (low 30s), despite the fact that I can run a 10k fun-run and finish comfortably towards the front, axe-kick a glove placed 2 feet above my head-height, and do push-ups in sets of 30. Someone looking at me and not knowing better would describe me as 'athletic and broad-shouldered'. Lucky I have BMI to uncover the truth about my level of health and fitness.
/sarcasm
Still, for those GENUINELY obese people in the care of a fitness professional, it's a tool to scare them into doing an extra 5 minutes on the treadmill. If they're being threatened with not having a 'correct' BMI by their personal trainer, though, the battle is at least half won already. Now if we can just find a way to get the people sitting at home who think a BMI is some kind of fried snack to the gym in the first place, we'll be getting somewhere.
/sarcasm
Still, for those GENUINELY obese people in the care of a fitness professional, it's a tool to scare them into doing an extra 5 minutes on the treadmill. If they're being threatened with not having a 'correct' BMI by their personal trainer, though, the battle is at least half won already. Now if we can just find a way to get the people sitting at home who think a BMI is some kind of fried snack to the gym in the first place, we'll be getting somewhere.
100
To all the 'I can do this so I must not be overweight' people:
You're overweight. Deal with it.
The U.S. has a weight problem. The median size for women is a 12. Just because everyone else is big doesn't mean you're okay.
You're overweight. Deal with it.
The U.S. has a weight problem. The median size for women is a 12. Just because everyone else is big doesn't mean you're okay.
101
@100: Hey, now. The BMI is a rough measurement that would work fine if it took into account a person's build. People with heavy builds may have BMIs of 27 or so, and yet be almost entirely muscle. Your weight doesn't matter so much; what you really need to worry about is the amount of fat you have. It's not about being big, it's about being fat. 98's response, in particular, suggests that sort of heavy, muscular build that the BMI tends to discriminate against.
102
@34 - Yes, this. And no, it's not just super-muscled freaks of nature for whom the BMI is inaccurate. My husband has a fairly rigorous manual labor job that gives him a pretty trim body with dense muscles, but he's not a bear with a huge waist measurement. In fact, he's quite slender and lanky and has virtually no body fat. According to the BMI, though, he's obese.
Obviously, for someone like him, it's clear enough to see that the BMI lies, but where it really gets problematic is for someone closer to average, like me. My BMI number tells me I'm a little in the unhealthy range, and I *do* have some body fat, though I'm not big (I wear a size 7). I do, however, have a genetic tendency to put on unusual amounts of muscle in my legs (all the women in my family have RIPPED thighs, dunno why) and a highly muscled upper body (I'm a trombone player). Should I be concerned? I don't know. I need a better test to know that.
Really, it seems to be that the BMI is really only accurate in the case of people who quite obviously have too much fat and no muscle to speak of, obviously enough that the BMI is hardly necessary.
Obviously, for someone like him, it's clear enough to see that the BMI lies, but where it really gets problematic is for someone closer to average, like me. My BMI number tells me I'm a little in the unhealthy range, and I *do* have some body fat, though I'm not big (I wear a size 7). I do, however, have a genetic tendency to put on unusual amounts of muscle in my legs (all the women in my family have RIPPED thighs, dunno why) and a highly muscled upper body (I'm a trombone player). Should I be concerned? I don't know. I need a better test to know that.
Really, it seems to be that the BMI is really only accurate in the case of people who quite obviously have too much fat and no muscle to speak of, obviously enough that the BMI is hardly necessary.
103
BMI is accurate for the vast majority of people. Many overweight people are in denial about it, and try to rationalize and justify their weight. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn…
Lovechild, you don't get the last word on how to interpret the Bible. You don't even know most of what is in the Bible, and you can only regurgitate some spoon fed passages. Meanwhile you ignore the Bible passages you don't want to follow.
Lovechild, you don't get the last word on how to interpret the Bible. You don't even know most of what is in the Bible, and you can only regurgitate some spoon fed passages. Meanwhile you ignore the Bible passages you don't want to follow.
104
@95 I'm sorry you feel that by stating the truth about our ( because you claim to also be a Christian) faith and correcting you I've somehow been letting you " have it anytime", the only thing I've been letting you have is the Gospel of Christ. Proverbs 13:18
My sister in Christ, I do not want you to take this that I've said in a wrong way. It has never been my intention to imply that I'm better than you ( that's against everything our faith call of us ), I welcome corrections myself. But as members of the body of Christ when one of us falls and lead others astray, how can we not help them seek the path to our Father again ? I want you to both come back and show unto others the way to life. Proverbs 10:17
My sister in Christ, I do not want you to take this that I've said in a wrong way. It has never been my intention to imply that I'm better than you ( that's against everything our faith call of us ), I welcome corrections myself. But as members of the body of Christ when one of us falls and lead others astray, how can we not help them seek the path to our Father again ? I want you to both come back and show unto others the way to life. Proverbs 10:17
105
104, Lovechild, do you braid your hair, or wear gold? Do you speak or sing in church? Do you agree that women should not hold authority over, or teach men? Do you not believe that slaves should be subservient to their masters? You don't follow the Bible. You only hold up selected cherry picked passages to attack others.
