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News & ArtsWednesday, January 27, 2010
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Saddlebacking and Double Dipping
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 2:46 PM
I heard you speak yesterday at the University of Manitoba. You may not remember my question, but when you opened the floor to questions I asked the last question about my used to be virgin boyfriend and anal sex.So we have been dating for 2+ years now long distance (he moved to Seattle and I live in Winnipeg) and at the start of the relationship he made it clear that he wanted to save the sex for after marriage. At first it was for a religious purpose and pro-creation... and blah blah blah... and I was fine with it because I didn't want him to force him into doing anything he didn't want to do. Then as the relationship started getting more serious he was open to do other things but not vaginal sex. After two year of no sex (it was sooo hard, but I was totally respecting what he wanted) he was open to anal but not vaginal sex because he was a paranoid that any dick-in-vag contact would = a baby. So I agreed because I'm open to anything! And at this point I was willing to settle for any penetration action! I just thought it was weird that we did all this in a this order. I always thought it went vag sex then anal somewhere down the road.
Was it werid that his first sex experience was anal sex? And if we eventually do get married and have vag sex, I'm scared he wouldn't like it as much as anal because maybe it won't be as tight? And is it bad of me to settle for whatever I could get? Anal sex is awesome... just not all the time.
Sexless In Seattle And Winnipeg
My response after the jump...
Was it wrong for you to settle? No, not wrong. Perhaps you were a bit overindulgent, SISAW, a little too accommodating, but you weren't wrong to take the penetration you could get.
However, SISAW, if you allow this boy to fuck your ass for the next two-to-five years—he hasn't even proposed yet, right?—it's possible that he'll have trouble making the transition from butt to vag when the time comes. Butt and vag are, as I vaguely recall, wholly different sensations. And the rumors are true: ass is tighter. (That's not a value judgment!) And if he's fucking your butt all through your courtship and during a (hopefully long) engagement (you're so young!), SISAW, you may find that he has difficulty getting off during vaginal intercourse. Or not. Because you know what they say: the longer you go crack the harder it is to go back. Or front. Or whatever.
And what assurances do you have that, if and when you do marry him, he's going to give the kind of penetrative sex you evolved for? If he sincerely believes—wrongly—that dick-in-vag always = baby, SISAW, does that mean he plans on sticking his dick in your vag on just the one or two occasions that he's trying to knock you up?
It's time to be assertive: birth control works, it's effective, and if you use multiple forms of birth control—an IUD, a condom, and pulling out (now considered a viable-ish birth control method)—and use them correctly, SISAW, then dick-in-vag ≠ baby.
2
no kidding!
Get some birth control and quit giving up the "prize" gurl.
(he's just playin' her - he's getting pussy from a gal that won't do anal so gets all his anal from her)
Get some birth control and quit giving up the "prize" gurl.
(he's just playin' her - he's getting pussy from a gal that won't do anal so gets all his anal from her)
3
Good advice, Dan, as far as it goes, but it's also apparent that he's one-a them thar Bible-thumpers. Which makes me add: DTMFA.
6
I don't know why you didn't go off on him about the whole "Jesus says sex before marriage is bad but Jesus only meant vaginal sex, buttsex doesn't count" which appears to have been his initial rationale. I'm pretty sure the religious prohibition about sex doesn't parse the definition of sex so closely.
Given his reason has changed, and his reason is also bullshit (and if he's so afraid, then bag it up and put her on the pill for good measure), I think he just doesn't like women's bits. Doesn't make him gay, but, if the glove fits . . .
Given his reason has changed, and his reason is also bullshit (and if he's so afraid, then bag it up and put her on the pill for good measure), I think he just doesn't like women's bits. Doesn't make him gay, but, if the glove fits . . .
7
So the kids really are into this whole saddlebacking thing, huh? I thought we were just poking fun at Rick Warren with that one.
And I'm with 5280. Want some action? Dump the Christian. Even if you did manage to get him to stick it in your vag pre-marriage, there's the distinct possibility that his religious guilt will sour the whole experience anyway. Surely she can find a guy who will fuck her every which way without all the religious hangups.
And I'm with 5280. Want some action? Dump the Christian. Even if you did manage to get him to stick it in your vag pre-marriage, there's the distinct possibility that his religious guilt will sour the whole experience anyway. Surely she can find a guy who will fuck her every which way without all the religious hangups.