106
@73- Fat cells do not suck. You need fat cells to process vitamins and to store energy for long term exertion. You should have AT LEAST 8% of your weight in fat. Tour de France riders at the end of the the Tour drop below that, but eat their way back up. If they don't, they get sick and listless.
107
Loveschild @ 104,
Let us try again.
1)You are welcome to your opinion. You can state your "truths" about me as often as you like. But, slandering me to Dan behind my back is not Christ-like. You can say it to my face. That is why you were forgiven.
2) Stop your cherry picking. If you are so up on your Bible then you know that you are not permitted to address Dan, I, or anyone else in an open forum on what you consider to be our sins. You don't get to ignore Matthew 18:15 to suit your purpose, you hypocrite.
3) There is no church of Loveschild. There is no gospel according to Loveschild. There is no divinely proclaimed official interpretation of scripture according to Loveschild. There is no denomination of the United Church of Loveschild. There is no seminary of Loveschild. There is no theology that allows Loveschild to cherry pick her scriptures in her version of the "truth". Hence, the rest of us don't have to bow to the pedestal you put yourself upon. We are not morally obligated to accept your correction based off of your opinions.
4) As long as you continue to come here and spout your moral superiority and proclaim your knowledge and understanding of the Bible. I'm going to call you our your hypocrisy, see you must walk the talk or you're nothing but a white washed tomb. Got it? It won't be hard, you acted hypocritically two times at least on this thread alone. Hence, why your example sucks and you are not taken seriously.
5) I haven't walked away. Just because I don't walk and talk like a Loveschild clone, doesn't mean I have left. It means that I choose not to associated with the mean spirited, slandering, hypocritical, and hateful actions of yours and the likes of Pat Robertson. I don't sit in service twice every Sunday, so that some human with an agenda can spoon feed me their personal or denominational interpretation of the Bible. I'm not obligated to accept their reasoning, just because they stand at a pulpit. Maybe, spoon feeding makes you happy, it wouldn't seem so, based off of the negativity you radiate here. You want to be a slave, have at it. Stop trying to enslave me with your interpretation of the "truth".
More...
Let us try again.
1)You are welcome to your opinion. You can state your "truths" about me as often as you like. But, slandering me to Dan behind my back is not Christ-like. You can say it to my face. That is why you were forgiven.
2) Stop your cherry picking. If you are so up on your Bible then you know that you are not permitted to address Dan, I, or anyone else in an open forum on what you consider to be our sins. You don't get to ignore Matthew 18:15 to suit your purpose, you hypocrite.
3) There is no church of Loveschild. There is no gospel according to Loveschild. There is no divinely proclaimed official interpretation of scripture according to Loveschild. There is no denomination of the United Church of Loveschild. There is no seminary of Loveschild. There is no theology that allows Loveschild to cherry pick her scriptures in her version of the "truth". Hence, the rest of us don't have to bow to the pedestal you put yourself upon. We are not morally obligated to accept your correction based off of your opinions.
4) As long as you continue to come here and spout your moral superiority and proclaim your knowledge and understanding of the Bible. I'm going to call you our your hypocrisy, see you must walk the talk or you're nothing but a white washed tomb. Got it? It won't be hard, you acted hypocritically two times at least on this thread alone. Hence, why your example sucks and you are not taken seriously.
5) I haven't walked away. Just because I don't walk and talk like a Loveschild clone, doesn't mean I have left. It means that I choose not to associated with the mean spirited, slandering, hypocritical, and hateful actions of yours and the likes of Pat Robertson. I don't sit in service twice every Sunday, so that some human with an agenda can spoon feed me their personal or denominational interpretation of the Bible. I'm not obligated to accept their reasoning, just because they stand at a pulpit. Maybe, spoon feeding makes you happy, it wouldn't seem so, based off of the negativity you radiate here. You want to be a slave, have at it. Stop trying to enslave me with your interpretation of the "truth".
108
@106: I think hartiepie is referring to how fat cells tend to accumulate every bit of fat they can, making it easy to regain weight. We do need to have some fat tissue, of course. There's a reason all those coat-hanger models are so unhealthy.