8
The fact that he's so interested in anal penetration should be a warning sign to you SISAW. Seems you've realized this already but are trying to persuade yourself otherwise and that might end up harming you more.
12
DTMFA.
Seriously, you're Canadian, you have a right to sex, you're not a prude like us Americans.
@11 ftw.
Seriously, you're Canadian, you have a right to sex, you're not a prude like us Americans.
@11 ftw.
13
Your boyfriend is a dumbass.
Vag-sex is a no no, but butt-sex is okay with Jesus? That kind of logic is completely retarded. Are you seriously considering marrying a guy that is this deluded?
Vag-sex is a no no, but butt-sex is okay with Jesus? That kind of logic is completely retarded. Are you seriously considering marrying a guy that is this deluded?
14
Am I mistaken in thinking that anal sex is not an ideal means of birth control? A little spunk could sneak out of one hole and into another...
15
Wow, amazing statistics. "Typical use of withdrawal leads to pregnancy 18 percent of the time, they write; for typical use of condoms 17 percent of the time." I wonder if typical condom use includes occasionally not using a condom at all and going for withdrawal, cuz that's what people who typically use condoms sometimes do. Or using a condom instead of withdrawal, i.e. barebacking and then slipping on a condom right before ejaculation, because that's what people do too. Just how difficult is it to put on a condom right after your dick gets hard? It sounds like it's something complicated when you call it "perfect use", but cmon. Oh, and does saddlebacking mean unprotected anal sex? Cuz if so, you can get pregnant big time, girl. And if he thinks you have to have vaginal intercourse to get pregnant, he will give you a hard time for "cheating".
16
@ 14, it could and it does! Bacteria from your digestive tract sneak into the vagina all the time, there is no way to prevent it because the two holes are so close to each other. So if bacteria can do it, why wouldn't some mobile little swimmers.
17
wtf dump his ass, you've only been able to stand this because it's long-distance
LOSE THE LOSER and grow a pair, stand up for what you want
LOSE THE LOSER and grow a pair, stand up for what you want
21
She said he didn't want to do vag sex because he was afraid she'd get pregnant, not because it's a no-no with J.H.C. (whereas butt sex is okey-dokey).
Still stupid, but only uneducated-and-naive-stupid rather than fundamentalist-christian-brainwashing-stupid.
Still stupid, but only uneducated-and-naive-stupid rather than fundamentalist-christian-brainwashing-stupid.
24
DTMFA, for sure. You (we all) deserve to live and enjoy life to its fullest. That includes sexual satisfaction.
I will note, however, that in my experience vaginal sex actually feels "tighter" than anal. But don't give this guy the pleasure of finding out.
I will note, however, that in my experience vaginal sex actually feels "tighter" than anal. But don't give this guy the pleasure of finding out.
25
@21: read the letter more closely. He was originally opposed because of his commitment to JC (who cries when men insert their schlongs into vag, but not anus, apparently), and there is no indication that predilection has waned.
DTMFA, without a doubt.
DTMFA, without a doubt.
26
It happened in that order for me, too. I am now very happily married (not to him), and the ex isn't gay. We were just misguided Christian idiots.
27
Here's another DTMFA vote. Only I really want to deliver the message with more force and urgency. You're wasting precious time and energy on this dickhead. Move on.
28
As a Christian, I'd like to point out that your boyfriend's views on sex are, frankly, retarded. DTMFA. If he wants to save himself he can go find a nice frigid girlfriend, or an equally closeted boy.
29
All it takes is one little drip to slide down the bum to the vag and it still equals baby.
Birth control is more effective.
DUMP the loser who doesn't care about your needs.
Birth control is more effective.
DUMP the loser who doesn't care about your needs.
30
@Dan -
In the NYTimes article you linked to, it said:
"More speculatively, if more people realized that correct and consistent use of withdrawal substantially reduced the risk of pregnancy, they might use it more effectively.”
What is the most effective way to do this, if there is a less effective way? Are they just saying, "Don't actually make a deposit" but is there more to it?
In the NYTimes article you linked to, it said:
"More speculatively, if more people realized that correct and consistent use of withdrawal substantially reduced the risk of pregnancy, they might use it more effectively.”
What is the most effective way to do this, if there is a less effective way? Are they just saying, "Don't actually make a deposit" but is there more to it?
31
It's surprising that more people don't use natural birth control.
Any woman can tell when she's ovulating if she's willing to log her temperature every morning and monitor her vag juices. Seriously, it's not much harder than taking a pill, it's effective, it doesn't fuck with your hormones, and no condoms. The only drawback is that you have to avoid unprotected sex when your woman is ovulating, which is also when she's at her horniest and wettest.
Any woman can tell when she's ovulating if she's willing to log her temperature every morning and monitor her vag juices. Seriously, it's not much harder than taking a pill, it's effective, it doesn't fuck with your hormones, and no condoms. The only drawback is that you have to avoid unprotected sex when your woman is ovulating, which is also when she's at her horniest and wettest.
33
Just cheat on him.
If you could call it cheating. It's like driving your older brother's Camaro while he's in Iraq. He's not using it and if he comes home he'll be glad to know it wasn't getting rusty.
If you could call it cheating. It's like driving your older brother's Camaro while he's in Iraq. He's not using it and if he comes home he'll be glad to know it wasn't getting rusty.
34
As another Christian, allow me to say that fundamentalists like the BF here have no business marrying non-fundamentalists (let alone non-Christians). It will only lead to misery. (Hey, it's even in the Bible!)
35
Is the world going to end because I'm suddenly in agreement with Lovechild? Hmmm
Anyway, I'd take a long hard look at your boyfriend before continuing your relationship. Mind you, he might not be gay, but how is he with sex generally? Does he touch you, breasts etc.? Does he go down on you? Note that if he doesn't go down on you and wants you on your knees for penetration exclusively, I'd severely up the homoprobability.
But you're young, you're long distance and clearly you have very different visions about sex. Do you really see him being GGG for 50 years or more? If he's a fundie about marriage, what are his expectations about what a wife "should be"?
If he's a fundie and you're not, I forsee a lot of angst. If you marry him and he's a fundie, he's going to want you pregnant pretty soon, and he may not even give a lot of vag-sex if he's against contraception. Be sure you want this, because in 10 years time with two young children is a very bad time to realize you made an awful mistake.
Anyway, I'd take a long hard look at your boyfriend before continuing your relationship. Mind you, he might not be gay, but how is he with sex generally? Does he touch you, breasts etc.? Does he go down on you? Note that if he doesn't go down on you and wants you on your knees for penetration exclusively, I'd severely up the homoprobability.
But you're young, you're long distance and clearly you have very different visions about sex. Do you really see him being GGG for 50 years or more? If he's a fundie about marriage, what are his expectations about what a wife "should be"?
If he's a fundie and you're not, I forsee a lot of angst. If you marry him and he's a fundie, he's going to want you pregnant pretty soon, and he may not even give a lot of vag-sex if he's against contraception. Be sure you want this, because in 10 years time with two young children is a very bad time to realize you made an awful mistake.
36
@31
no, not it isn't.
rhythm methods are good for HAVING babies, not preventing them.
I'm catholic, I know these things (I have about thirty cousins from this method)
no, not it isn't.
rhythm methods are good for HAVING babies, not preventing them.
I'm catholic, I know these things (I have about thirty cousins from this method)
37
@ 31, Even women with regular periods have the occasional unpredicted ovulation at an unexpected time, and as people should know but regrettably often don't, sperm can stay in the vagina for 7 days after intercourse and fertilize the egg should ovulation happen in that time window. So a woman wakes up one morning, takes her temp and goes "shit, I'm ovulating, shame about all that unprotected sex I had in the last 7 days". That's your idea of effective birth control? Then your idea of effective birth control and my idea of complete mental breakdown match.
38
@31 did you know that sperm can live several days?
Pull-out is seriously better according to research. I'd say its natural and probably has a longer history then the rhythm method, but I guess its an unnatural perversion according to the old testament, just like eating shrimp.
Or just be sensible and use a condom.
Pull-out is seriously better according to research. I'd say its natural and probably has a longer history then the rhythm method, but I guess its an unnatural perversion according to the old testament, just like eating shrimp.
Or just be sensible and use a condom.
39
My ex liked anal from time to time. Once he told me that a butt is tighter, but a pussy is alive.
40
"Was it werid that his first sex experience was anal sex?"
No, not werid or weird. Although oral would be more common for the first time.
His paranoia about making babies is understandable, if somewhat misguided. The next time you're in the same city, a visit to a planned parenthood together to talk about birth control options and their effectiveness could help him feel less paranoid.