109
Somebody be my hero and turn the flippin' italics off. LC left it on and my attempt to close it failed.
112
Oh Geez Kim be careful! (@111) You keep blowing kisses at F-T-E and you never know what he might do (but I suspect it'll involve a ball-gag).
(Cheers to you both!)
(Cheers to you both!)
113
Yep, us guys are like that. Blow us one little kiss and the next thing you know we're tying your hands behind your back and ball-gagging you. It's true, it's true.
114
@103 - Actually, even the Department of Health and Human Services page about the BMI warns that it's not accurate for people with a more muscular build. Which means it's not a scam, but it's an extremely blunt tool. Problem is, it's often not treated as such.
115
Attitude Devant,
It always involves a ball-gag. It's a little joke from last summer. And those kisses of mine always arrive tainted with whiskey and land on the cheek. I'm a good girl most of the time ...
Cheers to you as well.
It always involves a ball-gag. It's a little joke from last summer. And those kisses of mine always arrive tainted with whiskey and land on the cheek. I'm a good girl most of the time ...
Cheers to you as well.
116
@100: SOME of the over-weight people who complain about BMI are just in denial. Others are generally fit, well-built people with a good muscle-fat ratio and dense bones from weight or impact training. I hate BMI because it's so easily dismissed; fat people take one look at people like me, with the same BMI as them, and say 'oh well, who cares what my BMI is, it's obviously meaningless'.
The fact is, you can generally take one look in the mirror and work out if you're over-weight or not. There are exceptions to this as a 'health' test though: I had a good friend in high school who had a great trim figure, but ate terribly and never exercised. She was just small and never seemed to put on any weight. There was very little muscle in that slender frame, but her BMI was great!
It would be great to have something to wave in front of obesity and show people that they need to lose weight, but BMI isn't it.
The fact is, you can generally take one look in the mirror and work out if you're over-weight or not. There are exceptions to this as a 'health' test though: I had a good friend in high school who had a great trim figure, but ate terribly and never exercised. She was just small and never seemed to put on any weight. There was very little muscle in that slender frame, but her BMI was great!
It would be great to have something to wave in front of obesity and show people that they need to lose weight, but BMI isn't it.
117
@107 It is clear that your comprehension about the Scriptures is very poor at best. You clearly don't attend church either. Denominations are just that, the Bible is the core guide provided to us by our Heavenly Father. Is not about me and is not about you either, it's about the freeing message of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
"If you are so up on your Bible then you know that you are not permitted to address Dan, I, or anyone else in an open forum on what you consider to be our sins."
This is precisely what I mean about you lacking basic understanding in the faith Kim. For if you knew you would not comment such things. The Bible from which we take our directions in order to be in communion and serve for the glory of our Father is very clear.2 Timothy 4:2.
It's not the Gospel according to Kim, nor according to Loveschild nor anyone else but Jesus Christ and the good news is, it's readily available for all those so inclined to look for it, in the Bible, yes the Bible. How cool and merciful is our Heavenly Father. For those of us who have already come to accept Him as our Savior the Bible is very clear Kim. Acts 10:42.
Why do you distance yourself from what the Bible says ? Worst, why do you deceive these little ones here by blaspheming against the word of God ?
"If you are so up on your Bible then you know that you are not permitted to address Dan, I, or anyone else in an open forum on what you consider to be our sins."
This is precisely what I mean about you lacking basic understanding in the faith Kim. For if you knew you would not comment such things. The Bible from which we take our directions in order to be in communion and serve for the glory of our Father is very clear.2 Timothy 4:2.
It's not the Gospel according to Kim, nor according to Loveschild nor anyone else but Jesus Christ and the good news is, it's readily available for all those so inclined to look for it, in the Bible, yes the Bible. How cool and merciful is our Heavenly Father. For those of us who have already come to accept Him as our Savior the Bible is very clear Kim. Acts 10:42.
Why do you distance yourself from what the Bible says ? Worst, why do you deceive these little ones here by blaspheming against the word of God ?
119
@117- What little ones?
It is obvious to any observer that you are following the Gospel according to Loveschild, which explains why you find it so clear.
It is obvious to any observer that you are following the Gospel according to Loveschild, which explains why you find it so clear.
120
@ 117, Dang your reading comprehension skills have slipped dramatically today, Loveschild. I clearly said that I attend service weekly, but you don't like to be wrong, so you lie. Which makes you a liar and a hypocrite on this thread. Bang up job your doing being an example.
Sorry that your English skills are so poor that you can't understand Matthew 18: 15, but that isn't my problem. You think you would learn to hold your tongue, but you insist on tracking shit in as per usual. You're issues are to be done in private. You want to evangelise and prosetylize Savage do it privately. You want to talk to me, well then come do it privately. By the way, Matthew 18: 15 is from the Gospel of Matthew, and is narrated as being the actually translated words of Jesus, which means Jesus instructions trump a letter that may or may not have been written by Paul (since the dating is around 66-67 CE). Fascinating that you believe "Paul's" letter written, some 30 years after Jesus was crucified and by someone who was not among the twelve, is what you choose to go against the narration of Matthew and support your point.
You go right ahead and worship that Bible of yours. Continue to turn off your mind, you fundamentalist fool, those symbols on the page must be both interpreted and reasoned to have a meaning. You want someone else to tell you what to think, enjoy, it is your prerogative. Me, I'm not going to set anything above God.
By the way, to some denominations the Bible is not the core guide, you'd be wise to educate yourself on that matter, instead of spouting off like an arrogant fool in the future. Some denominations hold to the Bible has hard and fast fundamentalism, it is marked by both its anti-intellectualism and its legalism, hence the earth was made in exactly 6, 24 hour days. Some denominations hold a softer form of fundamentalism, the Bible is not literally and absolutely true in everything, but there is often a "taken-for-granted" literalism, hence the earth was made in 6 days, but a day to God isn't a day to man. Finally, some denominations view the Bible as the writing of individuals who are sharing their perception of God, a human response to God, the earth was made in 6 days, and the days are a metaphor this is supported by the existence of two Genesis stories both presently found in the Book of Genesis but dated several hundred years apart. You could use a history lesson as well, Fundamentalism is not yet one hundred years old. The fundamental theory that the Bible is inerrant and literal is a modern one, it is neither ancient nor traditional. Google the Scopes trial of 1925. Hence, your denominations has not yet been confirmed as the right, correct, or true way, it is pride that allows you to claim that. I'm not morally obligated to accept your denomination as the "true" way. Again, stop tracking in shit and hold your tongue.
I don't deceive anyone. People are always welcome to disagree with me, I am not a fundamentalist. I don't tell others what to believe, but I welcome any questions they might have. I don't insult others and call them "little ones" or "sheep", because unless you speak "Christian" and understand the "cultural-linguistic traditions" and the meanings behind the words (which you obviously do not), you don't understand why those words would be chosen. See, sheep aren't very intelligent and little ones are frequently condescended to in 2010, so you sound arrogant again.
I don't want to play your little game. You can choose to act like an adult and not slander me or you can't. You are in control of how you are perceived, if you wish others to think that Christians are mean spirited, that they slanders others, that they lie, that they are arrogant, and that they are hypocrites, then keep on going. You're off to a great start.
More...
Sorry that your English skills are so poor that you can't understand Matthew 18: 15, but that isn't my problem. You think you would learn to hold your tongue, but you insist on tracking shit in as per usual. You're issues are to be done in private. You want to evangelise and prosetylize Savage do it privately. You want to talk to me, well then come do it privately. By the way, Matthew 18: 15 is from the Gospel of Matthew, and is narrated as being the actually translated words of Jesus, which means Jesus instructions trump a letter that may or may not have been written by Paul (since the dating is around 66-67 CE). Fascinating that you believe "Paul's" letter written, some 30 years after Jesus was crucified and by someone who was not among the twelve, is what you choose to go against the narration of Matthew and support your point.
You go right ahead and worship that Bible of yours. Continue to turn off your mind, you fundamentalist fool, those symbols on the page must be both interpreted and reasoned to have a meaning. You want someone else to tell you what to think, enjoy, it is your prerogative. Me, I'm not going to set anything above God.
By the way, to some denominations the Bible is not the core guide, you'd be wise to educate yourself on that matter, instead of spouting off like an arrogant fool in the future. Some denominations hold to the Bible has hard and fast fundamentalism, it is marked by both its anti-intellectualism and its legalism, hence the earth was made in exactly 6, 24 hour days. Some denominations hold a softer form of fundamentalism, the Bible is not literally and absolutely true in everything, but there is often a "taken-for-granted" literalism, hence the earth was made in 6 days, but a day to God isn't a day to man. Finally, some denominations view the Bible as the writing of individuals who are sharing their perception of God, a human response to God, the earth was made in 6 days, and the days are a metaphor this is supported by the existence of two Genesis stories both presently found in the Book of Genesis but dated several hundred years apart. You could use a history lesson as well, Fundamentalism is not yet one hundred years old. The fundamental theory that the Bible is inerrant and literal is a modern one, it is neither ancient nor traditional. Google the Scopes trial of 1925. Hence, your denominations has not yet been confirmed as the right, correct, or true way, it is pride that allows you to claim that. I'm not morally obligated to accept your denomination as the "true" way. Again, stop tracking in shit and hold your tongue.