No, not werid or weird. Although oral would be more common for the first time.
His paranoia about making babies is understandable, if somewhat misguided. The next time you're in the same city, a visit to a planned parenthood together to talk about birth control options and their effectiveness could help him feel less paranoid.
41
@31 There's an app for that. I have a program on my G1, called "My Days", and it calculates when ovulation occurs based on your periods. You can also keep track of when you had sex, took a pill, etc. I was always in tune with what my uterus was doing before I got this app, but now it's just easier.
@36 Rhythm method can also be used to prevent pregnancies. Some of my friends used it effectively, but also some of them used natural herbs in addition (wild yam, wild carrot seeds)
@36 Rhythm method can also be used to prevent pregnancies. Some of my friends used it effectively, but also some of them used natural herbs in addition (wild yam, wild carrot seeds)
42
@41, I hope you are in a situation where getting pregnant wouldn't be a problem. Sometimes ovulation happens at a crazy time, like for example during your period. Your app can't predict that. And yes, it happens to women with regular periods too. Even machines do crazy things sometimes, so why wouldn't our bodies.
43
@31- there's a point I always drive home to young women- your horniest often coincides with ovulation, so _be_careful_.
When you want it most, use the best protection and look for a pattern. It can be your body's way of saying "I'M READY TO GET PREGNANT! NOW! LET'S HAVE SEX! SEX! SEX! NOW!"
At least, my body screams it incessantly and irritatingly. Others' bodies may be slightly more subtle. =) Still, point remains the same.
When you want it most, use the best protection and look for a pattern. It can be your body's way of saying "I'M READY TO GET PREGNANT! NOW! LET'S HAVE SEX! SEX! SEX! NOW!"
At least, my body screams it incessantly and irritatingly. Others' bodies may be slightly more subtle. =) Still, point remains the same.
44
SISAW, I agree with everyone else. Either get this guy to give you a straight answer (pun intended) or DTFMA. You've dated for two years, respecting his wishes, letting him call all the shots, and the best he can do now is "Well, anal might be OK"?
HE'S been getting everything HE wants while you're being way too nice (not "open"). If he can fuck your ass, he can fuck your vag with a condom.
HE'S been getting everything HE wants while you're being way too nice (not "open"). If he can fuck your ass, he can fuck your vag with a condom.
45
Oh look, Dingo is jumping all over Loveschild without good reason again!
@8 Loveschild said that the bf's interest in anal "should be a warning sign". She did not specify what it warned of. @22 you read the homo implication into it. Loveschild could just as easily have been warning that the bf doesn't like SISAW's bits in particular, or that the bf was abducted and probed by aliens, or that he demonstrates a tragic misunderstanding of the bible's intentions regarding sex.
If you're going to ridicule Loveschild for the things she says or actually implies, fine. But you just look mean when you ridicule her for words that YOU put into her mouth just because she's Loveschild.
@8 Loveschild said that the bf's interest in anal "should be a warning sign". She did not specify what it warned of. @22 you read the homo implication into it. Loveschild could just as easily have been warning that the bf doesn't like SISAW's bits in particular, or that the bf was abducted and probed by aliens, or that he demonstrates a tragic misunderstanding of the bible's intentions regarding sex.
If you're going to ridicule Loveschild for the things she says or actually implies, fine. But you just look mean when you ridicule her for words that YOU put into her mouth just because she's Loveschild.
46
#31 My first child was conceived from unprotected sex 8 days before ovulation (when my period was still just finishing up). Really, the only "safe-ish" time to have sex is after ovulation, assuming a second egg doesn't pop. But the whole two weeks from your period to ovulation is prime baby-creating time. Those sperm like to be all up in there ahead of time, ready to nail that egg as soon as it's released.
48
I think this guy sounds like a jerk. He is basically saying "I guess I don't mind if I get my rocks off, but I am not so interested in helping you get yours off."
Now, if he eats a lot of pussy, I would be more inclined to give him a pass as being just a religious nutcase. But seriously, if that guy is not eating your pussy every time you get naked with him, he is an asshole and needs to change his ways or get the fuck out.
Now, if he eats a lot of pussy, I would be more inclined to give him a pass as being just a religious nutcase. But seriously, if that guy is not eating your pussy every time you get naked with him, he is an asshole and needs to change his ways or get the fuck out.
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