I don't deceive anyone. People are always welcome to disagree with me, I am not a fundamentalist. I don't tell others what to believe, but I welcome any questions they might have. I don't insult others and call them "little ones" or "sheep", because unless you speak "Christian" and understand the "cultural-linguistic traditions" and the meanings behind the words (which you obviously do not), you don't understand why those words would be chosen. See, sheep aren't very intelligent and little ones are frequently condescended to in 2010, so you sound arrogant again.
I don't want to play your little game. You can choose to act like an adult and not slander me or you can't. You are in control of how you are perceived, if you wish others to think that Christians are mean spirited, that they slanders others, that they lie, that they are arrogant, and that they are hypocrites, then keep on going. You're off to a great start.
122
Child must be a masochist. Why else does she tangle with Kim? It's not for the reasons she says.
124
@120 Bless your heart, you contradict yourself so much here.
So lamentable to see you hold on to half-truths and spread them like wildfire here. Tell me why did you stop at verse 15 ? Matthew 18: 16-17 clearly states:
Since the beginning of our online correspondence ( between you and me at first ) in this blog, you have made use of half passages and biased secular sources. Only then have I made mention of the accurate teachings in the Bible. If I could safely meet you Kim I would. I believe tho, we've establish many exchanges thru this blog by now that both of us can be fully honest and help when one is in the wrong. I have presented you in the circle of prayer in my congregation already.
You seem to be under the impression that our Lord Jesus somehow intended His message to stop with Him once He ascended into heaven. Nothing could be further from the truth. Matthew 28:18-20 None of us would be able to know about the gift of eternal life that awaits us with Him if what you say was true. So much to your dismay Paul did not go "against" the teachings of Jesus but was merely an inheritor in the faith thru Peter and James, and doing what Jesus commanded as are all of us who have come after them. How is it my sister in Christ that you don't know this ?
"You go right ahead and worship that Bible of yours."
The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit. In their name and unto them must we offer our worship and praise. You're concentrating your eyes and your heart on the physical, the leather and the paper and not in the essence. John 1:1 / John 1:14
Again you seem obsessed with the denominations while forgoing the basic guide that our Heavenly Father has provided for, so that we're able to find our way back to Him. The Word of God. Without His Word, denominations, and church architectural structures are but a carcass, for it is only by His Word that we renew our strength. The nourishment of life is found in His Word not in denominations.
"I don't deceive anyone."
Yet you claim things that were not provided unto us by our Heavenly Father in His Word. When you make use of his Word you do so in half. And when all else has fails you, you go as far as lessening the importance of the commandment made by our Lord Jesus Christ of us bringing the good news to those who have yet not know Him or who have been led astray.
"I don't insult others"
And yet this are your replies : "hypocrite", "tracking shit ", " mean spirited" ,"arrogant" ,"fundamentalist fool". Matthew 15:19
My dear sister in Christ I love you in his name as I do all others here no matter if such is not returned. Our Lord calls us to be amongst those in need, we go to church on Sundays to gain strength and congregate in His name but once we have done so we must go unto the fields and work tirelessly the land first, especially in hostile environments.
Throwing out pretty words and flaunting academic knowledge of any sort is of little importance in the end. The fields of the Lord need us to be willing to toil without fear on the ground, and irrigate with the truth of His Word. For only by doing so can we secure that once the seed falls on the ground it will yield crop.
Leaving the land with abundance of rocks and thorns however will provoke the opposite.Matthew 13:20-23
In God's Love.
More...
So lamentable to see you hold on to half-truths and spread them like wildfire here. Tell me why did you stop at verse 15 ? Matthew 18: 16-17 clearly states:
16 "But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
Since the beginning of our online correspondence ( between you and me at first ) in this blog, you have made use of half passages and biased secular sources. Only then have I made mention of the accurate teachings in the Bible. If I could safely meet you Kim I would. I believe tho, we've establish many exchanges thru this blog by now that both of us can be fully honest and help when one is in the wrong. I have presented you in the circle of prayer in my congregation already.
You seem to be under the impression that our Lord Jesus somehow intended His message to stop with Him once He ascended into heaven. Nothing could be further from the truth. Matthew 28:18-20 None of us would be able to know about the gift of eternal life that awaits us with Him if what you say was true. So much to your dismay Paul did not go "against" the teachings of Jesus but was merely an inheritor in the faith thru Peter and James, and doing what Jesus commanded as are all of us who have come after them. How is it my sister in Christ that you don't know this ?
"You go right ahead and worship that Bible of yours."
The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit. In their name and unto them must we offer our worship and praise. You're concentrating your eyes and your heart on the physical, the leather and the paper and not in the essence. John 1:1 / John 1:14
Again you seem obsessed with the denominations while forgoing the basic guide that our Heavenly Father has provided for, so that we're able to find our way back to Him. The Word of God. Without His Word, denominations, and church architectural structures are but a carcass, for it is only by His Word that we renew our strength. The nourishment of life is found in His Word not in denominations.
"I don't deceive anyone."
Yet you claim things that were not provided unto us by our Heavenly Father in His Word. When you make use of his Word you do so in half. And when all else has fails you, you go as far as lessening the importance of the commandment made by our Lord Jesus Christ of us bringing the good news to those who have yet not know Him or who have been led astray.
"I don't insult others"
And yet this are your replies : "hypocrite", "tracking shit ", " mean spirited" ,"arrogant" ,"fundamentalist fool". Matthew 15:19
My dear sister in Christ I love you in his name as I do all others here no matter if such is not returned. Our Lord calls us to be amongst those in need, we go to church on Sundays to gain strength and congregate in His name but once we have done so we must go unto the fields and work tirelessly the land first, especially in hostile environments.
Throwing out pretty words and flaunting academic knowledge of any sort is of little importance in the end. The fields of the Lord need us to be willing to toil without fear on the ground, and irrigate with the truth of His Word. For only by doing so can we secure that once the seed falls on the ground it will yield crop.
Leaving the land with abundance of rocks and thorns however will provoke the opposite.Matthew 13:20-23
In God's Love.
125
@124: I shall leave Kim to write her own rebuttal, if she so chooses.
BUT: We don't want or need to hear from you, you arrogant cuntwhorebitch. Some of us are Christians, and are free to practice the faith as they see fit, not as you demand. Others, like me, are not, and do not need nor particularly want any Jesus in our lives. Do you realize how much needless and indiscriminate slaughter has been inflicted upon the world by Christianity, when people try to impose THEIR version of it on others?
-The Inquisition
-The Crusades
-The wars in Europe due to the clash of Reformation and Counter-Reformation
-The persecution inflicted by hate groups claiming to do God's work (such as the KKK)
Just to name a FEW.
Since charity is such as Christian value, how about you give us the gift of a little peace and quiet without your delusional ravings?
BUT: We don't want or need to hear from you, you arrogant cuntwhorebitch. Some of us are Christians, and are free to practice the faith as they see fit, not as you demand. Others, like me, are not, and do not need nor particularly want any Jesus in our lives. Do you realize how much needless and indiscriminate slaughter has been inflicted upon the world by Christianity, when people try to impose THEIR version of it on others?
-The Inquisition
-The Crusades
-The wars in Europe due to the clash of Reformation and Counter-Reformation
-The persecution inflicted by hate groups claiming to do God's work (such as the KKK)
Just to name a FEW.
Since charity is such as Christian value, how about you give us the gift of a little peace and quiet without your delusional ravings?
126
Loveschild,
If you had something to say you should have followed Matthew, first in private, then with the witness of two or three, then you are to take me to church, you did not do any of that. Slog is a public forum, and not even a Christian one at that. You have no justification for slandering me. You have no justification or right to tell me what I can or can not believe, what I do or do not believe, or pass judgement on how you see my relationship with regard to Jesus. I am not insulting you, I am stating the truth you are arrogant and conceited in your presumptions. Your continued attacks are mean spirited and hateful.
I told you that you were free to your own opinion. You're free to regurgitate what ever you have been spoon fed and told that you had to believe. It is your business. I do not have to listen. You do not have the right to force your opinion down the throat of others, or insist that you are believed or viewed as an authority.
The fact that you keep insisting that there is only one version of the Bible, when there isn't, there is a difference between denominations, is uneducated.
The fact that you insist that all denominations view the Bible as inerrant, literal truth, makes you sound hopeless, conceited, and prideful. It simply is not true.
The fact that you insist that the letters and books that were combined to form what you call your Bible (somewhere in the 1500s) is somehow inerrant and was never altered or changed, is anti-intellectual and legalistic in my opinion.
The books and letters of the Bible were not written in English, they were spoken and recorded in ancient Hebrew, ancient Greek, and Aramaic. The Gospels were not recorded until around 70 CE, a full 40 years after Jesus' crucifiction of which Mark's is the eldest and the rest used it as a template. Somebody had to write it down, somebody had to translate it, a person with thoughts, opinions, their own motivations, perspective, and yes their own agenda. Those so fortunate to not be dependent upon the English translation do not share your limitations. They can read what is more accurate to the truth. The fact is, what is written in the original languages does always match what is found in the English. That alone proves that there are errors in it's English translation. You may not like it, but it is the truth.
Bottom line, the Bible is but symbols on a page that lies there, until someone reads it, interprets it, and applies it. Everyone has their own take and it speaks differently to each person. You are free to rejoice about your take, but that doesn't make Loveschild's more correct. To keep insisting your more correct because you read everything literally is again, conceited, arrogant, and prideful. To continue in your arrogance then becomes mean spirited and hateful. There is no official Loveschild's personal take that Christians world wide must follow, or even a world wide governing body of Christians to state that Loveschild is correct.
Stop trying to enforce your take, your pastors take, or your denominations take on me. Am I clear?
I don't want you to ever address me on this subject again. I am not your mission field, do not proselytize to me again. Do not slander me again behind my back. Do not lie about me again. Do not tell me that you love me again. Your actions for the last months show that there is no truth behind your words. Go find your witnesses that will support you that I am a closet atheist. Go find people here that can confirm that you are not arrogant, a hypocrite, a liar, a slander, mean spirited, and have a fundamentalist opinion on the Bible which you use to deny others equality by your frequent comments here. If I'm wrong I am sure many will come forward. Go ask others how they see your "ministry" here, see if you have inspired any of them to attend church or consider/re-consider God. I suspect you know the answer, "I love you in his name as I do all others here no matter if such is not returned" already. See it is hard to understand that God loves you, when the person who claims to love you in his name treats you badly: claims your an atheist, claims that your family is not real, claims that your just a custodian to your son, claims that is okay to discriminate towards you on the basis of your sexual orientation, claims that it is okay for homosexuals to be put to death and arrested in another country, because that country is a sovereign nation, etc. Do I need to go on? You go ask Dan and others, if they appreciate your "love" and your proselytizing mission. Find out if they believe you. I do not.
Don't address me again on the subject of my faith or how you think I should be living it, this is public form and the internet, and you know nothing. Your arrogant assumption that you know anything is offensive.
I will not play your game.
More...
If you had something to say you should have followed Matthew, first in private, then with the witness of two or three, then you are to take me to church, you did not do any of that. Slog is a public forum, and not even a Christian one at that. You have no justification for slandering me. You have no justification or right to tell me what I can or can not believe, what I do or do not believe, or pass judgement on how you see my relationship with regard to Jesus. I am not insulting you, I am stating the truth you are arrogant and conceited in your presumptions. Your continued attacks are mean spirited and hateful.
I told you that you were free to your own opinion. You're free to regurgitate what ever you have been spoon fed and told that you had to believe. It is your business. I do not have to listen. You do not have the right to force your opinion down the throat of others, or insist that you are believed or viewed as an authority.
The fact that you keep insisting that there is only one version of the Bible, when there isn't, there is a difference between denominations, is uneducated.
The fact that you insist that all denominations view the Bible as inerrant, literal truth, makes you sound hopeless, conceited, and prideful. It simply is not true.
The fact that you insist that the letters and books that were combined to form what you call your Bible (somewhere in the 1500s) is somehow inerrant and was never altered or changed, is anti-intellectual and legalistic in my opinion.
The books and letters of the Bible were not written in English, they were spoken and recorded in ancient Hebrew, ancient Greek, and Aramaic. The Gospels were not recorded until around 70 CE, a full 40 years after Jesus' crucifiction of which Mark's is the eldest and the rest used it as a template. Somebody had to write it down, somebody had to translate it, a person with thoughts, opinions, their own motivations, perspective, and yes their own agenda. Those so fortunate to not be dependent upon the English translation do not share your limitations. They can read what is more accurate to the truth. The fact is, what is written in the original languages does always match what is found in the English. That alone proves that there are errors in it's English translation. You may not like it, but it is the truth.
Bottom line, the Bible is but symbols on a page that lies there, until someone reads it, interprets it, and applies it. Everyone has their own take and it speaks differently to each person. You are free to rejoice about your take, but that doesn't make Loveschild's more correct. To keep insisting your more correct because you read everything literally is again, conceited, arrogant, and prideful. To continue in your arrogance then becomes mean spirited and hateful. There is no official Loveschild's personal take that Christians world wide must follow, or even a world wide governing body of Christians to state that Loveschild is correct.
Stop trying to enforce your take, your pastors take, or your denominations take on me. Am I clear?
I don't want you to ever address me on this subject again. I am not your mission field, do not proselytize to me again. Do not slander me again behind my back. Do not lie about me again. Do not tell me that you love me again. Your actions for the last months show that there is no truth behind your words. Go find your witnesses that will support you that I am a closet atheist. Go find people here that can confirm that you are not arrogant, a hypocrite, a liar, a slander, mean spirited, and have a fundamentalist opinion on the Bible which you use to deny others equality by your frequent comments here. If I'm wrong I am sure many will come forward. Go ask others how they see your "ministry" here, see if you have inspired any of them to attend church or consider/re-consider God. I suspect you know the answer, "I love you in his name as I do all others here no matter if such is not returned" already. See it is hard to understand that God loves you, when the person who claims to love you in his name treats you badly: claims your an atheist, claims that your family is not real, claims that your just a custodian to your son, claims that is okay to discriminate towards you on the basis of your sexual orientation, claims that it is okay for homosexuals to be put to death and arrested in another country, because that country is a sovereign nation, etc. Do I need to go on? You go ask Dan and others, if they appreciate your "love" and your proselytizing mission. Find out if they believe you. I do not.
Don't address me again on the subject of my faith or how you think I should be living it, this is public form and the internet, and you know nothing. Your arrogant assumption that you know anything is offensive.
I will not play your game.
127
Bless you, venomlash, for making my smile.
I vote for peace and quiet from all sides, me included.
Just a friendly suggestion, if you really don't want he altering your name then you might want to just call her LC like most others. She doesn't care for your nickname for her. Your call, it is just my $0.02.
I vote for peace and quiet from all sides, me included.
Just a friendly suggestion, if you really don't want he altering your name then you might want to just call her LC like most others. She doesn't care for your nickname for her. Your call, it is just my $0.02.
128
I like calling her "child," just because she's so immature, so that works too. But LC does take fewer keystrokes...
129
I am 5'8 165 and the BMI calculator says I am overweight!!!! Hell this totally sucks!!! I have some pounds to lose. I should be around 145 to be in the middle range or normal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!yikes I thought I was normal?????
130
I am 5'8 165 and the BMI calculator says I am overweight!!!! Hell this totally sucks!!! I have some pounds to lose. I should be around 145 to be in the middle range or normal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!yikes I thought I was normal?????
131
Loveschild, you're gross.
If Jesus were standing next to you when you type this shit you spew here -- AND INVOKE HIS NAME FOR IT, TO BOOT -- he would punch you right in your smarmy sanctimonious face. Because Jesus couldn't stand liars and hypocrites -- ESPECIALLY THE ONES WHO INVOKE HIS NAME.
And if someone happened to be filming it when Jesus punched you in the face, that video instantly would be Numero Uno on Youtube. You'd be bigger than Chris Crocker, that 'Chocolate Rain' dude, the Dramatic Prairie Dog, or even Susan Boyle. People would watch it over and over again, and lots of people would link to your comments here on the Slog, so everyone would know just why Jesus was so pissed off at you. And it would be, like, a learning experience for you -- you'd finally realize that not only ALL of your fellow human beings, but even Jesus the Christ himself were all very, very tired of your nasty, self-righteous, stinky-ass funky ol' murky hate-filled thinking.
Get it? "Hate"-filled. You are filled with HATE. Jesus came here to talk about LOVE and you are filled with HATE. And that is why he would punch you right in the face, and millions of people would Favorite the video on YouTube.
Sincerely,
merry
If Jesus were standing next to you when you type this shit you spew here -- AND INVOKE HIS NAME FOR IT, TO BOOT -- he would punch you right in your smarmy sanctimonious face. Because Jesus couldn't stand liars and hypocrites -- ESPECIALLY THE ONES WHO INVOKE HIS NAME.
And if someone happened to be filming it when Jesus punched you in the face, that video instantly would be Numero Uno on Youtube. You'd be bigger than Chris Crocker, that 'Chocolate Rain' dude, the Dramatic Prairie Dog, or even Susan Boyle. People would watch it over and over again, and lots of people would link to your comments here on the Slog, so everyone would know just why Jesus was so pissed off at you. And it would be, like, a learning experience for you -- you'd finally realize that not only ALL of your fellow human beings, but even Jesus the Christ himself were all very, very tired of your nasty, self-righteous, stinky-ass funky ol' murky hate-filled thinking.
Get it? "Hate"-filled. You are filled with HATE. Jesus came here to talk about LOVE and you are filled with HATE. And that is why he would punch you right in the face, and millions of people would Favorite the video on YouTube.
Sincerely,
merry
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